 Hello Fringold, how are you doing? So yeah, the thing with the Sky Bridges was throughout that part of the gameplay I was like, there must be some obvious explanation or note or character line that I missed where they explain the fundamentally foundational part of how do you disconnect the arm of the crane and land it on two skyscrapers. I'm just curious about that logistic. Without anyone hearing the immense amount of noise that would make or seeing it moving or anything. They almost imply it's like, oh you know, post-sparkle lips, an accident happened and we're just making use of it. And I'm like, what accident? What did this? I mean, how far is something like that really going to get you? Like all the way across town, like the way they portray it? Or is it just going to like link between two buildings? Well, so that's the interesting part. They spent a shit ton of time climbing up a skyscraper to cross and then climb back down to the hospital. It's like, if you guys had just gone to the hospital, it's been way quicker. Yeah, actually not. But didn't we could have had a story where they crossed the fucking lane, we bridges across the... Well, they say like, you've got to avoid the WLF. It's like, you can do that. You can avoid anybody really. Besides... I feel like there's more than one way to get there. He surrendered himself to them anyway. She's like, hey, I'm Abby, WLF. And it's just like, so if you finally WLF, just be like, yeah, take me to the hospital and need supplies. Because for some reason at that point, she believes that she can just walk into the WLF, take supplies and leave. Remember, she's like, um, Isaac wants me to do it. And they're like, we just talked to Isaac. And it's like, oh no, my shit lie has already folded apart. Why did she think of something better than that? Yeah, it's like, with Owen or something, I need to get some supplies to help him. That's all you need. Because he wanted to do that point. Melt her and she's pregnant. Yeah. Great, great strategy, sending a heavily pregnant lady out on patrol. Hey, that was her decision. Her body, her choice. You know why they did that. Oh, yes. They wanted their plot point. Well, yeah, that's the interesting thing. That's probably a combo, I would say. Like they need Ellie to kill a pregnant lady, but they also wanted to have like the pregnant lady is a medic. He is about people's safety more than her own. He's on the front lines fighting and battling zombies. She's just so respectable and so wonderful and so strong. While I think most of us would be like, what the fuck? Why are we all letting her do this? Like, she needs to be at home. She needs to be looked after. What if your water break or what if you have like a complication from your fucking pregnancy? It's a really bad state of affairs when the walking dead has done the same thing, but like in a way that makes more sense. It's just, if it was like the game doesn't, because most people would look at that and be like, wow, that's pretty irresponsible, like downright. But the game doesn't seem to even recognize that. No, no one says anything about it. Like this is a normal thing. I was like, oh yeah. If you have a person inside of you, that doesn't mean that you should like be stopped from doing what you want to do really. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you can totally like leap from gantry to gantry and like pull yourself up over walls and stuff. It's not going to be physically difficult for you in the slightest. It's not like, you know, we're trying to rebuild the human race and it's going to be very important to keep pregnant women safe, you know. Well, you just think that Owen would be like, no, you're not fucking going. He doesn't get a say, okay? Fuck Owen. Who cares what Owen has to say? If he was just like, this is the equivalent of you taking like a newborn and strapping them to your belly and walking out into to fight people with guns and zombies. And she's like, no, my body, my choice. Oh, I thought you were talking about the Mandalorian there for a second. Oh, yeah, IG11 does that. I'm programmed to do only one thing, protect this child. Now I'll strap you to my fucking chance to win a battle field. And he doesn't like trying to protect baby Yoda until it's too late. Like, you know, he's already being shot at. It's fucking bizarre. Yeah, that whole episode is fucking crazy. People think that's good. People like it ended so well, a perfect ending to a great season. When you have a bad dough just blasting away at this crew of stormtroopers. They're just like, boom, we come across Ted at the end. It's like, I must self destruct. You're like, wait, we could just shoot them. They're really fucking garbage. You're like, you're really eager to self destruct these days. But they killed all the Mandalorians. Like, here's the thing. If you like Mandalorians, you should hate this show because it turns them into a bunch of whimpering morons. What if like, what if they all backed up? What, what IG level walks out there, birth payers self destruct. They're like, it's an IG unit. Move the fuck back. Yeah, we know what these things do. Also, this is the one who killed like 30 hundred thousand dudes effortlessly. We should, we should, I just don't know why they didn't immediately open fire. I was like, what are y'all doing? Are you trying to take it prisoner? I just hope season two is good. All right. That's what I hope. Even though we got so many concerns because they comfortable now that we're going to bring in so many OT references. Make your head spin. This is what happens when your expectations are suitably managed. It's like when you come from the sequel trilogy to this, like absolute garbage to something which is somewhat tolerable. You're like, wow, it's amazing. I think so. It's not as a, how do I put this? It's not as like offensive. Oh yeah. Yeah. A lot of my intro is here's why people probably like this. And I go into the sequels and the prequels and. It's like a fan movie that's been made by someone who's. Yeah. Semi-talented. I think that's the best I can say. So anyway, we're here to talk about the last two. Yay. There's a certain video that I was told the title of and I was like, really though. And it's funny because the title, the top comment he's pinned is you should change the title. And he's just said, nah. I was like, okay, not the wisest way to start your argument with you guys are dumb. It's like, okay, this is going to put everybody on a, you know, wonky thing. But either way, this is EFAP 98. We're getting very close to that number 100. No new blood this time around, but a mix of all kinds of blood. Look at the blood on screen. All different colors. It's wonderful. Drunk people. Doggos. Which doctor? No. What's it called again? Plague doctors. Plague doctors. Oh, we even got a replicant. Like, how cool is that? And then a meme. A chungus punching. Oh, that part of the game was so good. Maybe the greatest take down ever. It's such a reward for playing through the fucking garbage. You're like, oh, wow. Thank you. Mike Tyson checks his closet and under his bed every night to make sure that fat Geralt isn't hiding under there. Everybody wants DLC of Fat Geralt. Everyone wants it. Even those who hate Fat Geralt want Fat Geralt DLC. What was Fat Geralt doing the day before Ellie rocked up? Dude, I need to see him in a hospital room crying over his dad having been killed by Abby. After his dad saved an elephant. It's really, you know, and it's just, I think it comments on the cycles of violence. What do you think, Fringy? I feel like that's what it's doing, you know? I want the cycle. And you know what? That alone is reason to say this game is a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. Best game ever. It took a little risk. Let's not talk about whether or not the risk actually paid off. They took a risk. So it's good. You watch the new Star Wars films. The guy shitting in a room for 10 hours. You're like, oh my gosh, so risky and bald. And it's like, well, it's not very well executed. It's like, I don't know. I think so. Somebody in a chat said crash for hype. I agree. I just watched the new trailer. That game looks really good. I'm actually really surprised and happy. Gonna have good things, hopefully. Fucking nerd. Play games like Lost of Us 2. What are you doing? Narrative focused, interesting games. Not your kiddie game. We've talked about this, right? We've watched a lot of reviews for the last of us two. It's been painful. Yeah, it's been tough to get through. And one of the things you've noticed is a lot of people who say that they're Naughty Dog fans, by what they say, it's pretty clear that they're only talking about post-Uncharted 2. I think they would be like... They don't even know they make anything outside of Uncharted Lost of Us. They're like, those are their games. It feels like, because they're like, oh, you know, Naughty Dog's games are typically, you know, pretty railroading and restrictive. It's like, dude, Jack 2 and 3 are open world games. Like, what are you talking about? It's funny though, because most people don't even know what you're talking about. Like, Jack what? Well, yeah, because they'd be like, what's Jack? And they probably don't even know they made Crash as well. And it feels like Naughty Dog, I don't really want Naughty Dog to make Jack 4 anymore. I don't really want them to make Jack 4. What's that? Could you imagine Jack 4 under Neil Druckmann? Well, I'd be a subversive. It'll come in on the cycles of peace, you know? Of the cycles of Dark Jack, you know? Dark Jack, maybe a little too dark, you know? It just opens with, like, a domestic abuse situation. He's at home and he's just throwing bottles of alcohol at his wife. Well, maybe it'll be about, like, maybe Daxter will be abducted by, like, super hardcore, like, I don't know, omnivore supremacists. They're like, you know... Hate-hating Christian cult. Well, I feel, what, an arts-all-hating cult, you know? Jack's going to go in front of the same Jack. And we're gonna have that scene where he's forced to kill someone and he, like, goes into his knees crying with blood all over him and the game absolutely passed away. Well, no, because this is the thing, right? Jack is, like, a cool franchise that actually has a pretty good writing and they've already addressed the whole thing of Jack killing a lot of people and they just kind of, like, hand wave it away. He's just like, yeah, I kill a lot of people, you know? You get used to it. It's pretty good. It's a pretty good series. Like, it's actually well-written, but it feels like... it feels like I don't think Naughty Dog are going to make those types of games anymore. Like, it seems like, well... Fun, late-hearty games. Yeah, pretty much. It's the packaging though, I think, with a lot of things. People don't even, you know, like, we talk about a lot of classic Simpsons, how well-written it is. They're like... Well, I think that's absolutely right, because I've said this a lot of times, but those PlayStation 2 platformers, Jack, Ratchet, and Sly Cooper, they're all really well-written games. Like, surprisingly well-written. I think if people replayed them, they'd be like, wow, this is pretty sharp. And it feels like... They wouldn't be looked that way because they're not a narrative focus. No, because... It's funny, right? There are games that actually have pretty big narrative components, but there are also gamey games where once you play the game, like, it lets you play the game completely, you know, until the next cutscene, basically, as opposed to interrupting it constantly and forcing you to play it one way. You mean you don't like walking simulators? Well, it's not even... Well, I mean, I don't. But, like, imagine watching a movie in the... Like, end game, he goes, I am, I am, and he pauses, and it has a square on screen. You pick up your controller in the square, and then he clicks, and you're just like, why did... why? Just do it. Why am I here? And they simultaneously are like, oh, well, you know, it's supposed to make you at odds with the character. Like, you don't even want to be here. It's supposed to make you feel as though I'm sitting there like, it's not... I don't need to, like, want to do a different action and then be forced to do another action to experience, like, this brand new, modern look at how video games may... I'm just like, you're just using that as an excuse for a shitty, railroaded game. We all know this. Every time there's a cutscene with the fucking QTE, as people who've played a shit ton of games, you're just sitting there like, oh, God, they want to make me feel like I'm involved. I get it. Yes, I'm playing to... look at me. Yeah, I'm here, it's a game, I understand. This is a video game, what we're doing. And then they kill me, because I didn't press square fast enough, and I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake. Oh, no, I could see Abby die. Oh, no. Oh, no, it's just the worst thing ever. Can't believe you've done this. I did not take advantage of that. I think I've seen every single possible death animation for her. It was great. When Ellie shoots her in the face after knocking her down in the theater, it's just like, yep, I'm involved with that one. It's just the end of the game there. It's just the end of the game. It's just the end of the game. Oh, man. You just get a second shot of her face just getting obliterated by that shotgun. One of the first things I did when I played it was to see if I could kill myself off the cliff, and I realized by watching other stuff that some people have been doing because they hate it. I was like, oh, I was just testing mechanics. I was just curious if they'd let me go off the edge. Because a lot of games, especially games like that, will be like, nope, you're not allowed to kill yourself. That's naughty. Yeah, it's like we couldn't be bothered animating that. Well, it's interesting because I think the most telling example of the game forcing you to one direction is if you don't beat up Nora, the game will automatically do it anyway. It doesn't matter. Which is totally at odds with the idea that it's forcing you to, you know, come to terms with actions you don't want to commit. It's like, if I just let the controller stay down, I still win. Game play. Win, you know, progress. When Abby's getting attacked by a runner just before Joel saves her, right? I actually was not pressing square at all and she still survived. So what's the point? Like, if you think these aren't interactive, it feels that way, doesn't it? Like, it feels like you don't want me here along for this experience doing anything. So just play it for me, you know? Yeah, I actually do think it would have been able to function better without these arbitrary moments where it's like, hey, hey, hey, press the button. Well, the interesting thing is a lot of reviews say that it takes, like, as though it is a good example of what you're meant to do as a video game in terms of trying to tell a story and that really frustrates me a lot. Well, you're like, no, don't advocate for this. No, stop. Don't advocate for things being more like movies where I have no agency. It's more like the idea of, what is it about the last of us two that it benefits from being a video game? Because the game doesn't make me feel bad about what's happening. So I don't see how it's... It disregards your input. It doesn't make me feel connected to any of the quote-unquote choices being made. The fundamental of interaction, like choice, being able to choose to... even choose to not act, just all these different elements. And it's just like, are you really taking advantage of that? It's like, not really. Yeah, the example that I've used before is like the Walking Dead game, the Telltale one, where you've got the option at one point, you've got a group starving and you happen across like an abandoned car with some supplies in the back. You can choose to take them and help some of your group or not. And if you don't take them, like your group is less likely to survive, they're all going to hate you for it. You do take them. You can find out later on that the person you took them from lost one of his family members because of that, because they didn't have enough supplies to survive. It was a choice that you made. You didn't have to do it, but it recontextualizes it because you get to see the repercussions of it. The interesting one with that is if you do choose not to take it, the group takes it anyway. But I don't actually have a problem with that because I think video game choices that don't necessarily directly impact the plot will still say a lot about you, you know, to where it's even... Well, they will then hate you, or they'll hate you, but they'll trust you less and like you less because you didn't want to let them take it. I guess what I mean is the whole idea of like, I think the reason why I like choice in video games is not because of the consequences necessarily, but because it can make you think and it can make you wonder if like, huh, I wonder why I thought that that was the right thing to do. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah, why did I make that decision? Well, it's just funny because we would shit on telltale all the time for choice that isn't like fulfilling enough or deep enough or blah blah blah, but it's just like, well, I mean, it's a hell of a lot better than someone going, you have no choice. Isn't this meaningful? I feel bad. I feel bad about the choice that you didn't make. Okay. I'll try. There's no need to defend the spec ops, the line that has, that game has decisions and it doesn't tell you what your options are a lot of the time. So it does actually say a lot about what kind of person you are. I mean, what keeps getting repeated by different reviews that we've seen is the whole like, if you finish the game wanting Abby to die, you like failed the game's test. I know, not really. No, this is a failure of the game. The game failed to tell an adequate story. I've been, it's been interesting because I've actually been replaying through infamous to recently. Oh, yes. Great game. Love it. And while the, the karmic choices are, it's not like super complex. It's nice because at least when I'm playing like Spider-Man PS4, I don't have like the option to hurt civilians, but an infamous I actually do. I have to be a lot more conscious about not hurting anyone when I'm in the middle of like a, like a firefight with the militia. Yeah, yeah. I think the morality systems tend to be wonky, but like even morality systems can be cool in that they at least give you a reason to replay the game twice and play it in a different way. But the last of us, who doesn't really beg to be replayed. Unfortunately, when you look back on that era, because I think Bioshock can jump in there as well. The whole kill the little sisters or save them. I think the criticism would be like, Oh, it's a pretty simple system. It's not, you know, like the criticism was like, maybe we can move on from here. Maybe we can make it more complex. And it's like as time goes on, we just have more things against the way. We decided to abandon it entirely. Like the problem with the system was that, there was too much incentive to play one way because of all the things that you get going for one way or the other. Yeah, that was my, it's always been an issue with Mass Effect. As good as that game was the morality system and that was really kind of shitty. Yeah, it just needs to be power gone or renegade. The Bioshock one, you get, the returns are better with saving the little sisters about a third of the way through the game. Like as long as you can last that long, then you'll start getting way better shit if you do that. And I don't know, I think it's more potentially more interesting to have it be that you get better rewards for being, you know, for doing devious shit, like killing. Well, that's what they tell you. That's what they say to you at the beginning. They're like, oh yeah, if you, if you, you know, suck them dry, then you'll have more Eve to spend. Which is why I would say it still functions, especially for a first playthrough, for a player to think about. Like it still works and not end. But once you know the game, you'll be like, no, I'll save them. I get more shit. Yeah, I think I personally prefer if, if an infamous, the powers weren't locked to which karma you were on. So you were allowed to be more morally gray and still unlock like the good powers, I guess. Yeah. Like, you know, unlock a mixture of good powers and bad powers. That would be cool. Actually, I was about to like, yeah, that would be cool entirely. I think I'd be up for that. I think games like the Witcher 3 maybe do it the best where there's no karma system, no world system at all. It's just, here's the story. Here's the characters. Here's the scenario. There, go make your decision. Yeah. It's like a, Witcher 3, just general RPG. Here are your decisions. We're not going to tell you what is good or bad. Yeah. You get to choose. There is going to be consequences either way. Go for it. Witcher 3 was really good at that. Like there was quite often like not a strong indication of which was the morally correct choice and which was the more devious one. Like you just were presented often with difficult situations. That's what I was thinking. Last of us could quick way better if like the game presented all of the repercussions and benefits of pursuing revenge slash justice and then the game ends with a choice. Yeah. The game should have ended with a choice and it's funny because Ghost of Tsushima ends with a choice and it's a really good choice. It's like basically tethered to exactly what the plot of the game is about. Pretty good. Well technically the first game ends with a choice that's similar to Spec Ops The Line. He shoots the doctor in the foot. He goes unconscious and it doesn't count as a kill. So it's just he can't eyes. He can't eyes in the second game. It was like oh shit my foot. The pain is just so much. He just falls unconscious. Oh no. He's played dead. He killed me but he didn't. What a good person. In his head. He's like if I've been shot in the foot that's enough to kill a person. Right. I'll play dead. He got me. Just leave the other two doctors alive. It's like Jerry you okay. We'll patch you up buddy. You'll be saving zebras again. I like how in the first game the doctor looks pretty disheveled and you know like he's got really dark bags under his eyes but in the new one he's like he's a nice good man. The hospital room is all like dank and there's bits and bobs that are very indicative of like a run down hospital that they're desperate. In the new game they're like it's a pristine hospital. There's such a look at this nice man who's trying to We care about medical procedure and sterilization and stuff like that. People argue that don't you idiot see? It's narrative bias. It's like an unreliable narrative. In the first game it was Joel. In the second game it's the truth or at least the other side of it. And I'm just sitting there like no the game just wrecked the shit. Don't lie to me. Doesn't it wreck on the entire race of the doctor that's performing the operation? I'm pretty sure he's black in the first game. He's very dark skinned but his facial features aren't exactly similar to a black person's. I can try to find the photo. He looks like he's like tired and old and has been through a lot more so than like he looks darker but I'm pretty sure he's a white guy. Yeah it's tough to get the type of answer on that. But he looks like a really old man. Like that's kind of the thing or at least if not old really weathered. The debate is still raging on that one as to whether he's black. The fact of the matter is that we're trying to discover what they have and haven't retconned from the first game just to be sure. Well I can give you an example of a retcon which I think South Baldwin and I have talked about this one but in the first game you find the recording that Marlene says that she's grappling with the decision as to whether or not to kill Ellie and she's like I think I'm gonna do it. The recording ends with her basically committing. The cutscene we see where she finds out this is the case she approves of it instantly. Yeah. So that recording is now like... Well that instantly but she approves of it by... I just mean within that conversation. Like that same conversation it gets approved so it's like when did you hit that recording and that doesn't even make sense anymore. Do you want to pull up the thing that I sent, Mueller, and have chat debate? Chat debate whether this guy's black or white. Well I mean this is why the debate's raging on. Raise debate on E fat. I like how they've gotten smiling in their revised version. Well I think it's clear that we all understand that The Last of Us 2 wasn't in mind whatsoever when they completed The Last of Us 1. One of the reviews we watched said oh this is a part 2. It is a part 2 not a sequel. It needs to exist you know. It was clearly not even conceived when they made the first game. This game as a whole doesn't need to exist. It doesn't add anything valuable to the story and it undermines so much. Oh if anything it undermines it and detracts from it. By the way people say that he only looks this way because of the lighting in the room. You can see a dude in the background who's clearly white. I'm pretty sure if he was intended to be white he would make his skin look lighter than this. It is really weird because I think I showed a screenshot. I don't know if it was rags or any of you guys but where I shot my gun in the room and you screenshot him at that point and he looks pretty white but I don't know if it's from the glare of the gun fire or if it's because he's this model is white I don't actually know. It's like the black and blue or white and gold dress again. They look totally different. Oh of course these two aren't the same person we know that much. The thing is right if someone had been asked to come up with the concept of a sequel to this game this feels like the kind of efforts of like a fan fiction writer who's like 16 years old. It's like oh how can we tie it together? The daughter of like the doctor from the first one she wants to kill the person who killed him. Yeah the game thinks it's smart for that but it's like the game we've killed so many NPCs what do you mean? Yeah this is a really tenuous link in the first place. Not only have we killed a lot of NPCs but the game is now going to make us kill a bunch more just unskeptically and happy as well. No they say their names when they die. It feels like the game is driving through a whole city of people while being like driving people. Driving into people is so wrong and you're like oh yeah I guess you shouldn't do it right and it's like you shouldn't do it. Boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. No this seems awkward to me. Especially with their their efforts to the fuck it I think the explosive arrow really puts the argument of the grave it's like why do you have this it's like because it looks cool when you kill people like i don't know if explosive arrows or something that people would really be worrying about in the post-apocalyptic future that you're presenting us with here i feel like those explosives could be put to much better use than sticking them to the ends of arrows i think i think they added it because it's cool to watch a fountain of blood explode out after piles of flash from an enemy i think that's why they did it honestly right it's it's cool as fuck yes the thing and of course that is at odds with the game's thematic goals and you're like guys you need to be like bad bad ass i love the the damage physics sometimes just goes batshit crazy like i shot someone in the leg with a pistol and their entire leg just fucking came off oh yeah i hate that lying on the ground screaming i hate that i'm no expert but i'm pretty sure a pistol shouldn't do that to you not a pistol round no you're telling me that nine you're telling me that uh nine millimeter shots can't take off a person's leg singlehandedly maybe a really skinny person i'll shoot you with my nine millimeter handgun and it just blows off their entire head i'm like no this is silly well what do you expect from a developer rounds okay what do you expect from a developer that's based in california refers to pistol magazines as clips i don't like it yeah i do i do that sometimes oh man i uh i've played magazines that's in fully their mags yeah magazines a clip is like a world war one type thing that you put in the gun and then clip the thing off right it's like basically it's attached to a long strip of metal basically no yeah like it's not it's not something you read idiot no i don't think i think a magazine is the one with the housing so basically all modern weapons yeah the uh yeah clips are basically obsolete i use clips in my guns but people think it sounds cool to say but that's weird that an australian would get it more accurate than an american like a lot of americans actually so anyway if i figure this uh we should probably jump in because we got you know so much to cover the first video he's arguing i guess from the title that you're dumb if you think the last of us is bad so it's like oh well your joke get me i'm just fine dumb well this is the thing it's like go ahead it's providing counters i suppose um but it's just funny when you have videos that are like i'm getting mean comments it's like if you're gonna if you're gonna label it that way i don't like what are you all my videos get lame or mean comments fucking grow up well yeah that well i yeah there's that but it's also like i don't think people realize how like cruel they can be without realizing it and then they're like why are people mad at me it's like because you were really mean to people i was dumb because i didn't like a video game yeah you may not have sworn but you said something pretty nasty like yeah like you don't have to try and be mean to say things that people will be like that's that's that's that is everyone in actually let me just i'll pull up a video and oh god yeah everyone's seeing that yeah i am on the watch together yet hold on you're fun this is what i do it looks like a much better game than what we got well the the shot is just a shot of ali and joel you're like oh this looks better can i can i yeah can i just say that that part in the trailer where the superimposed joel's character model over like a different character that's actually in that scene in the game to make it seem like he's going to have a bigger part yeah fuck you naughty dog for doing that like they're hiding stuff like plot details and trailers but then there's like just outright lying saying oh yeah joel is going to be in this and it's going to be a joel and ali adventure it's even more spooky than that uh all the reviews the uh friggin i watched that were all in barga related so ones that wanted to get shit out but couldn't quite none of them have any mention of abbey by rule and all the footage in seattle of ali doesn't have dina on the horse it's she's not there yeah that's just that's the contrast it's almost like they knew no one would care about dina like yeah no one does she's such a boring fucking character yeah if you want to have a conversation about dare i say it ethics and game journalism this is what we're talking about this is flat out false advertising is what this is because it will fit so that trick because i didn't know about this i stayed away from uh the trailers marketing and stuff so there's that that shot there's this trailer i was kind of shocked to see it and uh freeing was like oh yeah do you know about this so the trailer where the like around a campfire dina and her and dina's wearing a bracelet and then it cuts to um ali wearing it in a fight the implication being that dina died and that that's that's what the game is going to be about and then you have a shot where joel is saying do you think you're going to do this alone they lead you to believe that dina uh is going to die someone's going to kill it and then she's going to go on a revenge quest with joel which by the way sounds like a crowd-pleasing sort of storyline you'll be like oh yeah she's such a better game yeah dina's a terrible character joel's a great character having joel and ali traveling together i mean oh but having having joel and sorry having uh tommy and ali traveling together to avenge joel would have been better than what we got yeah imagine the game was just joel wasn't anyone he's just running around don't go to avenge joel by killing joel he just no dude he just walks around with his musics on the world he's like hmm this place is pretty pretty i mean imagine like you know as much as i would hate for them to kill off ali if it were you playing joel to avenge ali would be like oof like player engagement would be at like firing on all cylinders basically right there's like i couldn't protect her but i'll you know i'll avenge her as a sort of thing could you imagine joel even like forgiving ali's killer the way that ali forgives joel's killer well fuck no he strangled that bitch the story that's um the story that's you know baited in those trailers gives me the the idea of being like oh shit we're gonna you know it could be like a journey where joel sees ali slowly like getting stripped away by all this anger and a goal to kill while he's an ub1 is mid 50s at this point or some shit if because yeah she looks quite old uh like like she looks she looks more like a woman than a teenager in in the trailer i was referencing with the bracelet well what i'm saying is the trailer made her look like she could be early 20s mid 20s and so it's just the implications that joel would be much older she would be relied upon for a lot of things where he might be stumbling and in his age he's he's like maybe we shouldn't you know do x y and z and then you can you can have all the shit that happened in the previous game come up she can be she can reference it as being like you you didn't even tell me what you did i know she's like i'm not stupid i know you did something and he can have guilt about you know there's so much to explore and instead it's like yeah it's like well he's he's just dead straight away like okay funny because one of the things you notice a lot in the reviews is the implication that having a joel and ellie adventure would just be the same as though there's no way that the dynamic change well there's a million things you could do with the characters and progress them like characters evolve you don't have to evolve them by murdering some of them well back to the future one two and three are all the same load the rings one two and three are all the same it's all the same characters they're all no they all suck it's i think we talked about as well uh bringing the whole logic of uh they did in the sequel trilogy it's like you know han luke and leia's story is over and it's like why why are you saying that like what they're old now so they can't be they can't have a story it's like what the fuck is this yeah do we really want to i mean and and also like i don't think did they not realize like the old cool dude is like a really cool kind of story thing at this point lots of people like old war four creatures yeah i think a lot of people would be super keen on the idea of having characters who used to be very physically fit and active and young turning into the wise sagacious um types that you know they instruct and they teach and they take all that experience and channel it into good we still think particularly characters that have got a long history yeah like by definition that makes them interest and whereas if you're trying to bring in these young new characters who who are just blank slates essentially you're never going to form the same attachment to them you haven't known them as long and you start to think well getting one we're um yeah we're large in numbers yeah yeah uh like like ellie's beating someone for information and and like he stops here halfway through and he's like you got this is we've got the information you can stop beating him and well and she can look at him like disappointed and angry because she feels like she may have learned it from him there's so much you can do with a company like that you're like what did you learn from me exactly you know when i was doing all that stuff what did you what did you pull from all that what did you yeah it goes to show that you don't have to kill off joel even though i am going to argue that there was a way that they could have killed joel off two hours two hours in not not too like uh an amazing romanticized blaze of glory type death it could have been brutal and anticlimactic and sad and it could have kicked off the story and and then you would be forced to try to sympathize with the person who did it and it would have worked and i will go into that later on i guess but i will say the direction that they wanted to take even though i personally would have gone a different direction had i been the writer i'm not opposed to it inherently i just think that the execution of it is terrible one of the ideas i suggested was that um they they confused tommy with joel like joel sorry tommy takes the rap for joel and they murder him and then joel is the one who goes off on a revenge trip and ellie's the one who has to try and bring him back again you can you can take it in that direction and they're all better i'm just like why why did you decide to knowingly do the thing that would just upset people like all the options you could have done as if they went out of your way because everyone needs to be miserable and you can come away from games it's as if they think their message can't be achieved without making the audience miserable i just feel like oh that's that seems like a limit on your part to be honest with you you're like oh we can't explore this topic without everything you love and if you don't like it then that's on you yeah i'd be okay with doing a crowd-pleasing type story absolutely that's the one that i would personally go for if i have total creative freedom but if i'm having to work under the confines of what the writer wanted i'm like okay i'll try to achieve the same thing that you're going for here but i'm going to try to achieve it with a better execution one thing i don't like is the implication a lot of reviews that it is diametrically opposed it is either a crowd-pleasing story or a story with merit you know like you see that a lot and is reviewed like oh you know they could have done what you wanted you like it's the whole luke flipping around argument right it's like well i mean what i yeah why can't i have luke flipping around necessarily you know or he drinks green milk it gets all in his beard it's like those are the two actions okay well this is from esquire it says so of course i don't assume that the last of us part two will please everyone it's not built to please you good stories never are yeah that's the thing a lot of good stories are built to make people happy or just enjoy it i mean what the fuck what's the point of telling stories if not to make people pleased for having you know they don't necessarily have to yeah they don't have to necessarily make you happy but it's usually a good product of a quality story if all stories just made you miserable and sad then people would stop telling stories and listening to stories like i want to feel miserable i guess the problem that i have is there's almost like this it's almost like people think that the correct feeling after playing the last of us two is deflated and just like pretty apathetic like and and i don't know like all of my favorite movies like including the ones that are sad do not make me feel deflated and yeah i usually describe my experiences engaged yeah engaged is just pretty much the the right way when i watched i know i given i didn't get to the end and i'm like i'm i'm upset that that happened i didn't like it it made me feel uncomfortable i regret watching it i'm like no it's depressing in a way but you know i i feel there's a lesson learned you know i feel like i can apply this in a way and it makes sense all this sort of stuff there's a way to do it i didn't come away hating it and hating the people who make it like they weren't i didn't feel like i was getting shat on as a person for consuming their content those movies are satisfying to watch because like you can you can get invested in the characters even though they're depressing stories or they might be hard to watch at times they're still they're still satisfying that's the last not satisfying to play like everything everything deflates and just falls apart and it's like oh i just played that sure and yeah a lot of the time when you have a an ending that's so well executed that you would argue you're enjoying it and then you have to have a friend be like this is this is a sad ending by the way you know like yep because it's just how well executed was that you will just like that was fucking great you're like this is this is bad though you're like the whole point is that this is like yeah and you're like yeah sad face this is this is where however with this game someone would have to be like well this is the funniest the reverse with this game people like no this is a good ending because she didn't kill her and you're like i don't know oh i don't know i i would have done differently than the character and i think the character would have as well so she would have definitely done different it's the alley from the first game like yeah there's no way fucking abby would have been walking away from that breathing if there was a time for it to give up i think it should have been that um abby put lev into a boat and then offered uh ellie to come with them and then ellie would have been like fucking hell like this is like i was and then she could be like i came here to kill you and abby could be like oh and you could get them to have a conversation that would have been so much better than you're stupid why did you climb back down with the ocean well seriously like if you want to just give the character the player a choice like that could be the ending choice you have the two boats one of them is she goes to her own boat and then she talks to abby and the other is you go to her boat and then ellie tries to kill abby i'm like that that could be an interesting choice like and it's like but that's the trouble that i have with the ending there there needs to be some sort of like reconciliation between them they need to talk about like joel and everything yeah because there's there's no indication that like this couldn't just happen again like abby might go away like recover from this and then come after ellie again when she's ready the cycles of is never going to end my reputation of the ending is that ellie walks off into the woods and she decides well i can't play guitar anymore because of abby so i gotta kill abby again yeah i could just flip the guitar around the other way blame the controller just mentioned as well it's not joel's death it's the necessarily the the problem is the fact that she never went she knows she was never punished for her crimes and a lot of people in videos will argue that's ridiculous look how much she goes through and it's like none of it is connected to joel yeah none of it is the result of joel revenge it's all different shit and you might be like well what ellie does to her at the end it's like i don't even know what ellie's fighting for at that point ellie's just lost in mind like if ellie was that yeah ellie could have killed her when she was still strapped to that post that she was on but she lets her go so that they can have some like weird she could have killed her a lot of times fight in the ocean and it's hardly you can hardly call it punishment for abby that ellie killed all of her friends i'd be like that's some bullshit morals that's like she's she's suffering as a result you're like that she never acknowledges the pain that she put tommy and ellie through nope she realizes that she basically became joel for ellie like she took someone's father away from from them it's like there's no realization that they became the monster that they were fighting there's no uh her explaining to joel why she's doing what she's doing there's no second thoughts because of the fact that joel saves her life and is the reason why she's still alive and not having her throat ripped out by which by the way i think was a big mistake they shouldn't have had him save her life because it made everything even harder to believe that she would do it yeah yeah i it's like misfiring at every stage of the story i would actually argue it may have been better to have repeated what we've seen of joel before where you see like she's struggling with a zombie she's like help me and she sees him and he's like it's too late for her and like they move away and then she gets out she gets to them she's like what the fuck and they're like sorry just you know like like you can keep it relatively in character and you can also give her even more reason to be like this guy is a fucking pure asshole like it's it's not gonna surprise me that i'm gonna want to fucking kill him instead they're like he's a pretty good guy he's like he constantly is victimized because he does nice things in this like when he helps when he when he helps ellie like yeah i think about how what that does to the fucking theme but he helps abby abby ends up brutally killing him okay uh he comes to the defense of ellie and dina when she gets called a dyke and he gets shat on like man joel you're just this game just doesn't like you is how it comes across throughout the whole thing yeah he's just being nice and good and wonderful in the game shit not him for it like why do people not like this or joel or joel is it better this game does this game was on joel so this game took it i suppose we'll get started is everyone ready yeah that's fine yeah i'm ready let's learn how dumb we are yeah two 20 minute long videos coming right up you can do it so after a few days i have finally beaten the last of us part two and did i enjoy it well not the whole time i mean i should point out that i didn't even really like the first game all that much i think that game has a 10 out of 10 story with six out of 10 gameplay oh that's actually a pretty fair assessment of the first game i'd say 10 out of 10 story i'd say it's it's you know good better than him saying that he just hated the story and the gameplay i'm surprised i didn't really like the first game really like an average right out of 10 well you can't tell what these people you never know what they're going to like and not like you just don't have you have no idea yeah for me a sequel has to justify why it exists did this then you must have hated it i don't even know i don't know why it's not existence at all i'm not even sure how conceptually what exactly that means like it has to add meaningfully maybe to the content or something like i don't know if you would you guys say you would you adopt that same metric like a game has to justify itself yeah a sequel has to justify itself well i think it has to add something it has to feel like it's it's built on the predecessor i mean i would say in the sense of it being a video game if it's nothing but this is a fun game it just is if all it is is a game that carries on the characters or story in some way has a two slapped onto it and it's just fun to play i think a game that's fun to play is justified yeah video games are different to our like because it's not strictly narrative focused the main point of a sequel is to expand gameplay and mechanics well your first style was a sequel to a new hope didn't actually take on anything in terms of characters or will building from the first one and it was a different part of the galaxy and it was a pretty strong film i probably like well i mean it's okay yeah i mean it was good as well written as well made film and with the game is like well was it fun like if it didn't shit all over everything that came before it and it was a fun game to play then yeah even if it was mostly removed from it sure yeah a fun game justifies itself with the fact that it's fun pretty much like all of the uncharted games are pretty much standalone stories and you can just jump into them and you don't have to necessarily play through the previous one to understand what's going on in the one that you're currently playing um so it's like it's not like there's a continuing through line that's going through all of the games um there's just fun standalone adventures i was about to say pretty much every sequel is going to stand alone like you pretty much every sequel could technically have not been made and the other stories still last like even something like fellowship with the ring which is like all one continuous story like fellowship with the ring is still a great film and it stands on its own so like technically you could say there's no point in having any sequels but like why why do we still watch them why do we still play them it's like it's because they they add to the story they add to the characters like that's that's the point of a sequel i'd say i mean i guess it would have to qualify as adding to the ip in some way shape or form otherwise you'd be like why does it have that name yeah it can have totally different characters in the same universe and otherwise be totally removed from it might be fine with that for and on the flip side they could end up in a different universe but we keep the same characters right um yeah universal travel in some way shape or form and it's like yeah you know i think i think the key element is just you gotta have something from that first one as long as it's something moving it on a little bit but i don't know justifying its existence is an interesting concept to me just as i thought in my head like as if it has to prove that it should have been made to me while i'd be like well i mean i don't know did i enjoy consuming it it didn't decide to be made so it's already a weird kind of concept for talking about anything continued is the second game really worth it and that's what we're gonna talk about today as usual i'm gonna start with non-spoiler stuff and then warn you guys for spoilers later so let's start with the only non-spoiler aspects the gameplay my relationship with the gameplay in The Last of Us 2 is very strange for the first quarter of the game i heard in his voice when he does that you think he must really be fucking up his throat what they say is when you like when you speak that way it does fuck your throat up like consistently right eventually well that's the turn it on purpose is he like specifically talking about doing this voice that's like that would hurt you'd imagine just just to your regular voice man there's no problem yeah like he doesn't seem to be playing a character like it just he's still acting like a regular person he's pretty like you know neutral in terms of how he presents himself like why would you do this this is not binary i'm pretty sure because people are gonna start saying like he talks like this normally it's just like he um he's like he cranks the vocal fry when he does his videos um you can even tell between his videos sometimes it's heavier sometimes it's like hello everyone i'm moller you're like oh god it's like the girl from knives out in a frame oh yeah what are you talking about why why do that why you don't have to and yes sometimes like i said he cranks it up and it's the same with um closer look sometimes he cranks up the voice he puts on sometimes it's lighter the um it's a weird thing with i guess youtubers do like to to sometimes put on characters and voices and stuff and it's just different amounts of success with uh whatever you end up going with even drinker kind of does it right right no i no idea what you're talking about moller i was not having fun at all the game did not really challenge me and most of what you do is walk around in a semi open area looting cupboards and occasionally sneaking past zombies opening drawers and unlocking safes is pretty much talking about like uh during that part of the game he was he was boring like he's saying at first it wasn't uh very engage really change much from there so i'm not sure what's gonna be the you know i mean the the entire concept of worlds exploration in this game is not satisfying in the slightest because you never really uncover anything particularly interesting it's just more ruined buildings and and kind of empty rooms you'll find some junk you'll find some medical supplies that's it for the most part of Seattle day one is definitely the most sandboxy part of the game yeah i recall that being like the biggest slog game gameplay wise like feeling i don't know um you built a massive world uh for a for like a last of us game for a last of us environment but i'm not feeling particularly engaged here you know it also feels like a bait uh because that's in the earlier parts of the game which means all the reviews will definitely mention it it never tins up again yep it's like hmm gonna put a big old thinking phase on that not to mention by the way that i think you even said in my stream i'm not even a huge fan of it in this kind of game like this kind of game just it's kind of annoyed me i was like exactly where do you need me to go because uh the map i just it's like it's it's faux open world it's it's just a series of linear options even though you could argue that's what open world ultimately is but uh especially in this game there are like seven specific locations that can be explored and they've just maximized this current area in terms of loading like amount of the amount they could i'm just like you're just kind of pretending to be open world really i think um we need a new term for it you know not non it's it's between two and yeah um i have noticed it's it's all right evan echoes if i'm assuming he's on push to talk sorry if it's echo and i might just need to turn down my headphones a little bit it's whenever you're talking at the same time someone else does it um it reflects back i i just assumed it was pushed to talk or something yeah probably enclosed willed pseudo open loud soup these are all very good descriptives for what i'm talking about yes and if you if you want to take a game like bio shock and bio shock two which are fairly linear but there is a lot of stuff to explore and there's a lot of side rooms and side little mini businesses honestly yeah because you can go back to places they're frozen or whatever else and open up new areas the benefit that i think bio shock has is that it feels like an actual building uh oh you know the rapture it doesn't it doesn't feel like what seattle does where it's like where's the invisible wall because i know this isn't the city like i can't explore the whole thing so where's the max where am i not and you'll find a huge pile up of cars and you're like oh i guess that's there okay uh yeah and in a lot of it is just it rewards you in a good way for exploring it really is like hey here's some really good stuff this is uh you know here's some cool ammo that you could use on big daddies and here's some upgrades and here's some stuff yeah like here yeah there's nothing like and you've got your you've got your set grouping of weapons and stuff that that don't really alter throughout the course of the game you can't you can't get new ones in particular there's not like exciting new armor or anything that you can find so there's no real incentive to do it and i i think i explored like one extra building in seattle day one and i was like oh fuck this i'm going to my next objective see so i think that's a perfectly reasonable position to take um you can get an extra holster and a shotgun in seattle day one like you can in terms of this game you can make yourself a tad more threatening but like i'm cute i would play it again if not the fact that it's a nightmare game i'd like to see how far i can get in the game with basically just the pistol just see how much trouble i have but i have to imagine there's quite a bit of it but um especially on like the harder difficulties but it well it doesn't probably be a shotgun from like an enemy if you didn't pick up the one in the in the one building in seattle oh wait you're saying like you know the i guess you might know the answer this you know like the holsters and stuff if you miss them do you miss them forever or do they show up again i think that you miss them forever i don't like i mean the thing is that i picked up the holster at the same spot that you did so if uh if there's a different holster somewhere then it probably just like disappears if it detects that you already have one because you know the um the pill upgrade books and stuff i'm assuming if you miss some of them they'll spawn more of them or you can no not with my assumption not if it's like in last of us one because there's uh there's there's one book that i keep on missing because it's towards the end of the game and it doesn't like um it doesn't you know spawn in a different area when i go into like new game plus you know what i mean like uh it doesn't change one of the books i already have into the one that i'm missing it it's like nope it's always in that one spot there's a there's a few people in chat saying they do show up again about the holsters oh do they okay i'm that's that's just because i i picked up the holster in that one spot yeah i just i figured that's probably how they would do it it does make it feel a little bit more natural in your playthrough but it's like oh i found it here it's like oh you found it there i found it you know there's a cool bag and all sort of thing the the main weapons though i think usually they're they're found in like a mini cutscene like you you'll recover them from a dead body or something found somewhere where it's impossible to miss yeah most players will be seeing them yeah well like when when your pistol disappeared in your last best one playthrough mauler um there's a guy that was carrying a pistol you killed him and he drops his pistol and you could pick that up you know so i assume that the same thing would go for this one but then again there are certain features from the first game that are missing in this game such as the ability to swap out a bottle for a brick so and yet the mechanics have definitively upgraded according to basically all reviewers or at least all the what do we call them access reviewers people who like get to have access to the game so basically the people who play the first half hour on minimum difficulty yeah they're like oh my god it's so good oh it's so deep uh i mean i like the fact that you can go prone that there's tall grass that you can like crawl under cars and certainly not but um that doesn't that's not a good enough trade-off for the fact that combat is absolutely garbage now both when it comes to guns and hand to hand combat i think this tells a little bit of pee like drop into tall grass and you're safe it's like damn that's uh did any of you guys notice this as well you know some of the sections where you'll you'll get ambushed or whatever and you've got to get through an area and they've they've set the mechanics up so that it like it takes ages to force open a door and the idea being that like in the time that you're trying to get this thing open like that they'll be on you and you just can't do it until you've you've kind of killed everyone or snuck your way through it well that's the way i typically do it in both games is they have like kill arenas and then the way to escape the arena will be a door you have to tap triangle on they'll try and aim to have one NPC near that door ish so you have to get this kill here something with him well there was multiple times i was just able to sprint right through and get to the door before they could even get to me and like even though it takes a while to get it open there was still enough time to squeeze through before they could catch up to me and i was just like this is broken mechanics right here oh for sure the game does not protect itself from people messing around even on the hardest difficulties it's like don't mess around you're like i don't know it seems to work though well it just annoys me about the uh the sandbox section in seattle uh i'm not gonna call it open world but sandbox works well enough i guess is like with the last of us one when you're going around different rooms exploring trying to find supplies and everything it's a small enough area that you're not feeling like you're being taken on too big of a detour from your actual like objective and your destination but man with last of us two you're feeling well if it's like the first game i'm gonna want to pick up as many supplies as i can and i have this massive area to to search through not to mention a map that's not exactly like the most fun to keep on checking because i have to go through this like uh animation where she's pulling out the map and it's not exactly an easy map to read either so it's just yeah i didn't find the map too useful at first because i was just like i'm not exactly not only is it not entirely clear exactly where my sort of places that i can go are but where the limits are even on the map because i i i didn't realize i could go to people saying like go to the bank and i was like i didn't i thought i'd hit my limits i didn't realize it was more to this area well did you circle where your home was oh see that was the issue and it's funny because again like you play metroid and you're just like oh my god maps will never be better and then play last was two and you're like yep maps will never how did they make it worse i thought we learned our lesson 20 fucking years ago it's because they want to make it realistic they're like it's like a real map and you're like yeah yeah but if it was a real map then i would understand it so apparently you can pick up later and the shotgun later but you know what you can't see later if you if you skip over the seattle sandbox you don't get to see ellie singing take on me to dina which was such a role scene with so many feels and you also don't get to pick up the dr uckman card either so it's all worth it right and big losses there like of all the storms that you could fucking pick as well take on me like if you wanted a good map and you want to be real then whenever you pull out the map you give it a second and then ellie says all right so i'm here and she points on the map to where you are like she's actually reasonably talking to herself is like okay you open a map i'm at this place point there i am and then she holds it open and then it's just there's so many ways to do this that are better and i don't feel like they just explored any of comes across as a game where they just went with the first idea that they had oh i think the when you decided i'm going to kill joel and then have a story that says hey revenge maybe it's not so good everything followed after that it was like oh yeah everyone in the room is like journey all like we didn't kind of do that if you don't want to this is what i do you really like our first game we got a lot of good will that yeah but that's an investment and it's time to cash in i'm like oh my god the only thing that i felt uh like rewarded for exploring the area was when going into the bank and seeing like the the corpses in the bank vault and like that's an interesting lore there the guys planned a bank robbery on outbreak day and just like that was cool lore but and the rest of the game actually doesn't have like documents and notes and lore that's nearly as interesting as guys tried to rob a bank on outbreak day and they just got stuck in there yeah no that's just great little bits of storytelling that you could work in everywhere like when you play as something like the fallout games you everywhere you go there's these little you know hints about people that have survived the war or like what they were doing the days the bomb started