 of the town of Berlin Development Review Board. We have three applications tonight. I think before we do anything, I intend to swear in witnesses that are going to give testimony before this board tonight in only one of the three applications. If you're going to give testimony tonight, please raise your right hands. This way of tele-truth, nothing but truth. We'll ask before this board tonight on the penalties of perjury. I do. Thank you. So our first application is by Bradley Town for our preliminary and final plan review of a minor two-lot whether it's a subdivision. Brad, could you explain to the board what you're doing in our Gibson overview, and then we'll go through the criteria specifically? Well, basically what I'm trying to do is downsize a little bit. I've got too much acreage. Taxes are killing me, as you all know. And this parcel, though it's connected to the farm, will never be productive, even as pasture. And I'm just looking to, we have a buyer for it that wants to build a house on it, but more than willing to let them. Okay, we have a plat and a plan and we actually have all the full-size stuff there. That would be good, I'm a little confused. You may want to look at that, Josh. Well, so is this, this is the full parcel now, is that? I mean, what is this? That is the full parcel. And what are you subdividing off? Are you subdividing off this piece? That little piece just sticks out on the very bottom edge. This one? Yep. And John's croak, John's croak. It's just a very, oh, here we go. Okay. That's the left. Yeah, you're right. Oh, so this piece right here, is this piece on here? No. No, it's- There's a little piece down here. Oh, down here. Yeah, it's just a little piece down here. Oh, so where is, okay, I guess, where does the piece end? The sub, the five acres? Yeah, so where, is it just this little thing here? And not even the full amount of it. Wow, okay. You have a separate flap, which is- I know, but it, yeah, it was sort of confusing to me how much- Yeah, they don't show where it begins or ends, but that piece has been surveyed. So this is just that area here? It's just that little area, yeah. Okay. Well, that's helpful to know. Is anyone here, actually me and this party in this application tonight? So, what I'm going to do is go through the subdivision standards. This is a fairly straightforward application, but we just need to top the eyes. They're either applicable, not applicable, they're applicable outside of you, you know? And this has to do with capacity of community facilities and utilities. Okay, John, I'm on page 363, subdivision standards. And basically, it speaks to impacts on local schools, police fire protection, road infrastructure, maintenance, parks and recreational facilities, water supply, so forth. You know, it seemed to me it would have no impact on these. I think we have from Tom left us some notes that basically the no comments were received by the police, nor the fire, nor the road foreman. So, but it's a two-lock subdivision, I can't imagine there's any significant impact on any of those. There's only one new structure. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to work through these, not something we want to explore these things for. Suitability of the land, must be suitable for use without endangering public health. I'm not going to read through all this and it's not in the floodplain, is that correct? That's correct, it's above it. Okay. As far as suitability, that I had this property for sale once before, the agreement I had with the fellow was I would subdivide it and I wasn't going to take and spend a lot of money on it. And he had a survey, he had it perked. Okay, nice. And then he started saying I was going to pay for some other stuff and I said no, I wasn't. So now we're here with a different buyer. So it does perk then? Yes. The design and configuration of parcel boundaries, I don't think that's applicable, it speaks to multiple lots and laying them out and so forth. No foreseeable difficulties obtaining zoning permits, it just, have you talked about access drive? There is one there now that the kids, when they were younger, they had their four wheelers, their four by fours, they've been going in and out of that parcel. It's basically right across from the access point there that Trey is talking about using to this parcel is right across from Mrs. White's house. And for the most part, it will meet the site picture for the traffic. So obviously before the person advises to get some development, he's going to have to get an access permit. Yeah, a real permit. The nice thing about it is it's on the downhill side of the road and there's no coal burner ditches. A lot of dimensions. I don't think it's applicable. Yeah, just that it's the right size, right? And it is, so I mean the five acre. Yeah, it meets the minimum stamps as long as it does. It does meet the minimum stamps. It's certainly got plenty of fringe and it's more than large enough. Yeah. Of course, this is a 40,000 square foot. Yeah. And we're talking about five acres. Yeah. Building envelopes, I can't remember if your survey showed the building. He did not show the building envelope. So building envelope, basically the survey's plat should show a building envelope. And I think when I asked for your survey because it's a requirement to add that to the drawing. Okay. And building envelope is that portion that can be used, which basically is the setbacks. Yeah. And so he would show the setback, front yard setback, where a parent setback and the, which is also the rear lot setback and then the side yard setbacks. I thought that was included with the one I gave to him. Maybe, it's not included on this. Yeah, that was the original. Yeah. So I remember he gave me a survey. They