 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. With Millwall, it was so secretive. That's why I've just come on after all these years. But because of my near-death experience, I've got to get the stories out. One of them put a glass in one guy's face, one done one with a bottle. And it was all blood running down the terraces. I'm nearly 65. I've been done many times at football. There's no shame in that. Because the amount of rounds you're going to be in, you're going to get done. You're going to get done. It's just what they call the law of averages. So there were 12 of us. We run 120. We run and they dropped their weapons and the bird man through a petrol bomb that went 64 up in the air. And as they were all trying to get away, they dropped their weapons, James. And there was a big pile of them all falling out and we just gave them a terrible beating. Millwall's thrown a hand grenade on the pitch at Brentford. Bummer on. And today's guest, we've got Millwall's top boy, Jinger Bob. Bob, how are you? Oh, all right, James. Good to see you. Good to see you, too. But a few of the football millions own. My story's no doubt you would have came face to face over the years. But Millwall is always the top boys. As far as I know, they were always the one at the forefront. Even to now, people just say they keep churning out my admin. Always I talk fun. Biggest in Britain, as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of people make disagree. But even the football casuals I've had on, they've always said Millwall was always up there. First and foremost, how are you? Not too well. Well, I've been here all but I've come through it and I'm here. Good to see you. Good to see you, too. Before we get into all the madness, I always go back to the start of my guests. Where do you grow up? How it all began? Yeah, right. I was born in a place called the Elephant Castle on the 29th of March, 1958. And I was brought up in Peckham, just stone's throw away from Millwall. How was your upbringing as a kid? Like parents are around, good schooling? Or did it start off crazy? I had very, very good parents. But it was always, I had a rebellious side to me. So I was always, I don't know if it was because when I first went to school at five and then junior school, secondary school, I was always bullied being a ginger boy with like freckles. I was bullied. So I had to stick up for myself and I got in a terrible lot, lots of fights. When I was eight, I had a fight in front of the whole of the school with the bully of the school. He was 11. And I give him a good beating. As an eight year old, this boy was a foot and a half bigger than me. And from a young age, I knew I could fight. I was always good with my hands. And after I went home, the bully I beat up, his parents came around my mother and father's house and was complaining about an eight year old boy beat 11 year old boy up. But that's very sad. But I used to have a lot of trouble from a young age. Is that where the violence came from then trying to defend yourself a lot? Well, when I grew up in Peckham in the 60s, they used to bully the white kids, used to bully the black guys and the Asian guys. If they weren't around, then it was the, because I was different, ginger boy, they'd pick on me. So I couldn't get any peace. I was always under pressure. So that sort of, that brought the worst out of me. And that would be going to football. I was going to football from a four year old at Millwall. And I joined the gang, we call it firm, as an 11. I was a boy skinned at 11 and I joined the gang then. What was your first proper tear up for Millwall, what age? As an 11 year old, there was tear up. What happened? I was standing on the halfway line and I was still with my father then. And 50 big guys came in early, a Bristol city, leather jackets. And I went out to him. I said, fellas, don't stand there. Go up, go up to the way. And because the boys had been in a minute and they turned around and said, fuck off you little buck, little wanker. And I said, fair enough. And then the guy who founded Millwall in 64-65 season, it's a continuation from the mods. A guy called Dave Rand, they called him the Captain because he had a beard, a feather cut. He came in with, he was in his, he would have been in his mid 20s and you had all the 18, 19 year olds, all these youngsters. This is the early days. And they came in and it was like, it was like a film. You know, Russell Crowe, the gladiator. But he came in and he cut a hundred of guys and he just pointed like that. And then two of the younger guys, well-known guys, I won't name their names, they're still alive now. And one of them put a glass in one guy's face, one done, one with a bottle. And it was all blood running down the terraces. But I did tell the guys, don't stand there, because you're going to get yourself in trouble. But when you were a little kid, no one's going to respect you. They just think, oh, a mouthy little kid. So I wasn't involved in the fight, but I was there. But the first proper fight was involved with West Ham as well. That was when we were playing Orient. And what happened? I was on the train. I was 13. I was with my father. And what happened? West Ham's myelin firm was at whopping. And what happened? They broke into, they got all these pickaxe handles and stuff. They broke into stuff at the station and got all these iron bars. And what happened? We was all packed on the train. And the first couple of guys who came out, it's like beating them. But once we got out and we got on the platform with them, there was like a massive fight. But we pushed them back and we got the better of them. But that was the first one that I was really involved with. I was 13. What when you realise this is what you wanted to do? It's like a disease, the adrenaline rush. And it's very, very hard to get out of, I'm not sure. Yeah, so a lot of people who don't understand it, who's never done it, will never understand why people do it. Was it such a buzz for you? Did it make you feel alive? Especially if you're being bullied at school to then feelings part of something. Is that what keeps it king defiant? It was like at Millwall. If you get Millwall taught in the master of Chelsea in West Ham, it's like the five families in New York, like the mafia. And with Millwall, it was so secretive. That's why I've just come on after all these years. But because of my near-death experience, I've got to get the stories out. I've got a photographic memory, and I can remember stuff in the 60s and 70s and 80s like it was yesterday. With Millwall, it's, how can I put it? It's very, we're very tight. We're very tight. Before I got to the top of the firm as a young age at 17, when I was 15, I had my own little firm as well, like a sub firm with all people from the age of 15 to 17. And I will give you two instances of what happened at 15. We played Aston Villa, the match had finished, and when you're young, you think you're invincible. And I happened to have my best trousers on and I'd still toe-cap Brogues. So I went down to the after Aston Villa, down at what they call New Cross Great Station on my own, the police are there, and they thought it quite amusing. They let a German shepherd, and the German shepherd grabbed a hold of my ripe butter, and it sunk its teeth in Ripley trousers. So I knew when I'd get home, I'm going to get beaten from my dad. So what happened? I swung, the dog got swung, I swung the dog off, and what I did, not that I'm, because I love animals, but because of the situation, I kicked the dog in the face and a couple of its teeth come out. So the police chased me up the platform and a mile down the road, but I got away. That was April 73, I was just 15. And then we played a match, we're not in a forest, and we only took like a hundred firm up there, and most of them got thrown in the train. I was lucky that day, I didn't get beat, but we was under pressure. So we played them on a Tuesday in a lead cup match. We lost the lead match 3-0, but we beat them in the lead cup. I was at what they call the back of the halfway line, and a little kid come up, he said, Bob, Bob, they're here, they're up there. What happened? There was 40 Roman egyptian guys from Newark, forest boys, all in their 30s and 40s, and they all had weapons. So we've gone down in 25 handed, and one of my mates, he had a crash, and we didn't have any tools with us. So we've gone straight into them, and this guy went to put an axe in my head, and one of my friends is from