 And I spent a little time reflecting on that, and I know that others have too. In fact, I briefly attended a session earlier today talking about perhaps some of the criticism of the idea of a conference like this using the idea of Ubuntu in part because there are different ways that we might be appropriating that concept or are we truly understanding that concept? And I thought it was really interesting because it's very much in the spirit of Wikimedia, this idea that we're constantly in reflection and we're constantly interrogating what it is that we do, trying to make it better. So I'm not actually sure if we've achieved the Ubuntu way forward in this conference today, but I have absolute confidence that we're going to continue to work to try to achieve that as we go forward into the future. The thing that I found really inspirational over the course of this conference has been, of course, sitting in conference sessions with Wikimedians, but it's also been listening to people who are here for the first time, the people for whom this is their first Wikimedia and say, you know, this is my first and I will be back for many more. And those who are passing through are guests, perhaps, who say, and I swear, this is a quote, it's probably messy on the inside. You can laugh because of course we all know how very messy it is on the inside, but from the outside it is entirely inspirational because somehow this volunteer community manages to get together and be the best versions of themselves. The most generous, the most helpful, the most committed, and the most passionate. And that is absolutely the spirit to me, perhaps, as I think about what the meaning of Ubuntu actually is, is bringing that better version of ourselves together by the very virtue of being in community. So I also thought a little bit about what I wanted to get out of this conference, personally, when Bab stood up and asked us, what do we want to give and what do we want to get? And of course I want all of you to go to the strategy sessions. I couldn't stand up in front of a roomful of Wikimedians and not talk about strategy. Now I know lots of you have been going to the strategy sessions, but I also know some people have said, gosh, you know, it's a lot of strategy, but I'd like to quote somebody who just said to me earlier, it's actually the listening and the talking from where the strategy comes, so just go listen. Just go sit. That's actually how we figure out what we do next. But what I wanted to get out of this conference specifically was a much stronger understanding of our African community, and what I really also hoped was that by the time everyone left this conference, they too would have a stronger understanding of our African community. Not just those of you from outside of the African continent, but those of you from inside of the African continent to look and see each other because of all of the differences that we have across this vast landscape. I really hoped that by the end of this conference, we would walk away as a global community, having an understanding of the central role that this continent can play in our movement, how we move Africa from the margins to the center, perhaps to quote from some of the panels that we've talked about, or some of the conversations that other panels have focused on, and how we as a global community take responsibility for welcoming in our colleagues from across Africa and elevating them up. And since when you sat down, you had the Wikimania bingo, I'm gonna say we're gonna elevate them up like to the top of Table Mountain. And you can cross off the Table Mountain pun joke. You're welcome. I don't know. I don't know how you make a pun with Table Mountain. And it really, it means something very special to me for us to be here today in South Africa because I was talking to someone else last night and realized that I've never ever told this, I don't tell this story often, but I found my way to the Wikimedia community first through Africa and not like the continent. We all know Africa is not a country. Thank you to our keynote speaker this morning. My very first experience with anything relating to do with Wikis was actually when I was, about 10 years ago, I was working at UNICEF and I came to Ethiopia to test MediaWiki extensions for their usability with students. As it turns out, we had a lot of work to do on usability for MediaWiki extensions as many of you in this audience know and continue to work on. So we didn't actually do very much with Wikis in UNICEF or we didn't do it for long, but that was my very first experience and exposure to open source. It was my very first experience and exposure to the Wiki community and it happened here on this continent, yes, very far away in Ethiopia relative to where we stand now, but nonetheless on this continent. And so in some way for me, we've come full circle at least for my personal journey in Wikimedia. And so it means a tremendous amount to me when I think about what we do as we move forward is how do we bring this entire community and this entire continent to the center of our movement and then collectively elevate it and work together to overcome the challenges that our fellow colleagues and Wikimedians have had in feeling at the center of our movement. Earlier last night in preparing for the panel we're about to have, I talked to some of the, to our panelists and one of them said to me, Shola that he's always felt on the outside. I hope by the time we walk away from this conference that our colleagues don't feel like they're on the outside anymore, but they feel very much at the center of our movement. We've heard a lot throughout the course of the last couple days about bridging the knowledge gaps that exist as the theme of the conference and what we can do in order to address that. And I don't know about you, but I've been really inspired by the conversations that have happened. I've been inspired by the things that I've heard from people who've gone to sessions and said, this is what I'm gonna walk away with. This is what I'm