 My name is Patrick Mullins from the Australian High School and we're very happy to have you all here today. This is the first of a series called Stay Connected, Stay Informed and Shape the Future. A series dedicated for an engagement between our High Commissioner. But everyone is sending a message with the contactee. And our expert alumni panelists that we will have every month. This first session is on cyber security, an issue of only increasing importance to us all. I just want to run through a few house rules for this session before I pass on to the High Commissioner. First of all, if I could ask through the session if we could turn off... Patrick, sorry to interrupt you but you're very, very soft and there are lots of messages saying that they can't hear you. Oh, okay. So maybe move closer to the mic. Okay, thank you. Cheers. Is that better? Much better. Oh, great. So anyway, a few house rules. Happy for everyone to have their webcams on. But if we're having bandwidth issues, we'll let you know and we'll ask people to turn off webcams. Please keep yourself muted throughout the session. Of course, unless you're talking. In the case of connectivity issues, please re-log in for the session. In the case the connection drops off from our end, please stay on and we'll connect right back. Thank you for the amazing and the quality of the question. Amazing number of the quality of questions we have received for this session. Unfortunately, we won't be able to get to them all today. Some of them we will look to take forward for future sessions. So thank you very much for all your questions. But without further ado, I'm very honored today to hand over to our High Commissioner, Mr Barrio, who will make some remarks. Well, everybody, welcome to this webinar. It's a great pleasure to be joining with our distinguished alumni panelists as well as with all of you. Our alumni are an integral part of the Australia-India relationship. The India economic strategy highlighted the importance of alumni to our relationship. And that's a sentiment endorsed by the Australian government. And I know that my consul-general colleagues and I place a huge priority on bringing them together. And I will just remind you if you've just come on mute your microphones. Today, the Australia-India relationship is at a more time high. Both countries increasingly view each other as natural partners. We have much to share and learn from each other, not the least in cyber security, the topic of this discussion. I'm delighted that I'll be interacting with you each month through our Stay Connected, Stay-Informed, future webinar series featuring distinguished Australian alumni. And I hope you'll participate, not just tonight, but in future sessions as well. Today's topic of cyber security is an issue of vital importance to both business and government. COVID-19 has brought tremendous changes to our lives, including the order diplomacy. When I took up this posting in February, I expected to be travelling the country, getting to meet alumni, other partners and stakeholders, and of course doing so face to face. But thanks to the pandemic, like you, I find myself almost exclusively engaging through digital forums. And we've all become well versed in the very digital platforms available. A consequence of all this virtual communication we're doing is its reminder to all of us of the importance of safe and open online environments. Even before COVID-19, it's clear that the internet now lies at the heart of most modern businesses and is a critical enabler of growth. Government, businesses and individuals around the world are reporting increasing incidents of malicious cyber activity by both state and non-state actors. So it's no surprise that cyber affairs and critical technologies are also areas of cooperation between Australia and India. Both countries are committed to ensuring that the internet doesn't present risks to security, liberty or prosperity. During last month's virtual summit, Prime Ministers Morrison and Modi announced agreements covering a wide range of areas, including on cyber and critical technology. Under a framework arrangement on cyber security and cyber-enabled critical technology, the two countries will work together to promote and preserve an open, free, safe and secure internet, including by shaping the rules and norms governing new technologies such as in artificial intelligence, quantum computing and robotics. And that joint framework sets out practical actions to enhance digital trade, harness critical technology opportunities and address cyber security challenges. The Australian and Indian governments also hold regular bilateral cyber dialogues between officials and the third bilateral India-Australia cyber dialogue took place in September last year. The meeting agreed upon reciprocal expert exchanges to share information on cyber security policy development, telecommunications, legislative developments and of course engagement with the private sector. The officials from both our countries discussed and continue to talk about emerging ICT technologies, the internet of things, national approaches to cyber security policy and legislation, multilateral efforts to cooperate for example through the United Nations group of government-enabled experts, an open-ended working group and of course cyber crime. You will have seen or heard that Australia's recently announced its largest ever investment to strengthen its cyber security capabilities. More than 7,000 crore rupee or 135, 1.35 billion Australian dollars will be invested to build cyber resilience and create and