Islington, Tally and Tony, he brought the guy's arm. So what happened? We was all rolling about on the floor and fighting, and what happened? This sergeant, he arrested me. He was the big tall guy, and he took me behind the sand and gave me a beat, and in him days, the way we used to talk, I said, leave it out, Governor. Then he got killed, and he got my head chopped off. They were all talled up. He said, you're just trying to get out of a nick. So he said, but if you're telling the truth, I'll let you go. So we went round at Millwall. You had a hooli van where they used to take the people, and then they used to take them. If they were nicked, they'd take them to the nick. There was all these weapons on the table. Oh, you were telling the truth, he said. So he kicked me out of the arse, and he said, oh, don't come back in, but I still went back in. But that was when I was 15. How did Millwall get the fearsome reputation that it's got? When did that start? It started from the early days, because we always, at the top table, we had more heavy guys than the other firms. And we used to be at number most of the time. Because we were so strict, if anybody run, they would be completely ostracised from the firm. And the firm just didn't. So even if you're going to get killed, you have to stand your ground and fight. There's it then, nobody runs. Nobody runs. What happens if somebody runs, Bob? Well, if you run, you're not just told, you'll get physically dealt with. And you're told from a young age, this is something you don't... It's like being in a mafia, and being in a grass or informer, or taking money off of... taking money off of people high up the food chain. You have to work to parameters. When did you start moving through the ranks? I started moving through the ranks, 15, 16. And I got to the top at the 1975 Testimonial between Mill and West Ham. When one of your friends, who you've interviewed many times, I put it... What happened? We let West Ham come in the ground. We was on the halfway line. Because it was all fences, I was the first one around there. 17. I'd meet ginger hair. My dad's Army Second World War, because he was American... Well, he was in the American Army. Granddad was American. I did some American jacket on, and yellow roll neck pullover. And I went there, and one of your friends... I won't name his name, because it's not the way we do things. You know what I'm talking about. And he went, Mill was shit spot on the floor, so I hit him. He went down, out the ground. I thought he was going to get nicked. I wasn't so... Then I came back in, just after half time. And what had happened, there was West Ham in the cold blow. Maybe a thousand, and a thousand Mill War all around them, and two lines of police. So I've come in from behind. They recognized I was there earlier, so two guys were trying to plunge me. I'm on my hands and knees. I was crawling through policemen's legs, and I turned around, and I'm 17. And all the tough boys at Mill War then, in their 20s, 30s and 40s, I said, we're going to let them do this. What were we going to do? I said, nah. And what happened? We attacked. The police went down like chocolate soldiers, and then it was toe-to-toe fighting. And then as people were getting done, all the bodies were piling up, and we pushed them down the stairs. But it was very, very, very violent. I whacked a few people who you know. I won't know their names. Who won? We won. All the teams are in London. Why is it Mill War and West Ham? The hatred is so powerful. It started from the Dockers. There was a strike in 1900. One, because Mill War is 1885 from the Isle of Dogs. West Ham is from Stratford Marshes, 1895, with the older team by 10 years. That's why the Crays supported Mill War, because of their granddad, Cannonball Lee, and that's why the Richesons, because you've still got the older generation, you've got a lot of Mill War that come from East London, like Stepney and Isle of Dogs. But one side bloke the strike. I think we did. I think Mill War was wrong. I think Mill War went back to work, and West Ham stayed on strike. But hatred, it used to go off before the war and after the war. But it's just a terrible... When you've got a football match, you now have to put two helicopters out. What was the toughest one you've came up against? You might... You've interviewed one of their top guys, and I know a lot of their top guys, because I've done a chapter in their book for them, and I've got to give it to Cardiff. Yeah? Yeah. Because 1999, 300 Mill War to 400 Mill War got on the pitch at the end of the game, went down underneath. I'd left the ground because the police were going to arrest me. I left the ground with my brother and a guy called Big Frank, who's just passed away, Big Frank Duffy, one of her boys. He's sweet. We left, and people can't understand. I got back to the station unscathed, but we did. But I picked them up at... on the way back at Swindon. You know the Paddington to Bristol Cardiff, right? And all the Mill was sitting on the train, trying carts and bruises and bandages. But what happened? 300 or 400. That was Cardiff's biggest turn now. They had 3,000 or 4,000 firm. But Mill War Fault, they had nowhere to run. They got the worst of it. Some of my mates thought they were going to die. Very, very bad. But before that, we had a massive... There's a guy called Dyer. I won't say... They called him Dyer the Taxi. I won't say what his second name is, but... He's Cardiff. He's a year younger than me. And he said the best row he's ever seen at football was the 28th of March, 1976, when we played. And we had 300 firm. They had 2,000. And they had all these black girls and mixed race girls with pop socks on. You used to have in the 70s. And they had all the steel combs and the knives. And some of our people were getting stabbed. And I said to the old bill, look, what are you going to do? And then they picked him up, tipped him up. And all the steel combs and the knives fell down. But what happened? One of my friends, he got captured by Cardiff and they was beating him to death. And I had hash puppies on, which is silly to wear hash puppies. I've gone back in the crowd into Cardiff's firm because we were 300 in the block and they was surrounding either side. And they had like 2,000 firm. So I've gone back and pulled him along the floor. People have attacked me. But because of the adrenaline, I managed to block him. And about 10 guys come back to help me, pulled him back, saved his life in the firm. Now, when we got back to the station, Cardiff's firm and the police were all laughing. They went to walk back to the town centre. And what happened? A train came in. And we were told to get on this empty train straight back to London. Only 50 got on the train. It was still 200. I'll give a council a war. I spoke to them, I'll give a council a war. I said, we're going to kick them gates out and come back. We kicked the gates in, 250, come out and we run right out, smashed all the pubs up. And the police had to come back and forth. Anyone we see hanging about, this guy died who was on there. So he said it's the best he's ever seen and he's been up and down the country for years. That was the 28th of March, 76. I was a day before me 18th birthday. But it was just like the Wild West. How was it planning then in the 70s and 80s with no phones? Was it just a case of walking around to find...? My mate, who started the firm in 64, 65, the guy with the beard, we called the captain after Blackbeard the pirate, we told him, stick tight because we're going to be outnumbered. There was a bit of trouble in the park on the right and I said, don't break ranks, he didn't listen. He went into the Bluebird Club Cardiff where there were 400 of their boys. And my mate Dave is so stubborn, he would never run or back down. He's a cross between Dick Emory and Harry Enfield, Mr. Angry. But he had to further cut the beard, earring Silverson Christopher, still combed in his Ben Sherman, sharpened up. He had the dungarees, the black steel toe cap boots, and he used to give it, we called it the Burmese Bowl, you know, roll the shoulders. But he went in the club and he got a chair over his head, cut the chairs, and he was still standing, wouldn't run. So they got backed off him and this guy, John, they called him Winkle because he was a small guy, but the three-legged man, if you understand what I mean. But what happened, when they came in the ground, we was in like the paddock, there was a stand behind us, 300 of