 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my one and only co-host Tom. What's going on brother? How you doing? Hello friends Tom good to have you on the show as always joining us as well The man the myth the legend the Warhammer hero my personal idol in life Someone I hope to be more like every day Dug what's going on brother? How you doing? That's a lot to live up to I'm doing well. Thank you Doug you should be the guy who has the cure for cancer We're gonna be diving into the new fire slayers tome tonight, that's right. We're gonna talk about Naked ginger dwarves. That's what we're gonna do spend hours doing that If there was truly one army in this entire game that I did not care about at all It would be this so I've brought on two people who are very passionate and excited about this book To share their opinions namely Tom and Doug who what that means is that Vince didn't even open the book? Yep, no research zero. We're going in cold, baby. I'm gonna learn everything as we go. It should be fine No, obviously I did read the book, but I'll admit a lot of it washes off me This stuff doesn't stick Because my brain doesn't want to retain information It knows it will never need to use because I will a never play this army and be my chances of playing Against this army at a tournament are so close to zero as to not be worth worrying about. Oh You'll play me. It'll be okay And I will give you a terrible experience I'm sure yeah, but Tom will bring him to Warhammer world or whatever or we have it But of course first the news Tom, what do we got did Tom open the news before this time? You know it's we we live in an interesting day and age. Let's just talk briefly about I Don't know. We'll fix it the war in Ukraine Let's not that sounds like something not to talk about at all. Well, what we'll do is I will start with the news item that gw Has decided to stop selling models there in Russia in Russia. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that was a That was a I mean it it was a surprising move, but it was a move it happened And by the way, that's not on your news list shame on you that's Left it off because it happened and I have nothing to say about it other than okay It is a wide world of geopolitical disaster. So it's beyond me. It did and yes, of course Kenny This is stalling of course Let's get to the actual news Okay, that's her. So we have this grenade spear Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. So we have sword guns and now we have grenade spears. Well, this is a traditional So so this is one of two things This is either a rough rider lance from 40k Because as we all know DMX is alive and well in the 41st century and His rough riders carry grenade lances. I used to play rough riders quite a bit in when I played Imperial Guard back in the day Anyways, this is one of their weapons. So it's either a new rough rider of some kind or It's an ash wastes necromunda type thing. Yeah, that's kind of I was thinking either Like it could be that like they know well that these grenade lances existed for Rough riders and so they're like, oh, haha. We'll trick them. We'll put this out there and then but it's actually an ash waste thing Oh swerve Right. Yeah, it's probably an ash waste thing and that's fine. Like I want I want mad max High-jagging trains with grenade spears. Yeah, sounds fun to me Yeah But More importantly than all that let's talk about the new us open season that was announced boom There's the map. It is up on the screen. Oh, yeah, I forgot that that was this week And Like I would say Locations that are probably more central to more people this time. I think yes With No But yeah, so Seattle, Washington, San Diego, California, Santa Ana Pueblo, New Mexico, which I don't know what that is Is that a suburb of a larger city in New Mexico? I Didn't look it up. I think it's Phoenix area Maybe That's that's Arizona. No, maybe it's not. I don't know. It's it's it's all down in those It's fine it's the other sandy dusty place. Yeah, so No, there's nothing down there It's right near that right there alone star state. They call it the windy city the big The big banana that's what it is if it's if it's not in Phoenix and there's really just nothing sure I don't know if that's like near a larger city. I I've not heard of that city So I assumed it was a suburb of another city Um and then Kansas City and Chicago like you look at that list and those are all quite well-known u.s. Cities except for that one And so I was playing the The one regs basement Exactly Just like an old abandoned shack in the middle of Montana wilderness, you know like So I just assumed that was probably the case Montana also a different state but continue. Yeah, sure. I mean it's just my point is like it's as though when they say like the Warhammer Citadel is in what like grapevine or something like that Texas and it's like well, okay But that's really the Dallas Fort Worth area. Yes, you're yes. Yes Like you don't you don't fly into grapevine or whatever you fly into Dallas No, no one has purposefully gone to grapevine and been excited about it in decades Yeah, I know that's your old that's your old stomping ground there Doug. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep Tristan said it's a rolling Badsbury Kleiner warehouse. I like it. I like that So at any rate the yeah, new u.s. Open season five locations so bigger season I do like the locations Tom you you making your way to Chicago or you go into Kansas City? Which one are you gonna hit or both? I think I'm helping you go to Kansas City because And looking at like my commitments this you know this Fall I think I can make Kansas City work more easily than Chicago But maybe not I don't know like we'll we'll see is the right answer I'm going to make one of them But the four unfortunate thing is is that I one of my dear dear friends in Houston is getting married When finals is in November, so even if I were to qualify I can't do the like the championship Gotcha. Well, there you go Please pass along that I appreciate not getting an invite as usual I know exactly who it is and as you just tell him it's exactly what I would expect from him Invites have not been sent out yet. So sure Just gave me I saved a phone call. No, that's fine It's good, dude. Um, okay Maybe you should be a better DM. I'll invite you next time. Maybe you should be about that at any rate The Yeah, I'm excited about the new season. It seems cool. I last one was well received seems like they do some fun stuff Cool good stuff Man, it'd be nice to have something on the East Coast, right? Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure it'll move around year over year The East Coast is pretty expensive, especially for renting like yeah, so that's I'm sure that's a challenge, right? Yeah, I don't I don't know but it feels like they should look like maybe North Carolina or something That'd be a good place. That'd be a cool place to go. There's some good places down there Like the research triangle that they could probably yeah hanging out in Raleigh. That would be cool Yeah, maybe you know doesn't have to be Northeast, right? So You'd be the old Southeast Atlantic region there at any rate. What else we got in the news? Oh So you're ready for this Well, I don't know I'm all right battle scroll so Guess what everybody you're in luck. I don't know yet I'm gonna pause. I'm gonna let both of you go for a second. So Tom Any high-level thoughts on battle scroll before I get into it I'll let Doug go first. Okay, Doug. Okay For me my main takeaway was that they're trying something new and I firmly encourage that whether or not it will make This specific approach when I look at things. It's it's not just The immediate change but what this could show in the future So like they threw this together and then they can tweak it just like they did with the mercenary rules or any number of Rules that have been bolted on to AOS over time into this epic snowball that is their tradition And so either way I look at it. I look at it very positively. It's not a good Change necessarily now, but it heralds cool design directions in the future So cool. Does that make sense? It's not the hero. We needed but it's a hero We kind of want later on when they figure out their powers No, I mean conceptually I think what you're saying. I mean, I don't want I don't want to put words in your mouth So please tell me if I'm wrong, but conceptually what you're saying is you like this kind of like positive exploration it's good to see them chart new game design space and look at alternative ways to kind of shake the game up as they have frequently in the past and regardless of the implementation or execution of this specific one you like when you like in general the idea that they're they don't see it as a A calcified game, right? They're still willing to experiment and and and look at different angles on yes, and you know Regardless of effectiveness, I like the concept or the focus of like Let's try to just not change the books and see how we can raise up the bottom versus punishing the top too much Which not everyone. I mean some people think that they punished various factions, but I don't know. Overall, I like it. I'm going to play around with it and try and then I thought You know, I just talked to your to and see if they want to use it That's all there is right on Tom I mean It's fine I think that at the end of the day, it's going to be pretty meaningless Um, and I don't mean that Dismissively per se. It's just that it's not I don't think that it's going to turn as many games as you think it might Of course, um I think that it's only going to it's actually once this outrage cycle passes I think it's going to be largely forgettable. Yeah, probably so much so That we're most people are really going to forget that it's even a thing Many are let me say it that way and Many will probably even forget it's a thing in the actual event itself Like people remembering to like score those points and stuff like that Like in general, it's just not going to be a thing likely Like a real big news item a real big complaint until it is and what I mean by that is What's going to happen is we'll have one or two instances where This will overturn an event This will um And what might happen is the person that they're playing like has forgotten that extra points are being scored And then each are kind of tallying their points or whatever you get to the end of the game and suddenly a win was a loss And it might be at a high table and it's going to throw up a bunch of shade and open a bunch of wounds and It's just going to be a mess Because in general most games it's it's going to be inconsequential until it is consequential Again, it sounds silly, but um Like I don't know that it's going to generate anything but feel bad experiences um for a majority of the base because What it's going to do is it's either going to be forgettable unattainable or punishing, you know that that captures a majority of the base forgettable punishing or um unattainable And then for the handful of armies that can actually capitalize on this that has a strong enough base to to To hunt those targets. Yep They're gonna they they are going to uh do great with it. So um All I gotta say is knight haunt bitches I am fantastic ending to your thoughts Okay, oh my god, that was so dramatic of a neck crack Let's get to it So here's the deal everybody you get not one power point tonight, but two because fence was so worked up about this That uh That he made another power point Was and m here we go. Let's talk about economics and warhammer. That's right That's what we're going to talk about because that's what this is This is just raw unbridled econ 101 okay Because this is an incentive structure The very basics of economics is the belief that through the altering of incentives you can change behavior This can range from very small effects like the nudge units in various countries Including the uk that have shown great success at changing slight behaviors with low cost solutions To extremely large incentive structures like changing your entire tax code or something like that Uh creating and you know isolating out the 401k so that money moves into to wall street as opposed to say private savings or something like that So this is nothing more nothing less than incentives It doesn't change any of the actual rules. It just simply says these are your incentives Do this you get bonuses do this you get pain those are incentives in the simplest form So we are applying economic principles to warhammer. Okay. All right, great. So what does this do? I don't really feel I need to explain all of the detail that's on the slide at this point because Uh, frankly, all of this has been covered like a hundred thousand times, but in brief There are now a list of priority targets priority targets are War scrolls that they have identified as effectively too powerful Okay Or too prolific It could be that as well They're using prolific as a substitute for power Like they say they show up too much There's plenty of war scrolls that show up in a lot of lists that aren't right here on this list So that cannot be the cut point alone right Because there are simply more popular war scrolls than these Sure all right So those now become priority targets when you kill them you get some number of scaling additional victory points What this means in the shortest form is that there are now more victory points in the mix of what you can get Okay, put theoretically The maximum score for a single battle tactic instead of being three Or perhaps four is now eight Just as a simple example Okay, if you had a Prime hunter which we'll talk about if you had a prime hunter monster complete a battle tactic to kill A battle line unit of let's say six dragons that would be worth eight points Okay Cool, I love it So and I encourage you to attempt to do that calculation on your own. It's fun Uh, and I am sure about I would say at least 30 of the people do that run into such a similar or close situation in a game We'll get it right at least 30 percent will get it correct um, I wouldn't bet much higher than that the Uh, this also introduces the concept of prime hunters prime hunters are effectively underpowered armies Right. Um, so sylvaneth gloomspite bone splitters. Yeah, bone splitters. There we go. He'd knights skaven knight haunt and ociarch Uh, the idea being that all of these factions are in some way underpowered And so they can score an additional extra point whenever they kill these priority targets um, so If you're not a priority target, by the way, you do not score the points if you kill a priority target with a priority target So if you use your fulminators to bring down a gate breaker, no points are scored. No money changes hands. Fantastic If you however use your vampire lord on zombie dragon to bring down a gate breaker You get two points if you use the black coach to bring down a gate breaker you get Uh, three points if you use a gate breaker mega gargant in a gloomspite gits army as a mercenary To bring down a gate breaker mega gargant in a sons of behemoth army. You get three points Somehow that is also true Here we are Because the giants all exclude their use as mercenaries If you use cragnos in a bone splitter army to kill a gate breaker, you get three points So good times All right So that's the basics. That's just laying down the facts of the situation. Okay Now let's get into it overall feelings There are three normal methods of balance changes war scroll changes rules changes and points changes The reason I separate war scroll and rules is because those are two very different things in practice Uh, of what they've shown they can do. So like rules changes definitely have definitely Generally happened through like an FAQ where it'll be sort of buried in here, right? And they'll say like replace the text of this with this Whereas a war scroll change they'll often publish a new war scroll. They do this all the time Think of uh, the last one of these right where we got new scrolls for cragnos archion and um Uh, Nagash Okay, so this adds a fourth method right, this is an incentive structure method of altering the Of changing the perceived overall balance now whether it's effective at that Uh That is something we're going to discuss in a moment, but it is theoretically a venue They're trying to use an incentive based structure instead of direct market intervention Again, this is all just econ Okay Where I begin with is the following game design 101 is all game design rules must answer a single question Does this need to exist? When you are writing a game You have to start with a set of guiding principles that then from that point every rule you write has to be checked against them And you always ask the question does this need to exist? If so, why all game design choices have both good and bad as part of them everyone Every game design choice you make has a downside to it has bad things that happen So even when they're overwhelmingly good, they're still bad And even overwhelmingly good things when added en masse without answering this question makes a bad game You can have a terrible game consisting of nothing but good rules Okay You can throw a single stone in a river. Nothing changes. You throw a couple thousand stones in the river. You damn the river All right, so Why does this exist their answer they gave was balance Right, that was the straight up answer given in the article. I'll take them at their word Okay Does it do that? This is the question that needs to be answered because if it doesn't do that then not only does this fail But it's worse than that Because it's added rules bloat And it's created unintended consequences all over the system Yeah, okay And that leads us to the next part of economics by when you institute large-scale Regulation incentives to change behavior. You have unintended consequences secondary and tertiary unintended consequences Again, this is just sort of And the part of this is soft incentives. That's what this is. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. All right, so If if this doesn't work, it's worse than just this thing not working. There's more on the line here Sure. Okay The challenges. Okay, what's good about this? It shows they know what the problem units are Like they've made a pretty good list of the problem units. Like I don't mean that flippantly I mean that seriously They have accurately diagnosed the problem Right, like yeah Like there are a few units that I would I would have put on here There are a few units I wouldn't have put on here But they've accurately took to some degree diagnosed like hey, these things are too efficient or powerful By the way, go ahead Doug. I don't I I want you to be able to interject So what were you gonna say? Oh, no, no, no. No, I was just I was just uh, you know, like well, they know what the problem is And just made me think of An expert that was hired in the oj sims in trial to like verify that they were stabbed He's like a eight-year medical guy just being like, yeah, they got stabbed. It's like, yeah, we Nobody we all know the problem I couldn't well documented I couldn't agree more. Okay. Yeah, like Anybody who plays this game to any degree knows these problem units like it's just well Someone argues What's that? Some would argue that there are other units that needed to be on that list like of course, of course, of course Yeah, yeah, I'm not saying it's a perfect list. Okay, like but they got most of them. They got a good That's a good list. It's not a bad list all right And it's a good concept to play with game mechanics as a balance function Uh, and it shows they know where the weak armies are like one of the things I've talked about was that You know, they could mess with game mechanics and incentives as an as a An actual method of balancing armies in an army book like imagine you had an army that wasn't very good at offense wasn't very good at defense wasn't super mobile Right, but had But imagine they had a bunch of special things going on that were bespoke written into their rules That was like they got extra points when they did certain battle tactics or whatever, right? If they held if they held one two held one held two held three or held more sorry If they achieved that maybe they got four points instead of three, right? You could play with different things like that to give them chances right, so you could actually make them mechanically powerful to to to Balance against the the the weaker quote unquote in game rules. So that's theoretically on there Okay All right, what's bad about this And I'm just using words like good and bad because I just want to avoid Sort of normative connotations like we're just going to take this down to five-year-old words like good and bad. Okay It does not create balance It creates new winners and losers It does do that But it doesn't really help the lesser armies win or stop good powerful armies from exploiting it Okay, looking at you idk Yeah, like if you're you know There's if you're already good I'll talk about it more in a moment But if you're already good and have a deep bench You can now exploit this to go hunt extra points the one of the best one of the armies That should be most excited right now is something like seraphon Who has a ton of great units many of whom are not on that list they got two on that list who cares they're hunting now Right they are the hunter Okay Yeah, it is also this is this is actually my major problem with it point two is my major major problem with it It's completely based on killing And what I mean by that is it overweights the importance of killing we left that world behind Yeah, when we left behind Fantasy battles right when we said no no we're playing an objective based game now and like killing is part of it and waits in Yeah, but objectives are what matter. That's how you score Right and we already pushed back into killing to some degree With the battle tactics often in the current round of crop of battle tactics often incentivizing killing This pushes even harder Well, and the irony is that these units often are over like overly tuned towards killing Like they are overly efficient killing units already. And so the response it's given is is more killing just the other direction Yeah It's interesting like imagine a world where instead of Uh, it being based on killing these units you just said They can't they can't contest objectives Sure, like there could have been other ways you played with this. Yes, they wouldn't Dragons can't contest objectives. Sure. You could have gone in many different ways, right? Um, but they didn't they said no all you need is kill Instantly that that what that creates a soft secondary incentive of is damage matters more than anything All right, because that's how you get these points. You don't get these points for partially killing a unit Right, right not for damaging a unit not for running or retreating from a unit Not for holding an objective when that unit's also contesting it Nothing you get it for killing it. So you better hit that unit hard and with everything you've got and it better die Yep, and ramp damage was already the strat Which leads me to my point number three this incentivizes shooting in a big way The thing that's already the number one problem in the game So if you have a problem with shooting, I would have a problem with this rule set because let me tell you what If I know I could get bonus points. There's two choices for how I get those bonus points I can take a unit that has to walk across the stupid board Find your unit get in a punch up with it kill it when it has a chance to kill me back or to have other units Kill me back and then I potentially lose the unit. I just fought with to your counter charge Or I can just shoot you from here and risk nothing But and let me just let me just highlight point again These are these predator units are overly Are these priority targets priority units are overly tuned combat units So what you're proposing is sending in Lesser tuned combat units into the grinder against these overly tuned ones Sure, sure that is a losing proposition. The right answer is to shoot them Yeah, your gore weren't going to take down the dragons. Okay, or whatever. I know they're not even on the list But you're your gloom spike gets your regular grots weren't taking down the dragons. Anyways, okay So shooting is is back on the menu in a big way like it's the number one way to get this If you have power projection in your army, I go back to seraphon Congratulations because they've still got a bunch of power projection that wasn't a priority target meaning they can go hunting hard It's more complexity for casual players to remember point number four