recruit 500 new cyber experts in Australia. So the topic of this webinar is both relevant and timely for all of us. Let me again by thanking all of you who have joined us for what should prove to be an interesting discussion and thank in advance our distinguished alumni, panellists Aiyush, Jui and Lokesh for their time and their wisdom in this discussion. It's great to see so many people. Thank you very much. Thanks very much High Commissioner for setting us off on what we are really interesting discussion tonight and getting particularly that government-to-government perspective which I think is a really important overlay for where we can go. Our first speaker from the alumni expert panellists is Juhi Ahmed. She's a communication consultant and start-ups mentor. Ms. Ahmed is a communications professional. She's had 25 years of global work experience in Australia, India and the US. She has travelled in the corporate sector in areas and worked in areas including technology, education, entrepreneurship and nonprofits. So thank you very much Juhi, over to you. Okay, just unmuting my mic. Thank you very much and thank you High Commissioner for hosting us and to the entire High Commission team in Delhi and of course the team members in Chennai who have invited us to this panel. The first thing I wanted to say was this is actually a really, despite the scenario, the setting that we're in with COVID, being able to connect with all the alumni in this way is the first time that I'm doing a virtual meeting where we're actually getting to hear voices from say, I heard Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore, Madhura, you know, other parts of India. And so that's the really nice part of this virtual meeting. So that's a good initiative. So thank you for that. Just a little bit about me. Brief introduction, you've already done most of it. Patrick, thank you. I've been living in India now for the last close to 15 years and of those 15 I did 12 plus at Microsoft where I had the opportunity to connect with a lot of technology experts and dev experts. I've also worked as a journalist at the ABC in Melbourne. I've done a little bit of work at Hollywood, which is my interesting little mix in my career. I have my husband Tony lives here in Hyderabad and we're both hunkered down in Hyderabad at the moment since March. And I have two children, Taj, who's in Melbourne and Zia daughter in Vancouver. So that's the sort of overall perspective. But me, I am going to talk a little bit about the fact that what what COVID has presented in terms of cyber security issues. I did a lot of research in the lead up to this conversation with a number of representation representatives from senior representatives from a lot of IT companies, including Google SAP and a few others are working in this space. And it seems to me that cyber security has been at its highest in terms of hacks and scams and problems that people are facing because one's working from home. There's been a relaxation of the access rules for people to be able to access business confidential information. Wi-Fi public Wi-Fi points have been opened up. And so you've seen this explosion of random hacking happening all across the world as I understand it. And pretty much all the Fortune 500 companies stand have had to ramp up very quickly. They may have had contingencies and disaster recovery plans in place already. But it's been a huge strain on the infrastructure that each company faces. And maybe till about April, I think companies were struggling to get up to speed. There was a lot of unexpected attacks and defending a lot of scams. I just want to mention most recently just yesterday we had a cryptocurrency scam that came out of Twitter. I'm not sure if many of you heard about it, but it happened overnight where hackers got into using some special tool of Twitter and managed to get into very important prominent people's accounts. People like Joe Biden and Elon Musk have had cryptocurrency scams running off their Twitter handles encouraging people to pay Bitcoin into the cryptocurrency in 35 minutes or they get double their money in back. So these are the kinds of things we're seeing. I myself have been online a lot since March 22nd really. And I'm finding that more and more there are other things that are happening, you know, just from our behavioral changes on how we're working. We're becoming far more productive. In fact, we're probably becoming too productive because you're always on your machines and always working to sort of meet deadlines that you would typically have a couple of days to work on. So just I'm going to pause there and say that I'm happy to take questions in addition to, you know, what the situation is. But I also want to say that the opportunities for India and Australia from a point of view of collaboration enormous tackling the skills gap that exists for cyber security in both countries. And breaking down boundaries, sharing intelligence without breaching confidentiality policies, something that's already happening. The IT industry does this a lot. They, you know, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, they all share information without compromising their competitive intelligence to protect each other. I think we can see that happening in between India and Australia in a big way. And the fact that there's already existing relationships that have started between Australia. And I'm going back several years. It's not just the most current thing. But the fact that we have universities such as Deakin or Macquarie, New South Wales, they're all working in India to