had written lines on it, but he considered the setbacks. I thought I brought that in. I've not seen it. If we have it, then that's fine, but we don't have it, whatever we need to have it. Basically, it says that this is the boundaries within which you can put a house. I mean, unless there's a specific spot already selected, sometimes people just put them, but if there's not, it's, you know. They put those, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it'll be just raw land. I don't know how the owner's gonna take and try to put the house there. Right. But this is sort of the buildable land that they've shown and then they have the house within that. You would exclude flood plain, you would exclude setbacks. Yeah. Okay. Butland, you would explore. Talk to Glenn tomorrow and see what he's got. Roads, no roads were anticipated, but we talked about roads earlier. You do anticipated access, and you will have to get an access. The road access will need to meet the E71 standard, and you will need a permit, obviously, if that's like work, as you may know. Yeah. Well, again, the road will have to be, because I'm not sure where the owner's gonna wanna put it. Yeah. It's such times the owner wants to get a permit from. Yeah. There's only a administrator for the house. Yeah. So, we're not getting anything about the house, it's just about subdivision. And I don't think any else is applicable in that, roads. Pedestrian and bicycle facilities, I don't think that's necessarily applicable. Water and wastewater, and you will need on-site wastewater permits. You don't have them yet, or do you? Again, it'll be up to Trey. Yeah, back, back, back, back, back. In other words, but you would envision on-site water going, say, wastewater. Yeah, I mean, there's certainly not plenty of near there. Yeah. To provide water for fire prevention. That's something that's really in large subliminal. Okay. Yeah, that's a large subliminal that's not applicable. There is a book there. Yeah. Public and private utilities, not applicable. Landscaping, not applicable. Rowsing control. That would be up to whoever develops it. Yeah, whoever develops it. These meet the minimum standards. Stormwater management, again, we're not talking about much of a furvious area, so it's not really applicable. And destruction of maintenance and necessary improvements, there are none. Monuments and corn markers, and obviously that's going to have to be, you know, staked out when she's up to either. Yeah. Since you're using two brooks of center lines, that's always interesting, at the road. Yeah. Character of the area. It's consistent with the character of the area. There are a number of residential structures right along there, yeah, across the road and so forth. And soil preservation. Now we're getting applicable. That's something. So we've gone through the criteria. Are there any questions by board members? My only question is, does this new layout, would it require that we put conditions on the subdivision for the stormwater or the erosion control and all that when it's developed? Or no. I mean, I guess we can talk about that after, but. I, if we thought that we're necessary. Because they don't come with the zoning application when they get the house permit. So I'm just wondering if that's something that we have to put, they don't. Well, they do. They do they. I wouldn't think so. The zoning permit would identify any, if there were, for instance, if there were a furvious area significant amount, I would think that would be in the zoning permit. Okay, well, just a thought. Cause we didn't used to have all this in the, I mean, the only thing, you know, and it is percable, you know, I mean that we just want to make sure that it is buildable, that it's a viable lot. So, but it can have wastewater. And I assume there's water. I mean, that five acres should produce something. You know, you've got lead across the road. Actually, the lawn that, the points may be tamed across the road belongs to me. And there's a spring up in there too. Okay. So there's water in the ledges. Okay. And the ledges are right there next to this lot on the other side of the road. My sense is, whoever developed it better do it real well. Yeah. So, do you have anything you want to add? Just taking, I'll talk to Glenn tomorrow and see if we can get up. That's the only answer you're missing is, and I didn't reread this again, I'm pretty certain that their requirements are that the building interval, the identified, which should take them all of half hour, just to set the action, work with significant public. That, that, that, Jones Brook has never been delineated if the floodplain has it. I don't think so. The, when you get, once you get down past this point, and you get next to the hayfield that you have on your colored map, the brook whitens out and that floods all the time. But that's just the way it is. Always has. And then, the brook that's where it runs beside us. When you get down to your house, you're in a floodplain. Yeah. Right. Well, that's when we put five feet of gravel into the house. Yes. And the solid of the old house would always be wet in the spring. So, yeah, I mean, this is actually quite a distance away. I mean, there's, looks like up by the road. I mean, that's quite a distance away from the brook. So I don't think that's it. That's a pretty, it's a long, narrow piece. Yeah. You know, there's probably, there's probably three, toward the whitest part. I think it's around 300 feet or so. Maybe a little bit more. About 250. 