dropping like all these things are just interesting to look at as you pass by they create a sense of atmosphere and a world that's lived in but here it's kind of just a blank slate with these occasional bits of like you know tiny little hints of a story it's just not enough like that's that's the incentive to explore for me is like you know learning more about this world and like finding little clues about things that have gone on before there's just not enough of it honestly i'm kind of bored of reading notes whether the meme is like day one we managed to make it to blah blah blah we have supplies everything's going great day two i'm infected oh no day three everyone dies oh man it's not these things like it doesn't make sense that there's this wide open area to explore and uh there's so few supplies that are scattered everywhere it's not that that doesn't make sense it just doesn't make for a very engaging gameplay you know at least for me yeah if there's no reward in terms of like resources particularly for doing it because often you have to clear out areas in order to like find the things that are in it and you end up using just about as much resources as you are able to harvest anyway so there's not that and there's not really much satisfaction to be had from like a storytelling world-building point of view either pretty soon you're just like yeah i'm just not going to bother exploring i'm just going to stick to the critical path and get through this as quickly as possible well uh springing i watched a review that was positive about the game and commented on how annoying it is to have to uh search all the thighs all the place so you could just hit on an accessibility option that highlights everything this collectible you could just do that really damn yeah i actually used that in my playthrough because i just gave no fucks about the game but this piece was like this game is good also i did this it's like you you put the game on autopilot yeah i feel like for a review i you want to sort of play on the default sort of settings for a review because this is what the developers with their understanding of how they've made the game have decided is going to be the the base level that most p that's made for most people you know so you want to get a grasp on that what what what are the people who made the game what they think the difficulty is yeah it's a major component of how challenging and enjoyable a game is is like okay what's the difficulty level pitched at you know that there are games that are just unreasonably difficult and like that presents a real challenge for you and you can you can talk about that like conversely there's plenty of games that are way too easy and you just breeze right through them you know again that's something that you can feed back in your review but like yeah to intentionally just put it on the easiest possible difficulty so that you don't have to try it undermines the whole point of the game and then if you're unable to go through certain combat sections you can turn on the option to go invisible when you go prone and you can just crawl through the area and the enemies won't see you because you know unlike the folder which doesn't know how how to like they don't know which way is up these guys don't know which way is down so at what point it's like that Mario thing you know where you get the power up where you're invincible if you die so many times I guess that's curious if you're making a game that has that is so mature in terms of its content that it's clearly only made for adults and then they put in accessibility options for like children and vegetables well I think the accessibility options are like more you know if you have a disability maybe colorblind like I'm cool with that I'm cool with that like as a thing it's just weird well I would argue it's great body like yeah it's really good but it's a really awesome feature but then like holy shit you're you're you're just a normal uh this you you're standard in every single way in terms of uh senses and you choose to add all these things on it's like damn okay I don't know I would expect most of these things in a lego video game and not a last of us video game you know well so that I mean we could almost go into the conversation that got broke with the Dark Souls it's like should it be should there be modes and options to allow even the the you know the worst of players to be able to complete it it's like but the whole point of Dark Souls the well that the experience that is Dark Souls is defeating the challenge they're presenting rather than being like can I skip to the end it's like wow I don't know what the point is at that point yeah I I mean if they want to put it in sure fine but it does have the effect of lowering the prestige of beating it yeah I well isn't it a little bit self-defeating for some games where that's the entire reason the game exists is to defeat that challenge and then you're like I'd like to play a version where there's no challenge you're like oh um right then maybe you just should watch a movie well because of course there are some games where it's like well I just want to know the story and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who've consumed the last of us as a film rather than a game as in like watching their partner play or watching a friend play whatever like because they're like I can tell the gameplay I'm not too bothered by I'd like to you know know the story and so I think it's way more valid for something like this but there are some games where I just don't see the point I just go why why why are you here if that it literally skipped to the end and then put it down it's like what was the point Mario is a good example I'm not in it really for the story so if you don't want to be jumping around what what's the point you know anyway back yeah great to continue I mean in usual fashion we will be going because there are several things we still haven't addressed even with the first e-fap on this game so Cosmo can provide us the vehicle in which to tangent thank you very much what's funny is that we haven't even really like shot on him there we were just discussing the game it's not gameplay the safes are honestly the most irritating things in the game the combinations are always located in the most irritating things in the game I'd say that's probably the dodge button um and how are the safes irritating like dogs are pretty irritating you explore the world you find the code by like you know doing your exploration thing and then you take it to the safe we'll see you're gonna sit there and try and figure it out or anything well there's two other things you do you could like look it up on on google or you could just simply like go through every number until you hear that click right there's a lot to say about this first of all he's I guess he's complaining in a narrative sense like oh how convenient there's a fucking code next to every single say but mechanically it's it's relatively satisfying for most people I'd say it's like look around for the clues like oh this one says it's this number plus this number go find that number that number okay cool mechanically I don't really have an issue with that I kind of wish they were a bit more complicated and harder to find um yeah but I think it's absolutely ruined by the clicking thing I think the clicking thing is way too easy to use I it's funny I need to get the clip but in my stream someone says I can do that and I'm like nah like I'm there's no way that they would let me unlock the safe by using click sounds without it taking fucking ages like that's going to be the trade-off that's how you do it as a developer you like want to encourage you to look around but if you really want that pay off guaranteed slow route yeah which funnily enough is kind of how doxels does it as a core you can kill loads of trash mobs and get higher levels to take on bosses easier or you can try and you know go in with low health low damage and stuff it's um it's something I just think works relatively well uh balance wise but no I the first time I tried it I was like wait a minute this is like super easy that I just did it for the rest of the game I didn't even need to find the codes anymore you know like I just preferred how the last was one did it where you actually had to have Joel find the code to uh unlock the safe because at least then it's like well no matter how many times you play the game like this version of Joel doesn't necessarily have the same knowledge uh that he had when you like like in your previous playthrough right so he always has to find the code whereas in this game you can just skip straight to either like googling the cheats the the the codes online or just hearing the click and I mean I guess it sort of stands to reason technically that characters that have listen mode abilities could could do this but um still a bit of a of a funny mechanic nonetheless it's weird because in a game like this yeah because I just googled last of us two states save code combinations and here they just they're all just right here I'm thinking a lot of games randomize it on a playthrough so the guides are here's how you get the code to put in not you know year is the code just put this number the last of us one accounts for this your character cannot open the safe until they have viewed the code yeah that's the better way to do it and you might be like well yeah but then you can't do it the listening way and I'm like I don't think the listening way is a good thing I think it makes it way too easy I'm not sure how I would fix it to maintain it other than making it a really slow process but even then I'm like I don't know I don't know like we're not safe crackers this seems like really I think it diminishes it a little bit not to mention that like it just it slows down the pace of the game a lot more when you have to input the codes yourself rather than you find the code Joel goes up to the the safe or whatever and he you press triangle and he just goes through the animation it's like I do actually want to be an advocate for the whole um if you look it up on google I do think that's outside of the games prerogative at that point sure there's a lot of things that can be ruined in a game by looking it up on google sort of thing in terms of like puzzles and stuff but it's not like you say like it's easily overcome just by randomizing the code and it's like okay we could still use the clicker method it'll take a while or yeah every yeah every playthrough just randomizes the code um I I think that adds a lot because I I just think that's one of those things that's so obvious in terms of you know people will look it up there's no like even if you look up things like oh how many enemies are in this location and stuff like that you still have to go through the actual doing part of it whereas with this this is this is both the knowledge and the execution right here with just looking up the code and it's it's it takes so little effort to just say oh this they're all randomized every playthrough and you have to actually do thing so this would be another example of a mechanical downgrade I would argue from the first game even though arguably it's more complex I'd be like yeah I think you've achieved less by doing more I I suppose that's how you put that it's technically more immersive it's like um imagine if you were playing a video game where to reload um and still have like the same amount of ammunition right so uh you shoot a like one bullet out of your gun and then you eject the clip and it's like you had 14 bullets left yeah magazine you lose why was left in it basically yeah where it's like okay what if we made it at like a mini game where you have to basically put each individual bullet in your magazine it's like well that's more realistic but that makes for a less like fun game it slows down the pacing tremendously yeah I feel like if you're doing that then the whole game is probably going to reflect it as in this very grounded game it would have been good to find like that that could be a good upgrade to the weapons as you find more magazines sure so you can do that and it also changes the dynamic and balancing on weapons that are like shotguns that are tube fed or weapons that are magazine fed where if you can individually load rounds into weapons then like well that has some gameplay impact on it you know maybe sure if you have a magazine for a gun being able to pop off 15 rounds before you have to reload or at once is like that's a really big deal but if that's the only magazine you have then maybe I prefer to have a weapon where it holds less per you know internal magazine but I have to load the rounds individually you know that's that would be one of those kinds of things that you well it's also yeah no and it's also like in combat obviously the the temptation is like you fire off a few rounds you've still got say three quarters in your magazine but if there's a break in the action you tend to just reload anyway because you never know when you're going to need a full mag and you know you can do it in the context of a normal game because it'll just use however many bullets are needed to fill it up but if we have this new system that you're talking about you'd have to really think carefully like oh well do I want to eject a magazine that's still got half the rounds left in it or do I want to keep them because that's more like you know I'll be wasting ammo with an outcase there could also be like saying mechanic to it where you only have one magazine at the beginning of the game and you will have to like in the middle of a gunfight you have like bullets in your pocket and you will have to manually put uh bullets in like back in the magazine to reload it or something like that could be that could add an element of suspense to it where it's like okay how much time are you willing to risk staying in cover and just loading bullets into your magazine before you're ready to fire again it could be an interesting mechanic I'm just saying like in a game like this would we really want to uh would we be really willing to sacrifice pacing for more realism there I mean I think this would be the game where you'd want to do that sure I mean especially if you have a choice between the two if the like before you leave on a mission if they say all right you know you can't go out there with nothing you know we've got this and we've got this and there are two different things like do you want this do you want this tube fed shotgun or do you want this handgun with one magazine or something like that you know we can only spare so much for all of our guys you know you get to you know which do you feel more comfortable taking out there with you and that could be an option it would also encourage you to play at a different time if you wanted to play through again and have the different gun which would dramatically change how perhaps your combat works um and the in these concepts can be executed really well yeah I mean the the general adds to the survival aspect I think if we're loading individual bullets but this game has a long way to go I'd say if if we added that and then oh yeah that's the least of its problem I mean yeah the the the whole inventory management in this game is kind of shitty because you can't tailor your inventory to to you know take the things that are important to you like you've got you've got categories of things and you can only carry a set amount of that and you can't like reweight it in certain ways like maybe I want to carry more medical supplies but I don't care about like carrying junk that I can use to like upgrade my weapons and so I can tailor my load out that way it's just like it's all predetermined yeah so there isn't really an inventory management aspect to it well you had I mean we keep going back to stuff like Resident Evil 4 where you this is your inventory space and this is all that you have and if you find a new thing and if you're full you have to swap out an old thing for the new thing which do you need if you're doing really well and you never get hurt do you need as many much medical stuff no then you could chuck it for more ammo or something like that yeah the the original Resident Evil even figured this out give a person limited inventory space they can put whatever they want in that space it's up to them and they can just tailor it based on how they like to play great to address someone in chat said you're taking it way too far this wasn't his point we're not responding to his point yeah I don't give a shit about what Cosmos is saying yeah we're just going off at attention we're talking about video games and mechanics and um if you want to see the rest of his video go watch his video I guess like if you want to see us talk about um if you're here for him not us yeah like it's totally up to you podcast but uh this is this is EFAP my good man well it's nice to be able to talk about games yeah we have this is the thing the tangents should probably be pretty pretty long for this one because we don't we don't we don't often talk about games games don't come up as much as movies in uh in all EFAP yeah there's also um the fact that like this is the same game where it says yeah just stick a rag inside a a water bottle and then tape it to the end of a pistol and it works as a silencer like no oh we had a whole shiv scissors tangent on our the other day that's what I mean though with the with the refilling your magazine busy I'd be like we gotta fix loads of other stuff at that point if we want to go grounded and realistic we have to yeah this is stuff that you'd put in if you really really cared about depth of mechanics with this game just didn't how about the fact that uh in order to stop bleeding out from getting hit by an arrow you pull the arrow out which is not how that works I'm gonna do that if you get a puncture wound like that that's the last thing you want to do it was only when he got brought off the rebar at the uh in the first game he gets impaled on rebar it's only when he gets pulled off the rebar where he's like fuck I'm bleeding out you know well think about it you have um the climax of this game a huge element that's important to understanding the stakes is that she was stabbed by that portion of tree and it's like you have a sequence where I'm shot through the shoulder with an arrow and it doesn't mean shit like it's so confusing like the mechanics fight yeah the storyline you you just make it a balance of you can choose to pull the arrow out whenever you want so you have to choose between two states of do you want to keep the arrow in for now which will have a negative impact on actions that you take it will increase the the the clambering time or your climb speed or your move speed it'll have just a passive negative effect if you keep it in and then afterwards when it's safe you can remove it but it takes extra medical supplies from you in order to get back to your you know your normal state um I think that would be really interesting and you could choose between when you go from one to the other whenever you want but if you don't have the medical supplies then you're just gonna have to walk around with that arrow sticking in you until you find or craft the material you need to you know staunch bleeding or make a bandage or something like that so if you're having a bad play through maybe maybe you play with 10 minutes where you've got an arrow sticking in you because you can't pull it out yet and of course just lol it's gone now it makes me think about the malaria mechanic from far cry 2 it's like when you take mechanics to a certain degree with players like nah I don't like this no it's annoying it's annoying like if you had a blood amount in the game like however many pints and once you go below a certain amount from different wounds you just start to you get sluggish and then you fall over and if it goes sit and below you you get knocked out for an hour or some shit you like I don't I don't want to like I get it but like in the same way that a lot of people don't like eating and sleeping mechanics in some games just like I don't want to I don't have to eat yeah um there's an aspect to with games where you kind of you go in and you you know what you're getting into nobody buys when people to and there's an element of like when you buy into a survival game and you know it's a survival game you can expect those elements to be there you know what you're getting into but to have elements like that almost out of place in other games can seem really people would be far quicker to point those out where they don't feel like they belong when you buy daisy or seven days to die or escape from Tarkov you can expect certain aspects of it to be there where they belong but if they were to randomly pop up in like doom or something call of duty you'd be like what why is this here what what is this game trying to be some overlap is good between genres some not maybe so much I guess it for me it comes down to like okay does it present a challenge that's rewarding to overcome you know the yeah managing this stuff or does it just become a fucking drag that really kind of annoys me after like you know the first hour and it just this thing that never goes away we're like yeah you know you're enjoying a game so reloading those bullets personally into the into the magazine you can have a lot of those being like this really made me appreciate how important each of my bullets are and it raised the stakes significantly while someone else is like it's boring as fuck let me give get my gun yeah and and a lot of it is execution in terms of you know the buttons that you use and how you actually do it which is might be an issue on like a controller where you have very limited buttons in like in daisy if you want to reload a magazine you equip the magazine you put the amp you put the magazine in your hands and you hold r if you have bullets to load the bullets in and it's not a particular it's not complicated fairly simple but you know if you've only got one magazine but you've got spare bullets those bullets in the magazine become pretty valuable i just read james ball's comment is full out new vegan is hot a hardcore mode is perfect it's like new vegan i haven't actually played the hardcore mode uh but i gotta gonna top up my drinks i'll be right i will say that one of the new mechanics that they introduced in this game for gunfights i did like and it was the fact that when you get shot and you get knocked on your ass in the first game you can't shoot from that position but in the second game you can and i kind of liked that aspect it was like i can actually defend myself from this position it's if i got shot and i got knocked on my ass i'd probably be uh desperately shooting while i was uh still lying down on my back so i kind of think you do see in i guess like action movies or whatever a character gets injured they get knocked down one of their enemies is closing in on them they draw a pistol or whatever and gun them down from from that prone position so yeah it makes sense the game has a real tendency of hitting you just as you're about to pull the trigger i don't know why but it's like you're aiming at someone and just when you got a good head shot lined up it'll you'll get hit from something even times we are like i'm pretty sure i pulled the trigger why are they not dead even though i'm on the floor i'm pretty sure i find my god yeah yeah i honestly i would say that if the game was more like just have the last of us basic combat like hand to hand combat and shooting mechanics um then allow last of us to like prone shooting while on your back that kind of thing and then i'd say like i liked the upgraded melee weapon buffs in this game a lot more too um and have that and that's basically about as good as combat can get in the last of us but there's too many negative i would say like downgrades to the the gameplay that it doesn't really make it ultimately better than the first game when it comes to that all right i remember one of my fond video game memories was when i was years ago i was playing fallout new vegas on my xbox because that's what i was using at the time playing fallout three really just lost myself in that game so great so immersive especially the subways and everything and one of my first playthroughs i i i didn't have a shotgun and then i found my first shotgun and it was really beat up like the durability on it was really really low well it was barely hanging in there i knew i didn't have many shots with it till it broke and man i saved that shotgun and saved using that until i was you know desperate or when there was a guy right on me or a big target that was up close i was thinking it's just little stuff like that sticks with you and i'm thinking if only if only people knew how to do mechanics like that in a way that was consistent and enjoyable to where you could have weapon degradation and stuff that really kind of just gave people those awesome memories that they could look back and say man that combat shotgun that one time man it was oh i i it really made me not want to abuse it i really treated it with a lot of value and care but new it didn't have much left in it hmm hmm hmm located in the room right next to them so really not that hard to find and if they're not hard to find then just let me open the treasure chest without having to unlock it this mechanic exists to waste my time and make me feel like i earned the loot i'm mostly on his side i would just say that you know if you find the note that says i still find it dumb that these notes exist but it's like hey honey if you want to get into the safe it's our anniversary but obviously negative 30 years it's like oh i gotta figure something out okay my brain has something to do oh i'll go to the calendar oh my good it's it's circled on the 23rd you know so it's it's just one of those little things where it's very simple but it's it it makes people feel satisfying when they people feel like a puzzle solver people feel smart when they do stuff like that because it's just it feels intuitive even though it's contrived that it's in the game like that it's intuitive and normal people can figure that out and it makes them feel good that's what i mean like all right i'm playing the game i'm doing narratively i agree mechanically i think there's it's a good start and that's the problem with a lot of the mechanics in the last of us like oh this is good for the year 2000 not bad i don't agree narratively just because if uh if the chest is just unlocked then someone else should have probably already gone through the area and no i don't mean that narratively i mean the the the very fact that people are putting their codes next to their safe narratively like oh oh sure sure i don't believe that is what every but let alone one person doing it which is kind of like why would you do that but fucking like all 50 like really all of you i was known else broken these things open there's there's a cold problem is that i like it mechanically more than i do narratively is what i was saying okay because if i was gonna try to explore the idea of how do you because essentially essentially what safes work as it's it's the you do a tiny quest to get a reward and you can do that in so many ways that don't involve a safe that it could be anything from just going slightly off the beaten path to find something or following the clues on a note that you find or i just feel like they just went with the first idea that they had and it's kind of a shame especially because i had seven years to make the game you started the fire how about that oh no the fire that burned the world in Joel man or an asshole behind it all it really is the most shallow type of puzzle that this game has to offer and i am saying puzzle very loosely the other kind of puzzles in this game usually revolve around ropes last of us one had a dozen ladder puzzles and this one decided to shake things up yeah again i probably agree with him like even in the first game those ladder puzzles it's like you got to take it from one place and then put it over here it's like whoa i am engaged i like to on a technical level i like the physics that they obviously put into the ropes like the way they they move you know the way they hang you can use them in so many different ways it's kind of cool to look at it just yeah there's a little bit of a mechanic it's kind of frustrating they're a little flimpy but i would say overall they did a good job making rope physics yeah the animation for the rope physics was like that's a it's a technical marvel um even though it's like i would say it's a neat pick at best it's repetitive you do it a lot you're like okay well every time you see a rope you're like okay sorry ladders ropes are my new best friends but ropes aren't as prevalent as the ladders and they aren't really as annoying mostly because the ropes are used differently every time you can get kind of creative with how you use them and the rope physics kind of stopped the puzzles from being annoying now while the puzzles aren't really a deal breaker for me the one thing that got really annoying was the level design this game has much bigger environments than the first game and honestly it's kind of overwhelming a lot of the time there are a lot of situations where you'll get disoriented and lost and have no idea where to go i mean i won't agree with that but i'd be like surely that's down to the person it's just your perception yeah there's whether or not you get lost at all and then there's whether or not you like being lost and how long do you enjoy being lost it is so weird looking at that pregnant chick with a gun but there is a sometimes i have i have come across people who ask me for advice and games and they say this uh and they'll say i feel lost and i kind of tell them like enjoy that feeling that feeling you have right now of being overwhelmed by mechanics of being lost in a world legitimately try and cherish that because it will go away and you will never get it back once you learn the scale of the world it all gets so smaller once you learn all the mechanics everything feels like a game so some people really enjoy the sense of being lost and some people really really hate it is this something i mean is this something that's changed like as the years have gone by with people's attitude towards games it's almost like the game designers feel like they have to always give people um you know a direction to the next waypoint or the next mission or whatever because if they have to think for too long they'll just get like disengaged from the game and give up that seems to be the mentality a lot of the time i always find like now the games just kind of hold my hand and tell me where i need to go at all good balance between holding hand and also not making it unclear as to how to yeah that's the balance that's been trying to be stricken for ages and most people who've been playing games for a fucking ages feel that games have gotten way worse in that regard in terms of like you don't find out yourself you have to be told with a girl yeah it just it used to be that you could invest more time in a game and yeah it would take time sometimes to figure out where you needed to go next but that was part of the enjoyment and i was like someone highlighted there's there's lost and then there's confused about how to progress yeah um i would definitely agree that's a that's a balance that has to be struck you want people to be only confused briefly at the beginning until they can get all the clues intuitively from their environment as to what to do um and if you don't have that right balance then i think probably my biggest pet peeve in games is when i don't know where to go and i'm just wondering around like i don't even know what i'm supposed to do what am i supposed to do what's the win state here i don't even know what i'm supposed to actually do i mean this game mostly sorts you out in terms of once you hit a certain time it'll give you a clue it'll just be like press l3 and you'll tell you where to go the one time that was funny for me was i spent too long you know quote unquote too long searching an area and it was like press l3 for clue where to go and i pressed it just out of curiosity and it just pointed to like the only giant way like if you think about it there's just one opening you can go and it was just like this is probably it that'd like wow thank you game i guess i'll that was another thing for me throughout the first and second game was just figuring out where the actual way is first and then checking everywhere first after that you know because that's the one place i don't want to go and this game james more tried to to warn me during the stream but he was like there's a red door if you walk through the red door it'll make it so you can't check anything in the hotel after you've done that and i was just like oh hopefully i'll be okay and um i just made it in terms of searching for stuff but man is it annoying when you've got three rooms to check and one of them is a door that's a jar and the rest are fine and it's like oh that could be a cutscene door don't check that one because otherwise you'll lose everything that you could have gotten had you searched everywhere else first yeah invisible points of no return of shit if you make games don't do those ever i hate them and dead space was always the example i go to of like dead space protects me from them because you press the the waypoint thing and it's like this is the way and like cool i'll search everything else first it makes sense in universe it looks nifty yeah it does look cool people would prefer a slightly immersion breaking are you sure you want to proceed yes or no then oh they decided to do it and then now they can't go back and check all those other rooms they haven't because they chose to look in the wrong door or even in last of his fashion you woke up to the door and it's like hold down square to enter through door and you're like oh shit okay this is probably a cutscene one i'll back up yeah there was like that one cutscene door that you went through mauler and you were like oh no please please please please let me go back and then you went back and sure enough you would have missed a couple revolver bullets and and some supplies some gears it's like uh yeah thank god that one was one that you could still go back through you don't get that look sometimes sometimes the game's like nope you're like oh the most part they try to block off areas that you can't traverse with like vines and shit but it's still really hard to tell where the game wants you to go and yeah there were several points where i was like i guess i can't go this way i guess i can't i can't do this and then sometimes yeah i was surprised oh i can do this wow i was like i didn't think so game good for you i i think that's part of the folly of making a game in this setting um because if you're if you're in a post apocalyptic world getting around should be really easy because buildings have clearly marked exits it's very open you could if you need to break glass and move pretty you pretty much go wherever you want in the real world um so being able to having feeling like your bottleneck into going a certain direction kind of sucks you're like uh i feel like if this was actually where you said we were i could i have 30 different ways 30 different routes that i could take to where i need to go yeah oh wow i guess we're going up the escalator because we gotta um there was i think it was the near the end of the game in sound of avra where um i was like i saw a staircase and i was like i could prone underneath that and get to the staircase but let me guess it's blocked and it's like no that's how you do it and i was like good job game you did it because there's just too many fucking games where there's a clear way for you to get to where you want to go and it's just like no no no no yes you can turn on a waypoint setting that'll tell you where to go but that's not really an excuse if the developers added that setting knowing that you're going to get lost sometimes then it's on them to just make the layout of these areas less confusing i would like to hear your argument for how they would do that exactly like just suggestions because it is gonna like i'm curious how far you would go before you would probably say like okay this is breaking the mission now i mean if most of a lot of this game you play with a companion if the companion can set it up for you to finish yourself if you are in a you go into an old derelict hotel and they say well i guess to get to the waterfront i guess we got to go down a floor and that's all they said like they suggested it they didn't tell you how to do that they didn't tell you where to go they were just like yeah let's go to the next floor down and you had to do things like look at the signs look at the direction stuff that's around for guests to follow and stuff of that nature like people would feel good about being able to solve that barely puzzle yeah or just them saying like i think this is the way yeah if you went yeah like if you if you are making progress you can confirm that to the player with the your partner saying yeah i think that we're on the right track i mean i'm trying to be fit of the game i'm pretty sure they do a bit of that right with the they will if you if you're struggling yeah well like when um when you clear out an area full of enemies they're like all right i think that this is clear so that you're no longer on like alert you don't have to be constantly taking cover or being cautious you can just like roam around brilliant now yeah i know set people up to solve problems in an intuitive way it doesn't have to be difficult necessarily it just has to if it just something you know to set people up for success then have them do it i think in every wide open area i got confused at least once i mean but like so i wonder if that's something that maybe they should be present in a game where you're in a cityscape sort of thing running around that it shouldn't be clear as to exactly where you're supposed to go all the time right some degree it should feel they should be aiming to get you to feel like i'm in a city right now i guess the problem here is like level design is really complicated especially when you factor in when you have to art it up and he's being very reductive like i don't know where to go it's like yeah but what if they wanted you to kind of look around first you know what if they wanted you to be a little lost a couple of times one of the complaints for somo was like i as people got lost in the water bits which a couple people complained about i think it's a real thing however part of that was on purpose they wanted to make you like crank the lasophobia be like you're in the middle of the bottom of the ocean you can't quite figure out where you're supposed to go you're in you're a droplet in the universe of of being alone and lost like it's supposed to give you a sense of fear and horror but a lot of players are just like this is annoying where do i go there's like a conflict of ideas i would i would guess and that's the tough part with a lot of gaming it's like that's striking that balance because the player interaction with what you're presenting is just always work out either really stupid or the levels are confusing and since i refuse to accept any of my mistakes i'm gonna go ahead and blame the video game this time now between the exploration there are combat segments and this is where the game really saved itself for me to put it simply murder never felt so good now when i started playing the game i was playing on the medium difficulty because i wanted to beat the game fast and get this review out oh all right well all right then okay i like this the shot he has of himself at that point look he looks so apathetic like come on let's get this over we're gonna get that review to never felt so good and it cuts to him just being totally yeah all right but i got really bored so i turned the difficulty up to the highest setting and it was like night and day before i could just run and gun like i was playing doom and there was no tension whatsoever but the highest difficulty really feels like the true last of us experience ellie dies so fucking fast and ammo is so scarce that you really have to use every tool at your disposal to survive bottles become more valuable as they're more common than ammo and they can net you a kill if you use them right i feel like the ai is retarded when i watch stuff like this see where the arrow is poking out yeah which is something that's something they said that it was supposed to be possible from what i've heard a lot of people have told me about this there was a quote they said like the ai should be able to tell where you fired the arrow from from the the kill i should be able to tell where you shot everything from yeah arrow is like they're not invisible in the air if he looks over he should be able to see her very easily but he won't it'll be like the well it's the aspect of i wasn't referring to him just standing there out in the open going like oh no my dog has been shot fatally by an arrow i guess he should have heard where the arrow came from just from the whiz he should have seen where the arrow is poking out of the dog to know which direction of shot from and once it's and also if you saw your dog get shot you were not standing out in the open like exactly you're like diving for cover and here's the thing even if it was like if he didn't know if he dove for cover like into that the bed of that truck you know or even even if it was to a side of the truck that you could still see at least he's diving to cover he like if he doesn't know where it's from at least he's taken his chances with going for cover somewhat yeah you'd think he might be looking around the other side of the car to be like it couldn't have been shot from here so i might be safe here but he'd be panickingly looking around all over the place and calling out instead of going yeah what oh god oh no it's not just the whole skyrim huh must have been the wind when you have an arrow sticking out of your ear the game constantly forgets it's been 25 years since the apocalypse happened everybody at this point should be pretty seasoned so the fact that he's gormlessly walking around like oh someone killed my dog it's like dude how'd you make it someone said the ai isn't retarded the difficulty is mollusher should have tried the hardest one if i put it on the penultimate difficulty it shouldn't be this shit okay i'm more i'm more focused on the fact that the guy apparently named his dog jesus because she kills his dog and he goes oh jesus oh no jesus love i shout out the names of their oh i just i just love the idea that they were like okay we'll make the ai functional on um literally survivor difficulty the one we tell people only season like veterans of the game should be playing on the rest of the difficulty they'll just be retarded it's fine yeah they're they're dumb they're just kill me bait i think this is an absolute failure of the game to watch this clip and see how this this ai reacts to basically his buddy getting shot dead and he's just standing there like this surely won't happen to me in just a moment i've got so many i'm sure they just really had it out for this dog so many clips to use from my stream of the ai being fucking retarded the game seriously turns into metal gear solid on this difficulty i'm one of the few people who like when stealth is done well in video games and the stealth in this game i'm one of the few people who like no you can't well in video games who the fuck doesn't like what a statement yeah i would i would like to meet the people who hate it when stealth is done well as he's showing this clip and like really frustrated crap like stop raising it last most of us is bare bones stealth like when you compare it the like splinter cell of the four day sex it's so bare bones i have to admit that as a as a person that loves the um uh the last of us stealth is not very good i i i enjoy playing the multiplayer because multiplayer is kind of i i like the multiplayer in the first game but like the fact that you can't even hide bodies is kind of like yeah this is not like i can't i can't increase my chances of not being detected like this is this is the advantage of in the last game where you have fought a lot of you know clicker enemies that are really very rudimentary in terms of their intelligence very dumb should be super easy to program you'd think where you don't have to worry about a lot of the you know intuitive aspects of what a human enemy would think and do so you had a huge advantage because of those enemies so if you're going to swap over to mostly not those enemies in a lot of these sections you are making it more difficult for yourself yeah i like to do that narratively but canically can you handle that yeah like the fact that i have to um basically drag an enemy over to where i want to hide their body before i kill them before i stealth kill them rather than i like giving me the option to do that afterwards like i can and hit man it's just like uh stealth is not very easy in this game yeah like metal gear solid figured this stuff out like you know and i do that like 20 years ago i genuinely like him in this call it'd be like what is it about this game stealth that really made you think like yes they've nailed it is it the fact that when you're in cover you are in cover is that is that the standard now the fact that uh when you shoot somebody with a silent weapon nobody heard it is yes that which isn't good by the way just fyi if you have a person right next to another person you get shot but it bugged me in the first game but i feel like it's cranked in this one where you grab someone to start strangling them about a meter away from another person they're just like it's like the noises of grabbing someone's jacket should be enough for you to go wait what what is that well i think i think here's here's a great example right so like in in thief 2 there are different surface types and depending on what surface type you're walking on you will make more or less noise i don't think the last of us 2 has that and the thief 2 is 20 years old you know what mate if i can that sequel it is but it if it's not present beyond the first game where in when you the david boss fight you can walk on the broken glass and stuff that'll set him off yeah it's like the first one tried it a little bit but this game was like yeah whatever yeah when i was playing this game i wondered if stepping on glass would do anything and i'm pretty sure didn't do anything like honestly in terms of game mechanics the stealth in the last of us 2 i'd be like it's like what are we looking at here like pretty low on the on the scale of this is like the minimum right this is like the minimum functionality yeah because and and i don't it's frustrating when people like this is like pinnacle stealth action yeah it's low it's calm and most yeah most most of the challenge came in from like the shitty controls like the character's hand there's oh dude i agree yeah like you back up against walls that you don't want to and like yeah it's just that's the the difficulty it's not that the ai is good or anything i don't have a stealth in the uncharted games is better i think the stealth in the uncharted games might be better just for the fact that you have a lot more verticality to work with it's annoying enough because this i think is but both the sign of the bad stealth i'm bad ai but say there were two people in front of ellie right now you you shoot one with an hour and kill the other one with a melee weapon and then someone is three meters away and sees it you run behind the the van right next to you car sorry and um three four five seconds that other ai is like where'd you go it's like you should know that i'm here you saw me go behind you like watched me this is a second ago like where do you think i am do you think i can teleport and if you're really lucky you'll have the ai check behind it first and then go whoa they must have disappeared do you remember splinter cell conviction when that came out one of the big advertising points is that they had the last known position like it was basically an outline of you which was the last time you were seen by an enemy it would create like a ghost image of yourself and that's where enemies so to tell you this is where enemies kind of think you are um and it worked really well it was super simple it was really fun to play around with and this game is well all we're gonna be doing is talking about games that do stealth better than this it's funny because splinter cell conviction is like watered down splinter cell and it's still more mechanically interesting yeah it plays really well because i remember playing blacklist i really like blacklist me too i love blacklist and it's just the whole idea of um would drop you into a place you can learn a bunch of things by you know you have a bunch of different gadgets and weapons you can use you have a lot of different options you can hide people like the the fact that you can't even hide the the people that you take out is is is insane to me it's only ever free one even you know again so mechanically limited that when i kill a person i'm like well if i hang around and aim at their body once the new person comes in they'll spot it and they'll be stationary for a while so i should get an easy shot again just pile up the bodies i guess it's just um it's the limiting of the options right the the whole idea of i like i so fix that but the whole idea of hiding the people you take out is that it means that you can control whether or not you're gonna be detected in this game you can't like once you kill somebody it's like oh this area now as soon as an enemy walks through it's gonna be an instant alert zone that's great i mean if you're just if you're designing this all you have to ask yourself is if that was me what would i do yeah right exactly what would i do if i yeah because i sure as hell wouldn't do the stuff the ai in this game do yeah and that's that's the real big thing man the ai are really fucking dumb the only thing that i really like about the ai regarding the self is the fact that the dogs are able to track your scent no we gotta talk about this it claims that you can get the dogs off your scent there's no fucking way like once they pick you up that's it your only option is to fucking kill them can we like dogs are a terrible idea uh in stealth games because they just smell you they smell you yeah let's go mechanical ignore all the labels of the functionality or the species whatever it is an entity that automatically discovers you and will go toward you yeah that is annoying annoying i mean i i don't know i personally like the the uh the added threat that they um that they provided to the the whole i have to be care of this dog before i i can uh yeah but that's i feel like that's bad that the dog is the first one you have to take out every time it's like wow this is not very deep at all i have to kill the dog first yeah i think you can employ that will like you know i smart them it's like they're there you have to kill them in order to progress because they're going to find you otherwise for clarification that's bullshit said you can get them off your scent entirely if you throw like a bottle or whatever i don't think that that part is good i think it's dumb i think i think that's really stupid yeah i i would see why a dog if it was tracking a scent would shift its priority to a loud noise that just occurred close to it surely it shouldn't work forever like that should only distract it for a little bit yeah it's a temporary thing um but also if you want to have a dog as a more persistent threat than a human in some ways just have it if it's going to track you around have it do it really slowly so that you know you're kind of on a time limit where the dog will eventually catch up to you but it's not like i have to kill the dog first it's you want to i guess dogs is a way to encourage the player to stay mobile you can't just come behind this cupboard forever that's kind of what they want to do here but for me it's like a more fundamental thing the whole idea of like stealth is you know you have a good idea of what human beings can see and hear so you have a pretty reasonable idea of what you can or can't do but once it's a dog it changes everything because it's it's all it's now you have to control scent smell in a video game something that you can't track and that you can't really tangibly understand and then ping it gets you and then it's like oh i guess it's got me now it's almost arbitrary when you know when the dog's going to pick up your scent there's nothing you can do well no listen mode actually shows your scent trail yeah but that doesn't what does that you see what i mean like the fact that the fact that i need listen mode to know what the dog can see where yeah i was gonna say how does that even reason to do what they can see and smell you know what i mean like even if yeah but even if you can see your scent trail i don't think there's nothing you can do to disrupt that trail is there no no you can't because i think by the way and i talked about like another example yet again of paying lip service to some level of depth what you'll have is you introduce that mechanic and then the reviewers will do it all for you they'll be like you've got an entity you've got a mechanic now that involves scent is in the game there's several reviewers who keep talking about it as like this this thing that's more than what it is which is just it just auto tracks that's all that is yeah it's just an enemy that can see you through walls and pursues you through walls and that's what it really is then they'll be like and it adds a whole layer to the gameplay because you can't just hunker down they're gonna come for you have to keep on the move you have in the same way that like what the spitter was to left for dead but that's not terrible like that it's like you can't camp anymore because it'll drop you know floor lava temporarily dogs dogs remind me of um in halo 4 when they introduced that flying enemy that does shields and throws grenades back at you and revives dead enemies it's like oh so i have to kill that one first yeah it's it's automatically less interesting than like what the covenant was where you had options sorry well we have this uh fringy when we play destiny two together yeah we had there were enemies that would just produce shields for other enemies so it was it was to the point of oh see now you have to do this but it's like that's the point now you have to kill those enemies first it's it's not a choice i'm not making a choice you're just saying that now i have to kill this other enemy first yeah it should be the whole idea that um that if you are designing a group of enemies um it's better if you have options for what you think you want to do first um and the problem with dogs just like the problem with the watches or whatever they were called in halo 4 is that there is no choice that if you don't take the dog out first you are playing sub optimally yeah it's like it's never not the correct option which is virtually indistinguishable from you have to do this i'm someone mentioned they want a clarification it can't see you through walls it follows your trail it's like functionally no different yeah yes that's yeah it's it's functionally identical to something that slowly tracks you through walls they just they the in universe explanation is that they're using your scent there is there is no like actual this is what i mean if you want to explore scent and smells it's like okay so you got to get a whole bunch more mechanics and options and they can't just go yeah they just find you that's how it works like what if there was an alcohol maybe to to you know subdue your sense like if you could use alcohol and rub it all over you so i get the dog off of your trail that might be cool or mud or something like yeah go in there i think so someone said it doesn't it doesn't be lying towards you though it's like so when you're tracking something you don't make a be lying towards it if there are obstacles in the way you go around the obstacles just like dog would yeah dogs won't go through walls yeah um we are amazing but we cannot traverse through walls like someone said it smells so bad you could hear it through listen mode um i don't honestly i don't get that why is it that you see the old trail of smells through listen mode i like how listen yeah listen mode helps you detect your scent in the air i don't get that you know if if they wanted to mix it up then have visual clues as to what way the wind was blowing yeah but that you see what i mean though it's like were these conversations had like remember how they did that shit in call of duty four that came out like 37 years ago or whatever like we're not introducing new mechanics to video games here no we're just we could just reference things that have already been done years ago yeah borrowing from the best really at this point yeah do the my favorite quote you guys will see this in the eventual video that comes out there's a reviewer there's a listing like the awesome things you could do one of them is you could shoot rage you could use raged combat oh yeah that's cool yeah that's a revolutionary ever done that before who'd a thunk what don't they think of next oh my god i don't know looks like i don't have to hit them with a club whoa is this magic the future of gaming i don't never catch on ranged combat will never catch on in video games mark my words see i suppose that's our tangent odd the stealth of this game is it's pretty mere honestly go go play hitman or something i don't know see yeah actually we're on a pause point give me like two minutes and i'll be right back yes man talk about stealth talk about all the games that did stealth better than this years ago oh boy day you said yeah the problem is like constantly talk about it so people get tired of it freaking it up but yeah i just i get frustrated because of deus actually got all these options you've got all these different abilities that you can use well a lot of reviews mention the silenced pistols like this big deal it's like you can shoot people with a silenced gun in the last of us now and you're like oh my god i guess it's just like okay so in the newer deus x games what are you what are your strictly non-lethal silenced stealth options you have the tranquilizer gun you have the stun gun which both have very different range you have your uh you know like concealed takedowns you have the uh you have the um tesla coil i think it's cool where you can like shoot uh oh what i felt i felt like watching the soprano's finale there just like ended abruptly yeah i thought we've lost him i said yeah he'll be back it's okay it's gonna just disappear just think press press have for for ringing chat he's gone he's gone don't need no one's ever really gone joel is the fucking worst from what i'm gathering in these memes terrible terrible how how joel drinks milk that's pretty ironic you've had podcast talk is killing it tonight it's funny because these are all memes from the previous ifa like technically this is where they're coming from um maybe cosmodault will show joel uh you could you could you could definitely combine the memes if he does at that point which by the way i want to mention his video so far is probably the best one i've seen from him it's not very good but you know it's not it's not the highest of bars so good job it's talking about gameplay a lot of it's just kind of relating to his experience it's just like okay pretty accurately all right good job i think it's gonna be a trip somebody gets to the story i think that's where it's gonna fall apart i've seen yeah that's yeah maybe yeah probably probably definitely who knows when wringle shall return i suppose we shall carry on bringing yeah he um he abandoned us suddenly oh i was i was gonna tell him that uh yesterday on our e-fap uh ketchup stream i was saying that if i was if i'm gonna play a game that i have that i haven't finished it would be deus ex mankind divided oh save it you'll be back you'd enjoy that good oh yay word yeah because i liked human revolution so much and it was so fun to do a no kill playthrough i enjoyed it so much well basically uh mankind divided is it oh yeah oh i was saying uh for a minute there you went the way of mawler's first pistol from his uh last one playthrough but talk about noise because it talk about noise because in chat it's like yeah why couldn't why couldn't it be low craft costs to make something that is just it just makes noise you throw it and i would distract the shit out of a dog like even that just one step above well mawler we're talking about other games that do stealth better fucking far cry has a throw rock button it's like where whenever you are yeah you just throw a rock on the ground because there's always a rock on the ground you just throw rocks to make distractions fuck far cry did stealth way better than the last of us did which is funny when far cry stealth is still pretty minimal but it's just like functional and it's fun this thing it doesn't have to be complex just make it consistent and functional and that's the thing i think that last of us two fails on all those regards is it's not complex it's not consistent and it regularly rewards you for doing stupid shit uh it's uh yeah but but it gets high praise honestly high praise from a lot of people this stealth which blows my mind good the enemy ai makes things super unpredictable too sometimes an enemy will cry out if you jump at them with an axe and sometimes they don't okay so i would cry out if i attack an axe i have so much to say about um let's take so let's going forward i want it to be said that a lot of inconsistent bad mechanics can be hand waved away by it keeps you on your toes you're always guessing what'll happen next we throw that one out i think that if you want to praise something but what's what's the comparison is easy i suppose like um i hate keep i don't want to keep going back to dark souls any game does this a boss that has one of like 15 moves and it could use it could go 1 13 2 13 again 4 4 4 3 5 17 18 6 it's going all over the place you'd be like keeps you on your toes you don't exactly what move it's going to use next versus oh the boss oh it fell through the ground oh i win well that kept me on my toes what i would do if i were trying to go for like a an effect similar to this would be occasionally enemies will actually fire their gun as they go down as you know some people might do when they they get hit they like shoot their gun a few times it's sort of like a like a flare like a like a noise flare of sorts i mean well so he's like when he says they're unpredictable and his example is sometimes when you come at them with a weapon they'll say like oh god oh they won't to me that's like that doesn't change anything mechanically right it's just whether or not they say a thing so i wonder if he's got more examples i guess you may do the exact same route the exact same way but sometimes the ai is just going to do something completely different and that's kind of cool so there's there's unpredictability you unpredictability is good in some aspects but you can have unpredictability to a fault as well yeah this one's complicated because a lot of people like approaching a stealth mission when understanding every variable like so these people are heading this way these people are heading this way if i activate this put this there and if you have all of the enemies they will move one of four directions and this is the thing i'm not actually saying this is a bad element of the last was two right now i'm just saying they offer two different experiences but that's not i'd be like there are way more problems with this ai and and complementing it for having an ai that sometimes it walks down this street but sometimes