Do you know how many times players forget the one bonus victory point for monsters? all the time okay And so like asking them to now on the fly calc this fun interaction of like, okay I had a prime hunter and he's a monster and I killed your unit as part of my battle tactic So I get two for the tactic one for the bonus one because I killed a monster. You're a priority target wait Was that reinforced? Okay. That was reinforced Good times Good times that I'm sure that's no there's no way that would slow the game down or people wouldn't mistake or forget those points now On top of that. This is technical debt and not scalable I think what a lot of people look at this they look at this is like This is also just happening now like this is they think of it in the present. I don't think of things in the present I think of things in the future. This is tech debt This isn't scalable all both those things are separate things and I'll show you what I mean by both Are we going to update this every quarter? Like you're the the prime hunters fall off the list automatically when they get a new book How often do we now update our priority targets? Are those is this now up? Is this now part of the quarterly update where priority targets get updated? Like if we're going to need to put new stuff on that list, what if idk comes out? Like what if idk is just dominating? They have units that are just blowing the meta apart Which I I would put money on uh You mean a kelly and kings and uh turtles aren't going to be on that list, right? Like yeah, just something from that from idk end up on here. Like how often do we update this? Because this is now something just like points and just like scrolls and just like rules if you want to put a fourth method in It's got to stay current That's tech debt. Yep. That's more work. Somebody has to do Okay How long does this stay in the game? Does this say is this like for now until the ghp? Do we just retire this when ghp 2023 comes out? And then we say bye Is this like forever I don't know I know war scrolls rules and points are part of the game forever. I don't know what the heck this vestigial appendix is Okay Yeah And ultimately the fix for bad rules Is it more rules? Oh, and the other thing I'll say is this isn't scalable when I say scalable. I mean How many times can you do this? They can't keep making new subsystems like this these big layered things If we get one to two of these a year, can you imagine what the game would look like in three years with six of these laid on top of the game? I can't imagine sigmar meme. Boom the hell. I can't. Yeah, just reset it I mean there are already too many layered systems Okay so Let's talk winners and losers Winners anybody who isn't on this list of priority targets Who also was a good army? Like When you apply massive regulations to an economic system The people who respond to that the easiest are large rich Companies because they can afford to treat those heavy regulations as The cost of doing business they can set up whole new departments and just throw bodies at the problem Okay, whereas Like smaller people independent people who don't have those kinds of resources It's much becomes much harder to navigate complex regulations. It's the same thing here The people who are already winners who are already rich in our game terms Which is like soul blight and eigneth and seraphon those kinds of armies that were real strong And have a deep bench and don't you know have enough priority targets for their good units Oh, they're gonna clean up in this world. This is the rich getting richer, baby Like if I was playing lizards, I would be stoked If I'm idk I already thought idk was going to rock it to the top of the competitive meta as it were This just I mean you might as well put them in a catapult and shot them to the moon Because they're they're going baby Mercenary mega-gargants proceed. You'll see all the mega-gargants just broke their tribes Because suns is like the biggest loser out of all of this and fine. I don't think a lot of people are going to shed a tear right But there will be a ton of mercenary mega-gargants who show up since they're accepted They can like in two of the armies where they can show up and they can get you Many bonus points for killing things Like that gate breaker costs nothing and can go stomp the crap out of things and get you bonus points everywhere Because he is capable of taking out a lot of the other priority targets Uh ironically somehow I agree smorgans said it's the biggest buffs seraphon have received. I completely agree I completely agree. It's the best thing that's happened to seraphon Because they risk very little even if they include a few of the priority targets basties are so tough and so ranged damaging deadly Like It's completely worth it. And you have other great units you can fall back on Well, and it you can force the enemy to make bad decisions to come into you. Yep. Yep. Absolutely Uh lumeneth realm lords somehow sent sentinels aren't on the list and sentinels are awesome power projections So just like sentinels can be like bam bonus points. Bam bonus points. Bam bonus points. Whoo. Yeah Like who doesn't love mortal wound no line of sight shooting with re-rolls, baby Let's get them priority targets pop pop good great make sentinels better. I say I say make sentinels great again That's what I say night haunt Uh, so this is actually buff to them both the death factions I think are funny here because there's clearly it's sort of this weird Thing that happened where they had no priority targets and both of those armies were actually not terrible Night haunt was worse than bone reapers like bone reapers is a big winner here They were actually pretty fine like they were coming out kind of in the middle of the stats As it were like what a great buff for them. Good day to be bone reapers Uh, so nice Uh storm fiends cave and spam boy if you like storm fiend spam Um Today's the day, baby Because because those storm fiends are now prime hunters and can just go And launch them win launchers at all the priority targets just blowing them away And then of course crag knows who can show up in a multiple of the prime hunter armies And just go smash people for bonus points like many bonus points Okay Yeah, negosh it said negosh is humiliated. He's not worth the bonus points unlike salamanders I was kind of my thought like if you're not on that list if you don't have any models on that list I just imagine all the grand alliance death. He'll be like, oh Yeah, yeah Negosh, he's already not killie enough for his points And I know that sounds silly, but he's the highest pointed thing in the game and he's just not killie enough Yeah, so like I understand why he's not there No, no, no, I mean, I don't I don't want him to be there. I just more I'm more just saying it's really funny to have games workshop acknowledge like These are the battle tomes that are the factions that we have like they're already neutered. They're good boys. They're okay Yeah, yeah, totally Um, the losers are storm cast who did loot like many of their powerful units showed up and often they were reinforced units And often they were fragile units now They're the weakest of the losers because one they were overtuned already But to it like it's one of the few examples where this might work to curtail some dragon spam because you do risk some points But I should say it won't actually matter to any of the loser armies Like none of the the prime hunter armies are going to win against dragons because of this bonus points Dragons burnt all of those armies off the table at the top of two So now instead of losing 33 to five days armies can lose 33 to eight. What an exciting day for them Okay, that's what happens to them. But if you're but the problem is they they do risk a lot Against idk soul blight and seraphon or something like that or or even lumineath by running a dragon spam, right? So it's they're not scared of the prime hunters get out of here with that name Get out of here. They're scared of the other people who do not appear on this list and are actually good Right Yeah The sons of batemot are now in a rough time because they're one of the they're this weird army that actually Won by standing around not by killing things And so they actually Lose very hard on this Like I I really do think this is an interesting nail in the coffin of sons of batemot They will still just absolutely house all the prime hunter armies who can't pass the dps check Like if you couldn't pass the dps check before you can't pass it now Uh, nothing magically changed about your unit's ability to do damage So they'll still win those but it just takes them out of like actual tournament contention Okay All prime hunters except knight hunt no br losers because this did nothing to actually help them You were already losing more or less by turn two before you will continue to do so in the future in most cases Uh corn who apparently wasn't a prime hunter for reasons. I guess I don't know why They don't seem that strong to me. They have like a 40 win rate, but okay. Sure. I guess that tome celestial was better than I thought Oh, yeah Uh legion of the first prince who seemed to get just like systematically targeted by the chaos things like the the priority target list of the Uh, it means like it reads like the core of a legion of the first prince army list You can just play that That's a bad army So that's rough And then flesh eater courts who have an even lower win rate and somehow are still not showing up on the list. I don't Uh, I don't get that and by the way, I have no book on the horizon Like i'm not saying we're not going to get this year. Who knows? I don't know But i'm saying we know there's no death book in the summer books. It's a chaos and order book So it ain't flesh eater courts. So they're waiting till at least fall Okay So that's my winners and losers list. Um, it helped no one it was supposed to help and Suddenly will rocket a lot of unintended armies up to the top of the list Great stuff. I'm I'm curious to see like how quickly when the when the night haunt book rolls out How quickly do they get pulled off that list? Sure. Uh, well, it's it's immediate when the book comes you you drop your prime hunter How do you where do you come to that conclusion? They had said that in the article. Oh, did they? Yeah No, okay. Yeah, it didn't say that in the actual prime hunter sheet in the article. It didn't it said it in the article. Yeah Okay, so assuming they they'll just it'll like automatically roll to the app when when the book drops to the app It'll update this with that. I would assume Okay, uh Caleb wants to know if uh adaptive con should use these rules. No, okay easy answer Um, uh, I will end with a simple question Like if you're unconvinced by everything I've said so far And I do want to say I actually agree with Doug's point Okay, despite everything I've said I agree with Doug's point Which is well founded That I want them to start playing with these new mechanics and explore a new design space This just just this particular Uh This particular Thing didn't do it. Like you didn't get there And this isn't t-ball. You don't get credit for trying. There's no participation trophy. You have to change your game. You own it Okay And So If you're unconvinced by everything I've said Here's the simple answer Which of these two worlds would you have preferred to live in? This additional rule set the world we currently live in or a world where all priority targets of war scrolls are just fixed Which one and and to me that answer is prima facie obvious I would have they just rather fix the broken scrolls But you're assuming Like the whatever like you're you're saying it is if it's just literally like flipping a switch And you're assuming that they can fix the broken scrolls Hey woe did a pretty decent swing at it in 90 minutes I I don't disagree. I don't disagree. I am assuming they can do it because that's what they're literally paid to do you're assuming that You're assuming that you saw hey woe do it. You're assuming they can do it. I am good game designers They're quality. There's there's smart people in that building I don't disagree with that I don't disagree with that Um, but I just wonder I don't know I Yeah Yeah so, uh So pinfold or said, what do you mean by fixed fixed? fixed I don't care. I don't need to get into the minutiae of it fixed Not as overcosted overpower or not. Sorry does undercosted overpowerful game breaking Obvious choice, whatever. There's a million definitions fixed There are 50 solutions you could do with every war scroll I'm not the arbiter of what's the correct solution. That's I'm just the outcome. I am a user I provide problem statements and my problem statement is I would like these war scrolls to be fixed It's a developer's job to figure out how to implement that It just dawned on me that The lifespan on some of the things on this document may be counted in weeks Sure, absolutely Because dock and night haunt are coming Yep So my point is and you know just as a final thought we know they can change the the war scrolls. They just did it Right the last one of these which I thought was pretty good by the way Yeah, uh Like it for the things that they touched the scrolls they touched um They just published new scrolls and pushed them to the app And like they know how to do very targeted simple but effective and powerful fixes See archion change. There were some minor changes and yet man it hit it It was like laser focused Zoop, yeah Okay, so anyways, that's my thoughts on battle scroll um Nice try good concept. Please keep exploring design space I'm glad you know what's wrong. I'm glad you know what armies are weak Please do things. Please fix things better than this like do the actual work Until then I will take my bonus points at it up to con. Thank you very much Sure, absolutely. All right Hence the end of the very long new segment. Sorry everybody, but you know, I had a lot to say here Okay, it's all GW. It's fine. You're doing exploratory stuff. I get that We can revisit it in three months. I don't think it's going to change a whole lot I think it's going to be largely fair forgettable. Um, just fix this goal Yes, just fix the scrolls. All right, let's go to pick of the week Uh dug What would you like to share with everybody this week as we handbrake turn away from this segment? Yes, um for me Oh my gosh, what do I want to um Uh, the uh gibbering dome is coming up here for adepticon and uh while I sadly am not going to be able to attend This year, I just wanted to throw a shout out to the guys organizing and running that because I've been chatting with them a whole bunch recently and and they're just awesome people. Um I just appreciate it. So yeah, the event organizers are really great. The narrative guys. I mean specifically It's an awesome event. It's an absolutely awesome event Like I always I often find myself wandering by and just watching people Play through because it's such a cool unique experience. So yes 100. I I support this Uh, I didn't have a video specifically to share but I uh, I just wanted to talk about the event Oh good. I love it. I hope I can't wait. By the way folks, we are officially officially Seven days from adepticon. That's right. Whoo Come on fast. Yeah that number scary Seven days That uh, I I have 10 times that number of models that need to be finished Oh Well, that's going to be a good time for you Uh, by the way, I didn't say it yet, but uh hit like for the return of You know events. I'm excited about it. I I'm very very very thrilled to be able to see everybody At this upcoming event and I hope events are coming back to your area wherever you are I hope that is something that can happen for you over 2022. So don't forget to hit that like button Tom, what do you got? I'm gonna take a detour out of the drama and Even that like this probably should have been in the news, but I'm gonna focus it now here in my pick of the week In that events are back, baby And that means go get tickets to midwest meltdown, which is available now Tickets are about to be to go live for nova in a couple weeks. They're about to go live for nash con in a couple weeks There's lots of different stuff happening and uh Go get tickets. Um Uh, I have a soft spot in my heart for events that do weird things And so I don't know if you all saw the midwest meltdown announcements But midwest meltdown has They're letting you bring a free underworlds warband That's cool. That's cool. Yes. So in your grand alliance. So if your order grand alliance order You could bring anything basically that is with an order And I love it like it's just there's just so many weird corner list ideas that i'm like, well I wasn't considering bringing this faction, but maybe I might now So Oh, yes, as martin said, uh, Atlantic city open tickets as well. Yes, that'd be another one on your list. Yep Absolutely as always you can check, uh AOS shorts AOS shorts keeps uh on his website up keeps a full events list and keeps it very up to date So you can always go check that out for upcoming events in your area Uh, my pick of the week is going to be actually simply a thing for this show um Which is to say next week we will be live Uh, not like we're not live right now, but like live and in person with an audience whatever that means Uh, because we will be doing a show Uh live from adepticon Uh on wednesday night immediately pre pro immediately after the Uh gw reveal show Are we doing it with a live studio audience or are we hiding in our rooms? No, we're doing it with a live studio audience tom You didn't watch the show last week clearly. I guess I didn't bother to tell you this yet But hey, now you can find out like everybody else. Yes, we are going to do this with a live studio audience I think we're in innovation. I think is the room, but it's down in the one of the art rooms on wednesday night I think it's innovation, but I don't remember the exact name Um, it'll start at so tomorrow next week will be a late night show um, so it'll be um starting at The gw show goes until 10 Central which is 11 eastern and we'll start basically right after that because we'll leave a little early to get everything going um, so we'll probably start at 11 eastern immediately after the gw Reveal show and it will be largely a reaction show. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, how many how many people does that room hold? I don't know some number Be there early. I guess I don't know I'm just trying to figure out how well you've thought this out. I mean, I'm in But when we stand up and leave from the the The show the the reveal show I don't know follow. I guess That's gonna be quite a walk out. Just oh captain my captain and everyone just follows Vince out of the freaking door right Uh, so, you know, there you go. I will I will bring my microphone. That's what I'm hearing you say Uh, yeah, we'll talk about tech stuff, uh at any rate So that's going to be my pick of the week. By the way, if you want more stuff on battle scroll Uh, more thoughts on battle scroll then, uh, you can check that like I've linked other people discussing battle scroll Down in the comments a lot of people did some some nice thoughts about it. So there you go Um, but I am very excited to do a live show with a live audience with audience interaction, of course Uh, how we're going to do that. I don't know. I haven't figured that part out yet But it's only I've got a week to do it. So I'm sure we can get it all worked out Uh It'll be a piece of cake Uh, so when it all goes horribly wrong, don't blame me Blame tom. All right. No, we're just gonna have people like popping in on the side of the camera Just talking at the microphone. So there'll be a camera facing the audience Well, no, there'll be the scrolling comment bar like the chat bar that we have Very nice All right, so with that Uh Gentlemen, let's get to some hobby time Uh Doug, what have you been painting buddy? Uh, lots of bone splitters. Um, I am very excited for Tyler's event Volors in may And so speaking of speaking of events. Yep. Yeah, I'm headed there and uh, I I have never actively gone to an event and tried to win a thing Like Like specifically to win I always just go because I have an army and I'll enjoy playing and it's a guaranteed three games Sure. Um, but this specific one they have an award that is It's called underdog, which is that you win at least two games Uh with an army that is um, just crapped here for the just simple ease of expression Uh, bone splitters are the one that I'm going with and I think it's according to Uh, the honest wargamer, uh, staffs. Is that right? Like whatever whatever they determine the weakest Yeah, it's like knight haunts on there now it could change whatever Um, but uh, yeah, so that's what that I've never like I said, uh I've never head hunted a trophy before and so that's exactly what I'm doing and so, um Yeah, it's going to be all all orc butts until May Very nice Thanks ziggie appreciate it. Have a good have a good night ziggie. Uh, all right Uh, I love it paint a lot of a lot of mostly naked orcs because you're you're you're on brand For the show you're like partway there Yeah, whatever. I'll take it You're you're you're prime hunters are rolling out also you're painting a bunch of naked dudes That's also on brand for this show since we're doing five So actually yeah Synergy synergy dug Unstoppable that's right Uh, no, I'm I'm excited I am I can't wait to see you five o the event. That's what's gonna happen. Are you are you going Vince? No, I won't I won't be at that one for I have a conflict. Unfortunately Well, I am so I don't know Boom, uh, I don't know what I'm gonna take. I'm probably gonna take fire slayers ironically enough, but right now I'm working on this mess Ghosts Ghosts Yeah, I wrote my list and then I didn't actually think about how much of it I was having to like Paint new and so I was like, yeah, that's definitely what I'm gonna do and then You know recognizing I took night haunt to a an event last month And now I'm functioning painting an entirely different army So that's happening That's exactly right So Yeah, I'll get it done Very nice Well, I finished a project for my hobby time. I finished a project. I can't reveal yet But at latest everybody will see it next week at a depth con if not before I am beyond excited for this But really my main hobby stuff has been uh focusing up all in all my golden demon entries So now that we're in the week to 10 days prior Uh That means it's time to pull every golden demon entry out give it a complete once over Clean up anything that doesn't look good look at it with fresh eyes and do some repainting So I have been deep in the bowels of uh painting what I already painted That's been my week Uh, which is not the most rewarding thing Go ahead. What are you gonna say? Uh, no, I was gonna ask how how long in advance do you actually paint those things because I always think of it as like Down to the wire, but if you're like having time to put it away think about your life, you know reflect on yourself And come back to it Yes, exactly. Yeah I started on one of the entries in may of 2019 Oh god is your answer Because I was at the last golden demon in the uk when they announced the us I flew home and began assembling stuff that weekend To that was two armies ago for me, man Oh Exactly Yeah No Um, so and by the way, I saw some people Who were complaining about my my statement that obr was like, okay And saying they deserve prime hunter. I'm not saying they don't I'm fine with them as a prime hunter I totally have no issue. I do agree that they're they could use some help I wasn't trying to say that I was just saying like why them and not fec. That was really my point there Um, because I think fc release is bad I I watched them almost win an event last month. Sure. It could happen. Yeah, it's fine. They like again Yes, they probably both be on that list and it really doesn't speak well to death Right now who's in a rough spot overall? That's what I'm saying. Oh, we're not even on you can't even know me worth killing Okay worth killing Yep, okay. Anyway, so that's my hobby time. I got so much to do before Uh adept con but we're we're we're knuckling down Uh, that's that's been what it is We're gonna get it all done Uh, all right gentlemen. Well with that, I think it's time that we switch gears And we talk about damn fire slayers Okay so fire slayers By the way, I really like this piece of art Um, I think this was in like this is from a warhammer community article Um, originally where it's just where I pulled it from But I really like this piece of art. I really like the look of them not with the fiery mohawks, but with the like black Hair and beard. I just