250. Well, on one end, it's 250. There's a wider part. That's right for me. So you're probably right. But I mean, on the narrow end, it's, I mean, from the road, you throw a stone into the brook. Oh, really? Okay. So it's not very wide. Yeah. I can't do that. Well, it's all straight down. Yeah. We have been able to do it one time, but... Now, the upper end there, where the little stream comes down out of the woods, that is very narrow. Mm-hmm. In fact, I think when you get the plow, you'll probably see that there's only like five feet that you put between the brook and the road right away. Oh, okay. But the first, from that end, toward the house, the first probably three, four yards is just too steep and too narrow to use. I'm not sure I want you selling property for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to point beyond this. I took in, I took in show of Trey, exactly what he was looking at. I just told him I was getting rid of some land. Okay, does anybody have anything else? No. I would entertain a motion. No. I'm going to move to the cloister. It's been made to close the hearing. Oh, I'll do a part of the discussion. I have a second motion. Second. I should point out we do have comments from the zoning administrator. Oh, yeah. I'd like to ask they'd be adding to the record. And basically, it had to do with the nobilities apparently being proposed. There's no safety design and no comments were received by the Chief of Police and I was kind of mixed earlier. So I'm going to add that into the record. Yeah. Motion's second. Favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? And the hearing is closed. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have application with David Elizabeth Cullen. Oh, she's sick. Okay. Yeah. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. And you are? We're acting on Craig Chase and Chase and Chase Lansbury as a separate designer. It's all for the start of motion. So you're doing more closely. By the way, have you signed in? Yeah. Okay. Everybody signed in the other way. Because our reporters, if there's not here, we'll be able to do things like recording. Yep. I'm Craig Chase. David, this is a large motion of you. I'm going to make it kind of the only thing that I'm going to ask for. Next, please. You're welcome. You're never about to use it. I did not use it at all. It's okay. Okay. So why don't you, if you were following the... Yep. Do I have actual applicants? Are you the applicant? Oh, there you go. So, would you give us an overview of the project, please? Sure. The doubt's currently on the four bedroom single family with residents lying on 3.45 acres of property at the intersection of Black Road and Crossdown Road. They wish to subdivide the property to create a new building lot, lot two on our plan, of 1.87 acres. They will retain 1.58 acres with your house. The property's in the RL 40 district. Both lots exceed the acreage requirements, road frontages, et cetera. We have put the building setback limits on the proposed building lot on the plan. The site has been protested and the septic design has been done and I have an application for them to sign as soon as we come field. There are any major issues here to submit for a wastewater permit. I'm sorry, you didn't get to... So you have not received it yet? We have not submitted the wastewater application. I have it literally here in a file to support them to sign and pending. There's no major issues tonight. Okay, I managed to change pages. I lost myself in some of the regulations. Go back here. Because I'd like to go through the criteria. I know you addressed some of the criteria. Sure. Yeah, we appreciate that always. But I guess before I do that, I wanna ask the board members, do you have any questions on the application before we begin with the criteria? I'd just like to add that it's an L-shaped lot and we're taking basically two pieces like this and making two rectangles. I guess I do have a question because I see there's sort of a little jog. Sure. And I was just wondering why there is the jog rather than straight rectangles. Yeah, we have, there's gonna be a mound system right on this corner. So initially we had the property line and a straight shot across there with an easement. The doubts preferred that we have the property line be there as opposed to an easement so that there's no issues. Okay. Okay. Do you have a question about board members? Yeah. I have one, but it's specific to a criteria so I'll wait till we get there. Okay. And the plan shows the well, the well is between the proposed house and the road to it. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. All right, thanks. So capacity of community facilities and utility. Oh, and again, as in the last case, we do have pre-filed testimony from Tom. And why don't I go through that first instead of last? Yeah, I almost forgot it last time. And Tom says the subdivision is in the rural 40 district, which we know and the lots would be, what the lot sizes are, which is also part of the application. This says the septic system has been sent to the state of Vermont, but it has not. And Tom and I discussed that last week so it does not. And it says written comments, we're received from the chief of police in the fire and they were attached. And we have the comments from the chief of police saying there's no adverse impact on the road in. And we also have the comments from the chief of fire chief. And his comments are to inquire that a driveway be a minimum of 12 feet wide. I forget what yours is, but 20 feet. Is it what you drive it with? Not sure, he wants to. Well, anyway, that's what he said. Approximately 16 feet. Okay. I'm sure it's more than 12. Yeah, that's why. Okay, so those are his comments. And so going through the criteria, capacity of community facilities, and this again speaks to fire protection police and we've heard from them. Anything else with regard to capacity of communities? So two lots up the region. So impact on schools should be minimal. And