us, and he had these bandages around his head and they was all taking a piss at him, calling Geronimo. But that was in the ground and then what I spoke about earlier was what happened with the fight afterwards and the knives in the popsock and then we kicked the gate stand and come back out. But that day was full on, it was full on from, when we got there, in the ground, their leader at the time, who's still alive, I won't say surname, but he's Big Frank with the handle. It looked like, you know the film The Longer Friday, you know Razors, cutting Razors, it looked like him. And he was behind us and I was going crazy in the ground, get down there, have a fight, because the adrenaline and the passion. But that day was an absolute, what I call blockbuster that day, non-stop. Who's the toughest man you've come up against? Normally I've been fighting more than one person but when we played West Ham in 89 over there, we had 700 firm, we met at Sully Docks, we got off at Plasto because we were told to by West Ham and the police tried to hold us, but we had 700 firm, we pushed the police, West Ham come out of Side Street, a pub at Side Street and they was about 300 handed and they saw how many numbers were there. So what they had done, they went round the back street to negate the numbers so it's, they sort of, their front people could get to the front and maybe push us back. But what happened, the police are there, so loads of police and this guy, I'm going to talk about this guy because he's passed away, I'm talking about people. One of their top fighters or their best fighters was a guy called Demolition Chris, 6'6, still boots, he had a like, you know, you know, like a garage, what do they call it? What's that thing they wear? What were the... The full course. No, no, no, you know, like a car repairman, you know, with the boys. Oh, car mechanic, boys, that's it. So the police said to me and him, give you five minutes. So this man, he's 6'6, some of that 6'1, so I thought it's a bit like the OK Corral, who gets him first or gunfight. I've always had to speed the hands because boxers I work with doing door work and security. They said, for a big man, your hands speed is unbelievable. But what happened, I got my punch in first, a big one on his chin, put him down, knocked him out, one punch, and that was in front of all them people. And you can imagine how you feel after that. Well, he could have done me, I could have done him, but the fact is, I just got in first and done him. So, and that particular game, because I was embarrassed, West Ham, we came back to South London, to a place called Surrey Docks, and we were in pub, we were waiting for them to come back, that we're coming back. And they did come back, but what happened, they came back late, about 9 o'clock, they came back 400 handed. We had 350, but what happened, people who don't live in South London anymore, because I was up in Edmonton. So, I've left, there was only 100 Millwall left. They were talled up, but it was all the Bermond's illiterate. West Ham came out, but Millwall attacked them straight away and run them everywhere. They run them back in the station, they run them back over, there's a place called Southern Park, and they run them down the road. They broke ranks West Ham, and a lot of them got hurt. But for 100 guys to do 400, but the problem we have with West Ham is that they don't admit, when we get done, we admit, they never admitted it. And there's people, stuff I'm saying now, they think I'm talking fairy tales. But what happened, I'll tell you this incident, which is very important, West Ham are playing Crystal Palace at Sellhurst Park. Now, we're only playing whole city at home in the third division. We was in a pub called The Rose Inn, so I've gone in the pub, the 60 Millwall win now, and there's all these cases on the floor with baseball bats, and they said, Bob, they said, it's all going to go off in a minute. He said, West Ham's coming out of New Cross Station. They're going to come up to us, and we've got a big row. We were 60 handed. We stood in the line. They come up the road. It was like Zulu, 350. We all pulled out baseball bat, and as they got close, they were just smashing them with baseball bats. They run them down the road. And what happened, just before New Cross Gate Station, you got to the left is a pub called The New Cross Inn. Just next to there, you've got a Jamaican barber shop. So I said, what's all the commotion? What's going on? I said, oh, it's people from East London, West Ham, come over to South London to take liberties. So they all come out, pulled knives, and they was all getting involved, as well, the Jamaican guys. We pushed them back to New Cross Station, and they was all... And then what happened, the police turned up, and Millwall run down the side streets. But I stayed and was still punching people. I got arrested. One of West Ham's black guys got done with a milk crate, and he was like, severely headed, spearhead injuries. I got arrested, put in what they call a cue car, which is like playing close to police, nicked. I put on an axe and said to the police, my brother's been stabbed. He's on the operating table at Greenwich Hospital. And I was convincing. They said, right, we're going to let you go. But if we see you, because there's going to be loads of more trouble, then you are nicked. So I had to come off the scene. But what happened, BG, you know what I'm talking about, don't you? He brought 100 of West Ham's, because he's been embarrassing, and he's come back, and he's gone to a pub called The Crown and Anchor, and it's like 50 mills of stock boys, the older ones now, so he's all gone off again. And then West Ham's got done for a second time. Close to the embarrassment, what happened, another guy, C.P., you know that, doesn't it? He had to go, he was going to Corks, he's going to get a put away for football activities, and then he had a decommissioned post office van with all weapons in him. So Millwall, this is the week after. This is like March 84. Now, because I missed the train with my brother to go from Queens Road, Peckham, to London Bridge, I missed all the action, all the start of the action. Now, what happened? There's 50 Millwall. It was like the younger ones, 40 younger ones and 10 older ones. And what happened? West Ham was under 20-handed. It was all their firm, the Under Fives, and the Birdman. You know the Birdman has done it. So what happened? They've all got told up. Millwall see West Ham at the bottom of the hill at London Bridge straight and run down at them. And as West Ham's come on a call, they went after him and pulled all the tools up and run Millwall back to the station. Now, what happened? 40 of the youngsters just run away, left 10 guys, older ones, with two young kids. So they stood behind this barrier where the swing doors were and they were giving them crates of pills bottles. They were trying to get through the doors. They were all getting hit on the head. The reason there was no police there, there was a political demonstration going on at Waterloo Station. All the police were down there. So when I turned up, it's been going off for 10 or 15 minutes, it's standoff. When I got up, there was all, I thought it was an IRA attack. You're talking about 84. Now, there was women and children and ordinary people powered against the wall, all like, and I looked and it was all like smoke and all shower glass flitting through the air. So I see a fight at the door, outside the rail bar, the main door where the black taxes are and I thought, which who's Millwall and who's Westam? So I've looked and I see 10 Millwalls. So I've turned around, I said to my brother, stand behind me. So I said to the older guys, I said, I'm going to have some of this, but I took my coat off and I give them, I give Westam a speech. I give them, I said, do you know me, Ginger Bob? You know, I wasn't here really. I'm here now. And I said, if you want it, I wouldn't even told up. They were told up. I said to the guys, over your cum lads. So there was 12 of us. We run 120. We run and they dropped their weapons and the bird man through, he threw a petrol bomb that went 64 up in the air. And as they was all trying to get away, they dropped their weapons James. And there was a big pile of them all falling out and we just give them a terrible beating. But they, they think that never happened. But I was there at the front of it. They say it's a figment of imagination, but it's not. When was the first time you