bring cyber security expertise to this country to bring commercial interests and to have an exchange with Australian companies. So it's a benefit, a benefit for both countries, I would say. Thanks very much. Thanks very much, Judy. That's a really nice overlay. I think it's all the emerging challenges we have and where the seeds have already been planted for Australia cooperation, including amongst universities. Now going on to our panelist, Mr. Ayush Rametti. He's the co-founder and director of Dasik Spengaluru. He's a graduate of Monash University and the University of Melbourne. Ayush started as a management consultant for us in Young. We're very, very happy to have him here with us today. Over to you Ayush. Thanks Pat. And can I just say, I'm going to catch up with you afterwards to find out where you got that vest from. That's smashing me. I need to grab myself one of those as well. Thank you Pat and thank you High Commissioner for hosting this. I think this is going to turn out to be a really valuable forum going forward. So apart from what Pat has already said about me, I guess I'm deep in the cybersecurity space with my company with Dasik. What we do is we work with a lot of mid-market and large enterprise clients around the world, some smaller ones as well. And we help them do two things. We help them make sure that software is free of bugs and free of security vulnerabilities. So I jumped at the chance to join this discussion because it'll write down my alley if you like. In terms of how we do this, we've got a couple of products. We've got Qsum which does the automated software testing. So testing someone using bots. And then we have CyberChief which is our vulnerability scanning and vulnerability management tool. And the genesis for my sort of journey in cybersecurity was a few projects ago we were doing something for a government agency. We were doing some pen testing. And within an hour of starting the project, our security tester was able to pretty much download the whole user database without any login credentials. And you can imagine it would have been a big PR disaster. But it would actually have been a massive privacy blow to every citizen who was interacting with that agency and consuming those services online. And it got us to think that there needs to be a better way in this day and age of helping IT professionals who are not cybersecurity experts make sure that they're building the right security controls into the products that they're developing. Typically what we did find was most cybersecurity tools that were out there were targeted cybersecurity experts. And now we know for a fact with all the government research that's gone out is that we already have many thousands of cybersecurity jobs which need to be filled but we simply don't have the people for them around the world, right? And we're not going to get those people in the next three, four, five years even, I don't think. So what we said about doing was building a tool for software development teams which would allow them to find vulnerabilities in their applications before they went live. And just to qualify that, most of the software that we use these days, new versions of that are being released maybe daily, maybe weekly, definitely fortnight. So if software teams are relying on external experts to help them, that adds up to a lot of money and adds up to a lot of inefficiencies. So the approach we took was, and I know this is the big part of the whole Indio Australia cybersecurity strategic alliance, is that there needs to be some sort of capability upliftment as well. So the tool we built not only helps software engineers find vulnerabilities but also helps them understand a bit more about the security controls that they need to build in using the programming languages which they're familiar with, right? Using the same programming languages which are building their software. And by doing that, we're helping software teams, I'm going to use a tech term here, shift less, essentially do more of this security testing work earlier in the development piece so that we can focus on the 20% which will really make a difference later on when timelines are really tight, right? Using the whole 80, 20 format then. The other thing that we wanted to do with our cyber chief tool was also give IT decision makers a way to baseline and understand what their application security posture was like, right? One of the things that holds cybersecurity back, I think, is that it's often seen as just a cost center in big companies and in small companies, right? You go to the city management and go, I need X amount of dollars or repeats for cybersecurity, they're like, what's the ROI? And that's really hard to quantify, right? But I think if we position this correctly and if we position the analytics correctly, we can help to change the conversation about what are we really doing here with that investment that we're putting in. And so part of what cyber chief is is also a way to measure and track your application security resilience for senior management. And look, I could talk for days about this. So before I do that and start boring you all, let me just quickly say that I'd like to thank obviously DFAT and the Australian government and high commission team in India, Janki and her colleagues for the monetary and non-monetary support they've given us in building our cyber chief. It's been a great help so far. And we're all counting on your continued support going forward. Thanks very much. I appreciate the opportunity to give us a sense of actually what cybersecurity really means when it comes to businesses. I must admit, when we look at it from a government end, we approach it from a different way. And I think it's important we increase our conversations together so we build more of a common understanding. So thanks very much for that. No worries. So now our next speaker is Mr. Esh Payek. He is the Chief of Digital Enterprise for Bosch Engineering and Business Solutions. He is responsible for establishing and scaling up the business in areas of the industrial internet of things for emerging markets, including India, Mexico, Turkey, South Africa, and ASEAN. And I think in terms of our work, it brings a lot to the table for this discussion. So thanks very much, Lakesh. Over to you. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. It's indeed a pleasure to be here. It's quite surprising that I got an email last week that I've been invited for that. It's indeed a special because it brought me back my Australian memories. I did my MBA from Latrobe way back in 2002 to 2004. And the term IOT also got inbuilt into me because of Australia way back in 2010, 11. Yeah, I was in Sydney attending the first IOT conference on behalf of Bosch. So that fueled it. And I currently manage in the industrial IOT business. That's a digital enterprise. And it's a digital enterprise that's mainly to do with manufacturing companies. Bosch being a global conglomerate, mainly to using Bosch products either in a car or in the home, and we built those 140 plus years of overall existence. And for us, the conversation is leading towards turning from a mere component manufacturer to an IOT company. And we started this journey in 2012. We're turning ourselves as an IOT company, because we are the largest electronic company manufacturer. And we firmly believe that going further, it is going to be connected. It's already being connected and it's going to go further into it. Where you can talk to the electronics, give, instruct them to electronics and start getting instruction. So that's the reason when we knew that Bosch has 20,000 strong engineering associates sitting in India, Germany, Mexico and Vietnam. And also supporting all 28 plants worldwide. So we developed those softwares, which get it into automotive, with home appliances, which get into hydraulics. The lunch is operated by Bosch, can control. So any, you can imagine a small difference of a small change in the software, someone who got into a beautiful hackathon for himself, and that led to a lot outside. So we do understand when you get into car, imagine us going to be further vulnerable for a lot of security issues, similar to the manufacturing companies. In a manufacturing company, if you look at a technology stack of connectivity to the cloud, a lot of data getting generated as you go further. Anything you look at, whether it's an automotive component or a steel manufacturer or a textile manufacturer. In the last five years of my, I have interacted with multiple companies in India and also a few of the companies in Turkey, Mexico, US and few in ASEAN. And we have noticed that while the manufacturing may sound easy because the data is all in the paper, but that turning into a lot of digital information storing that lead to a probably a cybersecurity threats. Hence, we Bosch have invested close to 300 to 400 million euros into AI as per year. And in that part, significant percentage has kept aside for cybersecurity algorithms, cybersecurity AI engines to building so that every product we give to our customer is well secured because a lot of data get generated also onto that. So as we go further, happy to answer. Indeed, it's a question to be here. I look forward for the conversation. Thanks very much for that location. I might ask, we just had a little bit of trouble hearing you towards the end there. I'm just wondering if you might be able to switch off your camera for the session. So now we get to the fun part where thank you to all of you who have provided questions. We've got so many and obviously we won't have time to get through the fall today, but we have gone through them. And as I mentioned earlier, some of them we will look to address in the next session. Some of them will, I think, carry on and we will get back to you on those. But I wanted to start with a couple, a few questions for the High Commissioner. And I might start with the first one, which is from Ashkay Kumar Seth, who says that, I think the world has learned that it can't rely or depend on China. What measure was Australia taking to promote its relationship with a country like India? And can we expect the business between the two countries to grow to a record high? Over to you High Commissioner. Well, that's certainly the goal. That's certainly my mission. It's the baton that I picked up from Harinda and that we're all aimed on. We're standing covered. I think we should be optimistic because the virtual leaders meeting last month between our two prime ministers elevated the relationship to a comprehensive strategic partnership, but signed a number of agreements and MOUs and arrangements, which will assist us to do business in a variety of areas from agriculture and water resources to the sort of technology we're talking about presently. So I think COVID has provided an opportunity for India and Australia to better align. I think it's clear that both countries have a great appreciation of their responsibilities across the Indo-Pacific region and it's determined in the words of Prime Minister Modi to fulfil their sacred duty in delivering a secure and prosperous Indo-Pacific. And I think that provides lots of