it walks down half the street and then turns back i'd be like oh i mean yeah i don't understand why we're praising that again it doesn't seem pretty basic to me yeah the balance between intuitive gameplay that can be learned and mastered to give a sense of progression and understanding is always balanced with you know is it too repetitious or when does randomness become unfun and unsatisfying to encounter i mean does it really like surprise you guys that cosmonaut variety hour the guy who will say in one video that it really matters for a comic book adaptation to faithfully adapt the source material in one video and then in the next say that it doesn't matter if they do that is praising a game for its inconsistent ai you've uh in fairness you've made him sound a lot better than it was that was the same video he said those two statements oh wait seriously that's what's so shocking about it oh holy shit well never mind then yeah in finesse a really long video it's like 40 minutes you know super super long but uh yeah it's from the same video oh 40 minutes that's it yeah it's one of them real long videos oh wow uh ain't nobody got time for that well this is what we've discovered about cosmonauts he's incredibly inconsistent uh and that's okay for a lot of people as i i don't think i've got a comment on me but there was the one i showed you guys where it was like um what you've misunderstood about the channel is that it's a variety of viewpoints and that's the point the cosmonaut variety hour and i was just like but it's one dude yeah it's like getting multiple characters sure is it like one dude with multiple personality disorder or something they're actually conflict with each other constantly well i would just like to personally apologize to cosmonaut for misrepresenting what he did in this in the stream very sorry also fringy how you doing there you're right uh that all right yeah internet cut out oh what yeah i love it that cuts out uh this is all mapping terms fault yeah i also wouldn't want to be at the point where we would be praising the ai for being nonsensical so for example it's like sometimes they'll lose sight of you in seconds or sometimes it'll be 10 seconds so i just be like i don't think that's praise worthy but it seems to me that he's just talking about their movements they're not they could do a couple of things which again just like yeah and in stealth games i like to take my time learn what enemies are going to do look for openings and then actually execute a plan that i had in my head based on what i've seen um i think that's so much stuff goes right predictability it gives you some a challenge to overcome the whole idea with the one stealth games is like i think i think stealth games tend to recognize like that a human being who sees you once it's over but they give you that little bit of leniency because it would be annoying yeah well like you should stuff in the real world is fucking hard as shit you should have to go into like a vent and enter a different fucking area of the entire place in order to get that 100 of visibility back but in this game you can literally go out of a fucking chair and they'll be like hmm where did you go and to me that's like super childish stealth it's like wow you're really giving me this okay i guess you're like doesn't he doesn't this enemy like care for his life well like what doesn't he have it he it's nothing better to do if i'm here the big element i would say is the enemy's lack object permanence they're like the second you've gone they're like oh my god he's disappeared oh if i can't see them then i guess they don't exist anymore in fact i don't even know what i'm talking about um i think i think i was so interesting about it but like if you are spotted on one side of a building and then you run through it's like a destroyed building windows are out most of the walls are out you run through three parts of it over to the other side if they see you for certain little moments running through the whole thing it's like you can reasonably deduce they are now on the other side of it not like i have no idea where they are it's no fucking way impossible and even if it's just as rudimentary as like in splinter cell conviction this is the last known place that they saw you this is where they're gonna be focusing their attention you can use this to your advantage go have fun well yeah that's the way that it should work but in this section this particular section that's on screen on his video once you go through a house there's like this well on the other side of the door and i hid behind that well and they lost me and it's insane because they should know where i am i'm behind this well you saw me run through this house there's no other pieces of cover i'm behind the well but they didn't and um i think one of the examples that really threw me off because i didn't even expect it was you know like the typical situation where an ai is hiding behind something poking out and shooting and you're doing the same thing i like reloaded sat behind my like pillar and looked around thought like where am i gonna go who am i gonna kill how am i gonna do it and then uh they were like where'd you go i was like oh wait i thought like we're in a we're in a fight right now i didn't oh fuck he's already lost me so i mean oh i disappeared i'm over here now they really do feel more unique because they act like real people just cut to that in Mahler's playthrough where yara is shooting a million rounds at that one seraphite who's just standing there they act like real people like yeah that's i'm putting that into that that's gotta go there that's my critique yeah from watching this game the people in this are the most unpeopleed people i've ever peopled i got a strong sense they were ai my my image was definitely destroyed i was like these people adopt people we've said it all the time over and over about this game is it feels so so artificial if you shoot from a hiding spot they'll call out the exact place you shot from people climb on the fact that the NPCs shout each other's names but i actually kind of like it yeah it should it gets repetitive they do it to the point where it just becomes a gimmick and you're like yeah you know what they're i think the presence of that person you just shot but and the thing is like they're people that are trying to kill you it's not like you have much of a moral choice in this one why would you feel guilty about it in the first place well this is the thing people argue it's like but it reminds you that these are people it's like well i mean i never forgot yeah that was never the i was never it's not tetris where i'm just like this is clearly a video game nothing else is happening it's like the whole fucking idea with this is to make us feel as though it's real i don't feel bad for killing the person trying to kill me i don't care if their name was amber and she had a pet dog i just i don't care if he's trying to kill me it's done it's settled it's over this game expects you to remember multiple faces and several names several names are enough shitty it's just like in mission impossible fallout just as awful it adds another level of realism and other games have done it before however i think it is really silly that there are only like 10 enemy character models if you're gonna painstakingly name every npc at least that's not painstaking you're just saying all right this npc's name is he almost had it he was almost there he he just needs to connect the last piece why do you think we have individual names for all these npcs but we don't have individual models which do you think is easier just take a random james like not jame name generator you know that's right jame generator i just see you get a voice actor in a room and just like 59 straight you often talk about like returns so like they're like hey if we have a voice act two voice actors one male one female just shout out a bunch of names for one hour just get a whole bunch of names in exchange we get all these reviews saying you know what's amazing they actually call out names when they die how it that's so meaningful and it and then you know it does a lot of people clown on it do you know what i mean it means they're real it means they're people it adds a layer to the realism it's like oh my god i bet you didn't think that that person had a name boo so like i said he was close he was close to cracking the case he was like this is good this is deep although there's lots of things that point to it not being deep at all anyway moving on it's like no still i'd have already pretty said it's amazing moving on ironically they reuse several of the assets like like basically the same 10 assets for a different enemy's faces so they don't individualize what the enemies look like but they will you know give them all names as if that matters like i said i found it funny eventually like i think if they had done it once per hour i might have found it okay i would laugh and yeah the one what's the one i was i shot a guy but someone was like well not that one the one that was like chris and then i killed the guy for the other guy and then he shot chris again and i was like oh god was that two christs oh man that's what they call him a name lots of christs in the world i want to see chris stuckman's review of the last of his part two did he do one he does games i don't i don't know if he's done one but he does game reviews it's you know eventually well not eventually uh occasionally see chris stuckman he hasn't done one yet no but that's definitely that's definitely one to cover i'm almost sitting he would mention that he'd be like the enemies sometimes call out each other's names when you kill them and it really makes you feel you know kind of guilty about the whole experience like shut the fuck up stuckman he's not making any meaningful he's like it's exactly what they wanted you to say the developers i mean they knew this was the quickest way to get you to say something like that about the game i think the last game review that he did was actually for a fallen order so oh my game yeah oh wait no sorry animal crossing he did he did animal crossing that's a chris stuckman game right there well you think he could handle it maybe we'll have to see look different but anyway once a fight does break out the gun play is explosive and heavy hitting the guns really feel good in this game in a life or death gun oh no mauler would you like to talk about the gun play in this would you like to talk about the place so the sounds of them shooting and the clicks and the all the sound design around like i'm mostly okay with that i didn't have any problem with that uh but fuck me like all the aims sway and that the the amount of effort they put into making aim just just awkward and heavy really hard and clumsy like and i know there's an argument for like well it's supposed to feel kind of like that because you're just around you're not like a soldier you're like i'm just like dude i i don't play games to be drunk it's not my goal and that's the thing yeah they pretend like real people can't hold a gun straight like that's just not a thing people can do and we're not talking about average people this is a girl who survived for many many years in a post apocalypse with guns and goes on everyone on patrols and shit like i don't believe that she's got no understanding of how to hold a gun it would stand a reason that after you know some years of experience with a gun that you will you know be able to use a gun better and yet for some reason in the first game it feels like she can handle guns more easily than she can in this game and it's like like even in the first game where you can't upgrade her aim sway like you can with Joel which by the way when you upgrade Joel's aim sway the aim sway is barely even there but when you upgrade aim sway in this game like oh it's still there and it's still noticeable and it will fuck up your headshots and a lot of shots really um someone in chat just said in the clip we just saw he shot at an ai with a rifle that was vaulting over something and the like the game doesn't account for that they don't notice i just want to see it again to make sure break out the gunplay is explosive and heavy hitting the guns really feel good in this game and it felt like i was actually in a life or death gunfight oh shit oh wow why would you use that clip yeah let me see that one more time i was gonna say what exactly happened there explosive and heavy hitting the guns really feel good in this game and it felt like i was actually in a life or death gunfight yeah they oh yeah the bullet doesn't do anything to finish before yeah if it was actually somewhat deep they would have been knocked off their ass in the middle of the animation which some games do this game does not either yeah either commit to having the bullet probably if they're vaulting over something and they get hit like that they're probably just going to go limp but continue forwards yeah and i think that there's a lot of immersion in the subtlety uh sometimes um i went back to play battlefield four not too long ago and it kind of reminded me of how subtle the the feedback is when you kill people in terms of the enemy animations and pop up for like feedback it's not like a call of duty game where you have loud hit markers and loud noises yeah yeah you just see the the enemy just sort of drops and ragdolls a bit just goes down and it's really kind of like oh wow you know that's kind of impactful because it doesn't it's not glorified and made grandiose and amazing it's kind of unceremonious yeah yeah we have to kind of confirm yeah you have to confirm visually that you killed the person because you know they they fell to the ground they stopped moving there's kind of that aspect in it um and i kind of wish more games would do that i know when i played it i i'll reference daisy a bit but in daisy there is that aspect of you know there are no hit markers and there's no points that pop up so if you shoot someone else you have to be like oh did i kill him did i just wound him you like did you know you you double tap the bodies just to make sure before you go over there you know that sort of thing i agree that i actually like that more i think the problem is because the reason why call of duty has those loud hit markers because it gives you a dopamine rush it's yeah feedback of like good job good job good job boom oh you got him good job yeah like i wouldn't want that to be universal like in doom i love the the doom 2016 multiplayer is great and you know it's very obvious when you kill players things pop up big hit markers it's very arcadey and everything but i think there's definitely a place for more subtle feedback in terms of you know you're you're you you confirm that your targets hit and it reacts to something because sometimes you just shoot something in the distance and it just falls over and it's that's it that that's all that there is now it's just you and sometimes i feel like that's the best way to go it that's the most impactful way to do it you could also uh this meme right here that you have up with soma uh giving the last was part two the fat garalt special you could you could put spec ops the line over that too i also i mean part of it we talk about a lot part of it is these games uh provide the conversation rather than providing the answer like a lot of them present you so many different scenarios and results and it's like what do you think about all this while the last was two is this this complicated nightmare of all these different points that are in other place joker and the only thing most people conclude is oh revenge bad and there's you have people being like no it's much more complicated than that it's like well like uh word worth making it as complicated as the game did i feel like in the same way that you could say oh so much shit it's like oh what does it mean to be human like like that's a simplified vision but revenge bad the reason why that's more dismissive is because it's not what is revenge it's revenge bad which is way more interesting to talk about what the the ideas behind revenge and justice and all how it all works instead of just being like nah just stop it's bad it's bad how far will a character go to get what they want what's their stopping point and when do they decide it's not worth it anymore this is a lot about the kind of person you're dealing with you could say the same game just for joel abbey and ellie but i really think because it's been discussed before but tommy such a perfect representation of this game having no fucking clue what it's doing he's against the idea of seeking revenge but then he does it and he's incredibly successful up until he decides no i don't want to do it and then he gets punished harshly and then he's back on board with doing it and then he gets denied you're like what in the world are you trying to say game and then ellie you know she wants revenge too and then she gives up at the at the very finish line and she gets punished way worse than abbey does yeah it's the whole idea abbey got her revenge and wins uh joel uh tommy and ellie abandoned their quest for revenge and i punished severely for that decision and we have people trying to tell us that no this is this is good because abbey you know she was really a victim of jules and her dad did nothing wrong like that's the perspective of this game that's what we're trying to sell the game but it's not working on us it's like it's really not working on on folks like us jules did nothing wrong you're like i just don't i just don't accept everything that's presented to me at face value dare i say it i'm a little critical of this stuff i'm a bit skeptical of the things that i'm being just given yeah and a lot of people aren't and it's it's shitty to see reviewers who are like that who are who are fooled by these empty moves by games to trick them well no you need to be critical and skeptical you're getting them you know it's basically ppr it is what it feels like when you watch a lot of like the ign game sports type reviews they're just oh yeah information that was said by the developers and developer commentaries and stuff do you mean like oh they're just extended adverse yeah the game that's totally come yeah i just i like it when several of them start with the music it slowly comes in there's a there's a shot this beautiful and goes the last of us two is and then they say something flowery our game or is it an experience an experience a surprisingly large amount of them are british and that bugs me are there any welsh welsh runs in there i hope not i hope we've escaped the curse of access media fight whenever i saw a group of humans i got super excited to try and find an ideal route for taking everybody out while dude that's so funny if if the developer was like don't you feel awful about all this he's like i got super excited when i saw people to kill them all drink their blood this isn't he just commented on how it's like oh it makes it's more realistic makes it it's like they're more human they act more humans like i love fucking killing them now he's like i want to optimize my death yeah i i feel like if drachman saw this he'd be like oh well no okay like it's one thing to actually have to kill someone in self-defense in real life which i would think would fuck any one of us up but i the concept of ending someone's life just gets me a little bit whether or not i did in self-defense i would this is the thing i would feel justified but it'll be like damn that guy is not going to affect anything ever again because of what i did that's what i mean not feeling like you're just a monster for what you did it like just work for killing someone but when it comes to like a video game it's kind of hard to achieve that same effect really hard it depends on me i just fucking get a license plate that said kd1 it's not it's hard because i think well i mean for starters it's not being real makes it hard but i think you can like if you have a choice that generally is the way to make it feel a lot worse i would argue is relative uh soma you can only even end the life of like fucking three people and that's also about definitely defining how life works in this game you're ending fucking thousands of people's lives you eventually become numb to it so yeah i just think that if you want to this is what i mean it was the wrong ip to do this with as far as i'm concerned and if you were like what you can't work it at all it's like okay if we are we don't have to make some changes oh certainly because this is a post-apocalyptic situation where killing is going to be necessary for survival a lot of the time and uh it doesn't seem like like this is the right setting for talking about how violence in general is is bad and you should be ashamed of yourself if you ever kill a person you know what does it mean to cause pain you're like what i can't hear you have a mom hearing you over all the xp i'm gooder serving as much ammo as possible i use the gun so infrequently that it felt really good whenever i was left with no choice but to tap into my ammo and just go crazy on people left no choice but to use you're not supposed to do that though i'm sorry did you just hit that person with the reticle on there but there's like no hit marker i don't know like when you go through a second shot taking everybody out while serving as much ammo as possible i use the gun so infrequently yeah it felt really good whenever i was left with no choice but to tap into my ammo and just go okay so they should be on their ass right right there from that one shot right and then yeah they're they're done and then we see the reticle is on this person it's fixed on this person as he's reloading crazy on people however the zombie fights were still like he was just about to shoot well i think i don't think he's shot yet i think no i saw him shoot i did as much as possible i use the gun so infrequently that it felt really good whenever i was left with no choice but to tap into my ammo and just go crazy on people however the zombie oh yeah that time i did um i didn't see a hit marker either i mean it might have turned up just a little bit later than the clip showed maybe yeah if i were still kind of hit or miss for me even on the higher difficulty their ai is kind of bad and yeah i get their zombies but most of the wait he thinks the human ai is good and the zombie ai is bad i reverse that i don't understand i think the zombie ai is almost fine i don't really have much of an issue with it less of a demand placed on them so yeah i um the zombies i don't rely on you know they get the benefit of acting weird complex some some of the humans have good ai once they're in combat with you like they will try and outflank you they will put down cover fire to keep you down while they maneuver around they do work in cooperation with each other well when the game's set up properly for it it just doesn't happen i'm a cynical bastard to the point where saying they flank you i'm like wait i thought you said something good not something standard yeah it's at that level where it's like okay it works you know i'll give you that but they function once they're in combat it's when you're in stealth mode that they're shit you know what i mean to me it's almost the same as being like in fitness the cinematography is good and your wife's like well you can see all of the characters that are speaking when they speak i'm like yeah there are colors on screen visual is a company the audio and so that's the fact that they flank you while others are shooting at you is probably the most complicated thing this ai can do yeah because it would be really cool if they threw like smoke bombs at you you know to flush you out of cover like wouldn't it be cool if you had enemies where they're like they toss some explosive to flush you out and they're like it's open kill him or something like there he is get him they will do that in the first game they at least have the guys with gas masks that throw molotovs but it's always like they are always wearing gas masks so you always know which are the molotov enemies wow oh yeah they did do the first game but did they do that in this one did they like well they threw explosives a few times for sure i think i got hit with a molotov once on my playthrough at the very least yeah and you don't have to have intelligent ai to disrupt players getting into a rhythm if you're killing floor two is a good example of how some enemies just by the way that they will attack you will force you to move yeah and do stuff and it's it's very simple super rudimentary ai that works really well for that kind of game but just because that enemy will do this and that enemy attacks like that it forces you to not just stand there and shoot kind of like left or dead they introduced kind of like left or dead special infected so to shake it up um kill in floor two for example you can mostly headshot everything but now these enemies the uh not only are killed easier by going for their weak spots that aren't their head or chest there's ones that are exclusively their chest and it's like hey that's good it can do things like if they get too close to you they'll tether you in place and you can't move until you shoot them and some will shoot at a distance and you get an audio cue before they do so so you know you can't just stand there still you have to move and just little things that shake it up and make the ai and uh this game ever like grab you and hold you and use you as a human shield that you can get into grabs but i don't think that happens i i think it's more like they uh they grab you and you have to um to like fight all right all right well it's just because i remember like this is what i mean every time i think of like those demos that they had for uh at e3 for both of these games the ai are way smarter in the demo than uh yes than they ever were in the game they do things that they never do in the game which makes you think oh is it scripted gameplay like is it they scripted it all but they made it play out in a in the game engine which in which case it's like yeah well it's annoying because like when i'm when you're getting swarmed by zombies right one zombie grabs you um and the other zombies just kind of watch and they attack you one at a time whereas one thing i really remember liking about Uncharted 3's gameplay was you could have enemies grab you and you're like you're mashing square to um to like sort of elbow the guy that's grabbed you but then you'd have to occasionally press i think circle or triangle to kick away a guy that was like trying to attack you while you grabbed it i like that that mechanic and i love it if something similar happened in the last of us games but i don't think that's done something like that can be done no and in a lot of the games if you're playing left or dead or killing floor or fucking seven days die and all these other games like no if you're surrounded by five enemies that means five enemies are attacking you you you shouldn't let those five enemies surround you like that oh that knew it was gonna happen there were a couple of awkward moments where uh i was tussling with like one of the infected and i could spot some of them in the background just awkwardly like waiting like you guys you done some of them don't though some of them do attack you as well i just it again just comes across as like the the bots have pathing issues um most prominent is when i was prone under a desk just outside the arena if you will and i managed to shoot um a clicker at a distance and instead of it like panicking running around not knowing where the fuck that came from which wouldn't be preferable by the way it should come to the sound um it just stood there and it was like ah what's going on and the reason it did that was because i imagine the mechanic is scripted so that it'll attach to boy wherever you are and then it'll build a pathway to you and if i'm prone underneath this desk that bridges two areas together it doesn't understand where i am it's like i don't get it i don't get how to get there so it just doesn't do anything which is really bad yep i really feel like um if they if they want to have you feel immersed in the experience right um if you get grabbed by a zombie while you're surrounded by other zombies you're fucked why that's the time for a quick time event that's where you want to have games that have quick time events in them if you get grabbed you want to have that quick time event there to simulate to a degree frantic you know a frantic action that isn't exact you trying to just batter this thing off of you and you just turn into a button mass just mash that button as hard as you can to mirror with the characters going through which is what they do but once like you shouldn't have invulnerability to the other zombies that are around you who just stand still very worth reposting this meme for this dream oh that one's so good i feel like fat garrel and the dawn would get along really well no heroes they're the hero the the they're there are movies advice us to basically movie they're their movies tried to portray them to be bad but in our hearts we knew that they we knew they were the real heroes that's the sad sad realities that they have to fight so much harder just the fact that people have latched on to fat garrel says like a hero is it says so much about the game well it's because it reminds me of dawn like you know if it weren't for for fat garrel and the rattlers then abby and lev would have just gotten to the to the fireflies with no problem yep whereas like at least they got enslaved for a few months and got some form of punishment at least they got enslaved for a few months not a sentence i ever thought it was at least those women correct and cross country got enslaved they were trying to deliver justice and then ellie accidentally saves abby would you like oh joel design sonica damn anyway time you don't have to think too hard to get past them and while i got really excited for each encounter with the humans i felt equal amounts of dread whenever i heard zombies nearby however the one fun thing is that if you're good enough you can just melee the zombies and save some ammo there's even this mini boss that had to fight later on and i didn't really have any ammo to spare so i found out that i could just beat the shit out of him with my bare hands as long as i would say that it wasn't true that was pretty fun i was actually glad that i got to do that but i don't know it's just one of those things where if i was going through the video i was like oh wait i said something that wasn't true i should probably just edit that out of me saying the untrue thing i'm having a brain wave here i'm pretty sure guys people in chat who saw this pretty sure i tried to beat this thing to death and i was told in chat that that was stupid of me to try because it was clear the game was telling me it can't be killed by mealy and then i said my issue was with the camera left so my damage on the thing but apparently you can kill this thing with me uh fists so that person was fucking that person was fucking with me tried that a ton i i didn't work for me at least when i was fighting the rat king i don't think you could defeat that thing with melee no you can't defeat the rat king that thing i don't think you can defeat with melee oh i didn't i didn't even know whether or not i could i just assumed i couldn't yeah well i did and i'm gonna have to get the footage back but the camera fucking couldn't handle it i kept like doing just doing the guitar hero thing with the with the shitty fucking dodge mechanic and eventually like it got all gunked up because they have the um the fact that your forward momentum pushes you to a certain place when you're punching at the same time you're supposed to lock into the enemy and that's at the same time that the enemy can sometimes decide to start its own you know series of attacks the game struggles to maintain that entire system because it tries to keep everybody on the same track but sometimes they want to start a new track sometimes the end track hasn't finished yet lots of tizmy things happen and i i see it as the whole time i see it as the game fighting itself because it's desperately trying to remain on the same two tracks but it's trying to start new ones up sometimes and uh yeah i was told i was an idiot because you shouldn't be trying to beat this thing that's not you can't kill it that way and the game is telling you that i was like i okay oh it's the game telling us okay yeah well it's just funny because apparently you can do it i still wish that there were less zombies and more humans which is sad because this is a zombie game now maybe wait is it why have how have you determined it's a zombie game i'm sorry he said that he wished that there was less zombies there's not even that many zombies to begin with the general conversation about this is that the zombies are an afterthought in this game absolutely a lot first and foremost yeah that's right it's about revenge bad which i know makes people upset to say that's what the game is about but that is what it is about revenge bad it's that we're giving it we're giving it as much complexity as it gave us so there you go yeah for him to say that he wishes that there was like less zombies is like oh so you want just one zombie section yeah none yeah because there was very few you you have the things that come to mind are the the i need some fat zombie in reference to garyl like the fat zombie the big chunk of zombie the rat king as people are calling it the the skyscraper descending bit that's like i'm already running low i'm like oh the bit after you throw norah into the spools that's another one i guess it was only a couple the zombies on the chains in the rattlers compound um in the subway that's another one the best the best ones like this yeah the the clickers in the subway when you're chasing after norah like you're able to send them after the um yeah that's like i think the true times they can do it in the game again in the game you have service and always play through they would go after him and ignore the wolf it was fucking annoying the shit out of me i was like they they will ignore all of their human targets to go for the protagonist and the stupid uh there was like some zombies in the section where tommy's the the sniper um oh yeah he's like which by the way it confuses me that they're going after the the sound of the bullets ricocheting off the car and not yeah as opposed to the actual rifle yeah also lucky lucky for tommy that there's just a big group of zombies near the area of the people i'm infinite ammo yeah i don't know how i feel about the ricochet thing i'm depending on what you're shooting the ricochet can be super loud and you would hear the ricochet before the the gunfire in the distance and they would probably prioritize well he's shooting car like windows and stuff that's what he's doing i'm fine with him going towards those instead of the further away loud sound i suppose the other element you can add is that he's lucky there's no zombies in his area yeah it would be drawn to his sniper you just that's just not the case it's like okay yeah i'm fine with them going to the to the bullet impacts especially because if the zombies looked over there they'd be like oh shit people hmm i'm fine with that okay i'm i'm still undecided on it but the there's plenty of wrong with with that sequence outside of that it's to me it's still weird just because of how loud that sniper rifle is yeah it's loud like we're not talking about like a suppressed weapon right so if you had a suppressor on a sniper rifle that would make sense at least but yeah you wouldn't have a tune between the sounds doesn't he shoot at them when they're inside though yes they're inside the garage all right well that that further skews it towards the point of they'd go to the impact closer to them in that closed off garage that would dull the sound of the rifle in the distance and it would amplify the sound of the well the problem is that the rifle sounds really loud all the time in that sequence and he's not like he's also not that far away like it's not a really it's not that far away no i still think they'd go towards the impact i mean that's what they would that's the sound that would happen first anyway and well in the game it's not the sound that happens first that's the problem the game oh yeah i guess i'm thinking about this tune realistically yeah in fact now that you brought it up there is no delay between the time that the bullet impacts and the the sound like the time that you actually hear it when this should be and that's such a sound guys it's not that fast yeah it's such a basic thing that adds a whole bunch to you know the game when uh when um uh oh god damn it it was it was uh uh vindiesel's guy he gets shot he gets hit before uh you hear the sound of the rifle yeah i mean it's i mean that's it's like it's it's pretty good and it's not like you have to it's just all you have to do is just delay the sound that's all you have to do it just doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do obviously i'm not a coder but it just seems like that's a great detail to add in that would make a lot of sense it's also at the accountant that ben afleck movie yeah the light between the shot and the actual sound yeah those are also rags you know the concept of you're walking through an area and an npc's in front of you and says hey how you doing and then as they finish the sentence they move behind you and that sound follows through on your headphones or earphones whatever you're using um do you find that impressive like if something is behind me you'll hear it as though it's behind me yeah i mean it's not really impressive that's sort of the standard it's pretty normal standard again i would argue that's standard at this point yeah i feel like that's what i would expect it would be it would instantly make me question the game if that didn't happen the sound is a really standard thing it's pretty important in video games if a clock shouts at you from the left and the sound sounds equalized until you look around to see where it is i'd be like damn that's fucked up like they need to fix that like directional sound is one of those things that instantly gets players to be like hey this this is a bug in the game it needs to be fixed especially if it's a game where you like a pvp game you're playing apex or counter strike or anything like that and the footsteps don't accurately you know give you an idea of where the actual feet are that's something that players will instantly notice and bitch about and that's the kind of stuff that can kind of ruin games right and it's just yeah we're free you know watching some reviews where they'd be like when people are in front of you the sound will come from in front of you you know like yeah it's unbelievable it's unbelievable it's actually unbelievable yeah like no shit i mean i'm happy to just move on it's like now maybe i'm a masochist but i actually really did enjoy restarting whenever i didn't nail my run the way i wanted to whenever i made it through an area that i don't yeah i don't why why would that be masochist i did i did the same thing i guess that's you wanting to replaying it again yeah that's you just wanting personal satisfaction that's one of the things that makes help yeah to enjoy playing a game again dude it reminds me of like the rage shadow leadership it's like if you buy now you can skip the first five levels you're like wow i mean for most games it wouldn't be masochism but for this game i guess i just think it's the concept of running a level twice that's like that's like unheard of even though in stealth games that's incredibly common is easy to run a big himself up and give himself credit for something that's really basic it's like maybe i'm an absolute perfectionist but you know i like to play through the game twice just if i can do better next time right when in stealth games that's certainly a pretty common thing where there's no mechanical reason like in-game reason why you would want to retry to do better it's just a matter of i know as a player i could have done better i'm gonna restart this segment try it again because i want to feel like i pulled it off like you're quote-unquote supposed to it's like yeah i technically succeeded but not in my head in my head i i didn't do as good as i should have mo i ended up restarting because i kind of had to you only got one bullet every once in a while personally this is how i like playing games but if this isn't for you then don't play on the highest difficulty i guess in fairness to him a lot of the the random people of the world do just want to move through they don't want to be like uh i'll do this again but not spend that one bullet while a lot of people who love the challenge aspect will be like oh yeah i'm saving that one fucking bullet yeah this is actually a pretty you know solid bit of advice from him you know i'll have a problem about a lot of people are probably gonna be more than okay with the idea that they wasted all their ammo and they hope the game will restock them gonna hurt your feelings if i was scoring the combat on its own i would say on the hardest difficulty i got like an eight out of ten experience out of that i only feel like the harder you go the more the gable fall apart i don't think i'd give the witcher an eight out of ten for combat that's what i mean it's pretty fucking high when you're talking about combat in video games like yeah he did say experience though really good the implication being how he he he felt during all of it so if that's it that's it eight out of ten would be like for me i guess it'd be like infamous too or maybe spider-man infamous i wouldn't even give infamous to i really like infamous but i wouldn't give it an eight no way i've got problems out of ten um are we doom i give an eight out of ten i would probably give him an eight out of ten yeah because this is a matter of you really want to give yourself room for those nines and tens yeah um what would like in terms of gameplay like what would a ten out of ten game be um probably something really basic like like maybe like mario game would be yeah i think mario or ten out of ten if i think about it yeah yeah that would be the ten tens out of tens where they they absolutely nail the scope of the project like it's this yeah like it's you you'd have to struggle to it is as good as it could ever possibly be probably yeah i don't see how you could improve something you know in that in that sense like how do you make it better like i don't even know what better would look like fringy what about a uncharted four what would you what would you rate that like probably a seven i think it's good um but not like fantastic it's pretty straightforward is i guess the problem so like i'm not sure if i would give it anything i think i need a little bit more mechanical depth like devil might cry is more like at you know eight nine territory there like in terms of our gameplay and i would say the difference between like above five and below five would be its functionality yeah it would have nothing to do with you know spectacle or anything like that it would just be does it work is it consistent and then from there it's how well does it work you know yeah like how well does it does it yeah does it work gets you to a five um yeah then complexity takes you the rest of the way um maybe i don't know how i need complexity yeah i don't think so either that's why i put tetris as like a ten because it is it's kind of relative to argue complexity on tetris is it not like there's people out there who are the best tetris players ever and they oh yeah the game is uh deep but mechanically it's very uh straightforward yeah almost in the same way like chess so that is like elegance and like implementation i suppose um sort of in a sense yeah uh but that's why when you know i was thinking of a 10 out of 10 i instantly went to a very simple concept executed extremely well yeah doesn't mean it's necessarily rewarding or um yeah it gives you incredible feedback but it is executed incredibly you know perfectly essentially which is not how i described the last one too no not quite i was bored out of my fucking mind and it was not an experience that i would like to relive i understand that not everybody is a masochistic gamer like me and some people just want to get through the story and they don't care about the gameplay that much but i played it on the hardest difficulty and i really ask why you're playing video games in the first place but yeah um i think that it's kind of a prerequisite i would say for people you know should i review games rags like well do you like playing games not really it's like then maybe you shouldn't yeah don't really care about gameplay then you're not the medium for you maybe movies are more your thing and we know movies aren't cosmonauts thing so he's kind of in it maybe his forte shall be books or um food critic how about that only like boxing because i was on the hardest difficulty so i think that's worth noting so anyway now we got to talk about the real meat and potatoes of this game the story okay you can't do that without spoiling if the potatoes of a game is the story i'm like that better be really fucking good story if i'm playing a game but the meat and potatoes is the story still a mechanics to complement the story whatever it is yeah yeah i'm gonna spoil the game now okay that's your warning don't yell at me i'm gonna spoil it let's go honestly the story of this game is a mixed bag and that's putting it lightly there are aspects of this story that i add it's shit all around i'm struggling to think of good scenes that aren't the flashback the well just that one flashback yeah like i was almost about to say the flashbacks and i stopped and just like that's singular there is that one uh bit in that one flashback where jule cuts up a a bloater like it's nothing with a machete i like that part that's that's cool and depending on your playthrough he did all the damage to that bloater i was expecting ellie to go jule what the fuck what are you doing i can't believe you this is just like you i was supposed to die in that motel absolutely love and there are a lot of things that left me baffled truly and utterly baffled on why they chose to do things the way that they like the same but my annoyance is oh well no go ahead i was about to say this is the whole scene where you have you know them confronting each other about what joel did and i'm like joel explain this to her joel no don't sit there and take explain this to her you have so much information to give her and you're just not doing it fuck joel i can't believe it lost it's like he doesn't know what to say and it's like joel did you not think about this did you not think maybe this day would come and plan anything else just tell her what happened yeah it is so simple it's like you hate me but let me tell you what fucking happened well it's like what they did story four where they have woody just at a loss for words uh in that argument with bow and it's like no woody you're in the right here bow's in the wrong and they just uh the writer doesn't believe that woody's in the right though and yeah and so then woody doesn't make the arguments that he should be making yeah this is this is the frustrating part of bad writing when they just intentionally nerf a character because the it doesn't serve the plot that they want to push yeah their intelligence and their knowledge is getting in the way this is the thing with um the joel scene a lot of people argue over what exactly was his motivation you don't know for sure you don't know if he had anything to do with the kill well it would be nice if the game gave us something what does it matter yeah he doesn't give a joel would know and joel would relay that to the person it doesn't matter what was actually in his head for the motivation we saw what happened he was the gun was put on him he was knocked out his shit was taken the deal was welched on there's loads of things he can talk about yeah it's like i why are you not saying anything here use your words man it describes in vague terms it's like you don't even need to do that just explain why you did it you can explain why you saved her it's like you had a reason for that and it's like well yeah why did it need to be two sentences why couldn't you just say a little bit more like so because talk about what happened because if he explained himself then the retcon would fall apart well if the retcon would fall apart and ellie would seem totally unreasonable yeah ellie would talk to him she'd talk it through instead she can go i'm weird yeah she's with weird unreasonable cunt in this game and you're like fuck man it's like geez everyone's just ruined yeah we were one tier away from them writing it as him saying the whole world was gonna be rainbows and sunshine but i stopped it but i i was in the first draft well yeah the problem all of this creates then is like you're frustrated at joe because he suddenly can't explain himself and you're you end up pissed off at ellie as well because you know what joe did and why and it's like you instinctively then just think ellie's just being an arsehole and and being like mean to him and and dismissive and disrespectful without acknowledging anything that he went through and anything that he had to do so both characters then come across badly they're both like ruined by this you mentioned this before but like they act like ellie didn't know that something was going on at the end of the last yeah yes like she was completely clueless it's like no she and that's yeah and that's why it's again it's necessary to change things and have characters not know or not say important things in order to make this this function otherwise it wouldn't work and yeah it's just so simple just just tell her what happened all you got to do is just tell her what happened and there's a thing uh there are like 17 different elements to the story that are really interesting for him and ellie to talk about not one was mentioned so annoying and unfair but uh it gets in this storyline well the explanation is if you find the super secret easter egg where you get a jules trading card it explains that his strength is at 100 but his his brains is at 10 oh how can he live this long that's not oh hey i'm strangers that i have never met before oh you're uh you're just a couple miles away from our town yeah i live down there and my name is joel by the way you're an idiot south don't you see in the first game was never portrayed as dumb okay he's not like the most articulate man in the world but he's able to convey like situations that happened yeah he wouldn't just sit there and yeah he wouldn't just accept her hatred if anything this is the one time where he should you know like use his words because he doesn't want this person of all people in the world to hate him well and he passionately believes that he would make the same decision again it's like hey joel why do you believe that explain it yeah uh you were gonna say mauler you're an idiot because joel is soft you see spending years in a town that's regularly attacked by zombies with hundreds of people that he cares about to protect going on regular patrols always looking over his shoulder for all the things that he's done that turned him soft let's not forget this game established that there are bandits that attack that yeah there have been bandits and writers yeah so it's not just zombies that are like a threat to that town it's other humans changes like that at any rate no one is gonna like who's lived in this apocalypse for like 25 years at this point in four years you're telling me he goes completely soft and is just trusting everyone it's like there's no way yeah you're never going to trust people after all of the things he's been through you're never ever gonna just meet a stranger and be like oh yeah i'm gonna assume you're all right that's the finale of the first game he chose over humanity value yeah that's what adds so much incredible value to their relationship and what it becomes she's the exception but it's earned mostly at the last of us was good i do place that with many ip's over the past fucking decade that's hold true how does it feel to watch your favorite franchises go up in smoke would never get old is like a jerk yeah feels great the fact that people are mad at the wrong and untouched by the writing that's happening today yeah they did them but my annoyance is mostly at the fact that people are mad at the wrong things in this game oh no i don't do tell guys get in your bomb shelters we got a nuclear take it's probably covered already are just mad at the fact that joel dies it's just the fact that he dies it has nothing to do with the fact that the circumstances around it make no sense that he has to act out a character that this is a guy who is extremely competent after being seasoned for over 25 years or so of of fighting other humans he doesn't trust anyone and he just goes ahead and he gives people his his name he just gives you don't act like you heard doing something he knows that there will be people searching for him after what he did in salt lake city at the beginning of the stream we were talking about it and i was i was kind of close to telling everyone that we get it stop saying over and over that we'd be fine with joel dying if they did it right like we all know stop saying it we get it and i didn't say anything just it just goes show how much it said how much we have to reiterate over and over we're fine with joel dying i bet most people expected joel to die yeah it seems like it would happen again it seems natural for the progression of the story that you know he would sort of die can i actually go ahead and uh offer my idea that i i sent to you mauler about what to do to kill joel off two hours into the game and then have us play as his killer later on and sympathize with her in a way that would be way more effective than what we got can i read that out wow so you want to you want to give out your own piece of writing and then say everyone look how good it is you fucking vain pompous piece of shit go ahead yeah okay all right so um this is going to be my critique i say if the intent is to make abby an effectively sympathetic character then she should probably be related to someone that joel has killed prior to the events of the first game considering he pretty much admits to having killed innocent people in his past why not make abby a daughter of one of those innocent people that he killed back when he was a hunter you could have a flashback of an innocent family being ambushed in a similar manner to how joel and ellie were in the first game her dad could get seriously wounded during the ambush then her and her mom could find a spot to take cover as the hunters come closer and abby could get a clear look at them as they execute her dad and the camera could pan up to reveal a slightly younger looking joel we're talking anywhere between five to 15 years before the events of the first game uh one of the other hunters could even call joel by his name allowing abby a chance to know the face and name of the man who killed her father without provocation and then she and her mother could slip away and evade joel and his fellow hunters you could even turn that into a gameplay segment where you're playing as abby or her mother as you try to get to safety and maybe even have joel constantly on your trail and because you'd have to be an undefeatable npc the player would get a sense of how frightening it would have been to be on the receiving end of his bloodlust from the earlier years of the apocalypse so make joel an antagonist for a segment of gameplay that'd be cool i think yeah i think i'm cool with like action in the sense of like in highlight five it probably would have been a good idea to have an actual boss fight with master chief like that that would have been pretty cool kind of a sham they never did that or anything good at all in that fucking game no we're all just bad that joel died okay there's there's nothing that we can do to make it work kind of reminds me of um tlj where it's like you're just mad luke is dead you'd be like oh it's clearly the bad thing that he didn't do with flips yeah you're mad luke isn't the way you want it it's like can you stop with this shit like focus on the actual arguments come on simply for k so many tons of people do it and it's like just please argue against what we're actually saying rather than just saying this is what we're saying it's like we're not saying that so many people in my chat who are angry that joel doesn't get a redemption arc which isn't even really all that true because he does admit his lie to ellie and they do talk about it a little bit how is that a redemption arc this is amazing this is the first step that one might take towards a redemption arc this isn't an arc an arc implies completion how do you redeem himself for what he did at the end of the game i don't feel he gets shut on for being nice to her like does he need to be redeemed for lying is that what we're saying or is it that he are we are we just being definitive that what he did at the end of the first game is absolutely evil is that what we're saying yeah it's like this arc that they're trying to portray in this game is just him coming to terms with the fact that he's been wrong about everything he's ever done in life because of joel literally every death that happens after the first game is joel's fault pru i mean good authority i know this it's hurts to listen to people say this because like man they're gonna knock the fuck out of that straw man they're gonna fuck it up well bad fuck that straw man i genuinely think that joel was the hero of the first game he was what so i will say this he did bad things in the past but everything that we see him do in the first game is pretty much justified like gameplay wise everything that we see him do is justified he is always killing to survive he is always killing in self-defense and in the at the end of the game he is killing a bunch of people who are going to murder a 14 year old girl without getting surgeons consent from her he's the hero he would define it the hero if he's saying people think joel's the hero and he's not a good guy it's like well a hero doesn't necessarily need to be altruistic i hate the idea that if you've committed a crime or misdeed you can no longer act heroic like what which is not what that's what makes the heroic actions all the more meaningful because someone's breaking from their habits like the entire first game is his redemption arc like that's what that's what he's all about he goes from this like callous survivor who just like does what he has to do to keep going to like actually believing in something and protecting a person that he cares about and being willing to sacrifice everything for her there's his redemption right there i i hope he gets into what he thinks the redemption arc is because it'll probably tell us a lot about how he views these in media which will probably inform us quite a bit people played that game and watched the ending and thought to themselves wow joel saved his daughter from those bad doctors yes he absolutely did they were going to kill her they were going to operate on her without waking her up telling her what was going to have to happen and saying so are you okay with this people can say oh she's 15 she can't consent okay so legally speaking no but we're not talking about laws here we're just talking about ethics okay yeah we you know the idea that was that is built because you know there's a concept that she doesn't understand the ramifications of the choice but i'm pretty sure ellie would from what we we learned from here in the first game mm-hmm she's mature enough yeah she killed her only immune subject man they get her and on the day that they get her they don't want to run further tests on her they don't want to study her they don't want to make her into like a living lab rather you know they take care of you know but uh we just want the standard thing for i think it's more the idea that um is a antibody if the fireflies were given an option to ask her and if she said no would they listen to her if the answer is no then that says a lot about the fireflies well the thing is they don't give her the option they don't because they don't want to give her the option i don't think yeah which is arguably worse if they had asked her and she said no they went i'm sorry we've got to push through but if they like don't ask her just in case she says no yeah you know to make us feel better about ourselves it's amazing that marlene is like this is what she would want and yet it's like do you know that for sure maybe ask her if you're so confident that this is what she would want just wake her up and and confirm if after all if this is what she'd want what's the what's the harm right time is not the essence here guys you've got time you know i love to just the world has kind of slowed down a bit for you no worries i'd love to jump into the game be like hey ali they drugged you just say they're gonna do tasks to kill you how does that make you feel yeah don't mind the fact that you were making plans with joel never mind the fact that you say after we're done with this i will go wherever you want to take me right after the giraffe scene like they were making plans she was not planning on dying she did not know that she would have to die now of course she's like this can't all be for nothing but at the same time it's it's fucking crazy unethical to just opt to kill her without telling her anything here saying it can't all be for nothing i'd sit her down and be like okay so this is actually where your um your age might be fucking you over let's go over exactly what happens if they get a vaccine out of you okay there's a lot to cover i don't know if we want to cover it yeah take a seat many variables that don't lead to happy sunshine earth like the start on off is the uh the syringes like you would need so much equipment to distribute a vaccine and they're like a terrorist how about trials well i mean the the infrastructure and the transportation you would need to actually get it around the country doesn't exist like the world yep it's not there you're going to be millions millions of doses of it which is manufacturer because you don't have any factories is that what they would do are the fireflies good at traveling far distances no because marlene said you guys are operating under the assumption that the fireflies just want to give are they going to turn this into some negotiating tool to become the dominant faction yes and what happens is that they'll find out that they're hoarding the that the cure in the hospital and then run and remember all of the conflicts in the second game they don't have anything to do with zombies it's all fact and remember that even if you make it cure the zombies can still kill you which is the main threat that they pose yeah bloters shambles the rat king runners stalkers they all still exist and they're all a huge threat in fact if you list all of the threats in the world spores are possibly on the lowest level on the lower tier yeah the spores they only really form in like basements and things don't they like pretty much yeah yeah you can combat them with wearing a gas mask the meanwhile the fucking faction war that's happening it was like that's like the biggest deal with all the death in this game it's like a fucking cure is going to do anything for that yeah they're the fireflies are losing their war against fedra they are growing desperate okay and so i'm just thinking like you're really thinking that they would be willing to just allow everyone to immunize you think that they probably their ticket to survival they're like shit we're really kind of back into a corner here if we tell them we have a cure and if we just say hey we've got some really really good