 Felly, fynd i'n siwr o'r holleg yn y galw. Welcome to this meeting of South Cambridge y Dysgrif Ballwyd. My name is Councillor Peter Fane, and I'm the Chair of the Council, and my Vice- Chair is Councillor Peter S� Chairman. Before we start on the business proper, we have all heard some very tragic news about the family of one of our council colleagues. Both ensemble have tragically lost members of her family in a far and because she's well known to many of us and there is this terrible news so I would ask you to just join me in observing a minute's silence during which we reflect on this sad news. Thank you members. This meeting is being live streamed and recorded and we also allow recording filming and photography so long as the meeting isn't disrupted Mae'r hon ar gyfer hynny o bryd, mae'r hyn oes yng Nghymru yn ysgolwg hynny? Rydw i'n myfyrdd y teimlo gen i gael eu gwirifawr hwnnw? upside-down! Rydw i'n myfyrdd yng Nghymru yn eich cyfrifoedd o'r gwaith? Fel cyfryd o'r gwaith y gwaith, ychydig yw'r hynny'n eich cyfrifawr hwnnw yw'r gweithio'n cymryd? Ychydig ddim fod yn yw'n cyfrifawr hwnnw? Mae'n cyfrifawr hwnnw yn gweithio'n cymryd? Mae rhai amryd i'r amser yw yw hyfforddiad yn y goysbeth i'r cyfnod i'r gweithio ar gyfer o'r adrotech yn y gweithfeydd. Mae'r ddechrau yn y gymdeithi'r cyfnod i'r adrotech ar gyfer y gweithfeydd, dyfynnu byddai'r gweithfeydd yn dechrau, ac mae'n rhaid i'r gennych hyfactwys i'r cyfnod i'r adrotech yn y gweithfeydd, felly y gallwn gwneud i ni'n ddeg y gwirionedd y sgifur hwn, yn y cyfnod i'r adrotech yn ddegol maen nhw am ddod, lle i ni e dinero o'r gwaith flin iawn, nid o'r gweithgweithio'r gyllid yn lle gweld mae'riemabyn neu hanol. A fyddwn i'n gweithio'r gweithgweithan yn ei ddwylog sydd wedi bod yn ei gweithio'r ddoedd ben yn ei gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Al wnaeth gweithio i gyrch arddangos ei gwelio'r ffrif feeddynt Лerwm, galler armaedd eich bod y rhodi gweithi'r gweithi'r gweithio y dweud yn dda yn gwneud yn fwy o'r tîm ymlaenau cymryd..? Ond y dyfodol fi'n sgwrnogon o'r sgrin. Mae'r rhaid i bobl, yn mynd i wych yn newidd,edd y ddweud yn ei ystafell, bobl ydych chi ddwy'n digwyd cael y cyffredineth i'w dweud ei bod yn ei wneud yn ei wneud byddeddu i chi rhaid i rhaid i'r ddwy'r leisr yn ei ddwyno, ac sut yn ychydig yn fwy o wneud i osodf y ddwyny oherwydd? Diolch yn fawr i'n meddwl. Rhaid i'n meddwl. Rhaid i'n meddwl allan ar hynny, yn y bobl, yn Ynden, yn Smyth, yn Ddanganiawn, i gael gwiriaidr William Council wyneb, yn yr Ynden, yn yr awyglwch ar y cymdeithasod mewn lyfan. Mae'n tyfu, gallai'n mynd i'n meddwl, ac yn ddegach â'r hun, ac mae'n mynd i fynd yngelch y ddweud. Rhaid i'n meddwl. Rhaid i'n meddwl ar hyn. So item two on our agenda is declarations of interest. Do any members have interest to declare in relation to any item of business on the agenda? Yes, I beg your pardon. Councillor Heather Williams online, please. Thank you, Chair, and just that I'm a member of the Greater Cambridge Partnership Assembly in relation to the item on that topic. Thank you for that. If any interest subsequently becomes apparent later in the meeting, the committee's would members raise it at that point, and I would remind members that we need to keep our interest, of register of interest, up to date, and so we should inform democratic services team of any changes. Item four is the minutes of the last meeting, which is on pages 13 to 29 of your agenda. That's the meeting held on 25th of May. Do any members have any amendments to these minutes? Councillor Bradman. This is a very small item, Chair. It's item 21 on the agenda on our page 28 of the agenda pack, and I will read it as it is written. The Chair presented Councillor Anna Bradman with a commemorative badge of which I'm very proud, but which was provided to all former chairs, not formal chairs. Thank you for that. I'm glad here that you're very proud of it. We will not note those words in the minutes. Any other amendments to the minutes? Can I propose that we approve these minutes as amended and call for a seconder? Thank you. My vice-chair will second that. Members, are you content to take this decision by affirmation? Anyone against that proposal? Anyone abstaining? Thank you, Members. The council therefore agrees the approval of the minutes of the last meeting as amended as a correct record. Announcements. We have various announcements today. Before I make any announcements myself, Deputy Leader, do you wish to make any announcements? Thank you, Chair. Now I go into this stage. Thank you. Thank you. For myself as Chair, I would like to announce the selection of the Chair's charity for the next year. We have talked to a number of organisations. I'm glad to say I would like to appoint our charity for the next year, the Camborn Youth Partnership. There are a number of reasons for this. I am particularly keen that we should do more to engage with the community immediately around us, as well as the wider district community. We are all keen to engage more with youth in the district. Indeed, we have set up a task and finish group for that purpose. I will in a moment just ask Councillor Richard Stobart to say a few words about that. Before I do that, that task and finish group has been working for a while now and has come up with some suggestions, which we will come back to more formally at our next meeting. Before I ask Councillor Richard Stobart to comment on that, I would like to invite Nigel Taylor, who is the Chair of the Camborn Youth Partnership trustees, to speak to council. Nigel has with him a couple of colleagues, and it would be good to hear from them as well. Nigel, we would welcome the chance to hear from you about some of the work that CYP does. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Chair and councillors, for inviting us this afternoon. On behalf of all the trustees of the Camborn Youth Partnership, we're delighted to have this opportunity to talk a little bit about the work that we've been doing in Camborn. I'm delighted that you are interested in the work of young people in the area generally, and then in Camborn in particular. All I'd like to say is that you should all have received a two-page document electronically, which we produced for this meeting, so that you've got a little bit of an overview of what we do. The Youth Partnership has been going on now for over 15 years, much longer than I've been involved in it, and we worked out of a very small mobile building for many years, which some of you might have known, but just over a year ago, as a result of Section 106, Manifreddon, the Town Council and other sources, we now have a purpose built youth centre within Camborn called Camborn Soul, if you drive past it, which is now the base of our operations, and we're delighted to have a much better building from which to operate. I don't want to say any more now. I'd like to introduce you to Emma Whitbridge, who's one of our youth workers, who will talk a little bit more about our work, who will then in turn introduce a couple of young people who've been involved with us for a while. Emma, over to you. Thank you. Yeah, hi everyone. Thank you so much for having us. It's a real honour. I grew up in Camborn. I've lived here since the age of four, and I also attended the youth clubs in our very small quarter cabin that we've only just managed to say goodbye to. But yeah, like Nigel says, we have got an amazing facility now, and we are really, really lucky, and it's been able to expand our work, increase our capacity. I think if I just go through a general overview of what we do in a week, we do lots of open access sessions. We have about four for different age groups, but we also have things like boxing, art and craft, drop-ins, baking groups, and we also then do targeted support, so we often get referrals from the local school, and we do work with individuals that are potentially at risk of being kind of excluded. So yeah, we do lots of different things, and we also have different football groups and that sort of thing. All of our sessions are free. We work with about over 100 young people each week, and obviously that varies, and at the moment we are obviously working with the new, well, the current year sixes that are going to be moving up to year seven, so we did quite a lot of transition work as well. We also then work with the older end and some of our young leaders here, but kind of getting, preparing them once they kind of reach 18 up to 21, preparing them then for adulthood and line of work and training and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I'd like to introduce you to Bella and Paige. They also are graffing Campbell, but they can kind of share a bit of about their kind of story. Hi everyone. I am Bella, and like Emma said, we have both, Paige and I have both grown up in Campbell since, you know, we were little, and we have both since growing up at secondary school, we have both been going to the youth clubs through the week, and I think it was a decision for us to choose to volunteer to sort of give back and hope that other people can follow on in the future, so it is just an ongoing thing so that we never run out of volunteers, but no, the youth club is brilliant. They do offer an absolute variety of things, not necessarily just in Campbell, but throughout Cambridgeshire, but for us Campbell has been brilliant. Yeah, so we do run baking group. Yeah, so as Bella said, we went for like five years, I think I said for like 13, and then we carried on going, and then Campbell gave us the opportunity to do our Young Leaders course, so we've got a level two in youth work, and they put us through that course, and we've got like our DBS and safeguarding and stuff, so we've got additional qualifications as well as doing the youth work course, and then we run our own separate group alongside Emma, so we target a lot of the transition in year sixes and sevens to grow confidence. We have a little group at the moment of girls that we bake with on a Friday, and then we stay on through the night with Emma and a few other colleagues, and we do our older group, which is a more challenging group, but nevertheless always really fun. Thank you very much all three of you, and can I just add it's very important that our work is in partnership, and it's mentioned on the sheet, but two very important partnerships. One is with the Town Council, who very generously give us a grant every year, which provides a substantial amount of our funding, and then secondly our partnership with Romsey Mill, an organisation you might have heard about who works around the whole area of Cambridge, and a variety of contact particularly among young people, and they also provide financial support and infrastructure support for the work that we do, and without those two partnerships we couldn't operate at the level that we operate here in Canborn. So thank you for your interest, we look forward to hearing more about the project, the youth project that's being investigated and being part of that. Thank you. Thank you very much to Nigel and to Emma, Bella and Kent, and I think we all get a much better flavour and understanding of the work that we hope to give a little bit of support to. I was very keen that in addition to a small charitable contribution that we may be able to make over the next year or so towards projects underway, that we should also take the opportunity to engage with the youth partnership, and I think that is important in view of the work of our task and finish group, which the scrutiny and overview started a project to investigate and make recommendations of how we ensure the voice of youth in South Cambridge is both sought and heard, and it was recognised we need to start a process whereby youth engagement becomes more completely a part of our culture at South Cambridge, and the processes of young people engagement are woven into our pattern of work. That group hasn't of course reported yet, the plan is that they should report at our next council meeting, but I understand that the need for engagement with young people by members of the council is one of their recommendations, so this is very much in line with that. I hope that the work of the chair's initiative will fall squarely into the zone of their likely recommendations. I don't know whether Richard Stovart, which is Stovart, will have an opportunity to report formally at the next meeting, wants to just add a word or two with your indulgence before we move on. Thank you. I think you summed the situation very well, that's the position that the task and finish group took. I'd just like to underline something that has emerged from the work and which led to the conclusions that you just nicely summarised, is that I mean we sometimes think of our young people and we're very careful at the start of the activity to define what young meant and that was 11 to 25. 