they probably love more kids. Yeah. In the current environment, that the issue of being overburdening the school, it could be just the reverse. We hope you'll have lots of children. You should give bonus points, right? Yes. The suitability of the land must be suitable for use without a day of public health, safety, adverse impact on the environment, and not subject to flooding. We don't take the subject to flooding. No, definitely not. And certainly that is why we've done test pits and a lot of not to ensure that we can, and the state engineer was there on site for the test pits. Now that's not too steep, is it? It's not gonna pretty good grade on it. It's a fair grade. Yeah, we're at close to 20% where the septic's going, which is then cut off. Yeah. Oh yeah, I've seen that. Certainly the dry boy has proposed coming in, comes in flat for ways, and then it'll slab the hillside a little bit going towards the outside. You didn't show us a profile, I don't know what we did you know. I'll ask you about that later when we get that criteria. Design and configuration of partial boundaries. You address that, but I'm not sure that's really an issue in this case. Again, we just talked about one lot separation. One new law. There are a lot of other sub criteria which may have nothing to do with entirely yet. I've only got one question related. Oh no, that's the next one, sorry. I'll go right to the next one, a lot dimensions. Yeah, no, then that's big category. Okay, well I, yeah. Yeah, I mean it looks that this looks good. Okay, so then it's a piece of the building envelopes, a lot dimensions and you meet all the minimum standards and you've shown us the envelope. 3505, design and layout of necessary improvements. And the only one I think that's applicable here is the access road. And that's where I do have a question. What's the grade gonna be on the access road? I, my assumption would be that it needs to be 12% or less for oil trucks, et cetera. Well, actually it needs to be B71 standards. We're gonna use the first 20 feet off the road. 20 feet, actually it dips down a little bit at a 4% grade and before rising back up. So that water from the driveway doesn't rush out onto the road. As this lot lies, you could only go away from the road with it. You'd have to put a trans-mounted fill to get it to drain back to the tower. Right, but what we wanna be sure is that the first four feet needs to be 21. The first 20 feet needs to be B71 standards. So we don't have to have racing up into the road like the next three lots. So that's the only thing we remind you of that. I couldn't remember how much the drop was there. I know further along the road drops off pretty, the bank gets steeped fast. It definitely does and this curb cut location was chosen for that reason, that it is, you literally could drive off the road right now, with a two-wheel drive vehicle. The time somebody did that. You could make the corner. Did you live near them? What's that? Were you living at the house at the time that somebody drove off the road and through your drive, through your yard, came back on the road again? No. Which time? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sit up. The poor trees there have taken such a beating already here. But they still grow. They're winning. The cars are not winning. Anything further on roads? Roads. Not on roads. Okay. If I go back to one round, the building envelope, just according to the rules here, says for lots more than two acres in size, the building envelope generally must be limited to not more than one acre or one principal bill will be located on an individual block. So this is less than two acres? Yeah, each one is less than two. Each one is less than two. But you should have bought that one in the last one. Yeah, right. Let's go call Brad back. Good point. Good point. One application too late. I'll tell Tom to make sure Brad gets that message. Because you just can't do that. Handle over five acres. Right, right. Okay. Okay, I'll point that out. Thank you. We always learn new things by reading these new evaluations. So moving forward instead of backwards, bicycle pedestrian facilities, not really applicable in this case. The, although I've seen more and more bicycle views on the cross-down road. Oh yeah. Handle pedestrians. I have not seen bicycles. Really? Only when the road's closed in the springtime is there lots of people. Oh, there you go. She was pretty heavy by pedestrians and bicycles. Yeah. I always have mixed thoughts about the ones coming up here on our hill. Water and wastewater facilities. You addressed that earlier. You have a design. I have a question, I guess. When we need to review the ordinance, you do have the well in the setback. And I can't remember. I thought that was okay, but I thought it excluded certain things. I mean, the bylaws speak to structures. Any structure within a, can't be built within a setback. And there's no question in my mind about a well as a structure. Unless it's exempted. Do you remember? I thought so. I'm trying to think about utilities. We had a discussion about that before. Involving the chamber of commerce, didn't we? We did. That had to do with on the ground, so we discussed that. Right, but that was still a structure. Yeah, and it was exempted. Utilities, public utilities were exempted, but this is not a public utility, it's a private utility. I meant to read that before I came up, and I forgot, so I think you will. Do we have to be there? Oh, I'll just scratch my head if it doesn't. If it doesn't, if it can't be there, I'm gonna have to, we're gonna have to have a meeting. And we'll probably have to have some sort of easement on to their existing law. Well, let us review that. Again, we're new to the bylaws, and I think the old