doctors and stuff we'll work with you just you know in the war do a truce we'll become part of you we'll let you control us but you know this is our ticket to survival here but then with it would fedra even believe them i mean you could probably this is something they could test yeah they would check out at least yeah they definitely check it out yeah if you came up to them and said hey we've actually developed a cure we want to ceasefire and you can have all of it you want we just want to live basically fedra would probably be like prove it then we'll talk was there someone so we have the doctors and all the people who can actually make that happen um malin helped raise ali therefore she would count as her consent no wait did is that even true how how do you know marlene first of all uh marlene sent ali to go to the the fedra like boarding school thing the military preparatory school and when um in the first scene that we see ali uh jules like oh you're you're recruiting kind of young aren't you and she says she's not one of mine like she said she kind of went to her because she had no other choice she got bitten right either way um i was just going to highlight that that doesn't mean you don't ask ali that's that's not a form of consent someone else someone else i don't think we should be appealing to law in a lawless fucking world like that doesn't even make sense ask the girl if she's okay with dying in order to potentially create a cure which by the way there's a lot of dodgy shit with the creation of a cure as well yeah yeah law and and ethics are two separate things i don't think we'll be going by whatever states you know uh current legal system says is the consent limits i don't think that's what we'd be going by ali is perfectly capable of rationalizing the concept of dying to save people it's one thing if she would actually be like um comatose to the point where she will never wake up but the fact is that's not the case because she wakes up eventually and if the fireflies just aren't able to test whether or not she'd be able to wake up eventually then they're fucking incompetent doctors well i fail to fucking believe that they decide that they need to kill her with the first like half day it's like dude do some fucking tests for a while you got a live subject they ran like a couple tests like one of which was a spinal tap they somehow got cerebrals spinal fluid from her the surgeon's recorder mentions that and like you can do a spinal tap that you can't do like a brain biopsy like a white matter brain biopsy might have some side effects you should have every test that doesn't kill her done first yeah absolutely like what what what what could possibly be possible by just yeah i think that they'd be testing her antibodies and her white blood cells everything i mean this is unprecedented who knows what information you can gather from this this specimen do all the things you can like test for all of those things in less than a day no fucking way i don't even want to check the amount of time it takes to get results for all of these different tests in case it is a lot longer than that but i'm talking about like stress tests have her run for an hour and see how her vitals change your shit like that i don't believe that anything short of the technology that shuri from black panther has access to would be able to run that many tests and get results back that quickly in in less than a day fuck no no not with the level of technology and equipment that they have available especially mm-hmm also the fact that the abby's dad let's just address the fact that there's no way that he is older than what 42 43 this is 20 years 21 years after the outbreak so he was what 22 when uh when the outbreak happened he was in med school or he was just out of med school at best he definitely did not complete his post grad and yet we're supposed to be that he is experienced enough when it comes to brain surgery and when it comes to vaccinology to create a vaccine out of us really you're telling me he is just the most amazing uh prodigy when it comes to medical knowledge in existence he is the one if they start with the original character model who looked to be about late late 50s early 60s that would have been a lot more believable yeah yeah true also uh he couldn't pass his information on to anyone in any way not even a booklet nope no no couldn't dictate even though computers he was considered the lead surgeon implying there are other surgeons that surely can at least understand the concept of what fucking shit you can do nope he is this is the one guy who can develop a vaccine for a fungus which doesn't exist by the way into the real world you know even with like medical communities trying to figure that shit out no this one guy is supposed to vaccinate the most aggressive fungus in history there is no fungal infection that has ever existed that is as aggressive as the cordyceps in this game and so he's supposed to can can all of that put together right you can conclude the fireflies are incredibly incompetent downright malicious uh incredibly like rushing everything like head first i've no give no shits um about like a basic level of morality like i don't actually care if you think um like i'm gonna shoot rags and it'll save the world i have as a guarantee i'm still telling him i don't need to just do it without his consent just because i know that it'll save the world that shit's fucked up and besides we're in the post-apocalypse this is not quite the same as saving the current world we're living in which was all lives on this planet against one this is all lives but like this potentially is the keyword because we really have no guarantee and uh people are fucking crazy all over the world right now don't even know how many are left or how to get it to him it's Joel's choice could have been informed by a metric ton of reasoning except in the second game they tell us definitively all he was thinking about was i don't want it to die though that's it i'd be i'd be okay with dying like if someone had to shoot me in the head in order in order to like stop judgment day sure i'd give my consent to that like i i understand you know but something like this i don't know i don't know if i'd be okay with doing me yeah it's it's not a certain thing black and white and lots of us too absolutely treats it like it's black and white it's like no he would have saved the world it's like we don't know yeah there's no guarantee that the world would have been saved or even substantially improved and there's no guarantee that the world is going to like completely end if this doesn't happen like this is several years later you've got you know um you've got settlements like where joe and ellie are living now that seem to be pretty prosperous and safe and they're doing well there's probably places like that all around the world you know like introducing something like that into these different factions that could actually make things worse cause more conflict like that's a possibility as well also uh there's someone in chat saying um you don't think marlene weighed those options well evidently she didn't figure that would be you know okay to go ahead and and get a ellie's consent and why would i trust marlene anyway what do i care if she weighed it up she doesn't seem a good character to me the average experimental vaccine only has a funny chance oh sorry oh it's just mauler just said like oh i don't trust marlene but like the game treats her like she is a good guy like especially in this one well she's the one that decides everything to do with joe she's the one that welches on the deal she's the one who's like no you can't even see her get the fuck out of here and she will in the same breath be like in vidas i'm gonna go tell him because he's the only one who understands the gravity of the situation like what do you mean i love that i'm gonna go i'm gonna go tell him and then tell him to fuck off you think if they were pragmatic liars you but you should might even go like yep we're gonna house her here for a lot of tests you can leave now you know not not actually be like we're gonna kill it because she should know the kind of implication they'll have and then joe can be like what are you gonna do with it it's like oh test test test bye can we can we just like really if you were going to be like super pragmatic about it just have joe killed yourself because like he's gonna suspect that something's up here and he's just gonna come back only one dude to escort him out yeah it's like the exact opposite of what it's it's not like they have a guide to how to be a creepy evil organization 101 and they followed all of the steps perfectly incompetent and maliciously fucking negligent evil there's there's somebody who has applied to everything about it and if joe had gotten all of this out to ellie oh my god the game would have been improved dramatically because there's they can't fall into the narrative that they wanted it to well i'm okay with joe leaving i'm okay with him like not necessarily having this rationale like that all of it but he's sitting here to have some advice yeah and i'm just thinking like what about the trials man like you'd have to run trials on this vaccine to make sure that it works before you distribute it and that would take a shitload of time and they they run the risk of possibly running out of uh of um samples from the tissue extracted from ellie's brain before they actually even come up with one like there is a strong likelihood there's too strong of likelihood that ellie would die for nothing and at that point like what is the uh what's the value of a human life what's what's it worth that's what i think i think joel decided it's worth saving her even with the potential of you know it's just too risky to to risk all of that but humanity is not exactly in a great position is kind of where i was going with that really really bad job trying to recontextualize all that to the point where it's it's a retcon of all that stuff and if that's what you have to do to make us be cool that's just shitty writing and there's no excuse for it considering it's seven years and you've had all this time to bounce around ideas people would have gladly waited as long as it needed to be if you said you were gonna make another one there's no excuse there's no excuse other than a lack of talent this is basically like an elsewhere story at best like this is a this is set in a in a universe where the last of us played out a lot differently not the game that we actually got and um they make him have puppy dog face like in all of his scenes where he's told he's wrong as if he's like oh true yeah it's like what oh you know how about a bit of anger like of all the things that he had to go through and all the things he had to sacrifice and probably the killing that he had to do that he didn't want to for her and it's like yeah it's all getting thrown back in his face and he's being treated like a piece of shit like how about a little bit of like yeah you know what I've had to do some pretty fucking horrible things for you yeah test with my friends who I knew how long ago you did you felt bad about that like just have some fucking balls and actually stand up for yourself but again he's not allowed to because this game wants payoffs that it doesn't earn all those precious memories that they made together after he saved her the museum the teaching her how to swim teaching her how to play guitar watching Jurassic Park with her like fuck man yeah those are experiences that she will all miss if she dies yeah of all the things that he needs to be invested in this is the one thing and he just doesn't people people someone tried saying to me oh well parents will sometimes shoot themselves in the foot intentionally and hide information from the kids to protect them from the truth or something it's like no for Joel this is like the one thing that's giving him purpose the truth would only benefit the both of them yeah there's no reason for him to hide anything it only does good if he tells her all this stuff the relationship is better she feels better like no actually your life your death wasn't potential death wasn't wasted we should totally be cool now it's weird we've waited this long but like once you know the facts of what happened your entire tune will change i think that she should really only be mad at him for lying to her for as long as as he did like that's a more just thing to feel angry about but the fact that the final cutscene is her yelling i was supposed to die in that hospital my life would have fucking mattered like no your life probably wasn't gonna matter like sorry yeah and it seems almost narcissistic as well to take that approach to it yeah like it's about me like i should have been important and you took that importance away from me it's like you're completely not understanding the the factors that play here and you're making it about you not to mention again they were making plans with each other and ellie just expected joel to read her mind and know that she would have been totally willing to die and just like fuck the plans that we've made together yeah i never say goodbye to you all that stuff she just didn't care about like we never she would have wanted yeah yeah it's insane what a shame what a game a game and the whole my life would have mattered he didn't do a speech that he should have done like your life does matter to all the people here to me you know yeah all all that i mean i if i were writing it'd be like she might wish she would maybe want to say something like that you know she wanted a meaningful death and joel says to her and i wanted you to have a meaningful life and then boom oh my god there you go done that yep that's that's the moment where the character like is just speechless because like holy shit what a hero i had people in my chat saying that his death was unfair because they brutally murdered and i quote a beloved character yeah he is he's beloved it is wait you can like you can prove this metrically like it's pretty fucking easy joel skyrocketed as iconic characters from video games on sony's like catalog yeah like the the the backlash to this game basically proves how beloved he was yeah the fact that people are so mad should indicate that yeah people liked him a lot how about how about we look at just the wikipedia article for joel can you one sec joel last of us and then we'll look at reception okay we'll just go to go to top five sony characters mm-hmm you know top five ps4 characters or something like that top five ps4 characters okay we've got joel's character received generally positive feedback call and more you already found that he cared about the character and considered him likable andy kelly of computer and video games wrote that joel has a likable warmth in his laconic texan's brawl jim sterling of destructoid found joel likable despite his impatience and harsh tone euro gamers olly welsh felt that by the game's end joel and ellie had matured from cliches into rounded characters uh i got this list got joel and ellie another one yeah i found one best playstation three characters number one nathan drake number two joel yeah i like how number three is craters number four is john barston number five is ellie joel is beloved fuck you it's so ridiculous it's like how could anyone possibly think it is like this is actually a quote from my chat it's like yeah he he literally is a beloved character why would he really like the last of us one if they didn't like joel he's like he's kind of integral he's a playable character what okay wouldn't really suck to play a game with a character with a protagonist who's unlikable gosh but you can you see how he is then so easy to frame this and to set up like this straw man argument it's like well he was never really that beloved anyway and like you shouldn't feel bad about him dying because he wasn't that popular and he wasn't a good person sour grapes man actually you're right so the argument here if you ignore what he just said the argument is a beloved character shouldn't get a death like this i suppose i would just argue it shouldn't be treated this way but then no character should be treated this way as nonsensically as this like yeah i'm okay with him dying brutally i am not okay with the circumstances leading up to him dying brutally being bullshit and i'm not okay i'm very not okay with being told that we should sympathize with a person who sadistically tortures him to death in front of his surrogate daughter and and think oh she's such a good person when her motivation is bullshit if i if i was in charge of making this game i would have been like oh we gotta make a sequel oh well joe's gonna die heroes death that's what's gonna happen this is what we're doing it makes sense it'll be super satisfying to everybody people will love it he'll go down in history he's a great character where he's gonna have so much respect it's just all wins we're just passing out w's at this point it's just the the obvious thing to do that makes so much sense on every level and they're like no let's do the opposite fucking i mean the fact that like so a character being beloved doesn't necessarily mean that they're well written it's just you know they're positively received in general right this is a consensus yeah yeah yeah you know this is a like beloved depends on yeah basically you have to understand okay the 90% of people receive the character positively yes okay well like legitimately fat garalt is that he doesn't have to be written well he just but he's beloved anyway just like this on crazy i mean how how could you not love a character who's on screen debut is him barreling into the frame fully wound up punch against someone a quarter of his size straight into a garage door causing him to twirl come on dude it's not even i actually i'm gonna make a case in my video for fat girl to a certain degree but you know like he he immediately is like hey how you doing buddy like you got an arrow through you and the guy's like oh i fuck it he's like you'll be okay you'll be okay come on come on and then he snaps it pulls it out and he's like right get that sword and i get the girl out of here just like hey this guy this guy is doing stuff like he he knows what's up he knows what's to do you just get a sense immediately like huh he seems competent he doesn't mess around he knows how to take someone down he demonstrates a certain degree of concern for his for his comrades you know okay he's established him pretty there he's an effective leader so he's gonna be like he's a slaver he'd be like oh well well i mean here's a good example i uh last night i was watching uh some clips of do you guys remember hank scorpio from the simpsons yeah one of the great one of the greatest one of characters and everybody in the comics is like i'd like to work for it was like he's a super villain it's like yeah he's nice to his employees you know he's cool he wants to go bowling with over like that's what i mean it only takes like a few minutes to establish somebody is really cool attention i good evening gentlemen i have the doomsday device like this it's like when homer asks for sugar from him he's just got it in his pockets like mr bond stop him he's supposed to die homer just rugby tackles him to the ground when homer i think homer he says like good because i don't have any cream like in relation to sugar in his pockets like as if yeah it's oh yeah he's got sugar like loose for homer and then he's like you want some cream and homer oh yeah for a second like i really like the uh the pot at the end where he's like homer if you could kill someone on your way out it would really help me a lot yeah i'm in a fight bro so good and yet welcome to the episode of efat where we cover cosmonaut variety hour we'll be discussing the episode of the simpsons with the one-off character written better than the protagonist of the game joel is not a fucking beloved character he is though that's insane to say that like this is where you want to you want to ask a few people before you say stuff like this yeah listen i'm i'm okay the idea if you like i don't particularly like this character but yes they're beloved like if you want to take that position that's totally fine but to state outwardly is like people love this character what do you mean it's like what are you talking about you're losing us cosmonaut you see you made some valid points with the gameplay mechanic stuff but now you're just going off the rails i mean let's put it this way i've played half of the first game watch the rest i have not played the second game and watched all of it i love joel so much all right like i think there's a lot of people in your position yeah who were just like oh he was really cool this is where like cosmonaut is outright like denying objective facts if you say a character is not beloved because you don't like them personally it's like you're ignoring the fact that well the majority of people do and the definition of beloved is you know let me what definition of love is yeah because if matter of like it's not even down to necessarily whether cosmonaut likes joel it's just he's setting up like this to support his argument that he's constructed for this game yeah it's like people don't like jesus it's about what people like it's not what he likes or even their character necessarily it's just if people as a whole like like the character that's what it makes a beloved character yeah like i'm not gonna that's that's that's literally that's cool he is a much loved person it loved to a significant degree or loved by a lot of people a much loved much loved person i feel like much not seems like could be interchangeable between yeah two of them yeah because he's both by the way you'd have to make a strong case to suggest that most people don't love joel oh he is many loved by much people definitely he the thing that i think a lot of people found so appealing is that he's like a fucking rock and he's chipped away by this this innocent girl who just looking to have fun in a horrible world and then you eventually lose you'll you'll sacrifice anything to help her yeah that's that's some that's some adorable shit right there like really gets people's hearts quickly and they make they make ellie like an actually endearing person too so that you're feeling that along alongside him like she's kind of annoying at first and then she'd be you know she's breaking him down but at the same time she's breaking you down too yeah she um she's incredibly hard to lie it's hard to dislike no sorry whatever the point is that it takes a while for it to get to joel it's not quick especially with giving you ammunition and she's saving your life during combat encounters you're dealing with a guy that's you know uh attacking you and he's um he's grabbing onto you from behind she jumps on his back and starts you know shaking the shit out of him she throws bricks and bottles at people when you're out of ammo and almost about to die so you can get the the advantage on them it's like uh also a silver groove just uh oh grove just just highlighted people are mad that joel died that's it also joel isn't even beloved yeah what is it i'm so upset that this character i hate died this character i didn't care about is a beloved character joel is a f**k Winnie the pooh i hate Winnie the pooh god damn much i'm gonna s**t about Winnie the pooh deep love for Winnie the pooh i'm sorry especially considering what Winnie the pooh is doing in china right now like he he's like you look at how how china is reacting to Winnie the pooh and what all of his horrible actions as the dictator in that country i don't know who's who's your everyone i guess while we're on the set who's everyone's favorite character from The Hundred Acre Wood i mean does anyone have a favorite character i like uh i like um tigger more than uh yeah i love tigger and rabbit way more than winnie the pooh i like piglet more than winnie yeah Winnie the pooh is like the the pooh is like the mario mario series you know is more it's not mario it's Luigi it's Yorkie it's bowser it's wallowigie it's someone else it's not mario um or like do the do the the movies count like the videos count because gopher is pretty f**king great yeah i remember gopher gopher is good it's awesome he may not be in the book but oof i'm probably gonna go with um i like i like uh i like rabbit he's sort of straight man you know trying to keep it all together trying to keep things you know i bet he's put he puts up with a lot of stuff i bet there's a lot of love in that rabbit to put up with all these people you know uh he's just trying to get by sticks around uh then probably kanga rabbit is like uh the squidward of winnie the pooh and that you become he becomes a lot more relatable the the older you grow you know oh yeah he's like man this dude is trying to keep it together he's trying to grow carrots he just wants a nice house and he's he has very attainable simple goals by the way yeah like because he's he's putting them against he's putting joe against winnie the f**king poo like i don't even know so the the idea like because it's funny because i'm willing to take it on i'd be like yeah so why do you think people have a deeper love for joe it's like because he's far more endearing as a human being he's incredibly flawed and he shares a lot of the same values that people do winnie the poo i mean he's like he likes he's a friendly dude you're like all right good for you man but like joel's a way more like deep character i think that i love walter white more than i love winnie the poo yeah say like love character absolutely i he said he was saying something about violence here this is the thing he's like he's saying he's not a beloved character because he's violent i well let's that doesn't love to let him say his thing first i guess quote a beloved character joel is not a f**king beloved character he's saying i worry just let me see her please in that clip yeah okay not not what i would have chosen to make this point but okay the poo is a beloved character joel is a violent anti-hero there are scenes what does that have to do with whether he's beloved why is he doing that um why is he killing this guy i guess deadpool is not a beloved character then what the f**k we can name this is so this is all contextual as well this is a world where people have to be violent in order to like to stay alive this isn't where a place where winnie the poo would thrive what about rorschach these people f**king adore rorschach like joel is not virtuous but that doesn't have anything to do with him people about woman the joker like the joker's psychopathic chaos ridden f**king monster he's below the star how emotions work him f**king the sky up and like hmm why is he doing that is i think he i think he thinks to be beloved is to be appreciated for your altruism or something like pure altruism like there's nothing negative about you because winnie the poo has wonnie the poo ever sinned in any way shape or home winnie the poo is like winnie the poo is without any reason to be well let's look at this then like if you're going to take it on like having a flawless personality and being altruistic like is rey a beloved character not really but she she exemplifies all the virtues that cosmonauts apparently looking for luke got really mad when he was fighting vader i guess he's no longer beloved he he failed once so you know he's not he's not good anymore not every beloved character is captain america like you can be flawed and still be a beloved character it's just a matter of like if people want iron man you know winnie the glutton oh god winnie the dawn winnie suffered gluttonous tendencies that he had to overcome i mean what are what are we were we did the um the efab not too long ago about lord of the rings and favorite characters for america pops up all the time incredibly flawed beloved this is what i mean like this is such a weird focus in this video like what is all this in aid of stopping so sad that he's dead you're like what what does somebody meant to do about that i don't know sad like he's in the first game where he murders people just because he wants to no no no right here is not the scene that you use to say that he just kills people because he wants to he is trying to save ellie's life you fucking prick i'm yelling it's weird like just just to kill somebody when does he kill someone just for the sake of killing someone in the first last of us i don't think he does that once listen no there's no reason for the evil aspect of his character that we're told about is the fact that he would you would you would attack and steal from you know innocent people that's not even a want to kill so even like at the worst aspect we know of his character to want like what do you mean wants to kill no Joel Joel is just sadistic he just has this bloodless he just kills people because he wants to use the serial killer he doesn't kill for self-defense he doesn't kill to survive he just has this this is just this urge this primal urge to just kill he has to supports it though like this clip where he's interrogating this guy so that he can save ellie yeah he kills because he likes a terrible example he's told that ellie is being prepped for surgery there is a ticking clock time is of the essence he has he literally says i have no time for this and then shoots the dude in the groin like fuck like he had a reason for that as well there are you'll just come after her so he always kills him he always kills with a very pragmatic he's very pragmatic like um yeah scenes in the first game where he murders people just because he wants to i think a lot of people wrongfully believe that this is a story about how you have to protect your loved ones no matter the cost i'm curious what you think the story is about yeah he he has taken some strange things from this game yeah um i'm yeah hopefully he'll tell me what he thinks the first game was about i'm really interested in seeing his interpretation it's going to be like one that doesn't line up with mine at all but i am curious to see what he has to say about it Joel saves ellie because he desperately does not want to lose another daughter there is no point um he doesn't want to lose the first order either and both of those are classed as loved ones so what goes against that doesn't that doesn't count to what he just said he wants to protect his loved ones he doesn't want tests to die either like what are you yeah why how is that like selfish i don't know you're protecting people that you love like truly that's he says it like it's a flaw that he doesn't want to go for a daughter to die like okay i think a lot of people would want that but all right where he grapples with the morality of his choice he wants to save ellie he does not care about curing humanity this is a sad ending and not because humanity is doomed but that's a lot too unfair as well like to say that he doesn't care it's not you know that he might be deeply like conflicted about this but he does the thing that's most important yeah the game the game doesn't have like he says it like as he runs through the hallway shooting all of the um the fireflies doesn't say i'm doing this because i don't care about the cure more so it's clear that he values ellie's life over the potential of a cure but uh that was the beauty about the first game it was all very interpretable not anymore but because we spend the whole game watching these two learn to care for each other and bantering and joking and sharing personal heartwarming experiences with each other and now that's ruined forever by the last of his two well that's not really he's presented he's presenting that as a poor argument i think because i don't i don't think he agrees with that in her heart that joel is not telling the whole truth and that he lied to her face even though she told him not to okay i guess yeah lie is if anything the lie is maybe even the worst thing he does which is nothing comparatively yeah but but i don't like this this framing that she's like fucking pissed at him for lying when i this whole scene runs so clearly to me that she knows that he's doing this for a reason and that she's uh agreeing to it almost she's like very well 100 it would take a cosmic retard to wake up in the back of his car in a fucking hospital gown and be like everything went fine he's like yep everything went fine yep yep moon's haunted like hmm seems a bit seems a bit weird seems like you're not telling me the whole truth nope i am 100 telling you all of the truth you would have an e trust me you're like all right i trust you guys because of the adventures we've gone on and how much i know you care for me now she has some guys the thing they're very specific about this because she doesn't go okay and then walks off she goes okay like yeah i get it you're lying but it's probably for a good reason that's that's it's this is why people like this ending so much just fyi it's a very specific delivery of the word okay look at that face she knows what's up and because of that she can never really forgive him again there's virtually nothing heroic in this story at all this is insane if all of you aspiring film critics and game reviewers out there if you don't think that you have enough talent to make it big i promise you fucking do yes anybody can become a big youtuber like you can you can get this big while being wrong all the time it's just pretty impressive it's shocking it's just like it anybody can for better or worse anybody can become famous and yet people still see joel as a hero if ellie had it her way she would have died because at this point she is not a selfish person she's making an extremely ill informed decision also based on conjecture of anything can't use the last was to canon to explain that's how last was one canon is actually 100 we don't know what have happened if we'd talk to her we never find out we've got information to believe she might have been willing to sacrifice herself she also wouldn't be ready to to commit to something like that we don't know for sure and i don't think she would had you explained all of the variables to it i don't think anyone would it's essentially asking you to fucking kill yourself you'd be like uh why it's like not really any reason it's a very low percent chance that anything good will even happen the the gall of this person to make arguments this retarded and then to title his video you guys are just dumb from her perspective joel took the choice away from her and now this didn't have a choice there was no choice to take away they took the choice from her yep it's she had absolutely no choice so the choice is either to have her die without her consent or save her life without her consent and to fight in the preservation of life is always going to be the more moral decision in that case the information that he has he's such a shitty youtuber that he can look at the stuff joel does next to what the fireflies have done and like yeah joel's the bad guy like that's how that's how detached from reality this person is probably people like joel even more is the fact that this just everybody's throwing piles of shit on him and he's like all right if that's you know i got what i wanted which was saving ellie i guess i'll take the slings and arrows at this point like man you're a legend just gotta ignore all the you know the context all the information and visual cues that were given to you know imply that maybe the fireflies are actually the villains here it fucking blows my mind that he's considered the one who took the choice away that's so bullshit it's nuts what do you mean you stopped us from operating on this girl without her consent that would kill her can't believe joel took her choice away that she didn't have i don't think that any doctor worth their salt would be willing to operate on a senior citizen like a like a hundred year old person without their consent to find a like a definite sure shot cure for covet 19 well does it make sense that they're like trying to gun him down while he's running with her at the end of the last of us isn't that pretty stupid of them yeah it's pretty dangerous yeah if they truly believe she is the cure to humanity you'd think see this is what i mean and it's funny because you either i guess as long as they don't hit her in the head oh sure i was just gonna say like you can interpret that as like plot holy or you can go the direction of fireflies probably hoping to make it a power play and they don't actually like have any intention of fucking curing the world we don't know they have the audio logs that are like oh this will be so great for you but it's like how though like how are you there's so many unanswered questions about that doles traits the game opens with her learning how to play guitar like he does and then we also see her become more comfortable with killing like he was she was always comfortable with killing did you play the first game yeah like there is behind there is a play clip that i saw on reddit where she is chasing after a dude like he is running away basically shitting his pants and she just sprints after him he disappears around a corner she disappears right behind him and then you just hear the go the guy going ah and dying because she's like stabbing him to death like i know that's like that's a gameplay that's probably subjective and doesn't happen in most playthroughs but i don't know man she seems comfortable if she's programmed to do that that's still her in the world absolutely yeah the only the only exception you get to this is that scene where she returns from having tortured um one of her friends she like considered everything else she's done up until that point the fact that she had to torture one person it leaves her traumatized is just a weird and one weird choice that said yeah the bitch got what he deserved like oh okay yeah i'm not gonna feel dude like when i was playing i was like all right your life doesn't matter and i just like chased after her with like all right come here come here and i got you and i relish in each time i tap square in the scene i mean i i i'm just of the perspective that this is nonsense to me like it's like the first game just doesn't fucking exist um and some people referencing the david kill has been proof that like she has trouble with murder or whatever but it's like it's clearly not people off until that point in that sequence it's clearly not the violence of david's kill it's the uh how close she came to possibly being raped how she was trapped and set to be eaten by the rest of them at some point and the fact that she's alone and fighting for herself for so long i see that scene it chopping him up into pieces of meat as like oh my fucking god like this this is stressful it's a whole situation is very stressful out that for a lot of players that was one of the most terrifying scenes in the game so the terror that the player is feeling ellie would probably be feeling that a thousand fold yep what to say she kills like 15 people in the mall and left out she didn't have any problem with that and it's it's because they were trying to kill joel like that's that's why she killed them and she didn't have any problem with that so yeah we see her exacting her revenge in the same way as him except it takes a toll on her i personally oh and i'm sorry i forgot mauler during your playthrough of the first game she is carrying on a casual conversation with you and then she just kills two guys while in the middle of that also uh killing for revenge like joel did joel have a kill heal for revenge in uh in the last of us uh no well okay so um so he like breaks robert's arm for revenge okay remember we're beginning this is where he's interrogating the two guys to find out where ellie is and he just kills the second dude you know just like yeah it's okay i believe him but that's not really revenge that's that's not necessary i think they were i just had necessity yeah they were complicit in ellie's kidnapping they were gonna they were going to kill him it's like uh yeah it's i i'm fine with him doing that also it looks as if mr drinker is gonna have to abandon us leave us to the the pain that is cosmopolitan i know and you've got like another 12 minutes of this shit which will probably take five hours of talking time i was gonna say i feel bad about leaving but considering what we're having to suffer through i don't i'm assuming you've seen tonight's fucking highlight i seriously doubt we're gonna be able to someone's gonna outclass joel is not a beloved character it's like okay he kills for no reason he kills because he wants to kill people he's a monster that's what he is oh i really i just realized that the uh description doesn't have people's channel's names and just links in it why did nobody tell me oh that's your job i'm at joel yeah i was i was mainly referencing joel when i said that for you no worries uh yeah do you want to even though you were here relatively recently and everyone knows exactly who you are why don't you talk about your channel and what people can find over there yeah you can find a bunch of stuff about movies and tv shows and i also tried to make things better that are broken and i've been working on that recently and i'll try and make the occasional recommendation for movies and stuff that i really like so and there's the occasional live stream uh and i've had you on most of you guys have been on at some point i think um but yeah so that's what i do and i have a few drinks in between so it's been working out quite well for me so far yeah i even cameoed in your recent fix trying to warn you of the dangers of talking about rey it takes a long time and you you did an excellent cameo so thank you for that um and i tried i tried my best to fix rey as a character which wasn't easy yeah thanks for hanging out man it's been uh it's been what what do we call it fun let's call it engaging it's been engaging it's been an experience and uh for sure just like what i do oh yeah but yeah no thanks for having me on and i'm actually gonna watch this like oh boy but not best of luck and i'm gonna go away now see you catch you dude bye bye oh wait a minute all right wait can you guys not hear me and then there were five and there were yeah wait the track can hear me but you guys can't one second window this is no good here we go it's hard to believe that we're like not even a quarter of the way through the material yet i oh yes well i'm kind of smooth at the beginning we were saying that joel is not a beloved character deserves quite a bit of time to refute wait sail like you start saying stuff like that it's like oh okay let's let's break this down because we're going to be here a while there's no reason i wasn't being picked up by disco but now i am so it's all good oh yeah yeah it's funny it's a technical issue that you guys are unaware of but chat was aware of how weird is that oh my goodness wow oh my god so anyway let us continue personally love i love how joel's death has consequences for every character it's handled wonderfully but people are mad they're mad because you don't kill abby and get revenge in the end and i cannot understand that at all you're an idiot if you let alone it's not about even if you don't agree with it the fact that you don't understand it shows how dumb you are unable to empathize which you think that you'd be big on if you know the whole rags hang on moeller chat saying that audio keeps on going out oh my god i mean i mean everyone press one if fixed press two if still tizm let us see the results yeah i suppose we have to keep on talking while we're waiting for them to press one or two because yeah talking then we won't know if no audio issues are fixed and we gotta make sure that's the case because i don't want to be all these pearls of wisdom dropping mostly ones but someone said nine so i think we should stop streaming oh okay well we got the nine the big nine okay all right sorry rags i didn't want to keep on going while you're like breaking up or something but go ahead and continue i guess um yeah it's just the ability to like one of the i guess i i want to call it basic but one of the fundamental aspects of reviewing stuff like this especially in terms of story if you're talking about how they relate to audiences is understanding even if you don't agree you can see where people are coming from surely you aren't thick in the head enough to not be able to understand why people really really want to get revenge on abby like even if you don't agree that that's the right thing to do surely you understand why well you have to be pretending for a second and he's like well why do you want it and then i go uh i don't feel justice was really served to this character i feel she got away with what were heinous actions created in like a context that she had no idea about according to the game for the most part i feel like we not only didn't get to understand get we didn't see a scene where she understood what she had actually done nor do we get a scene to really punish her for horrific actions and if someone cites all the horrible stuff that happens to her that's irrelevant of joel i'm going to go ahead and sweep that away i'm not going to listen to it bye bye going on a crucifix has nothing to do with joel she's basically uh the karma houdini trope and like embodied pretty much like um it's one thing to have a character get away with all the horrible stuff that they've done the problem is that the game is trying to frame this as a good thing yeah like kylo yeah basically yeah i don't see how it's hard to understand why people want justice served or karma to make its way to abby um i suppose you can make an argument that karma kind of did but the problem for me is that she never understood why she did the wrong thing why what she did was fucking wrong yeah it shocked me they didn't have some kind of a discussion at the end or something there's briefings in the game where she seems to be experiencing some guilt over something and a lot of people like to say it's over joel and i'm just like i don't know i don't really know with with her not killing abby at the end what you need to do is you need to have a conversation so you can have dialogue where they talk everything out that's the solution that's like you have ellie making abby feel like a piece of shit for doing what she did and then letting her live and saying yeah now you gotta you gotta live with that you gotta carry that shit with you all your friends are dead i'll carry that knowledge with you go on get out of here you'll never live it down you'll be sad for the rest of forever just like i am asshole get your boat there's some people in chat that are comparing her to gabby gabby we should call her abby abby abby abby oh my god she's like abby gabby just like just like gabby gabby she's worse than hitler right rags yep worse than hitler in the words in the immortal words of boogie at least hitler was doing something he believed in oh yeah james more thank you for reminding me of the joke that i said before we went live i'm surprised that cosmonaut is able to empathize with abby without knowing how much money she has oof yeah that's a good point you can tell she's not that rich but then again relative to the world nobody's rich so she's rich in resources at the same time burritos every morning man yeah why the fuck do i care about his struggles yeah she has a gym that she can work out in she's apparently got access to uh to protein shakes and gets those gains it's like i feel like that takes should haunt him forever if ever he's like you threw him in salt it's like who cares you're rich yeah uh yeah i mean he's rich so i don't give a fucking shit like he said you've covered my videos several times so i should be like well you're rich so is that it's sorry for you no one's gonna feel sorry for the rich person yeah fuck the rich at the end of the game are two we really shouldn't feel bad about um about tony stark's family they're rich we shouldn't care about bruce wane as he's inside the prison that is possibly escapable by design he's rich oh he was actually so there's more reason to we have more reason to to feel bad for bruce because he doesn't have his money we shouldn't feel bad for him in the dark night when he loses rachel he had money rachel rachel abby and get revenge in the end and i cannot understand that at all at the end of the game our two protagonists have this crazy final battle and as ellie is drowning abby she flashes to an image of joel and it yeah instead of choking that bitch doubly hard encouraging her to finish the job here's the thing if now normally when you are uh you're holding someone's head underwater you're choking them and you're holding their head underwater so they can't like breathe they're gonna probably drown and choke at the same time and you get a flashback to the person who you are avenging because this person that you're drowning killed that person killed someone that you really love and they've also just bitten off two of your fingers you're probably going to be so angry that you're going to finish the job in fact i i said this on the other stream but i would actually become a lot more sadistic i would probably let abby's head out of the water for just a couple seconds and then i put her right back under i would prolong the shit i'd be fucking playing around with with her like a cat plays with a an injured mouse and i'm just i'm stunned that anyone can empathize with this happening and and think yeah the sensible thing for this person to do in this context is to just let her go that's where you're wrong kiddo because when she sees that flashback she realizes that all joel wanted from her was forgiveness and forgiveness is a powerful thing and that she should provide it to abby because abby is suffering well wouldn't it be great if this was actually an arc that we saw develop over the course of the game and not happen at the eleventh hour i mean it's it's pretty hilarious that this game simultaneously crosses off all the options for the first game in terms of interpretation but then ends with like a scene that basically is like what do you think happened it's like uh she thought of joel and joel's force ghost is like no why did she think that like why did that memory all of a sudden come back to her she's choking abby and then she thinks about joel playing guitar it's like where did that memory come from and why did it stop you it's like they don't explain that first i thought this was just some cliche way to remind us that oh no joel wouldn't want ellie to do this but later we see that she was actually flashing back to a very specific scene where joel and her are talking about forgiveness and i would say that that's the thing if anything this means that she would know that abby's the person who robbed her chance to forgive joel so what a juvenile fucking take on forgiveness everybody should forgive everyone like what no fuck that shit justice well it's weird because um when i watch this scene the the immediate read should be oh ellie's not is mad because she's been robbed of the chance to like you know fix this relationship like that's why god not just like forgiveness good yo like i don't know like the the idea is that mercy is like the foil of justice you can't have it all one way if mercy is the delaying of justice it's not enacting justice right so this idea that you should be merciful to everyone you should be nice and kind like no drown that bitch i especially in a world where um everything's topsy-turvy in terms of systems to be able to account for any kinds of justice it's like individual justice or even small pockets of societies and stuff um but the part i find i guess even more interesting is that it's often said that like you know think of the themes like we've been doing the dealing with this for years now just the themes trend does anyone ever say like yeah the characters are shit but it's more about the world building yeah the world building shit but it's more about how good the plot is like themes always come in when everything else sucks it's just like yeah but the themes yeah yeah i love i love the implication that ellie only remembers about like the the value of forgiveness as she's in the middle of drowning abbey so what if i said this on the after party stream and then i say it again what if she uh decides you know what i'm gonna take abbey prisoner i'm gonna drag her back to my little uh serene peaceful farm that has no zombies attacking it whatsoever over in wyoming and i'm gonna keep her in a little shed and then i'm gonna keep her in the in the in the barn you know and then every few hours or so when i feel really pissed at someone and feel the need to forgive them i'll fill the bucket of water and i'll make my way out to the barn i'll be like abbey it's seven in the morning time for your morning drowning session and just hold her head underwater until she remembers how how good it is to forgive people my god i feel like my more fundamental problem with i guess the assertion that he's making is that it so the fact that ellie lets abbey go to me is not necessarily a problem but it seems a lot more absurd when you remember how many people have died up until this point who were not directly responsible for joe's death yeah yeah like the most game is the one who goes free yeah it's at that point it does it doesn't make sense to me that she wouldn't just commit to see it through yeah there is this aspect of just one more that comes into play and especially when you get the variance man it's ludonarrative dissonance the game forgets that it's a game in which this is all happened but you could possibly excuse it if ellie knew her really well like personally she understood the struggle she understood the decisions but does ellie really know much at all about any of it yeah this is what i mean they never have the discussions yeah i feel like if they if there is just a a point where maybe maybe uh you know she flashes back to seeing jules smashed in head and maybe she instead of like telling abbey i can't let you leave or throwing her down to the water or something she could just say hey can we talk for a minute like can we just talk about what's happened between us just choking back tears and saying why why'd you do it i have to know i could believe that if she did that because it seems like she's certainly willing like willing to let abbey go at that point maybe he has taken pity upon her after seeing how she was on the pillars but it's very weird to see her wanting to have her dead and then she decides that she's going to just let her live after having her fingers bitten off and she's holding abbey's head underwater and is about to kill her like and is having a flashback to the night like the last conversation that she had with joel that would also just be a reminder that she was robbed of the chance to forgive him i don't know i could i could have gone for that ending too that's better when just brought up as well and this is part of another problem ellie's like the only one who's like i'ma go and fucking hunt down the person who killed joel and beat the shit out of me and tommy and despite joel having been a part of this community to the point where he's apparently one of the most important killer protectors of it that no one else wants to come except people who are like ellie you shouldn't go alone i guess like nobody nobody's invested in joel to the point where like i want to avenge him well he didn't he didn't save any zebras that's why when abbey takes her posse like everyone's there everybody wants revenge i'm just picturing like even just making a fucking cool story you have like a the local butcher is like joel's a fucking legend okay son you know son of butcher you take over butchering i'm gonna fucking go with this team like joel is one of my closest buddies and then like it's my boy the taylor's brother or something who who fell on some hard times and joel looked after him joel taught him how to shoot he's like yeah i'm going to loads of westerns do this it begins with like the town you you ruffle up some some people who are like invested in in what's just happened some people came in did some things and left and it's like no we're gonna go get him you have your little fellowship instead we get dina and ellie it's like only two people who give a shit i guess except tommy but he leaves mysteriously on his own without this weird shit what are you talking about character though she's she's so great she's got this amazing personality let's bring saff let's bring saff along and we can even have some drama saff is like i'm gonna fucking avenge him too i like joel she's ellie's like having this uh this meeting with the town like okay i'm going out and i'm gonna try to retrieve tommy but i could use some backup who's with me no one no one raises hands except for saff and he's like he's still feeling bad about about calling her a dyke he's like fuck i'll make you some bigot sandwich i would see it they can make it a joke do you guys remember shoulder the dad when uh the end like the last time shorn and ad talked to each other is a relatively light-hearted thing a couple of references even though he's dying you could have saff's bleeding out and he's like i could make you a bigot sandwich and she like giggled like you're like aw good job good job you made something cringy kind of funny i want i want the redemption i want just for saff saff yeah saff doesn't need a redemption i'll just be a hero he's like he and fat garrel team up chainsaws spinning around just chopping them all up you know what i think it's time for a profile picture change so many options and yet they went with the shit one the game ellie has to learn how to forgive joel for what he did and then she has learned how to forgive abby so no this is not a he did nothing wrong no he did nothing he lied though yeah okay story about revenge it is a story about forgiveness which is much no it's a story about revenge it's definitely a story about revenge yeah yeah bad things happen happens you don't go all the way from this scene when is like the idea of forgiveness ever reinforced by the game like not even when dina and ellie are in their farmhouse together dina never appeals to the concept of forgiveness in order to stop her from going out yeah it was like very pragmatic and also like i like how ellie has to forgive but abby doesn't get like she should just forgive joel again this is the huge problem of the game abby kind of gets away with it yeah and you again people gonna be like no she didn't know she got just like how about her she got away with killing joel that's the point um yeah the others didn't get away with it yeah no i the others got the fucking hardcore just desserts i suppose for being complicit in the sadistic torture and killing of a person that they didn't even know was fucking a wrong doer so yeah they got what they had come in but she didn't and she's the one person that we would want that for and he's like i don't understand why you'd feel that way it's like oh okay i just don't how do you he has no ability to understand people at all he's just like a weird psycho you get you can't have money and he can't he can't understand you it's just oh fuck me then if a psycho not gonna lie that's how it comes across interesting to me if you got to this scene and you thought that the best narrative choice is for ellie to kill abby yes then i truly cannot fathom how you consume stories yeah yeah we're not dumb man you're just you just don't get us you do not understand our perspective and you cannot empathize with the people who are criticizing this game that's a pretty calm one if you're him yeah go ahead just i was just gonna say that this perspective is pretty common it's surprising that he has no idea how to empathize with it yeah i was uh let's say something pretty similar is like if you're making this video and you see that everyone is super upset about this like pull a couple of them to the side and be like why do you feel this way because i don't feel this way and i need to understand why you feel this way because i'm making a video about it he's like nope i am correct i don't even need to understand why no i don't even have the ability to understand why people feel differently than me he's like wow he come across as a bit of a psychopath honestly can't get down on our level man because to me this was never a revenge story i never saw it that way then i have no fucking clue what to tell you like this is let me let me explain to you how it's a revenge story um the the opening and citing incident for our protagonist is someone taking revenge on someone and then she spends the entire game taking revenge slowly on the entire group that did it to her and then someone tries to take revenge on her and it's stopped by and then she starts to take revenge once again on this person and then stops doing it um the big faction wall that's happening in the other side of the campaign is all fueled by taking revenge on on other actions that are made this is a story of revenge i don't i don't know how you missed that it's got revenge everywhere to the point where when we were watching it and playing through it um it was just like it's so on the nose it's pretty yeah like there's a scene where um abby's chilling with their bodies and they're like oh remember the truce how did that end well they killed some of our guys but we killed some of their guys but that was because they killed some of our our guys it's like it's so obvious what you're doing so wow someone said it's a revenge plot it's like it's a revenge story they're making points about revenge it's not just a plot line that's involved and besides it's several several plot lines are getting digged in as well as all the little notes you pick up about different stories we're taking remember oh in story the fucking seraphite was like i'm just done with it man like i don't want to it's enough of this sort of thing it's like oh another perspective about how revenge just it's not as satisfying or violence in general which again if someone said it's a story about violence i'd be like that's fair violence revenge forgiveness you can throw them all in but to say it's not about revenge at all i'd be like uh that's fucking nuts the forgiveness aspect comes up like the 11th hour and again it comes out of nowhere like there's nothing building up to her forgiving jewel it happens at the finish line it's like it's about family and that's what's so powerful about it amazing abby both suffer immensely for the things they've done wrong abby takes revenge on joel and it causes all of her friends to die then she's tortured isn't her to die note note is a little bit of a difference other people dying not the same as her dying i like yeah i like that it's it's her problem that they're dead not their problem that they've been killed she's cosmos fucking big ass brain man he's a wrong music critic i like that difference he treats him as characters as much as he should probably because they're all paper thin he's people who says like the real losers of war aren't the men who get killed it's the wives who lose their husbands is like yeah that's that's cosmonaut that's him he says that when we see her in sadababra she's pretty well adjusted it's not like she mopes around because of all the damage she's dealt to her friends and co workers or faction leaders because of her decision to kill joel so i mean the joel aspect of her decisions barely weighs on it at all she doesn't see the death of her friends as her fault because she killed joel she sees it as abby's fault ellie's fault sorry ellie's fault yeah yeah ellie's fault for not appreciating that she could have had a happy life because they let her live yeah we we killed your your loved one in front of you but we let you live you should have just let us off the hook right there for that ellie loses her fingers she loses uh fucking everyone that she loves uh tommy her relationship with him is fractured forever for sure so is her relationship with dina and