11 to 25 was quite a broad age range but we wanted to capture that whole transition but in investigating that transition we found on reflection young people in that age range are not just in the sense tomorrow's citizens they are today's citizens and we wanted to, through this process, discovered really how complex life as a quote young person is and how it's fluid and dynamic and how we need to keep engaging with young people simply in order to understand this picture of what it's like to live as a youth in today's culture. So there's an awful lot we have started to discover and we think that, as you've said, engagement of members with young people in all places, we talked about with youth in Camborn but also in businesses, in schools, in colleges and just going about business. I think that engagement is vitally important for us to understand this group and to engage with them properly. So more later but thank you for your summing up and then hope. Thank you for that and for your indulgence, council, in hearing council. Slow out on that and again thanks to our guest speakers for that. We will hear more of the next council meeting on that subject and we'll be further engagement before then. So we then move on to item six which is questions from the public. Now before we invite questions or statements from members of the public I would just remind any speakers that this has to be within the scope of our public speaking scheme. In particular I draw attention to the requirements of part one of our scheme. On the scope and of questions and statements and as chair I may reject any statement which is not about a matter for which the local authority has responsibility and which affects the district which is not a matter falling within the cabinet committee or subcommittee remit or where that part of that statement is vexatious defamatory or frivolous and if I as chair think that any speaker is straying outside the scope of the scheme I will step in with a reminder. Now we have received one request to make a statement from Mr Daniel Fulton. I don't know whether Mr Fulton is present or online and would wish to make his statement. I think not. We'll then move on to item seven which is petitions. I understand that no petitions have been received. We then move on to item eight A which is the report of the Auditant Corporate Governance Committee that annual report for 2022-23 and I would call on Councillor Atkins chair of the Auditant Corporate Governance Committee to present the report. Thank you chair. I'm delighted to present this report to members. It's a guaranteed page Turner if ever there was one. I'll start with an update I think on the external audit so members will be already be aware that past audits have been significantly delayed starting I believe with the 16-17 audit in common with some other authorities. I think at the last count only about 12% of local authorities were up to date with their reporting and audit requirements which gives you a sense of the challenges currently faced by the sector and by our partners in industry in meeting requirements. In the case of this council I think it's fair to say that there was a perfect storm of internal and external factors that contributed to a downward spiral in our ability to complete audits promptly. However I'm pleased to report today that those internal issues have been reversed although to be clear I take no personal credit for this. The team here at the council is now better resourced and with new leadership revamped systems and improved processes. Externally there has been a renewed focus from government and the wider audit industry to complete delayed audits in a timely fashion and we're therefore now benefiting from a positive spiral where both the finance team and external audit team are completing the necessary work much faster than before. So the 1920 audit which was signed off earlier this year was the first to be completed in under 12 months in some time and for more details you can see the table in the report. I'm also very happy to report that the 20 slash 21 audit field work is underway as we speak and is progressing well. Of course we can't give any concrete assurances midway through an audit because issues could obviously arise at any time but I can say that we're benefiting from a much larger external audit team which is being matched by some fantastic efforts from our own officers. As of today there are no significant issues to report and the audit is progressing in line with the fairly rapid timetable set out in the full report. The Audit and Corporate Governance Committee will of course continue to receive regular updates on future progress. The committee has also been very active in monitoring the work of internal audit, risk management, treasury management and governance as detailed in the report. I'd also like to draw members' attention to the bullet points listed on page 33 of our tax. There's some best practice there which we wanted to emphasise right across the council and your rewards for doing so are the delightful photos on page 34 which are clearly going to follow us for the rest of our political lives. I'd like to finish by thanking officers for their work of the past year and for all the councillors who served on the committee including Councillor Sanford as vice chair and Councillor Heather Williams as the need of opposition spokes. I'm happy to take any questions on this report that members have today. Thank you. Thank you for that report. Do we have any questions from members on that? Yes, Councillor Richard Williams first. Thank you very much chair and thank you very much for the report and the update. I just had a few questions. I noted the executive summary we referred to some problems with auditors but of course I think it's accepted this councillors had problems with its audit and we are further behind with our audits than other local authorities. You don't have to look very far to find local authorities who are much more further advanced for this and who use the same auditor so I don't think we can entirely blame external auditors but then again from the order report I'm not sure we are. My questions are really is it realistic thinking of the 2021 audit the forecast sign of date is September 2023 that's now six weeks away and if we're still in the audit field work stage is that still a realistic timetable and then my second question is once this if this timetable work set has proposed for the 2022-23 audit would we be then back in a position where we can complete audits in a timely way? I presume that's the intention. Thank you. Thank you for your questions which are very pertinent. In terms of the audit timetable that we're currently working to so to be clear that's targeting a sign off of the September audit committee which I think is a few weeks into September so I think we have perhaps one or two more weeks than the six you suggested but I have taken assurances that we are still on track for that timetable. The the field work is due to be complete in the next couple of weeks we've got a few weeks then for resolving any final issues and for some kind of quality assurance processes but I am still expecting to receive it at the September committee and then as to your broader point yes I mean as you can see from the kind of accelerated timetable the aim is to be up to date within a within the next kind of two years and and from then and by which point we will also have rotated on to a new audit firm and the ambition then would obviously be to keep these best practices and deficient workings that we've sort of had to develop by necessity and continue to complete audits in a in a really timely fashion and so that they can provide the kind of assurance that public and suppliers and other stakeholders would expect. Thank you. Councillor Anna Breddon. Thank you chair. Thank you Councillor Atkins. I just wanted to thank you for such a succinct and clear report from the Audit and Governance committee and I'm very much reassured by the simplicity of the format and the straightforwardness of the details that you put in it so it's not a question it's a statement I just wanted to thank you for a very clear report thank you. I think no comment is required on that I was going to say much the same thank you Councillor Atkins. We then come to item nine this is the extension to the six month attendance rule and the appointment of chair and vice chair of employment and staffing committee pages 41 42 of your printed papers and I call the deputy leader of the council to present this report and move the recommendations. Point of information please chair. Obviously this is the committee that oversees the four day week are all officers in compliance with the officer's code of conduct when it comes to the registering of non-procunery interests. Thank you. I understand on consulting the our legal officer that there is a process underway to investigate this and therefore it would be improper for council to discuss that while that legal process is underway so I'm going to ask you to wait for the outcome of that legal process and you may if you wish raise this at a future meeting of this council when that legal process has been completed. You can of course discuss it if you want to with the monitoring officer outside of this meeting. I then return to item nine I call on the deputy leader of the council to present this report and to move the recommendations. Thank you chair. Through you members will be aware that we have a six month rule whereby members who don't don't attend a meeting of the council can be disqualified and we have a situation with our colleague councillor Will Jackson Wood caused by a significant medical condition that arose and the proposal for this fortunately Will is now making a staggered return to work but we're trying to minimise his exposure to stress and otherwise avoidable work so that he can recover completely so the proposal before us today is to extend that period by a further six months so that he has a chance to recover completely. Due to his position as chair of employment we are also recommending to the council that they agree the appointment of Sally Han Hart as chair of employment and councillor Anna Brandon as vice chair of the employment and staffing committee. That's the proposal before the council. Do you have a second of your proposal? Oh that's councillor Williams. Thank you. Thank you chair. Just to say that I agree with the proposals that are put in front of us and the Conservative group just wanted to wish that councillor Will Jackson Wood a speedy recovery. I'm sure that is appreciated. Council can we take this by affirmation? Anyone against? Anyone wish to abstain? Council therefore agrees to that motion. Then proceed to reports. Item 10 of our agenda report of the Peterborough, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority. This is on pages 43 to 53 of your printed papers and the council is invited to note the updates from the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority. Do our representatives on the combined authority have any comments they wish to make? Councilor John Williams. Councilor Judith Ripeth. On the scrutiny committee just to say that as you can see from appendix 2 there's just been the opening meeting with the new committee members and that the chair of the CPCA opening scrutiny is councillor Charlotte Kane who is a councillor in East Cams and the vice-chair is councillor Andy Coles who represents her award in Peterborough City. That's all there is really to report so far. Thank you for those reports. I think I need only say that item is noted. We aren't required to take a vote on it. Item 11, Greater Cambridge Parchship is on pages 55 to 87 of your printed papers and the council is invited to note the updates from the Greater Cambridge Parchship. Do our representatives on the GCP have any comments they wish to make? I call on the deputy leader again. Thank you chair. Yes, I'll just briefly give an outline to the meetings that we've had since the last meeting of our council. So we've had a meeting of the joint assembly of the Greater Cambridge Parchship. We've had a meeting, the specially convened joint meeting of the executive board and the joint assembly to review their previous meeting and then we've had also