got the Jill Bob? Went to jail. Never been to jail, James. Never? What happened, I was at Crown Court four or five times and brown bread, you know brown bread is, isn't it? And tiny, who's dead, tiny substance. And Charlie R. I'd got nicked, not for football, for villainy. And I was at Crown Court and they told me to go to a place called Warfrode, Jewish firm, Gold corns. And they stopped me going away. I won, in the 70s and 80s, I won four Crown Court cases. Now what happened? They tore the police, the police were there with their notebooks, the police were there with their notebooks and they destroyed them. And the police was going like that and not guilty, not guilty, not, but for the barristers from this firm I would have been inside, as you say, Dan of Steers. The other time I got away with one was Boxing Day, 1980, we played Portsmouth. There are 2,000 Portsmouth in the corner in the way, in the old ground. And me and six guys went in, a few went in early like my brother, they got run on the pit. And I'm whacking a load of people, but the police had me banged to rights, got nicked, so I'm at court, Campbell magistrates. I'm just about to get six months and I changed my plea. I changed my plea and you never believe this because that was in January, I went back to court the first of May. Well, in the middle of April there was a Brixton riots. I had six policemen who had me banged to rights every single of them coppers got done in the Brixton riots and they was in a hospital, King's College Hospital, Campbell well. So I had my little barrister with me and the police said, oh, we want to put this, all the witnesses are in hospital. They said, oh, Mr. Paine, oh, he's been all this inconvenience and you know what blah, blah, blah. So they said, let's do it now. So from six months I got 50 pound fine and bound over. That was lucky. What was it like? What was tiny like? Did you ever see the conversation between Ball Gardner and Tiny when Ball says they gave Tiny a call? But when we played him in 78, when we played him in 78, I'll tell you what happened with Tiny and Bill after the match, but what happened, my late, we was going over there, it was 18th of November 1970, 20. So a couple of our boys got nicked at New Cross Gate Station getting on the tube without fighting with the police. But we had 50 of our top people and West Stam's firm at the time, that Mylin's firm, they had 50 and they was in the back carriage. We was in the second back carriage. So that's the trains going along towards Upton Park. So what happened? We went into their carriage and they was at the far end, 50, we was 50, even numbers. So their top man of Mylin, who substance-quintly, I had a fight with that day, but what happened? He said, I can smell my wool in here. So one of my mates and Peck, an older guy, he said, what are we standing here for? Let's get on with it. And everyone, I have some of these pool tools out, they pool tools out, it went mental as someone wasn't killed. Now we're all fighting at the back carriage Now what happened? We got the better of them and they all got off at Bromley Barbow because it's like an open station. You can go up the bank. So what happened? They went, but their top guy, Mylin, he, me and him shaped up and he's a pro boxer. Used to be, he was like, in between light heavyweight and crew, bit lighter than me. He was British champion and also Commonwealth. Now I just went into him. He didn't get a punch in. I smashed him to pieces, ripped his, ripped his t-shirt off, his chain, his Arrington jacket and his face was all like that. And I was about to hit him on the head with a breezebot. That was a seriously, one of the Millwall guys pulled me off him, pulled me off him and then he ran away and he was at the ground with all these marks on him. But he's a guy that's gone on social media and said he's never been done a football, but he's, it's just nonsense, James. Do you see that? I thought people might have met and they've been run some teams. Look, I'm standing here from 11-year-old boy sitting here rather. I'm nearly 65. I've been done many times at football. There's no shame in that because the amount of rounds you're going to be in, you're going to get done. You're going to get done. It's just what they call the law of averages. That's what we don't like. They won't admit to us doing them. But I've never been, I've never been, I've never, I've been done by Chelsea, I've been done by Palace. I've never been done by West Ham because I met them all for size when I played West Ham. I fought about 10 times better because that is the shame of all shame to be done by them. What about seeing your, what did you do for Bob when you were doing the football scene? You were a boomster there. Did you lock the doors? I was a bouncer. I started off working for printing works. Then I was apprentice electrician. Then I was in the post office for 20 years as a union official. Upset all them at the post office. They didn't know what you were doing? Yeah. Yeah, but it was, yeah, I kept it pretty. But what happened, when I let, I was doing it part-time, bodyguarding, minding, door work. But when I left in 91, I got the sack, but I went to tribunal and won the case. So I got all my pension and all my money back. Then I went more into, I went more into the bouncing scene, minding and all things like that. Who was that? Well, in 2000, I went to a club and, you know the A-team, don't you? Yeah, yeah. The Raleigh's used to work for, and eight guys come in with a black guy and a telling guy. And in the club, and two plain clothes coppers in there, they got done in the club. So I broke it out, got hit. And this guy hit me. It's one of the nephews that hit me on the shoulder. I went, you little muggy cunt, I said to him. Black guy run away, and the other people over there used to work for someone. They said, Bob, Bob, that's the A-team, I did. But what happened? They went outside. The coppers, plain-coast coppers, one of the plain-coast coppers got chipped outside. So there's all blood on the floor. The club got closed down. Giza come up, who's serving for him, you know, serving for him. Who's, what's his name, son. You know, McFitty, checking the hat. The two guys, one of them's passed away. TL. It was his younger brother, we know the ones with the goatee beard hat. I said, sorry mate, and he tried to push me away like a mug. And put him down on the floor and throttled him. He went back and said, blah blah blah, so a contract was put out on me. But the next morning, people in the underworld, from South London, they phoned him up and said, that bloke's like my son, what are you doing there? Oh mistake, mistake. So they wanted me to meet, what's his name, of the, and, work for him. But it's like, I'm an arsenal. If you've worked for the other lot, you're not going to work for the, you understand what I'm saying. But that, that forced me to come off the door. Yeah. And then I was cabbing. I was cabbing for lap dancers, pop promoters, DJs. You know, you take me from one club and you pick the, I was doing that for a while. But then in 2015, I got undercut by Uber. So I wasn't making enough money. So then I came back to security. I came back eight years ago. What about, so see when you're doing the football, what's interesting is that, when was mobile at its peak when it had two, three thousand, five thousand bodies behind it? Well, when was it at the peak, the nineties, eighties? No, all through the seventies. All through the eighties. And then, like the early nineties. But even, even into modern times, obviously if we played West Ham, or Tottenham or, or Liverpool or Man United, especially Newcastle, we got a big thing with Newcastle. People come out of the woodwork, thousands. Why Newcastle? Newcastle. I used to work up there from 1980 to back end of 85. And they've come down and we've gone there. But it's just a bit of history. And a few people have got hurt on either side. We was up, I was up there in 91 with a friend of mine called, we called him Bald Eagle because he had a hair transplant. He's a Newcastle guy, but he, was his other team, but he's got, he got more and more. And he made his name when he was like 18 and he chased a load of Chelsea down Northumberland Street with a big axe. We was up there when we was at the ground. It was in St. James's Park and police radios are cracking. He said, Mill was on the rampage. And I could hear, or Mill's come out the station, 28 guys. But what happened? Whether they were drinking