bylaws went out on an issue. Under these, I don't know that. It's the first time I've ever come up, I mean. Yeah, it's the first time I've seen that, so, and I realized why you've done it. Why was, why did you do it? Just kind of. Because that's the best place for the bylaws. Yeah, if you can't put them back a lot, because like this odd shaped thing around here, it's all the wastewater system isolation. Yeah. It's the area that's too close to the proposed mound. Always. To have well-drilled land, so right. What would it be? Good question. And there's obviously a couple of ice, wastewater systems across the road, you have not identified them on this drop mound. They appear to be based on looking at satellite imagery that's living right here, so. Yeah. And we will be setting certified mailings to the applying landowners. You have not sent that yet? No. Okay, we'll do that to the application of state. Correct. So, as you know, any permit we issue will be conditioned upon the receiving crew from the state, which is conditioned upon these lands. Which, if I can sidetrack this for a second, I'm coming in next two weeks with a project where we're just proposing lots. How will that play out? Do we need building envelopes on, when we aren't proposing? We aren't the ones who need to be building envelopes on the lots, okay. How many lots? That'd be four total, one of those currently developed. And they're all five acre lots. Five acre plus. So the rule that he was reading was, well, we don't want a five acre. But, no, I mean, we're basically doing a subdivision for a single family unit. It has to be able to accommodate that. I mean, we do subdivisions without a unit. It still needs to get a separate permit for the building. But that'll be such a time as the building decides to write the structure. Any other questions or concerns about water and wastewater facilities? So we will look that up. If there's some problem, I'll have Tom do it for you. Firefighting facilities, not really applicable. We'll just talk about single family residents. Public and private utilities. And again, we're not talking about private utilities or public utilities, not applicable. Landscaping? 3505? My only question is it seems very wooded now, that lot. Are you gonna clear a cut? Leave as many trees as you can, or, I mean, Yeah, I mean, obviously it's hard to say because they're proposing to sell it to somebody that would be their lot to do that with. Certainly they, I don't believe you have plans to do that. So this house that's shown here is not necessarily the house that will be built if somebody else is gonna build it. This is just showing how it could be. The road, the driveway will be there. No. Not necessarily. No, not at that, the driveway will be there. Where you're showing it. It will be in that location, it won't be developed. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. That's not going anywhere. I think, again, we're locked into that position based on. Okay, so that will be like the location of the house and the driveway and the septic and the well. Oh, within that building up below. Yeah. Okay. Did you have some about landscaping? Well, I just asked about the trees because it's very wooded. The road is in control and under our bylaws, any construction that has to be at the minimum standards of 32 or nine of these regulations. Mind the lawn marker. That's applicable with some, that's part of the survey. No necessary improvements. So 305J is not applicable. 306, care to the area in the settlement pattern. I think this would kind of qualify as infill. It's between several similar type of lot residences on that particular section of the road. And I don't see Paul here, so he must not have a problem. I assume Paul was notified. So the preservation, our standards are stopped by and pronounced on him. So any conformance of regulations? The best of my knowledge is conformance to the other. The best of my knowledge is well, yeah. The only thing I'm worried about is that separate comment on the road. Yeah, I still haven't found that song. Well, let's get high and squarely so. Yeah, along those lines, somebody developing this lot will have to cross the road to a power pole before going underground with a power pole within the setback to be considered a structure. No, that's specifically the exact utility. So let's see, those water waste, water utilities, electric utilities, those are exempted from the setback requirement. We just didn't speak to, right? I have to reread what does before I start. I'd be curious to see if it does simply say municipal water utilities, or just water utilities. Yeah. I meant to reread that for a thing, but you're not allowed to answer it. So I'm not part of the chicken. Are there other questions to that? Yeah, that's representative. Oh, yeah. You've got some cells. Would you have anything for me to want to add? Okay, another hearing request of party status. Close the hearing. We have a motion to close the hearing. Second. The motion is made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? The motion is about to say aye. Aye. Opposed? Names? And the motion has to be opposed. Thank you. Our next applicant is Charles Parker. Mike Legenest from Legenest Construction and Charles Parker is here this evening to attend the meeting. Okay, and who will we give a testimony to yourself? Myself and maybe Charlie might have a few words to say. Charles, will you sworn in? I don't think I would sworn in more. Please raise your right hand. You swear to tell the truth. That's not the truth. I'm going to report to the board tonight when the penalties approach me. Sure. Yes. And does anyone else have any party status to this application? Hearing none. So, what did you tell me what's going on here? Is everybody