an executive board meeting so that we could take the results of that careful and considered deliberation of the results of the making connections consultation exercise and we are now working on coming up with a solution to the let's call them objections to the making connections and the things that were supported in there principally the enhancement services for example and that's a work in progress to come up with an alternative to the original making connections proposals. Thank you. Thank you and before I ask any of our representatives on the GCP assembly if they want to add to that, does anyone have questions for councillor Brian Milne's? Yes, councillor Dr Richard Williams. Thank you chair. I have a question. It relates to the Greenway programme and really it's a request to ask for the support for this council and for its representative for the extension of the Sourston Greenway along the western edge of the Sourston bypass D1301 so that that links to an existing national cycle route to my village of Wittlesford. There has been some doubt expressed about that aspect of the Greenway programme and I just stress the importance of that Greenway extension so that it links with that national cycle route, it links to my village, it then provides a direct route to Wittlesford Parkway, it then provides the potential for onward extension of the Greenway to Duxford and it provides the potential for westwards expansion of the Greenway to Treplo and to villages like Falmere so that extension down the western side of the bypass is vitally important so can I please ask for this council's representative support for the maintaining that within the Greenways programme. Councillor Milne, have you wished a comment? Yes, thank you. Yes, I'm obviously as a local member for that area. I'm quite familiar with the Greenway proposition and you'll know that part of the problem is that we do have alternative routes to that so although that may be a preference to build that there is a route along the village college and down the old Cambridge road and there's going to be a further route into the village sorry into the city along the Seaset route so I will not make myself a hostage fortune by giving you an assurance that that will remain because in the budgetary pressure and bearing in mind that the 500 million that was the city deal would in today's figures be worth 664 million and we haven't had the advantage of being index linked so there will be pressures and I can't give you the assurance you're looking for. Councillor Williams did you want to come back on that? Well obviously I would only say that I'm disappointed by that Seaset doesn't provide an alternative to the links to Whittlesford and Duxford and as I say triple-one Falmere. I would emphasise again I've heard your answer but I would certainly argue for safeguarding that as vital they've extended the Greenway Act to a significant number of villages. Thank you. Thank you for that. Do you have any other questions or Councillor Milnes? Do any members of the Assembly wish to comment on developments? Thank you Councillor Milnes. I see no others. Thank you very much for your report. That item is noted. Ah yes I apologise. I hadn't noticed that Councillor Heather Williams who is on teams also wish to comment on this. Councillor Williams. Thank you chair. I just think it should be noted that the Assembly has discussed at length the making connection survey as Councillor Milnes referred to and we did indeed have a joint meeting which was but what I would say is that language is very very important and it'd be a reminder and I'd quite like to hear some assurances from the deputy leader that when as our board member he will be looking through that very carefully because we saw a very big debate based on language that could have been very much avoided and that's a reminder that everybody even if they are a lone voice should be respected for their views and given the space in which to raise their concerns. Councillor Milnes would you want to respond to that? I'm not sure I actually understood Councillor Williams point there. Clearly we are taking on board in the case of the making connections 140,000 different free tech censors for example so we are certainly taking account of all views expressed. Councillor Heather Williams are you reassured by that or did you want to not at all because Councillor Milnes was in the same meeting as I was. It wasn't a great display of all inclusivity of views and what I was referring to was language and specifically one of the things that was mentioned was if there's no STZ then do nothing and we spoke at length that that was not good language to use it was very negative and actually it's just not accurate and that's what I'm referring to and Councillor Milnes was at that meeting can I be assured that that will be looked at in future. Are you able to read anything Councillor Milnes? Chair I'm more than happy to take this conversation off line with Councillor Williams so I get a better understanding of the specifics that she refers to and if we haven't been using appropriate language then I'll certainly try and remedy that. That seems a sensible suggestion Councillor Heather Williams I would ask you to accept that assurance. Councillor Dan Lentell I think you had a question. Thank you Chair just to underscore the point made by Councillor Heather Williams the use of the language do nothing option the do nothing option is what Edinburgh did after the 2005 referendum in which I voted for a con-charge o to be young the do nothing proposal is about alternative ways of financing that don't place the burden on the poorest and the sickest in our society and I would remind council and our representative to outside bodies that Edinburgh has delivered trams and bus franchising even though those of us who voted for congestion charging in the 2005 referendum lost by a big margin so the language to say do nothing is disingenuous and at a time when this organisation the GCP's reputation has taken such a frankly terminal it in the public mind to be continuing this really awful kind of 90s spin cycle of you know using language that to to to denigrate or to under undermine a perfectly legitimate position which is that the so-called STZ congestion charging it's utterly unnecessary to deliver the kind of big ticket proposals that happened in Edinburgh after 2005 and actually it should change as a as a mark of respect to the fact that a lot of great things can happen even without congestion charging a hated and immoral new tax that puts a pay wall up between our residents and their health care thank you councillor lentel councillor mill did you want to respond to that no okay wouldn't note your comments on that and move to item 12 which is an update on the oxford cambridge pan regional partnership this is on pages 89 to 91 and again i invite the deputy leader of council to present this updated report this is going to be fairly quick from me because i because of the lack of notice that councillor Bridget Smith wouldn't be available for this meeting i haven't had a chance to consult with her over this so perhaps we can get a written report on any developments from the pan regional partnership in writing for the council if that's satisfactory chair so members if we may any questions on this item we'll deal with in writing subsequently i would ask council then just to note this report thank you council item 13 membership of committees and outside bodies i'm not aware that any changes need to be reported this meeting there are none so we move to item 14 questions from councillors and i remind everyone that a period of 30 minutes is available for questions this includes those questions where notice has been provided and if there's still being time remaining after the questions with notice we will deal with any questions which have been notified to the elections and empathic services manager before the start of this meeting if there are any questions on notice are not dealt with at the meeting then it will be for the preference of the member raising the question either to be included on the agenda for the next meeting or to receive a written response members will recall there was one question which we did not get to at the last council meeting and the request of councillor Richard Williams a written response was given which has been circulated so i now ask invite councillors to ask questions in the following order we start with councillor Daniel Lentel thank you chair as on the order paper councillor Milms we're going to respond to this hi i am chef thank you so through you the question refers to the immediate past chair of Cambridge County council so i might check with councillor Lentel through you for these referings councillor Stephen Ferguson but i'll just make sure that we're not aligning or applauding somebody who didn't deserve it um this idea that the gcp is fundamentally undemocratic is to misunderstand the nature of the city deal which was a contract between three councils the university and local business to deliver 500 million pounds to improve the infrastructure in anticipation of the growth in jobs and housing ffendon these camps and hunting the shire district councils were not signatories to that deal and although clearly the operation and deliberations of the gcp include the much wider travel to work area which does include those areas the clues in the name it was the city deal for greater Cambridge so the great crane bridge partnership was constituted to deliver the city deal um so i think that's as far as i need to go for the moment thank you councillor lentel did you have a supplementary i don't think the question was entirely answered which was the the councillor Ferguson had made it clear that the he didn't think it was right that his residents were excluded from some quite drastic decisions being taken by the gcp particularly including um congestion charging um but as a supplementary question one of my residents is a former chair of this council and uh they were describing to me that the gcp was always intended as a stop gap a stepping stone from the crazy paving landscape we've got now to unitary authorities and i had a long conversation with a very senior lib dem uh local government association person who said the only reasons that uh Cambridge here shouldn't go to unitary authorities is because the conservative party would control the north and the Labour party would control the south so my question is can council prime minister think of any better reasons why we shouldn't go to a unitary authorities i'm not sure that that follows directly from the original question but if councillor mills is prepared to answer that i don't know whether councillor mills is anything to add i think you i think you're absolutely right i don't think it relates to the original question chair so if i could clarify chair the question about democratic accountability which is fundamental to my written question is about the way that decisions are made in cambridge here and whether decisions are made for all of cambridge here and we've heard how it is that the gcp came into being we've heard why it is that the gcp doesn't include uh other areas of the county but the gcp was always intended to be a stepping stone and instead it's become a millstone and so i would i would be interested to hear why it is that we aren't doing what the gcp was actually set up to do by the person who set it up with one person by the way one one single part-time officer when it was first opened why isn't it that we are progressing towards the kind of slim down unitary authorities that would actually provide democratic accountability for the decisions about transport being made by us thank you thank you council and talk in the light of what you've just said i think we can regard that question as being within scope i wonder whether council mills would like to talk about the issue of a democratic representation is at the core of this i believe and the fact is that council Stephen Ferguson along with other of those of us who were county councillors have that mechanism for influencing decisions of the gcp one of us the county council is a third of the voting members of the gcp and that is the mechanism set up by the conservative government at the time in the government structure and it was part of a wider devolution concept that the city deals were created and delivered to various places around the country including our own so the democratic deficit that is claimed is non-existent thank you thank you councillors i can see that this is an issue we may come