opportunities. As I sit here today, we know that pomegranates can go for the first time into Australia. We know that down in the south, good malt barley is being used to produce a beer, boutique beers. So and at other levels, of course, including outside of security and cyber technologies, we are seeing already startup companies on both sides of the Indian Ocean engaging in the other countries. Thanks very much, commissioner. A question that a few people provided, including Aarajit Banerjee from the Association. Thanks Aarajit, Ratna Singh and Rohit Daskaran. What is Australia's strategy for cyber security? How is Australia teaming up with India and or a war? What is very long-term, can you make it a little louder? So I'll repeat that question that came from a few people. What is Australia's strategy on cyber security? How is Australia teaming up with India to handle a war in cyber, if any? I'm going to be relatively brief on this because there's a good document online which was the Australian government's announcement two weeks ago on boosting cyber security. It sets out in great detail the sorts of approaches that Australia is taking. And what we know is that with the Indian government, like good friends, we will share learning, we will ensure that when we've had experiences or we've had experiences, we'll seek to learn from those experiences. And I know, for instance, at a time when 5G continues to be topical, where we've seen a decision by Britain that there has been interest in Australia's decision on 5G. And we know that every country in the world, in a sense, is having to make those decisions. At a security level, at a government level, at a protection level, we do have interaction. But importantly for this audience that a lot of this is driven at the business-to-business level. If not because of the technology that created this, we've heard tonight by the people through the start-ups who then sell their wares and apply their wares to areas that continue to concern us. Obviously, one of the areas in which we'll continue to cooperate with India is trying to shape those norms and rules that will determine the way in which we interact virtually and inside them. Because we want to ensure that it's an enabler of people, it's an enabler of freedom and prosperity and not used for other means. Thanks very much. One final question, boss, and I think you've probably covered this a little bit, but I want to put it to you, is that from Ritu David, thank you, Ritu. The defence budget is still very heavy on kinetic force. While we have acknowledged asymmetric warfare tactics like cyber warfare is important, why is there not a proportionate shift in the budget? Do you see that happening in the next budget? Well, I think there is a proportionate shift in the budget and even for me and my strength still with India numbers, 7,000 crore rupees investment is a significant investment and I can only see it going in one direction because I don't believe anyone on this link tonight believes that the challenges that we face as we press further and further into the cyber world are going to get any less. So Australia is trying to be nimble, it's trying to be agile, it's trying to cover all bases as we seek not only to combat cyber challenges, but also to provide a strong deterrent to ensure that we have that security required in the Indo-Pacific region upon which we can base strong economies and deliver the prosperity that people expect. Thanks very much, High Commissioner. Juhi, one for you from Hitesh Kumar. With the lockdown situation across the globe, usage of technology has spiked and with the digital theft has increased as well. How does one ensure that one has the ground covered? Thank you. So the first thing I want to mention though is that with COVID, we've seen lifeline technologies like the one that we're using right now, Webex, Zoom, Google Meet and of course Office Teams all becoming very important modes of communication. So that's the upside that we've been able to work from home. We've been able to do a lot of work that has been enabled by lifeline technologies such as this. The downside of course is there's been a spike of multiple threats from different areas. And how do I see it being addressed? I mean, if I once again talk about what I've heard from people who are actually grappling with these real life issues every day, we're never going to be able to be completely on top of, we're never going to be completely cyber secure. That's the first thing. We're always going to be catching up in some shape or form because there is going to be advanced technologies that we come up with. There'll be someone coming up with something tomorrow to address those advanced technologies. So it's not a very positive picture that I want to paint. And I'm hoping Ayush can add and so can location as to what are the good scenarios that we can see. I do see that technology innovation is obviously key to addressing cybersecurity and mitigating issues. But it's never really going to be a situation where we're going to be say that we're totally secure. So I just want to say that. I want to paint the worst picture possible simply because I think there's a lot of work that has to be done from countries like Australia, from other countries in the world and India where we have this rich talent pool of people who are technology innovators already. I mean, you have this amazing development technology skills here that can be used and can be leveraged. And if there's some way we can, as Ayush mentioned, it's not going to happen like next year or something. But if we work towards