going to go home to do. I've learned this from another colleague and I'm going to implement this program in my own work. I've also been inspired by speakers like our keynote speaker yesterday who showed us these really incredible visual landscapes of the work that has yet to be done who helped us understand through maps and graphs the imbalances that exist within our global community in terms of contribution and representation. I've been talking a lot over the course of the conference and using the statistic, which I still find so stunning, that only 1.3% of contributions to our global projects have come from the continent of Africa. So clearly we have a long way to go in terms of bridging these gaps, but I know that Wikimedians love nothing more than a challenge. In fact, we're constantly fixing things. If you bring it down to the core of what it is that we do, that is kind of what we do. You're all fixers, you're all helpers. And so this challenge to me is actually an opportunity, of course, because you can flip every challenge around. It's an opportunity for us to learn from those who are new to our movement. It's an opportunity for us to embrace the stories that matter that we haven't heard yet. And it's an opportunity for us to support our colleagues in communities from wherever they come from in order to really, truly expand what this movement is and be something more holistic in order to make it real. And I'm gonna ask the panelists to talk a little bit about what they think the opportunities are, about how they can learn and embrace and support and grow in each other's strengths. And because I'm gonna ask the panelists to talk about this, I hope you'll listen very closely because they'll be talking about what they need from you and how you can support them as well in order to make it all real, because this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to make it real. And with that, thank you very much. We're gonna switch over to the panelists. I would like to welcome on stage Emna, Shola, Samuel, and Irina, please come join me. Thank you, thank you so much, thank you. How you doing? What do your bingos say? I don't think I said Global South, so, all right. I know, can I hand this to you? All right, thank you so much for joining me. So I ask these panelists on stage because you've heard from me, I say the same thing every time, strategy and community. I really wanted you to hear from our colleagues who have been doing the work over the course of the many years that they have been Wikimedians in order to build our global community in their various countries. And I wanted to just note that we have two first time attendees to Wikimania. So could we get a big round of applause to welcome them to their first Wikimanias? So we have Irina Makutu from, oh, I'm sorry, this is not an order. I apologize. This is Samuel Guevo from Kutibar. We have Irina Makutu from Uganda. We have Emna Mazuni from Tunisia, and we have Shola, I'm gonna get it right, Olenion from Nigeria. And each of them represent very different experiences in terms of the work that they do and the focus that they have. And I just wanted to just get us started off by asking, as I said, we started the conference by talking about what we wanted to get from Wikimania. And I'm interested, perhaps, Irina, this is your first Wikimania. What did you want to get from Wikimania when you came? I think for me it was a sense of support, community, encouragement, motivation to go back home and do something. And really I think that's what I've gotten. You mentioned to me when we spoke yesterday that you had found that you started doing the work in 2014 as a Wikimedian, but that we didn't see you as part of our global community until 2017. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, we started out in 2014 under Kumusha Takes Wiki. So after the project we continued doing activities, we're working with communities, rural communities, writers, just encouraging them to contribute information about their world. So we did these 2014, 15, but in 2017 when I attended my first Wikim Dabba, that's when I met the greater community. I was really inspired, but to think that just after that conference, that's when I got to know more people in the movement, got more contacts and got recognized as a group, but we had started in 2014. But after I came in such a gathering that people got to know what was happening. I'm interested, how has your work changed if it has changed? How has it changed since you feel as though you've been recognized after the 2017 Dabba? Before 2014, I think we didn't value communication with the greater world. So I think now most of the activities we try to communicate with the rest of the world through social media. But then when we incur problems of blockage or roadblocks, we have people to turn to because we know everyone's capacity is out there. Before it was just a handful of people we knew. So if we got a roadblock, we'd maybe discard the idea, but now we look at situations in a different way. Samuel, you've done a lot of work, not just with libraries, but also within the developer community in Cote d'Ivoire. I'm curious for you, how being connected to the global community has affected and changed your influence and some of the work that you've done there? Yeah, I think you know there are some moments that you witness and that drastically change your way of seeing things. And I do believe that Wikimedia, as long as all those Wiki conferences are crucial moments to get support and to get inspired in terms of ideas. And I remember that four years before, we had the very first edition of Wikim Dabba, which is by the way the original conferences gathering voluntary comedians from Africa, but also from beyond. And right after that, I think we scaled up because for me that was my first international event in terms of Wiki, and I had a chance to meet people who shared valuable insights. And it turned out that these ideas, when I was back home, had a terrific impact on my volunteer, my will to do things differently. And