back to on future occasions next we have a question from councillor dr shribona bacharia councillor bacharia do you want to put your question thank you chair yes my my question is on the agenda thank you um i think councillor to me hawkins is also on teams council hawkins do you wish to reply to that or will you would you wish to submit a written reply i think councillor bacharia if you would allow we will secure your written reply to that question i'm happy with that i'm happy with that yeah knickers aren't can you hear me we now have councillor to me hawkins online so perhaps we can after all give you a verbal response to that no doubt supplement it with a written response if necessary uh sorry about that technology sometimes doesn't work the way we wanted to um the greta cain bridge shared planning uh confirm that the applicant uh that owns the site has not yet reviewed the scheme or engaged uh further on the next steps um the last update was around six months ago and obviously the economic environment is still difficult for developers as we're beginning to appreciate and it's unlikely that there will be any positive movement on this scheme in the short term we continue to hope of course that the high street of cambon will be developed to meet the needs of residents in cambon in future but we have limited ability to influence this position but if there's any updates we'll definitely will let you know thank you uh councillor batgeria um you can if you wish ask a supplementary question but i'm keen to move to those in the room if we can makes for a better no problem we can put it in the debate or in the next meeting or in the email my but my my i have a quick supplementary question that when you say the near future what do you mean by near future like next six months or next six years uh i'll probably say next six to 12 months okay thank you okay okay thank you both uh we then move to a question from councillor michael atkins thank you chair um with the recent publication of the east west rail route update report many residents in my warden across the district are deeply concerned about the impact this scheme will have on their homes and their communities uh how can residents best voice their concerns and seek changes to the scheme and how will the council and leader and the deputy leader support them councillor rhanolz thank you through you chair um obviously east west rail is a government project um and we are engaging with um both east west rail and the parishes that are principally affected with this to try and get the best outcome possible we've had several attempts to get the rail minister involved with this with with us directly and those attempts have been left in the sidings we'll continue asking for example ansony brown rmp to make representations to the ministers if we can't do it directly ourselves and actually that's the action that we would recommend or one of the actions that we recommend our local residents to take as well put pressure on east west rail to make sure the mitigations that they are discussing at the moment come through and reduce the impact the negative impact on local parishes along the route certainly there are local engagement meetings and online meetings that residents are able to join in with and we also recommend that thank you yes thank you chair and so accepting that this is a this is a government project in the direct role to make changes is limited could the leader in absence the deputy leader please update the council as to what engagements they and other members of the cabinet are undertaking with east west rail company to seek improvements to the scheme and represent our residents thank you i can just give a brief outline of some of the meetings that we've had that have involved east west rail so beth west and i have spoken probably three or four times at meetings including at rail local rail summits the online meetings uh england's economic heartland who are the sub regional network sorry transport body as well as transport east all of which have included east west rail so we're actively engaged with them acting on our residents behalf i then propose to move to a question from councillor susan van den councillor van den thank you small village food banks that have arisen in response to the cost of living crisis have seen continuing demand as the struggle to make ends meet persists for many people the road shows designed to ensure that cost of living support information is known and could be taken up where needed will be very welcome and those coordinating food banks are in a good position to share the recent addition of the mobile food hub is very welcome please can we have an update on progress so far who's going to respond to that councillor bill hangley thank you chair and through you as part of the sustainable food network councils officers contacted every known food bank in the south cams area the first and the first networking meeting of all of those food banks took place this week actually where discussions took place on how to work together and what the council might do in a way of support one element of support offered were leaflets outlining the help available from the council and an updated general cost of living leaflet and one encouraging those who are eligible to apply for council tax discounts um these leaflets will be distributed through the food banks um and in addition to this officers are also investigating the feasibility of running outreach sessions at the food banks themselves to try to reach those people who are most in need of help while being mindful of the stigma that's a that can be attached to it you know taking advantage of food banks with regards to the mobile food hub uh since it's launched it was only two weeks ago uh it was launched um it's started to visit three locations each week uh Duxford Papworth and Orchard Park the project is the first of its kind in our region and so far it's been very well received by residents um there are further proposed locations um at full-born in Willingham and Linton uh and further details of these will be announced quite soon um the decision as to which locations to target were taken by only mind sensors deprivation uh data which the council's own council's own data and the location of current food banks um that was to ensure that the the mobile food hub bridges the gap between what's existing um you know what would what the services are existing it's hoped that at the as the project progresses more families can be supported and more locations limited sorry visited uh if residents want uh to access this service all they need to do basically is to just turn up on the day no referrals needed um it's only been running for a couple of weeks it's not possible yet to report on the number of users but um this council will receive an update of all the cost of living schemes including this one at the next meeting thank you councillor van dervend you no supplementaries thank you for that we have a written question from councillor Halings who's not able to join us and has accepted that she will receive a written reply to that can i just remind councillors that in putting a question you can either read out the question as written or you can just say as tabled if you prefer that they'll save us some time councillor Stobart uh do you have a question i believe thank you chair yes i do it's as written um and concerns the shared prosperity fund thank you and uh who's going to cancel up Peter McDonald thank you chair um so as members may recall that south camps was allocated 1.7 million from the UK UK shared prosperity fund it has taken quite some time to get the uh grant funding agreements aligned and agreed with a combined authority and and do luck um but that that is now starting to happen uh the process or the or the schedule that is over three years so it's not just for this financial year and the high street project itself has an allocation of £200,000 um that this scheme is open to businesses parish councils community groups to apply for improvements made to the high street so that was one of the objectives that the availability of the fund was over quite a wide group of people it can be used for improvements in the vicinity of the high streets repainting of rails improvements of the appearance hanging baskets flower beds planters whatever people may uh uh think is appropriate for their local high street and in addition to that £200,000 a further £100,000 has been allocated working with Cambridge Constabulary in the community safety partnership to prevent incidences of ATM obviously that's a specific thing specific locations where ATMs are located um and that funding is available to purchase anti-rum raid uh equipment uh to preserve the integrity of the ATM and overall we're hoping to launch the scheme in November 2023. Councillor Stobart did you have a supplementary? A brief one chair thank you um so in amongst the benefits that Councillor McDonald's has just outlined what will be there for improving a lot of street traders who are working in these said high streets. Chair if I may answer through through you so as Councillor Stobart and other members may be aware we have a stall holder directory uh on the south cams website uh which we're always looking to increase it's it's a very diverse list it includes the catering vans that we know I think I think there are 10 listed on there and which are licensed through south cams but there are also you know artisan and crafts uh and uh various food and drink uh producers it or the objective is which is to link them with each other and to link them with the communities and that list is growing every day thank you. Thank you uh Councillor Dr Richard Williams. Thank you chair my question is as on the agenda uh who's going to Councillor Brian Mills again uh thank you um the environment agency position of worst supply and major developments has emerged through a series of issues with the local planning authority since july 2022 uh following approaches from the planning departments the environment agency seeking clarification of their position on the planning application for borne airfield in summer 2022 the e a position on two sites so borne and water beach was finally clarified in a letter from e a referencing an objection pending resolution of the w r m p d water resource management um process with cambridge water dated 16 of december 2022 and just as a little bit of background of this uh the environment agency's position on uh for example water abstraction licensing uh has been under review um we're all familiar with the uh particularly in this area the abstraction of water um to uh feed the crops uh and it's uh that's one of the components to the state of the water um availability in the district thank you. Councillor Williams did you have a supplementary? Yes I do chair um thank you very much council mills mills for that uh reply um I find that slightly shocking that for a year the council in one shape or form has been aware of the concerns of the environment agency but no steps were made to brief members on this members of the planning committee in particular but also members of the council more generally this is an incredibly important matter going forward so can I ask why uh there was no attempt to brief members about this as uh this seems to be known about um for quite some time are there any plans to provide members with a full briefing about this and was it deliberately withheld? Councillor Hawkins Councillor Milms and I think that I see Councillor Hawkins is also back online may like to add something to your response to this. Thank you um the answer to the last point was no and if Councillor Hawkins wants to uh make a contribution to the answer to that supplementary I'm happy to do so or we can give them a much more complicated uh sorry comprehensive answer possibly complicated to Freudian slip uh in writing and maybe maybe given the time period for questions we should do that. Yes I prefer one person to respond to each question as supplementary but I think Councillor Hawkins was trying to get online before and so I'd be happy to take a further response from Councillor Hawkins' indication. Through you chair thank you very much um the information was not deliberately withheld actually I can refer members to the uh annual monitoring report that we published uh I think was two months ago um on page 38 paragraphs 54 to 56 where it shows that we actually published the fact that the environment agency uh had been making uh had made objections and we had taken that into account in our housing trajectory and