familiar with 641 Comstock Road where this building is? Everybody familiar with that? You're probably familiar with the original building in the front. This is the old Cape. Yeah. This is where the work will be happening. Presently, there is one apartment upstairs in the Cape part of the building and there's four other commercial rentals there. So, what we're doing is we're converting it. One of the commercial rentals, we're turning into three. One two bedroom and two one bedroom apartments. So, we'll end up with three commercial offices. So, we're not expanding the footprint. We're not developing anything else strictly. So, it's the three new apartments. Three new apartments. Okay, the way the application went like, first I thought it was two new apartments. I thought it was two new apartments. Or a total of three. So, that's what I'm risking. Yes. So, it's three apartments on the first floor. Three apartments in there is one existing. And one on the second. And there's one on the second. Oh, okay. Okay, so. This application is a conditional use application. This is a light industrial district. This is received as a comment from Tom. And his comment is that the, they find it. It wasn't important, it wasn't gonna keep it. I've got it here, I think. Do you? I'm sorry, probably. Here it is, I've got it here. Yeah. I've got Tom's. Oh. Yeah, the only Tom advises us is, we're asking for a multifamily dwelling, which is an unlisted use in, as a conditional use or as a use in a light industrial district, which is something when you do that. We do also have comments from Tom on behalf of the water and wastewater. I presume you have these, which is the capacity to serve water and wastewater. We also have comments from the chief of police. Chief, yeah. Chief of fire chief. And his comments are requesting an interconnected smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in this area. Yeah, that's also a state requirement. Yeah, then he thought it was. We have received a permit on the project. Okay, you have received that permit. So I think the first issue, we're going to go through the conditional use criteria. Which are. Yeah, what page is this? Page. Oh, here we go. Page 352. 351. 351. Let's try the 321. And the applicant has addressed those, or his bludgeoness has. And we'll go through those in a moment. But I think first I want to go through the first thing, which is the conditional use. It is a conditional use in accordance with 205C of our file laws, which is page 22. The Development and Review Board grants conditional use approvals for unlisted use. It's an unlisted use. On determining that, in addition to other specific and general standards set forth in these regulations, the proposed use is of the same general character as those permitted or allowed. And will not be detrimental. That's A, B will not be detrimental to the other uses within the district. And then if we go directly to the district standards, like industrial, I guess I'm going to ask the applicant to address those issues. Why is this a similar use to permitted uses in the district? This is multi-family, multi-use family dwelling. Multi-family dwelling. And no dwellings are allowed in this district by use or by conditional use. Okay. And why are we changing? Yeah. Well, the biggest thing is because they're better at being able to rent the apartments out than they are, be able to lease out the commercial. Well, I understand that. I think more importantly, why should the DRB approve a residential multi-family, residential unit in the light district of the district? Well, I stated in the breakout as far as the impact of what we're doing is going to be a lot less than what the office complex was where Easter Seals was. Yeah, and we'll go through those in a minute. Okay. But more specifically, it's not a permitted use in this district. It's not a conditional use in this district. Even though they have the apartment upstairs. Yeah, well, I'm sorry. How did they get the apartment upstairs? Been there forever. Well, it used to be a home. Yeah. When we bought it, it was, we rented it as a home. In 1977, we rented it until 1982. And there was always an apartment upstairs. It's been there since we started. Did they back to when? We bought the place in 77. You say there was a residence there at that time? Oh, sure. It was a whole building, was a whole building residence? Well, we put on an addition. Oh, but the house was always, at that point, it was always lived in as a dwelling. It became an office in 81 or 82, the downstairs of that structure. And the upstairs has been rented pretty much continuously? Continuously. So you don't have a permit for that? I would say we've got a grandfather, I don't know if that's possible, but I mean, we've been there since before permits were necessary. My cousin's grandparents were there. Wow. So it's pretty existing, okay. Well, that was kind of my point. So what you're saying is it's been a residence that's used in the past? It still is. I mean, there's still somebody looking here. There's still residents upstairs now. Okay. The biggest problem is renting that property is the road. It's a mess and every spring we have complaints and we have a hard time renting it for business and they've finally moved out. These people have been there since 92 or 93 a long time when we were disappointed to see them leave, but the impact on the road is gonna be a lot less because there's 30 people going in and out of that place every day it was rented as an office space. So today, if it's approved, we'll be able to have only, we'll probably have three cars or maybe four, I suppose if there's two cars in one of the apartments, but it'll be a lot less impact. And we just can't find renters that wanna deal with that road in