beer, someone's put all drugs and peel in their drinks. So they've all gone, they've come out, 250 Newcastle outside by what they call the, you know, there's outside there's a wine lodge. They called wine lodge, you know the sawdust on the floor. So they, they've come down Pink Lane, 250 Andy and Mill was just attacked and run them everywhere. And what happened? They went in a couple of pubs and you had Plants of Newcastle Brown exhibition, cigarettes in the Astrays and that were they, Newcastle's just, well Mill was on, it's only 28 Mill. They're all off their rocker. So couple of Mill wall, that's my mate who's passed away, big Frank. They got a piano and push it down the hill out of one of the pubs. And the police, police, we never seen anything like it. But when I went back to the station, we was about, there was that 28 plus, plus my mate, Johnny, Johnny Cheaton, Bald Eagle and me and all their top boys were there and they, and we was all shaping up to have a fight and the police were there and they said, come to Whitley Bay, come to Whitley Bay. They wanted both of us to get on the train and have Whitley Bay and have a round, but obviously the police wouldn't allow it so they pushed us on the train but we was all shaping up. That was back in 91. It's been back a long time as well, isn't it? Talking about all the memories. See, I had a guy on the undercover copper, they tried to do a trail, say Millwall, Crystal Palace, but everything got threw out. Did you ever come across him? What happened? I was, you know, earlier I said, like the five families. Yeah. Well, at Millwall, we got, as he's alluded to, there's been many top boys. But you got different firms. Now, what happened? I was with the F-troupe. I'm not F-troupe, but I've guested for them. I'm Millwall, half way line, who took over from the captain, the guy with a beard. And the other guy was going to come to those. He's from that and Danny as well and his father and his grandfather. His grandfather even knew me. Now, what happened? We was drinking in a place called Fat Larris by the Michael Sobill Sports Centre up at Finsbury Park. Early in the morning, we all got 120 of us. We come down Blackstock Road and what happened, Arsenal appeared by the Arsenal Tavern run them everywhere. A couple of me all got nicked. And from the left, another firm, which is a Bermondsy-Depford firm, probably about 150 of them because we had all different firms there. They had smashed a pub up further up the road and they'd also salvage a load of Arsenal. But they were five minutes behind us. So as we got to the ground, most of them all got picked up by the police, put in the, what are they called, the clock-ends. There was, the gate that day was about 58, 59,000, but we had 14,000 there. We had the West Lower, the Highbury and the clock-end. I was drunk. I had a big ginger beard and curly-permed hair and I had a leather jacket on. I was drunk and was drinking barley wine, which is like a West Indian drink. So me and this other guy from Peckham, well-known face, I won't name his names, we come in the turnstiles but he got held up at the turnstiles saying about a ticket. I've gone in the ground, gone into the North Bank and to my right is 300 Arsenal, all their top boys. I look down on the pitch and I see my brother, my friend with the beard, all my halfway line crew and Mr Bannon was with them and all Arsenal was laughing at them because they got just by numbers, got round on the pitch. So I've gone crazy. I've gone to my right, I've gone into the middle of the Arsenal, put my hand in my coat, now I've got nothing. I said, oh, Mil, who wants it? I said to him, all spitting at me, big, big bundle and it was a matchup for five or 10 minutes, crowd pushed down. Police got me on next. So what they've done, they took me round where the West Slower is, but what happened, when I got to the, where the floodlight was, the corner of the clock end, people just got over the wall, punched the two coppers, got me and pulled me into the crowd, got away. But that, what James Bannon said, he said I was in the seats, fine. I wasn't in the seats, I was in the North Bank, fine. I was, but I went to two of his things in the West End, you know when he was giving, and I took a picture of me when I was 19 in Spain on holiday with the main man and two of the four guys are dead now. And I showed it to him, oh, he said, oh, that's the bloke who pulled an eye fat and said, oh, don't worry, son. That was the captain. Who's, who's, who's it? Who's been the toughest then? The captain. He's not the toughest of spitting. The guy, there's a guy who runs Milton Keynes. I won't say his name, runs Milton Keynes from 86. He's an absolute maniac. They call him angel eyes because he's paranoid. The guy who had trouble with his range over this morning, the guy that was going to come with me and Danny, I'll put him number one, a man who's been fighting from a young age, me, one of the half, but he's, he's a top man. Top martial artists have been all around the world and, and, and, a heavy man. But he's, I show respect to my older ones. I'll put him, I'll put him on the top of the tree, the top man. Did you ever come across big bars? Azulu? God rest his soul, man. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Like, what old champion kickboxing? What do you think, Bob? When you, if you're turning a corner and you see someone. James, but it's fighting and fighting. Yeah. You can fight, as you know, you look, if you're in, if you're in guard, you fight to win. Yeah, of course. If you have a shooter, a knife, I'm not putting base down, do you respect, but we had a big row with Birmingham in 93. We was a hundred handed, they was about three, four hundred and they had petrol bombs there. This was at London Bridge and we chased them down the tracks, lots of fighting, lots, lots of, lots of ag. And that was all their firm, the Zoolos. And we can have a meeting with them in two months time. They're coming down, well, they're saying they're coming down big, but there we go. But they got the worst of it, they got the worst of it then, but bringing me on, because I've got so many stories, you can, I go back to Birmingham. The 30th of December, 1986, we're in Birmingham Night Game, 400 firm on the train, the police tacked them all up, 22 of us slipped the police. So we run down the bank, Birmingham had been waiting in the pub for us for, since 12 o'clock, 350 and did come out. They see how many were sourced. They run initially, they come back, there's only 22 of us, they come out, some of my blades, four meal guys got cut and they stole their leather jackets. We got pushed, run back to the station 18 of us. I went over to two of their top boys, two black guys, it weren't bad, it was two of them. And I went up and had a bit of a ruck with them, fight with them and I had to keep my eyes because of the police, bang bang bang, put them down on the floor, bang their heads on the floor, you know the brummy act or your big cunt, come round the corner, I said, listen mate, you can't do, one man, two of you can't do me. I went back to the rest of the mill wall and I said, right, we're going to get black cabs, they're going to take us to the away end. The taxi driver's thought it's humorous they took us to the home end and set us up. We got there, 18 handed and there weren't 350, but there were 60 of their firm there outside the bingo hold. The police run away for reinforcements to get the horses in there. So I said, nobody run. One guy went to run older guy, I won't say his name, and I'll give him a smack in the mouth and rip his shirt. So I had two young, we had a formation of three, six, like a Roman format, they come to me and we just stood and we done them. And then the police put us into the ground. That was that night game. Did you ever go away with England? Once or twice. I went to an England, Scotland match friendly when I had to leave the ground at half time. Why? Because three big Scots guys, a lot bigger, two brothers and a son sitting next to me and they put it on me and the police were looking, I thought I'm going to get nicked here and that was when Rooney was playing and I said, right, come down to the toilet and I'll fight three of you. But I had second thoughts about it and I thought, I'm going to get nicked here. It's too many. So I just left, I just left the stadium. I'm not going to. But in 19, where would it be? 1981 because from January 18 to the end of October 85 I was on a mail train post office, Newcastle