it was translated into practical actions like projects, like I never thought about before, but that were made possible, shortly after being exposed to foreign experiences and diverse experiences around the world. Yeah. I know I've been incredibly inspired about some of the work that you've been doing. I think there was an event with the African developers. If a hackathon, an event, a summit, how would you describe what you guys worked on? Yeah, there is a project called Africa, Wikimedia Developer Project, AWMD, which basically tries to bridge the gap. We spoke earlier about gap. There's a technology gap here. Few people from this continent contribute on the technical aspects of Wikimedia project. And it tends to reduce that gap. And basically, there's been a couple of additional training sessions where developers from Africa gather around and train on how to use fabricator. MediaWiki had to fix the bags, submit the patch. And in my country, there was a training session too. I think it was February, and we gather around 20 of them and we made them work on actual bags. So they, in short, they worked how to fix. So they tried to found their way out into that sometimes opaque work of Wikipets on the technical side. And it was great, actually. Well, it sounds like we're gonna have to work to improve some of our documentation if we're going to bring more African developers in, right? Yeah, why not? But I think documentation's already present. What is sometimes the issue is that we not always know that it exists all the way to find them. For example, in a few months before, we were trying to work on a very small project which basically was a statistics tool gathering how many bags were fixed by mouth, by developer community. So we worked on that, only to find out that few days after, actually, there was a tool existing. Yeah, so sometimes information exists, but the way to access to that information is an issue. I'm sure many Wikimedians can sympathize with that experience. Shula, I mentioned earlier that you said something last night that really struck me. It was the feeling of being outside. Can you just talk a little bit more about what you mean by that so that perhaps folks can understand what that experience has been like? Well, I would like to start by, first of all, stinking the Wikimedia Foundation for the opportunity to have us saying our mind how to the entire community. Well, generally, because of where we contribute from, which is English Wikipedia, and we all know the size and the number of editors. For us, many of us are just picking up and the way we have been handled on English Wikipedia is so embarrassing. And you can imagine when we take so much time as community leaders looking for editors and their first experience on Wikipedia is usually nothing to write home about. And it's like we keep finding it difficult to retain editors. We do so much to bring them what is difficult to retain them, not even the challenges outside Wikipedia editing. There are challenges outside Wikipedia editing, which one of them could be internet. A lot of us wanted to edit, but we can afford internet. And when internet is available, we cannot access it because of the quality. Now, those are some of the challenges. And by so doing, we don't really, from where I come from, a lot of us don't really care so much about editing. However, with the establishment of the affiliates and the time taken to convince people to change the myth which are going here and there in Nigeria, a lot of people don't really want to use Wikipedia as an education support to support education because of the fact that, oh, it's not reliable and X, Y, Z, we made them to understand changing the myth, changing the narrative that while Wikipedia is good, it's you and I that can also contribute. And another area which I always like to talk about is the fact, the outcome of the New Readers Survey that shows that we only have 23% of awareness in Nigeria on Wikipedia. And at the end of those people that have the awareness, many of them, 99.9% only sees Wikipedia as just a search engine. And that is a big myth that we are working on to change. Wikipedia is not just a search engine but it's an encyclopedia that it can change. And by so doing, we begin to see people coming in to see Wikipedia, to see the community as being part of them and not just being outside the community. It reminds me, Irina, you spoke yesterday about how one challenge that you have is that people don't really know why they would contribute. Is that, you said yesterday something about how why should I share was often, when you went to people to talk about getting involved with the media, they would say, well, why, why should I share? And a couple other folks said, yeah, wow, that's really an experience you've had, too. I mean, I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about what strategies have actually worked to help flip people's perspectives from a why should I share perspective to actually wanting to contribute and be a part of the Wikimedia movement. I mentioned that yesterday. For Wikimedia community to thrive, we need to look beyond within the community. We need to think about what is our relationship with outside the Wikimedia community. In Africa, especially Nigeria, a lot of people take so much money to build their content. For us, we need the contents which we want to share on an open license. Whatever they share with our community is not going to come to them with the profit or again. We should be able to strike a balance and in striking a balance, we need to re-arrange the thinking of our people. A very good instance. A lot of them will want to hide everything we have. And for Wikimedia community, we want to come to them, please come and give it to us for free so that we can share, so that people can use it for education, for research. Now, we started changing people to understand why things should work. In Africa, past looking at the government, everyone, the government are not really, how do I put it? They are not really so cooperating in taking