the five-year housing land supply calculations that we did so it's out there in the public domain and the only reason that there was no requirement at that point um to uh brief members is because the requirement uh from the environment agency was dependent on the water resource management plan that Cambridge Water only just um produced back in February consulted on and finished consultation in May so until the EA actually um adopts that or sees what it contains we cannot make a decision that it will affect a review of the application for Bornefield. Thank you chair. Thank you I'm conscious that Councillor Richard Williams you've had two answers and I wondered therefore whether you wanted a second supplementary question on this occasion. I wasn't expecting that chair um that that that's very generous um um I thank both members for those answers I take on board what uh council Hawking has said but that was again only published two months ago by which point it was in the public domain anyway because the um environment agency had published a letter themselves on the 23rd um of May so can I just urge um a briefing on this I think all members um would greatly appreciate it and benefit from it. Thank you council Dr Williams um we then move to councillor Graham Cone. Thank you chair as on the order paper. I think councillor John Williams you're going to respond to this. Yes thank you chair um given that we're in the middle of a 12 month trial uh to access assess whether we can address our recruitment and retention issues um and given that that decision was made um at a full council meeting uh within six months uh now it's not the right time to have the debate. At the end of the trial certainly we want and we have said all along that we want council to review all the evidence and to take any decision on next steps at that time. Councillor Cohn did you have a supplementary um thank you for that answer just just a brief one really just because that you know the majority of of councillors on this council haven't had a vote or a say on on the on the four-day work in week is it is it that the leadership is sort of running scared of the council to have the vote I know you say it's not the the right time to have that but I think when we make these changes and I know it's part of a trial but it's very hard to to reverse these things so I think it would be fair to councillors to to have a have a vote on it. Councillor Williams thank you I think it's fair that councillors should have all the evidence before them before they um make up their minds on the four day week and allowing a 12 month trial will give us that evidence to enable councillors to make that decision. I think looking at making looking looking at the trial in September means that basically would only have one quarter of one quarter's evidence before us and I don't believe that that is sufficient for councillors to be able to decide on the on the trial. We have said all along that if performance fail that we would stop the trial but all the evidence so far is showing that performance has been maintained or even improved so on that basis we don't feel that there is a need to review it at the moment and that the trial should be allowed to continue its full length to next April. Councillor Bunty Waters I think you have a question. Thank you chair um as on the agenda sheet thank you and I think councillor Milnes is going to respond to this. I am chair. I think I was wrong to say that councillor Milnes is going to respond to this I think councillor Hawkins is going to respond to this councillor Hawkins. Thank you very much chair um through you first of all I must say I'm disappointed at the misrepresentation in the number quoted in this question seems to be an opposition hobby these days. The number quoted is a housing need assessment that has not yet been translated into houses that can be delivered besides which of that need there already is 37 000 accounted for up to 2031 in the current adopted local plans 2018 of both councils and she voted for the south comes local plan back in 2018. Now the environment agency's position is that the growth needs to be assessed through a robust water resources management plan process which as I said in the previous answer the Cambridge water did and finished consultation back in May. However their current plan which was agreed by the EA and DEFRA was published in December 2019 and it took account of those 37 000 homes I already mentioned which were provided for through the site allocations in 2018 plan. So the EA's concerns centre upon the continued reliance on the assumptions in that plan published in December 2019. So the plan included growth assumptions obviously of those site allocations in the current local plan. Now of course when we published the first proposals consultation in 2021 we made it clear that the issue of water supply was a key consideration and we were clear it required resolving before we can actually put you know go on to adopt the emerging local joint local plan and we remain of that view and our recent letter which we sent on the first of June to the government makes clear the need for the concerns of the water supply to be resolved if we are to continue to see the growth in this area. Now as I said we have identified the need but the government also recognises the contribution that greater Cambridge as a whole makes to the UK as is clear from the recent press articles that we had last Sunday that they want the area to grow even more. I mean Mr Gove was one of the three recipients of our letter of first of June but he now proposes 250 000 homes in this area without even bothering to ask us about it or talk to us about it. Now whether we feel we can meet that need and the consequences of the area not doing so is a matter that we cannot determine until the issue of water supply has been resolved so we will always you know we're working with EA and water companies to understand what it is that will be done. Thank you chair. Thank you councillor Waters did you have a supplementary? Thank you chair I think so thank you very much for that response but perhaps then just as a planning councillor we can make sure that the water infrastructure is a free requisite for all significant growth here. Thank you. Right we're almost out of time but councillor Hawkins if you're able to give a brief answer to that that would be helpful. Chair through you we already are doing that every application is considered on its own merit and the Environment Agency are statutory consultees. Thank you. Thank you both. Now we have run out of time for questions there was a further question submitted due to be submitted by councillor Karen Garvey and I'm sorry that will have to be dealt with by in writing subsequently. We are next to move on to motions but before we do so I suggest we take a 10 minute break and return here let's say half past three if that's all right with members. Right welcome back to this meeting of south Cambridge District Council we are now at item 15 motions and I would remind members that there's a maximum period of 30 minutes allowed for each motion to be moved, seconded and debated and that includes dealing with any amendments at the expiry of the 30 minute period debate will stop immediately and the mover of the original motion has been amended than the mover of the amendment but the mover of the original motion will have the right of reply before the motion or amendment is put to the vote. So we have two motions before us this afternoon the first is a motion standing in the name of councillor Annika Osborne councillor Osborne do you want to put your motion please. Thank you chair. The motion is as you can see in the papers I'm asking South Cambridge District Council to join an increasing number of other councils in writing to Her Majesty's Government to call for a change in our outdated electoral law and to enable proportional representation to be used in the UK's general elections. The Liberal Democrats have long supported a system which allows voters voices to be heard. The outdated first past the post system disenfranchises voters who feel that their voices do not count in general elections. Governments have been formed with as little as 35% of the vote as with the majority labour government in 2005 and a majority Conservative government formed with only 37% of the vote while smaller parties' vote shares are not reflected. For example 2019 the Liberal Democrats received 11.5% of the votes but hold only 1.7% of the seats in parliament and the green party received 2.5% while representing only 0.2% of parliament. Proportional representation enables all votes to have equal value allowing MPs to better reflect age genders protected characteristics of the communities and of the nation and ending minority rule. I therefore ask this council to resolve to write to Her Majesty's Government to support proportional representation in general elections. Thank you. I do, Councillor Eileen Wilson. I'd like to speak later. Thank you. Right, we'll come back to you then. So other speakers on this motion. Councillor Cohn would you like to speak on this motion? Thank you, Chair. So I won't be supporting this motion firstly because I think there are a lot of things at this council that we have got control over and should be considering in terms of local government and this is a national issue. Personally I don't support proportional representation. I favour the system that we have and that's mainly due to electing a representative and feeling that that representative is accountable to my vote. I would also think there should be a referendum on electoral reform of this sort as well. So I personally won't be supporting this motion for those reasons. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Cohn. Then I think we have Councillor Bygwood. Thank you, Chair. I also will not be supporting this. I think the reason that we're here is to represent our villages and not to represent our parties. I think this motion is a naked bid of self-interest for the Liberal Democrat party in terms of trying to establish a political system which would lead to more representation for the Lib Dems. I would say to that, be careful what you wish for because there is a long history of this in the Lib Dems and their precursors, the Liberals, who made numerous changes to our constitution, one written constitution, who expanded the franchise several times, all in a bid to get more votes for the Liberals and they failed to realise that the Labour Party would come on the scene and so actually all the efforts of the early 20th century trying to rig a political system that would lead to Liberal governments led to the precise opposite and the Lib Dems have barely been a government at all since 1922 as a result. So we begin this motion talking about land-owning aristocrats and property-owning men and that sounds like an insult to the Tories but actually most of the 18th century was a period known as the weeks of pregnancy and many of these aristocratic leaders, Dukes of Newcastle, Devonshire, Portland and Grafton, the Markers of Rockingham, Little Grave, I Count Melbourne and Baron Grenville were all Liberals. So this is actually your own political heritage that you're actually criticising here. So our voting system is all about finding the best person to represent an area and focusing on that local area. It's not about political parties and it's not about political ideologies. One of the great dangers of a system of proportional representation is that it ignores local areas and hoovers up right across the whole country people with all kinds of strange ideas and I'm sure most Lib Dem voters would regard preventing extremism as being one of the parties core principles and yet proportional representation tends to lead to an increase in extremism because you're collecting people from all around the country with various extreme viewpoints and then putting them all together. Our first pass to the post makes it easier for independence to have a voice because independence are stronger in a local area and their voices are very important as we've heard from our Holy Council once earlier. It's important for independence who are locally based. So let's just have a look at the international record. I think we may be approaching three minutes so if you would draw your remarks to a conclusion please. So I will forego talking about the disasters of PR in all the different countries like Belgium and Germany and Italy and things and just to say that the people don't end up with the kinds of governance they want because of