think it looks really cool. So He also looks like he's in very deep contemplation of this nergal skull, which I enjoy sort of an alas poor york thing What, you know, wouldn't it have been nice if there was something like this on the fire slayer cover? Sure Instead of the exact same cover Yeah, but tom tom the the the binding on the side is red instead of a dark blue like it was for soul war So it's totally different. He's got you on that But you know, it's not different my collector's edition book Look, well Who bought it? um Yeah, I mean Looking at the the you look at your books on the shelf by the spine those you'll know which one's different like Does any psychopath out there? I want to know in the comments right now I want to see it in chat if somebody displays their warhammer books on a bookshelf face out You understand, I'm saying like if they have them all Face out like on little standees like just Book displays, whatever. Yeah, like yeah like a comic book display, right? But not over. No, but I'm going to now Not overlapping. I want I'm talking Individual standees Boom boom. They are pieces of art right in everyone. Yes um So at any rate that would be um That would be amazing, but yeah, everybody just you you put books like you put books on a shelf with the spine Yes, and as as no balls has said I heard it, you know joked about as well on twitter It's not the same art. It's just that they all all fireshowers look the same Exactly Uh, okay Uh Boom boom fireslayers 2022 Let's talk about this. Uh, oh, we've got some people who do put the face out. It's you're crazy people You have like four books. You have a lot of or a lot of real estate. I guess I don't know Maybe you have a lot of bookcases. I got too many books. I couldn't face out anything. Yeah Okay Army army books facing out behind their armies in a display That sounds good. That's an interesting idea. Okay. Okay. I don't have room in my army display cases for that either Too many of those All right, sell them You Hush Doug you have no idea what his basement looks like it is just like well, I mean he has some idea He has some conceptual idea You could like literally see it behind me It's so bad and that's only like a small portion. Yeah, this isn't a green screen In a gw store, right? Yeah It's actually been broadcasting out of like a small shack that that same shack from earlier. I mentioned in in upper montana. All right. Yes so Uh fireslayers 2022 here's my general summary from reading the book and understanding one I don't like this army two. I don't care about this army and three This is not an interesting army to me Uh survey says it's not a very interesting army to most people as it is consistently ranked as the lowest aesthetic and played army in the Uh Of all active factions And and that hasn't changed nothing change nothing about that change with this release sure So I mean you'd have to put out new kits probably to move that needle Okay, but here's my here's my read of the thing. Tell me if the two of you agree I think it's a solid mid tier army book. It's got some options. Okay. Like I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's Um broken or anything like that. I think it's pretty firmly in the middle Um, which by the way, it's not a bad thing. I'm not writing that as a negative. Let me be super clear on that All right. This is how like books should be releasing and we go. Yes. That is a solid mid tier book That is how books should be released. It's like a mall tribes book Right like fine great. Thank you um Well, mall tribes has some design issues that this doesn't have but I understand your meaning on power level Okay, we can talk about that. Um My question are the activation wars back? Hmm, maybe a little kind of no, uh the last two weeks All it's it's just interesting how much asf. We've seen mentioned over the past Two weeks. Yeah, um now one of these books has a lot more of the last two week reviews than the other one does But it does show up in both Um, it is still limited ultimately by its small range of troops and those troops not having different defined roles That is to say this is by small range of troops. It's every non hero unit in the army, isn't sure Yes, I mean, there's three. There's three non heroes in the army. Yeah, I I mean effectively four I guess the way they split one of the worst roles, but it's really three It's three. Okay. They have the same keyword Which by the way does not need to be the death of an army Iron jaws only has three units and it's been consistently good and fun and even perhaps sometimes too powerful Like maybe right now, but it's based on the core design difference. Right. Yes, but it's right like those units have roles Right. Yeah, there's there's differentiation. Yes Um, it really relies on synergies to raise up the worst roles like if you read most of the worst roles straight You're just like, oh, this army is very bad Now that's not true. In fact, there's a lot of synergy that can push some of these worst roles to do some really interesting things But you have to actually see the whole sort of spider web here. It really does rely on different kinds of synergies Happily 36 attack Rend like three magma droths. Yep. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's yeah, absolutely Um, it is still a melee focus army that has overall mobility challenges. That's not changing Um, I do think the magma droths have more options and power now. They're a more interesting part of the list Um, I'm like, I think that they're they they did a nice job With them overall there is like kind of one problem. I have with that scroll We'll talk about when we get to them But on the whole better magma droth better So thumbs up good And it's really important for you to know your runes and know how and when to activate them and the different rune the different rune I don't want to say this like The different tech that is gonna you're gonna have at your disposal to mess with the runes Uh, like victory will be Victory will be secured with this army based on how well you layer once for game abilities period. Yes. Yep. Yeah That's it. Yep I would agree Okay Any anything I missed there gentlemen. Is that a fairly decent summary for my read? Yeah, I would say so for me. I would I would just say that if you already liked fireslayers it's just That only more so like all it did was just kind of explore more options for the things that already existed But fundamentally it's not it's not like a night and day. I mean Herdstone giving out one rend was a bigger change I feel like for a piece of chaos Then this entire battle tome was for fireslayers because they don't function differently But they um if you already like them, there's so much in here that you'll love That's that I think that's yeah, I think like if you were already a buyer I don't this is not a bad day for you. No, okay You did not get a slinesh book here. Let's just lay that out right at the top Yeah, right. No, I agree with that and there's actually like Um, there's some interesting like flexibility that's never been introduced to the book um with they like Bringing in dwarven allies is a real thing And you're actually can you can share Your rooms which is a big deal. It just is Yeah, like so like go trek with that extra move and now doing morals on wounds and uh and uh And to hit and to to wound on around Kind of a big deal. Yeah Yep, I Very much agree like that that's I know exactly what you're talking about and that thing stood out to me on first read I was like, oh Hello there, uh, that was uh, that was a general Kenobi moment for sure um Okay, so You know, so overall You know good honestly Kind of I think you said it really well dug when you said it's kind of more of the thing Yeah, yeah, that's all it is. Yeah which is When it when an army book wasn't horribly off of what it felt like it should be that is to say like Oh, the this army feels like it should be this that's kind of how I'd want to see the army books Come out. I don't need them to be like a complete. Hey, we we got nuts and totally rewrote everything from the ground up And now fire slayers are in all shooting low defense. You know Glass can in our man like wait, what it's not like nervels rewrite, right? Like with a new core mechanic and a new base concept and how you engage That's not what this is. This is fire slayers being fire slayers. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah So, um, let's get into the specifics. Let's talk, uh, let's start with The path to glory. That's right. You didn't think we'd talk about path to glory But we did and that's because dug is here and dug because we outsourced it Because we outsource it. I did not read this section. I'm not going to lie Uh, so Doug, tell us why the path to glory section of fire slayers is so awesome. If you're a path to glory fan Okay, so if you like casual games and storytelling with your friends, it's the single best one because All the other path to glory options really just have you either doing management of resources like the bones or The bones for asiak bone reapers or that kind of thing Um Where as this There is that element, but it puts on a level of decision making that lets you as a player feel like you have to Approve and turn down contracts for your magma hold the take which is sort of like a meta narrative thing That I really think is terrific. Um, essentially The it's kind of scattered around a little bit But you're going to generate a person who's trying to hire you so they have a whole like Convoluted d6 chart here where you can generate a table. I did see the table. I was like, wow, okay Um, but you generate a name and a title of someone who's hiring your magma hold But what's cool and and the thing that I I'm glad they didn't shy away from is that Chaos is all over this like you can get hired by a chaos faction or just like ogres can come in and hire you And then you're also given a quarry which is Um, basically it just picks a grand alliance that you have to play against And so you are hired by one faction to attack another type of grand alliance And then you accrue gold and urgo through doing so which you can then spend on Benefits pregame. There's a way to give them all bravery 10 which sounds rad um Yeah, basically Hold a guzzfest everybody gets so drunk that the next day they're super brave. Um You can delve beneath the mountain which just means you get better Territories which is only a very path to glory specific thing And like it's just cool because like as you're playing games You're building this story. You can keep working for the same paymaster. You can find a new one and layered on top of this Resource management of money and gold is a reputation system. So if you keep Working for the bad guys you get lots of money, but terrible reputation and that has consequences So I guess what I'm saying is it's decision making that reflects What makes them coolest from the narrative and that is the moral gray of a mercenary um And you're constantly having to like Well, I need that money But I can't take the hit on my reputation because it locks you out of certain things and and conversely you'll do stuff for reputation so In terms of just having an engaging Uh type of format for like a personal one player campaign It's it's terrific Very nice Uh, yeah, I I thought this was like I I did give this a quick glance Um, and I just thought it was like I thought the table was neat. Like I saw the whole like the whole thing of like generating Uh, you know who's trying to hire you and all this. I was like, wow, this seems a lot more in-depth than what I you know looked at Yeah I would really lean into the narrative of this army Yes more of this and path to glory this Because fundamentally if you look at something like stormcast stormcast is Do the core book and then here's a few other options And their only unique thing is that your heroes don't have to die. They just come back glitched Which is like that's totally different than saying you're actively Pursuing contracts fulfilling them and there's reward mechanics for Forging new artifacts for yourself. You buy yourself because you are makers. Yeah, sure, right? Yeah, absolutely So that's kind of I just I thought it was a really cool design space that they hadn't It's it's it just seems different than like the deep kin one or bone reaper or something like that Yeah No, it's great. And and it speaks to the the What what I like about this conceptually is that it shows that this army Is narratively rich and interesting Yep, right And unfortunately just because the nature of the aesthetics Of the models doesn't live up to Kind of what it could be Uh in getting people involved Like look at the art on that I know it's such a good piece of art Which one the the piece on the page on the screen. Yeah, like he doesn't look like a naked baby there one of the path to glory section He's kind of the oh god. She gets you guy over in the corner there. Like he just looks regal as Mm-hmm. Yeah, like if if it wasn't loincloths and more like meaty bojangly Like gold hanging from belts and doodads and geometric stuff I don't know Yep less loincloths Probably just like pants and shoes. Maybe that would probably help too that gold way I say less loincloths too, but just don't replace it with anything just be out there Be out and proud Exactly Okay That's they call that the the beard bump in the dwarven community. So, um, these are the x's the x's So super cool Now let's let's pivot here. Thank you, Doug. I appreciate you sharing the path to glory excitement with everybody Thank you for humoring me. Oh not at all. No, I was actually excited that you were excited about it because it's something I never talk about and I don't do it. Yeah for any other reason that I'm just not interested enough to really understand the whole ecosystem Coach nails it when he says like what if they were more mercenary like dogs of war or even like the giants Right, like if if if we had true mercenary fire slayers Yeah That could show up in any army like remember when we did that back and in addition ago Yeah, I wasn't at a general's handbook or whatever when they had that. Yeah, there's a ghp. They got those rules. Yeah Yeah All right, it is a shame. Uh, all right, let's talk allegiance abilities. Yeah, uh, so um, okay Allegiance abilities for the fire slayers. Some of this is going to be Somewhat familiar some of this not as we go through kind of the general lay of this Some things have same names and have kind of like moved around like they use the same name But it's now in a different place Right. Yep. Yep. The GW double speak. Yes. Like we really like that name. We thought of it, but now it has different rules. Okay So of course there are lodges sub factions. That's fine. We'll of course break into those in a little while Yep. Um, they have a new generic command ability called fierce counter attack You can use this command ability at the start of the enemy combat phase The unit that receives this command must be an orc hearth guard hearth guard berserkers or volkite berserkers unit. So Your non hero units effectively. Yep. Yep. That is within three inches of an enemy unit that made a charge move In the same turn Yep And not within three inches of enemy units that have not made a charge move in the same turn Cool The strike first effect applies to that unit until the end of that phase A unit cannot receive this command more than once per battle. So You can as part of the so basically it's the whole idea is like they get charged But they fight for it's a melee on leech out. Yep. It's a melee on leech out That's now But there are some notable differences there Yes, okay One this is happening during the command or sorry, uh during the combat phase Apologize right. So you miss the other command abilities. So you don't get all out attack or all out defense, right? It's working against those Two you can be roared out of this Mm-hmm. Yep, right because the roar can shut off your ability to drop Command abilities on the unit in the combat phase Okay. Yep And three it's only the enemy Charge phase, which I think people will sometimes screw up if you don't really pay attention that right It's it's you taking the charge. It's exactly what you said If you if you form it in your head like a melee on leech out then you're the timing becomes easier To sort of contemplate. It's not them going in and hitting first. It's them getting charged and yet Striking first because they're sort of ready and tough Okay, that's cool. It's a cool ability. It's probably like a good implementation of asf Because it actually is Costed in an opportunity cost fashion Against these other high value things and it's only once a game and it's only once a game per unit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Well, and I like the fact that it happens in the combat phase So like your opponent does all their charges and you with that information can then assess where It's necessary. It's not like a You have to call it at the top of the charge phase of your opponent or anything like that It's you got a chance to see if it's going to be meaningful and then just ignore it if it's not Yep Yep Okay So the one thing that oh good. Yeah The one thing that jumped out at me that like it didn't land until later and this talks about that like layering of abilities conversation Um, you're going to find out that I'm like super negative on or or a curve card Like the shooters like I'm really really negative Um But we'll get there But what's fascinating to me is that it's only like as I considered play style Like how units are interacting with other units on the battlefield It dawned on me that like there's a really interesting play for Oric units that get charged Okay So like let's imagine a world where you come into my 10 or a curve card. Okay I'm gonna unleash hell Sure for 21 shots in 10 hand axes Now I'm gonna hit for shit because the hit is Is terrible on that unit. So it's going to go all the forwards are going to go to fives Um, but again, you're going to throw out a bunch of attacks Yep, with a rent, you know a lot of it with rent. There's damage there. Yep. There's damage And then the 10 dudes now that have rend On threes and threes neg one one will all can strike first as well Yep So you can double You can double unleash hell first unleash and shooting then unleash and melee back to back phases So you'll basically Like super double activate if you drop the command points with with that unit before the enemy can actually start grinding through them Yeah, depending on what charges them they could really deplete that unit Right. I mean they could they could put some serious serious hurt Um on a unit that comes into them like you need to come into them with heat in order to actually like Um to pick up that unit. Yep Which I like because the idea of doing all of that letting even just a 10 man unit swing above their weight class It's a gotcha. I mean not a gotcha as in you shouldn't tell your opponent about it But it's like if people don't see that in action. It's easy to not think about as being dangerous, but Ten of those dudes will mess you up if you let them do all of that Right like Functionally shoot and then also melee. Um, yeah, it's it's interesting. Um, I still don't think they're worth their points, but It's interesting Sure All right, the other big one here is grim wrath oaths um So at the start of the first battle round, which is an interesting timing It's it's actually a really like that's a great timing that you're making that you're doing this I love this ability so much This book is like, hey, did you like grim wrath berserkers? Do you want to see them played? Well, we're gonna give you some reasons Why don't you just trust us on exactly? Why don't you tuck right in? Yeah, absolutely like six It's a good day if you wanted to put some grim wraths on the table, which is cool. I like that I like um for going back to wormer fantasy like I loved the different levels of Slayer right you had like more and more elite slayers that had more and more elite special abilities And this kind of lets you get back at that same Theme right? Yep. Okay. Yeah, I Just as inside like yeah, I have not made a fire slider list that does not have at least one grim raffin it I completely believe that I don't I think you would now you would just you absolutely would include one because they're actually Oh, yeah, good right like right Yeah, they're good. Okay Yeah, I mean there were moments when in list building when I was like 160 points For one of these stupid units like five of these guys or 10 of the guy dex chair setters Or I could give up this in vacation And get two more grim raffin right Mm-hmm Yeah, I'll take two more grim raffin Yeah, absolutely. So to baseline it just for we'll we'll get to them eventually but grim raths are 105 points, right? Just so we all understand what we're dealing with And they're not they're not leaders so they don't count against your leader slot and so you can just yes But they're heroes so you can throw as many of them in as you want All right So at the start of the first battle round, which is a great time to pick this You can pick one of the following oaths for each friendly grim rath berserker to swear The rule for that oath applies to that until the end of the battle If your army includes more than one grim rath berserker, you can't pick the same oath more than once so okay They all have to swear their own oaths um tom There's a lot of oaths here. I'm not gonna read all these right because there's six different oaths Instead, I know which one you like the best. I also know which one I like the best That's fine. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'll wait. I want each of you to tell me which one you like So tom, what's your what's your grim rath oath pick? Uh proving grim nears might to our allies like I am I am in on that so hard Okay So I will prove grim nears might to our allies add one to hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made by this unit If it is within 12 inches of any friendly allied units Okay Yep, um, I Love knowing that I'm gonna be on twos and twos Meg to rend to damage each double piling in like that that sounds hot to me And with a way to get double your attacks Yeah, and they able to double my attacks once a game. Yes, please. Yep. All right I'm gonna go to there. Yeah. I want I want to go that place, please And then oh not only that and because you can like trigger a heroic action like on that turn that you double attacks You can jump to meg for rent So your twos and twos four attack or eight attacks double piling in twos and twos meg for rent to damage each It's a lot of rest That is a lot of red For 105 points. Yes. Yep. Um, so I mean like I love that one because the reality is is that there's I almost never I don't think I've built a No, I built maybe one or two, but almost all of my list 90 percent of my lists have a gun hauler in them At least one gun hauler. Okay. Um, because this this army needs mobility, right? Like it has to have mobility and gun haulers are the The kings of being wherever you need when you need them and so like The gun hauler now is a hundred and five 55 points of hot sex of like 10 wounds teleport wherever Do damage and oh by the way it gets plus one plus one to your grab wrap now So I like I like having and like it doesn't it's not tied to one model. So if I have like two um Gun haulers like I can keep one within range For him fighting and then jump the other one around and then late game if I need to move him across table I can do that So, I mean, it's not the best of the to be clear It's not the best of the oaths, but it's the one that I like the most Fair enough Doug. What's your pick for oath? So I will pick a different one, but that was actually my hot take as well mainly mainly because I want so Goatreck is an ally um So basically what I want to do is have go trick walk up front and and kind of put that out there for everyone to look at And then right behind him is his little midi me grim wrath berserker who's like I don't know what the hell's going on, but I know wherever this guy goes stuff dies I'm gonna follow him And so basically Hit go track and they're like, yeah, I'll take go track. That's a good idea. And you're like Yes, and then the second punch comes from the grim wrath with double the attacks. That's awesome. Um for me, uh my second one Where was it at? What's it called? Uh Oh, I liked so I have a huge uh interest in like personal retinues for my heroes because it's Because I am a narrative nerd. I mean, that's just what I am And the idea of I will guard them with my life instead of picking one Hearthguard or Hearthguard berserker unit on the battlefield to be a retinue of a father or rune son You can pick the grim wrath berserker. So it's just like You lock him to a hero and then it's just him fist bumping your rune father as he's got his grand axe and Ah, yeah, that is like it. No nice Yeah, I'm I'm a fan of I will let nothing stand in my way, which is run and charge and And reroll run and charge rolls like just sexy on these guys a little missile. Yeah, like I mean Mobility is the name of the game You know me and this is anything that say if it if an ability says you can run and charge, you know where vince is living That's where it's at. Well, I got like it doubles his movement functionally Like let's be very clear. He goes from four to like seven and a half average with that rerollable run and um And rerolling charges like not only does that never been bad Um, but now it's really interesting because this army like there's a number of instances where I'm like Well, you know instead of deep striking a unit of like 10 or 20 guys Like I could see a world where I deep strike a hearthguard berserker that has rerollable charges You mean you mean a grim wrath berserker. Oh, that's right. Like a grim wrath berserker. Yeah, like I like I put I pair him with the Rune smiter. Yeah, so that I can put him like because placing two models on 32 mil bases Uh, good luck zoning me. Yeah, it's so easy to accidentally slip those in somewhere right where somebody just didn't zone out properly or or just can't Can't physically stop it. It's often easy to stop a whole unit, but not some tiny 32 mil bases Now you have an angry missile. That's only 105 points. That will kill things it gets into. Oh, yes Big things. Yep. Yes All right. Good stuff. Um Let's talk about cup. There's these these continue. By the way, we're not we're not done with allegiance abilities yet Yeah, uh, we kept our urgul runes, of course. Um, now some of these effects have changed But they're still the same basic concept at the start of your hero phase You can activate one of the following six types of runes You state which rune will be activated you make an activation roll on a one through five You get the normal effect on a six. You get the enhanced effect Before we talk about those I want to just quickly jump down to blaze a fury because it's super like it's very connected to this Yeah, um fire slayers have a new heroic action So and both of these by the way are at the start of your hero phase Which is relevant because you can choose to activate the rune Make the roll and see if you get the enhanced effect And then if you don't then use the heroic action. So anyways the timing on these does work in a in a combo-ish good So At the start of your hero phase, you can carry out this heroic action with a friendly fire slayers hero Instead of any other heroic action you would carry out. Um, so you don't get more it just replaces as always Um, but you pick one friendly fire slayers hero until the end of your turn the enhanced effect Of the ergold rune that is activated in this hero phase applies to that hero Regardless of the activation roll. Um, you cannot carry out this heroic action with the same hero more than once in this In the same battle hence to tom's point Of suddenly jumping your grim rath berserker from rend two to rend four Because you can use the rune of awakened steel, which I think is the strongest rune on this list But but maybe i'm wrong Yes, please. Yeah, like the basic effect is Everybody everybody's melee weapons rend goes up by one the enhanced effect is everybody's melee weapon Rend goes up by another one for two total. So all of a sudden that hero's got plus two rend Um, which is real potent and by the way, we're talking about it in the light of the grim rath But of course keep in mind that's gonna that capability On that struck rune turn is going to apply to any one hero you might want to be You know kicking teeth with right right question. Uh, just because I Forgot to read the mount rules. Would this affect the magma droth attacks, too Uh, yes The runes affect the The magma droths the whole war skull has that keyword. Okay. Yes Was that keyword so as as written? Yes, that would increase the rend of the magma droth attacks hence the 36 attacks On the mag father, which has been called the murder droth by it was it was trademarked by max There you go. There you go So, yeah, I mean that's uh that you could so you can turn many heroes into very scary things with that kind of effect But of course there's more than that. All right. Um There's I mean What other runes will go with same order tom? Uh, what other runes? you know, are you Keeping in mind here because it's not like that's the only good one. There are other good runes in this list. What's your other hot pick runes? Yeah, um, so runa fury, obviously because it frees up command points. Yep Um, because it the default one is plus one to hit on melee attacks Um, and so if you know that you're going to be receiving a charge that turn Um, we talked about how like the one counter strike ability removes the opportunity cost of the plus one to hit um Like are being able to do all out of assault this fixes that right because it gives them that bonus On that counter strike Um, and then like running rolling the enhanced effect, which you can't guarantee the plus one attacks. It's just hot Like it's just it's just really good Yep And then of course the the other one in my book that that really rises to the top is the room Oh, sorry. Yeah, Doug. I'm sorry. Doug go. What was your? Oh, no, no, you're good. Um, I assume you were going to say relentless zeal. I was yeah, sorry. I was trying to jump the line No, you're good. You're actually the one I was going to say was searing heat Um Because because of the thing that tom was explaining where you can do the is it like the overwatch and then melee and So it's uh, if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made by a fire slayer unit six It causes a mortal wound in addition to any damage So like I like that one because all those attacks again It's just dice, but if you throw enough dice at a problem all of a sudden this 10-man unit of volkites can swing above their weight class Oh, yeah And so I like that one. I mean it requires it's situational like if you're you know, you're about to take a punch It's not a bad idea. Uh, just to throw it on to do that I think the interesting thing about the rune of searing heat It is I too like the rune of searing heat says a couple things about The rune of searing heat. It's interesting The rune of searing heat is not keyed to melee attacks Correct as as many things in this table are Yes, so you're like Throwing Yeah, your throwing axis is the key here. Yeah, so I say yeah overwatch and then you get to actually Strike first in combat all of that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so like you're throwing 40 attacks off of 10 um 10 uh dudes 10 orcs Yeah, like you're in in your previous situation you construed right between their shots and then the axes and then their attacks It's 40 attacks where all of them are now causing a mortal on a wound of six basically right 41 I guess with the champ shot. Um So like that can add up It's also interesting because I think about There's a way to get these runes onto allies Yeah, yeah And there are dwarf allies that have guns Yeah, so it would now benefit from this as well so That's just an that was an interesting thing that occurred to me I have a list with 40 arcanots in there. Yeah, that's Yeah, because Between because one thing that where you're gonna find is that this army has a lot of priests and where there are priests There is curse And so suddenly giving uh, arcanots who have 40 pistol shots um Are not 40 like 30 Some ridiculous number, right? They have a big number of pistol shots. Yes a big number of pistol shots uh, suddenly giving them mortalling on sixes to hit and wound From one from curse and then the other from this rune is searing heat suddenly that's Enticing I'm gonna say fire o'copter meta. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's that's a very funny one shooting It's in there and all I got you a horde unit if we get a horde meta Hmm Yeah, bruno in the chat said cough iron drakes cough and i'm like, yeah, exactly. That's a Not a bad pick in general when you could be improving also their wren just like the normal trick So, yeah So the point is is that like the rune searing heat's really interesting actually in the different ways It can affect or work with allies if you go that route where your allies can benefit from this stuff And then yeah, the last one is that I really like is the rune of reliance zeal Just because it does add to their move characteristic plus two to run and then the enhanced effective plus two to charge We mentioned already being able to give that to to go track to get him going along and chugging Which is very scary With the allies, but I mean just the army's main challenge is mobility There's obviously a big answer that this is this one's more or less the same. It's always been It's a great turn one uh trigger Of course. Yeah, and honestly like to the point of the um, I just want to slip this in here I'll be quick with the ergold runes. The reason I like it is because I like When it's my turn coming up with a plan and then you're locked in like you have to execute that plan And it's it's one of the things I love about the game conquest. I'm not Sure if anyone here has played it, but like you come up with your all your order of activations At the top of the turn and then it's just a matter of when you activate units Playing it out and this is the exact same way of like I just need to move That's all that you just pick the room for that. Right. I just need to attack pick a rune that's good at that Yep So yeah, I mean, uh, I do love that we still have the rune of farsight We just can't let it go We just can't let these things go Here's the deal If you have most of your army within fighting range Yeah, sure. That's like 60 to 100 attacks that just move to threes and threes. Sure. Yep On on the on the the enhanced strike. Yeah, yeah on the enhanced strike. Yeah, of course, of course But I mean that's that's pretty good Like it's gonna do damage and that's the key it's it's gonna get something through There is some damage that will likely result from that. Yes Something might happen. I do not disagree with this because because you need to always ignore those axes like all just simply ignore the axes Um, except when you actually like when you hit a saturation point of like everybody's in combat Then suddenly you're in a different world with those axes. Sure I just think it's funny that the thing that actually makes the axes like the rune of steering heat is Makes the axes scarier than the rune of farsight the one that specifically bonuses the axes So like that's kind of funny. Um, all right Okay, let's talk command traits Um, I'm just gonna blow through the the orc rune father and rune sends real quick Here and then we'll kind of go through from there Those are the winners all of them. Yeah, like yes all of them are good. I like them all just pure magma uh, like I actually like I think All of these somehow that's true Like I want to I was trying to find some way to say that's not true But they this is so unusual to me. My body doesn't know how to react to it Yeah, they all of this feeling inside this feeling of of satisfaction They wrote four command traits and I could see a world where you'd want to use All of them It's so weird. I'm not used to this. All right So fury the fire slayers add one to charge rolls for friendly fire slayer units holy within 18 Um bonuses of charge are amazing and that is a very generous bubble Especially on a guy who can be on a monster chariot base Well, no, yeah No, I was just gonna say remember you also have the blaze of fury ability with Relentless seal which can give you plus two And to your chart so like all those things they do rack up on a hero So that's all I was gonna say. I'm sorry them. Um, no I was just gonna say that your volkites which are like half of your squirrels Right I'm not heroes girls are Which like and there are reasons to take both sets of volkites now. Um, are natively plus one to charge So this oh, yeah, that's right. Plus two And there is a battalion that people forget about called vanguard That gives you a rerollable charge once a game without issuing the command or receiving the command And So you could feasibly drop a block of 20 volkites in in vo starg And like you're not gonna get them all into combat Realistically, but they'd be on like a seven rerollable Sure, which is a good number as anyone who's played annihilators knows Yes, like that's a good number and they're like at Three attacks a model possibly four if a ruin father is near. Yep. And so suddenly like and you're on twos and twos Like that's like you're gonna do work when you make on even if you do 10 of those You're gonna come in with 30 to 40 attacks on twos and twos. Yeah That's pretty good Good Like bonus to charge good good good synergy with everything else you mentioned Blood of the berserker once for battle in the combat phase after this general is fought for the first time You can say they will go berserk if you do so this general can fight for a second time in that phase The strike last effect applies to this general when they fight last or when they fight for the second time Only unfortunate part of that that I don't like I wish you'd just let them The next time you get to make an activation choice is when that should happen not not strike last I don't know why we put that on there But nonetheless as mentioned there is a potential to make the murder drawth And you know this can be a part of it if you've got a dude Running in there on redonk rend slash damage going wild like he'll probably live against most units because he's Probably killed most of the unit he's fighting just make sure he's within three inches of somebody or I should say four to five inches of somebody Yeah, I mean like he'll lift a giant like let's speak like when he pops he'll lift a giant. Sure. Yep. Yep Hmm Um, so that's pretty generally fighting twice on super killy heroes Good Again, this isn't like yeah, this isn't super complicated math, right? That's why I love it. Yeah The murder machine fighting more is good because he does more of what he's good at Um spear to the grim near um if this general is on the battlefield when you make an activation role for the purposes of Ergal runes the enhanced effect applies on a five plus instead of a six That's actually quite a big statistical shift in your chance to get the enhanced effect Yeah, this is like the whole game like if if if I start with this Command trait and then I'll migrate to one of the other ones if my army build is appropriate. Yeah, sure It's just but this is how I start. Yeah Because the enhanced effects are so strong on a lot of those runes Other than the rune steering heat, which is funny It actually isn't I don't ever care if I generally get the enhanced effect like it's okay at best But for a lot of them, it's really strong. It's pre mortals. Sure. It's it's not nothing I'm just saying like if I don't get the five six. I'm not I'm like, okay Whatever, but getting plus two to charge getting plus one attack, right? Like one more. Yeah getting one more rend like these are big bonuses For your army y5 up under the effective, right? Yeah um So Literally doubling the percentage chance that that happens every round Uh, it's it's a big deal And then finally leader of the duart driss is all the hall. Yep. Okay Um water of all the different dwarves Um, if this general is on the battlefield Jordan allied units are treated as if they have the fire slayers keyword for the purposes of urgold runes battle traits Literally the only articulation for hospitality to your neighbor in all of war hamberdom, but yes Um, so yeah, like which means if that general is still alive Uh, and you have those a four mentioned ko units or um Or iron drakes or whatever and you Uh, you know, you strike the appropriate rune it can apply to them Um, or whatever Your ally dwarves happens to be go trek hammers You know, whatever. I don't care something Yeah In general you want melee power I'm sure your allies gyro copters Gyro copters sweet sweet gyro copters Getting in there. I'm just gonna end on them on them copter blades plat plat I'm on a respected competitive play platform. So I'm just gonna say random crap and I'm sure someone will believe me Seems right to me. I can't wait till some Five was an event with gyro copters and the last thing they were like, ah Called it I thought dug was just an idiot. He's like an idiot like savant He figured it out All right, so yeah, all four are good. It's a weird it's a weird feeling, but here we are. Um, tom uh Do any of the fire slayers priest ones tempt you away from the glory that is the inheritance of rym near I have one Okay You said no He said no Oh, okay. So there's one called avatar of vulcatrix Basically when you come pick duck, it's so you Yeah, it's the best I talked about So basically your general is a priest and so when he dies it immediately spawns an endless spell of the Whatever it is. Yeah Yeah, I'm holding for enough And so then immediately acts and if you don't have him in your army like you didn't pay for him You get him for free and all of the brune priests now know the chant to bring him onto the table and He immediately activates also if you already had him on the table meaning you don't get to spawn a second one Wherever the existing one is it also gets to activate so like it gets to move its 2d6 and do the mortal wounds thing Um, I love it ever since like gave spawn from beast of chaos sure like when a hero dies you get a spawn This is like the same thing and it's just the best consolation prize It's like rewarding me for being stupid and charging the priest straight into combat And uh, I love it. This is the piece of candy like reward, right? Like it's it's the bonus nachos. Yes Weird out there to be stupid kind of a thing. I'm here for The only like for me it's it's it's the only thing that I thought about was master priest. Yeah Because that's the strike the rune of rending twice in a game. I was like, yeah, that's that's what that's doing That's what that rune says that ability says get your rend rune twice I was like, okay. I'm two fifths of a beast of chaos army. Here we go I I agree with on that like if you're looking to like bring teeth everything in the Rune father and rune son is perfect There are some corner cases if you want to build this particular list around priests, but But well the challenge like so like I would invite us to think kind of meta meta consider Like how these units are functioning. So you have two units to pick from as your general, right? One is the rune master Okay The other is the rune smiter Unless you're you're running a mag smiter like a smiter on mag midroth Mm-hmm Both of those units have very specific like Functions and places to be with the rune smiter being your deep striker So you're often like he is a throwaway piece if you put him like because you're always gonna be deep striking He is there only to get another unit somewhere. Yeah So like him like he's not on the battlefield Like you can't until you deep strike him you cannot double right Yes, because he has to be on the battlefield. Yeah, right And And then on top of that like he's likely to die because he's probably going to be in a place that you deal deep striking units The rune master, which are is the other like likely one. He's the one that you look at and you're like, yeah I could see you know taking him and being all like Having him be a general right? But the problem that you run into with the rune master Is that one of his abilities specifically the only triggers when he is near the general? When he is near another model that is the general. Yeah. Yeah, I got you. I got so in order to actually like utilize his His ability, right? Yeah, you you have to Um Well, I don't know. Sorry. It's within any three inch of any friendly rune work rune if you're general Is it within yeah, so maybe it does trigger for yourself that you generate let's put a pin in it and we'll get to it When we get yeah, okay. Anyways, yeah, that's fine. Let's talk artifacts Cool, okay So Doug i'm hitting you up first on this one Uh, this is a page with a lot of different artifacts. Okay Yeah, they are just to set the table for everyone. They are divided between The rune father runesons The fire slayers priests and then fire slayers heroes just in general So they could also be given to the like grim wrath people You know, so our berserker fellows. So our our berserker friends can only Uh select from the bottom three but From any of these because I I don't think these are as strong all throughout but there are there are some some really fun ones in here Really they these they have some of the most like they have some of the fewest artifact lists in the game and There's very few misses here. Yeah, I would agree There's a lot of them that I love That's fine. I Okay, we can get to the point where I'm thinking about painting up mine as gray fear just to get two more of them like Yeah, most of my armies have been gray feared. Yeah, I agree that this is better. I'm just saying like these aren't all winners No, no, of course not, but let's count how many out of the 10 are Okay. Yeah, let's let what what do we like dug hit me first. Give me give me like two picks of what you like Okay, uh first one is for relics of the feared. So this is one that grim wrath berserkers can do Once per us drop of the magma malt magma malt ale. There we go. I'm so glad we went here first It's everything. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's the elephant room Once per battle at the start of the combat phase You can say this bearer will drink their magma malt ale If you do so double the attacks characteristic of the bearer's melee weapons until the end of the phase Which is important real important Yep, um throw it on a grim wrath berserker He can attack twice within the same phase whether he dies or not And uh or you know a murder magma draught mega daddy Yes, yes, it's the best and you make a lot of attacks. Yes. Now, obviously This isn't this one will not double the attacks of the mount, but it would double Mount but it doesn't matter like the the father will be at five base attacks doubled Yeah, I'm just just laying it out. This is that is in no way a strike against this item I think he will double pile in with blood of the berserker. Yeah. Yeah, absolute absolute winner. What else you got dug? the other one I really um It's not sexy, but the the volatile brazier it just lets you reroll chanting rolls for the bear And do what? Sorry when you when the bearer attempts to summon invocation You can reroll chanting rolls for the bear and the range of the prayer is doubled Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah Talk about that a little bit, Doug uh, so I I mean, uh Is there a specific thing that you're seeing because for me my thing is like the wall Like I'm gonna throw that little wall down way up in there the nose. So hopefully 36 inches. Yep passable And then, you know, I mean, I do like the uh The mag moth or whatever he has the infernoff Like even just increasing the range on that guy is just nasty all of it's nasty. Um Yeah, the molten infernoff normally has a range of 12 So being able to draw like to where he set up. He has his range is beyond that Yeah, but That extends it out to the way he works. It's gonna just make it like yeah, sure whatever. Yeah, 24 and moving eight And you can just chuck him like a yo-yo. Yeah, why not? Yeah, because he can just suddenly be anywhere So yes, yeah, and so like he will hit the pockets like the key is is what the the volatile Uh, what the brazier allows you to do is to drop him turn one into their line Because normally he would not be able to get in turn one. Um, and so that allows like Because you're gonna put this on your rune master who's going to be in your back field with your Or like midfield with your With your forge right hiding behind it and he's going to drop Their infernoff like into the line, which is just Like hot now he can also drop the wall 36 inches And it's impassable and you're going to set it up like farther than one inch away from other terrain And so you can actually create choke points and like make units not move be able to move at all Like things just stop moving and I don't think that giants can step over it Uh, they can They can they can move over in the spells and prayers Uh, does it specifically call out invocations on their war scroll? Yes Okay, and and even if they're impossible Wait, wait, so the runic firewall has specifically has a rule. It says nothing can go across it unless it has the magma drop keyword Right, right. I mean like they rule trumps giants Like or can fly My I don't know. It's worth an FAQ question Like a pretty casual reading of the thing would say you can walk over top of it. Okay, like The the the intention is clear and it says they can walk over invocations So I don't know man. It feel like feel free to FAQ. I wouldn't bank on that strat. You don't need it against giants Oh, no, no, no, I mean don't bank on it. Yeah, but yeah, but again against like 32 mil bases. You can pull them Uh, you can pull them out of combat like or you can like you can if they're terrain depending on how it's set up You can make it so 32 mil bases can't pass through an area and have to run like an additional Like 20 inches because it's only an inch. You're absolutely right anybody who's bigger than a 25 mil base and can't fly You can just lock them in Yeah, yeah, like so you could just choose people to not get to play and there's like no getting rid of it There's no unbinding the invocation That wall is there until they burn the the the like the The word save what you're not gonna do if you've done if you've chucked it into their line And so, uh it's It's uh Terrifying like it's like it like to me. It's it is so like it is a hot pick Especially in an army where you're so slow. Here is the current reading of long shanks because I saw. Okay. Um, like Coo-ho a cahool Cool, I'm not sure. Sorry In the in the comments was saying it does not it does because the FAQ for long shanks reads like this Okay When this unit makes a normal move run or retreat Okay, so not charged importantly, but yep It can ignore other models which this is This is a model Right and terrain features when you trace the path of its move across the battlefield But it cannot finish that move within three inches of an enemy unit Right. So interestingly that is the current FAQ wording. Yes, but here's the deal This model has a special rule a special ability on it. I understand. It says you can't pass across it unless you're a fire So you have to fly. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I say I'm ignoring it. You're saying I can't go over it Sounds like it's not it's not just an issue of passing over a model. It's an issue Of a special rule is prohibiting all movement. I understand that I get it And so it's definitely an FAQ Yeah, cool. Yeah, cool. So I don't believe that they can pass over it, but yeah But it's definitely an FAQ. So it doesn't matter what you believe or I believe it matters what they say the answer is So there we go. Okay. Cool. Got good picks. Uh, yes Those are his two. Um, like, uh So the like the acts of grim near Um, it like there are no other weapons like it in the game for like picking like How do I want to say this? um for choosing To like increase the effectiveness Like most things either if that increase rent increase damage or increase attacks But very few of them increase rent and damage Yeah, well and oftentimes you'll see limitations on that rent improvement like for the weapons that improve rend You'll often see it say But it cannot improve it to more than like rend three and we've already talked about the various Ways that rend could be going up in this army like that rend could be moving And so, you know, it's that like this is just one more on the pile Yeah, right and one of the weaknesses of the rune father is that he has rend one on a three damage attack And this acts of grim near pushes it to rend two on a four damage attack And when he when he pops off with that rend rune, he's on rend four with a four damage attack Yep And he can have or he can he can have he can't double But he could if he still if you do the acts of grim near with The berserker you could still get to ten attacks at rend four four damage Okay Sure, absolutely So that's one of them. The other one that I really like is I'm partial to the null city and icon I I like ignoring spells on a four plus spells and endless spells on four plus There's still enough magic. There's not a lot of magic out there, but there's still enough You know techless is still floating around croak still floating around That if I'm running four or five artifacts with this army, which is very possible by the way Um, like this is getting this is getting thrown on the pile Because I'm going to have a battle smith. Sure I'll tell you my pick because I actually only have one more. I really like that you guys pick. Okay. Yeah Um And that is the demon slayer Yeah Like on the aforementioned grim wrath guy the thing that's going to get in his way are stupid ward saves And like you put this on somebody like him and he's just like oh goodbye nergal You know there goes your your unit just he will just slice through him Like I've seen what this ability does when you put it on a competent melee force, you know Like obviously single it has this ability the only good unit and otherwise bad army But he just cleaves through nergal like they're like they're made of paper Right. Yeah, and this dude is a competent melee fighter By the way that you could don't have doesn't have to be on the grim wrath. They can be on other people as well No, but this is like grim wrath number two. I put the demons later on grim. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely He's a great pick for it, right? Because it just means you can turn him loose on like units of blight kings who he's relatively immune immune to them Because they're a little special extra stompy thing doesn't matter Right, like he can just get in there and do a bunch of damage to them if they happen Pile in like it's gonna get hard for a bunch. He's a small base hitting into like four big bases People often stretch their blight kings out in a line Right, like it's a very common thing to have blight kings move forward and sort of align Because they can so he just can like hit a corner of a unit and just go ham and chop that unit to bits Nope So that's why I like the demons later. There's a lot of annoying things with annoying ward roles in this game and that says nah Like it's just a great and rarefied answer Um, that's that that's my one pick. I I just don't buy a lot of the other ones like the fiery ring. No, please stop Um, the master rune is is neat. Certainly to have a three plus ward for like a phase Yeah, right But it's not making my list here. Just I like the army's tough enough. It's there. There are better choices I which sounds crazy because a war of three plus is so insane but Right, but that's the point is that you're there's just a profusion of excellent items That that one doesn't even normally get a second look Yeah, I mean My issue with it is it's it's too easily dodgeable What I mean by that is like if I know That you've got that and it's on that guy. I'm just not going to target that guy with a thing. I want to kill, right? Yeah, I just won't literally activate it when it means anything Yeah um, the plus two charge roles like again like You can get plus one elsewhere like you can make that count Yeah, my point is I'd want it on a melee type hero who wants to go fight and there are already better options I it's like three other better options in this list. I would put on the melee hero who can go Yeah, I get that that's that's the issue Ash cloud rune could it could have been an epic choice if it would have done spells and shooting Yeah, yeah, that was yeah that one because it's just spells and like right now There's just I mean maybe I'll say this the ash cloud rune could change in value if we hit a more magic heavy Yeah Right, but like right now. There's just not a lot of people using offensive spells on your army It's people use spells to buff their own units, right? My doing arcane boulder. Am I doing mystic shield? Like what a joke of a choice, right? I would have even settled for like keep it with spells But just spells don't work within 12 because then at least my My priests that I dump in there to transport units forward can offer something like he can But yeah And then the drop helm like I can see that in a in a lafnir list Like where you're running multiple drops because you're gonna want the the mag smiter in a support position Yeah, sure and Most of the the those Um, or sorry will affect the claws and horns Attacks because there's no three up to wound Right so that goes to two ups and then like and it doesn't overlap with like the runes will give plus one to hit You know and so that's like I like again, I I that's ended up in some of my lists in my in my uh in my uh In my lafnir list and so what's fascinating is we've just walked through these and at least Six of the 10 Are solid That have a real a real place My my list might be closer to five, but I'll give you six I don't want to argue over it like it because I wouldn't I wouldn't die on that hill But you're right. It's a higher hit rate than than most other book we see. Yeah. Yeah out of 10 like Like oh, I'm just curious. Which one don't you rank out of there out of the six that I need the null city Okay, that's fair Just again It's one of those like yes, maybe there's a world where it's highly valuable Okay, yeah, you're just saying in the current meta. It is not. Yeah, right, right That's all that's that's not a statement on the nature of that in general And i'm not even sure like it's bad to have those things Okay, no totally. Yeah, I mean like because again it does change and armies that are out there do change In it like it gives you a hard counter Right to castle against techless against Because like you can move all your heroes or all your kind of strategic spots in one of your big, you know melee units into this bubble and Which is functionally 24 inches Yes, and it's And it's against techless croak and negash Because a lot of negash's damage is coming from um Is coming from arcane bolts. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, and if we start seeing him on the table more than this thing increases in value Yeah, I don't disagree. Okay. Um, so somebody asked could we please clarify? How the plus one attack combines with a drought of magma tail I'm seeing loads of states and how to handle this quadruples margin year 22.2.4 handles it Yes, so the the basic rule of what happens when you have to apply both addition and multiplication to a To a single number Normal rules of math effectively apply here So multiplication and division happen first then addition and subtraction, right? So you would like if you have plus one attack And you have double your attacks you double the whatever the number says and then add one and then add one So like let's say it's three base you go to six seven you don't go to four eight So some people have tried to make the argument that based on when they are being applied Like so Because it's Like at during certain phases. Sure, right? Are adjusting to the characteristics and then being applied afterwards the reason why that doesn't work Is because it's keyed on the attacks characteristic right, okay, and so Like you have a singular number that is getting modified. So either it's being multiplied or it's being added and so The those calculations are always interfacing and that doubling is always being It taken effect before the addition or subtraction. This is why by the way when you get affected by a half movement spell Running still works Well, or why bonuses to charge are really good against like the demon the demon prince Of core ability, right? Because if you have like plus two to charge and you get your charge halved Suddenly you have it and then you add then you add the nice cushion. Yep. Yeah, exactly So all of a sudden like the five inch charge isn't that impossible anymore Even though it became a quote unquote 10 on the dice because yeah And like on runs runs add a v6 to your base characteristics. So the having happens before you add the d6, right? It's the same type of thing. Yeah. Yep. Okay Cool prayer scriptures and mount traits Tom, I just want you to talk about the prayers here. Tell us about the prayers It's interesting because When I look at the prayers, there is nothing here that like Stands out that I want to use every turn. Yeah, I agree But I want to be able to use all of them every game Well, which fortunately is actually possible three of the four like three of the four I want to use every game. Um I prayer of ash is Wonderful because it's basically is a Buff to one of your fire slayer units that gives them make one to wound to be wounded. Sorry And so this is functionally a variant. This is where the Um This used to be a minus one to hit and it moved a minus one to wound So it's basically it's like the aura that Um, what's their faces used to have? Um Permed are used to have but now lets you pick a unit and buff them 18 inches out Which is nice, right? It's a good buff Is a good buff Moving down ember storm. It gives the run in charge to hearth guard berserkers or volkites Amazing because you're going to use that We've talked about why we all stand why we all stand that already. Yes, more run in charge is good Yep, what's scarier than that hearth guard or that? Grammarath berserker getting there and they're mixing it up Well, in fact, it's let him letting getting him getting to do that in the hero phase Um and prayer of grammar fury will do that. Um because it's a fireflare hero without a mount within three inches of enemy unit They can fight in the hero phase. So that's hot Um graph of voltricks is the only one that really falls down for me and it's simply because um, you know, it allows a magma doth to um fight at the top of their damage table regardless of how many wounds they've suffered Um, and I mean, that's fine But in the current meadow where we can spend a command point to do the same thing when we need to Um, it is somewhat redundant now This would let you like all out defense or all out assault and Do you know and fight the type of profile? Which is fine. So there are some uses for it start completely useless But it's the one that is the weakest to me. Yep Doug I'm coming over to you for the mount traits. Um, you can pick one. Yes fire slayers magma draught hero to get a mount trait Uh, we'll talk about obviously ways to modify this stuff eventually. There is a sort of weird comical thing uh about this but uh What's your what's your what's your take on the mount traits, Doug? Um I I honestly the first two are really the ones that I would take. Um, maybe All of them are good. How about that? I'll just say all of them. I mean One of them like the stomp it adds some mortal wounds to one of your monster does a stomp the other one some mortal wounds I mean When we're throwing 40 freaking axes and doing sixes to wound a mortal wounds. Yeah, it's some I mean you're going from a d3 you're going from a d3 to three plus a d3. Yes Like that's a big swing Yes, it is it is it is my favorite is the second one where Um, when you have a magma draught and it does the fire stream It's a tax characteristic is based on the number of models in the unit you're hitting up to 10 And so this just says it's if it's below five, it's treated as five which I like the consistency It makes the gun more meaningful against heroes Which is not it's not a super long range, but it's a cool little be neg to rend. Yep Yes, it's again easily Yeah, my yeah, I'll tell you coal hard ancient is hardcore my absolute pick like that is Uh, like yeah, I want some of that sweet sweet thunder lizards action Bring it into me, baby. Give it to me daddy, uh because Subtract one from the damage characteristic of melee weapon attacks against this thing. It is good. They're all good. I mean It's only melee weapons. That's fine, but The what's fascinating to me is that like you see the best of all of the abilities across the entire meta Sprinkled in at various points in this book. Yeah, sure So like you get one unit that's going to be resisted against multi damage You get one unit that bypasses Wardtaves. Yeah, yeah Um, and I love that because it's like again for a for somebody for a johnny Who can pull all the right strings and line up the right fights? It's golden Yeah Is it gives you a tool for everything? Yeah, I'll tell you Doug my biggest problem with by the way Just a just a small note to the writer of this book I enjoy the young blood adult ancient thing. It's cute. I like that profession It's a little thing. They didn't have to do that. It's just a neat thing I like when writers write cool stuff like that. It's just it's nice. It's a fun little sort of narrative progression Right, right. Yeah, it's just cool Um, so shout out. Well done. Uh, sometimes it's the little things the um I hate lava tongue adult Doug and I'll tell you why Um, not because I disagree with any of your appraisal of it. I completely actually agree with your appraisal of it I just think it's how They're roaring fire stream should work Like I don't think this should be a montrake. I think this is just how That it should be shooting attack should be All right, like I would agree. It doesn't feel bad when you have this like stream of fire And it's like me me against heroes or like a giant huge huge Right. Yeah, it's more like the luke fire at that point, right? Yeah He plays he fires like I play call of duty, which is yeah, not good. Yeah I mean imagine if it or or Imagine if it calculated based on either model count or Uh, wouldn't characteristic whichever is higher. I mean that would be hilarious But I mean like again just This is the kind of thing that you just be at ease of use thing to make some short attacks on monsters Not not worthless. They're already not great when you're dealing with like ultra short range stuff like this Yeah, yeah, like what do you feel? Yeah You know it's come on. Yep. I mean sent those aren't priority targets anymore. Aren't priority targets So so they're clearly fine. So I you know go nuts This should be the standard and then the um Mount trait should be like it does a number of attacks equal to It's a value for holding an objective Like crag knows 30 damage Uh add The mount rate would be like add Three or five or double the number and increase the maximum accordingly Of course. Yeah, so instead of capping at 10 you cap it 15 or something like that like wow That'd be neat, right? You see you can have a real like he's got a lot of spits hot fire dial in dial in dial in dial in dial in I spit hot fire. Okay. Yeah, so anyways, there you go Alrighty lodges Yes Okay, so what we're going to do here is to cover this we're going to each pick our lodge Okay, done. Yes. So tom What lodge are you joining? Yeah, you get to go first. You get to join the lodge first You get pick of the litter as it were tom. You're um, you were the first to the magma hold Uh, well, I know what Doug's gonna do and so I'm going to Oh, that's nice of me. I I I'm gonna not take it if I get I'm just gonna go with vo start Okay, um, yeah, because vo start to me like makes like it makes a vol crates great again Um, like now, let's not get excited. Not the shield ones. They're just still okay. Um, I'll cast risk right there. Yeah, like one inch reach one attack models Yeah, it doesn't matter how many bonuses to hit when you're giving them, uh, but this really turns up um This really turns up the double axe volkites Um to the point where like it's like because when they're coming in they're coming in on twos twos to hit two So it gives plus one to hit and wound to uh, vol kite berserker units. I made a charge And so, uh, you're gonna be running like I think the right way to run this army if you're doing bodies is to run waves of vol kites with So like you have like, uh, you have your generic like shield guys that engage or either take the charge or do the initial engagement And then they're going to lose some models in in that first round of combat or the whole unit They'll charge up the flame keeper and then the And then you counter charge then or or you retreat them out You know to rally them up and then you you do your second wave, which is your axe vol kites And they're going to come screaming in hot on like, you know They get plus one to the double axe get plus one to Uh attack when they charge So they're going to like 10 of them will come in with 30 attacks 40 if the rune father's nearby and pops his bonus attack Um, so like let's just say 30 attacks on twos and twos And then with that flame keeper he can pop his ability and give them, uh, an extra damage So twos and twos no rend Two damage each. Um, if you pop the fire rune, they're all mortar wounding on, uh, sixes to wound Yeah, exactly. And that's that's just it when you think about the stack with the runes there Like obviously it's it's item on item on item that can actually make that's why I said if you just read the scrolls You're like, I don't get this but when you start seeing these combos pop, you're like, oh my god. Yes It's 30 attacks on twos twos rend one or two Damage two like whoa Okay, now that's a whole different ballgame right right and that's and that's 170 points coming in right yeah And the best part about this is that like they can retreat out Right, you know, we're talking about these kind of waves they can retreat out and you have a battle smith that's riling on a four plus So you're gonna refill those units quickly Yep All right, good pick dug You're what lodge you're next up you you've arrived at the magma hold next you're banging on the door What lodge are you seeking entrance to? Uh, tom teed me up. I'm going gray feared um the morally dubious mercenary ones who Uh, their deal is add one to the wound's characteristic of friendly gray feared heroes that do not have a mount In addition, you can pick two additional artifacts of power and for me What that means is the rest of the list is going to focus on objective play and then i'm going to arm to the teeth of couple of cruise missiles of berserkers and other heroes and play the game with my opponent of can you take these objectives and also Try to play a defensive game in your back line against these things right try to zone me out when it's just a third You know that kind of stuff. Um That's what i'm here for because as long as I know how I have a number of like real threats in my pocket That I can put on the table at any time And they're low cost investment. I don't care if they die, but they put my opponent on tilt enough to Make mistakes. Yep. Yeah, I mean gray feared is the cash rules everything around me uh Force because yeah, like we already just talked about how there is a good number of good artifacts Getting two extra artifacts is a lot of extra artifacts on that list Especially in a world where you have heroes who aren't leaders The first list I wrote was a seven foot hero gray feared list. Yeah, that was my thing too. Yeah Uh, obviously i'm the last one to arrive surprise surprise and I've been grudgingly asking to join And if i'm gonna join I want the one with all the puppies. So i'm going loft near, um, you know It it does exactly what it does for all the monster stuff Which is add two to the wounds characteristic of friendly loft near magma draught units, which actually makes them have It's like quite a bit of wounds by the by these aren't small wound people um And in addition up to three loft near magma draught units in your army can be given a different mount trade So you can have which is all the mount which is all the all the mount rates I hope you liked those three. Those are what you get Yes, correct. So, um, but it pushes all of your magma draughts up to 18 wounds It does that's what i'm saying. It's not a small number of wounds like they started 16 This isn't stagadons getting plus two where they start at 10 and go to 12 or something Yes, like this is 16 going to 18 it ain't small And and like and you can run, you know, like the big thing you could run a six mag army Right because you can run, uh, the three battle line suns who the suns are all super fighty like And so I i'm a big fan of loft near like I think that there's a lot of heat there. I don't know that I would ever run six I think I would run three um Yeah, I think it's easy to fall into the trap of like just because you can do something this means Yeah, I think the right army there is one of each like a father a son and a smiter and then And then a holy smiter a father son and holy smiter and then we'll and then a bunch of like bodies for objective play and support heroes show yeah Do lodges apply to the entire army? Yes, as long as whatever's in the army matches whatever's going on here, right so like With with voss dark tom's pick. It's only vulcite berserkers who are getting this bonus, right? But yes, all of your vulcite berserkers will get it Now but also keep in mind. Oh, sorry. Go ahead No, I don't please go for it. I was just gonna say keep in mind that they The lodges affect everything in your army. That's not an ally even though there is a command trait that lets you be an ally for a turn That's only for the allegiance ability with the urg old So this it is a separate thing, but yes, it's army-wide Yeah, and the only time the only the only Unit that has a keyword associated with it is the underworld warband, which are voss dark Which again one of like all the models that aren't the hero in that voss dark are vulcite berserkers So they would get the plus one to hit and shard or hit and Uh Now we have to talk about the elephant in the room Uh, which is that oh how the mighty have fallen welcome my friends to the you were good in the previous In the instance of this book tax Take that hermdar You were the default choice for 99% of I don't understand What what is this? No, what what is it? Never heard of it. Yeah, never heard of it. Uh, what a non ability. This is just ridiculous It's So bad. It's hilarious. I love when these things happen when they swing the pendulum so far to the other side Like never be the best sub faction in an addition Because when the addition rolls over and you get your new book, you are instantly the worst like By a country mile You are the worst Yeah, keep your head low embrace mediocrity. Yeah, this is like all good lessons. They're so terrible Um, what was the why can't I think of it? Who were the storm cast double shooters in the previous? Um Thank you. Anvil's the helden hammer. The name was would not be something in my head. Um It's we should just call this being anvil'd like you got an anvil dropped on you or something like that because it's this That's the swing, right? That's the the example from best to worst. It's just all the way across. Okay Cool All right. Now the part of the show that I hate Uh, okay. Now is the part about baking muffins. So Um grand strategies and battle tactics Um, we're gonna get through this quickly. So they're a narrative Sure. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that the lead here Tom m said petrofex the lead is totally screwed. Oh, you're not wrong, buddy. That's gonna be Horrible whenever that new book comes out. It will be like the worst ability Exactly that they will get the same ability as herm dart where they will have battle shock losses in an army That's how bad it'll be. Yeah, okay. Plus one bravery Right Okay Here we go the thing about these grand strategies and battle tactics is That like most of these the grand strategies are underwhelming and the battle tactics are Silly, but things you will keep in your pocket when you can basically get them for free So the standard rules of all of these apply. They shouldn't be written. They shouldn't be in these books Please stop. I'm gonna keep saying this. I don't care Call me plenty the elder over here, but carthage must be destroyed um the Guarded lineage when the battle ends you complete this grand strategy if there is one friendly auric rune father and One or more friendly auric rune sons on the battlefield No, just no. Okay. Um, great. Why or or or a battle line unit? Like there's Whatever. All right, um Or how about your monsters since they're both monsters. How about you just take the one that's like Monsters are alive. Yes. Yeah Uh defend the lodge when the battle ends you complete this grand strategy If there are no enemy units wholly within your territory Never ever ever would you take this because you never know what's going to happen. You're not a highly mobile army People have drops and teleports. Yeah Oath takers and skull breakers, uh the old name for what used to be the good hermdar ability When the battle ends you complete this grand strategy If you completed at least four battle tactics and every battle tactic you completed this battle Was from the oaths of battle list on page 75 Holy moses that is hard. That is the best name Most unlikely to be completed. Yes. One of the hardest grand strategies. I've ever seen in print. That is shocking That's like move walk backwards on one foot. Cool And masters the forge when the battle ends you complete this grand strategy. If there are any invocations under your command on the battlefield like Okay, sure. You can almost guarantee that with the rune wall because you just summon it and then it stays Just leave it Yep All right, so whatever Uh battle tactics, um Look they are what they are. I don't want to read all these kill more things. They're just kill more Yeah, I mean like well, they're not all kill more things But a lot of them are the only thing I'll say the only thing I want to read on this list There's two things I want to read on this list is the awesome one There's there's actually two I want to read on this list. I'm not I'm going to ignore the rest I'm sorry, but here we go. There's two worth talking about one Settle a grudge because it's funny and it plays into the grudge thing and it's narratively cute And I appreciate it. I appreciate when they write this kind of stuff in Each time a friendly unit is destroyed by wounds caused by an attack made by an attack Make a note of the enemy unit that made that attack in a book of grudges if you wish When you pick this battle tactic pick one of those enemy units that is still in the battlefield You complete this tactic if that unit is destroyed. It's cute. I like it. It's fun. It's flavorful It will be an autocomplete on the turn you choose to activate it like you're going to lose something This is like your round four or five You're just going to do it when the unit that like when the unit of long strikes that shot your dudes is down to One long strike guy and you know, you're going to go kill that dude or whatever, right? That's that's what you'll do and you've already used broken ranks or everything else. Yep the Hilarious one I want to talk about is an igno an ignominious death Them openly admitting that the axes are terrible in the form of a battle tactic Like this is I've never seen a battle tactic. That's a self-own Yeah, and that's what that's making fun of the army. Yes. It's literally making fun of their own rules Pick one enemy hero you complete this tactic that if the sorry you complete this tactic if that enemy hero Is slain by wounds caused by an attack made with a fire steel throwing axe this turn. Holy crap You should like this should I don't know what to do here If I love it completes this. Oh, yeah I almost feel like they deserve some kind of special award at the tournament Like just completing this battle tactic should qualify you in one round In one of 25 rounds if you during a tournament if you get this completed I feel like you've earned something Yeah, so I think I'm taking firesliders to Um So I have a narrative event coming up for ren 4 I think I'm going to take firesliders to it and it's one of my goals is going to be to kill Ain't nobody has death off So I'm going to aim because it's a four because it's it's a triumphant treachery So it's like four players at a table. Oh, yeah, sure Um, and I'm going to try every game To get to get it once Sure I say and I say Good luck Um, yeah, now they don't actually use like at the event. They don't actually use battle tactics That doesn't matter to me. I'm still gonna try to do it irrelevant Yep um Yeah, so there we go. I mean the rest of these is is pretty much what you would expect them to be There are more variations on the base ones. I guess Okay, cool Um It's that turn your whole army throws axes at a skink priest. Yeah, exactly like get him Get that four wound goblin with a six out save. We're gonna get him. Get him. Get him sweep the leg All right, let's get into the war scrolls. My goodness. This is a long show. All right We're gonna move through the war scroll somewhat quickly. Fortunately, there's not a huge number of them We'll give them there. Only heroes Yes So let's talk about the orc rune father on magma droth This is sort of the new this this will give us a lot of the new format for the magma droth as well because a lot of these Abilities are going to carry over um, so move 12 on a diminishing profile for monsters um the Uh Wound table has been moved up as we would expect to the standard four tiers not like it used to be So like as we see these books roll we go to the four tier wound chart Which is a good quality of life change 16 wounds four up save eight bravery. So again is much higher like is solid amount of wounds at 16 wounds The four up save was said to me. Yeah, sure. I mean, that's that's the thing here, right right You wanted a three Yeah, I wanted a three. Yeah, sure. I mean every hero wants like that and the breath Of course not in the breath weapon are the two things that felt like misses to me for these Yeah, which I think is worth talking about. So obviously he's got his little throwing axle because everybody carries little axes Um, and then he has his roaring fire. By the way By the way, it's rend one on him. Yeah, it is. Yes. He's got a really sharpened it up more Yeah, he's really good with that. He's he's up in the air. It's more. He's got more Sort of leverage momentum angle something. He's the one that grows last sure We had to get that. Yeah, exactly. Come on That's X. Bam Okay, the roaring fire stream as we mentioned It's a tax characteristic is equal to the number of models in the target unit up to a maximum of 10 So like just reading that what you're talking about is an attack that hits on it To if he's unwounded wounds on a three nag one rend one damage, right Now, obviously if you only have one attack, that is not that impressive And that's what happens when you target heroes or other things like that Now he has this other rule that I also hate just because I hate mental tracking stuff like this, uh, wherever shoe is at Uh, this is this is the exact kind of thing that shoe I think would despise Yes, if you watch this shoe and you do like this rule, please tell me But this is the kind of thing that I think he hates and I hate too In addition at the end of your shooting phase if this unit did not make an attack with its roaring fire stream You can say that an inferno is raging inside if an inferno is raging inside Improved the rend characteristic of its roaring fire stream by two after the next attack Uh by two so the next time it does it's now rend three instead of rend one. So cool stuff After the next attack is made with this unit's roaring fire stream. It is no longer raging inside. So there you go So if he if he alternates his shooting to every other Turn or something like that Um Then he can go to rend three Okay Even even at full potential like 10 attacks It's it's okay It's okay Um Like that's that's it in the best possible circumstances of like 10 rend three attacks It rises to the level of okay because it is a nine inch range thing I would just been happy with the salamander breath They're just literally Paced what it says on salamanders. Yes, it's they have a better attack. Yeah, the smaller magma dross. Yes The other children of vulgar tricks or dragon breath weapons. I would take the dragon breath weapon, too That's the last thing we need more of um Okay Melee he's got his big grand axe You know four attacks three and three is neg one three damage as you mentioned already That's the challenge here is the rend one, but there are ways to mitigate that as we've discussed And then the magma droth itself is obviously his mount that uh, I just mean for rules purposes It's a mount. So these two attacks are mount attacks He has the blazing maw three attacks on fours twos neg two d three damage and the claws and horns Which is six attacks if he's unwounded three threes neg one two damage So, you know, as you mentioned, there's lots of ways to play with the the damage here The the profile of this I think if you looked at him straight he's like Okay on those sets. Yeah But when you think about um, you can get him double piling in Yeah, all the different ways you mentioned like here's the double attacks. Here's the double piling in here's Here's a lot of different things we could do plus one rend and plus one damage right making him Making him rend two damage four It's just there's options here. Well, and he can take the trait so that when he stops He does a d three plus three mortals. Yeah Like before the fight starts He could activate the heroic action to be getting the enhanced rune of whatever turn you're on so like plus one to hit and plus one To uh, his attacks characteristic, right? So blazing maw would have moved a rend four two and rend four as well Oh, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, I mean blazing maw would be rend four great Grand acts would be rend four and the claws would be rend three Yeah, if you're you're saying if you gave him if you did the red trick with the wind Yeah, sure. Yep, or you could watch your friends block of plague bears evaporate if you give them the no ward save one On all those multi wound weapons. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely um, so You know like again, this guy can become a really scary threat Um, we should also just very quickly mention his lord of the lodge ability because it is worth talking about Because he has another way we'll see it again and again. Yeah, I used to be a command ability Almost kind of for like type of thing. Yeah, right Once for battle at the start of your combat phase you can pick one friendly unit on the battlefield with this ability to unleash the wrath of grim near If you do so until the end of that phase add one to the attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly fire slayer units while they're holy within 12 Uh of that unit, which of course is also including him. So again more Ways to get more attacks more damage more everything because then if he uses that and then he double has the Command rate to double pile in it's actually going to end up being a You know one two three four five six extra attacks just from that ability alone, right that kind of thing. So yeah It should be noted noted by the way that the way that this is worded um Even if you have multiple rune fathers spread across your army, you only get to trigger this ability once ever Um Yeah, that's a good question. Okay, because once for rattle you pick one friendly unit. Yeah, I understand Yep. Yeah, and this wording is actually I believe slightly different from the idk wording um But that also prompted a lot of discussion last week as to how these things are working. Yeah, right? Yeah um And so Yeah, it's like this. I don't like this new wording They need to stop using this wording because it is very confusing Like regardless of of how we'd read it this this and the idk achillian king ability are both going to need FAQs Because casual people who just kind of read this over would say, okay cool each, you know Or a person I have can do this Yep, once per game Like that's the easy read of this Hmm. Okay And I agree And like this has slightly different word. That's how I wanted to work, but it runs into the same problem Right. Okay. That's how I wanted to work. Sure, but you can easily see how somebody could interpret that differently Right. No, I'm picking a different guy and activating is once per battle ability because Like every other ability in the game that has once per battle is not doesn't create mutually exclusive, right? Right, right. Um So yes, exactly kuhl. There's there's that weird difference, right? That's happening here of this unit at any rate. They're they're both gonna need an FAQ Stop writing it like this if you want to make it so you can say however many of these guys you have You get to do this thing once Okay, then write that Yep, just write that game language say like this is just off the top of my head It's probably so wrong but like once per battle at the start of your combat phase Right one guy can do all this blah blah blah blah blah and then the last sentence you make is Once this ability has been activated on any Once this ability has been used it may not be used again by any block Right by any other Yes, yeah, like put something like that on the end make it super duper clear Like there's no reason for that. There's no reason for this confusion Okay, cool, right Oh, we should say their points too. Sorry And he takes back mortals by the way in melee. So still as the still as the volcanic blood Yeah, yep So he's worth eight mortals or nine if he's got the plus two two wounds Uh, assuming he goes from life to death at some point and isn't healed Uh, all right. So this dude the rune father is 360 points. I think perfectly usable Dude slaps for 360. Yeah Mm-hmm. Yep Okay, absolutely oric rune sun Uh, many of the same abilities Right still has the fire stream still has the tail Still has the volcanic blood all that kind of thing same profile on the The the thing itself the night itself. Yep. Um, okay uh What what's tom Explain to us the difference for the rune sun for everybody like obviously he has this buying for glory and slightly different weapon options So what's your what's your why do you like this guy? Where is he useful? Uh, in general, I like him the least of the three. Um, and but I mean, I still think he's useful I like the ancestral war axe as my weapon Um five five attacks threes and threes neg one rend two damage um So he has one more attack One less damage Uh, but the key is is if he's target sponsors and throws a six to hit, uh, the wound becomes mortal wounds Uh, and the attack sequence ends and so he has the ability to really output some mortals Um, I think that the worm slayer javelin is still a trap Hmm So that's where I'm at Okay, I'd agree with that and we should also state that the rune son who's 320 points He is that he is the cheapest of your your magma druth writers. Um, this is the one that becomes battle line in Yes, yeah, yes, like which he's perfectly acceptable for battle line But if I'm having to pick between him and the father, I'm probably gonna pick the father I don't know like it's tough because the father has a better base attack um, but Uh for 20, but like if you can't reuse the multi attack bubble The bonus attack bubble then this guy is a better like default Extra like second pick is what I would say For for for glory. Yeah, it's nice to have that option against monsters. There's a lot of scary monsters in the meta, right? Yeah, okay And then finally, uh in our magma boys, uh We've got the rune smita or mag smiter as you called him earlier as all the cool kids Call him again. You have a mag a mag father a mag son and a mag smiter, right? And so again, you've got the fire stream. You've got the tail. You've got the volcanic blood This guy's special thing is runic empowerment Which is rare No, his special thing is not runic empowerment It's different than the other two is what I'm saying. That's his special thing is curse He's a priest And so the key the key with him is he's the number one curse bearer That's fine. I was going to talk about this unique Don't stop you're wasting your time with the unique prayer and plus That's bs don't waste your time with any of that his unique ability is called curse And he's going to run he's going to run into combat You know run out 12 inches and then curse somebody at eight inches the next turn. That's what he's going to do Yeah, uh, I mean his his default prayer is not bad. I just want to say that like he does have a decent range plus one to wound And he's going to be your carer of the mag helm too like the the plus one to wound bubble for weapons And so you're going to equip him with that to support the father and the son And then you're going to also use curse because of course you are Yeah, I mean it yes, you have a lot of powerful priests. This is one of them He's tough enough that he'll live and can be up in the You know near enough to the mix to start cursing people and curse is very scary. So no, it's it's a perfectly viable Especially when there's hand act is throwing around in Suddenly that's oh suddenly you're completing an ignominious death You curse that hero and then all those a laxes Start coming up. This is uh, this is 30 axes on average. I will do five mortal wounds Yeah, I mean look I've been whenever I I play my scaven. I live and die by that curse, baby I've got I got little priests running around just trying to make it happen because of the way I'm doing work It's how we it's how we get the work done. We don't have damage otherwise. So I get it Okay Correct rune sons do they lose bet him off. I don't know if they lose leader Um But when they become battle line, I think it's the key that they lose all other ones and become just battle line Well, if that's the case interestingly you can throw them in um the the At a d6 movement But the town because uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they would yeah, they would yes, they're not behemoth Leaders anymore. Well, no No, because they have to be behemoths in order to be in there. So I guess that wouldn't work. Yeah. Oh, you're talking alpha beast back I thought you're talking about other They still have to be behemoths That's the problem if you turn battle lines into into if you turn behemoths into battle lines They can't go an alpha beast back anymore. Yeah Because they key that to behemoth instead of to uh, Like yeah monster or something Anyways, um Fajul grim near and his chosen axis tom is this thing worth caring about? No Cool dug anything you like anything you care about with this guy No, no, he doesn't even he doesn't even get a good the the good Brune father bubble. So he's a rune father without the actual ability that you want Cool, let's move on. Uh, I like when underwent underworlds war bands are skippable. I'm fine with it. It's it's fine Well, I mean, let's find a book with only four war scrolls all together or whatever the heck we got here Let's be very clear. Like, you know how this is embarrassing You know how I said that a midwest meltdowns is doing like a free like, uh underworlds warband. Yeah Um, I'm looking at taking fire slayers for that. And if I do not taking this warband you're taking Yeah, I'm taking the ko one because I'm gonna throw them them in a frigate with five thunders. Um But like that's how bad this is is I look at it and I'm be like, uh, no, I don't want these guys free I'd rather a different free one. Yeah, sure in the army that they actually benefit all that from all the abilities for I agree with noops who said fajul is a source of good Is a good source of nice looking minis. They are some of the better-looking minis out of the range All of my mags I converted converted using the visual in his uh, chosen axis. Yeah. Oh, cool. Uh, all right Uh oric rune father, uh on foot so I love this dude Now we've got a four move. He's just got to move a four tom. Did you notice that it's not four inches? He just moves four. We don't know what the units are Could be anything little did you know it's four feet? Yeah, exactly. Well, they're in the U.K. so it's meters What's the isn't there a name for the distance between the sun and the earth Like isn't there a name for that measure of distance like an au or something? I'm pretty sure that's an actual measure of distance I don't know. I say he moves four of those So anywhere got it anyway. Yes, they forgot the little interest symbol, which is a funny joke Okay, four inch move six wounds four up save eight bravery He also has the make one run to fire steel axe He does. Yes. Well all the rune fathers keep them axes sharp, buddy As the rune sons, it's very instilled. It's a family legacy of sharpening your it's actually The heroes for those that have not caught this. Yeah Uh, the important part about these guys that we need to discuss So he does still have the big great axe like we talked about earlier. Yeah Uh-huh But the important part that we need to bring in with Uh Excellent. Yes. I was right an astronomical unit. Boom. All right. I remembered a thing God, it's been a long time since I learned that fact. I'm very happy with that Uh, at any rate. Yes, he moves four au's Deal with it FAQ it proved to me otherwise Okay Uh, what's important about these guys that we're going to deal with here is the red new Yeah, yeah So I'm just gonna just gonna kind of walk everybody through the red new thing here Uh At the start of the first battle round before determining who has the first turn You can pick one friendly or a hearth guard Or hearth guard berserkers unit on the battlefield not vulcites That's relevant. That's the important part or if you took that particular oath of grim earth berserker Right. Yes. That'd be the third option sneakily Um That is not another Units ret new to be this unit's ret new in other words. You can't double dip They there's no there's no side. There's no, uh, there's no doing sort of Pick up work here