addressing the skills gap, if we work to having more people in cybersecurity, from a policy point, from a perspective, from a development perspective, we could probably mitigate it and reduce it. But it's here to stay. Thanks, Tuhi. We might switch to Lukash now and if we have time, we might come back to another question for you and we'll see how we go on in the time. A question, Lukash, from Aparajita Banerjee. Considering that West Bengal is the pivot for the Act East policy according to various experts that has initiated several connectivity projects such as Bangladesh, India, China, Myanmar and the Myanmar Economic Corridor. And it also shares proximity to other East Asian and Southeast Asian countries. It would be crucial to safeguard against any potential cyber threats that affect supply chains in this area in these regional nodes, specifically ports and other transit points. Lukash, based on your work in the region, can you throw some light into what is being done at the regional level in this area? Thanks for the question. Pretty much a point of conviction that it's not just West, it's across India, right? We have worked with one of our clients who makes tires. And that tire, anyone can make out a tire is like you fix in the car and you buy for one time but they wanted to get into a different business model where the tire would be offered as a service. How would you offer it as a service? You're going to put the sensor into the tire so that you can start monitoring the real-time data when the tire is just attached to the vehicle and you start getting the real information coming out of it. So there's a lot of enormous of data that's connected to the vehicle driver behavior and that's connected to you getting right insights to offer right service. So here, when you are selling tire as one time, it's one time money you're coming in but you're looking at a revenue which is going to come across as you go further offering. That's a revenue model. But you also have to be very, very careful that you're collecting the data on real-time basis from that particular vehicle which would, even though the data is information required to you offer the service but there are a lot of possibility that you're also taking the location data you're looking at that particular human behavior. So that, having taken, we created a technology architecture which enhanced us to inbuilt security enhancement insight. While this is one use case, other use case, of course, a lot of possibilities of the manufacturing items do go out of the border and there you need to have a traceability enhancement on that because we do serve to Bangladesh from India plants and that has to go through the West and we do service to ASEAN countries and we have inbuilt to traceability, inbuilt into the components and we take those in a very, very measured way. As Jui mentioned, it's not the end. We constantly keep looking at it. There is a 24 bar 7 data center screen and also with the security, we look at those possibilities as detailed as possible. But it's not the end. We keep learning and we keep updating our algorithms as we require. So to envision a potential threat coming in to that potential threat going further. I just want to add something to what we were talking about. May I? Yes, please. The earlier question from Hitesh. One other thing that I understand to be a very effective way of reducing cyber crime or at least warding off attacks as much as possible is to actually be cyber aware. And there's not enough understanding and there's not enough adoption of cyber, you know, tackling and adopting measures to sort of not be a victim of cyber crime. And again, through my conversations and research, I discovered we have a very eminent researcher in Deakin University who's doing some work and here that the university is doing work in India talked about community awareness. There's one thing being aware of cyber crime, but the other thing is to make it to actually enforce behavioral change. A bit like the Slip Slop Slap campaign that we had in Australia several years ago where people actually had the message that skin cancer was bad for you. But then they had that other message which was don't just learn that skin cancer can come to you because of where we are, but do something about it and slap on some sunscreen. So I think with us being able to address it, we have to become smarter. Each one of us and actually maybe a behavioral change, awareness campaign that could be adopted to make communities understand the importance of being cyber aware would be something to think about. And I attribute that idea to Damian Manuel from Deakin. Yeah, I think it's a really smart idea, a smart concept, Joey. I'll give you a really quick example. I love the view that just like we teach our kids to wash their hands at school, we should teach them to be more about how to be cyber secure in this environment. It needs to go down to that level from my point of view. I think they're the makings of an India-Australia campaign for this. Great, completely agree. We'll take that away and we'll get back to you. Thanks very much for that, guys. I have a question for you. Considering the current worldwide situation, is it conducive for businesses in Australia to invest and transform digitally? If so, what could be the prevalent business opportunities for Indian and global organizations to provide digital transformation, document content, management solutions, and other related services in Australia? This is a question from Kavisari Vishwantan Subramanian and noting and mentioning also specific industry