and back, Edinburgh and back. So there were 25 Millwall Houston on the train and someone had me some money. I've got on in my post office uniform. Get the money. What do you think they've done? They held me on the train. The train went. I've got no ticket for the match. You're playing at playing in Wales at Wrexham. So we got off at Wolverhampton to have a drink and it was like Tottenham with us, Wolves, Villa, Manchester City, Everton. But our 25 was at the front, the focal point. Gone in the ground. We got in Wales end. Now you had 2000 Cardiff one side and 2000 Swansea the other side and we was in the middle and as we were running them back, then we turned around. The others were coming forward. He's back and forth, back and forth. But initially, when I came in, what had happened, I got caught. There's a crash barrier and someone kicked me in the testicles and I said to someone, hold me up, hold me up for a couple of minutes. I said, because I'm vulnerable now, just let me get myself some breath. We lost four of them, but I didn't see none of them. It was full on the whole time and I'm standing in postman's uniform. Do you think we'll ever go to Premiership? There's a chance of this season or next season. But what I'm hoping in personally is the way things are going in the Premier. You've got Everton and West Ham, two of our friends, both in the bottom three. I'd like them to come down next season and then go up, we go up the next season. Of course, we've got an ever improving squad. We've got a lot of foreign players now and we're six at the moment with the game in hand. So you would rather... But my luck would be West Ham and Everton go down and we go up. Do you think if we'll go to the Premier that it brings it starts Everton up again because the football violence isn't what it was in the 70s, 80s, 90s. It's kind of it's most families at the grounds now. It's all CT. It's all them. Yeah. Do you think it could maybe bring Everton back again the way it used to be? Well, if West Ham play Mill over Stratford, you can imagine what's going to happen. There's only four stops on the tube. But as you know, James, have you studied the history of Mill with Football Club? Yeah, about some bobs, yeah. They're Scottish. They're Anglo-Scotish club. Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah. Morton's Jam Factory in Dundee and Scottish dockers in Glasgow came down to the Isle of Dogs and then wanted to form a football team. And that's why Millwall the Lions, it's a lion rampant and Millwall's original colours is dark blue, white, it's the Scottish colours. Yeah. We've had a lot of Scottish managers as well. Yeah, well, that's why he's a mad bastard. Of course you've got a lot of Scottish, hadn't you? Well, we are different from Chelsea. We're closer ranges, but anyone who comes into the Indian Circle, we've got Celtic guys born up now and we've got Celtic guys from Colby and from East End of Glasgow and we've got Rangers, Aberdeen Hearts. We've got a mixture. Mm-hmm. We've got a mixture of them. Did you ever go and have a tear-off for any other films? I've been over to Chelsea, guesting for them a few times. I was over there in 2014 and they were playing Galatasaray and my mate's passed away now, one of their main guys. He passed away in 15. We come out of his house in Shepherd's Bush. He's walking down the Fulham Road and all the Turkish guys, we were going bang, bang, bang, like that. We got to the ground. He said, Bob, I feel ill. I've got to go home. So, I'm still there. So, next thing, you've got 50 of their main boys outside the way, turns out, Galatasaray. Now, I'm not even the Chelsea sport. So, I'm with this guy, a stocky guy and we've gone forward and we've got to cut a couple of them, two of us and we pushed them back, run them. The other Chelsea was like, was behind us and what happened, there's a police officer. He's one of these long-term guys, six foot six sergeant and the police ask these silly questions. You think they've got half a brain. Now, he come up to me because he does Brentford Fulham, Chelsea, QPR West Sergeant. He said to me, what are you doing over here? Because he knows I'm Millwall. I said, do you know the way it is, Governor, my wife is a Chelsea support. I've just come over to get a couple of programs. So, he said, go and fuck off, like, so he knows what was going, got to go to Flunberg because I'm going to get me colour-filled. But silly question, what are you doing over here? He knows what I'm doing over here. What do you think, like the Turkish mob, the Polish, kind of Italian, kind of old cycles as well. Yeah, we get a lot of people over Millwall. We get a lot of Dutch Germans because we've got Dutch and Germans playing, a lot of Italians. If we have a massive game and it's like, Everton, West Ham. Why Everton? Well, Everton, we played them in 73. And a load of youngsters went in, police put them in the Everton end. We knocked them out of Cup 2 now. And they stabbed a load of 15 and 16-year-olds. They got nice from cutlery from the girls in the hot dogs and selling teas and they just boom, boom. And what happened, Millwall had a good firm, at least 2000. Manchester City was playing in Liverpool, at Anfield. And we were so angry, we ran right and we chased all three of them. I was only young then, I would have been, I was 14, just before my 15th birthday. Does something do not pull a gun out as well? Why not scrap? Those are just old knives. Starring pistols. Why? What's the point in that then? Millwall's thrown a hand grenade on a pitch, at Brentford. How do you do on that? Well, in the major rounds, you're going to get, as I said, at London Bridge in March 1984, they were tooled up to the gunnels. Anybody have a day, Bob? Yeah, well, we killed a guy at embankment. You know, the foot soldier film. Yeah. You know, when he turned around and said, it was just as straggler as it weren't, it was their main firm coming back from Chelsea. And it was like 300 millwall, but they had about, they had about 800 or 1,000 on the train. Our people was all masked up and tooled up. One of their guys got stabbed in the chest and killed, but they killed, they killed one of ours in 75 when he, when he got hit by a train. He was attacking West End Fire, and he got off the train on the wrong side, strain come around and killed him. So it's one, one at the moment. That's when it goes up at the next three minutes, especially if people just want to tear it up. Some of these guys in these firms are lawyers. What happened, James? They used to be after me and Tiny and another guy, elder guy who, I wouldn't say his name, because he's more out the frame now because of his health issues. Tiny's passed away, cancer the throat and it's like me. I've put the word there, not that I'm fresh or anything. Look at me now, I was nearly dead but I'm back here for a reason. All the guys that said they're going to deal with me over West End, I've told them I'll meet you somewhere in East End. I'll take two or three of you on at a time. They never took me up on the offer, but it's not personal, James, it's tribal, you know this. Yeah, of course, man, it's tribal, as a man, people try to protect our own, but would you ever get out or even know you're in your 60s? Would you ever stop? You would stop because the police have got the eyes on me all the time and a couple of our older boys when we go to matches they're looking at us, so any mistake we make, they're going to have us because they know all the stuff we got away with over the years. Do you think they would ever plant anything on you? Is that always been a concern? Or is that just a bit far-fetched? Not me and some of my close friends because we're not drug people. But there's other people at Millwall who's been nick recently. They haven't got them for the football, but they've raided their house for drug dealing. So if they can't get them one way to get them, but I've never been a drug man. What about Sunderland? Because I've heard a few boys saying that they were right up for that back near there. Well, we got them in on the 4th of February they're bringing a massive firm down so that'd be very interesting. They're bringing two or three thousand so that's going to be quite interesting. Are you still going to the older games, Bob? Not all of them. I'll be at the Sunderland game. What was your favourite ground to go to? Favourite ground to go to? Well, obviously West Ham, I think. Someone sent me something on social media, all West Ham was singing because