you know her ability to like raise a kid i mean what does ellie have at the end can she at least play the guitar oh right no she doesn't have the the fingers necessary she doesn't even want to like flip the turn the guitar over and play it left handed you know uh whereas what does abby lose she loses her hair she loses her gains she still has lev yeah but she could still get her gains back and her hair will grow back yeah exactly but fingers can't grow back i mean unless in last of us three they want to retcon that too they might as well right yeah why not i mean a couple fingers is way different than in higher segments of the plot yeah what a shit video really something i can't fathom how you guys consume stories and enslaved for months and literally crucified when ellie starts okay so first off enslaved for months boo fucking who uh two right i don't think you know what being crucified is like it's kind of in the name it's a jesus stick though it's a jesus stick it's not big not that if you were actually like given the nail treatment she'd be dead as dad dead onia yeah but instead it's ellie seeking revenge that leads to abby survive that's weird i yeah we said this earlier i'm not i'm not buying it you can't tell me stuff that happened to irrelevant of joel is justice for joel it's like nope besides they already said that like he said joel was a bad guy anyway so i don't even know it's it's like if if someone kills a loved one of yours and it turns out that they died 30 years later of cancer it's not justice no not really the important part is her understanding why a knowing all like it doesn't who care like if i fucking you know save a baby from being torn to shreds by a guy and shoot him in the head and someone takes revenge on me for that i'd be like why what's what's the issue you know well it turns out that baby was actually just a cuddly little toy that had bomb inside it was going to kill everybody and that guy was trying to deactivate it and you killed him and then that bomb went off and killed everyone i'd be like oh wow i yeah i can tell oh shit you know there's there's none of that in the game and it's because the game doesn't realize that killing joel wasn't actually justified or at least not in the simplest of terms the um the scenario that i came up with about like how joel ambushes this family and kills the dad and is hunting the the mother and her kid and it's like you know that very well could have canonically happened even though we're not shown that but the fact that he dies to abby that doesn't mean that there's justice for the horrible thing that he did there you know what i mean he didn't die because of that action he died because someone got mad that he killed her dad when she when he was going to operate on a 14 year old and kill her in surgery without her consent i need that scene where she says you killed my father and it's like he threatened to kill me and he can't say my daughter but he may as well would you ever wonder why did you ever stop for one second and ask yourself why he did that i need you fuck it she doesn't know if he said he threatened to kill my me and my daughter what does abby say back to that well i don't care it was for the greater good joel it's like greater good like i don't give a fuck about it that's right we don't even get that it's the most basic exchange we don't even get it oh and yet you get all these reviewers who are like yep joel evil ellie suffered for trying to take revenge abby wins this is good like what the fuck you stupid old man yeah that helps doesn't it trying to get revenge it ends with her having absolutely nothing she's left with no one and i really like how both ellie or abby ellie ellie because abby's ellie yeah i guess she's got dina sort of well no dina's gone dina got got her hands on a u-haul and was able to get all of her positions we saw a letter from dina's parents dina's parents must have taken it back home and been like what happened with that girl after it's like now she's a bitch and like okay and then ellie's gonna turn up in a couple of months or whatever to this house and they'll be like oh hey um you're like is dina here and they're like no please leave i hate that you were describing what very well could be the opening it's probably the case where dina go if not there would be jacksonville right yeah probably jackson oh really she'll just bump back into her when ellie inevitably goes back to jackson the last of us part three it's gonna be really endearing it'll be all about dina we'll control dina dina and it's your choice at the end you press x to forgive then your videos be like i do not understand anyone who didn't press x at the end of the game the game is about forgiveness that's the thing you say jokingly i hope it happens now press x to forgive adventure in the last game for instance joel makes a selfish choice in the first game that's insane that's not selfish but okay the selfishness of saving someone's life at great personal peril to yourself i'd be curious to know what your definition of a selfish act is include he treats this as though ellie has talked to joel and said i want this to happen to me i am okay with this it's like that didn't happen i'm sorry i love that the game didn't have that happen because no one can say it happened all right last was one didn't go down that way you have to retcon it if you want that i think that like the selfish thing for him to have done would have been if he just simply killed that one firefly so he grabbed his gear and then he just gets the fuck out of the hospital that's the selfish thing to do that's him not risking his own life he just simply kills the one dude that he has to kill so he can get his his ship back the stuff that that belongs to him by the way that's rightfully his and well think about what was going to happen so they walk you out into salt lake city with no guns and nothing what what is that if not a death you know like a death sense by exile yeah like if i was if i if i was to theoretically take away wilfred brimley's access to high quality low cost diabetes medication delivered straight to his door then that would be more than me just taking away his possessions everybody forgets like what happened at the end of the first game it's unbelievable and the game in this game really wants you to forget what actually happened well they do yeah they want to recontextualize everything they are walking him past the backpack they are not going to give that to him they're not yeah because why wouldn't i give it to him not he was just going to use it to kill him which you know they could they could just say okay we will give this to you when once you're out of the hospital yeah that would have made a little less like okay they're not totally assholes or they would have just lied to him about ellie and what they were gonna do they were said yeah we're just gonna run some tests um well something they could have done like anything else like i said it's like they followed point for point specifically how to appear yeah exactly it's so bad selfish decision my ass game and it damages his relationship with ellie forever no arguably this is the thing and i don't think it did in the first game this is the problem with canon like so if a lot of us two theoretically came out and we got um you know flash forward by a year and she says look it's on my mind i get it something happened back there i need you to tell me what it is and he explains all of it into the detail not necessarily what we've been over but at least mentioning a lot of the significant points and like she sighs they have a conversation about it all and it calms down a bit and then they move on and the story itself is not going to be about that you could have that you could have it so it's never addressed again literally the last of us two could have been about anything didn't have to be about this but because that's what the last of us two is that means that that's what the last of us one was you know i mean like they've directed in one direction therefore that is what the last of us one was which is like oh by the way i watched um a review i think it was writing on games he's talking about the second game and what he likes and doesn't like and he says that uh he released a video in the last of us one like a month before it came out but it's pretty obsolete now right because yeah this game has now made that the case yeah your analysis of the first game is probably fucked by the second game you know what the the moral of the story between both last of us games are this is how we win not saving what we love forgiving what we hate at the end of this game ellie makes a selfish choice by leaving dina it's very selfish to try and get closure on your ptsd it's like it's a blessing that she's out of her life apparently if you open up the journal during the section it becomes clear that ellie has been trying to talk about her trauma with dina and dina doesn't really want to talk about it and then you have this scene here where she throws joel's name in her face to try to manipulate her staying she's dismissive and she's like she's like she's wooing her at one point like no no stay and then she like kisses her it's like it is horrible like it's like dina you you are coming off as completely selfish in this scene it's like yeah that is not a good scene at all wreaks of total emotional manipulation like this is the one scene well like one of the only scenes in the game at least where dina seems to get any type of character whatsoever like any sort of agency any sort of conflicting desires but she is a total asshole in this like i wait in this scene yeah in this scene i'm saying that one of the only scenes where she has any type of character right where she is actually contributing any sort of conflict that's driving the story or whatever and like this this makes me going from thinking she sucks she's bland she's boring i don't care about her to i actively hate her to dina to dina why here because she's throwing joel's name in ellie's face to try to stop her from getting closure on her ptsd i definitely don't i i think what dina is doing is extremely understandable and i don't feel bad at all for dina here like she i totally understand why dina would be doing everything she possibly could to keep ellie here because like they have a relationship they have a life they have a place they have a kid together i i think it would be weird it would in fact i would put it against dina's character if she said oh yeah go get her on yeah i guess i'm totally on dina's side well kind of i i'm in the middle on it i i i get that she would want to condemn the action of going forward with it but um to abandon it afterwards weirdly i i guess it's it's that she's weirdly unsympathetic yeah to uh to why ellie has this problem like she treats it as though it's like i can't even understand why you would be feeling this way where yeah i do understand well it should be more like i do understand why you feel this way but yeah it's the warning that yeah people at one point she's like i put up with all this like for us like for the family and it's like wow she didn't get out of her yeah she got the shit beaten out by abby yeah yeah i mean she should just appeal to the facts like it's a suicide mission and what are you really going to achieve by doing so and then you have the back which is that she can't rest until this is sorted this is ended and uh i think we could have a lot more interesting shit than just having dina go all right then fuck you i'm fine with her trying to to make a case to make a plea to ellie to stay but it's the fact that she just throws jewel's name in her face like that and yeah i guess uh what do you think she threw it in her face for you know so she's trying to say that people just die you know people don't plan on dying it's like yeah yeah like it's kind of a miracle we didn't buy before like we we shockingly are still alive like no prince or luck i don't know yes it's it's pretty amazing the the shit that they survived in this game like if i uh if i were ellie or dina and and i had gone through what they went through and magically survived i'd be feeling pretty confident plots gonna take care of me i i think i'd feel the opposite i'd say man i came that close and it was through sheer luck i survived i can't rely on that to happen again i mean it just goes to show though the fact that this scene is it could have done it could have been done so much better fits in with the rest of everything about this game like everything just could have been done so much better basically yeah the problem is characters don't talk to each other they talk around each other all the time is more plot discussion than um well yeah goal and value discussions and information context like no that's really is way more focused on what's next what are we doing next like the like for example why do you think they spared your life wow really interesting question i don't know fuck them oh yeah maybe they're dumb get revenge but it damages her relationship with her forever this is the level of story telling that i want from this series i love shit like this i like oh well i hope you never make games i just i hope you never make games i'm i hope you enjoyed this can we never have it again i'm glad you got what you wanted can we please never have this again i want every game to be hated by most people i was like okay themes that permeate throughout the whole story i remember when the first game came out and people were furious that you had to kill the doctors and make joe do the bad no you didn't have to kill the doctors yeah also you didn't have to kill the doctors plural just the one yeah and you can still shoot him in the foot that's still an option and he's threatening your life yeah he's threatening the life of you and ellie i'm sorry so the people who took issue with this were okay with you killing all the other guys i'm i'm pretty sure that he is just making this shit up whole cloth i don't remember any outrage over having to kill the doctors or doctor at the end of the game wow i don't either i mean maybe we're all just on a faulty memory but there's always gonna be remember that some people i like i said i just i don't know how i could i could i take that seriously let's just say someone's here right now being like the one thing i hated about the last of us was that you're forced to kill that doctor at the end and then you go do you know did you try shooting him in the foot and then they'll say no because otherwise if they knew that they know they didn't have to kill him secondly you have a problem with killing him but not all the other people in the game it's like yeah but the other people are trying to kill me i mean this like i don't know this guy's got a deadly weapon pointed at you and he's about to kill ellie i feel like this guy is basically yeah i mean i because what is what is the implication it's like walk away and allow him to kill ellie or just let him kill you and then kill ellie or kill him also internet history just said he'd be neither of a severe reference if the internet historian doesn't remember people complaining about this up in alms and i don't know what to say look uh yeah i i don't remember it and i don't really see why they would be that upset maybe just a little bit but no i don't even know i look i don't care how many zebras this man saves if he is going to see this this arm to the teeth dude barrel into his operating room and his response is to grab a scalpel to try to defend himself with a scalpel against a guy that's got a flamethrower a shotgun uh a fully automatic rifle you know it like i mean natural selection is going to take this guy out sooner or later just saying fire an arrow into his toe i should point to get at him and say listen fuck off oh i might have been out of context his story was talking about something else i don't care it's it i don't remember this neither does he i'm sure of it moving on thing but that's the shit that i love i actually really like that these games don't give us a lot of choice don't ever make a game ever please make a movie at this point dude uh the one medium that's perfect for using player choice to tell a narrative i'm lying that we don't choice i'm glad we just like uh it is a little heavy handed in some scenes but oh just a little bit some scenes it's a little heavy handed i'm the kind of gamer that prefers it when i have no choices i just want to be told who to kill and then i do brains 100 cosmonaut this series is not about us the player it's about the characters what then just okay is there any reason why a story that does have characters can't enable you to make choices yeah it's a character is he suggesting that every everything that ever has a choice doesn't have characters you know mass effect doesn't have a character everyone is you yeah it's baffling to me it's like it's it's like this guys the least qualified person in the universe to talk about games and movies and he's doing it and people eat it up it's it's baffling like what do you want just to you just want a movie it sounds like it sounds like you just want a movie i'm tired of you guys saying this is less than a 10 out of 10 it's 10 shut up did you see the scene with a dog kneel avert your eyes and ears they don't know what they're saying if ellie gets attacked by a dog and almost dies she will kill the dog to survive i will kill the dog to survive yeah and i will kill a dog to survive if i gotta i mean you kind of have the right to beg since you're a dog yourself you have a you have dog killing privileges it's just like i i expect anybody to do that but that's so low tier for this example that i like how it's implying that this is a choice you choose to die what a shit example i don't know well that's the thing it's like who would choose to die this scenario why would you choose to die i don't understand could you imagine mass effect having in the auction shoot that enemy shooting at you or stand still and allow the bullet what is this point like i want to hear this a bit more context why i'm so confused it's a little heavy-handed in some scenes but this series is not about us the player it's about the characters if ellie gets attacked by a dog and almost dies she will kill the dog to survive you don't get to spare the dog because ellie wouldn't spare the dog what you can you can't you don't have the option to spare the dog if you want to live presumably if you want to live the dog is dying yes technically what but then i'm going back a little bit further to the first part how come the first game is super beloved if it's not about us but people still adore it also here in this one is like the opposite and he referenced the difference that like you have to do the same horrible thing in terms of making a choice that self blah blah blah just like well then how come everyone's reacting completely differently to this one compared to the first one what's going on and how come we don't have the choice at the end on whether we want to spare abby or killer like it's it's it's the if the whole thing ended in a choice the player could make not only would want everyone kill abby but too we'd have the choice to do it but i just so he's he's this is all fucked up because you know like i think what he's referencing the actual argument when when say for example um let's say say joel did everything the actual example would be joel did everything he did in the end of the last verse and you sit there going no joel wouldn't do that because he had to kill so many innocent people i i don't think joel should have done that i and then you we would be like well just because you clearly think you wouldn't do it doesn't mean joel wouldn't do it that would be the perfect time he's referencing a time where a dog tries to eat your face and you stab it with a knife as a tiny low tier i don't understand i feel like 99 of humans would have done the same thing this is not much of a moral choice like you or the dog it's like well most people probably want to survive and the dog is clearly the aggressor this isn't some kind of like you know stale sterile sorry uh setting where you have to just end a life yours or another this is the dog has chosen to try and end your life no the only way to win this game is to just like not press square and just let the dog rip your throat out that's that's the end of the game such a bad example of what i assume he's talking about though it's like just because ellie would uh you wouldn't do it doesn't mean ellie won't so i would expect not only ellie to do this but myself as well yeah the disconnect comes from all the other parts that the characters don't do what we would do did this connect comes from choices where there was a reasonable disgust like there is actually a decision to be made like a real decision we as an audience have become far too comfortable with the idea that our choices are the one thing that matter in video games no it's it's context specific it needs to whether or not a character will make a choice whether or not we will make a choice it really depends on what we're dealing with yeah if you have characters constantly making decisions that the player is actively against and doesn't want to do and doesn't want to play through you're having an issue you're going to create a lot of disconnect between i mean it's going on yeah i when you watch our like the old bungee vid ox on halo they'll often say like yeah we made chief of blank slate on purpose because it makes it easier for people to connect with him and it's the whole idea that chief never does anything that you wouldn't do and she never takes any definitive action outside of gameplay like every action is something that you do or aligns with what you do and then it makes it really easy to play but if you're playing a game where you hate the character and you don't like any of the decisions you're being made but you still have to do them in order to make things go like yeah it becomes really frustrating yeah people you're just building bad will against the game the players don't want to participate in the game where they have to participate that's going to cause a lot of friction so the the the other way you can do this by the way is so it's fundamentally right we we we'd be like wait if you think a character is going to make the choice and how can you have it so the player can make the choice because whatever you choose may 50 50 end up being something that they wouldn't have done canonically right according to you and i'd be like so the scenario is something like killing abby could you see ellie feasibly killing her or sparing her based on whatever circumstances and that you could leave her in the hands of the player to to consider what they think is right and before anyone rushes to saying like no obviously naughty dog believe fully that ellie would spare abby i'd be like no the original ending was that she killed her so they clearly weren't sure about that and i think that if they'd left it up to the player it would have made for much more of a poignant ending for a lot of players i think so having her take revenge and then come home to everything being gone i feel like that works infinitely better than what we got yeah because here yeah it's like it's uh it's the whole idea of generally you get the revenge and realize it wasn't worth it or you abandon the quest for revenge and then retain what you have here she abandons the crest for revenge and loses everything it's the worst yeah she gets nothing either way she gets nothing yeah you don't it's not like revenge at a great cost it's no she's at the it's she's at the lowest ever been cost yeah my takeaway from the ending is that well if i'm going to lose anything everything anyways you know if i go for revenge i might as well commit to it and you know commit the deed once i'm at the finish line might as well because it'll certainly feel a lot more fulfilling than just you know pussying out i mean it's you know it's a whole like sunk cost fallacy right but the sunk cost fallacy exists for a reason most people are susceptible to sunk cost fallacy well what about like you strip the skin off someone strip by strip and it's only on the final strip you're like this wasn't a nice thing to do i'm gonna stop like wow so how chat said um what if the character is like well no rags what if the character is supposed to be a bit of a villain like and breaking bad so if you're playing the role of a villain in a story someone can be the protagonist but a villain but have motivations you understand and even can connect with or if you're playing purposefully an evil faction or an evil person in a game to live out the fantasy of you know being evil you know that's fun in a lot of ways but when you have a situation like in the last of us two where if you're putting yourself into this character shoes you still wouldn't do the things that character is supposed to be doing and you disagree with the direct on the nose messages the devs are trying to give you as a player that's where the huge disconnect comes in and we're also getting into the the weeds of role playing almost because you could play the game be like i'm gonna play according to exactly what i think this character would choose or i'm gonna play according to what i would choose if i were in this position or i'm gonna play as a psychopath and just choose all the negative options whenever i can find them just to see what happens or altruistically or chaotically like it's really down to what the players running along with what the context of the choices are what the game is like there's so much to this instead of just going some people think that their choices should supersede the characters choices like oh and if if you go by what he said what cosmonaut said here it's not about the players it's about the characters well then that means that you have doubly much reason to have what the characters are doing make more sense if you remove the players out of the equation then man you better be super solid with that character the the in-game yeah pretty much pretty much because you ain't got anything else you pretty much might as well actually just watch a playthrough of the game rather than play it yeah it's the point where you're the first off of us we're removing the interactivity benefits and i don't know why it's just people were totally on board with jolyn ellie in the first game like yeah i i me as a player it's not really about player choice it's about you know role playing as these two people and doing their stuff and they're doing stuff that yeah makes sense to me i totally understand it if i was in their shoes i'd do the same thing totally down with it you can't use the whole player choice it's not it's about the characters not the players and last of us too because the first last of us was beloved no i hate it at least like at least like the first game the choices that you can make aren't going to be overall consequential like the the guy that you um that you run into in the tutorial his gas mask is broken and you can choose to like leave him behind or put him out of his misery like that's overall not going to be too consequential and you can just save the bullet just so that you know you can um like again there's no reward to put him out of his misery the reward for not killing him is you keep the extra bullet which might be important um but i can still say a lot about the kind of person that you are if you decide to uh to kill him at your own personal cost and there's also of course the kind of invisible choice to just shoot the doctor in the foot um and yet last of us two doesn't have fucking any of us what you mean it's small is the kind of thing that you'd be like let's build on that but instead we revert we get less goes thinner this time goes on just like uh yeah like what are the differences just look at it it's so easy when you look at the fact that the first one the second one are so similar in the way that they try to do things but the first one is beloved the second one is reviled what's the differences what do they do different you know i actually notice uh here's here's a clear difference in the first game uh when you're at the dam and you create the little bridge with ellie uh she offers you a high five at the end and you can choose not to give her a high five but everyone goes for that high five because they love ellie at this point you know but there's the option to uh to totally um just leave leave her hanging right in the second game however there is a room that you cannot progress past unless you play fetch with a dog and you're supposed to feel bad about that dog uh from earlier in the game well if you don't play fetch with it how are you supposed to feel bad for it exactly it's such great video game direction some games really benefit from taking choice away from the player to contextualize the character's role in that world yeah um there are certain things that you could say you'll take away from the player as being a choice because you need the story to run this way the character would do the thing um but when you're trying to teach lessons of morality in your game and then you don't let the player contribute whatsoever and see the results of their actions at some point you're just like so what what are you trying to do what's what's the point here you just want to preach but then of course the preach lessons get very confusing because they counter each other in this game but he's you know he's not wrong there there are formats and elements in certain narratives where you can't let the player choose for a certain thing which is why we've been advocating that um at least the end just give us that one choice at the end it seems perfect it seems so set up for a choice and this is where you i mean i feel if you're really confident that you did a good job at doing what you tried to do give us the choice and watch us spare abbey but you'd know we won't fucking do it because you did a bad job if you were allowed to do a pacifism run of this game then this scene would be absolutely ridiculous no it wouldn't no why he doesn't he doesn't get it he's already said he doesn't empathize with it at all well if you were able if you were going through this game and you didn't kill anyone who was actually responsible for wronging you and only killed the people who were like what's the problem with that that sounds pretty good i mean if i had the chance to do that that would be a pretty nifty thing to go through i mean think of narratively the the effect that would have on you know abbey and all that and ellie and all that like man wait what's the um um i'm so what we just saw uh what i just sent there is from your playthrough mauler and then this is from cosmonauts video i just well yeah if you go to abbey's perspective in my playthrough ellie is holding the other pistol entirely not neither of those revolvers is that one is did you upgrade it and it's showing the upgrade for a longer barrel is there a longer barrel upgrade for the probably like i said the more interesting continuity issue is that abbey has her throw away the the other pistol which is the pistol she ends up with shooting her with in the following cutscene and that continuity can break based on i guess it's weird um and you can't call the unreliable narrator on that because it serves no purpose at all there's nothing it's just a why would you unreliably say what gun she has listen what gun a person is holding is subjective okay oh no problem that i have with metal gear solid five in that game you are playing as a bad person however you can go the whole are you without killing anybody but at the same time the game is still gonna treat you like a bad person oh well here's the problem with metal gear solid five like i i don't you have to know a lot i guess you have to know a lot of previous information because i had yeah that's why i was legitimately asking because i don't feel like i was doing bad stuff um i mean i did a non-lethal playthrough i generally do those are more fun more i think from what i understand the whole idea is that metal gear solid five is meant to be oh this is why big but this is like big boss's descent into villainy that's what the story is meant to be but again i don't understand metal gear solid five at all yeah i don't know anything that was going on i was just playing it for the gameplay really yeah i the story was super confusing and i was just kind of along for the ride myself um really like that mission where you have to you know kill all those guys as a command this is oof poor guy i'm glad to do a pacifism run of this game then this scene would be absolutely ridiculous no it's similar to a problem that i have with metal gear solid five in that game you are playing as a bad person however you can go the whole game without killing anybody but at the same time the game is still gonna treat you like a bad person so there's kind of a disconnect i'm not how does the game treat you as a bad person is that true yeah i don't know enough like i yeah someone who's really some some weave in the chat tell me about the metal gear game and how it treats you bad because i played through it and a lot of obvious is a memory but i don't feel like the game treated me like a bad person more to the point if you're gonna ask me hey would you rather have more options in gameplay if it means a little bit of ludonarrative dissonance it's like yeah i think i would rather have a more fulfilling gameplay experience everyone in the chat is saying that you it doesn't and i don't remember doing that either so i'm wondering what he's talking about because i did a week on context with this one yeah i i remember you don't have to kill a lot basically anybody no you can go non-lethal basically for the whole thing except for a few specific instances i think yeah um and i was non-lethal basically everywhere i think you have to blow up some tanks here and there but i mean if there no you don't you could hoist him away yeah that can then maybe become part of your army yeah that's what you do you can fault and extract the tanks and stuff um but for the most part yeah you could be super non-lethal um and you even feel like super shitty about having to kill your own guys when you do um and you don't really have much of a choice and really emotional um and you don't shoot the kids you know that's the whole meme is like the kids you can't you know be lethal with them stuff like that people are saying uh people are mentioning and i i think i remember this yeah the the the rock that's sticking out of your head it becomes longer and sharper if you do the wrong like if you kill people so yeah that was a thing yeah yeah so there is like some kind of morality system um yeah so he's when gathering here is that cosmonaut is lying i don't know i i feel like it's more likely that he's just had a strange interpretation of what meddling like i'm much more willing to assume that his interpretations are just bizarrely wrong as opposed to very incompetent malicious he's not the tool you need for this job to really empathize with how viewers uh sort of experience each of these things and why behind all of these things are these scenes doing that for a viewer like and he's just not very good at this he's never never been very good at yeah i don't i can't that's this is why i can't rely on anything he says to be honest like the fundamental of being able to repeat to you know like like act as a conduit but the thing to then project what the thing was to someone he fails at that part like really badly i feel like if you can't get that part right you kind of fucked not doing bad things in the gameplay but the story doesn't really care and it doesn't make a lot of sense people are upset that you are forced to do mean things as ellie but this is not a nice story and are we is that why we're upset so i've heard this argument but it's a little bit more specific than that they're saying it's frustrating that in her campaign you do a lot of stuff that you'd more so associate with like a person of dubious morality while as abby you're doing exclusively altruistic things yeah and it's because of their super transparent artificial way to try and make abby look like an angel exactly which is at all the fucking scene that we introduce her to the entire game and everything that it does makes just it makes it so apparent what's happening and it just completely makes it it like makes it so difficult to engage with the game and the story like earnestly you know what i mean like to accept what it does without being like i know why you're doing this though so you kind of lost me doesn't feel like you're playing the game it feels like when you do it like the writers want you to feel this yeah that scene happening over your shoulder just like oh good good good you did what we wanted you to do it's like well i didn't have a choice yeah i guess yeah well yeah i mean more of the character doing it than me but all right and the idea of the game at the end of it is like don't you see abby's just human and ellie who she's on a path to the dark side it's like well yeah but you made these things happen like yeah i don't believe for a second that this isn't character for either of them when my when i was introduced to abby i was like damn she's a sadistic fuck and then you play her campaign you're like wait who's this i don't know this person yep and then in reverse you're like wow ellie in fairness ellie's more stupid than she is sadistic she just doesn't she makes those stupid decisions regularly throughout your campaign the idea that is it evil that she killed this dog that was trying to kill her like no i mean you guys were the ones that put the dog there and had an attacker so what do you want me to say one of them kills dogs the others plays fetch with dogs well except when abby kills other people's dogs yeah but those which i'm pretty sure she does ellie's not a nice person and i have a lot of friends who can't finish the game because it makes them miserable and i think that's fine this one is not for everybody it's not for anyone fuck it this yeah this game is not for you oh god this scene the scene that makes the fucking sense at all yeah if you're a if you're a utilitarian who thinks that it's okay to scoop 14 year old girl's brains out without their consent this game is definitely for you for people who hate joel if you hate joel and you think he's a monster like you will love this game that's that's what if you hate joel and ellie you will fucking love this game this was tailor made for you mad and furious because a game makes you do evil things you want you are not showing you're missing the point he's not showing an evil thing right now this is the wrong visual you are you are you are killing someone to prevent them from killing you and your your girlfriend what are you doing with this visual it feels like he's so much missing the point though like that's not the main problem people have is that like ellie's decisions are just so mismatched with what the player's expectations are of like what she would do what she ought to do is really stupid the biggest meme about this game right now is don't you feel bad and i think this is kind of silly no the game is like the game is so in your face about trying to make you feel bad about things that like i keep saying artificial artificial artificial this feels like a game that someone is crafting for the express purpose of making me feel things that i shouldn't feel it doesn't feel like an actual world with characters in a living universe the dog the game forces you to do that and it's like why did it do that it's to make you feel bad that you stabbed it to death and it's like in my mind i was like the dog was trying to eat my face off that's why i killed it playing the the the the bit where a pregnant woman um who has a gun fixed to her decides to attack ellie with a knife and ellie kills her in self-defense and then feels bad because she killed a woman that she did not know was pregnant and the game is uh supposed to make us feel horrible meanwhile abbey was going to purposely kill somebody she knew was pregnant good remember yeah ellie's the evil one ellie's the evil one and i have to i have to compare this to spec ops the line in the white phosphorus scene when you're first playing through it you don't know that those soldiers are well the interesting thing with the white phosphorus scene is when i was playing it i knew that the uh that part with the civilians i'm like wait wait hold on what is this like i i got the i was like oh no there's something wrong here with this part but you can't progress in the game unless you are finished that sequence so that's what i mean like spec ops the line i do really like but it has a couple of those moments where it forces you to do things sure but i'd say like at least the character of walker is going to oh i think let's put it this way i think spec ops the line works a lot better because there are a lot of instances where the game won't tell like i feel like the most obvious moment is uh when there's that crowd of civilians around you the game doesn't tell you like what to do so what you actually do kind of set is like it kind of cuts deep depending on if you do the right or wrong thing there in that sequence mm-hmm yeah yeah i i just i i felt um when when playing through that scene that was a like a pretty believable reaction to doing something like you realize was going to hurt a lot of people he's just trying to clear out an area of enemies that uh he believes will kill them you know and uh i don't know man i i buy that reaction a lot better than i i it's probably worthwhile to know like i buy i buy the reaction and i buy it in character it's more just that i immediately recognize that there was something wrong with that particular like part because i identified ahead of time like oh i see what you're gonna make me do here you know the only the only choice that you have in spec ops i think they make a pretty big point of this is to just turn off the game which is really a choice well that's that's the point of the game isn't it yeah somebody said i can't help but spoil dude if you didn't play spec ops the line it's been out for eight years sorry like yeah i should have played it right now if you wanted to and you shouldn't be here on and talking about the last of us too and they're both very similar games we're talking about this same thing this game's been out for like a month and a half now and people have been comparing it to spec ops the line it is honest to god your fault if you have not played the game at this point how long do you expect us to wait talk about any video game about an eight-year-old video game you can try and talk around certain things and older stuff but i mean it's not on the person if they end up spoiling it i would say unless they're doing it on purpose like say for example someone goes i haven't seen that yet they go oh ha ha fucking oh yeah ha ha yeah it'd be like oh that's kind of an asshole move but i'm just assuming that everyone here has has played the game i guess evan hasn't because he's uh he's not a gamer well i haven't but i have a total understanding that people will talk about it i'm fine with people you're like i'm not going to be angry at other people because of that i have a general idea what happens and nice ball tetris uh the blocks get to the top and you lose no people have so much hope until you tell them that you fuck if you didn't feel bad then maybe the post apocalyptic drama narrative isn't doing its job but the sentiment is also really silly apocalyptic doesn't mean it has to be depressing there's there you could absolutely make a post apocalyptic game that is extremely hopeful i mean fallout 3 one of the first post apocalyptic games that i played has a very hopeful ending you could have a post apocalyptic setting for like a little farming game you could just be the it could be stardew valley but post apocalypse i mean the um in fact just a second um fallout for oh the fallout for a theme song that plays in the menu is called like rebuild renew like it's very hopeful and optimistic see i haven't played fallout but i'm not going to give a shit about spoilers here i mean it's the it's the name of the main menu theme i don't think i'm spoiling that much i just well i remember there was some dude who was like you spoiled mass effect three for me because you told me that serberus and the bad guys in it it's like but they were they were they were introduced as the bad guys like shepherd goes the whole game being like y'all are bad yeah serberus are revealed as the bad guys within the first hour i'm sorry guys why the whole point is that they're bad but they're doing things that are good are at least useful from your perspective your goals align good agrees is really stupid the biggest meme about this game right now is don't you feel bad and i think this is kind of silly that is if you didn't feel bad then maybe the post apocalyptic drama narrative isn't doing its job this could have yeah this story could have taken place in modern day and it the post apocalyptic stuff can be window dressing to a degree and the characters and everything could have been the same otherwise and it could have played out the same he's not addressing the actual argument though because it's so if i said to you um the game is having you you love the game in this scenario okay and you're like uh didn't how did you feel about all those scenes where uh you know you have to do a different thing and i go oh yeah i totally felt bad when it forced me to just keep killing people over and over and over again and then you go moeller it's a post apocalyptic game if it wasn't doing that it would be bad and i'm like no i'm not highlighting that i do feel bad i'm highlighting that the ways in which they executed it was incredibly cheap yeah i didn't feel it incredibly cheap artificial hamfisted in your face and thus it didn't work but he's wrong like he can't even beat the straw man because someone is actually right if they say uh oh yeah i was feeling bad in the post apocalyptic game which i don't want personally and he goes well you should want that in a post apocalyptic game it's like not necessarily we mean yeah like that's a funny statement isn't it from subjective man you're supposed to feel certain ways oh yeah they do this all the time in all of the beloved post apocalyptic games that we have fallout one fallout two fallout three fallout new vegas i mean even fallout four to a degree well contentious as it was all of these are very dark worlds with you trying to do good things generally you know you're improving the world you're making it better the stories about you doing good stuff i mean there's nothing about a post apocalyptic scenario that has to it doesn't have to be bleak and horrible and terrible it can be very light-hearted and it could be very you know comedic in a lot of ways i mean certainly fallout does that you know those videos where people are like fighting um a sign or a post or something like they try to punch it or like a little figurine a thing that like a mascot and it flies back and it flies into their face and knocks him over or something i just picture him erecting the straw man he goes to punch it misses pushes it and then it flips around and hits him in the back of the head and he falls over and it's like uh nearly had it but the sentiment is also really silly to me because the first game was just as miserable and it also made you do no no no you are not correct that is inaccurate you have he's playing a cutscene as well you don't do well it's the bingo card they play a clip that disproves their point not bolstering it yeah all he's only doing this because he needs to know some shit if a person can get most people were happy with this sequence by the way like i don't know most people are glad the Joel does what he does in this scene this is this is Joel putting Liam Neeson from take into shame with the torture this is fucking awesome i haven't got that far you do remember what Liam Neeson does right um what is what is he doing he shoots a man in front of him i i'm referring to what he puts the rods inside the guys like kneecaps and electrocutes him indefinitely yeah that was pretty rough yeah Liam Neeson ain't uh he ain't playing around i don't i don't think i saw that cut i think i saw a different one that's the unrated cut oh really uh yeah there's okay so the cut that i've seen he uh he puts the the rods like on the um the arms of the chair instead he doesn't do anything to the guys kneecaps and and the uh the cut that i saw it might not be his kneecaps it is his legs for sure though he stabs him in his legs i oh yeah people saying that's an alternative cut i didn't know that i've only ever seen that cut hey it's subjective as to where Liam Neeson put the prongs okay interesting but no um i didn't like taking all that much hot take i don't think taking is very good i don't think the first man i think it's quite good i think it's awesome i think you're wrong i'll kill you i don't know i i i rewatched it uh like a couple years ago and i was like uh i kind of cringed through a lot of it the whole maggie grace the 30-year-old teenager a lot of the action is uh not very easy to make out although it's not nearly as bad as taking two and three all right i don't like two and three i don't think anyone does no i mean i'm just saying that that taken one it like i don't think it's action is good but certainly a lot better than the sequels i'm trying to give it credit where credits do all right um but yeah the scene uh is not like you're doing bad things it's like well he needs information on how to save a girl from being eaten alive potentially these guys have the information so they tried to kill him as well so i guess it comes down to your ethical position on torture uh when is it okay when is it not do bad shit against your will it had a lot of moments where joel was forced to murder if you think this game is bad because joel died then i really want to know how you feel about other stories like this why are you focusing on these people that i've i've never seen these people yeah they're always more special you keep saying like this it's like use examples or like at least try to support your points a little bit or understand what's going on rather than just saying people think this way it's like really do that it's like okay yeah maybe someone out there somewhere that i can't find and never hear from and and explore them on it they're probably going to start referencing things that aren't late related to his death more so how it happened like the string of coincidences that caused it to happen yeah i i highly doubt you'll find many people who who will say that there is no possible way that i would ever like joel to have died regardless of any context no matter what it was you will get people saying like uh i wanted to play as him this was bullshit i'd be like well there's some relevance to that in the marketing as well as he's the protagonist of the first game and games definitely have a sense of carrying over characters and stuff but i would be like i mean you can totally empathize with that right that doesn't have to be like an actual structural flaw you could just be like yeah i can understand you wanted to play as joel for longer and that's independent from joel's death you could not play as joel and he could have still survived yeah this is what i mean i feel like if you were to really dig into someone's reasoning for why it's bad that he died it's probably connected to something other than his death no country for old men must be a very hard movie for you to watch and i'm not trying to compare the two of them i feel like he's comparing that guy to joel it's a non sequiturist fuck that's like taking a tiny element apart from a big poop stew and being like this tiny element was inside this other meal and you're like oh how dare you hear that film's name i'll just say something like this that's big and takes a lot of exploring to prove the points and they'll just say it like they don't need to qualify it at all like he needs to qualify that statement before just saying it saying this story is flawless it has huge problems there are a ton of things that are actually really stupid in this story and i don't see anybody talking about any of them well he doesn't see anybody talking about any of them huh i'm curious about what his example is in the last of us then or learn anything about what these people are i i i hurried through the game at an easy difficulty to rush out this review and i just don't see many people talking about this stuff i'm curious what if we've covered the examples he's gonna bring up let's say for one the pacing in this story is fucking awful we've definitely brought that up juicy there immediately after joel dies we ruin all tension by making ellie and dina turn on generators and laxadaisically ride their horse around the city looking for treasure this game does not make a good first impression and like i said it doesn't make any impression that's good yeah none of no impression opening scenes in this game were not fun to play for me at this point i was ready to give the game a five out of ten i really was not having fun but then things start to pick up a little bit and i ended up liking it a little more tell me why as ellie's story kept moving i was enjoying it more bit by bit why we even have this really cute flashback scene with joel which you the structure of this video is more rambly than anything so the beginning of this was people aren't talking about what's really wrong with it number one the thing that's wrong with it pacing pacing is bad sometimes actually good this flashback is pretty good like wait what's going on where are we going yeah those are the bad things we do you're running away which breaks up the scenes of hectic violence but then this wasn't the only flashback and with each subsequent flashback i felt like the story wasn't properly balanced there's one flashback why is he taking so much time to explain the pacing specifically that's that's interesting to me because he doesn't take as much time to explain why something is good for any of the other elements that's because i thought he was going to list us a bunch of things in his usual fashion not actually list one and then actually explain it it feels weird to have something explained to you by cosmetal variety hour you know i guess pacing isn't typically addressed by a lot of people because it's very hard to nail down like the the basic formula i always try and use is the amount of progress be it mechanically or story for games per time spent it's uh very careful this this game really likes to drag oh yeah oh it is plodding it is outright fucking crawling backwards it feels like at some point which i feel could have really fit better as the intro tutorial of the game and then there are lots of flashbacks that don't serve any purpose at all yep absolutely i agree with him 100 on what he just said right there um especially the flashback where your uh it opens in the the ferris wheel um like on the ferris wheel with abby and owen like Jesus Christ um well that's um that's supposed to make you feel as though her and ellie share um because because i always took it because i think i mentioned it in the stream was she jumps off into the water and ellie jumps off the dinosaur into the water they she goes to the zoo and she's like oh my god a dinosaur and when when abby goes in she's like oh my god an aquarium i remember saying that dinosaurs do better than aquarium zoo because it is okay dinosaurs are cooler than fish all right i'll fight you yeah but like i don't know the oh i'm just saying that i think that's what they were going for not that it wasn't poorly paced sure get it abby and ellie are kind of similar we're not so different you and i oh my god i mean things get you by their reaction we stop playing as ellie about halfway through the game we play as abby and we see what she's been doing while ellie was going on her lesbian murder hobo rampage and when things first shifted over i was actually kind of hyped for this i was excited to see the things that i've done but in a new context but that's not what abby's story is abby's story follows a completely different plot that is oh my god i completely agree yeah yeah that's the thing you have no idea when he's gonna say something right i'm actually excited i'm just gonna fucking lie it's like yeah i completely agree with this please carry on 100% disconnected from what we experienced is ellie a big chunk of the abby plot is based on finding medicine for this one girl and then after hours of looking for the fucking medicine you give it to her and then she just gets shot by the main villain and then the main villain of abby's plot immediately gets shot by the girl that he shot and then you realize that he was so poorly directed by the way like well the first time i was so confused like he just gets shot out of nowhere it's like wait what then she's on the ground like well it's like blown up and then they just i guess i got like those three to four people just didn't notice that she was right there lifting up a gun pointing it at isaac all that she was alive like she would have had to have been able to process the situation before deciding to shoot this guy right so she would have had to have looked and listened and been like i'm gonna do this and none of them noticed her or heard her nothing convenient fucking matter anyway people like to say oh well since ellie didn't kill abby i feel like i wasted my time no dude this is what it feels like to waste the players time um both are an example of wasting the time yeah i'd say both like not a false dichotomy or they're both bad um one of one of which i would say i'd say the fact that ellie doesn't even kill abby is arguably worse because it just makes the entire journey feel pointless whereas this is like a detour that the plot takes for a couple hours at at worse it'd be one thing if this story was connected to the one that we had been playing for hours okay well so the way that the game feels it's connecting it is that the scars and the sarah sorry i always do that the the saraphites and the the wlf they're all battling each other on the core of a a petty revenge getting to bigger revenge getting to outward war right which is supposed to be i guess allegorical to the experiences that ellie and abby are having with each other and i think that's what the game is going for it's just a large scale so a lot of people would say that's thematically consistent and it's teaching you even more about this concept without being directly about these two characters that's i think the point is going for i just once again think that it bungles this delivery hardcore and we don't learn that that's the reason behind the the faction more um other than that really awkward conversation where they're just like they did it because x but x did it because why but why did it because x because y okay well yeah that that was all right all right well sure okay you know what would probably better is for as far as the wlf are concerned it's this big thing that this the scars did and fuck them and when you go to the scars they're like well wait but that event happened because you guys did blah blah blah then abby's like huh it's like yeah that thing whether you guys did blah blah and it's like oh that thing with the thing that started because you guys were like in our territory or something it's like that's not you think that's a good re you know like have the actual conflict instead of just it happened because revenge i guess oh okay what do i mean about like putting themes before everything else you just you know stories are great when i just want all the characters but it's not i have no idea why these two stories aren't connected in a more cohesive because it's a shittily written i almost said so close to saying movie video game plus the thing i think that it would have benefited to have actually given our perspective abby's perspective of all these days and to have it be that like ellie is fucking things up without necessarily realizing it in different ways maybe even related to the factions and abby's try to chase her and find out where she is and stop it from killing all of her friends seems like it would make a lot more sense than this whole journey like yeah when they were like oh you need to get medicine for the arm i think even in my stream i was like oh i hopefully won't you know take too long i'm looking for like i want to see what happens next it's like no that's gonna take you a while that is a long time getting that fucking arm medicine for abby's whole story she doesn't even know anything about ellie and for ellie's whole story she doesn't know anything about the crazy jungle cult this game is divided in half and the two halves have almost nothing to do with one another this could have been fixed by ditching this time hopping shit stop doing flashbacks within flashbacks it's i don't know that that would fix it you'd still have that bloggers wouldn't have the flash yeah your fundamental change yeah the flashbacks wouldn't change any of that i i i agree that the flashback stuff is a really poor decision for the most part um man uh if you just you gotta you gotta do a lot there's a lot of work to do messy and never works out if this game was laid out chronologically i think it would have been really cool imagine you're playing i mean i agree i think the chronologically would have yeah that's like the obvious kind of thing to say is like this this film almost does it no not almost this film does it exactly backwards pretty much playing through a part where you're abby and she's hanging out with her friends and talking to them and interacting with them and then immediately you switch over to ellie and you're forced to kill the people we just met and were acquainted with you play as abby and you hang out with people and then you fight them as ellie to get revenge i'd be more interested in trying out that structure than what they did oh yeah that would be i feel like i'd be saying like this was structured a little too deliberately by by taste like i'd be like all right so we're gonna kill this person next i guess what you know would yeah introduce like oh yeah here's why we're petting the dog okay exactly yes if you would have a case you would have come back and forth as much as you would if you did that but it would probably turn out better i mean i mean go for the simple vision you get the cut scenes and recontextualizing of the father i'm i'm not doing the zebra thing we're cutting that we'll do we'll do other ways of endearing us to the fucking dad fuck the zebra no other way then you build up through a couple more bits of her life you know that she wants to get strong she wants to fight she wants to be on the front line she wants to find she's driven by justice you gotta fuck up the people who are trying to destroy this world and then she gets a team together because she's got a lead lead that goes nowhere and slowly we find out this lead is all about joel i guess you can try and leave us a little bit thingy and then her fellowship that we get a whole bunch of characters all these people Nora Owen mel uh danny danny the favorite the fan favorite dad um fact gerald throw him on there as well have them all you know travel across defeat some zombies have some dialogue with them all and we get to know them as a team and then we get the scene at the beginning of the actual elosas too and it's less sadistic make it so it's hard for her to do it then we have ellie's campaign and ellie doesn't know it but we do all these people's lives so she's killing them all and also make them a fucking a bit more likeable don't have them go that little bitch got what he deserves like oh that's gonna oof oh yeah you you're you are so dead so rich better dialogue we could have had good thing this guy's not beloved there is like nothing that you could do to make me regret killing my