horse trading which can lead to corruption and it's actually the forming of a coalition where the government is formed rather than with the people because there are such a large number of parties. Thank you. Thank you. I think next we have councillor Dr Richard Williams. I think councillor Khan was before me but actually I'm happy to. If you're happy to give way then I'll call councillor Khan. I hadn't spotted councillor Khan. My apologies. I think it's a rather unfortunate comment about the extremism in terms of the first part of the post system seeing how the present government has moved towards the margins of the party's political viewpoints largely because of the first part of the post system and trying to include a maximum number of viewpoints within one party. But I really wanted to comment was that where people in this country have been given the chance of choosing which political voting system they want in the Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland they have gone for a proportional system and that applies also to local elections so I would comment that this is very much applicable to local elections and I'm not speaking that in terms of the local Liberal Democrat interest because in this area first part of the post has worked to the favour of Liberal Democrats. We got 80% of the local councillors and we had only 48% of the votes in the last election so it's not in our interest but it is in our interest of sales of justice in terms of representation of what people's viewpoints you vote people mainly vote for the how I say the general viewpoint that people present in Parliament in local government or in the election where they are in the forum where they are it's you elect in a representative democracy somebody to have the right approach problems you're not telling them exactly what to vote in each system just say you've got that approach and the so I would comment that I mean to give you the examples of what's happened in all in Scotland where the local system is determined by the Scottish Parliament the local government is elected by proportional system in Northern Ireland both both assembly also you have that system Wales has recently been given the choice has passed the act and from 2027 each council will be able to choose which system it wants but it's given the opportunity to have a proportional system when they're given the choice local areas want a proportional system to represent them by local members so the the point that you make about representation is not it's not actually a valid one in fact they've chosen systems to which there is a local representative so there is a link between the area and there is also a proportionate system so I would comment that I would hope that if this the proposals that this motion was carried there would also be carried at local level the assumption has been that if you have general elections it would also be at local level but that's something I wish to emphasise is important and I would very much support this motion I think it's a very it's a matter simply of justice and proper representation of people that you're you're representing and without that you without a proportional system you cannot thank you councillor calm before I call the next speaker you said you made some points about representation I didn't make any points about representation please be careful to address your remarks to the chair in a space this nature councillor Richard Williams okay thank you very much chair just to pick up on one thing councillor can't say that he's quite right that the Liberal Democrats have done very well I did first pass the post and if they really really do believe in proportional representation they can start here I'm sure my group would love to take up some council committee spaces and some council chairs if you wish to put your principles into action in this council but I rather suspect you won't anyway on to the core motion now as councillor Cohn and councillor Bygot have said I would much rather we were talking about things that are actually within the control of this council we all know the Liberal Democrats favour proportional representation we all know that at the end of this debate you're going to vote in favour of proportional representation Lib Dem council backs PR shock it's not really much news and I would rather we were talking about something that's actually relevant to our residents we can control but anyway on the substance of it now there are various assertions in this motion about PR ensuring all votes count and all votes have equal value and seats one match votes cast that is not always or necessarily the case with PR that only works with a list system of PR so we've got a motion before us talking about PR but what version of PR are we talking about a list system in which case we break the link between politicians and constituents and we give power to party managers who decide if people are MPs or not depends if you get on with your party whether you get on the list or not completely break the control of local voters to control who MPs are that's not actually a very popular system in the world most systems are PR are not actually pure PR and then you lose the proportionality so it's not simply PR proportional all votes count first pass the post bad it doesn't that's not the way the world works Wales has been mentioned it's a country about which I know a little better and follow at the last Welsh parliament elections the Labour party got 38% of the vote and 50% of the seats that's in a system that is supposedly proportional it's not actually that proportional we never got a choice actually about the electoral system in Wales we were given it and we never got a referendum choice on that so when you talk about PR what PR are you actually talking about are you talking about mixed member system are you talking about a list system are you talking about the de Honte system there are many many many versions and as I say they're not necessarily all proportional so I think there is a flaw at the heart of this because there is an assumption that PR is proportional as I say when it is not necessarily so there is also a claim about you know PR ends minority rule PR doesn't end minority rule Chancellor Schultz his party got 25% of the vote in the last German federal elections he's still the Chancellor and actually if you go back through elections in the UK if you did have a PR system if it was a straight proportional list system the prime minister you'd get pretty much the prime minister you've got anyway so I do not support this motion and I do not support proportional representation I believe first pass the post provides decisive clean government and the people are sophisticated enough to use it and sometimes that works against my party sometimes it works in our favor thank you then I would call council then tell thank you chair um I'm not in favor of uh PR but I was elected as a Lib Dem and I think it's right that I vote on for this motion um the one point I would make with the council of bygott um the Lib Dems don't benefit from PR in London in 2000 uh the Lib Dems got four seats 18% of the vote was first pass the post 14% was on the list uh the previous London election assembly elections in 21 uh Lib Dems got two seats uh 10% of the first pass the post but her pop there you go you pretend I said that right uh and uh 7% of the list votes uh the London mayoral elections of course done by a supplementary system in 2000 the Lib Dems came forth uh with 11.9% and in 2021 they came forth with 4.4% uh failing to get into the second round both times in Scotland in uh 1999 the Lib Dems under Mike uh under Jim Wallace got seven 17 seats 14% of the constituency vote 12% of the regional vote in 2021 the Lib Dems got four seats with 6% of the constituency vote and 5% of the regional vote again in Wales in 1999 the Lib Dems got six seats 13% of the FPTP vote and 12% of the list vote in 2021 one seat with 4% of the vote and uh in both the uh first pass the post and the list systems there's a reason Lib Dems lose elections and it's not the voting system the reason Lib Dems lose elections is because they take up policy positions like congestion charging that are massively unpopular and the result is as we saw in our own council the late much lamented John Lovelock won uh in 2022 with uh 15 uh 144 votes and councillor Wilson won with 864 votes a 40% decrease that is very similar to the historic Longstatton oaking to the north stone by election that brought councillor bygot back into this room proportional representation is the wrong answer to the wrong question because ultimately what matters in a democracy isn't how the votes are cast it's how they're counted and what happens next and what we're seeing in our part of the world is a huge mandate for the Lib Dems to deliver for the residents of south Cambridgeshire and for our colleagues on the blue team to take some time out and what have we got we've got a congestion challenge can i ask you to draw your remarks to a conclusion please i will be voting for this because i believe we have to listen to the voters and i was elected as a Lib Dem and that's the right thing to do but the other right thing to do is to listen to our voters even when we don't agree with them thank you chair thank you councillor Lentell i councillor Ellington thank you chairman i will not go on very long i think there's two things i want to say one is that i think it's desperately important that there is a named individual that the particular area that's voting knows recognizes and believes will do what they want them to do um and he's not just a political figure um that somebody ticks the right box to to vote for so i think it's very much more important to be an individual than it is necessarily to be aligned with any particular party that's my personal view and i shall not be voting for this but the other thing that i think is quite important is that when you get proportional representation it tends to lead to stronger voices in smaller parties with very outlandish ideas being stuck in a room together to try and solve a problem which they don't solve as i think the Irish government are finding right now so i really do feel that this is not a step forward it would just be a step back thank you thank you councillor Ellington i now call on councillor drew not did i carry on councillor um i'm always struck by the fact that it is often the case that elected politicians seem to believe that both themselves and the voters are unable to cope with more than one thing at once the statement we hear in so many parliaments and council chambers of oh we ought to just be focusing on this or focusing on that and we are apparently allegedly intelligent politicians who might be able to be more than one thing at once and i think that is entirely reasonable for the Liberal Democrat group to put forward a proposal which they believe would improve the lots of voters so therefore the induction the introduction of portrait representation would improve politics i'm also eternally struck by the opposition of our Conservative colleagues to portrait representation in what seems to be an incredibly particularist way as if somehow because we are British we know better and the French the Dutch the Belgians the Danish and all regions the Swedes the Italians and the Germans and such like they have such terrible government they have such awful government i recognise that our Conservative colleagues may well not chair wish to think this is what they are saying but this is basically what they're saying what they are saying is that portrait representation systems used on the continent of Europe somehow fail the people of Europe i believe that actually if we look at the economic growth of our European colleagues over the last 70 or 80 years we look at issues of social cohesion if we look at issues related to disparity of wealth and income we will actually find that perhaps their portrait representation systems have done them quite well regarding the fact that apparently people sat in a room are unable to find a coalition coalition seems to be this scary word in British politics as if somehow it's a bad thing yet all over the world coalition governments are normal they are the norm for almost every other country in the world again i am struck by this idea that what because we are British we can't do what those other people do i would also suggest that the idea that having a first parcel post system avoids extremism is really a very poor argument to make um regardless of whether or not we think it's relevant to us i