you know they're lost at walls. They're all singing like, like the support's singing they're going to go down and those all singing we're going to Millwall and that singing about Millwall but they go down because even though we're in the playoffs now I don't think we go up this year I might be wrong but they're all getting excited because there's a chance of playing us again. We haven't played them for like 2012. Wish I could hit his memory but you're not at Millwall, watch. The greatest memory is the rather obscure one. You're going back to the 80s it would be 1983 we was in the second division and we were on the field grammars manager and we was going down to the bottom and we needed to win the last game. Now we played at Chesterfield and the gate was like four and a half thousand but three and a half thousand were Millwall and we won the game 1-0 and stayed up by the skin of our teeth a penalty and the atmosphere and as the trains come in 500 on each train it was three and a half thousand at Chesterfield station and when they all started singing in there it was like tears would come out of your eyes, very emotional but that was a long, long time ago but it's just a passion, the passion of Millwall. What about now? Obviously if you're getting that back older and it's not even a football match on and you've seen old enemies what happens? Nothing. Everyone reacts differently but personally a lot of my friends are different obviously I would leave it but as we say, if they put it on me and they wanted it you'd have to go for it. Have you got any regrets Bob? I've got regrets though I'm not sitting here as a multi-millionaire because I've had millions go through my hands but I've I've given a lot away and I've lent money and when I lost my dad at 21 and he was only 56 at cancer he said, you're your own worst enemy son you shoot yourself in the foot so I'm very honest and when times in my life when I've had money I've had a big entourage following me and the fall of his money has soon parted and I've never kept anything I'm a person of question and I'll tell you I'm not sneaky I don't hold anything back You just came to love him for the moment? Yeah I'm just I've got a second chance at life when a doctor tells you I've only seen one person worse than you What happened with your health there just recently? On the 10th of November I've got seven grandchildren four girls and three boys I was picking up from school my 10 year old and I felt sort of queasy and I collapsed in the school playground and it was like diabetes plus like a mild stroke but I also picked up sciatica in the right leg and back and what happened the caretaker who's a West Ham supporter from Barking even all the teachers picked me up put me inside the reception on the chair and started giving me sweet stuff my son-in-law come picked me up to the hospital and then they've done testing when they see that not my sugar leg but my ketones it should be low or 01 it was 5.4 straight away all drips on me for three days I was in the hospital for eight days but when the doctor comes around he says I've only seen one person worse than you I think myself well perhaps it's not my time to go James No that's clear then I'm getting in with my ugly face How has that brought when you're king that fucking having a door man it makes you reevaluate your life you're just going to keep doing what you're doing or does it make you question everything especially with grandkids I'll do a little bit of door work but in the future but I'm only going to do selective places because it's a very dangerous game very dangerous game James so in 99 you're going to like this in 99 there's a rave in Lewisham three different security teams there's one of my West Indian friends security teams and one of your very good friends Mr DC I'm talking about so I'm there good money, £350 now this is a rave I don't like people coming to that now I'm standing there and DC coming with his crew with a bobbin box now he's a year younger than me he knocked me on the shoulder all up big fella, you know the way he gave me a knuckle duster and a cosh I thought he doesn't know it's a funny way to and I said to my mate I said I'm not working I'm not working with that fucking idiot he's bringing on too much hate when we start bashing people it's a strong light they're going to come back and shoot us and some of us are going to get clipped I went on didn't I I'll give away £350 because of the way DC approached me but there you go let's not change their spots today what do you think looking back in your life it's been an interesting life this is what I've told you is just a minute a minute part of it just a minute part of it I'll give you a lot of the early stuff not so much of the late stuff what was Dan a day like when you've done the documentary say the things I liked him he wouldn't come in the pub he thought he was going to kidnap him in the golden lion pub I had one of my XSAS soldier mates sitting in there and the interview of me and then then one of the producers he I went back a second week and they've done more interviews you haven't seen the cut off bit you've only seen the bit you've seen the bit which we've only done but there's another bit that I've done where I'm standing outside New Cross Station talking about that business when I got arrested and de-arrested but yes a lot of my life I've changed I made a lot of mistakes does that fill on the football factory and the Danny Dyer the football casual scene did you think that enhanced the violence even more because it became cool for a while yeah Danny Dyer was playing Chelsea but he's West Ham, the other guy the Stuckey guy and Tamo Sainsmill Big Tamo used to be involved in the scenes back in the day he's from New Cross got so much time for Big Tamo he's a big fucking unit in himself as well but do you think it will ever be as ruthless as it was back in the 70s and 80s because there's too much cameras in that nowhere I think it's failed out with its ass see what happens when you put information out on social media and the firms we're playing Birmingham in a couple of months they've already called it on which means they've put the initial information out but when you put information out on social media the police within Scotland Yard they've got a big department that deals with football they know all the top boys where they drink who they are they've got photographs up on the water with the sound blah blah blah I've been to games when the young coppers come up to you hello, Bob, how are you? how do they know me? it's part of the induction now what Birmingham have done they told Millwall now some people are up for it some are not the problem we've got they want us to come to Covent Garden meet them in Covent Garden in the afternoon you're asking for trouble because everybody even in my physical condition we all like a rass to go to Covent Garden you're just asking for trouble what about the people who watch and say you shouldn't be feeding at football in the morning what do you say to them? I can understand but we're like heroin addicts and these guys in their 70s still fight Millwall now who are half dead blokes in their 70s and make me look young at nearly 65 now you can't control yourself you can't control yourself I could be standing outside the Millwall and someone comes up to me Sondland's top boy and as we say offer you out even though I might get a battery to death I'm still going for it because I can't back down in front of my people because I'm known as I have to go for it, it's like being in a mafia there's never a cut-off point do you dame or wallbub? I should have kept more money in my pockets that's the trouble I've given loads of money away to people I shouldn't have done there was a pub called The Fox Small pub and two of our top people used to run it and what happened one of the younger firms in 89 they turned around and said right they said to the older ones we're taking over you're past it on that so one of the older ones who's dead now he died of a drugs overdose little guy born in Ireland he's like a totter he pulled a gun out and pointed his guy's head and said who's taking over this was in the pub I was in the pub with my brother and cause I've been married to two black girls it's like racist people no one would say but a guy got out of his tree I bought a round of 14 people in the round in the pub at 89 he's sitting on the stall I just gave him his drink and he turned me down and said to me call me niggle lover so I ate him