vertical segments would be really quite useful. Over to you, Ayush. Yeah, this is a difficult one. You're asking me to put my management consulting hat on and give you the keys to the world. If I had those, trust me, I'd be using them myself. But I think definitely one area which is if you have the skills and you have some know-how that you really want to get involved in is the topic for our conversation today and that cyber security. You see, unlike social media, unlike instant messaging, unlike email, cyber security has been forced upon us. It's a byproduct of the decisions that we've made. And so as you said before, we're constantly playing catch up, right? And even when we talk to our clients and we do work with them, the first thing we tell them is look, this is not about being 100% secure or resilient. You won't get there. The idea with cyber security is that you need to be, when you get attacked, you need to minimize the scope of the breach. And if you do that, you're winning already. Now, in terms of the opportunities that Australian companies have in particular, Australia is well-known, well, at least internally, Australia is well-known for producing really smart innovations. I'll give you an example. There's a company called Atlassian. You may not have heard of Atlassian, but you would have heard of JIRA and you would have heard of Confluence. And you would have heard of some of their products, which are used around the world by millions of people to create really cool pieces of software and technology. And I think with the investment that the Australian government is putting in, I think we'll start to see a lot of these smaller or niche players, if you like, come out of Australia to tackle some of these global threats. Obviously, we hope to play a part in that from our cyber chief perspective and also from the services that we provide. But I think one of the things that, despite the populations being so different, one of the things that entrepreneurs in Australia and India have is the willingness to compete and compete hard. In Australia, to get on top, you're dealing with a small market, so you've got to be the best. You've got to provide a really amazing solution. In India, just to get above the noise, you have to be the best. You've got to provide a really amazing solution. And I think this comprehensive strategic partnership that the governments have now enables that cooperation to go to the next level to continue sharing information not only from a government to government level, but also, as Julia alluded to before, in between companies so that we can make sure that we're doing all that we can to increase the resilience of not just the corporate world, but also society at large. Actually, I'll point this out. If I may, Pat, one of the things that you should do, this question relates to how do we go about digital transformation in this world, right, in this COVID era. I think, and location is talking about IoT devices. The most common IoT device in our house these days is a router or a CCTV security camera, right? Now, most people don't change the admin passwords on their routers, right? They keep it as a default. So anyone who knows a little bit about routers can get in pretty simply, pretty easily. There's a website that streams 24-7 images from CCTV cameras around the world where people have not changed the admin password, right? So in terms of simple things we can do, it goes around making sure that we are personalizing the tech that we're using. We're constantly increasing the awareness of how this tech actually impacts us beyond just the convenience aspects of it. And hopefully, holding some of these vendors, some of these companies that make this tech, holding them to account and helping them, making them help us increase the resilience of the technologies that we use. I think there's some really good points there, Ayush. I don't know about anyone else on this session. Probably the first thing I'm going to do when I go home is change my Wi-Fi password from the default setting I have to admit. Security practice for me to admit that to everyone over this call perhaps, but... Luckily, we don't know where you live. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so there you go. Look, I think thank you for that. And thanks to all our expert panelists. I think you've brought together a few different things we need to go away with. I think, Juhi, thanks for the really overarching sense of where we need to go and where we can bring universities in. Lekesh often, the internet of things, businesses working across the region and where we need to work together. And Ayush and Juhi also bringing together the importance of making an honest look at cyber safety. I know that's something the Australian government has put some money into recently. And there might be potential for us to look at doing things like that down the track. Just to wrap up. High Commissioner, thanks very much for spending some time with us tonight and responding to the questions from our alumni. I know from the comments that we really appreciated it. We look forward to continuing to engage with you through this period of COVID-19. I also want to thank the Australian Alumni Association of India who collaborated with us for putting this together. They are a great partner for us. And they are a great network for Australian alumni in India to get to connect with each other, opportunities in business between Australia and India. So without anything else more to say, thank you all for coming and we look forward to you all participating next time. Thanks very much.