character she's have that that was it for me i would love if i was alley in that star i'd be like do you know why any of it even happened you this like you have this much conviction when you have no context wouldn't it have been kind of cool if there was like an option to start dialogue with people before shooting them like you can opt to just go ahead and and start like attacking them or you could just try to trigger a conversation i think i got um yeah norah was extremely memorable remember when she did the thing and talked a bit once i mainly remember her for being the get out of jail free card for abby she just lets her go despite the entire wlf wanting abby basically imprisoned for going AWOL um a little bit of a non sequitur but we are talking about games and this might impact games at some degree so president trump has signed a pair of executive orders on thursday that will prohibit americans from doing business with bite dance the company that owns tiktok however um bite dance owns tencent whoa and tencent owns pride games lizard epic games tencent partially owns reddit partially owns discord and a lot of hollywood studios are partially owned by tencent i feel like this can't be implemented like half of all media is that one of those things where it gets signed in but no one can fucking implement it so it just doesn't happen i don't know um i'm very eager to see what happens as a result imagine they banned the use of discord for all americans it'll be fucking hilarious rags get it right again i don't know i'm i'm i'm eager to see where this leads yeah i doubt i doubt that would go the way it's possible yeah interesting oh yeah i don't think it will i'm just very very curious as a player you wouldn't know who's gonna live or die and there would be a lot more tension in this game whenever i saw somebody that we killed is ellie i was like oh yeah that's the dude we killed yeah yeah sometimes it was even worse than that i go wait is that one of the ones we killed and then i remember the beauty girl i i guess that we killed danny we didn't kill danny he wasn't the one that we killed i was like i'm pretty sure he's one of the ones with the horse explosion bit further interest in them as characters because i already knew it was gonna happen to them as it stands this game is incapable of making us care about anyone who isn't ellie or abby no it's not capable of those two as well it's drained my care they're they're not exceptions my care for ellie was just sapped throughout the whole game and then as for as for abby had i never cared about it they tried they sure did try a lot of angry gamers don't even like abby and i can't even blame them because abby's half of the story is not fun to play i can remove the large chunks of for me not fun to play on sections a lot more fun than ellie's section this is it's really weird how we're saying this game isn't that bad while saying that half of the game isn't very fun to play very strange things that are all pretty big problems with the game and i'm like you seem to be defending it though i mean look at the title weird i don't know what his thesis even is for this video is it good or is it bad i guess it's not that bad but you've said half of it's not very fun so i mean at least half of this game is not that fun okay for a story and the overall narrative will be unchanged i also have no idea why we introduced another faction of evil murderers in the last three hours i girl they introduced a bunch of legends i'll have you know yeah chad chad legends the game these slavery marauders are actually way more interesting than the jungle cult that we fight for most of the game and i think i agree with that actually that's probably because yeah i think it's because we don't get like any time from the jungle cult's perspective yeah we don't really even understand who the seraphites are we get yara and lev but all of their information isn't really tied to the cult itself more so to just hey you know life in general these guys i mean this one scene with fat girl is more interesting character wise than basically anything to do with the seraphites um fringy what was the name of the um did you play far cry new dawn no i didn't all right joseph c the yeah the leader of the cult yeah i played far cry in far cry new dawn you find like the remnants of them like they're they're a faction um and you go into their compound and talk with a bunch of them and things of that nature and i was just thinking if you want to have the the hippie religious types in the woods like man i can't believe i'm doing this but new dawn did that way better not to shit on new dawn it's a totally fine game i mean there was a seraphite which is nuts in the last of us two for most part as a man i just everything that this that's kind of what all these conversations turn into is whenever we talk about last of us two we talk about other game all the games that did everything better everything everything the one accolade it can try and get is graphically amazing but that's already the world of console so at least i got that and if you ask me they should have just mixed these two factions together to create one threat that carries between ellie and abby's stories this is just another sign the cycle of violence theme wouldn't have worked yeah they can't why they exist to fight each other yeah like i don't even like it but even i would be like well dude now you're just changing the game fundamentally you can't you can't just do that oh no he can just do that well we want to do that but he's he's pretending as though the game is intact the game it's fine yeah yeah no don't stop it's just another sign of the game feeling really disjointed so yeah while i spent most of this video defending the story of this game it still bothers me a lot you've barely talked about this story there brats the surface i cannot say that i love the whole story in this game i love parts of it but there are just as many things that i think do not work i don't get mad when you kill a main character i get mad when you waste my time i get mad when story threads don't matter no i i am way more mad when you shit on beloved characters than wasting my time wasting my time even comes across as like well almost benign in the sense of they probably didn't think that this was bad pacing or they would have changed it or how they treated luke can't abide or how they treated luke what annoys you more oh yeah it's obviously how they treated luke yeah i can get over can't abide yeah it it doesn't come across as malicious they're just like here's a section is not much happens and stuff it's it's not like offensive to me it's just boring and incompetent yeah like i'd rather be bored than mad and see things i love be destroyed you know like i said um i kind of long for the days when sequels were as good as a kingdom of the crystal skull which is not a good movie at all just before chat rips into me for saying that that's gonna be taken out of context i know but i mean crystal skull you know has that ending where indy's hat is you know blowing across the floor and shallow buff picks it up and harrison ford grabs it from him and he's like no i'm indiana jones you're not indiana jones you know it's but in in in the modern day shallow buffs character will be played by a woman and indy would just let her have the hat if that movie was made today you know that's how it would end you forgot the part where she puts the hat on it doesn't fit quite right she doesn't want it and she throws it in the bin oh you're right yeah maybe maybe the idea of indiana jones was shit all along he was like i'm standing right here i don't care what who are you ray ray jones god yeah she played by daisy ridley one day main character i get mad when you waste my time i get mad when story threads don't matter and i get mad when i don't care about the side characters and then they just end up getting killed to shock me this death is not done for shock value it what do you mean so you're fucking wrong is specifically done for that that's like i'm pretty sure you can get that from the devs they're like the whole goal is to fucking shotgun this at you you're like whoa this is happening now and it's the whole point is to charge your emotions into abbey abbey has to die she has to die that's the goal of this scene i think they had it in the first two hours of the game it's to get it out as quickly as possible to shock the audience that's exactly what it's for it's it's like that gamble paid off i mean if joel had died like sacrificing himself to save ellie or something that would be one thing yeah a lot of people would have would have been fine with that this would have been like yep that's joel that's just what joel would do that's the joel i know and love and that's joel doing the right thing and i love joel and this is what he deserved and see this go out like a hero that's a cathartic send-off it satisfies this is purposefully unsatisfying and shocking hence shock value you know it reminds me of like if tlj uh actually went as luke agreed that he has to uh save the day comes to crate kylo and him ignite the lightsabers and he's like i have to defeat you for the good of the galaxy you have to be stopped and then he just like clash clash chopped luke's head off it's over we'd be like what and i'd be like that was clearly done for shock like this this and it's like well no is we're gonna justify it we're gonna explain that he was old retire you know have a theme about how you always expect your heroes to wear like well no but that's clearly done for shock like i don't know what what else to say this was obvious the the way it's filmed the whole like screaming screaming and then slapped out to his head they do the the saving private riot ears have been blown out everything's going to be a shock when a panda over to abby shooting joel in the leg that wasn't meant to shock you i mean you should have seen that one coming the ones that aren't shocking like slow explained and set up deaths um but even then you can have those people you're fucking done for shock value sort of things the whole point of the game is that you're not meant to know who abby is or why she would want to kill or who she was even there for up until that point yeah it's almost as if this scene is done for shock value i think that you could still have joel die in this manner and then sympathize with abby if for instance it's gonna be tough dude that's the problem i feel like you know right from the start people are against it i mean the possible action the ways they can be done hear me out hear me out don't have joel save save her life and in this ideal like flashback where uh he like ambushes abby's parents and kills her dad have him kill her dad in the exact same manner that joel ends up dying and then it's like okay well i would understand why abby would want to kill joel the same way that he killed her father i don't believe that joel would beat somebody to death with a golf club like slowly i don't know i don't buy that there's something that he would do maybe yeah i mean and even then like how far back are we gonna go you know that's kind of like the problem with doing it after the fact it's like nobody nobody doubts that abby is a human being it's just like that's the thing we set me up to hate her from the start we picture that as much as he would have done in moral acts as in he kills people to take their things i imagine joel was the kind of one that was like as little suffering as possible please that's true that's true so i i don't think that he would fall back into old habits or anything like that at this point i think he would actually he would just outright refuse especially after being a part of jacksonville if he had a choice to save himself or someone to take someone's stuff and kill them he'd probably be like oh fuck it i'll die like i can't deal with this anymore yeah that's reasonable um and of course i would want in all these edits i would include let's drop the line you stupid old man and let's drop her like her snarkiness with the whole because we have it's like shut the fuck up don't don't talk this needs to be a silent moment and you need to be shaking and upset because this is something that you does she even come across to you guys as someone who's been waiting for this for four years no she it also comes across to me is like i get to get revenge yeah as opposed to like she should be her emotions should be off the charts she should be like just fucking jittering all over the place this is him this is the guy yeah i feel like she should say so much more and there should be a conversation once again we lack a conversation when there should have been one explanations answers i want to know why the fuck did you kill my father i'd want to know that'd be what i ask like tell me why she's just angry she's just blinded with rage that's such a relatable likable character you don't get the feeling she's there for justice well compared to iron man in civil war when he loses his fucking shit he's not he's not like it's not pleasurable and it's not snarky he's mostly quiet whenever he's forced to answer a question he looks shouts and then oh that bit where uh he says do you even remember them and winter soldier says i remember all of them like civil war's keynote that should stop tear okay but uh yeah for the worse and good shit and that's the moment he finds out that that's the case abby's had four years to deal with this and then she finds out way ahead of time that this is the person they're probably going to be finding and it wasn't even her who it was someone else who had came up and said oh hey we got this lead that that's shockingly vague but it's it's a it's a lead to that thing you wanted and they fucking foolishly foolishly had gel save her life before this happened so now we're all just confused also worth the conversation about that is like i fucking saved your life like i'm imagining you're welcome so many missed opportunities i just want to make it clear by the way i'm not saying that they um necessarily should have had her kill joel with a golf club like this i'm i was just trying to propose a suggestion of course how we could make her sympathetic afterwards my ideal solution that i will present in my critique after the whole idea of your you're playing this unarmed uh woman trying to escape undefeatable npc antagonist joel is she shoots him in the head and it's quick and she explains why she's doing this it's like they fucked up on every level with this once again i want to say this ain't the right this ain't the way to go a spoiler free as i can but um how how a certain police officer or uh fuck what's the some narcotics i always forget the name dea dea a certain dea officer at the end of breaking bad uh season five or halfway through i guess um the way that scene is done very elegant in terms of an execution and still rushed it's still shocking in terms of just like how it goes but of course what you were bringing up is is how do we because this is a fun thing we like to try and do on efeb every once in a while which is how do we keep one element and fix around it assuming that someone wants to keep be bloodioned and bloodied corpse of of joels like how do we get to keep that and do everything else the same way it's like okay we gotta and i think one of the fundamentals we have to actually alter is abby's character she can't actually be as uh as good of a person if you want to have that happen yeah i mean if he's got to get beaten up like that they are screaming at like he's not giving up where ellie is he's not giving up something you know that sort of thing then do that you know there it still involves joel being joel even in his final moments and it's super admirable and virtuous and incredibly brave of him they just can't make likeable afterwards that's the point of no return look at people rolling for me be the name of the character i was talking about i was trying to not name him that was the point chat weren't isn't this the same chat that was you know me for spoiling an eight-year-old video game you're spoiling a seven-year-old tv show now are you spoiling it for all the people haven't seen it yet rude it motivates the entire plot a shock of value death is one that we forget about immediately uh no not how that works at all what you think people are just gonna forget what they did to joel i didn't even forget what they did to jesse i was i was still pissed that they did that to jesse it's like i didn't get to learn anything about that fucking character now he's just dead he seemed like a nice guy but i mean okay i guess he's dead so i guess he's dead now he's like all right i guess move along he gets he gets like a much more survivable headshot than tommy gets any types yeah force goes jesse he's like hey i'm super i want to explore cosmonauts ideas about how what shock value is like and i think he thinks that if something's done for shock value it can't have more than that like it has to it if anything is done for shock value it can't have a simultaneous purpose i think that's how he's judging it and that's why jesse is just shock value while joels isn't because joel's death you know motivates ellie throughout a whole campaign i'm like okay but it's still done for shock value yeah shock value doesn't like exclude other things literally the way they film it where he's like y'all by the herd of his ideas and then the camera pans over to the shotgun boom that's your best american accent ever oh that's my i hate you joel who are you they've been fine-tuning it these last i sure didn't hope i didn't kill any of y'all's pawpaws earlier i was just i was just asked would you count the red wedding as having shock value it's like absolutely it doesn't mean it's not informed it's that shit is shocking as hell the shock value can't also be good because we're talking about a fucking cosmonaut variety our opinion well yes it's just such a weird thing to say like is those shock value and good her diametrically opposed matter and i get mad when i don't care about the side characters and then they just end up getting killed to shock me this you get mad when you're athletic about motivates the entire plot a shock value death is one that we forget about immediately why no no no we didn't care about jesse death because of the shock value death it's because he wasn't like very memorable or interesting because we forgot about him it's coming just sort of forget about him i mean he was shock value death motivates the plot then it's not for shock value or it can't be like because joel's death motivates the plot it's still for shock value but it motivates the plot it's also i would argue um we kind of like to get shocked in stuff and so as a as a creator it's um it can be useful to try and build your story and then be like how can we deliver some of these plot points in a shocking way or a surprising way or a subversive way do i say hate so much when people call a story bad when it kills a main character yeah i know i'm saying that i'm saying that i know you feel really fucking big brain is smart because you think that's what people think but they don't remember how everybody ripped into game of throne season one because of net stock they were like oh what a shit it's not like the season people stop watching after that first season they hated it oh the chat want me to know it was a joke that they were all saying his name was hank i mean it's a bit how am i supposed to be able to tell that all you were saying is they was hank you have to put emotes after it like laughing face or capa face yeah i will still like it'll still give it away technically but yeah it just doesn't make sense to me man it feels like the last jedi all over again it is yeah yeah like i don't know why but for whatever reason it seems like the last jedi created this trend in media where you just have to shit all over things and oh we say it's good we've spotted that one was the one that like made everyone aware of it to a to a really wide audience degree but before that we you know in two minute genesis still predates that is halo four right or is a halo five which one was the one i think it's kind of both no it's genesis and then halo five oh but they both predate tlj right yes yeah yeah i was supposed to 2016 nightmare media that's what we should call it there were actual real reasons to not like that movie but when it first came out people were just mad because luke skywalker dies you can keep saying this over and over it doesn't get more correct through repetition i don't i don't remember that really being the argument from anybody that it was he died rather than he for everybody was pissed off that he went out like a fart i think like not to mention he didn't really get a chance to act the way that we would expect luke to act and so there's a sort of bitter feeling of he's kind of gone before we really get a chance to see him back to his like restore to his former glory not to mention did did anyone bring up logon in regards to like killing off a protagonist there's loads of them there's so many of them so like that came out like earlier the same year that the last jedi did and everyone loved logon well it's it i we we cannot live in a universe where we're going to pretend like people can't deal with a character they like dying it's such a common thing in stories characters dying i would argue that a lot of us like to see deaths for main characters in kind of in a well i mean a good example like again spoiling spoiling 10 year old games everybody really likes red dead renemption and everybody really likes john moston and everybody really likes the way that he goes out we just brought breaking down one of the oldest stories known to mankind is the epic of gilgamesh and fucking inkadoo dies in that like i don't know what to say like people are totally okay with good characters dying in media it takes back thousands and thousands of years the iliad did the iliad die oh no yeah iliad died his friend his friend odyssey had to watch him as he died but yeah uh not many people i knew and in the same way with joel if you found someone who said i hated the last jedi because luke died like so what bothers you entirely it's like well you know that he died you know like specifically that he just died the fact that he died it wasn't anything else it was just the fact that he died it's like yes i didn't meet anyone like that not a lot i like chat like wow fuck spoilers because we can't kill a beloved character no we talk about his respect to beloved characters i don't know who he's talking to audience that he's invented that's what all this is he's like i don't understand your position these people are saying this like cross the hand positions which don't exist yeah oh yeah people reference in spider-verse again in the opening the beloved main character fucking dies yeah like he's the definitive spider-man of that movie everyone else is kind of like a different iteration of it but he's like that is peter parker dying it's like that's pretty shocking yeah we should have seen it already that's your fault you know if you told me like 10 years ago hey we they should make a an animated spider-man movie where peter parker dies in the first 20 minutes i'd be like are you fucking insane are you are you having the piss i mean the piss and then it turns out fucking great you having the piss are you having the piss i'm like i'm not british okay and that's definitely a british term are you taking the piss are you currently robbing me of my urine so yeah so this is interesting to me so if you were in this call i'd be like oh people hate it with the beloved characters are killed yeah he goes yeah they go because everybody always referenced the worst part of endgame was eye man's death right he'd be like well no i mean that's a heroic death i'm talking about when beloved characters have shitty nonsensical embarrassing disrespectful and i'd be like oh you mean oh shitty embarrassing disrespectful death yeah no you're right people don't like that i remember when i saw into the spider-verse i'm like oh are they gonna do to peter parker where they did to luke skywalker like a year ago i'm not sure if i'm into this and then the actual order they give peter b parker and how it ends satisfyingly and he gets back with mj is like this is this is a respectful treatment of the character i like this you know i i i left spider-verse feeling happy and satisfied and i miss being depressed uh yeah it's right no i feel like they're supposed to be miserable you're right revenge the best the best stories are not made to please you oh okay now real quick let's take a second to look at things from a different perspective oh boy let's go into an alternate universe the year is 2013 and the last of us one has just come out it features a doctor and his daughter in a post-apocalyptic world we're actually doing this we're actually trying to do i'm curious what his overall point's gonna be i'm gonna let him i'm gonna let him do this but i don't make a good point i'm expecting a point he's a doctoring but the world is decaying so fast and it's hard for him to recognize right from wrong then at the end of the story he finds a girl who's immune to the virus but he realizes that he has to kill her to make a cure and since the world is already looking really bleak he decides that he has to make the hard choice to sacrifice this girl in order to try uh some one of you might one of you may die but it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make exactly okay it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make i love uh john lithke was this fucking voice acting of that is so awesome aging dr farquad try to save humanity it's a tough choice but he knows that he has to do it because he is one of the last people alive who cares about mankind who cares about mankind fine okay fine so his pitch is that it all runs on the alternate like you get what he's doing the pov thing so let's see where he goes with this but then that little girl's dad kills him because humanity truly is selfish and at the end of the day doesn't follow humanity selfish therefore a father protects their daughter that doesn't make sense fuck off we're just going to take your daughter again you know from you but you're just supposed to do the right thing and let us kill your daughter what i'm sorry how is it not selfish to decide that you are the one that's going to like force this girl into the surgery without asking for her consent isn't that a little selfish yeah this where i mean this this revisionist fucking history for the fireflies is embarrassing the last of us two is really just provided kool aid to a lot of people and they've just downed it yeah i'm convinced that cosmonaut did not play the first game recently enough like he didn't replay it to actually have his memory fresh on oh yeah the fireflies are actually no he's he's uh played through the second game and the second game has confirmed his preconceived biases about what the fireflies actually were and that's good enough for him this shot that he has that this surgeon is not making a heroic sacrifice right now like he took it upon himself to kill a child like because he thought it would save the world that was that's all that's behind this and to be honest with you if he was truly altruistic all about saving the world he probably would have gone with the whole like this guy is fucking armored up okay sir please yeah if i die here i can't make the cure later yeah like please don't do this we need her and it's like look let's we'll not do the surgery okay we'll we'll do whatever you want but please please let us work on this this is the only chance he might have instead he's like fuck you scalpel time you're like what are you doing buddy he's got he's got all of the weapons don't do it can you um can you kill you no there's absolutely he's like an invisible wall basically and it's like yeah you just get by him you have to see there's should have been a cut scene it shouldn't have been um thing in reference to the last was two sorry not in reference to the last was one he never advances on you uh if you walk towards him without like shooting at him or anything joel just simply takes the scalpel that he's holding and digs it into his own neck oh which is the canonical way that he kills him but there are of course plenty of other ways that you can kill him that would then render this game on like non-canon so if i've got a thing in games too is like if you have multiple endings then forcing one of those to be the canonical ending is gonna automatically ostracize a lot of players he didn't do that one thing i mean it just like allows me to you know it gives me a sense of to use a flamethrower on him uh on each one of my uh later playthroughs of the game oh james mole wants us to recognize well which i think is fair the cosmos referring to it as a cure when it's it's important that it's called a vaccine um because it's a potential that it's very shaky ground that this vaccine is being created on okay there's a lot to it and if you take it 100 as i stab her in the brain and the whole world is cured of cordyceps whatever it's like oh i can see how that might affect your your thinking in this scene people don't really want to be saved seems like a decent story to me i could see that being in a video game but then if the if the story ends with the no like if the story ends with the guy basically uh choosing to operate on a girl without her consent when she arrives at the hospital unconscious and he dies i'm like good you got what he deserved i would dude i would be so confused i'm like what the fuck is this story man like i'm supposed to this guy we've learned about this whole game he like the second the the hope or the salvation of the universe comes in here he like wants to do it without a consent he doesn't want to tell her this is weird why have we not done more tests i'd be like this is so weird it feels like the game let's assume it was good up to that point it was really well paced and then suddenly they slap this ending on because they want him to get killed by a father but a father can't just kill him the father has to have like some sort of a reason so they can drive this ending this or i mean the fireflies are either really incompetent or really poorly written and we've got no choice but to accept that the last first one is entirely canon there's nothing about it that's like plot holy so the fireflies are fucking terrible people yeah i'm just happy to say that they're incompetent and they're awful people um once they're trying to say oh no but they're actually the good guys like uh um i don't know why we're fucking with the first game this is just don't you don't have to change the first game at all it's the second one that's shit all right worry about that one it's the state of writing sequels 2020 oh yeah we gotta fuck with the original stuff people like i think he's trying to make a point about pov probably so we'll just see where he goes with it that little girl's dad kills him because humanity truly is selfish and at the end of the day people don't really want to be saved seems like a decent story to me i could see that being in a video game but then a few years pass and in this alternate universe the last of us part two comes out and then we have to play as those other people how dare naughty dog make me play as these lunatics uh why are you doing this why are you trying to infer to be like as as though it could have gone either way right if we played as the doctor we'd be angry that we had to play as joel yeah no this this takes a lot of breaking down for why he's wrong it's not the same thing at all so yeah you can't just swap the people and have all the things they did make sense describe is not the doctor from the original last of us and it's not the doctor from the last of us part two he described a different character so we hold up how is so the we're transposing like watching abby be happy in her life is the frustration he's saying it would be just as frustrating to watch the girl that was going to be sacrificed without even knowing for something that might not even work who was rescued from that fate by her father being happy i'd be like why would i hate those two yeah you like i said you could change the order that you see them but it doesn't change what they actually do if you like we can justify the stuff joel does 100 we can't justify the stuff the doctor does nor can we justify abby yeah like that's the problem this is the huge problem the game experiences and he's already commented on this but he didn't i guess finish the point in terms of he's you know he said like the whole game has nothing to do with abby's side of the of pov i was like yeah you should have spent more time with abby explaining her decision explaining what she knew about joel and why she did it all and how much she regrets it we didn't do any of that or if we did it was incredibly thin it's kind of not the same but i don't even know that i can say good try like this was just nothing yeah i don't even think this is a good try territory i don't know what to say i don't know what i'm into big of it people are making memes about this shit where it's like what if a prequel of the lord rings comes out and is fucking sauron in his little house saving zebras like the fact that abby is present for the conversation between marlene and jerry and knows that ellie is not conscious to give her consent and she gives jerry consent for ellie this person that she doesn't know at all is like oh this just makes abby worse it would be one thing if she didn't know what a monster her dad actually was and she just doesn't have the right information but no she does she fully understands that they were going to operate on ellie without her consent and it's funny how cosmonaut has to tip toe around that fact that they didn't get ellie's surgeon consent they don't mention that well that's just that's the theme of cosmonaut's videos is that those pesky facts keep getting in the way of what he wants um rex you say that as if he remembers the content he's reviewing like i don't even know that he knows that happened in the game and once you have to like confront that fact that they were going to just kill her without telling her anything or getting her like getting the okay from her it's like man good luck to anyone that wants to argue that ellie was not owed consent so yeah um by the way with that sauron reference you might be like yeah that's a funny but it provides you the actual answer which is i don't care how humans are on is compared to the horrors that he committed on middle earth so what you need to do is take your time to explain to me why he did what he did as opposed to look he's a nice man it's like i i did that doesn't help anything actually getting me to be on his side is totally different than just informing me why he made the decisions he did for clearly the villains of the last game dr abby's dad was the true hero he wanted to save the world so did my dad i mean like come on man like you got to be smarter than this he almost seems like he's almost got it because he's delivering it in such a dull way as if somebody didn't even pick up what was happening in the actual story they were just like he's a nice man he's tried to save the world and Joel killed him that means so yeah that's what i mean like you don't analyze any of the specifics on how this all went down and now they live in this peaceful country town are you fucking kidding me that's not fucking fair Joel is evil why would not eat why would anyone think he's evil for saving his daughter that doesn't make sense yeah this is this is all built on the idea that you don't know how characters and works of fiction work but the tragedy for someone with your occupation of course but not analogous like yeah one like you can't flip his daughter figure and the other is somebody maliciously targeting him and beating him to death like i said if if you just have it so that Joel killed abby's father like you know as a hunter right he ambushed them when they were innocent he's one of those innocent people that he's killed in his past like that fixes it pretty much we would then suddenly sympathize with abby because yeah she didn't deserve to lose her dad and Joel took her dad from her that would make sense you can make us feel like you know kind of a dislike for a character we previously liked once we're given new information like that and we can or we can at least sympathize with the character that's going to kill them but we didn't get that here she's not justified in her quest for vengeance was what they needed to spend their time on and obviously it was going to be almost impossible to justify what she didn't that seems you need to change the scene a bit as well unfortunately they were driven too much by the fucking prospective shock value to let this go they were like nah let's beat the fuck out of him with a golf club and then spit on him people are gonna find that so shocking yeah we're gonna make this so hard for ourselves hey dog try to make me feel bad for killing him wait now i have to play as his daughter are you kidding me she's a psychopath do you see how silly that sounds i mean it sounds quite for the reasons you're trying to illustrate it does indeed you're not good at this you're really bad at crafting and explaining and analyzing stories also what is that tweet someone said mola doesn't have it was wrong to say mola doesn't have any passion for his content clearly he does uh what he means to say is mola has no love put into them what he has passion for it but not love for it i'd be curious how you yeah um but yeah i love a lot of a lot of media and i would argue it's what drives me to criticize shitty media because i want more of the stuff that i love yeah you might love it but do you have a passion for it oh no of course but uh it amuses me as well because it's every time we talk about some of these bigger franchises getting destroyed it's like where do you think this starts starts with loving them yeah like i didn't give a if i didn't ever give a shit about star wars i don't know if i would have ever met we if we didn't love star wars efat might have never been a thing i would have never met mola potentially i did like an 80 minute long review of shazam for like shits and gigs because i thought that that movie was like kind of poorly written but dude then then i saw toy story for after i finished my shazam video and i was like i dedicated the wrong sorry i dedicated an autistic amount of energy into analyzing a movie like for the wrong movie you know um because i i'm way more passionate about that than than i am about the dceu dceu's trash but toy story used to be like one of those franchises where every movie was good well you know star trek getting destroyed like rags and i haven't covered that at all yeah but you look at red letter media and the difference that they have between their star wars and their star trek commentary you can absolutely tell which one they care about more and i think if we were asked to cover the star trek stuff we probably be like yep that's stupid that's stupid that doesn't make sense anyway we'll see around because like yeah there's not much dare i say passion he's like oh my god but anyway yeah i did like him say like doesn't that sound silly it's like yes it does killing him wait now i have to play as his daughter are you kidding me she's a psychopath do you see how silly that sounds i didn't even change the story i just put it in a different what do you mean there you go to the same degree my point is that people are criticizing this game with the most surface level observations no it's not listen to them you even know what they are he thinks that everyone's mad just because joel died he hasn't listened to what people are actually saying he's just like assuming this is what people think that's your problem i'm gonna be kidding me dude it's so shallow the way people are talking about this story when cosmonaut variety i would call you shallow yeah it was like yeah joel wasn't a beloved character all those shallow people out there just don't get it like i do can't imagine why this video got like the lowest rates of his videos in history i'd say that i enjoyed about 60 to 70 percent of this game and the rest either bored me out of my fucking mind or made me angry so as a whole did this game really wasn't that great all of abby's campaign so you also still haven't explained what justifying itself means like this game do that no we're still it's still conjecture what that even is referring to if i its existence for me yeah i don't really know i still personally feel like this story did not really need to continue i really like the ending but the 20 hours leading like the ending you like the end yeah wow you liked the ending cheese doesn't surprise me maybe you are a masochist and it felt bloated and unsure of itself i can't just forgive the mountain of dumb shit only because i love the ending i have to look at the whole picture i don't really care if you love or hate the game i'm obviously so i don't know you're saying that we're dumb i mean i'm looking at you can't yeah i'm looking at the title here i think you care a lot look like i'm gonna at least i'll be honest and say i don't like it that people love the vandalorian look he's he's being objective okay he's saying he doesn't care about it but he's stating the fact that you guys are dumb if you think it's bad okay there's no there's no personal interest in there he's simply saying it what i do just because people only complain about dumb stuff like you know joel dying that's all that people are mad about those losers that's how people all those people out there somewhere that maybe we'll see one day because currently the conversations about this game are really not fun to engage with because you're on the wrong fucking side and you can't justify it i mean that's why it feels shit like it's shit to lose yeah i don't remember conversations promising to be fun like that's an engagement uh contract you sign you know everyone you have to have fun like oh okay i mean of course one side is going to be very disappointed here i was just well i mean it's pretty obvious this is of course a subject people getting emotional about because they fucking care about this ip getting destroyed they're angry you don't see this level of passion for the new episode of tallytubbies where they fuck up a continuity with the sun you know i am oh i was an important character to change but anyway we have to put a number on this game because number scores are really all some people care about and scoring this game is kind of tough i don't put it on mine you don't why do people do i didn't have to make i didn't want to make this video i i guess i have to put a score on it yeah i want to make this video it's the fun one give a give a score if it helps categorize it into where you on the scale kind of place it not because everyone wants to score yeah a lot of people uh it's kind of like a meme how dumb they are almost part of me wants to give it a six and part of me wants to give it a seven i think about all the stuff i love but then i remember the stuff that pisses me off so for now i'm gonna give the last of us part two a six point five out of ten that could probably change if i replayed the game i might replay it one day who knows bye yeah that was really shit you're horrible at your job legitimately one of the worst youtubers i've ever seen i usually qualify the statement with just in terms of ratio like his level of exposure compared to his quality i think he's possibly one of the worst if not the worst he's insanely low quality his takes are worthless he doesn't get things accurate he says things that are just flat out lies i just don't get it like there is no justice in the world and there's also just the really smug tone that he takes in a lot of his videos you also yeah he thinks he's cracked the case every time he covers anything doesn't he's been so little on it you he even said he was like i already played it to get the review out oh shit what um what number is wheel sitting at for this game was it 2.53 something like that mine mine is accompanied by the huge asterisk that i have not played it but so mine is a parentheses uh i'm pretty sure that when i first played it i was on a six but that was because of like what i thought about the gameplay where i thought it was just okay that's changed now i'm thinking i'm thinking three ish i was on a four uh and that's like being generous i'm i'm closer to saying two now um gameplay is way worse whole game will like because i kind of have to try and split him up because like i feel that i think it's pretty bad well if the game wants to be a story then you if you if this game has by design made the story a huge part of it so it has to be a part it's got to be the score a part of the score as well it's a story-driven game where the story absolutely sucks and the game part is worse than the game part from the first game like the gameplay is is overall a step down despite the expansion of features in this one um yeah the game looks good and animates really well oh yeah that's what gets it up as high as it does yeah i think that's why i can give it i can still i i'm i'm very secure in putting it below the five mark um because stuff like you know the graphics and things of that nature is like sure good but it's all in service of something terrible because graphics should be in service of something because i'm not like 12 year old who claps at pretty lights you're gonna have to do better than just making giving me something pretty to look at i didn't come here to look at things but to do things and experience things graphics aren't aren't even close to being everything for me uh i will play through a an early ps3 game before i play through the last of us part two oh i'm sorry someone in chat was like lola animates good get out of here dude like yeah it it looks good crap yeah of course there's stupid shit in it like you can't just be like will you skate towards people so it's not well animated like come on the game is well animated there are shortcomings there's problems but like when especially when it comes to the cutscenes and stuff like talking how yeah it's kind of like like like peer when it comes to facial animation oh yeah when i was doing a review uh it doesn't exist so don't ask for it but when i was kind of compiling information to do a modern warfare review i was gonna say like these cutscenes are the best cutscenes i've ever seen in my life and like that's worthy of pointing out and praising mm-hmm absolutely it excels on a on a technical aspect on a technical level uh yeah i mean i will say some of the animations don't quite work sometimes maybe that's a mark against mechanics rather than animations mm-hmm um it's all like the animations themselves are pretty good but when the game is like messing up then uh it screws them up in like gameplay basically so i'm not sure like that's what i mean i just say that visually it looks really good um it sounds good if we're talking strictly writing gameplay i probably go as far as maybe two and four averaging it was three right i don't know it's like i i put more priority on the story and gameplay above everything else and it's like yeah i think you should too yeah it excels at like a lot of other things um however they're they're overall inconsequential to my experience i guess so um if like a game can have uh bad graphics but as long as the story and gameplay is good it's like okay or even just the gameplay um fuck man i i mean for me it's very low not moving it below two sorry above two i'm not moving it above two it's you can say it's as lower as it is but it's very it's very low like that's what i mean i feel like i can never say it's too low um very low i feel secure to three or four i feel like i'm hovering around a five like probably no fucking way i'm letting this game have a five jesus christ yeah five is average five is totally average yeah this was a make it that high i guess it's worth hard to note that story wise i think it's like a two this was a story this was a miserable poorly paced slog of a game that i would compare to like torture um like maybe i am just blinded by hatred by what this game made me feel what it did to uh like i don't know the the the disappointment that i felt because i was actually sort of anticipating it for four years not seven because i felt like the the first game was a good complete story but i saw the first trailer i'm like oh you know this is actually a pretty cool trailer i liked the the slow little build up to the the the firefly symbol and everything and oh look it looks like it's gonna be Joel and ellie kicking ass together again and man i'm really let down i'm really let down by how it turned out um and it was giving me like it was causing physical pain by the time that i was done playing with it so i don't know it's a it's a very subjective score for me i know someone's saying like get better materials up all but no i'm genuinely saying it's like i don't know if i can um give a completely unbiased score there we go um what about you haven't i said three i'd go to three like some stuff redeeming in the story not much and decent mechanics but yeah it's just overall the story is what kills it we did it we made it through cosmonauts righty hour calling us idiots for liking last west too um since uh yeah critical drink of ringy and haven't of all voted on christmas halloween i suppose it's your time southpaw which of the two teams will you join in the war against uh thanksgiving well let's see uh so i work in retail and every december all that i hear for an entire month it is a dozen different covers of each christmas song and i don't have to deal with that shit in october with halloween so it's got to go to halloween no music kills it all music's good for like a month i'm just like i'll i'll take it man the joy of the season halloween halloween numbers you know what it's it's just easier for me to get into the spirit of halloween than it is for christmas i'm afraid um i haven't really enjoyed christmas for for a few years but uh yeah the fire is losing there are more on christmas the spooky side grows in ranks i didn't actually expect this many people to be on the halloween team honestly fucking got mark after dark j longbone armored skeptic metal sitch that's bullshit j that's tall skill and rick walley and so this has pulled right now i guess the other guys chose the other thing i guess yeah probably objectively better holiday and yeah so originally what we're gonna do too i feel like um there's no fucking way i'm gonna be able to do a second video and super chats i'm not even sure i can get through all of super chats if we were to start them now so i think we'll have to save the other one for another time as you probably guessed this one was dense yes and uh the last first two is probably not finished being covered um oh no people ain't gonna let this one go besides you know i'm fucking making a video on it i'm gonna want to keep keep checking out them um and wonderful arguments in favor of slash uh joining the conversation in general about it the brood remembers though i haven't really learned how i was dumb for thinking it was bad but uh there we are that's the promise of the video in in in the wind though i think it's pretty clear because he doesn't even say it in the video i'm guessing it was uh just to attract clicks incendiary clicks people are saying do do the do the second video oh yeah green was to be invited on to talk about his favorite game the last of us too what do you i mean does he you want to just just give you a speech about it right now or something what do you what do you want what do you want internet historian please come on i want to be in a call with the guy that made the fall of 76 video come on internet historian you're in the call with a guy who made the fall of 76 video yeah no fall out 76 but the you know internet historians fall out 76 video did you not watch internet historians fall out 76 video i haven't seen it no oh uh it's fucking amazing is it as good as his uh no man's sky video it's it's pretty incredible i i showed it to my brother who had no knowledge whatsoever on the fall out 76 fiasco and uh i was like you know we'll we'll just watch the first five minutes and if you're not liking it we'll uh we can stop you watch the whole thing and yeah i'm gonna come up through the bathadak does happy do it i mean his fucking stupid ass discord friends list apparently fully can't even accept anyone really really why is the limit i don't know hi i suppose and i i know steam has a limit yes again though another one of the time but um still don't know if he actually wants to come on or not talk a bit about this wonderful game i saw him watch his playthrough of it though but that's on the list i've heard it's very me me too many friends far too likeable that's his problem but i mean with a face like that you know um but yeah i don't actually know how to get any further with that i guess try me on twitter if if that's if that's what you're interested in i don't know because i would suppose that now um like i said i won't be able to do another i didn't expect us to take how long was that on it was uh six six and a half for 20 minutes fucking hell there was so much to talk about why do you do this to us cosmonaut why couldn't it have been an agreeable video i uh i can't wait to see your guys reaction to the internet's janitor this uh pretty great video oh he said he'll shoot one for the next one i'm down very well so all right all right um so yeah i think we you bet is it i we would have if this were three hours of coverage maybe three and a half maybe four i would push for a second one but i don't think yeah we're at six hours now and that was dense and we've covered a lot and we have talked about a lot and uh i'm afraid i can't go to the cap today either so i'm gonna have to um get get get going also by the way the king kong game i fucking can't get it to work without glitching out it makes me very upset for potential super jack catch up if it's on pc though i might be able to get that vision working or something the game people on just keeps fucking up i was showing fringy it doesn't load everyone's legs in people like from next to us the models explode other than the game freezes i was like wow i'm having a lot of conversations of fringy without me i get it no it's all indeed i would i would i'm just gonna go fringy my glitchy game now really he wouldn't understand in fairness i wouldn't want to put such curses upon you have to you have to watch all of the last two videos like enough that was really yeah i'm i'm in i'm i got a short fuse i've been putting up with bullshit right now i'm still recovering from watching the last two i'm still on recovery from all those reviews going through all those reviews of the game yep this is so tiresome it's funny how every single time though and someone could make a fucking career out of this just aggregating all of the video reviews on youtube for each game and showing how much they essentially eat each other well yeah one of the things you notice is just how interchangeable they are like IGN game spot games radar or whatever like they're all saying the same things do you want to say do you want to say the internet's janitor for e-fap 100 oh we actually had a video set up for them but uh possibly possibly you never know e-fap 100 is all you know a wonderful little up in the air experience is that is that the zebra's ass yes wow well i'm gonna i'm gonna slide into into jerry's dms later on it's it's called jerry now is this canon jerry that's yeah abby's dad's name is jerry yeah he is jerry cool that's the zebra he looked at that zebra and it was running away yeah well man doesn't get many chances to fuck a zebra so true where i suppose i'll boot up the good old all reliable little mr third age and then we'll get we'll get to it it's funny enough the first the very first one says um southpaw really fix your mic fucking racializer in which yeah in this case if anyone have mic trouble it was evan so how about that uh i think everyone's having mic troubles uh when like sam was cutting out on your end that was great yeah like you guys caught me uh the king kong game can be simulated on ps2 and xbox like i said i'm pretty sure it's on pc so if i'm gonna is it on steam that's a i'll check right now that's a question i should have fucking looked for the answer for wild action king kong uh take a look uh there's harambe kong oh man apparently it's not on steam boom oh well um i'll see about getting that working at some point i suppose uh though i guess i actually should say i apologize for not doing this a little faster if any of you would like to um exit at this point that is absolutely within your rights i actually provided um okay go ahead fuck you yeah no i'll probably bow out oh that was fun every time it's such an adventure you don't have cos no video we don't use the way they're gonna go we don't use the word fun here friggy no no funnel oh that was a quote wasn't it somebody said that yeah yeah when you give us your 60 dollars we're gonna make you feel fucking miserable about it and then you compare it to good ol reggie if it's not fun why bother you know this is a good oh wait what is this hold on can you read this out yeah all right um philosophical rumination is what druckman believes sets the last of us apart from other stories in the post apocalyptic genre a narrative framing that has become bloated in recent years across various forms of media a lot of stories in this genre are very pulpy says druckman for us the goal is to make it very character driven and focus on themes that exist outside the genre um by what focusing on themes which pretty much well that's a side of genres those are two different things weirdly throwing other zombie game uh zombie genre stuff under the bus there as well you know a lot of other people do pulpy stuff but not us we are yeah ours are shit yeah everyone's f-ing the stream stop f-ing the stream it went down for one second it said stream offline and then it just came um guys you're f-ing it but uh stop and second yeah i guess i will talk to all of you later well wait i f-ing you're supposed to be like go come to fringy for reviews on apples or whatever you do oh right is this my pitch well you know just just give me a little more time to figure out what i'm doing have a pitch for you nothing nothing in the pipeline nothing to consider yeah maybe but i don't want to say anything yet you should promise them stuff so they can get upset when you don't give it yeah i've done that too many times i'm just gonna be quiet until something's finished and then just throw it out without warning very well subscribe to fring daddy g and once uh stuff comes out we'll just tell you to do it again okay guys we'll have it work if sorry if stuff comes out oh if yeah that's right don't i'm not promising anything that's gonna be a problem some stuff i don't know i'm just saying yeah don't push me don't make me do this chat make them do it chat go i don't like pressure and stress yeah all right see you guys toodles bye bye bye bye baby baby uh yeah of course southpaw evan would you like to hang out or escape i'm happy to hang out i was waiting for uh for evan to talk first wait did you not hear me no i did not no what was that oh i don't get my mic has been doing that we're like it cuts off the beginning of my sentence it's like uh i don't know why it does that i have mic troubles we still don't know you're around still don't hello wait you can't oh no it's funny that we get lots of bits of bobs explaining how his mic is not working but not quite the yes or no hello can you hear me no yeah these yeah we can we can we can hear you what we're there okay i'm a new victim so is that your way of saying yes you will hang around yes that's my way of saying yes we did it it's been quite a journey that was a better journey than the last of us part two i like that awk yeah it's good yeah great character working no evan jelly and efep when fucking weeb stuff disgusting ew get it away this is no leave cosmo alone crying face i mean no he deserves it he kind of the title you know he's just kind of it's just like hmm title the argumentation i mean if you're gonna say you're just stupid for not liking the last of us part two you better have some airtight bulletproof fucking arguments and then chooses to create a bunch of straw man is like oh fantastic this is my favorite part this is my favorite kind of video oh my god more racism from hard hot against the elf feels like they're trying to reference something with that i used to play this game i think a lot of people did it's kind of weird in a good way yeah such a long game too yeah yeah i mean you get a ton of content in this dust i've seen it before this dust belonged to your mother oh she's got something i didn't i didn't see that before uh so i like how the object doesn't track properly in her hands no good old ps2 era graphics picturing like some dude actually you know took the time to do that specific thing i almost want to have a little time machine to go see it it's like you're making a little little animation in lordry's today do they just make it part of her model for that one scene it was like actually her model was that thing in her hands and in between cuts they just use a different model that well what do i know oh my hair rags am i crazy you're stupid for preferring the return of the king gameplay to third age i i mean there's vastly different genres action yeah one's action was turn based so i wouldn't blame you no all right i mean i went through those two already so like i prefer it gay do you prefer this or return of the king return of the king i would probably probably say i'm not sure the thing with this is like i enjoy it but i'm pretty sure it's more so on a superficial level yeah but then it's not like i think the mechanics of that strong in the return of the king games either a little bit floopy they're all very floopy so you get for movie tying games the flute factor um yeah this said oh hi rags oh hi didn't know if you wanted to deal with that now or later you know so it's complicated anytime i'm always down for it um i've been looking forward to this yeah a lot of people were interested in covering cosmos mentioned throughout the last stream when we were like um checking out the dank and the just right which look it back that was a 15 minute plus a seven minute one so it makes sense that they end up in similar times we should have seen this coming i can't wait for you to read this super chat and try to pronounce ice swallow and then come in like 10 hours also something flirty to rags also two plus two equals four not five i agree i agree with that we got a math major here i'm gonna say a lot of people don't agree with that uh taren's how it doesn't agree with that right doesn't need have a different math system or some shit i think that he says uh um one plus one equals four or something or i can't remember what the what the idea no i think he said one times one is two i'm trying i'm pretty sure he said that one times one is two for some reason that's how i'm remembering it is that the i don't check am i fucking it up i'm probably fucking it up i don't remember that doesn't sound correct to me i mean well yeah what he said was not correct but i mean clearly he's evolved as a mathematician he said one times one equals two apparently but he's got a tweet filled with context to explain how it works so there you go get rekt mathematicians figure it out finally oh wait i'm very excited for this one good luck e-fab crew we survived that's something right drinker was defeated at one point not enough drinking that's what it is wait i hope this fucking person isn't immune to stunts uh hello rags hello still pooping with the door open no i i i no i've never started yeah that's the thing that question assumed an answer that was never the