the springtime. And I begged this town to do something about it, but they've never been able to so I'm gonna run for it. I know, I know, but it's a fact, you know, and I've gotta pay taxes of $37,000 a year and somehow I gotta rent to be able to survive. So yeah, so your argument is that was a residential structure back in the 70s. It's always been the upstairs, it's always been used for residential purposes. And therefore it is a similar use to existing. This board will have to deliberate that. You know, there really is nothing in here that helps us in the new balance. Are there other residential dwellings or units in the vicinity in Newport? Just down, just the hall is at the end of the road, right? Right, but that's not like just, that's not like just- Yeah, that's at the bottom of the road. In the vicinity, in the same district. In the light industrial district, I'm not aware of any other residential. Are you? No, but no, I'm not. There used to be, but again, it's gone now. The other farm on the other side where the National Life is, or where the Wood Cross Book Shield is, but that's a long time ago. It's interesting you could have a home occupation as a permitted use in the light industrial district, but you can't have a home. Only if the home occupation is excessive, you read the bottom of that. Only if the light is, if the home occupation- What is an accessory used to a pre-existing? Pre-existing, so it has to be a pre-existing dwelling. Qualified. Same thing with the- You can't deny home occupation, can you anymore? Doesn't the state require you to allow it? I don't know. I don't think so. I see. So some of those uses that are residential in nature are only true, are only allowed for pre-existing. But you can have a hotel or a motel. True. We'll deliberate to separate people. We do need to decide that. That's a key issue. Do you have a boarding house? Well, if you consider a home of child care, if they have children and taking care of them. Again, that's only for pre-existing. I know. So yeah. Yeah, it's definitely all business related. So if we go through the criteria, which you addressed, I'll run through them quickly and you can speak to them as we go here. I'm on page 351. And really, capacity of community facilities and utilities would speak to local schools to please fire. And I'd be able to go ahead and repeat what you said or paraphrase what you said. The one by you will have a minimal impact on the local schools. Number two, please fire protection, able to serve their current and available to the existing structural monthly altar. Transportation, infrastructure and maintenance will not be impacted. Parks and Recreation Facilities will not be impacted. Water and sewer disposal and strong water system infrastructure will be. Did you get any feedback from the fire chief or the road foreman or anything like that? Yes, we did. We did. Yes, we got a letter from them. Yeah, I don't have that. You don't have that? I don't have that. I don't have it in this file. I don't have it in this file. I don't have it in this file. We only want to have the fire chief, which I read that earlier about the smoke that actually went out of the code. Yeah, the carbon went outside. The question is if I remember the board on capacity for many facilities, which seems to qualify. So it meets the standards. It's on town, water and sewer? Yes, yes. And sewer allocation and water allocation have a grant that's left. Which is going to be left. Yeah, and that's, yeah. The impact's less than I think you make that point throughout. Traffic? The proposed change will reduce traffic drawn by limiting of the office traffic. All the traffic concerns are not applicable to this request. Character of the area, the character of the building area will be unaffected by this change. That for resources protection, not applicable as... No, let me just go back to you. You're going a little faster. No, it's all right. We like haste when we're coming home. I guess that's one of the things that I was looking at. And this is more residential use in an area that's not residential. And frequently there are conflicts with residential uses in areas where we have airports. We read about that all the time. But this would seem to be minimal. Any big questions, Brian? Aren't just... So you said in traffic lesson, how much traffic was there with the office? I mean, were there a lot of employees or something? Well, there was up to, well, you had employees plus customers, correct? People, business people. Patients left. Patients, clients, I would call them. Yeah, the users, yeah. But they also used it as a meeting place for the whole group. And there was many times when the parking was... They were up and down the road because there wasn't enough space. Just characteristically, office space has a greater demand for traffic than residential. And as far as the location of the zillion, it makes a perfect place for an apartment cost. And I said, the end of the industry is quiet. Everybody goes home at five o'clock at night. Except UPS. Okay, natural resource protection. Again, there's nothing proposed structurally here, so not applicable. Natural resource, no. Energy conservation. Did you address that? Yes, no work associated with this request. We'll complete solar access by adjacent properties. Conformance with regulations. And again, you're not changing anything with regard to the structure. No, all we're doing is by state. At state level, we have to put some means of regressing those out of the bedrooms. That's all we need. We'll just be changing out a few when it was done. But that's a state requirement. So the only question of conformance with regulations is affirmative use of the district. Or is it a conditional use, as it would be allowed, but