care of the people. Whatever you have, you want to make sure you hold on to it. But for us, we must ensure that they give it out. And that is where partnership comes in. Oh, please, yeah, thanks Emma. So I think we have a different, or at least I do have a different perspective of how making people share their content. It's still not something that everybody would feel comfortable with. However, if you highlight the recognition of the whole movement to whomever is sharing, I would say the data or the archive pictures. That kind of gratitude and recognition that they see within the community, the local community. And after that, the international community is one of the elements that motivate them the most to contribute more. It's like in Wikimedia, Mexico, 2015, I came back home with a more established idea of a project, Medinapedia project. It was like more established in Wikimedia when I exchanged with other Wikimedians. When I came back and I talked to our partners in Tunis about that project, that was for them. So yeah, that means that Tunis, the Medina of Tunis will have such a platform to be seen and to be visited even virtually. Yes, we will partner with you for that. Although we are talking about a partner that is very new to the technology. So it was like the motivation came from that recognition, the international recognition. Yeah, if you don't mind, I might add something to that. In terms of partnerships, I think there's something that comes into play. You, it's about finding what partners need. You know, back to some years before, I know that when trying to collaborate with librarians, we had that idea in mind that they just don't understand us. But that was just assumptions. After a few interviews and people we met, we just quickly realized that actually they're more willing to listen to us when we come with something strong, they can understand, something they can relate to. Let's be practical. I remember that back to 2017, we all know about the 101 Ref Magnificent campaign. And we decided to join it. And we were facing the same issue. How should we attract them? What should maybe be put before us as something that could relate to. And I remember that we told them, well, think about it. These sessions has capacity building. And in their world, the librarian's world, increasing the capacity is something that's meaningful. And we witnessed a very quick demand for these types of sessions. I remember that in 2017, we only gathered about around seven librarians. But those seven guys who attended the session started to spread the word with their friends, their colleagues, and I spoke about that earlier today. They were around this year, 60 librarians willing to attend. And at a certain point, we even had to close the registrations because too many of them were willing to come and attend. So it's only, it might not be relevant to all cases, but I think it's all about finding what they really need. And this reminds me, a session I attended led by Asaf Bartow, who claimed that it's about like business. You need to understand what your client wants, what you can offer them, what is relevant to them. And they think about it, yeah. I will say from seven to 60, I hope you continue to get that return. I think in Uganda, what I used was statistics. Statistics, like what's the reality? When you pull up an article and find out that who created this article, who are the editors and where these users from. So people realize that this information is not coming from the continent. In a way, it would motivate them to say, oh, maybe we should talk about ourselves. Switching gears a little bit, and we were talking yesterday about not just the challenges, but perhaps some of the risks and threats that Wikimedians face in sort of the African context. And Shula talked a little bit about some of the on wiki challenges in terms of, you will do this work to bring editors in and then they get there and they're reverted and they don't feel like the investment has been worth it. But you brought up a very different threat yesterday that you wanted to highlight. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about that? Of course, yeah. So maybe the region that I come from, the minor region is a bit of, sometimes it could feel unsafe for people to reveal their own identities to write in certain topics. And this comes from different perspective or different reasons, to be honest. It's like, it's either different political backgrounds, ideologies, religion. So all together may be a threat for some people to reveal their own identity. The good thing is when you have like a username different from your own identity, but still there is a threat for those people. And one of the things I think if we could grant those people who would like to join the movement are afraid of taking any kind of any side or in editing on Wikipedia or in joining the movement, maybe by providing them a safe platform that would be very helpful because it could be a great risk for them to join the Wikimedia movement. It could be as well, if they reveal their own identity, they might be asked to, I would give a random example without naming anyone, but they could be asked to edit certain articles in favor of like one side and that would create more bias on Wikipedia. And this is the thing that we're trying to fight. I think we're all together here to bridge the gaps but creating biases will not help or maybe they would be asked to like to give more voices to the wrong causes. So it's like you can never ensure what would happen in certain cases. And I feel like if we could provide them a safe platform either just by saying that they are very welcomed within the movement without revealing their own identity and share their personal data, what kind of protection or support we could give as a whole movement and as like local communities that would be very grateful, sorry, very great, yeah. I think Samuel, you mentioned yesterday that you felt as though a fire had been lit under you when you attended, was it your first in Daba or was it