would posit that a government minister ordering the painting over of murals of mickey mouse in a children's detention centre for refugees is extremist behaviour that is a single party government elected under first parts of the post we have nothing to fear from portrait representation and finally as my three minutes come along yes as little democrats we do often propose things that harm us that's because we believe in the people and we believe in what is right and if harms us so be it because it will make the country a better place thank you councillor mills thank you chair um i really would like to have a longer conversation with councillor byger to unpick many of these fatuous arguments that i've heard today in the chamber so look forward to that opportunity um the mayorality i'll give you as an example of the Tory's attitude to first pass the post versus uh uh proportional representation when proportional representation was found to not deliver the results they wanted they reverted to first pass the post in 2019 the Tory seats needed 38 000 votes to elect an MP it took 51 000 roughly for Labour MPs to be elected 336 000 for a Lib Dem to be elected how the results of that election were a fair representation in parliament of the voting intent you can't answer that because there was no linkage between the number of votes gassed and the seats gained and we got Boris Johnson followed by Liz Truss voter suppression jacobries mogg who was until felling recently a cabinet minister actually accepted that voter ID was a gerrymandring exercise the opposition the conservatives would have used anything to remain in power and that's why we really need to move as fast as possible to probably a single transferable vote proportional representation system but a proportional representation system would deliver the results that the people wanted thank you thank you councillor melms i would urge members to stick directly to the subjects in the motions as far as possible i don't see any other speakers so we now come back to councillor eileen wilson who is seconding the motion thank you chair i'm very pleased to have the opportunity to second this motion first past post is a relic from a bygone age and does not have its place in a 21st century society proportional representation ensures that every vote counts and results in an outcome that better reflects the will of the electorate it could also go some way to encouraging those who don't vote because they believe that voting doesn't make a difference it might make them next time go out and vote thank you for keeping your remark short we come back to councillor annika osborne to sum up her motion thank you chair i have nothing further to add and i've put motion for a vote thank you right thank you we have a proposer a seconder and as proposed therefore we move directly to the vote we will uh we have a proposer and a seconder we have summed up the debate is this a point of order i will not be voting because i missed the start of the debate thank you for that declaration um i would urge any members who may feel that they have not heard the full debate to consider whether they're in a position to vote but having said that i think we now move to an electronic vote indeed we have already started you know that we press the blue button first and then if you're in favour of the motion you press the green if you're against it you press the red how many have you got in the room thank you um i suspect somebody will have heard me nonetheless but my microphone wasn't on so that motion is passed by 24 votes to five we then move on to the motion standing in the name of councillor natalie waran green um councillor waran green would you like to move your motion can we take down the vote and then we'll start again thank you chair the floor thank you a motion proposed by county councillor for roos thompson was approved by cambridge a county council on the 16th of may 2023 whereby a commitment was made to support childminders across cambridge to set up and relocate at present parents and carers can access 15 hours per week and funded child care for children aged three to four with working parents able to access an additional 15 hours 30 hours in total vulnerable two year olds are also able to access 15 hours per week of funded child care in the spring budget central government announced that there'll be an increase in child care support available to families to be rolled out in stages over the next two years this will start from april 2024 and will assist with child care for children as young as nine months is therefore expected that demand across the county will increase and will provide an opportunity for childminders to set up businesses to satisfy the demand in their localities childminders play an important role within the community offering flexible childcare to a stricter number of children per house however data shows that cambridge show there's a downward trend in the number of childminders available in south cambridge and the data shows that the number of childminders operating the new developments is lower than those operating the surrounding villages despite targeted recruitment campaigns it's been brought to the attention of officers of cambridge a county council and staff working for the professional association of child care and early years called pacy the restrictive covenants on new build developments are common and prohibit occupants from running a business from home which includes childcare whilst it's possible to have a government revoked it's never guaranteed in north stow which is part of my ward we have one established child minder for the 123 children eligible for funded childcare in contrast to the neighbouring long stanton also in the ward which has 76 children eligible and six childminders in water beach there are three childminders for the 156 children eligible for funded child care in contrast to cottonham which has 142 children eligible for a funded place and six childminders whilst camborn is now an established settlement with building starting in 1998 it's clear that there's a high demand for childminders with 22 currently in operation with camborn west underway it's essential that steps are in place to enable new residents the same opportunities and to prevent additional pressure on childcare places i'm pleased to share in this motion that already greater cambridge shared planning service has been discussing this blanket covenant with homes england who are now aware that the restriction on childminders works at cross purposes with their intention that residents of new builds have a positive experience living in their homes in addition sustainable community aims require residents to be able to access work education and all services by either active travel or public transport so today i'm aiming to gain support to enable childminders living in the new developments across south cambridge to establish businesses from their homes this will mean that they're exempt from the covenants in place for strategic new developments specifically i'm requesting as indicated in the motion firstly the scdc commence meetings with homes england and other house builders active across cambridge cambridge to a address their child care crisis for the new communities being delivered as part of the current adopted local plan of 2018 and being in view of the predicted growth engage them in policy development to achieve buy-in for policy that will meet the needs of child care providers and families in the emerging joint local plan and secondly the greater cambridge shared planning service if possible will develop a planning policy regarding childminders that will include feedback from the engagement with house builders and stakeholders across greater cambridge and organisations like pacy to ensure that the needs are balanced across all the interests of the community so that childminders are exempt from a blanket covenant to restrict businesses being run from homes so these actions are attended to enable childminders and parents of young children to benefit from the support included by the government in the spring budget in time for the launch of the proposed funding for child care from April 20 24. Thank you very much. You're welcome to repeat your last few remarks because I was speaking at the time and I will repeat those last three sentences which these actions that I'm asking for are intended to enable childminders and parents of young children to benefit from the support included by the government in the spring budget in time for the launch of the proposed funding for child care from April 20 24. Thank you, chair. Thank you. Is your motion seconded? It is. Is your seconder? Ah, councillor Rydd. Yeah, I'm happy to speak now or later. Yes, I'd like to speak now if I may. Floor is yours. I'm happy to be and honoured to be asked to second this motion to be able to offer a full range of child care options on new towns. It's all part of placemaking. Those options may be preschools, nurseries or in home setting with a child minder. Different settings are important because they suit different children and their families. Each individual family has varying needs and different priorities. It's about access to choice. Child Minding is part of early years education. It is regulated by Ofsted with precise adult to child ratios, according to the children's ages. Childminders are inspected by Ofsted and awarded ratings, such as outstanding good. They plan their activities learning through play and experiences. Childminders meet up in parks, take the children to play groups, music sessions, music sessions, et cetera. They are close knit, supportive community groups in themselves. When it comes to building a community, be that an established one or a new one, every age group has a right to be a part of that. It's about nurturing and socialisation. Moving to a new community can be very isolating. Living a new place to you as a parent where there's often no extended family nearby can be very detrimental to mental health and feel very limiting. Our society and the world of work has changed and we need to help to address this issue. Nurseries can also be very expensive beyond the means of many middle learners. Child Minding is often the only viable option. Becoming a childminder with very young children of your own can also be a financial lifeline when returning to a previous career post maternity leave or parental leave isn't a viable option. Childminders are actually the backbone and unifying thread of the child care system. New towns need to be about providing opportunities across each demographic, nurturing the youngest in society and supporting parents is one of the most crucial aspects of our society to get right. It pays us back in space in the long run. I hope you will support this excellent motion brought to council by councillor Tilly-Wong Green. This is what being a modern caring council is all about. Thank you councillor. If I think we next move to councillor, councillor Ellington. Thank you. I'm not sure I have no problems with this so I would be happy to vote for it but I'm not sure that it's not a storm in a teacup. My understanding of covenants is that the person that puts the covenant on a particular building is the only person who can actually demand that that covenant is adhered to and my experience of developers is that they aren't prepared to even come and take responsibility for a house that's flooded due to their bad design and build and I fear very much that actually enforcing the covenant is so unlikely to happen. I'd like to know when and if it's ever happened already. And I take it you're not expecting an immediate answer to that question. We then move to councillor Lentel. Thank you chair. Just to say that I 100% support this motion. It's exactly as councillor Ryfydd said, child minding is the backbone of childcare. I've been a stay at home dad since 2015 and we are phenomenally fortunate in over and willing to have some absolutely brilliant child minders and also of course preschools. While I accept the point that councillor Ellington is making, I just don't think the owner should be on potential business owners or business creators to have to try to get the covenants changed. So the thing that I would suggest is that this motion be passed. I also think it's worth having a conversation about whether the, as councillor Ellington said, whether developers could simply start just waving the covenants voluntarily rather than requiring great deals of action from us. I'd also say, look, you know, there are lots of businesses, many of