case that is fucked up another loss of his two stream good people seem to think this is a good game though it's gone from its 10 out of 10 to well actually guys is a solid seven it's not a solid set keep it going um angel season four just hurts how does oh i don't know if i should read this out it's a little specific how does person do the person thing what the fuck is person why is that thing who wrote this yes season four of angel is really bad it's unfortunate um you pull on through to get to that season five have you have you actually like read this math thing no after thoughtful reflection in literally thousands of hours of observation coupled with five decades of deep deep and contemplative work upon the subject it has brought me to the inevitable conclusion that this false concept must have been the brainchild of a godlike figure of some sort someone whom the people possibly credited for giving them their multiplication table and their geometry um like some of this is some call them the anunnaki the sky people whoever that like some of this is really weird i'm sorry i'm sorry roll it back the sky people made the road back to the anunnaki a gift that set that civilization apart from the rest of the world a multiplication table and system of calculating that would enable that civilization to rule the then known world from the time of the late egyptian dynasty till the meaty and the persians brought a sudden end to their way of life um like um i'm some of this is and i went through the tweet thread there's a lot of people calling them out for this weird stuff i can't imagine why yeah i which is what i expected uh yeah i call up i call on all the elementary schools middle schools and high schools i call to all the nursery school there's a he misspelled all all the nursery school teachers and kindergarten teachers i call upon all the schools of higher learning he misspelled higher learning and all of the thinking branches of academia to do an immediate audit upon this false statement of one times one equals one i mean he's passionate that's an interesting one um i would like to see the sky people he taken seriously personally i don't like yeah the sky people but that doesn't mean they have nothing interesting to say he talked about mesopotamia and stuff this interesting or maybe the first order is just racist against the sky people and that's why they don't know which way is up maybe the sky people uh you know we're able to build the the wooden structures on the crane in between the buildings in the last of this part too the best explanation i could give to that is that by happenstance due to neglect of the towers one of them crashed and just happened to land on a nearby tower and they converted that happenstance occurrence into a useful sky bridge i'd like to see how that could happen in that way yeah i am secondly there's two of them in the same area um and then i guess the first one gave him the idea to do the next one themselves push it over i need someone to animate how it's possible draw it in several images i just don't understand how it's possible i don't get it joel did it that created a sky bridge joel wouldn't have done that he would have destroyed everything no but listen joel is doing it for the seraphites who are fighting against the the wlf which is beside the abbey's on but he would have known that would he have known in his godlike omniscience that abbey would use that to complete her mission that's true good point well now the joel is a mysterious one i mean so too are there some ways mysterious if he is omniscient like he did give his name to someone that he should have known was going to kill him if she knew his name maybe it was his plan to get killed yeah well listen he could shrug away anything that doesn't make sense by saying that he works in mysterious ways who is that skyman the person they they the great big jay upstairs i need to live real quick efap fact gerald cosmo lev one oh one punch i get it there's several punches though lots and lots of punches small punches big punches all of the punches death stranding also has it where you strap a baby to your chest but it's also for amazon delivery services however hello seragleton alive i have to wait for rags to get back to hear that one but uh yeah we've got a theme of you know taking babies into combat i think that's something that we need to really look into as a possibility i don't think we should write it off immediately like baby combat why not when you use deer targeted strike makes it sound like i won't miss it but that's not what it means not at all episode 100 of andromeda had a blooper reel it was charming and showed the fun they had along the way maybe you should watch hardcore henry high rags that's a an interesting jump from that initial thing there hardcore henry i mean if more people were like interested maybe but there's only like you know like like several people that's that's totally it don't you want us to see wrinkle in time to the wrinkling and ninging the wrinkler i think this should be a villain called the wrinkler also high rise three high rags down muller did you mention a few times that dark knight rises isn't a quality film can you do a breakdown of the major criticisms oh boy just tell people to start from the top man there's so much wrong with just that opening in plain scene like it's so much of the story just doesn't make sense at face value when it's a real thing though thank you for asking while i was here by the way thank you so fucking much um well it's been a while since i've seen the movie although i am planning on planning on doing a full length breakdown of why it's so bad but evan do you want to actually get out your notes that you took on the movie we can we can just jump on the bottom i have to dig that up on my twitter i watched the movie and i took detailed notes on everything that was happening and that like it blew my mind how much we look it up dark knight rises rags oh oh oh yeah the movie where uh they trapped the police in the sewers for six months i think five or six months yeah supply them with food and razors and batman finds the time to paint a bat symbol on a bridge and gasoline but how about the fact that you like forgot a fucking uh plane crash in the beginning that's done to fake the the scientist's death and it's the most suspicious fucking plane crash possible because there's bullet holes all on the outside of the fuselage and the tail is and and the wings are far away from where the fuselage is and the fact that the dental records of the body that has dr poble's blood in it uh are not going to match dr poble's dental records i mean it's pretty crazy six months and no one's like yeah pretty sure that dr poble isn't actually dead lies on that looking like a completely fine plane crash the wings have been snapped off there's bullets in the fuselage the bodies are going to have bullets in it like there there's no way that plane would be able to crash and destroy all of the evidence and if so you wouldn't even bother trying to put a fake body in there it's just like they stand free at once and bane somehow knew that that's what they would do just brains 100 writing oh alligathe level up good old alligathe yeah there you go it is pretty useful you guys were around because uh i'd have to rewatch it to be more specific but i just remember lots of tizm lots of tizm and as i just said they've only covered the opening there i think that we're going to do like a watch party of that at some point right was that uh was it the agreement i mean i'll be on board i probably want to watch the trilogy i guess maybe we could do the free fat movies ranks yeah the dark night the dark night rises and dark night rises again squad oh he fell down twice it makes sense but hey you know it's it's okay for him to survive the nuclear explosion and get back to gotham with no explanation because he's batman because montage oh brown table uh that video blows my mind how many like likes that video's gotten versus dislikes like people like like a hundred thousand people saw that video and were like yeah this is good i'm like it it really isn't that that video is like easily one of the worst videos i've ever seen in my life it blows my mind with everything we've covered on e-fap you sure about that get out there for me there's there's been some tizmy stuff that you guys have covered but even just editing on a basic level many a applied like that grain filter and it's like it's got text on the screen all times to just make it like so it doesn't even look good it's yeah pro game removed fun fact the first super chat that i ever sent you maller was during e-fap gaming number one asking you to do a critique of the dark night rises and uh and you're all you answered like i wouldn't do a critique maybe an unbridled rage and uh i was so happy to then end up on e-fap and then cover a video about that movie with you i mean quite quite an interesting arc yeah and and yeah i would if i was to do a video and it probably would be that but i don't know when or when and at this point it's like hey why don't you do it you do it i will do it but i have to cover i have to fucking cover last was two i have to which by the way i'm planning on getting my video done by halloween the best holiday how do you um how do you know that's are you guessing that or are you gonna delay it until or are you gonna just hope you get it done then so i've still got uh plenty to work on with the script i'm hoping to have a finished script by end of this month and then i'm going to record audio edit and then just crunch on video editing and because it's a video game i'm not gonna have to focus too much on like shortening clips to six seconds or less for copyright reasons um so i can you know just kind of have gameplay playing when i'm just uh talking about various criticisms but of course i'll have like accompanying footage when necessary you know um well like what if you finish the video two weeks before halloween you're just gonna wait until halloween i'll probably just wait till halloween yeah why do you want to know on halloween um i don't know i just i it's a good holiday so fair enough is there a problem with uh releasing on halloween no i just don't see the connection between the last of us two in halloween outside of it's a scary game in terms of what they tried to achieve and failed to do well it's also um it's uh it gives me a reasonable deadline i feel it's like i'm just giving myself a deadline i'm setting something that i can work towards and uh it's it is working at prompting me to actually work on it rather than just keep on putting it off as i have with other videos yeah with mine i'm still in information collection phase but i do think structurally it's going to be very different this is the first kind of video of its well first was kind an unbridled rage but for a video game not even i know exactly how i'm structuring it yet yeah because i've got like stuff i've got sort of sections and i'm wondering do i want to like first tackle tackle like technical aspects then gameplay then characters then story then themes and then conclusion or do i want to cover story first or do i want to like not even do sections and i just i just go through the story mainly and people are encouraging me to talk about the gameplay as well um but honestly like even though i have gripes with the gameplay i don't think i can do a fully like in-depth breakdown of why i feel it's just inferior overall to the first game the best i can say is like the combat in general is just way more clunky than in the first game thanks to that stupid dodge mechanic um and the shooting also feels like way worse it's just it's difficult to fully qualify other than well the aim wobble is much higher and the dodge mechanic doesn't seem to work half the time you could prove that with getting your controller projected on screen so that people can see you when you're pressing it when you're not right um because i don't i don't know how to set that up for playstation 4 at the same time as streaming it through uh el gato and stuff at the same time like for comparing the the wiggle the sway well um no so like if you wanted to test whether or not the dodge is working then the what people rely on is to trust you that you're pressing the button because some people can't see your oh just get a webcam no if you get a program that projects the controller onto the screen like mechanically like it'll show like a little cartoon vision but it'll you know be well rendered and it'll show the analytics moving as you move them it'll show the buttons pressing as you press them and you can resize it however you want uh of course you could still fake that theoretically and you could you could fake a webcam as well but i mean it's what you know yeah eventually all of this can be faked you're gonna have to some level of confidence to put into there yeah uh i mean at the very least there's um there is footage of me playing the game i i streamed my whole playthrough of it and there was like several moments where i'm like i'm pressing l one why is the dodge button not working i felt the same way so it's perfect though i was told it is perfect uh great upgrade from uh the first game's gameplay so rags is three things you missed while you were gone okay hi rags oh hi hi rags oh hello hello sir raggleton alive oh hello to you oh no my whole team's dying again i guess i'll have to resurrect them this game is very uh difficult to do do emil shall shailen from valiant will always be a more tragic character than any loss of his character i'm not familiar with valiant neither am i but i'll uh take your word for it the only thing that's good about this game is that it might actually get me laid tell my new girlfriend about it she hates it and love my arguments hey well sweet hell yeah my dude hey there's there's got to be a silver lining for everything yay the angry boys that's well this is more of a rage field podcast just shouting saying very no we do yeah yeah i got a little carried away at a couple points here and there well i just mean that you spend this long mostly calm explanations of something and it's like you guys just rad okay yeah well i don't think so i think where's a lot of a lot of knowledge up in there juicy juicy knowledge uh muller i love your david a voice what are your favorite documentaries of his oh well i mean the easy ones we planted earth like that shit i think a lot of people found you'd be like why would i care and then you often you're like oh this is really interesting yeah i like it yeah it's pretty cool well sometimes sometimes it's hot don't don't oversell it you know urukai bay not should do some damage to an urukai right oh you missed never mind yeah well you'd think but yeah i haven't seen well i probably have seen a bunch of david adabra stuff but i don't know the names of all of them i remember i saw david adabra thing in an imax theater it was really cool i can't remember what it was i think it was to do with fish the oh planet fish the objectively inferior to dinosaurs type of fish just just wanted to make sure to establish that guys did you think the remarkable republican guy is not real his channel is called their sights the historian he uses that channel satire yeah i think he's just trolling we uh when i when i was sent that i found out i can't remember how that actually happened i was just like aha he uses um the character i think is just a way to further humiliate his perceive his his perception of that side um but i mean there's some funny videos it was funny yeah but a lot of us too is the equivalent to circumcision via cheese grater that sounds painful that sounds preferable i don't enjoy that or not hi drunkly frongloid evan southpaw and mulberry hello hi jay i call paul jim and todd rags it just says rags i think i think that's a form of hello can't be sure i guess well i what a few of you you die batman oh he did die effab 100 movie bob and patrick williams versus remarkable republican in no bullshit a debate joker a homosexual joker homosexual that's it it was so funny is no bullshit would probably assume that remarkable republican is like on his team you know oh yeah he would unironically absolutely like this guy like he's not really a parody that's why we didn't know it first because some people are just like that yeah that's it's tough to know um have you uh have you guys checked out black pills video on joker yet no i remember that one soft boy that's not the one that says it's a rip off of the other films it's it's called king of joker driver what do you think i'm gonna go with joker driver yeah i miss a real hobby from so many different films you you really need to check out that video that's an that's an e-fap worthy joke for take if i've ever seen one i mean yeah sure i think it's actually in my backlog so who knows uh fringy i recently played all jack games whereas the games are still fun as hell the wheel building is very air bring daddy jerry i'll you know i'll save that for him if if uh if i we can remember or repeat it i'll see after we said anybody here played the jack games no i never played him never jack and daxter game yeah how's the wheel building is it to them it's been so long since i played it mauler wow that was yeah i'm sorry it's you know i haven't played in like fucking 10 15 years let's leave it to um let's leave it to the audience is the wheel building in jack and daxter strong middle or weak let's have a look is it is it middle is it everyone knows is the world building middle oh wait let's wall call this bitch fucking shouted him do it you got nay i don't know but strong wheel buildings kind of flismy perhaps wheel building is mere you know if i treat you all as one person this is very confusing k mere no wheel building is middle high all of the above and middle there's always the middle middle too weak yeah it's not great strong yeah again i think there's enough there's enough comments in relation to it not being too strong to conclude that it's probably got weaknesses chat's still a more consistent character than ellie the outlying villagers have been warned out of context ifap quote i can't believe you have 10 000 deaths star destroyers and you just die i mean that one kind of makes sense yeah um i i i agree with that that quote it's it's really surprising you know that it is yeah you don't need us to explain how you could fuck up that big of an advantage all at once like a man hard to believe this is the same guy who got control of the galaxy and dissolved the senate essentially and got total power well i mean he's also the same guy who apparently just sends out a message to the to the galaxy saying he's back when he could just surprise him all with his uh that's like a different character than the one the prequels post first not death yeah it's pretty pretty hmm announced my engagement on e-fap last october but koof has ruined all of our plans now we're going to a lope mohler would you please officiate the wedding rags can be our witness chats invited to um like on very memorable we'll well i mean but you should print out little little discord icons and just pop them on the on the table we'll be there in spirit but uh i mean i'm what does it mean to a lope again is it like the run away and get married it's like getting married with all the official elements but not in like a big event way right i think it's like running away from the parents and stuff like it like getting married against the wishes of people running away to do it i'm not sure it's it's kind of like rushing through it rather than throwing a big proper ceremony that's what i do i don't want ceremony i fucking hate ceremonies that's the worst part about people dying is i know i got to put up with a shitty funeral yeah like oftentimes they'll uh go to to vegas and have an elvis impersonator officiate the wedding man well um i hope it goes really well uh the chat you're apparently invited to the eloping of everyone better be there yes all hi southpaw i didn't know what depression was until i played the last two and saw what it did to the first last of us yeah that's kind of how i feel uh it's kind of soured the first game for me a little bit um in ways that tlj did for the original trilogy and toy story four did for the first three movies but the good news is that in both of those cases i there was like a healing process that i went through and i'm able to enjoy the original trilogy still even if there's that little like sour feeling that little you know aftertaste that i get gagging certainly because once you see something like tlj you're scarred right but there eventually comes a time where it doesn't like hurt anymore to uh re-experience it to relive what was good that came before but that's that's not me right now uncharted 2 is still the best naughty dog game feel like fringy would definitely challenge that he likes his crash and he likes his uh i wonder what fringy would choose uncharted to or crash to if only we could know i'm not sure i always thought qts were extremely lazy way to have gameplay it's um it's when they want something very specific to happen but they also want to maintain the fact that you're playing a video game so they're like how about yeah we play out this very specific thing but we just put these little numbers on well button prompts and like and then you get to the point we're like how about we make them hard instead of easy so it feels like the player actually has an involvement and then when you have hard qts you're like oh i don't even want to do this really like this is annoying now guitar hero with controller yeah a lot of people don't like him turns out starlin adolf and maus were all related their great grandfather's name was joel oh and that's outside of the fact that joel is the root of all evil that's just a coincidence again well i mean one of the odds that they actually you know were all related because maybe they were all descendants of genghis khan all makes sense hello longman hello just making sure you know the e-fab 100 remix is done sent it to you basically everywhere also hi rags oh hi i recognize your name so i believe i've already captured it um watched falling down and the game last night is it just me or are they the same character in different timelines i suppose you could argue the similarities i've seen both of them michael do glouse films uh the game is a is a weird one um so so on that movie that's probably one of my least favorite fincher films uh yeah premise wise is like pay a firm to run a like incredibly complex multi-layered game in your own life that's trying to i can't remember quite more than that but yeah it's kind of banking on the ending twist as well and the ending twist like you kind of look at the entire film you're like i don't know if this could all flow the way that they're saying it could but they put a lot of effort into trying to make it like make sense and you're like but wait what about and then it's like pretty much so you're just like yeah it's for an interesting film though it's it's still fun to watch i suppose yeah falling down is fucking great though i like falling down quite a bit yeah very uh very easy to empathize with that man my four favorite massives together again hello long man froggled professor drinker and big hello to rags with belly rose oh hello thank you oh wow just ignored the other two that's so racist hey wait a minute i'm fighting shaku the boss of the wags and i have a perfect mode can i send a wog to go bite him that seems like it shouldn't be like his ability should prevent that from happening but fuck it uh i'm gonna make him bite him do it fighting wags with wags we must fight the wags with the wags who is this boy am i should have sent my tree to go and attack him my bad my tweet new theory joel made loss of his two to drive people to suicide and claim even more victims also high rags oh hi i think that makes sense he's trying to do it in subtle ways but this one was a bit of an overstep so come on joel we can see right through you buddy making something like the last was two like really you got to chill the enemy is relying on me having missed all of my moves so far it's an interesting tactic oh wow lethal bite took off about 20 percent of my hp that's not that leap i was gonna say like hmm probably try a little harder next time just saying we got an f minus according to the game's test because i wanted abby to suffer yeah me too you failed you were supposed to feel bad or well good about the ending i've said my piece on what i wish happened instead yeah it's uh it's an interesting thing to like condemn the audience for an experience that most of them had kind of crazy that you'd be like you you felt wrong about that ending you're like but you want to find out why it may have gone that way though i'm not saying you're playing games wrong but you're playing games wrong in fairness we did discover that cinematic venom is actually evidence that someone can watch a movie wrong so yeah man i think it's proof right there if ever you needed it there it is you know it's funny um because a lot of the arguments in favor of oh no the the fireflies were right and the cure totally would have worked and the world would have been saved it relies on authorial intent at best like if you have Neil Druckmann and even Australia saying yeah no uh it's it's true jolted the wrong thing it's like okay cool death of the author is a thing you know move along now and uh one of the things i'm going to use to talk about why authorial intent is not a good idea is hypothetical scenario jr r Tolkien says that gimley wanted Frodo to die what happens if he says that when there's nothing in the text of the Lord of the Rings supporting that i mean yeah we usually we've talked about a couple times i just go to extreme examples like um just uh cinematic venom is actually a very good example of an extreme example you're right it's just something we don't even you need a reference it's like help me out here i don't see how you got there but you know it's the whole idea of someone says this is my argument these are all my reasons and you're like those reasons aren't very good it's like what if they're said by the creator it's like okay the reasons are still not good though i don't know what to tell you yeah um another like like a less extreme example because it actually happens as well who shot first is a credo or Han creator says one thing everyone else is another well but that one's literally based on the the version of the film you watch i guess you know also kind of like uh the take-in thing that happened earlier were exactly does uh Liam Neeson like put the the prong thing is for the electrocution again you just have to be this is the difference like when you cover Blade Runner you need to be explicit with what version you're uh you're reviewing i guess because i don't think everyone agrees on which one is the ultimate or canon version but as long as you appeal to something i'm totally fine with reviewing any if i can one like for example um should i judge doxels too as doxels too or doxels to skull of the first sin and i was like well i chose skull of the first sin because that's what the developers decided uh cold their definitive addition but that doesn't mean someone couldn't judge doxels too and it also doesn't mean the doxels too isn't superior it might very well be i am by the way i have been compelled to give taken another shot um i'm feeling uh i've you know when i when i rewatch taken like a couple years ago it was like kind of amidst a string of like really great action movies and like comparatively i guess it just wasn't that impressive to me and a lot of it had to do with just the action is not the best i don't have a problem with the story i don't have a problem with Liam Neeson's acting and sex traffickers getting theirs is definitely uh one of those things that gets a thumbs up from me on like an emotional level um but yeah action and editing didn't really care for it much but i can i can give it another shot i can gain an appreciation for movies that um i previously didn't like over time also i killed the boss of the wargs and it just said helms deep now like okay you killed the boss of the wargs now helms deep will be wargless and uh yeah like taken's not perfect for sure i just um i think his score is higher than than average i'd be like yeah it's uh it's pretty solid and i certainly think so it's um it was fun rewatching it because i was like oh man he's competent i miss competence it wasn't long after we were discussing Mandalorian quite a bit and it was like oh look at him go i remember that um characters with motivations and doing stuff and whole histories that was reflected in all of their actions straightforward story i i remember the pacing being pretty good like there wasn't really a moment in the story where i felt bored oh yeah i'd say one of my few issues is the very ending like it there's some stuff that doesn't quite add up when you remember like what plot points have been dealt with they're just like how did all this kind of wrap up with a neat little bow like there there should be a little bit more to this ending so that's that's probably one for taking all the carnage that he wreaks upon paris you should feel like there there should be a little more consequences yeah this is after him and not a new like how did he like how did the french authorities not go after him and like like how would he even get out of the country at that point they also when he's captured they execute him in a very fucking poor manner and he kind of escapes through what i would definitely reference as a bit of luck they um they like tie his hands to a pipe which is what they always tie the hero's hands to when they need to get the hero trapped but they need to have him be able to escape this is just it's a it was a thing that happened in 24 all the time remember evan that's jack it's that a whole lot of situations that you shouldn't have at least like with uh the last of us because bill handcuffs ellie uh to a pipe when when he meets her in jewel it makes sense because like well that's just what he has available to him and he's just trying to uh check them for bites and and whatnot but oftentimes in movies like taken or or shows like 24 um no they have plenty of other possible options at their disposal they choose the easily breakable pipe well i mean he's lucky they didn't just execute him because they basically clarify i think his motivation they're like why are you here and he's like give me about my daughter and he's like oh i'm sorry anyway kill him it's like oh why don't you just kill him anyway just sit quietly but if they still you could have stabbed him there were a lot of faster ways than to like show that and then you like breaks the pipe like wow that was that was lucky yep but it's not nearly as dumb as um what happens in the last of us too when dina stands on the skylight shoot different skylight gets you know knocked on her ass because the guy shoots at the skylight that she's standing on and then decides well i have a gun but i think i'd rather just strangle this bitch yeah apparently if you let if you don't do the qt he does actually strangle her out like that is actually what he's trying to do there he's definitely trying to kill her and it's like dude just shoot them why are you not shooting up because you could hold on to the thin hope you just trying to knock her out but no he kills her i'm gonna fail that qte on my next playthrough i don't think i failed on my first one but i'm gonna stream another playthrough of that game so i can get more clear footage of uh of gameplay for my review that's gonna be a thing that i'll i'll start doing next week i think no no where would you say the fireflies are on a good to evil scale um with my being true neutral three solid three possible two like they have good intentions but like they don't have the means to carry them out they're like they're low on men they're like they oh and the way they carry out there's supposed a good intentions is like i said it's like they're taking all of the pages and pointers from the how to look like an evil organization handbook well every extremist believes that they're well intentioned yeah well i'm i'm judging them based on my moral standard right mostly because i don't have a chance choice but um i yeah they're pretty pretty bad we can almost do if we knew more about them we'd be able to judge them on their own set of morals assuming they have them we just don't know so little we get to find out about anybody in the fucking world i can understand their desperation because the game makes it pretty clear that they're running low on men and they're losing their fight so as far as they're like they're wanting to rush into this operation like i don't think that's necessarily bad writing it's just like i feel like there's a cause and effect that leads to that but it doesn't make them good well you don't think it's bad that they're rushing the operation no i'm saying it doesn't wait wait we're even if they could provide somebody who was immune even that has value that they could use to bargain with yeah but no it was bad for them to rush into it yeah yeah sorry i i'm uh not able to detect sarcasm as as well as i normally hello rakam on hello please tell movie movie why you should watch a ghost in the shell uh movie i think you should watch ghost in the shell because if you like soma then i think you will like ghost in the shell because they're kind of similar in the way that they treat the existential understanding of what makes us us and why we are the way we are what makes us who we are and it deals with these kinds of issues i personally am a big fan of ghost in the shell in fact recently i watched um the uh i watched solid state society i thought it was pretty good and i thought it felt really nice and ghost in the shelly i thought there was some good character stuff in there um i will say it does sound pretty predictable like it's gonna be a beach they find some shells and they'll find like some guy died inside a shell so his ghost is in there i was killed by hermit crab so i'm haunting forever his house like i don't really you know unless it's subversive why would i want to watch that you know yeah um and the whole thing about how i hate all anime is like i don't ghost in the shell isn't good for any reason that has to do with it being an anime that's the thing um it's it doesn't even feel like an anime to watch it just feels like a good show um but yeah standalone complex uh is like the first season second season is um what individual 11 or second no it's called second gig um and then there's the movie and i think there's two other movies there's that solid state society i know there's the mini series which had like four episodes or so and that was uh ghost in the shell arise which wasn't bad but i um still thought it was fairly good um but honestly i'm a really big fan of ghost in the shell uh i think if you if you are a fan of soma i think you'll like ghost in the shell now i even think that the movie for live action movie for for a to take that ghost in the shell is very niche stuff to take that and adapt it to a mainstream audience version of what it is i think it did a pretty darn good job at making an approachable movie that most people could watch in the theater and get interested in my dad who's a huge fucking boomer he liked to the ghost in the shell live action movie and i'm curious how many people got interested in the show and that kind of content because they want the live action movie um there you go uh it's always that i really like full of an alchemist i do i've watched full metal alchemist i've even read the manga i had a friend who had the old books full metal alchemy really good uh but again i those things are good for reasons that aren't because they're an anime those are just good stories done well so yeah that's probably gonna confuse people you're saying that because they like they probably don't know what you mean when you say that well here's the thing when you have a bunch of characters on a beach together just explaining out loud all of their motivations and character just blurting it out i think that's lazy shitty writing it doesn't matter if it's in an anime or not so well yeah the show's good anime is simply medium classification right like it doesn't really tell you anything necessarily but there are some trapping slash tropes that come with them that can be very frustrating and are present in a lot of them yeah and if i was going to say what is my least favorite part of ghost in the shill is a series it's the parts that have to do with anime it's the the cutesy anime robot sort of stuff that feels super out of place but it's just in there because anime trope um you know if i could get rid of that part i certainly would change it in a heartbeat um it doesn't benefit for being anime um it i just feel like it's good despite it not because of it i get to play as grima belch oh you are you've been drinking some carbonated uh i'm i'm drinking booze right now i i'm just about done with my first blue moon belgian white bellion unleash the urochai blood frenzy what does that mean is that like a attack up i don't know fine let's unleash the blood frenzy there i did it also dude the urochai captains have nine nine nine nine ap nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine geez i want to say uh very much of protesting german right there nine nine nine nine nine wait what was that well i guess i think they were protesting germany i was like a protesting german um i remember when i was a lot younger and i noticed in video games that things would max out at nine nine nine nine is stuff like that like you could have 99 somethings or 999 somethings or 99 99 like why is that uh how why why is the max of something always just a bunch of nines and then i learned that well if they added another digit to the things that you could have then you know then you might as well max it out at the next thing when we go all the way up nines as high as you can go without getting to the next you know value but that was you know it's one of those things i remember as a kid being confused about and then i learned is like oh i see learning is gay also wow greema's almost dead what the fuck greema you suck i hate him black speech oh my god here here goes i'm gonna cast some black speech you guys ready oh good thing barith or miss uh also have any of you played hotline miami yes i haven't but i've heard very fun little game recommend it hey also thoughts on scott pilgrim versus the world haven't seen it haven't seen it still haven't seen it still when it came out it i haven't seen it since i thought it was neat and edgar right is showing himself off as a great editor you know what i was kind of surprised by tonight was that there wasn't really a big discussion between us and the drinker about whether or not the vaccine would have worked because i remember on twitter he seemed to be on board with the idea that yeah sure that like the vaccine uh could you know could have worked because that's just uh i don't know what the story establishes i guess the characters believe that it would work so we should operate under the assumption that it would i'm fine operating under the assumption that it would it still creates a huge amount of issues and problems in the world with no distribution of what they're gonna do with it and what their plans are and you know actually creating one of the phrase i'm fine with the idea that it could work and that they believe it could work and they're justified in believing it could work i don't think that's where the problems are for the most part where like i don't think i'm okay with assuming it can work um mainly because the more i get told about how vaccines work the more i'm like this is absolute bullshit what they're doing yeah like i don't know that we can rely on that just like if you lack the knowledge of how you know police fireman medics how how anything procedural works then the thing that the show is showing you is just true it's something we should accept it's like i don't know like i said if you're gonna break away from how things work in real life i think you just need to do the whole unobtainium thing just bring in something that isn't real and say like this is how i certainly wouldn't have gone with vaccine as my no they would have been better off if they'd called it the cure and then maybe i do cure we have a cure we can prevent it we could reverse it when we have an anti-fungal spray or something yeah i actually um saw two videos going in depth on how it works and basically at every level they're just not doing the right thing it's all insane nonsense and like you know the last of us both one and two they have like certain breaks from reality one thing that i thought about was everyone in these games seems to have like perfect teeth like where are all the dentists and orthodontists and in this world but also like uh gas power generators and the fact that there's any working vehicles when all the gasoline would have soured by that point without the use of refineries yeah and as much people say these are nitpicks like not really unfortunately uh i'm like i'm happy to say okay well obviously if gasoline is still working at this point then it just works somewhat differently than how it does in our world however when it comes to a vaccine we don't have anything proving definitively that fungal vaccines work any differently in that world than they do in ours whereas because of the fact that we see running cars and we see working gas power generators obviously gas would have to you know work differently in that world than than in ours be funny if that's realistic or or even good writing but on like infection day for the narrative on the news as the old story opens it's like it's been five years now since patril is on has been discovered you know an infinitely perfect gas alternative you know before they start it's like hey we've got it sorted our narrative will make sense and yeah the the teeth is definitely a nitpick i'm just pointing out like well is it i mean if abby didn't have good teeth she couldn't have bitten off the fingers of i'll do she bites down all of it feet feet feet teeth that break off and it's just like oh then again i can't imagine that they have a very high sugar intake so that probably has a lot to do with all the chocolate bars that you eat maybe they found oh yeah i guess the chocolate bars you're constantly working down oh yeah but you think in their day-to-day lives like sugary stuff wouldn't be very common at all like in the old days people didn't have to get a lot of sugar at all if basically none so i would say this like regarding the gasoline if they at least establish that yeah there's still people that are like working on on like drilling oil and there's gas refineries that are around if they like showed that's like oh neat little world building you know i could believe that i could believe in how how long has it been in the last of us too 20 well 20 that in 24 years people could get some small you know stuff operating to a degree nothing big but if every community had a truck or two and it was you know a very valuable resource like yeah i could believe that yeah you say some around here people have little tiny pumps everyone so i'll see them if you're driving out in the country and stuff you'll see out in the field someone might have a little might have a little pump a little pump i mean they have guys like working on a hydroelectric dam in the first game so there's people that have some type of knowledge of engineering um that believe yeah there's probably like some oil drilling plant somewhere in in this universe that gets when we're all the oil is is coming from but we don't see that i'm not necessarily saying it's bad writing but i would i would have given it points for stronger world building if they if they have that this is the world building category and a lot of writers don't care about world building unfortunately especially when they're in the um you know in a real world setting they're like who cares it's like oh well yeah stuff like i mean rationing of items and lights uh lights can only be turned on after a certain hour and people are outside as much as possible to make use of daylight and cut down on gas consumption and there's huge like this thing there'd be farm every every every bit of land that you could convert into farmland would be farmland like all of the area outside of um the first settlement Jacksonville right uh Jackson Jackson that would all be farmed it would all have plants grown in it every every speck of place that you could start growing food on you would because it takes a lot of land and a lot of crops to support people who are clustered in a city um and then i mean that it kind of explains why Seattle is in the condition that it is because i mean the people that tried running a farm in shaz do you see how that fair oh yeah like farming is a big deal we take it for granted now especially but it's kind of a very very important thing and most of the people in that society would probably pretty much almost inevitably become involved in farming it's like you gotta grow that food there's more you know understanding of far bigger video games than there would be in real life at this point is from general knowledge it's like i know how to farm on stardew valley some said ammo would be a huge problem and i don't think it would be that much of a problem uh because when you when you factor in how much ammunition exists right now and then you take away 95 percent of the population or however much it is that is a shit ton of ammunition um that that's that's being spent and that'll just be lying around um and making it you wouldn't have to make super high quality stuff but just going off of what is available because ammunition doesn't really degrade um in the sense that like i i have ammunition from world war two that i use in one of my rifles and it works perfectly fine ammunition lasts a long time it in 20 years it's not going to degrade to the point where you can't use it at all well it says 60 percent of the population now and we're talking about like 20 years of a lot of people fighting and uh i mean there is a ton of ammunition that's out there um i can at least yeah burning through it would be like it would be hard to burn through all the ammunition that's okay and reloading exists i the really the only thing would be i i mean and once somebody finds factories that produce it then it's about access to raw materials but you can make casings out of everything from brass to steel steel is generally the cheap stuff that you buy you can't reload it but you know it's cheap to get access to and raw materials are everywhere in terms of scrapping um i don't think that that would be the biggest issue you just tell people not to waste it because you want it to last as long as possible because it won't it's not like it goes bad so you might as well use it what's the idea like like what if they went back to using muskets once um like you go through all the ammo like i i know that sounds retarded to you probably but um so you'd have to make things that are specifically designed to be muskets because you can't just i don't think that you can make a you could probably make musket balls that were the caliber of like if you had an ak-47 i don't know of mechanically there isn't a reason why you couldn't have a musket ball in them um they wouldn't be very big they would be not very effective um and the because modern black uh modern fast burning you know black powder is different than the powder that you would use in a musket like you couldn't you couldn't take an old rifle that was designed to fire like older slower burning accelerants and use put a modern bullet in there and expect it to be the same like pressures would be different and all that stuff so i think you might theoretically be able to but at that point i'm wondering why you don't just focus on like bows and maybe blunder buses that kind of thing where you just patch it into a just a tube of a sort but i yeah i i think at that point it'd be better to just teach people to just get bows and arrows honestly because that's the kind of stuff we know you could make in a relatively primitive fashion and have them still be effective or slings i bet people would be would start using slings again because slings will fuck you up like the roman army use slings yeah um they just get led melt it down into kind of bullity shaped things and they'd sling them at people it'd fuck your day up yeah the idea of them using like bows and crossbows i mean that makes a lot of sense especially in the last of us those are silent weapons and they're not going to drop even though in actuality if you actually uh fire a bow there's a pretty loud sound that comes from uh from the snapping of the the bow string uh not as like a gunshot but oh yeah they're definitely way more quiet and if you break a bow or you lose an arrow it's not nearly as big of a deal as oh shit we misplaced a rifle you know that those would be things that are like if you had a quartermaster for jackson then they each gun would be you know tagged and catalogued and they'd want to know where they are at all times so that they could pass them out and know that they're coming back and maintain them and stuff like that um they would be very valuable resources and the idea that everyone just runs around with them and you don't take advantage of all the guns being dropped everywhere is he's like uh i think one of the big things that i one of the big things that bothered me about the last of us is that they send people out to clear areas of clickers and they don't give them armor like clickers are guys that will bite you and claw you and nash at you and you're just sending them out there without armor and it doesn't take much to stop claws and teeth and and if i was told the okay your job is that next week you're going to go out and you're going to clear this area of clickers and i'm like okay if anything i'm wearing multiple shirts i'm wrapping my forearms in my neck and leather and heavy scarves and stuff like that like these people are not dressed for the job that will potentially kill them um i'm reinforcing my just all the i've taken leather straps and putting it around my neck and i is like think of just wood it's just wood and metal braces and all this stuff that you could pass out to people so where would they get armor in the chat is like again these are clickers that are just clawing at you with their hands and trying to bite you with their teeth if you just wear really thick clothing they can't get like um i was forced to walk across loads of armor in the game plenty of yeah also there's body armor and that stuff does not degrade in 20 years by the way that ballistic enough um but just wearing thick clothing um you can't bite through it um what what is it uh i should know this is shad talks about all the time it's um the the padded armor that people would wear that's made out of tightly woven fibers um gambas and gambason is what it is um it's very very it'll stop swords it could stop arrows very effective armor that's made out of very tightly woven fibers it can be replaced in segments it's just it it bugs me that a world that's trying to be very realistic doesn't have stuff like that and i think that would go a long way like they'd be outside they'd be checking each other's armor essentially all their paddings and everything securing it making sure it's tight and say all right we're going in then they go in together like that would be a really great touch i mean look at what i just sent in the in the um group chat like i i at least wear that you know i mean honestly yeah like this is your life at stake and you have all this material that you could tie to you with an even embarrassing looking man in this post apocalypse and then he survives where the people die and he's like yeah that's so funny now huh okay he's just wearing a neck pillow they always go for the neck the clickers always go for the neck so yeah i'm just i'm like i'm shocked people don't protect their bodies like these guys are trying this should be easy clearing up clickers should be fucking easy job stuff like it's you could in your house right now you could create armor that would render you pretty much fully protected from a click even if it's just putting on five shirts at once like you're pretty much solid because they chew into that shirt and they're gonna be stuck for a little bit like meh also um i'm in helms deep and every single npc is talk toable they'll give you a line or a few sentences and they're all different they've gone further than the last was to a good job all the npcs in the opening area the last was to wouldn't talk to me i felt very alone except for like a water too but the the npcs in this game all have names yes are any season this game named amber look this person right here it says rohan villager that is her name she was born for this he's gonna fucking nail this that's a very uh very interesting last name villager loads of people are from the villager family in this area it's like i don't know that that villager guy he was he wouldn't waste in any time this is a great map in killing port two by the way it's just cool whenever you see this map in anything it follows the same model so it's like familiar no matter what you're playing it in because everyone follows the same sort of design which they should get old whorlms doralp wonder where king thaddon is um hi rags hey hi rags hello hi ra giz no i don't know why they did this but they did it so we're supposed to go game there's lots of red bloops on the map tell me what to do with these bloops with infamous if you were good you could get abilities that help keep civilians safe and restrain enemies if you were evil you have more powerful aoe attacks and civilians are health packs and bombs yep yeah all right your weapons here take any of your choir speak with argon's friends and return to me okay i would say like uh while it seems like it's more rewarding to play as a bad guy an infamous than a good guy um what's interesting is that when you have a good reputation um civilians will actually attack the bad guys that you're fighting um like once you're maxed out on hero reputation which makes it a little easier than everyone attacking you because oftentimes if you're you know if you're a bad guy someone will just run up to you and start punching you or throwing rocks at you i could take him guys i could throw in rocks so fucked up i'm currently playing red dead redemption 2 and that game is not only better than the last of us but it also has a better revenge plot line plot lines yeah that's what fringy uh mentioned to me he was he was like it's just another example as right to say earlier just everyone keeps bringing up all the games that did better because the last of us two isn't new and they look new they kind of seem new in terms of release but what it's doing ain't new we can all see right through it um he's obviously a massive e-walk damn i like how the best doctor the fireflies could find to make a cure was a veterinarian um i don't think he's a vet vet would be an extremely valuable um asset in any community especially with the added value of what livestock would be that's part of what makes um the guy at the beginning bigot sandwich guy um uh what's his name uh sef sef that's part of what makes sef apology so meaningful i think is that he gives her steak sandwiches steak is super valuable like in the medieval ages people didn't eat steak that much it was mostly like pig pigs and chickens yeah he didn't just make her some shitty pb and j she like he he made her some top of line luxury steak yeah like steak is not something you're having often yeah if you're on that restaurant too like he's probably a pretty good cook imagine after the scene where she leaves the house it plays another scene where she's arriving um at back back at the settlement and she walks up to sath and she's like i forgive you and then the credits roll making the message nice and clear someone said steak doesn't belong in a sandwich too it's tough and chewy like what the fuck this guy where you are fucking wrong do they not have any meat in in sandwiches then because to be fair steak and even chicken and ham they can all get chewy yeah they can i'm not sure about that one but there'd be a lot of pigs and a lot of chickens and they probably use the chickens mostly for eggs they just they keep them because eggs are really good eggs are good for you anyone that that steak does not belong in sandwiches is obviously never had a tritip sandwich or a snake or a sandwich must not have eaten the components oh is this Legolas oh hello Legolas oh i got a cut scene for each of Aragorn's friends that's what they're called Aragorn's friends i feel like they have names but okay all right well i guess if that's uh every black character that was introduced in both the last of us games have either died or they committed suicides the concerned face i guess yeah goes to have i kneel druckman hates the black man of what sorry have either died or committed suicide that sounds like pages all died well yeah i mean you got it covered with dead if uh mm-hmm if you mentioned committed suicide too but you know abby's original character model was black they knew the original doctor was black she was changed after further development of last of us to debate settled that's true really that's yeah actually there's there's some uh concept art of her where she's clearly not white hmm i think last here let me show you our slash last of us to the free folk of last of us two subreddits somebody chat said then i will fap is one of them have you seen senator abby strong that sounds funny i can already imagine such memory oh look it's aragorn is he one of aragorn's friends yo what up aragorn's over there talking to himself these are no soldiers all eyes and god has emptied 10 000 strong at least i shall fap is one of them abby you killed my father joel do you have any idea how little that narrows it down yeah it was a bb show i think i was either moving left to right mauler you might want to pull us up on screen like who the fuck are you or here i'll just copy image abby design and she's black hmm no it's just the lighting yeah you're right you know in that case i do not think it is just the lighting all right someone said um yeah so to be honest it'd be so much funnier to have to play as a girl that looks like she could bench press the planet someone said in reply she almost looks like a character that's supposed to get a response out of us from doings and not from a comical physique yeah everyone this is the last of us to read it isn't it and everyone's like yeah she looks so much she looks like a normal person not this comically oversized monstrosity hey they have to justify a hulk smash gameplay okay look i do love running up to enemies and giving them the fat garalt special as abby okay that is actually legitimately enjoyable yeah when cosmo said like it's like the shitty side of the gameplay it's like i don't know i think i preferred abby's gameplay actually i'm not sure you know she has like the crossbow and like a bunch of like significantly better weapons than ellie has so it's like okay that's enjoyable on that front at least i forgot to mention that like i really like the addition of jumping off a ledge onto an enemy pressing swear midair and killing them as you land on them fucking great love that addition look it's kimmy the one from a movie finally someone i could speak face to face with so uh kimmy how do you feel about frodo you or do you want him to live or die to mention the word frodo and kimmy's like still alive as far as we know all right man all right this clip into my face this is my first time catching ifab live and i am pledging to stay until the last super chat is red hi rags hello you just saying lines from the movie in different places that's yeah it's it's because they can play the the audio as if they've got the voice actors there i assume anyway i don't know if they actually got original lines for this they did from um in mckellan i know that much the surgeon is clearly shorn king he identifies as a transracial dude ah all questions answered you just have michael jackson skin syndrome abby poops with the door closed that is not true she is definitely the type to open that door i'm just saying open the door just your dominance in every uh every imaginable way you know i've spoken to all the people now do i win do i do it i think i did i have any quests i'll probably answer all of our soldiers are trained to be exactly defend helms deep and talk to gambling all right yeah gambling here i come buddy i'm ready to defend helms deep do you remember this part of the game rags you have like several sections each one with each of the characters and they're all super OP like your characters are okay i guess but our going has like fucking five hit move and you're like oh man i want that which you do get eventually are you holding storm breaker um it's a pretty good pretty good hammer you just randomly find it in uh helms deep and apparently it's yours now like fuck gimli i guess he's not allowed it i am and gimli his he likes his older he likes his i guess gimli's got his own you don't you don't need no gay hammer but yeah pretty neat if i say so myself and you know i'm hardcore leveling my hard hod out of everybody so hopefully he can hit people in the face with this thing and it'll work out really well um the game changes the doctor's race and half the enemies you kill aren't white is that even half the enemies you kill aren't white with the focus on bow skills they should rename the game horizon zero talent oh oh shit don't don't don't explosive arrows are really useful for bloters shit immersion but justifies their inclusion imo oh well the point wasn't that they could simultaneously have mechanical value it was that it's clearly fucking awesome to shoot an arrow at something and it explodes like that's yeah and we're talking about how they mechanically arid odds with their theme which a lot of people have pointed out even just right feel like i don't know if if you have access to explosives of that caliber there might be way better uses than a redundant arrow that is gonna explode people oh god showing the movie no step if you're playing music to your shit um i'm thinking cosmo variety hour is the main villain of efab now i don't know well who's the isn't it diabeto isn't he like the dominant overlord i don't know uh i don't know he's being served by cosmonaut you know pretty well his bad takes on like everything so i think like yeah the twitter antics that happen as well as the the videos and the his poor takes that he provides it's possible a battle shall begin now a desert eagle chambered in point five oh a e to face you'll be lucky if you still have a face yeah it's a big big bullet oh look i'm legolas oh i am legolas legolas's most powerful sword attack let's do it oh wow he just dealt a casual 11 000 nice why even i don't even know what i'm doing let's see how shit my moves are compared 1700 oh thanks god legolas is here you can't use his arrows you'd think that would be something that all right you think yeah that's a good point that chat's raising cosmonaut variety hour is just his me whereas movie bob is actually kind of repugnant as a person well like if one of them was given power one of them would lead to the destruction of humanity while the other would probably just do some silly shit i don't know so yeah there is a difference i'll give you that i don't know the way that cosmonaut talks about like the rich people and everything true but have some concerns there i suppose i definitely don't want to if i had to choose dictator of the world the cosmonauts yeah i'll go with cosmonauts all right yeah it wouldn't be good but man under movie bob it'd be way worse rat rags the ladders have health bars the ladders have