your first Wikimania? Sorry, you didn't catch you. Oh, sorry, you said yesterday something about when you attended one of your first Wikimedia events you felt like a fire had been lit underneath you. And I know you said something very similar and so I wanna ask all of you, how do we light more fires so that we end up with more community members who from your own countries but also how do you see our ability and your ability to continue to grow our global community that specifically within the African context? What would you recommend we do? Yeah, out of my mind, I think, and I mentioned that earlier, the fire, if more people attending these types of conferences of gatherings could share about their experience, during these conferences we share about lessons learned, et cetera, but I think there is also room for sharing about personal outcomes like impact on yourself, like what we do right now, this could be a game changing in the lives of people. Sometime you relate more to something, when you hear it and hear people talking about themselves, talking about experiences they're being through, you could identify yourself to such experiences. We hear about projects, we hear about results out of those projects, but we could also hear about the impact on the life of people, how it changed things. Let me open a quick bracket. For example, out of this, I remember in Daba, 2014, few months later, I was hired as Wikipedia in residence and I worked for around a year, but after that, this had an impact on me in my dedication to Wikimedia projects, and so on, I've been through several other projects locally to empower my community. Last year I had a chance to work as a strategic coordinator for the French-speaking community, and I think all of this has a close relation to what happened back then, and if somehow people could tell more about themselves, how impactful all these experiences are on their lives, this could also help other people to see that. It's not only about projects, but it has also the clear impact on people's lives. Come for the article, stay for the people. Yeah. I think for me, it would have to be acknowledgement and recognition, I think at the basic human level. Sometime when you do something, you want to know that someone acknowledges what you're doing, recognizes what you're doing. Yeah. I would link this to a question that I received yesterday in the Africa Coolest Project, what we could get back to our home, and I would say to fulfill the theme of this year, if you would go back to your countries and you would talk about the amazing work that is happening across Africa, within all the affiliates. They are doing incredible work with a little of resources and help. If you could go back to your communities and try to find ways of partnerships with those African communities, and if you could be of great support to them, this is what I would like to see after Wikimania. This will help us to bridge the gap. I think for me, it's a story of hope because I remember we started our affiliates in the, we were recognized in the year 2015. Or not before 2015, we were just, all Wikipedians in Nigeria are just doing, we're just working without a direction. Now that we have an affiliate, and actually I came from a country with a uniqueness, one of the largest in the world, and being the seventh in the world, and you have a lot of people that need a direction and that need that sense of belonging. Now, as I said, it seems as if we were operating from outside the box. We felt how can we really take Wikipedia as a gospel onto the whole state in Nigeria? We have like, the state in Nigeria, and it's so difficult. Perhaps because of the model, where many of us are user group, most of us are volunteers, who, for us, it's so difficult for you to actually give out your time for free. And for the few ones that really want to work, they need to be dedicated. And when you are dedicated, do you have enough resources to get to where we want to go? And that's why we started one of, maybe we replicate models that has been on, that existed even before the Wikifan Club, whereby we have to have solid partnership with tertiary institutions in Nigeria. Today, it is a talk of the town. There are universities in Nigeria are begging us to come and have a hub in their school. And that's a big challenge also from outside because we need to also look at resources because you can't actually buy it more than what you can chew. But as it is, we are growing. We have five universities, already six universities, also lying right now to have a hub whereby they can train about Wikipedia. And the testimony, if I have the opportunity of sharing what's have grown, we have some of these students are coming together every day to train about Wikipedia is amazing. And it's a testimony that I would like all of us to take up. I want to make sure we have about 10 minutes left. So I want to invite people from the audience. If you have any questions that you have for the panelists, there's a microphone up here and up here. And I think it would be wonderful to offer that opportunity. Oh, do I see people coming? No, I see people leaving. All right, sorry. I'm curious. You are all leaders within the African communities. And what do you think in your, what do you think we should be doing to grow more leaders like you? So may I invite more leaders or more people to join such events. I mentioned earlier to me, these types of moments change your perception of the world. And they can have a very drastic impact in terms of vision. If last year I remember I was in Montreal out of all those Africans who got a scholarship and could not attend the conference, I felt bad because I was really, I felt alone. I felt that it was my first week in Mania. I was amazed by how interesting things were, how valuable things that I heard were. And also sad that I was the only one. I wasn't so alone, but I mean, considering those who had to stay home that they missed such a priceless opportunity. Then I reflected and told myself, wow, they need to be more people attending