which are run from the home by women, which frankly, these covenants are restrictive of and they aren't a good idea in general, but in this particular instance they're absolutely appalling and they need to be got rid of. Thank you. Thank you, councillor Cohn. Thank you, chair. I will be supporting this motion. I think it's important to get that conversation started with Homes England and their house builders. I think much of what I would say on this has already been said. I think, you know, taken on board councillor Ellington's comments, I think it is important that, you know, we really look hard at, you know, where we can make a difference in this conversation, but as councillor Rip has said, anyone with children will know how difficult this situation has become. Thank you. Next I call on councillor Bagot. Thank you, chairman. So this motion has my unqualified support. I would like to congratulate councillor Warren Green for having identified this issue and brought it to attention because I think it is quite a serious problem that we have. I think these sorts of covenants are possibly motivated because people have in their minds eye some kind of business that would be greatly disruptive to other residents, some kind of noisy business that has, you know, people banging hammers and stuff all day. And people, it's quite common in our society for people to make rules with that sort of thing in mind, not realising that it has a huge unintended consequence. So children are the future of our society and it's very, very difficult for young parents today. Our society has made it extremely difficult for people to have children and to raise those children. And I think that anything that makes it easier for young families and takes some of the pressure off them is a thing that we should dump support. So, very well done. Thank you, chair. I am one of the examples that Judith Griffin was talking about. I in my previous career as a solicitor then had my first child and on doing the sums and obviously wanting to have some interaction with my child outside or during nine to five I chose to become a child minder and to take in other people's children with my children. I was able to offer one of my clients flexibility because she needed to start at 7.30 in the morning and also I was able to support one family where there were children at school age and a younger child. These cannot always be done in nursery settings and more formal settings. So I would like to thank Natalie for telling Councillor Warren Green for bringing this matter to our attention and I fully support this motion. Next, I call on Councillor Wilson. Thank you, chair. I speak from experience when I say that it's a very stressful experience going back to work after having a child and then having to find childcare. I was speaking with a resident in my village who actually runs two day nurseries. She started off as a child minder then moved on to nursery provision and she was telling me, we were talking on a separate matter, that the nurseries she knows about, once she runs, then the cottonham day nursery that was opened only a few years ago and nurseries in other villages are all full with waiting lists that won't open until September 2024. So people who move into this area won't have a day nursery place. So unless they can find one of the red child minders who has a place, they're actually prevented from taking up work or from taking up the work hours they want. In addition to that, she pointed out to me that child minding is one of the main planks of the government's new childcare provisions that are coming online and it will rely on more and more child minders separately in new communities having child minders who are allowing parents to leave their children with child minders who live in their own community and those child minders will network together and build bonds with the parents and the other child minders and the children. It can contribute to social cohesion and prevent isolation so I fully support every aspect of this motion. Thank you, Councillor Wilson. Next I propose to ask Councillor Jimmy Hawkins who is on teams to contribute to the debate. Thank you very much, Chair. Given the recent announcement from Michael Gove wanting to build 250,000 houses in this area, this is quite a very timely motion. Hopefully that outlandish idea will be put to one side, but in any event new communities that we're building now trying to deliver as part of adopted local plans definitely will benefit from some of this which is why the discussion has started with Homes England. In the short term, I think looking at you from the planning viewpoint, it might be that rather than a blanket policy we could start with introducing through section 106 that specifically enables local child minding, but then for the emerging local plan, yes, for the discussions can continue to see whether or not we can put this together as a policy, but either way we definitely would like to see something come forward you know with this and fully support the motion and I would recommend that we all do. Thank you very much. I think this is an excellent motion. We voted for it at county council and I'm very glad that it looks as though people are likely to vote for it here and like others, my concern is that we as in our local plan we have planned for developments as new towns not scattered amongst our village and infilling villages and where we have developers developing new towns these are the kinds of developments that have these blanket covenants applied to them and what's really important is that any qualms people might have about the proximity of these businesses to others will be dealt with by off-stead. Childminders are inspected by off-stead. So you know we do not need to worry about concerns about the number of children or the hours that they're being hosted because this is covered by very careful legislation. So I'm very glad that members are looking as if they're minded to support this motion because I think it's an excellent motion and we really need to make provision for childcare going forward in order to enable parents to continue to work. Thank you. Next I call Councillor heaven Leaming. As this motion focuses on new developments I would like to add the perspective of an old new town, Cambon. New towns have unusual demographics with higher numbers of young families and young children than a more established town or village. In addition they're more likely to have families without support networks around them as people move into the area as first residents. These are communities that need childcare. Having a wide range of flexible high quality affordable choices is essential to help people manage their lives in a way that works best for them. For some families, childminders are the best option to suit the needs of their children. Parents may feel that education and care in a home environment suits their child best. They may wish for siblings to be cared for together with wraparound care before and after school. Children can be involved in many local groups, coffee mornings and outdoor play with children who live in their local area or they may wish to attend an after school activity. I've seen this firsthand in Cambon as a local parent witnessing the excellent work of this team of childcare providers. Childminders play an important role in building young communities and creating networks of support that are important for well-being. Their impact on the local community is positive. Childminding is not a standard business and it's unfortunate that Homes England overlooked clarifying this when issuing guidance around running a business from home. Childminding offers an alternative to nursery and later after school childcare options, both of which are often oversubscribed. As Councillor Warren Green stated, Cambon currently has 22 registered childminders. This figure has fallen from a peak of 33. We can only speculate on the reasons for this reduction but Pacey, the professional association for childcare in early years, said they felt it reflected the declining numbers seen nationally and it appears significant because numbers are high. The demand for places still exists and many settings are still full without available places. Childminders in Cambon are also attracting families who don't actually live in Cambon but travel past on their way to work. Restricted covenants that can tell the provision of this high quality, highly regulated childcare in new towns adds to a sense of isolation and frustration in new communities. These covenants also limit the employment opportunities of young working adults who may struggle without local provision. The lack of local childcare increases car dependency and puts additional pressure on neighbouring childcare provision in villages surrounding new-build areas. For these reasons I support the proposal suggested in the motion that the council takes an active stance to promote and support childminders to be able to offer their much needed services in new communities as part of our commitment to building places where people want to live. Thank you. I see no other speakers so I Councillor John Batchelor. Yeah thanks very much. Just to say wearing my hat as the lead member for housing that free information that we do not have any obstacles in the way of our tenants becoming childminders, there's no covenants or anything like that. Childminders obviously have to meet the obligations of the licensing authorities and so on but other than that we're happy that people run a business from home. Thank you. Thank you. I just note in passing that Councillor Richard Williams has had to leave us. I then come back I think to Councillor Warren Green to sum up on him. I think we've actually heard a lot of positivity around the room. I think we should take on board some of the thinking around how many people, I mean how many builders are actually putting the covenants in place. I think that could be looked at as part of the investigation and the discussions with them so I thank Councillor Ellington for that point and thank you everybody else for the positivity and I think we could go to vote. Thank you. Thank you. We then proceed directly to an electronic vote. It is suggested that we might do this by affirmation. We've set up the vote. I prefer an electronic vote on these motions so if you vote, if you want to vote in favour of the motion obviously it's green if you want to vote against press red if you want to abstain press yellow. I think we've all voted noting that Councillor John Williams said he wouldn't be voting and it is rare that my memory is too long it's usually the other way around. I think that we have all voted 28 votes and we appear to be all in favour so perhaps I should have accepted Councillor John bachelor's suggestion but we are all in favour. So that ends our motions for today. Before I move to Chair's Engagements or perhaps as part of Chair's Engagements I think it was remiss of me not to have mentioned the passing of former Councillor Robin Page who died recently. Robin was one of the authority's original councillors representing Barton Ward from 1973 right up till 2006 and then the Hasingfield Ward after a short gap from 2012 to 2016 as an independent. I think many of us some of us knew him as councillors. I didn't actually know him as a councillor. Many did some here did but many of us knew him for his conservation work outside the council and for his TV work and regular column in the Daily Telegraph and so our thoughts are with former councillor Page's family and friends. I think it was right that we should mark his passing. Members, Chair's Engagements just to give you a verbal update. I've only had one engagement since you kindly elected me to the post which was the reception given by the High Sheriff Dr Barat-Kumar Ketani at Wisbeach on 28th June. My vice-chair has however attended a couple of events, the Memorial Day ceremony at the American Cemetery on 29th May and the Civic Leaders Open Day at RAF Molesworth on 22nd June. This draws the, no it doesn't, not quite. I want to add one more thing which is that if members think of some event or engagement in their ward or indeed beyond where they think it would be helpful to draw the attention to the involvement of the South Cams District Council, I would be very happy to attend if invited. So perhaps members would just consider that. That said this does draw the this meeting of the council to a close. The next council meeting will be held at 2 o'clock on 5th October and I therefore close this meeting at 4.26pm. Thank you very much.