for multiple different leaders. Okay Royal ret new before you allocate a wound or mortal wound To this by the way, this makes me so angry before you allocate a wound or a mortal wound To this unit instead of making a ward roll Uh For a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to this unit If the if this unit is within three inches of its ret new you can roll it die on a one to two It still applies to them on a three plus. It's allocated to the unit's ret new If the ret new has a ward you can make a world before allocating that wound or mortal wound to it They they codified they codified Bodyguard ward saves here. Yes, I give up I give up The design team was like events events Yeah, let's see if we can have them do like an aneurysm on air. Yes Like we literally did the lead you to the first print show where we walked forever through this entire argument By the way, that's still not settled because it doesn't have updated text But now we we wrote the cruel boys rule Where in the cruel boys? It says instead of making a ward roll. Okay, got it. Cool. I don't get it on my main guy with it Understood You can send it over to this other unit that unit may not negate this role And it may may not negate this wound, right? That's how the cruel boys thing is written. Yeah. Yeah, and they set this precedent very clearly One roll That's what we want stop rolling a million dice to negate wounds Which is how the game should work Nope And then they went nah The kings of ward saves are back And I just I hate it so much I hate so much. I love it. Um, I love it Oh, the other thing I'll mention is that they have the the other thing the retinue is doing That's not the only thing the retinue does is absorb. They these Leaders also Do the whole bring their unit with them? When they fight much like we saw with the Plague bearers and the like plague leader guy or the the special blight king heroes and the blight king dudes this new thing They're doing where it's like the Underpowered foot hero if they fight they get a bring their their buddies with them to all fight. Yeah, I mean it's interesting because in Gray fear this guy is seven wounds with three up board Like passing off like three up body guard that's passing off. I got you Um to hearth guard berserkers likely that are gonna four up ward it Yep Like yeah, what a great experience These dudes are going to be difficult to remove And like the most egregious thing and we'll get to this with the battlesmith is that like against shooting um You're gonna be able to rally your bodies back Mm-hmm Sure, and so there's a good shot that you will actually get across the table with your hero and their retinue. Yep like Hey, well once made a table on a stream where you had bodyguard pluses and then like a word and it was like six up man five up good four up great three plus Insane two plus stupid shouldn't exist. Okay on bodyguarding Because it just ends up like being a super ward save now. I have less of a problem with occasionally doing that trick All right If the unit you pass to you're you're still getting some kind of damage on Yeah, but the fact that you can just pass it to more guys that then negate 50 percent more of the here of the wounds It's just like come on man What are we doing here? How many okay? I'm gonna do some damage to you and then I'll leave and get a sandwich Well, you roll all the dice over and over again until I do no damage. How does that work? Sounds and and and you're gonna rally them. So you're gonna put those models back Yeah, so good stuff Um, and he also has the lord of the lodge thing. All right, so this is a plan exactly how I like to play sure The orc rune son one less bravery one less wounds. Oh by the way, the rune father Uh is 125 points the rune son is 80 80 yeah, borgon basement rune sons Hey, he's trying to drop some paternity uh money. He's he's owing people. He's like, oh, yeah, just send all the boys out It'd be great. Yeah exactly Um, and yes I'm actually not hot on the rune son. I know a lot of people are Like at 80 points, I look at that and I'm like, mm for 25 more I could have a grip exactly No, that's that is the problem. I I don't disagree with you I look at the two of them. I'm like, yeah, I'm going for that grim wrath And that grim wrath did not take in a leader spot right right Yep Agreed Okay, let's keep going Uh the orc rune master and rune smiter. So welcome to priest town Uh as tom earlier mentioned, these are our two primary priest as an aside as an aside Because of where the rune son is priced You could reasonably have a 10 man unit of hearth guard berserkers And a rune son allied in to another force. Sure. Yeah And that and they still maintain the retinue body guard. They'll still body guard him. Yeah Yeah, so it's a really interesting combo like Of pieces that you can still bring to the table So it's um and as as allies that like that's a nice little like I appreciate the pointing Like the points where they are because that makes that a very real possibility Yeah That's a good point. So kudos design team and and testers Uh orc rune masters 125 oric rune smiter is 135 Again very similar stats, but six wounds on the rune master five wounds on the rune smiter I love that rune master Yeah, and I assume we all love the same thing about the rune master Uh Well, which is like all fresh. He's he's good He's he's actually good Because he gets all the prayers which it which solves the problem you mentioned earlier, right? Because the prayers are actually quite a versatile tool and suddenly getting all of them So you like you can still only pray once because you can only chant once. That's just a generic rule But it then gives you the right tool for the right job at the right moment Yep Yep And then, you know wise counsel At the start of your hero phase if your general is within three inches Of any friendly oric rune masters you receive one command point, which by the way, if he is your general then he's always within Three inches of himself. Yeah And so you just get a bonus command point if you make him your general Which is which is an interesting thing Especially because remember this is the guy who can double strike runes Yeah, right, right or explode into an endless spell or Your choice Your choice I made tom slap his forehead. That was mission accomplished. Yeah, I mean the reality is like I generally prefer abilities that don't force me to lose strategic key pieces in order to actually see real But it is a hot swap. It's a hot potatoes. You know, it trains you Look for getting one model for one model tom. What's the difference? Okay, exactly Freaking models on top of models, man. I hear this. This is your your standard forge attendant as well Yep So you're gonna like you want one of these guys in almost every army because they're gonna stand by your forge And they're a great carrier by the way of that brazier Because they're gonna be sitting in that back field in that double range Just push that that that invocation way out there What by the way what I don't know because we never ruled on like what it means for something to be a range Uh, they their double range may actually make let you shoot 48 inches on the shooter spell too I thought they effect you that but maybe that effect you disappeared because it did it disappeared in the last one And so like you may be able to get a 48 inch shot off of so like it that that brazier may actually work for all The invocations in different ways very well. Cool. Give you a last cannon and age of sigmar. Yeah, sure. Absolutely We I mean clearly they'll probably faq at the same way again So I wouldn't bank on it But it it'll it moves the question and then the rune smiter is still the rune smiter He's doing what you think he's doing which is magma tunnelling like that's why you took this guy in the army Um, he is still a priest. He could still have cursed. He can't curse when he pops But he could if he lives or you double turn he could then move forward and curse I mean, yeah, you're gonna take curse on him as your secondary prayer He still couldn't even on the devil. Sorry. He couldn't move up because he because it's in the here Like no, but what you can do is you can set up in such a way that hopefully when on the charge They pile in into your mind. There we go. Yes, correct. That's said when it rolls back to your turn you can curse him Yeah, there we go Okay, um, yeah, he's fine. I mean he's a tunneller. He's he's a big mobility piece. That's why you have him in lists It's not it's not a great mystery Right, like you're an army of four inch moving people and this gives you an ambush So yeah, and like to be fair like I actually like him tunnelling Uh dual axe volkites Like that's a really interesting pair to me like before His he I would I would I would pair him with oryx shooters Like 10 oryx shooters to pop up and shoot something off the table That's not possible anymore. No, so um, I like him as a like a volkite delivery system and actually like I started with 10 volkite Double axe guys for 170. I I'm really hot on 20 for 340 even though like all of them aren't going to get into combat They're just not that's so much meat. Yeah, it's just a big old like piles of meat have their own value Like that's so much meat that like you can like go into like a really tough target Charge and then fire off your like death pile on on pilot and death And so even though you like even though not everybody can get into combat You can trust that they're going to remove a bunch of models and that means you can pile in um Potentially uh with others or something. I don't know. Um, sure. Yeah All right Yeah, I mean if you pull your casualties cleverly, right? Okay, so now we get to our totem team team totem So the flame keeper and the battle smith. I love how these are just divided into pairs all these heroes, right? It's just like Just all these heroes Um, the flame keeper is our new guy uh Doug Is this the best looking fire slayer? The flame keeper it it is the closed helmet is um It's doing a lot of work, right? Yeah, it's carrying the faction yeah I mean it's It's literally the rune smiter He that closed helmet makes all the difference my friend Yeah, in a world of everyone wearing the same loincloth a helmet is a Way to stand out I I understand that I hear that but like he literally has a flaming latch axe Yep And is holding something in the air Uh, he does have a triple mohawk, which does set him apart I I would never notice that I would notice the face mask Like we got the man in the iron mask over here. Okay. I look at faces You know like because that's what humans are supposed to do. All right so, uh, this is the new guy obviously that came with uh was introduced in the box set and You know, I mean the key with him is As things as your troops die He builds up a bonus and then he can pass out that bonus for You know stuff Yeah, okay, which is most often going to manifest as plus one to damage for their melee weapons Yeah Yeah I mean dug, you know, you mentioned earlier About the like part of the joke of getting the the infernoff for the guy was it's like there is something to be said For having like a refund like a rebate Right on your on your purchase and this guy gives you a rebate on your purchases of your troops Right. Oh, you lost some things but here's here's a rebate It it does but it it's each time a friendly fireslayer So what what it's 12 wounds worth of dudes have to die before you get to do this Uh 10 Because you start with the dice at one base. Oh, that's right. Yes. Okay. Uh, and so yeah So you lose five dice the key is is you have to lose five guys So it's half of a Volkite unit Right. Okay Because that's what you want. You don't want to lose hergar berserkers. Of course. Yeah, right So you're like the key is is you're trying to sacrifice Volkites or potentially you could be using This is something we haven't talked about you could be using um Oryx's screens Yes Um, and if they're your screens, they're gonna die easily and charge this guy up Sure. Okay. I mean I like him. I I I love the idea of um Consolation prizes, you know, like play the corn. Yeah, absolutely. That's their entire allegiance ability, but uh, this is a cool little thing to inject especially if you're doing Not hermdar, but whatever like whatever you want to focus on large blocks of infantry Oh, yeah, I was not Volkite, Volkite or whatever the Volkite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's us again Yeah, I agree. I think he's best in like Volkite where you have these big blocks of infantry I will also state in my Volkite list. Sure. I will also state that um Grimnier's resolve isn't terrible Okay Um as one of your other options like the plus one damage clearly stands out as being truly amazing, of course But Grimnier's resolve where if that unit if the unit you you give this buff to which by the way that happens at the start of the Combat phase Yeah, you could pull a unit into combat with it. Correct. Yep. They can suddenly charge Which is interesting because it's at the start of the combat phase not your combat phase, right So an enemy like consider the world where an enemy charges you And but they charged your they did charge your chaff or something or whatever, right? And then you can suddenly say, okay. Hey these hearth guard over here Now you're in right like off turn response charging as we saw with Uh as we see with ironsons and as we see with um Um Like anything of it. Yeah big guy. What did you say his name? Glocken Glocken. Thank you. Yes. Good lord. Sorry. It's it's getting late. Um It's really powerful. It's super powerful because it turns fights where you would be losing into fights where you're winning It also if used on your turn can dodge things like unleash hell Yep. Yeah because you're charging in the combat phase not the charge phase hence they can't unleash on you So like any off phase charging is a really powerful ability So don't sleep on that one that one has the most like I like it that there's two different abilities One is just straight power Like hey, guess what bonus damage is super good Yeah, right But the other one is like this really strong tactical piece and it does play to that toolbox capability you were talking about tom Right. Well, if you've got these tools you use them at the right time you punch above your weight Well, no, like let me present another possibility. So grim near is wrath That's that's my fave of these the not the damage one, but yeah Yeah, which is like they they can fight basically they can frenzy fight, you know before they're removed Um, it's really interesting to me on polax hearth card Sure. Mm-hmm. The polax don't need the plus one damage characteristic. They're wanting mortals Right. Yep Um, and so that actually lets you get it, you know, like if you get into something that's meaty that's going to pick up models This lets you say it doesn't matter if you're picking up models. I'm coming in yep Okay, cool Uh, and then finally the battle smith Um, the battle smith is, you know, mr. Ward save guy Friendly firesay his units wholly within 12 have a ward of six up Okay In addition once for battle on your hero phase you can pick one friendly unit on the battlefield with this ability to plant its icon If you do so until the start of your next hero phase friendly firesay units wholly within 12 inches Of that unit have a ward of five up instead of six up And importantly he the battle smith Has so he's mr. Ward save like we get it. It's weaker than it was and i'm glad about that I don't like what's possible to save now. He's giving it to Six out four Yeah, sure, but Depending on how your what your units are running you may or the ruin you've struck you may already have this ability, right? That's the He can sometimes nonbow with other elements of this army But the funny part about him is that he needs an immediate FAQ I love it. I mean, I don't know if it needs to be immediate but go on Because as barred of the lodge, uh, if this unit issues the rally command You can return one slain model to the unit that receives the command for each four plus instead of each six What's missing The word fire slayers Looks great. I know. I know rally dragons back This is how we get games workshop to do stuff. We say hey, you can't change that until you release the flame keeper as its own kit separately rather It'll buy us a couple months of a year No, I mean what I'll say is this I I agree that you should not be able to rally dragons and Yeah, uh, other crazy units back and full manators and every other crazy thing in stonecast. Yes. Yeah I want to suggest that I think that this should be dewarden Keyworded. No, I would love that and not fire slayer keyword Honestly, tom, I would accept dewarden just fine Although I truly truly truly hate that world We would live in because what it would mean is probably A lot of iron drakes suddenly popping back into existence every round since those idiots never died Maybe I mean like yes I I think that it like it adds an interesting utility for the army like it speaks to something else greater that's happening Yeah, right and and the command trait did that as well Like I would love to be able to include one of these guys in my baroque ring army I think Like and and I think that that you know that speaks to that You know, they you still don't get the word say for everybody, but he could rally and I I love that I love that possibility. So I am hopeful. I'm I don't know that's gonna happen, but I am hopeful that they might consider um doing dewarden keyword instead of Instead of a fire slayer specifically, yeah, yeah, but it'll probably be fire slayers. Okay. I mean, you're right. You're right That's the conservative way to go about it. Yeah, sure. All right. Now. Let's talk about our uh, our slayer team so we went from uh, the sort of the the sort of runes The the the sort of general team to totem team to totem team to slayer team. Okay missile team. Yes Yes, so the grim rath berserker and the doom seeker We've talked a bunch about the grim rath berserker again You look at his basic profile four attacks Three threes neg two two damage it doesn't feel that impressive But when you realize that at the end of the combat phase if this unit's within three inches of an enemy unit And has fought no more than once on a two up he can fight again And if he's killed and he's fought no more than once he can fight before he's removed from play In other words, he's more or less always fighting twice is the idea And there's a million ways to ramp him up as we've talked about already and he's not a leader He's just a hero and he's 105 points He's great. He has his own special allegiance ability. Love him. Why does there are some armies? There are some armies that will run 10 of him. Yes I I repeat my question. So the grim rath berserker is 105 the doom seeker is 85 Why does the doom seeker exist? There are hyper corner cases where the doom seeker does more damage Okay, sure. I'm gonna say no I'm gonna I don't disagree that like that is mathematically possible what you've construed, but I agree with Doug Yes, no, I agree. It's just it is not like I just I'm never going to take the doom I'm still not going to take the doom seeker. He exists because he was in the silver tower box set And yeah, and they turned him into a clamshell and so they wanted to keep a place for him on the mantle Um, but the reality is is that he's just not that good, which is sad because I have like 12 of that model, so They were They're both grim rath berserkers And it's just like same stats one one more scroll These are just two different models that are both grim rath berserkers. We know you idiots are going to spam them Anyways, so now you could have two different models Here let me let me let like let me pitch another one, which is a grim rath Grim rath with runic war iron, right? So it's a grim rath that has the same profile. Sure Does that make sense? Like it has the the split profiles um Because I think that like the split profiles even though like It's not as good in some ways. It's also better. Like it receives a certain buffs better and stuff like that I The dooms figure the seeker should have the grim rath keyword Yeah, I just do not understand why this unit exists No, I would love him if he Not not at the retinue ability But if he could like pick another like up to five man unit of fire slayers pick an enemy And then you're all really good at killing that like make him a different kind of missile But as he is he just doesn't do anything unique or interesting the grim rath berserker is way better, right? Yeah, all right. Let's talk units Uh, we're finally to the troops That's not going to be the longest section because there's only four of them three of them technically three of them Uh, all right. Well, there's four of course goals. Uh, we're a curse guard. I'll leave your lies. There are three units I I think they're they're like they do do a good job of making them feel very separate It's actually some of the most separate things the game is the two are in the army by that logic tom There's only two units in all the flesh eater courts It's yeah everything's internal kit bash Uh, all right or a curse guard. These are your shooters. Okay They have the magnpikes. It's their shooty weapon They make two attacks at an 18 inch range on fours threes neg one one And every unmodified six to hit reduces the movement of their target by one inch To a maximum of half. That's their thing. That's what they do. Can I they can be a retinue? They are 170 points. Would you like to now compare them? No, no, they're 125 points. Oh, sorry What I say, I are sorry. They're 125 points. Yeah, I apologize Yeah, would you like to now compare them to bliss barbs? I mean Sure, bliss barbs are the closest things In comparison with them And when you do like a like a point per attack ratio bliss barbs are actually more offensive Than the root the auric hearth guard are like so if you let me let's do it this way If you take 10 auric hearth guard for 250 points 10 bliss barbs at 170 are going to be doing more damage and be more mobile I they're going to be more mobile. I do not think they do more damage 10 auric hearth guard make uh 20 20 shot 21 shots Sure, 10 bliss barbs make 21 shots. Right. They're both on force The same profile. It's the same profile Yeah, yeah, like that's the point is they're doing the same damage as a unit that is 80 points cheaper and they have worse mobility They do yes And they have one better save and two better bravery. I guess I'll give them that It's not nothing, but sure and they may end double the wounds Sure, and they end double the wounds. And so the problem is small difference I understand that but these guys aren't fulfilling an actual role and that's the problem Sure, okay Because these like this unit is not like it's supposed to be a shooty unit But it's actually not good damage and it's terrible on the unleash hell Because of the base four to hit which goes goes to fives The one function that this unit used to have it used to have two functions. Let's say that It used to bodyguard for heroes any hero. So you could protect your uh, your battle smiths. You could protect your priests You can't do that now, right? Um And but more importantly, I would still take this unit if they did double damage against monsters, which they used to Um, and now they don't and so they actually like the problem is is they do poor range damage And in fact, I would rather take Five thunderers as an ally at 135 points Then take five of these guys Because those thunders are going to have better damage the same wounds in better safe Yeah, I mean, I I think you'd take I don't know I I I'd probably take iron drakes. Is my honest answer Well at 170 for 10 maybe um like what I would say is this because the problem is is their shooting actually Is the same as these guys when they move. It's better when they don't move So these guys actually have better shooting than iron drakes if you're moving Um, I understand that but like you still have the ability to give them the necessary rend and they don't need to move very far Like iron drakes are gonna move to a point in this army because you're not gonna bridge them or something Like you normally would But after that, they're good. You could arcane helmet bridge, but yes, um I mean, what I would say is that you can't take an endless spell off of the arcane town Oh, can't you really because you don't you don't indicate the order of list building Interesting. It's why giants can't technically take endless spells even though people do it in their lists all the time Interesting. I did not realize that Um, so the the other critique that I have is that so the normally the original thing I would do with oracle or hearthguard is I would do