such conferences. So it's about, in my opinion, reflecting upon what to do to have more people attend. Because back home you bring a lot of things, bring a set of mind, you bring a set of skills that can change things for better. And if you want to have moral leaders, then bring more people. Yeah. I think those international projects or competitions that take place, for example, we have Wiki Loves Women, Wiki Loves Arts, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Education Program, such projects, when people get involved, they grow a set of skills that goes on with them. For me, I think, given equal opportunities for people across the world, not only Africa. And capacity building would be a key thing to share. We all need, I think, such a platform, not only Wiki Mania, but as you can see, Wiki and Dabba was very useful for a lot of emerging communities. And if we go back to the statistics, and we see that the number of user groups in Africa is increasing and we have more applications received after Wiki and Dabba, that's amazing. So such regional platforms, international platforms would be very helpful. And as you mentioned, Wiki Loves Monuments, for example, I like the way that they give us the support that we need. So if we're running international competitions or projects, that's so good to follow up with the small communities and to ask if they need any kind of support. Because sometimes it's like if you're new to a movement, you won't go and seek support. You would feel like, ah, I'm the only person who's asking that, that would be silly. But no, we have to go to them in order to build more leaders and more bigger communities. And I think for me, it is more of awareness. I want to imagine that everything that we need actually is in there for us in the Wikimedia movement. But the challenge of knowing how to get the information is where we are right now. That's why many of the African countries are where we are. I mean, Africa in Africa. And you can imagine, all of us are growing at different pace. There are affiliates that are dying. There are affiliates that are coming up very fast. There are affiliates that are just being there. And because I said it yesterday, many of us, we've gotten to the movements just by accident. I never knew what is Wikipedia because I Wikipedia started in probably 2020, 2000 and 2001, and then I left our institution. And the nature of what I do doesn't really relates to research. Then I don't need it. But then, by accident I got to know, I was in Indaba in 2014, just because I belong to a movement that is not Wikimedia, but I have to be, I got a scholarship to be in Cape Town, I got a job out for first week in Indaba. And that was where my highest hope went to a lot of gap that we need to cover, not just as a person, but as a country. And by the time I got home, I could see what we need to do. And by then narrating the story to my people, that brings a lot of people to the understanding of the need. One, I like sharing my story because I like telling people about my story. In my country, if there's gonna be anything that you want me to do, the first question is, what is it? What is it in need for me? I, if you want me to do, what is in need? And for us, for you to convince a volunteer, I'm not gonna give them money. I want them to come and volunteer their time. But we also need to let them see why they need to volunteer. Because perhaps in Europe or in America, we may not be seeing those challenges. But for us, what is in need? Let me give you an instant before I random. Sorry, just one minute. I built, at the time. Okay, it was out of time. Is it a quick example? Okay. No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to cut you off, but I did want to recognize that Douglas is holding up the out of time card. Oh, one minute. Is that one minute for a Shola's example? One minute for Shola's example. One minute. One minute. Yeah. 30 seconds, because I gotta wrap it up. Yeah. One, for us, to get a job, would depend more on certificates. We don't care what's the experience. It is your certificate that gets you the job. But we don't really understand the fact that certificates can get you the job, but the skills is gonna be what is going to retain the job for you. Nigerian students, we wanted to get the certificate to get the job, then to retain it, that's the job. Then we come with the narrative of Wikipedia. Wikipedia will actually not going to give you the certificate, but there are skills. With your experience working on Wikipedia, you're gonna get the communication skills. For a lot of you that want your job, your work to be reviewed. When you work on it, outside the people in the community come around to review your work, to improve your work. That also help you to have the self-confidence and also seeing the feedback for what you're doing. I was invited by the state government last week and I was told they are not gonna allow Wikipedia, what's it called? Project on the program. But I told them, yes, because you think Wikipedia is not gonna give you the job, but Wikipedia is not gonna give you the job, but it's gonna give your participant the skills that you want for them to get the job. And by so doing, by the time I narrate what Wikipedia will give to them, we have a lot of people participating in the program and then it could also have actually given to us. Thank you. Thank you. I would just like to say thank you very much to all four of our panelists today. If you have not had the chance to come and meet these wonderful people, please say hello and you now know who they are as they're walking around with Romania. Thank you all so very much, not just for being with us here on the panel today, but everything that you've done, everything I've learned something from listening, I hope others have learned something from listening, but if there was a fire that was lit under you the last time you attended an event, I hope that it is a bonfire when you go home. So thank you very much, everyone. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.