there will be not a list of one. Section 3308 is Conditions of Approval. And that's very... Any conditions that might be deemed necessary by the board to find out the result of our findings. So here we have questions on this application that we have not covered. It also has to meet all the site plan review criteria. But again, since there are no changes of the site plan, and there are less demands of parking, and access, and I don't see that that's going to be an issue of what's going through the site plan. No, unless there's something about use, right? I'm just looking to do the site plan. I guess it's not really... Again, there are not changes in the site. Yeah. There are three lights there now, right? Yes. I mean, you're not changing anything. You're not changing anything. You're not changing parking. It's just courtesy lights and lights out in the parking lot. Just carving out three apartments and what was previously allowed. That's it. One's a one-bedroom and two's a two-bedroom. Well, it's the other studio. One one-bedroom and then there's one two-bedroom. Okay. Are there questions by the board members? Josh? Additional comments by the applicant? I would just pray that you approve it because it's the best alternative for our future ability to rent the property. And obviously there will be little or no impact, additional impact? There's actually less. Well, that's what I'm saying. To be honest, that building is... The experience we've had with the dwelling upstairs has been phenomenal. I mean, we've never had a problem. We've been rented consistently. Maybe we've lost somebody for a month, but it's immediately rented again. And there's never been a peep out of anybody. I mean, in fact, we consider it safety for the area in the evening because there's somebody there. But obviously it's not maybe your consideration, but for us, it's always been a good experience to have the dwelling upstairs. It's never been negative. I'm not familiar with the structure. I guess I'm not familiar with the history of the building. So that was lagging a little bit here. It goes back to 1844, actually. It comes out because it's a little better. Is that right? Yeah. Good to know. You didn't know? No. You didn't know them. Your face, cousin? Yeah. Okay. How's she doing? She's doing good. She had a residence right there, very close. Oh, you're talking about K-Bar. Yeah. No, K-Bar is not my cousin. K-Noiseal is my cousin. Oh, K-Noiseal. K-Bar was my step-their aunt. Okay, okay. Yeah. So Gwen was my K, the K I was referring to was her mother. So that's K-Bar's sister. Of course. There was no change in the zoning district, was there? I mean, this property has been in the light industrial district for a while now. I can't speak to whether the previous light industrial allowed residence or not. It may have. I don't know how. When did that zoning ordinance? Just recently. We just changed that. Yeah. Oh, just recently. The new ordinance, yeah. March. Just the last 10 minutes. And I know we debated, I'm on the planning question, we debated residence or use in the industrial areas and yeah, anyway. I don't wish I'd done it last year. I don't remember what you said last year or so. Yeah, I mean it could be the same, so don't kick yourself. Oh, I've done a lot of that over the years. Okay, there's no further testimony. The motion is closed here. Second. I'm sure we'll make it in a second there. They close this hearing. Is there any discussion on motion? Hearing none, all those in favor of that motion? Please look there and say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? And we have plans this year. Anyone who doesn't know of your decision? Probably a couple weeks, maybe three weeks. Our recording secretary's not here tonight, so she's going to have to take it off the tapes in the video, which is very good. It's very helpful. So, but she has other projects too. Right, I'm sure. So, in fact, that's where she is tonight. Okay. Okay, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. David, did you have something? No. Okay. Just because I called you? I didn't mean to call you. Wait, you called him and asked him to come here? No, I was on my cars. I said, call. Oh, no. I said, call Gunther Wernick. Give me, give me. That's so good. Oh, that's funny. But that is the only one I said, call Gunther Wernick. I saw your name. I couldn't get you. So much for my pronunciation. You need to review the applications, the findings. Okay. You're very good at getting rid of it right away. The only thing we have on our agenda tonight, aside from the room procession where we kick everybody out, is the minutes of our last meeting, which are misplaced. But I remember reviewing them. I remember. I had no issues with the minutes of the last meeting. I'm doing. And so, could you send me a motion to approve those minutes? I'm doing. Okay, I moved to approve the minutes. So was it September 17th or something like that? Yeah. Second. Motion made in the second. If you approve those minutes of the last meeting. Discussion? All those in favor? Aye. You see who I have to see? Aye. Aye. I have to see. You can actually approve. You're going to vote. Wasn't that the hearing that I was on? Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. You were the applicant. Oh, yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, okay, you do have to understand. Yes. I forgot what we just were talking about. That seemed longer ago. It does, it does. Yeah, good point. So, I think we should probably go into the deliverer's session. Motion to go into the deliverer's session at 8.03 p.m. Second? Second. Second. Second. Second. Second. Motion to remain second. We'll move to the session. All those in favor of that motion? Motion to move to the right. Aye. Aye. Aye.