on the chin he went up in the air down on the floor I didn't round on that and I said to the two guys that's running the pub like our people in the circle I said sorry blah blah see what happened in there and then I just left the pub but that's fucking stupid you know what I mean but it's somebody made a film cover my life I think DC done it he said I'm on the fairground and I've got to get off of something have you heard that? every time I thought I was going to slow down some other incident would happen not just at football but to do with villainy and everything as well I had a guy he's passed away now lived in Bermond's he phoned me up he was a very famous guy villain from East London and he was with the art firm and he got in the blind beggar his son who's been a drug addict he's passed away now for 20 years come back on the scene in 2004 and he started giving it large to me in 2012 now he's problem I knew where he lived he didn't know where I lived he's on the phone and he must have been off his rocker because I couldn't get a word in edgewise and he turned around and said to me he's going to kill me put the phone down I got him a car, drove down to his house 7.15 on a Monday night knocked on the door I got a massive butcher's knife on me and I thought I'm going to do him in opened the door hello Bob, nice to see you can't mean we know each other see through with 12, have a cup of tea so I was sitting there for a drink and then he had a couple of people we were obviously serving up but he had some customers coming so then I went he had the opportunity to take me out he threatened to do it, I've gone down there told up and the guys but a lot of jealousy, what it is is people at Millwall because I took the mantle from a young age there's a lot of people at Millwall jealous of me a lot of people are going to do this and do that to me and I put a lot of people in their place and they don't like it I've probably got more innuities at Millwall than I have with the other teams but it's still only a small percentage but doing this now there's going to be people there's people over there we call them the jealous brothers there's people so if I do this or brought a book out and done a few more interviews on the social media they'd be and all that nonsense but because of my medical condition and I only need stuff I thought to myself because it's a long time since I've done any of this stuff what was it like 6 foot 3 boxer, brought up in Peckham with me I'm 2 and 3 4 years younger him known him from a young age he's met all my kids, mixed race kids and that and when I went to the captain's funeral in 2010 he was one of the six who carried his coffin my boy he's a bank manager and when he first got the area manager job working for Lloyds and Ali Fax I asked him a question you don't get if you don't ask I know what the answer was but I still I'll say can you put a load of bags out the bank with 50 pound notes and I'll come in a little van he's a straight goer though no one he was well-loved there was between 600 and 1000 at his funeral they said Mr Galwood you've got to stop smoking or he's getting cancer to throw you're smoking 60 bags a day and his answer was to smoke 100 didn't like to be told but in his latter years he used to he went in a club in the old Kim Rowe called the 99 and one of our older fellas was in there with my brother and he says I can't stay long I've got a bit of work to do you know what that is didn't you and he had his coat and he had a glock under his coat he used to do hits for up and down the country it seemed that because when I had Balon I think there was a phone call between the two of them just because they were old enemies would you ever have that if you were in your death bed and a West Ham man wanted the phone to try and have a chat with you what would you do? Uncle Bill yeah what would you do if you were lying in your death bed and something from West Ham wanted to speak to you what would you say? well the second will ever be off but yeah Tiny's a character but very much a character but yes the two blokes we miss most is him and the captain the guy with the beard he went in 12 December 12 and the other one went in March 2010 Tiny was only 57 and Dave was 65 does that make you sad when you see the old school ones came to pass and so young? yeah there's certain parameters you have to when I'm sitting opposite you I will not mention any names of people who are still alive when they're dead they're dead but I'm not a grass and I work to the old I've never had anyone over for big money and I've never grassened him up to the old bill so lepers don't change their spots and I'm not going to change I'm 65 so we work and a lot of people will be looking at they'll be shocked that I've started doing interviews again so yeah but good on you there's a chance you wouldn't have been here just a while back when a doctor says he's only seen one person worse than you when you initially came into the hospital were you all conditioned yeah but you've clearly got the fate and you're Bob do you know what I mean that but as I said to my mate Danny the big man anybody and I swear on my father's grave in front if anybody whether it be in my circle my team or if anybody I've lived a good life if anyone wants to try and take me out I want to meet me anywhere for some notice come and meet me silly old me ugly me you understand what I mean James where do you go forward to the future Bob and I've got a house in Blackpool which the Mrs is Mrs is up there at the moment my oldest daughter lives there well her two kids my oldest grandson's at Leicester University studying law but yeah we've got a house up there we've got that in November November 2014 but I've got a rented flat down in London I will go up there from time to time but I will never totally leave London I'll never totally leave London so well I've got my son down here my youngest daughter down here my youngest daughter's got four children she's only 32, 33 in March but my son's got one the bank man he's 39 he's going to try for one next year another one and my big daughter's got two up in Blackpool would you ever want your sons following your footsteps the mole wall scene I used to take my boy to the old ground but it's not because he's mixed race and all the black boys they used to mix with him, Peckham it's like they think we were still members of the Cluecoats clan but a lot of our some of our top boys have been black guys and we've still got a couple, Tiny's there but there's another couple and one's done little villainy like Tiny he came here when he was eight years old he's now 67 he knows how to make money now he's a preacher got a lovely new Mercedes he preaches in front of 200 or 300 like African and Jamaican Caribbean people, the happy clappers and he's got the gift of the gab and we've seen him from time to time but not that often what's your worst memory as a mole wall fan? Worst memory was May 72 when we thought we got promoted to the 1st division when we were told falsely that Birmingham had lost a chef for Wednesday and had beaten them and Orient needed to beat Birmingham in the last game of the season and there was 13,000 Millwall Orient 10,000 Birmingham and 10,000 Orient 33,000 crowd half-time there was a bombscare Birmingham won 1-0 so we never went up I was broken-hearted, I was 14 I was crying my eyes out but Is that the closest you have been to being in the top division? No, we've been in the top we went with the two Scottish managers John Docherty and Frank McLean Tuck What year was that? May 1988, we was in the top division for two years from 88 to 90 It's a long team, you have not been there but nearly 40 years We're trying James, what are you going to do? Are you going to get a book out or something? The feedback I get from this I hope it's good and I'm willing to do more interviews, a book and if I can get it organised of course there's a few people who have suggested maybe a film not to put him down but if Jason Marino can get 3 million up front and he's got the gift of the gab he's like Joseph Squirely he's got a squeaky bike but I've done 10 times more than him not being flashed I've done 10 times more than him Danny for setting up the interview as well would you like to finish up on anything Bob? Yeah it's a pleasure to have met you James and maybe we're bumping into each other in the future Yeah definitely Bob, bless him God bless you, take care you'll have the rest of your life mate just do what you want to do God bless man