like 10 of them In a with the rune smiter and I would deep strike and shoot And you know as like a distraction piece um, but the reality is is that's 300 and um, what's that 135 50, it's 385 points For something that's literally going to just going to explode with any when anything touches it, right? Because it's like 10 20 wounds on a phylobe safe. What's interesting is that um for less points You can take a frigate And five thunders Have better shooting in deep strike every round sure So like the one thing And still fit within the allies and be cheaper than then this one this one off Deep strike that can't reposition every turn Yeah, and so one of my critiques ultimately is that this like they just don't fulfill the purpose that they need to Which is artillery They're actually much closer in points to like raw damage and range to iron guts Than any other unit in the game You don't mean iron cuts. You mean our iron, uh lead belchers. Sorry. There you go. They're closer to lead belcher Just say if they were all good, so we'd all be sick of their phrases No, yeah, you're right. Uh, no, they're let they're lead belchers, which aren't just aren't good artillery units Sure, right like they they do some but but that's what they're closest to at their points and all that and so Like if people want to point to these guys and say that they're a good artillery, they're just not No, there is better pound for pound every day of the week. You're getting better artillery from Uh, your allies Yeah, my spell is better artillery than them Well, let's move on to a happier So like earth guard berserkers. Okay. It's really hard to take. Let me just say on the orcs At the end of the day There's just not really a reason to take them Yeah, that's fine Let's talk about zerkers. Okay, because if you liked earth guard berserkers before You probably still like earth guard berserkers now Because job was a good and I guess they decided this scroll was just fine Uh, yes and no they reduced the range From like having a unit or a hero within eight inches to holy within nine, which is a huge change What this means is that you can't deep strike with earth guard berserkers anymore and maintain your ward safe Which is huge Which is huge because otherwise they and the hero have to get into the charge. Yep The the rune spider It's a crazy powerful ability. It's and like it is the the trick is you're right It's harder to use on the offense and clearly what they wanted here was for the earth guard I mean, it's kind of in the name like earth guard guard Yeah, they they wanted this to be your anvil unit, right where it kind of moves forward Sets up on a point with the the fire status hero nearby and they're like, whoa Right and you can't shift them off the point Which by the way that that kind of thing they can still do quite well Because you know, they'll be on a five up save and a four up ward save, you know Assuming sig vaul doesn't come to town You know, they'll they'll last Right. Yeah. Yeah It's funny because there was a story where like one of the introductions of sig vaul in the stories He's just killing earth guard berserkers in He's just like I remember that one. I read that every every swing is killing one and mathematically That's accurate because he shears off their entire save and ignores their ward and they're as average damage as one of them So Um, so that's funny how narratively accurate that is Mm-hmm And they still could do mortals through the pole axes or they can have, you know, rend and multi damage through the products so Good unit and they can double tap with that rune to do mortal wounds on the Wound right on the wound roll. Yeah. Yeah, because this is a hit. Okay, because this is a hit. Yeah, exactly So, yeah, if you've got like the flame strike poleaxe and you spark your rune of searing in the attacks carry through So it's in addition start. Yes. Yeah, no, it's great Because what that means is if you spark the the searing rune, right? So you but let's just let's just keep this super simple and just use five of these guys because that's what you buy These dudes it right you buy these guys and in five of them for 160 points Cool So the units make an 11 attacks, right? Yeah Okay, so With that their poleaxes they make 11 attacks Theoretically you get about two mortals out of that and keep going and then you know two sixes Yeah Yeah, which is four mortals. Sorry. You're right. Yes. Absolutely right. Yeah, because it is two I'm sorry, which is four mortals out of yes two successes. Thank you, Tom. Good good clarification, right? Um, assuming you're still on threes to hit and you haven't pushed it in any way, right? You'll fall to about seven or eight hits. That's pretty average somewhere in that range Meaning you'll then get one more maybe two more mortals on the wound roll off of the rune So you're getting, you know, five to six mortal wounds on top of the the normal whatever else they get five So it's good Okay, yeah, I like zerkers are meant to be the anvil And when you run that math by the way on the poleaxes versus broad axes, it's about the same Sure, it very much depends on like what you're playing into what you expect to see army to army different ones will do differently Yeah, there's a reason to take both is my point. Yeah, I agree All right, let's talk about the great volkite divide Because now we officially have two separate scrolls. There has been a schism In the volkites. They've splintered off The the bladed slingshield berserkers they went to the door of the church. They nailed up their 95 theses on why Bladed slingshields are better and the true word of uh, grim near And uh, and the other ones were like, no, we're not we're not with that. There was a great divide Did you did you notice the wording change? on the slingshield berserkers Uh The uh The fact that you don't have to be within the range anymore for the slingshield. It's back to just throw They went back to the old wording So if you for some reason aren't idiot and has spent 480 points on 30 of these bastards Which is doable. These guys are 10 for 170 by the way, which is a good deal. It's a good day to be idiot On the slingshields, the slingshields are 160. Yeah, so 480 for 30 of them And you make a charge you're you're gonna if one guy ends within you know within an inch of I well like a five wound hero you can throw all 30 shields. They went back to the old crazy Super You know shield throwing version Yep, I love it. So you can still get your five mortals Mathematically average on the on the charge. Yes Which is funny So obviously these guys are meant to play two different roles, right clearly in their head. That's what they were thinking, right? Yes, um, your your fire steel handaxe guys are your you know, super offensive You put all this in the air quotes if you want, right? I don't care Their role is meant to be the hammer the berserkers are meant to be more of an anvil It's the easiest way I can say it or at least a tougher. Maybe it's more like an attrition Uh Anvil or hammer or something like that. I don't know that the sling shields have a weird role I'm not sure I totally know what it is, but they're a very different unit. I'll say that Yeah, they're more independent operator objective. They're they are your they are your deck chair setters. Yep That's okay. I like that. That's that's good. That's good, Tom Yeah, so the trick with the handaxe guys is obviously they're two attacks base They go to three attacks on the charge Right, and we talked about we built out some units of these earlier, right where we talk about if you're going hard Volkite, which is a doable strategy. I think then you're going to be in like Vostar You're going to be where they're on twos and twos when they charge with the threes threes you're going to have the The guy along who can give them an extra damage or make them charge off phase or whatever And then obviously both these units still have their berserk fury where they can once per battle fight even if they die They have death frenzy. Yep Yeah, so the difference is is that like they actually created two anvils into Like offensive units Yes Yeah, neither of these are true anvils neither the slingshields nor the hearth guard are like True anvils, but they both perform better on the kind of sit and like The hearth guard really just want to sit still the berserkers want to like hang back and then kind of Get and jump into the mix closely Well slingshields don't really slingshields just want to sit on an objective and they want you to leave them alone Sure Right, of course Charge late game where there are five mortal wounds really or not five more I'm sorry that the unit 30 would be insane as a deck chair sitter Where there are a couple mortal wounds can matter. That's what I'm trying to say Well, and yes, and like there are going to be 20 wounds 10 dudes as 20 wounds on a four up save sitting on an objective Like so those guys are tough to shift, right? Just because they can all out defend themselves And like if you like let's say you put the runic wall near them, you can give them a ward save So they're still independent operating and they don't need hero support. Yeah There are a few ways to get a ward save for them in this Yes, yeah And so I like I think that there's a real difference like wherever the main heat is that's where you want to have your hearth card And then you're going to throw these the slingshield guys on other objectives Or I think there's also a case to be made to use these guys as your chaft lines that you move forward. Sure And basically like they hit they take the hit you lose a handful of models even against the worst fights by the way, right? Yeah, um, and then you retreat them out And rally them back up like I think that like I think you're getting your your your guy looking for death Yes, yes, it's your rune scavenger. So he's charging his battery. Yes So I think that there are some different functions, right? Like I think there are some different functions that these different things play What you don't have in the army at all is mobility You have zero mobility units. You have zero true artillery units, right? All right, let's let's end off here on endless spells and the pizza oven and then we'll call it a night Uh, so the molten infernoth Uh Summon with a prayer that has an answer value of four and a range of 12 inches Remember if you do happen to take that extra magic item that we talked about you can double that to 24 Fans are set up the holy the invocation holy within range and visible to the chanter More than one inch from all models terrain features and other invocations and endless spells His ability is burning tide after this invocation is set up The commanding player can immediately move it up to 2d 6 inches In addition at the start of each of their subsequent hero phases if this invocation is still in the battlefield The commanding player can move it up to 6 inches. So that's its move speed is 2d 6 And erupting inferno after this invocation has moved the commanding player rolls 12 dice for each unit Within three inches of it for each six that unit suffers one wound If the role to determine how far this invocation moved in this phase was a double That unit suffers d3 mortal wounds for each six instead of one And at the end of the phase the invocation is removed So like like we've seen the invocations self-remove if they pop off into their big effect Yes, yeah, and you don't have to worry about hitting your own people. It doesn't burden them No, I like I like the guy like I've tried he's tough to include 70 points. Um, you can get him for free with a certain I will convince you of this 70 points or zero points Tom just said um it's But I like I'll say this. I like him. I don't like the fact of having to potentially roll 72 dice Sure. Yeah, it's he makes you roll a lot of dice Because you roll 12 per unit. Yep within three, which uh, he has a real big base by the way He's on a decent size base. Yeah He's a boy He is a thick boy So there is a sense in which like even like even if you can move over in invocations by the way Um getting over this guy and not being on his base is really kind of tough Sure. Um, and so there's a very like if you back him up and put your models behind him You can functionally make him impassable because they can't actually Like get to your guys and can't charge Sure Depending on how the terrain and other things work speaking of blocking movement Let's talk about the rudic firewall. Uh, also continuing a trend from last week where we were talking about stopping people up with horrible horrible summoned boats Uh, I don't know how closely you noticed that one Tom But yes, you can now just really screw people over by summoning free boats that can block off movement, which is Great. I'm so glad that's back. I was thinking that was missing from the game um So roaring rune fire models cannot move across or through this invocation unless they have the excuse me magma drawth keyword or can fly Can sons of bad men walk over these it's a good question They're rule says yes. This rule says no FAQ says who knows their their rules says they can move over models their rule doesn't say they ignore other rules I understand that but if they're ignoring this then they're ignoring the rules on this too No, they're ignoring the physical model. They're not ignoring the rules on the wash bowl I get it. I get where you're coming from again. The FAQ will say for sure Um, and then awaken runes at the start of each phase the commanding player can pick one friendly fireslayers unit Holy within 12 this invocation to draw upon its power if they do so the commanding player rules die on one through five They have a ward of six up till the end of that phase on a six that unit has a ward of four up until the end of that phase And this invocation is removed from play You know why I hate this I hate this because it's at the start of each phase and I've got to remember now at the start of Stupid phase to go wait you don't hold on you don't You don't if you don't want it to risk it leaving You just be like nah because it says you may do you you may pick sure you can pick you can't pick So in general like I'm not saying I would actually roll in every battle shock and movement and phase like that I'm saying I've got to remember to do it in the phase is where I wanted to do it. Yeah, sure And that's a lot of phases to roll through and both players turns like okay this unit. Oh, it's fine six up. Okay next And then we it's like I mean do we go to shooting hold on hold on wait. Hold on back it up It's your shooting. That's why I'm a big fan of tom's idea of just get the Thing that lets you double the range. It's 36 senses. Just chuck it forward. Don't even bother In there in their zone area and be like, yeah, you can't move your your guys through this area. Sorry, right? Okay Go page go page. Go. There we go. All right. The czar czar Gron flame spitter. Oh boy the name on this guy Uh This invocation is summoned with a prayer that has an answer value of three and a range of six inches. So Okay But I mean it has a super long range and if that also doubles then you really don't care Um, this is truly becomes the closest thing you have to artillery Uh, but you set up holy within range more than one inch from everything blah blah blah At the start of the commanding player shooting phase If there are any friendly fire slayers priests within six inches of this invocation The commanding player can pick one enemy unit within 24 inches of this invocation and roll 12 dice Add one to the roll if the unit has 10 or more models and two if they have 20 or more models So rarely will that ever happen in the current meta, but it's cool For each six plus that unit suffers one mortal wound if we go back into a I'll point out by the way That the flame spitter is 55. He's cheaper like the the firewall is they're both 55 points If we did end up back in a horde meta, this actually isn't a terrible invocation at all It does real damage and it's funny. It does more damage on average than an actual Five man of uh orcs. Yeah, Tonya is better artillery. Yeah On average does two mortals per shooting. Yeah Um, I mean and again if we end up in a world where you start seeing a lot more 10 and 20 man units You're going to get a lot more Mortals out of it, right? Like the closer you push to that magic six mortals is nice Woe to you Uh What are they uh luben f right? Yeah eat it sentinels. You can't shoot my invocation You can't kill the priest standing next to it, but hey, whatever details exactly Not not if i'm 48 inches away. No sure if that works. Yes Uh, and then finally the mat, which I don't think it does the magmaic battle forge The your everybody loves the pizza oven at the start of your hero phase So it's impassable. It's the thing that gets set up at your terrain and follows terrain rules blah blah blah Start of your hero phase you can pick one friendly fireslayers priest within six inches To control the magmaic energies if you do so you add one to chanting rolls for friendly fireslayers priests Within 18 inches of this terrain feature. So nice big range Nice plus one to chanting rolls everything you would want Um, it's great, uh, especially if you did take the item that lets you re-roll for invocations Yep, because now you're plus one and re-rolling which is super good It means you stand a you're there summon your dudes There's four ways by the way to get a six up word say Yep, oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, because you could pop the you could pop the pizza oven Yep, yeah And of course you could still blow the oven Uh once for battle at the start of your hero phase instead of using this train features molten blessing You can pick one friendly fireslayers priest and basically blow the whole thing up And if you do so, um If you do so until the start of your next hero phase friendly fireslayers units on the battlefield have a ward of six up But you can no longer use molten blessing. It's done. You burnt out the energy so You have two rounds of full army six upwards Sure. Yeah, yeah between the between striking the rune and spending forge. Yeah, so what I'll say is this and I've you know I've said this in other forums. I'll say it here now This get this army is going to be dependent upon how well you layer once per game abilities. Sure Are you triggering all the things you need to trigger in the right phases in the right order? If you are you're going to do well if you're not you're not going to do well Yeah, and there's a lot it's not just the runes like we mentioned and this But it's you know a lot of the good artifacts that we talked about have that some of the abilities on the scrolls are like that Right and your grim wrath oaths. Yep Lodges, uh, you're you're piling on death volkites. Yep Absolutely I completely agree with you tom that there is a lot of once per battle Do this thing and if you do that thing when the timing is correct This army will be very powerful if you do it when it's if you if you pop that night Yeah, you're you know, then you lose Vin Diesel gets you. That's what happens Uh, all right dug any final thoughts you want to share on fire slayers before we call it a night No, no, um, I I like them, um some of the I think it'll be one of those things that it's a rewarding book to get really good at Just like you guys were talking about as far as remembering things and like I think that will feel very good And we combine that with if you are a more narrative player the path of glory stuff where you're getting practice games in pretty regularly That's terrific, um What I liked about her overall was like I felt like More so than the last book I can actually see an interesting list where you focus on the prayers and the priests I didn't get that sense before I was I just saw a lot of stuff about hearthgard So as far as like taking a faction and just fleshing it out Cutting the fat and letting you explore all the things that are in its very limited toolbox I think it's a win. It's not a powerhouse, but it's uh, not trying to be Yeah, no, I I think it's one of the better bad like honest answer I think it's one of the better battle talents we've gotten in 3.0 and and Can we just acknowledge that they fixed one of the worst play experiences in the game? The Are you talking about this board stack inability to target nonsense or which which one of the bad fire slayers Yes, or the or the universal hermdar yeah like double piling in uh Double piling in uh fighting first nonsense fighting first nonsense, right? Yeah, like Wait while still keeping that ability in an interesting way with a good opportunity cost Like it not the fight twice, but the fight first, right? Like it was a design masterpiece With regard to like finding the right golden middle, you know, the right perfect temperature porridge um Like it's not and it's not a super broken battle tone Like it's not going to suddenly come out and start taking events But i'll say it can take events event sure. I think it'll give a good game and this is again I mean, I can't say it enough This is how battle tomes should be written because I agree with what you said Doug There's actually different like a lot of the stuff you might not have explored before In battle what might as well have been called battle tome hearth guard berserker Yeah, you actually can't explore now Right, there's actually reasons to have these other units in your list now. It's not perfect You know, I do think there's a challenge with oryx But between building in with other dwarf stuff Beyond like other dordan stuff between the fact that volkites have an interesting role now between having like killer magma droths Like there's still a lot more Stuff options going on here. That's why it was like my number one bullet like is still good options Definitely more than you had before I wish this is kind of the level we'd hit at battle tomes I I agree I mean the reality is this like I have I will have a pretty robust night haunt army When I get done here in a week um And there's a very high likelihood that I will shelf that army and finish up and play fireflyers for the next six months Sure, I mean just because like it's an army that I love, you know, it's in my wheelhouse My have almost everything painted, you know, like, you know, there's another 15 to 20 models I didn't want to paint but Like it look it's fun. I already like yeah So it is enticing enough that it makes me want to play it And I'm going to do it for both a narrative event and probably some competitive events in the next five, you know, five months or so nice So good stuff. I I mean that's that's I think the best praise we can get a successful battle tone A good solid mid-tier army with both options I think you can explore both for competitive play and narrative play like yeah Thumbs up for me The army doesn't interest me still. I have no interest in the aesthetics of these naked baby dwarfs, but I'm glad that they made a good book Yeah, right. So there you go All right, you don't want to do all magnet roths. No, I don't I don't I honestly don't like them that much Um, maybe if I found like a funny alternate sculpt, but anyways Thank you so much everybody for watching dug Absolute pleasure as always. Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh, yeah It is always a great time when two plus tough is in the house And you know, we're gonna force him in any way we can to come back again in the future Uh, it is like I've just I'll pester him and pester him and pester him until eventually he breaks down And we get him back on the show at some point you make it sound like that Like I was like, hey, I want to be on but I just get self-conscious about asking No reason at all dug. I would I would kick Tom out and replace him in a heartbeat. You'd be the new co-host Let me say just say that Uh, but at any rate, thank you all so much for watching We really do appreciate it Don't forget to hit that like don't forget the patreon's in effect now So if you're watching this, you want to support the channel and what we do You want to up your hobby game and focus on some more ways for individual teaching and join a cool discord community You can do that all the patreon information is down in the description Obviously hit that subscribe button if you haven't already if you've got questions or opinions or anything We talked about today and we didn't cover them comment that down below Really really appreciate everyone watching. Uh, can't wait to see everybody next week At adepticon for the in-person live Don't forget And uh, so it will be later. I'll repeat it again. The show will not be until like 11 p.m. Eastern So set your clocks accordingly, but thank you all so much for watching We'll see you next wednesday