health but yeah fuck up those ladders it's like dnd you know doors and ladders they have health bars it's weird you gotta fuck yeah you gotta destroy yeah destroy the ladders you think you're just gonna hit a ladder once and it breaks no they got health bars oh they got replaced give me my perfect mode game i need it that's kind of funny though that these two orcs are standing there and this dwarf just runs right between the two of them and hits the ladder they're like oh no he's coming for oh wait no fuck it up that ladder why would i oh orc healer is better for urechai here let's see if this does better on no that's way worse why would i use that legolas just tell me what your best move is okay racist um i'm using to hear all this conversation about clips versus magazines given i just took home an m1 garand earlier today which is the only gun i know of that primarily uses primarily uses clips it's certainly one of the ones that instantly comes to mind but yeah they use man liquor must have been like what what made it so the clip entered common vernacular so hardcore exactly i don't know it's probably just a carryover from it might just be that it stuck around from when clips were far more common and people just sort of it just stuck because you could have because even as clips were being phased out and more people used magazines a lot of weapons came with a magazine but you would load them with clips and the magazine would be internal even the smle's and world war one they had a detachable box magazine but you were expected to keep the magazine in there at all times and you'd load it with clips on the top fucking had all just casually thrown out a triple critical jesus buddy impressing in front of you see he's just trying to impress legolas i knew it like i'm really good you should take me with you on your fellowship fuck these guys he wants to replace gimley he can join gimley it'd be fun they can they can hunt Frodo together i'll watch it uh britain man i assume that's a superhero i watched cosmonauts video and stopped halfway because i couldn't take his stupidity not a great video yeah definitely um still maybe not as bad as his worst what's that was what it's worth i was about the point where he said that joe is not a beloved character which is that the dumbest thing that cosmonaut has ever said he's so sure of it it's so weird to be so sure of something so wrong it's like you know the definition of the word so it's like what do you do with okay that's not what beloved means if you think he means altruistic i guess so yeah okay it's a weird one you're just mad that joe is dead but joe is not a beloved character why why would he's facing his audience telling him this and he's like you guys don't love him like what what a weird circumstance it makes me just want to ask are you trolling like are you actually just trying to fuck with people a little bit it must be i need that healy blade at some point comifonia ain't america hello again rags hello not only did they swap jesse for old man joe uh troi baker recorded a line specifically for that trainer you think i'd let a trailer you think i'd let you do this on your own yeah they um they openly admit to this in a way that's like you can see it on their podcast i need to watch the rest of it where um they talk about the leaks um it's the troi baker ashley johnson and neil druckman and they're like yeah man we went to such great lengths to hide like the plot details we even you know had new animations created and um voice lines recorded that weren't even in the game like as if it's like a really cool thing they did it's like what the fuck no like you you you sold people on a game that didn't even exist it's like the i don't know man it's just it's not cool but i guess they didn't could it is it possible they didn't realize like that they were doing that and that they thought they were just protecting people from plot leaks like hmm if you had to choose to do one thing on repeat forever watch all about woman or play last of us too there's only a right answer to that question it's a no-brainer one of those experiences is wonderful the other makes you want to kill yourself mm-hmm go legolas they've done the replacing a character model in the trailer thing front-charged four and hector al-qaza as well but nobody complained about that probably like i'm assuming because this happened for um hulk in the infinity war trailer the reason is that um we know now that their plot line was joel gets obliterated in the opening and the rest of the game is playing as someone who killed him you'd want to hide the shit out of that because if you sold the game as that premise and trailer wise people would choose not to buy it but that's why they hid it meanwhile something like infinity war it doesn't want to tell you who's fighting who at what times um so it's like the hulk could be in the final fight the hulk could also just be in the opening it could be bruce banner inside the fucking uh inside what's it called jessica matilda something help us to yeah i can't remember it had a name like jasmine i don't know the point being um this is this is why it's all inference like we would try and figure out whether or not they hid things maliciously or not i have to say like if the appeal for the first game for so many people was joel and ellie's relationship and you are marketing the game based on yeah you're gonna see more of the these two characters that you love and you know it's not going to be that that's where it crosses over into you're selling people something that uh they think that they will want but it's actually the opposite of what they'll want yeah the fuck up that just crosses a line for me but infinity war didn't change footage did it yeah they showed the hulk in wakanda fighting with the rest of the heroes and that doesn't happen he's just bruce banner i first shot in the first trailer like that literally isn't in it like where they're all running towards the camera so it's like yeah that's a little bit deceptive but it's like he's still in the movie he still fights so it's like it's just kind of something to mislead a little bit and it's very small we're not talking about the two main characters like it's it's uh hulk whether or not he's actually hulk fighting in that battle which he isn't but i wouldn't consider that a loss until end game where they i'd say bungle it a little bit there's a couple of shots from the mi fallout trailer that are not in the the film there's one where ethan is like swinging from some like zipline that's above the dance floor of the grand palais and then the final one he's in the helicopter and it looks like he's about to collide with a truck it would basically seem like just about impossible for him to actually like uh raise the helicopter up and avoid the hitting the truck um and i remember deleted scenes right like those weren't like filmed to mislead in any way like that was just cut from the movie right uh the grand palais one certainly was a deleted scene i don't know about the helicopter one um i said that that was on twitter wrong i i think he said that that was deleted as well that they didn't have time to put it in oh and like the the beginning of the trailer as well i had some shots that definitely aren't in the film where it's like um there's some dead soldiers near the uh the like medical camp in cashmere but the thing is is like that's the like the main draw of the movie it would be more analogous to like if they um if they killed ethan hunt off in the first 30 minutes of the movie and then you're all the trailer yeah yeah and i think you have to take a case by case and really go for like what are they trying to say versus uh what the thing is and that's why i would say we're not really mislead with infinity war i don't think um hyper hulk fans might have felt they were but uh the last was two when you see all of it like oh i start to get a little bit annoyed like on behalf of the people who would consume all that shit like damn they were really selling a narrative that doesn't exist in the game whatsoever like if you sell people a lot of it has to do with the fact that if you if you sell everyone as like it something's advertises hey if you buy this carton of eggs it's 12 eggs and they open up and it's like oh actually there's 13 eggs oh you get a free egg no one's going to go i want my money back that was false advertising no a lot of it will be oh wait i got what i expected no what i didn't expect but in a bad way oh now i'm upset it's more like yeah there's 12 eggs in here but they're all rotten still don't like to be surprised in a bad way people can be surprised in a good way and they'll be fine with it but it's stuff like last of us that makes you really question that sort of thing dude i can earth spirits only smash hard routes on the on the ladder 4900 damage counter attack i'm gonna get i know right i'm gonna get the fucking tree to attack the ladder this is this is top tier this is tree be wood violent wow i know wow oh no the ladder was immune to stun i guess the ladder can move freely now no i was fun there's a ladder and like a hell dude it's not even immune it lied to me that the ladder is stunned look it's got the little symbol on it the ladder is stunned man you guys are really trying to take this ladder down i know there's so much effort into it there we go we got it moller yes it's an inanimate fucking object you're an inanimate fucking object sorry cool yeah fucking in bruise everyone should see it it's really good i got my sister to watch that movie for the first time recently and they were like cracking up at every other line the dialogue in that movie is immaculate yeah it's really good remember good stuff um you should play plants versus zombies for super chats plants for zombies is good rat i can look i can lower the armor rating of the ladder oh my god that's awesome the ladder has lower armor oh no someone's rising on the ladder boo um but yeah i mean possible joel killed jeffrey apstein i mean obviously last of us infinite joel going on a quest to kill joel for revenge for killing joel using joel see i think that actually see a lot of people make fun of that like oh it doesn't make sense like it does though oh fucking legolas missed as if that's possible please tell the group that a revenge story was the original plot for the first game but it was scrapped for being unrealistic let that sink in yep and now think of how shitty neil must feel about that oh yeah he didn't get to make the game he wanted with the first game and everyone loved it and adored it and now he got to make the game that he wanted to make and people hate it that must sting really bad no he just knows that they don't understand his genius clearly he's two three smart five me those fools don't know what they had he's getting 10 out of 10 scores from the gaming journalists that's all that matters to him infinite they know what they're talking about they said the last Jedi was awesome and he loved the rise of skywalk even the people who wanted to fend the last was too appropriate like oh he thinks that's good okay ignore that that's fine whatever which that's shut up fucking out of manner i can't attack a ladder feels bad man imagine missing them rags can you uh i'll give me one sec the image is loading he'll be there in a sec all right uh you guys are the michael jordan of podcasts by the way you should watch michael jordan highlights because he's pretty good at basketball that's why here he's Michael jordan of podcasts pretty pretty high praise thank you very much different story for uh baseball though um rags you want to you want to read this out let's see um let me zoom in 10 out of 10 IGN if you don't like it it's probably because you don't get the subtle nuance and me say seeing uh it making a statement about society and the subversion of expectations of the player is a complex metaphor for the dichotomy of the duality juxtaposition of man-human condition challenging the underlying principles we take for granted you're supposed to feel bored so you can empathize with a character no sony i'm not just going to give them what they want digile spit yeah that's yeah this is what he's going to be remembered for unless he fucks up again you can join d&d ryan johnson and uh i guess alex curtsman there's there's a couple at this point quite a few yeah that's the thing all they're going to be remembered for at least so far is how they fuck something up how they ruin to something they took something people loved and just pooped on it gave it a big ol poop big ol poopy only idril has two mana draining moves it's kind of nuts who's your present michael jordan michael jordan a long father upload a bit shoot or i'll declare war automatic uploads could be set up in like 10 seconds grow your audience uh like i said it was more so i was probably gonna do it if i got booted from youtube but it's yeah i mean set up a backup is never a bad idea i suppose especially if youtube go boom boom a blue tissue hello why are you doing this so late imagine how utterly unstoppable joe would be in avenging ellie that would get dark quickly uh i mean yeah we'd all be willing to get out also we're late to to match everybody's timelines do you think rags and i would want to keep you guys up this late no no not i mean what time is it for me i don't fuck it's midnight oh my god it's fucking midnight it is 6 a.m for me wow this is why i said i'm after this is done i'm gonna fucking crash double critical uh since you were playing gamecube games for super chats may i suggest fire emblem path of radiance it's really good so i remember that i liked it i'm partially avoiding games that i've not played because otherwise i could get stuck or need to pay attention more so if you know what i mean um but instead i'm playing third age and the third age is super like i i can i can mostly get through it you gotta you really know what you're doing with this game wow triple critical jesus also you know that move where i can just resurrect my team infinitely i haven't had to use it in ages oh no i didn't even have to use the op bullshit move that the game gave me it's just four guys staring down a ladder like who will win we fucking got this i can fucking do it whoa triple critical oh there it goes i think we go like a set of third ladders i don't know if i know you'll go lad rampage triple critical oh look at all these upgrading this is amazing batman beyond an old bruce wane has a lot to contribute to the new batman but neil would like to be nor he's old kill him like yeah is so i can't remember is a didn't any good i think so i think so i just never got to grips with the other characters because at this point i just like my main three you know yeah these are my boys too late to swap now mm-hmm which probably would have been better for this game to start with the six and be able to choose based on what i don't know what you find interesting about each one or they should have had you play half the game as the other half the game is one group and half the game is the other and then they meet in the like a third act and you get to use them all together and have won three kill the fathers of the other three and then you play as them seeking revenge for 10 hours oh my god trust me this will work fuck everyone's lawn we can make it about revenge yeah maybe each movie had its own group of people that were you know in that area or that zone or something then they all meet at a later point and yeah that would be cool please make an e-fap on girlfriend reviews last of us two video also love you rags all thank you very possible in the future i shall look into it lots of last of us two videos check out there's like a thousand and we're just picking ones that are the work the best i suppose because a lot of people want lots of different ones covered you know how it be um after watching go ahead no no i was just gonna say apparently some people are not understanding the context behind my latest super chat oh do they not know the meme just in case they haven't seen your playthrough so during my playthrough i guess someone was very upset that um i was shitting on the game which by the way it doesn't need to be loved by everyone or hated by everyone for me to fucking choose one of those two i am very honest about my reactions to media i really don't mind going against all with the grain i thought that would be obvious by now but apparently not and someone was very upset with me for having a chat on the game and said i have lost all respect for you mola how embarrassing choosing between to be blinded by hate i have never thought of you more of an idiot than right now your critiques are poor haha the ending it's so great your critiques are poor calm the fuck down hold on a minute she'll lax your critiques are poor and you like you like took times just like you pause the game and you just read it out on stream and then everyone starts copying and pasting it the ending makes it your critique support no oh my good lord idril look what she just did to that ladder she's uh she's got some rage in her i'm gonna say that much old balls uh slow the attack rate of the ladder do it did 10 000 damage what the fuck i'm gonna i'll be right back after watching reviews and gameplay of the last was two i can say with certainty that bible man is a more honest and less emotionally manipulative form of entertainment even though it's trying to blatantly coerce children into christianity as someone who grew up on bible man i i know it's uh is it totally chris stuckman thing to say i 100 i agree um yeah i i'm on board with uh the bible man teaching you about values as you grow up i think that's great shit dude i think bible man would prime efab movies material oh it's uh i think rags really wants to check out bible man please do it it's actually not even efab movies like efab mini like it should just be a series efab reacts to bible man i see no reason why we can't it'll be wonderful i'm sure yeah like when that woman is on is on break is on hiatus you guys need to check out bible man i just realized you could infinitely farm these lads too because you just don't attack the ladders and you'll just keep getting enemies what are you what are you doing game i guess that the deterrent is people not wanting to spend this much time doing it you're like now it's boring cleaving wound i guess on you hmm um out in uremburg joel claimed was just following orders mate he was the orders it was old joel he can't escape judgment what having an old mental character that we know from the last game screw that kill him there's a lot of that lately humiliate the older older heroes it's almost about what's going on there a bit of a weird man because i like old people they're cool they have knowledge the glowing reviews about a depressing zombie game during a pandemic shows how detached from reality and unrelatable game journalists are in contrast to everyone else greetings mohler and bonjour flags um only a couple of the reviews i've seen actually mention the fact that it's fucking covid times in relation to the game you'd think more of them would like damn what a coinkie dankle i think that like yeah some of the backlash has gotten more intense because of the fact that people probably wanted something that wasn't this miserable playthrough during this time um and then also releasing it on father's day weekend was uh an extra kick in the nuts for some people hmm so it's like i you know no bullshit made a video saying that nightdog tried ruining father's day and i don't think that this was an intentional thing that they did it's just it's unfortunate timing well because mothers and fathers day are different for each uh country right uh june 19th was father's day weekend so i don't know what it was for uh pretty guys over in wales but i mean if they if they were gunning for the american one that's how they would have done it's just yeah i don't know that seems like a weird thing for them to want to do is that it's like fuck father's day like oh okay well i don't think that was intentional i think like i'm not sure if they chose that because the thing was that it was supposed to originally release in february and then it was supposed to release in may and then it got delayed and then the leaks happened because a fucking hero found the the 90 minutes of footage to leak to the internet and saved a lot of people their time and money and then forced 90 dogs hand to release the game earlier than they than they intended so um i don't buy the whole oh they were trying to ruin father's day but it's just unfortunate timing that's all bye bye ladder now the last was to is the tlj of video games agreed the real the last was to joel fights the dawn if it was the real last was to those two wouldn't be fighting the joel team and fuck up that girl would be forming a fellowship to defeat abbey she hasn't even done anything in the story yet but they have to defeat her she has to be stopped at all costs oh man i'm running out of lembas that feels bad man greater action points oh gosh there we go let's do that a 56 of those things holy schmizelms can we now say that the phrase subverted expectations now means we intentionally made it suck i mean most of the time that seems to be how they're using it they're like hopefully nobody notices how shit this is that's the attitude which is a shame oh so burning expectations seems to be just a fancy way of saying it's anti-climactic it used to mean something way better that's what i'll say the vision should make sense whether or not you wanted to this is probably cosmo variety i was the worst video he is such a smug idiot in this video this review feels like an angry conversation with someone offscreen in an actual review yes it's weird i don't know why he was addressing arguments that like no one gives a fuck about why it was a weird man for sure so there's ladders oh yeah uh last was one did not have a happy ending it was bittersweet with a hopeful undertone which is uh why it was so thought-provoking i mean yeah i think um happy that they're together that you know they can go and do stuff they have each other their relationship can continue to develop um certainly very hopeful i think of course the plot line coming to that kind of a close is like oof well that's the way it goes i suppose and the in this world is rough lots of lots of eviltisms and bad shloops but what kind of good good shit can we carve out of it right that's that's the that's the nice looking at it yeah you can't blame us we have to we have to adhere to the rules of the world that we arbitrarily made so yeah but you know we can still have abby survive getting spacked in the head with a hammer we can still have yeah tommy living from of a fucking getting shot in the face why why why why oh she didn't miss much good my rags i'm planning on upgrading my pc including the cpu do you have any general advice in choosing the right cpu no not really i'm not a big tech guy especially when it comes to cpu stuff um i think it would be better for you to to take a look at some reviews in relation to what you're trying to use it for be it video editing or for gaming purposes to see what people you know look a lot of you know the resources online but i think you'd be better doing that than having me recommend something to you um because i'm not i'm not a tech guy uh you could probably get better advice from others um i'd recommend gamers nexus gamer nexus line it's tech tipped and all the other kinds of forums online talking about you know it talking about you know that get a list in your head i suppose of good ones that you'd want to choose from you can find lists of the best ones or the most budget friendly ones and then look up the individual reviews for those oh is that a point of contention tommy's gunshot um so yeah um yeah i think it's kind of weird that they would show him so the reason that i'll tell you why they did it the reason that they showed tommy getting shot in the back of the head is so that in that moment they could have the shock of a character dying they wanted the emotional resonance of that happening without committing to it like we can't see in my playthrough when i saw it happen i was like tommy's dead well fuck like cool you killed another one that was my reaction if i was invested i could have felt like oh my god like no favorite oh this is horrifying i'm so engaged now to defeat fun enough to defeat abby when in that moment you play as abby trying to kill ellie so again just fucking oh however he's not dead he's okay and and you might think to yourself well as long as it's not impossible to die for to live from a gunshot to the head it's okay i would i would question that logic quite significantly but um the likelihood is not only strained without committing yeah the likelihood is not only strained quite significantly from the act alone of surviving a gunshot to the back of your skull but uh it's stretched and stressed to the point of ridiculousness um when you have to consider that a wounded and broken two girls have to carry a guy with a gunshot wound in the back of his head to somewhere where you can get medical attention who knows where when both of them are pretty much gonna die at this point as well like i don't even know how he wouldn't have bled out by the time they got back to his fucking let's put it this way how far did how far back did they have to get him he's unconscious too obviously so they got a yeah because they they fell through the fucking floor at one point did they had the fight god that came so bad yeah that's the thing they they just fall through the floor abby just fucking hulks out and so for reference it is a major point of contention he's saying that he that he wasn't shot in the back of the head and i'll show the screenshot here from the exact moment i mean that was okay oh we wait we supposed to believe it grieves his head that bull is holding his brain yeah it seems pretty cut and dry just pull it up on screen uh yeah it's almost like which incredible piece of luck do you prefer this fucking game man that's blowing out the front of his skull yajin dies by getting shot in the cheek which is way more survivable than this like look at that now blood splash as well look at where look at how his head is oriented in relation to the gun which is like okay so the the reason why it's not fully lined up is because of recoil you know but man that's going into his brain oh tommy but used throughout the whole game he was shot when it shouldn't kill him instantly well he's gonna bleed out yeah like yeah assuming that doesn't kill him instantly which i imagine it would even if it doesn't kill him instantly like he is propped up medical attention well i mean let's not ignore the arrow through the leg there's a lot of ways to bleed the fuck out the amount of blood that comes out of him from that shot is intense yeah if you look at the shot before and after the blood comes out that bullet in terms of where the impact would be in the center that's going through his head yeah there's just like this line of dialogue where tommy just goes man it's a really good thing that i got that that metal skull implant you know before the outbreak occurred it's really saved my life yeah it wouldn't actually take away from the fundamental argument that it's manipulative as hell they want you to think he's dead yeah i wonder if they were originally going to commit to him being dead but then they needed a reason for ellie to get information on abby and they're like wait let's just pretend that fucking tommy survived i don't know because i don't think they actually cared about him as a character oh no not at all they didn't give a fuck they were just like oh he can do it i guess as someone that already like lived through it seeing your stream and you're like oh so this is a dream sequence when tommy shows up like oh he doesn't know i'm just like he's just waiting for the realization to dot on you as i said i was expecting them to do a thing where like eventually joel walks in they're all happy together and it would be like this is what could have been if not for evil like oh man damn that evil what would have made uh the game better as if joel did walk in and it turned out that that was real and everything that took place between that and uh and ellie and dina fucking was just a uh a weed induced fever dream but like instantly make the game better all those weed fumes yeah it was bad weed man rip weed oh man i defeated the ladders once again high five molla play the last five minutes of the last of us one stream from joel rescuing ellie then compared to the last cutscene from last of us two want to get guest reactions well i mean we all know what they are um and they're two very very fucking different experiences to say the least uh also can i skip that oh i can skip that sweet it's all very surprising shocking endearing the um the first one second one is more so everyone's in disbelief just like this is this is it this is hmm it's been seven years they won't remember what really happened it's like you can replay the first game no i don't think anyone would have done that beforehand that'll be weird right oh man fangorn bash doesn't even fucking kill them you're a useless tree just fyi oh dude i'm playing as fucking gimbo they did the monster mash it was a fanghorn bash bang horn as in horny is that what you're saying nice miss loser um and joel or you will watch your parents turn into zombies and eat your siblings fixed your story naughty dog and joel you'll watch your friends turn into zombies and eat your siblings i'm confused i don't know what to make of that why mubes brie your reaction to abs getting bent over is up there with a lobster flag the lobster flag the isle of bad flag by the way oh wait bw stopping a train with her bike and 1.2 billion oh these are all times where i've lost my shit laughing i guess um yeah the other one the the one with her in that scene that was scary for me because there was an element of like holy shit can my stream get taken down with this but i don't think anyone want to take down pepe or peepo sorry he's a he's a nice guy yeah yeah shame that he had to be ruined experimented with with such horrors he saw the awfulness i had a different uh way to censor that scene on my stream oh my god how'd you get the sex tape i uh had to kill a lot of people ellie should have killed joel for defending her that's in with her fucking attitude to the rest of this game what might as well have it's like fucking at this point the real end to the last verse two is when moorla jumped off the cliff as the roidosaurus at the first abyss actually the game pre-golfing incident yeah yeah a lot of people um feel that is the actual ending i think that's fair she she just wanders off into the wilderness she's like i don't give a fuck i'm gonna do all my all by myself incident she's just like trips and falls out of cliff damn dude gimley's damages shit can be the leg of last we're trying to say game elf supremacy yeah it's fucked up i think i i think my fucking dwarf deals more damage than him what does that say well if he actually hits him he's really tanky though he's got a lot of health true leaching blow uh bar show infinite let's let's play moorla rip it apart i didn't know why do i gotta do that you do it please don't make me it's not fair i think that is the big game last of us two is a great game it's a game that you have to endure straight white men don't understand enduring struggle ringy is white man in spirit slash s white man in spirit that's why he just doesn't get it doesn't make sense it's fucking one urukay man he's uh surviving a lot thanks to fucking misses which makes me very angry my favorite part about cosmonaut is how he asserts things and then never justifies why he asserted it true intellect cute oh it says intellectual you know to see until a cutal analysis he's definitely um a favorite on e-fair cosmonaut he's really bad at his job and it makes it very funny but also sad yeah sad you never know what he'll say next he's probably got some great quotes now as a as a whole geez he's gotta have some crazy ones remember when he said that may was an asshole because she found out that peter had a hand in the death of uncle ben and she walked out of the room that was insane it's the kind of shit we're like uh that scene was such a great scene in the film and he just shat all over it mm-hmm joel is not a beloved character when he the poo is a beloved character he's kind of the truth because that shit is true oh when i tell him to do durin wrath or whatever he fucking misses it but when barithel tells him to do it he hits it what's that about listen to that guy but not me it's gonna fucked up mola described the first game perfectly joel and joel and ellie are a golden nugget a gold nugget inside a pretty decent cake yeah i mean i feel like i agree with that yeah i guess i said it uh fringy in semi detail is twilight princess objectively bad oh i have to save that one for if ever we get a wild fringled i don't know if any of you guys any of you guys have played twilight princess or i did i didn't care for it i don't know if that's evil or not i don't know either i just now i didn't care for it it's fine joel killed eight ambers and one craze he certainly deserved it eight ambers good lord one craze horrifying a sequel in another universe and new characters but similar themes and ideas at the core can work persona after eternal punishment and final fantasy this is the thing i i don't see why it couldn't work just your narrative makes it so two like characters or three or one whatever get pushed out of the universe into a different one for whatever reason you can carry it on tremor ego says cosmonauts joel isn't beloved because i don't like him is basically joseph anderson's soma isn't a horror game because it's not scary why couldn't you just say you didn't find it scary why do you have to say it's not a horror game like what what are you what are you even trying to do confuse everyone i think it might have just been big brain time is talk about i don't know i'll talk about some people some of these people are they definitely are the i am enlightened by my own intelligence types wow they probably say that about us ranks don't you know yeah but we are actually smart and we say smart things and back them up fucking tearing into the concept of intel acutals with reckless abandon i've been chopping away at this one uroka for 10 years he's not dying i don't know if it's like a glitch at this point very healthy man let's try arable rage it's the same fucking move don't lie to me game um drinker where in scotland are you from you've been out into perth it's the best night out in scotland i will die on this hill uh once again i'm afraid i'll have to just hang on to that one i saw you dressed up as santa long man how could you betray halloween like this oh you see i was actually uh undercover i was collecting information about he was undercover as the right opinion i was seeing how they operate judging them for their disgusting habits seeing if uh is there anything really redeemable about them i couldn't find a single thing ellie's half of the game you have to explore to get a holster and a shotgun abby's half she just gets them that irritated me um i thought she had to pick up holsters like well i think well i think argue you have to find out the beaten path is ellie while abby's like given to you easier to get i don't think players players don't like working to get the same upgrades again that they already had yeah that's another thing that definitely hurts the game getting reset on your resources entirely is like oh okay that's not cool game now this game is dog doodoo no offense to dogs speaking of doodoo couldn't they couldn't be here sooner because i had to dig up and fix my mom's septic tank but take my money and watch waterloo wow you guys watched waterloo recently right or something i've seen you talking about it big nudes or not uh me no i know you the other the other two freaks in this call but fine you know fine i haven't heard of that waterloo i think i get easeburg that's the one that we've seen oh okay i mixed them up uh you dumbo's have time to talk about a game that you didn't really care about three weeks ago but can't spare a couple of hours to see hardcore henry shame oh i always cared about the last of us too i just they had to wait you imagine if i'd played it on release and then i was like tfa part three coming after the last of us two video fucking people would hate me they would sell my organs to an alien because they pay well um are you guys familiar with the youtuber savage books he's an editor by trade and does a really good job of seeing story breakdowns invite for him i am not aware of him no i don't know the channel now i see a couple of his videos he's pretty good he'd uh get a video on el camino about flashbacks and uh i think he did one on the the rise of skywalker recently it's pretty good stuff i'm bad news very positive about the film he adored it he is a bribe to avoid watching hardcore henry oof oh boy the plot thickens fighting the tide the thought thickens it they try and send the fucking explosion dudes at me and you blow them up in their places and for some reason they don't affect the people they stand next to what's that about i put myself in everything mm-hmm oh my turn my turn why does gimley's damage suck look i get it he's tanky but he's also super slow and has low reach it's not fair to take his damage away i'm upset on his behalf hi rags and mohler hello hello forgot to tell you last stream after third age you should play fellowship of the ring pretty sure it's on gamecube it is i never knew about it on on gamecube but i think we're probably done with the lord of the rings arc at that point at least with the games i'm playing uh who knows we'll cover more videos about lord rings roidosaurus shoots jesse in the face ali it must have been the wind i think that the the highlight of your uh play through mohler was that fucking yara just shooting a million bullets of that one seraphite oh yeah that's that's easily my favorite moment i would say that shit was wonderful and the fact that it happened so soon after the animation fuck up with the girl who like glitches into the wall before i can do the melee kill on it that's funny and then it being like capped off with the guy is like facing towards you and then when you actually kill him he's facing away yeah that's another one that a lot of people don't even notice it's like oh god it's a proper pile up that whole bit and it's wonderful i think what will really clinches it for me is is you like wheezing as you go like it's over how to kill the mohler i did a two pot response to cosmoporiety i was vid here inspired by your ds2 video with h bomb guy thanks for being such an inspiration no problemo sounds like cool it's a perfect video to do something like that with honestly um i would say it's it's pretty bad you know and so you have plenty to work with plenty of references and i imagine he's probably moved the fuck on you know cosmonaut he's probably working on whatever other stuff i think he did a warhammer video right um i don't know that he's invested in the last of us as an ip much at all which again it's fine a lot of reviews aren't but uh i reckon his video would have been better if he were invested but then again he's invested in star wars and look what we get with that so kind of hard to call it the accessibility options can also be useful use while making gameplay montages and machinimas turning off specific things that ai can do is definitely helpful in that regard yeah that's probably an unforeseen benefit i suppose i want to make a video slash review of the last of us too describing the development time including crunch delays then the leaks before finally asking if it was worth it for this art thoughts oh well they didn't say i want they just said want i assume it's saying they they want to but uh i mean i don't know if there's any videos existing that do that really well or if you're gonna like collect up all the information but um i think it's always gonna be worthwhile to have that video exist especially for like historical purposes because a lot of people aren't gonna remember how it was marketed eventually like i said i stayed the fuck away from it but um um oh boy did they fuck with people's expectations also higher high rags and moldy uh hey i want to touch upon like the trouble development a little bit in my video but it's not going to be because i'm mainly focusing on the product itself i don't want to get lost too much in uh the development behind the scenes drama um but it's it's worth thinking about like just the mental toll that this game took on the people who made it um every time that they delayed it it wasn't to alleviate the stress on the developers it just meant more months of crunch to them so like they they admitted it as as much to um jason schreyer when he was still with kotaku so i um i don't know about mike i don't think i'll be talking much i'll probably have like a throwaway line about marketing being shit but i'm probably gonna focus exclusively on what's in there except for reviews i do like throwing in some some hoax at them because they're funny especially the what do we have is the quote from cosmos something like the the enemies act like real people or some shit wonderful i mean yeah marketing i think is uh gonna be pretty important to how people are going to receive your game when it first comes out i think that um if it had been marketed like differently uh probably would have stung a lot less um i've i've admitted this to wolf recently uh i hated the gray when i first saw it because i saw it in the theater and that movie was not marketed um for how it actually was they they're like this is an like an action adventure movie where where leo nissan is going to punch wolves in the face it's not what you get when you go see the gray but when you rewatch it knowing that that's what you're gonna get then pretty fantastic movie yeah i'd say so great good shit yeah has the 1.2 billion song been played on efap yet yes i yeah it was great episode exactly but uh i believe we played on meme fap number four as well so what was it three i think it was the end of three meme fap three um but yeah 1.2 billion song is awesome billion uh some safes are in areas full of enemies i'd say it's way better to have the player open the safe or fail depending on their own speed rather than waiting for an animation speed of opening it like speed of finding the codes and putting them in or speed of listening and and acting on the the clicks i'm not sure i'm not certain alien isolation did codes and combos really well i mean most stuff does it pretty well i was just really surprised that you can basically brute force through all of the the safes without actually having to look at anything and again i think i'd be okay with that if it took a hell of a lot longer but my good golly gosh wow it does not take long in fact you can kind of speedrun it by scanning through sort of thing i thought the safe mechanics were better in the first because when joel finds the cold to the safe he doesn't need to look it up again he just has it in his mind it's weird i think their system worked way better in the first one to be honest with you and it's surprising that um they changed it and i think now it's made it a little uh more exploitable in multiple ways as we said earlier the um if you so it's not necessarily a game's fault if you look up the ways to beat it online because a lot of games can suffer in that way but there are easy ways to subvert that possibility as a developer and i just feel like that's that's an easy way to get around what you know that a lot of people will do yeah uh you got to check out girlfriend reviews garbo videos on this game neil himself commended them on twitter speaks volumes oh that's like the third time someone's talked about this girlfriend reviews one i shall have to have a luke say all metal alchemist handles a storyline about the cycle of violence and revenge far better than this game they never had scar save a zebra true scar was awesome this is the thing um once again by the way adding that on the pile of about a thousand other pieces of media that have been compared uh they didn't do well in terms of standing on the shoulders of giants did they as a piece of media not here now unless it's kind of something i think is worth being like guys the fuck so we're going to the legacy i remember having much more positive feelings about the last of us the first game before the second game came out it really goes to tell you like maybe you did not everything needs a sequel maybe making a sequel might actually make things worse if it was just let it be good yeah but they said no bill you are we do dear mohler great collab with critical drinker on the proper star wars film i must say the sundae ray would start would have made a great series some how does that word said sundae ray sund sundae ts un d e re i'm assuming one of you three now sund sundae ray i see it a lot but i never i think it's sundae ray that's a weave word is it not it's one of them weave words i know that yeah like you can feel the disgust as you say it sundae ray sundae ray this is alright but okay um but yeah yeah it was good shit uh i've always had a problem with the last of us too where i had my crosshair over an enemy's head and i magically missed somehow that stuff pissed me off to no end i could have happened to me a couple times this one says we didn't start the fire joel did it's like yes a rambe tried to tell us joe calls joel caused nyak well i was gonna say 9 11 automatically but it's coronavirus but i'm pretty sure it was both so right he's been getting around that missile is targeted to the giant's current position where's the giant mutually what is that talking about oh uh that's iron giant where's the giant man's lee all right i don't know going to wait what is that the reference i haven't seen uh i'm giant in so long now i assume i actually want to rewatch that's that sounds like a you problem my friend i didn't say it wasn't so what's with the contradictory tone you massive um i just you know having having to hear that you haven't watched the iron giant recently it's just i feel disappointed in you that's all i know we're all supposed to watch it once per day i know i haven't held up that but i will get around to it look it's one of those anime movies that has to be like rewatched every now and then like emperor's new groove shit's kino i just these 15 hour streams with less funny dudes just makes this feel like watching the new star wars sequel trilogy damn 15 hour streams with less funny dudes i'm good is the is the contention there that they used to be shorter with funnier dudes i guess yeah i don't know i mean i just think it's you're at the eighth hour of a stream i'm fucking worn out yeah uh also i know that rags and i replaced the other hosts halfway through efab's length and yeah we weren't here from the beginning we we all we we all we hear about is you know the old crew they were um so great far far more entertaining i know big shoes to felt we're getting there all right one day um but yes the iron giant is awesome playing the mass fact games for the first time and they're really bad with expiring side missions by story progression without warning they're really bad at what really bad with expiring side missions by story progression without warning um let's see because i haven't played them so i wouldn't know i guess yeah they're they're definitely designed to be done each like no varia and um all like the all the places you're supposed to do each one and all the missions contained within kind of in one thing you're not supposed to go back to them um i guess the first mass effect was well even in the second that's the thing your side little side things to do during each mission um i guess you could say that yeah sure to some degree yeah i could see what you mean something val did in their games was they used lights to show where to go yeah that was relatively common with them there's a lot of little tricks a lot of people use remember the mirrors edge one where it was like it was like a yellow strip or a red strip was always applied to sort of where you needed to go everything that you needed to interact with and move forward with was red lots of different ways developers try and show where the fuck you need to go it's wonderful in its own way my favorite kinds of barriers in games is the staircase that has a bunch of crap stuffed in the top or the bottom of it yeah that happens a lot in this game and a lot in the last of us actually one and two with staircases will just be broken or they'll have a whole bunch of stuff stacked in it and it's like i could pull this stuff away and go upstairs right and it's like no it's not like two buildings basically make it so like you explain why they don't go up every single flight of stairs so it's like yeah i i could buy barricades to a degree but like it does get a little repetitive now the ai isn't retarded the difficulty is more i should have tried the hardest one oh yeah i did read that one out before like i said i don't think it's any excuse that you say that all your difficulty settings have retarded difficulty except for the highest one you should be like what i wouldn't even be you couldn't be a smart ai while being an easy ai to deal with like it's not that retarded is is what they make them when they want them to be um you know defeated easily like losing me in a few seconds when i'm behind something they clearly saw me walk behind that's just a mechanical function of the the ai that they don't have the tools to make understand you better i guess someone said in mass effect one side missions send you to empty planets where there's nothing else no that's wrong uh i liked the side missions in mass effect one i know a lot of people didn't but you certainly got rewarded for doing them especially the outposts with um like pirates and stuff they could have some really good gear that you could get for your characters and of course there was you know xp that you get from doing all that stuff um but yeah you got you get some really good stuff from doing the side missions and stuff i didn't like the i didn't like the planet scanning in mass effect two i was like oh this is boring this is just like a little mini game that isn't really gameplay it's not interesting ai was a not a fan of mass effect two scanning i thought they dumbed down a mechanic from mass effect one because mass effect one i mean it was you driving a the space truck around on a planet on these big environments going from probably going from marker to marker and i feel like it would have been better for them to improve upon that instead of just delete it and remove it and just make it a follow the leaping beep uh mini game in mass effect two and i get why and i do get why people say mass effect one was tedious who'd agree i would agree um it is my favorite of the three that um i think it's got a lot of really nifty world building and character to it they did a lot to try and explain the scale of things um i think it had a great kind of aesthetic to it i've got a lot of fond memories of playing that game and i've played it many times i've probably played and beat that game at least at least three or four times like i really like that played it a shit i really like it which uh which one did you say mass effect one that's your favorite one yes yeah because i think i'm so out of the loop on mass effect but is two the crowd favorite i think most people would say two is the best i would say that two is probably my least favorite but this is like we're kind of comparing Lord of the Rings films in a way so i think the gameplay in three is really good the ending is what really ruined it for a lot of people um me too it really spoils it but i think gameplay wise three is i guess the most modern and solid but i really like the rpg-ness of the first game um it wasn't nearly as hand-holdy it was sprawling dare i say felt more like an adventure in that sense um um and it's but they're all good they're all really good i think it's just sort of what do you value the most and what did you like the most about each one like i'd happily play all of them over again if someone like even though i don't i don't personally like two the most i'd still gladly play it it's a great game for reference i'm assuming you're not even considering andromeda oh yeah that's right andromeda exists yeah we're not i'm not counting andromeda i played it like an hour and i was done i was like this is just fuck it so so three is pissporth we're out no not at all there's some great character stuff in three in the gameplay itself in terms of like combat and stuff you could do is really fun like playing an adept in the um in the third game is super fucking fun i think it works really well the problem is that mass effect three had some really shitty pacing especially early on um they made some really odd decisions in terms of it takes you so long to like get to the normal game aspect part of it um but the idea that three is bad is just just i just i definitely don't think that you could justify saying that three is a bad game there's a fucking arukai with a big magical staff d5 greed sludge at me and it killed me i want that to be in the movies it's called aruk poison uh in sniper elite there was also a mechanic where a ghost-like image of you appears where the enemy thinks you are huh in what now in sniper elite so where the ai currently believes that you are an image of that would project on i guess wherever they think you are but you to see and i don't know how that would work out in terms of making things a little too easy for you or not but interesting well i mean that was in like i was saying earlier in the stream we were talking about the game is uh splinter saw conviction that was a thing where whenever you with the enemies saw you your last known location was like a little ghost outline and that's where you would the enemies would treat that as that's where you were and so you could run away from it and you could always see that's the point where they i am and until they went up and actually investigated it that would remain the last known position well i'll be i should do company might that was a major mistake not to have done already you can just walk for a while and they'll lose you mechanically as an idea it's okay but kind of simplistic it's supposed to make you keep moving but it's mostly annoying i think it's unless they talk about another game in the last was two they make it way too fucking easy to lose the enemies yeah i know i remember watching you and i'm like oh did they just give up they just lose you i don't mean okay i just encourage this trolley play like why would i be careful when i can enjoy being an idiot and then being fine so those armor rukai are just pretty weak huh no armor i guess oh god he's detonating don't do it oh no hard hard wow four thousand damage not bad it's a shame that the bar for stealth in games has been lowered to just crouching and basically becoming invisible certainly behind certain objects in the last of us two you can tell that they should be able to see you and they just don't and you're like oh well they're a bit weird you can leave the dogs away by walking into an empty uh while it follows you and then running back around through elsewhere oh that thing swings the axe behind him then hits it's like that looks so silly yeah rax is building momentum what do you mean now clearly yeah he does michael jordan's it makes sense and anyone says it doesn't is evil it's an old dwarf technique they call it dwarven flume you can miss again hard hard really you're gonna die buddy it's gonna happen oh no don't go just better though hopefully i applied a resurrection to him i did i feel like the dog should have just had a rough estimate of where you are not know exactly where you are um well treat it as a i think they should just treat it as a they slowly but surely walk towards you so it it's just it puts a little bit of pressure on you to keep moving um place it yeah it's just it says you can't just camp in this one spot here eventually a dog will get you but you have plenty of time to move but you have to eventually move unfortunately they do a dog has your scent you're fucked now and it's like it starts running toward you and you're like uh and then it does the the cutscene thing we have to tap the button not all the time but i just i don't think we should be celebrating the fact that they did dogs dogs are often the same way in all games it's rare that they do them any justice they just run up to you and go bark bark also they have no idea how to deal with you and you have a hostage do you ever get to test that uh southpaw uh to sweat having a hostage while there's a dog that wants to kill you oh the dogs just awkwardly look at you they're like um hmm okay but i also really have the uh the ingenuity to throw a bomb at enemies while i was invisible when prone which was fucking hilarious to see you're referring to me yeah well you were like doing the invisible while prone and you threw a bomb at enemies and they just didn't even react to it oh man that annoyed me so fucking much what the hell okay guess that's just how that works and that was more than once the stun bombs were not working uh i love the fact that you like your place like a like a trap mime bomb and then you somehow like hurt yourself it's like yeah only waller would fucking hurt himself while doing invisible while prone they uh they activate really like when they're really close by the enemies really well not sorry close by not like i put one three meters away places and then it blows up straight away and i was like oh shit that's that's in range i guess okay yeah they were just shorter range than i thought or longer range i guess when i play through that game again i will actually go through that section without doing the invisible wooden prone because i've heard that that is a pretty fun section to go through but man when i was going through it my first time i was done by that point i was just fed up i'm like i want to get through this as quickly as possible uh the dogs can smell the gay on ellie oh my god that's offensive i think uh so who's got auto resurrect on right now just gimley and me i'm gonna spend all my idril turns just casting it i guess bring he say the line you know he wouldn't if you were here right now when you ask him to let's just he gets offended poor man he is no circus clown how dare you assume so i love how he reacts to my rating of last of us two is like that's a little lower i'd love to hear you guys break down the last of us two versus days gone and compare mainstream media reviews um yeah i never played days gone what's what's the consensus on that if there is one i don't i've got no idea not familiar at all with that game and its reception i have heard good things about it so what's that where you cover trope baker's own defense regarding joel in the game is there like a video for that so yes and he says that there is a basically no difference between joel and david so when people say stuff like that i really do question what the fuck they've been doing this whole time i'm like who are you that's like the guy who plays joel what the stuff seems like a weird take being completely honest a bit of a weird take but uh yeah maybe um is it just the one for that or does he do it in a couple of different ways i think i don't know i've seen the one sound bite um so i don't i don't cast so you know he could have said any number of things as well there's apparently been some interview that he did with drachman on his podcast where there's been a lot of stuff that they've said that have pissed people off which does not surprise me it would be so awkward if you made like an artwork and you'd been isolated from how the fans feel about it for a while and then you come out with all of your takes on what it is and like thousands of people like what the fuck are you talking about and you're like oh no i thought oh dear i thought what i said made sense fuck moeller i noticed you hummed the smash bros theme while playing the loss of us two played ultimate yet that's the one on switch if it is the one on switch then yes i always get mixed up with exactly which ones are named what but um yeah it's no surprise that uh mealy is embedded into my fucking brain because of the game cube i'm pretty sure that's the most played game on game cube i had outside of uh no that's probably it i don't think any game i played longer than now and i can't see what would compete maybe maricott double dash because of friends and stuff but uh yeah it came into my head because i was just you know how when you play the loss of us two you often think about good games do you know that experience anybody yeah oh i i think i know what you're talking about so you're just like do do do do do do do instead of you know just watching someone else in the ai get confused or it's funny because the ai and mealy was funny as hell when it was um it killed itself and stuff that was a game that um had crazy levels of effort put into it into the days it was uh prior to release people not sleeping at all to get that shit done if done in kruger and cognitive dissonance had a kid with a jerry curl it'd probably be cosmo how can concepts such as those have children that seems ridiculous yep if so then buy it when do i get to play as arathon this cosmonaut the plot sniper and batwoman who were his targets like um loss was two and stuff i guess smart people he saw a potentially good scene happening and he had to stop it uh dinka voice scottish pokemon memes please rinka they want you to voice scottish pokemon memes i guess do it do it from most of the reviews i've seen of the last of us two it's really brought up how sara's death and connection to the story has now been rendered meaningless so i think we read that on a super chat ketchup i'm not entirely sure of the argument there why is sara's death meaningless i guess they're trying to like okay if i were to make this argument what i would probably be trying to use it for is the fact that they destroyed jul and ellie's relationship that sara's death kind of acts as like the beginning of jul's arc that allows her to like sort of break him down and make him warm up to her that's the best i can come up with hmm that's that person's position because yeah i mean all of the last of us one still happened you know even yeah last was too as much as you could be like yeah but destroyed their relationship as a result like uh they still got to have it at some point but um yeah maybe there's more to that than i realize argument wise i'm not sure in the let's play you said it would be better for the ai to carry their buds away rather than shooting uh far cry 2 did this in 2008 i actually was made aware of that by someone else i looked into a video of it happening and they can get healed and stuff and this is what i mean by like a tear above you actually like have meaningful things happen in the game in relation to this instead of and i've said it before but i'll say it again paying lip service to the idea of mechanical depth or even narrative depth i don't just would you call even call it mechanical they call out each other's names or would you um it doesn't sound like it's a mechanic because there's nothing you could do with it like it's nothing that you can interact with in any way it's not it doesn't affect the player in any way that has to do with a an aspect of gameplay you don't act any differently because of it and you don't do anything differently because of it um it's almost like just a sound effect in the sense that like the sound of um i don't know um or i guess that example would be ambient background noise isn't a mechanic yeah footsteps would be you know that affects the way you play informs you about things that relate to how you strategize and you know actually do stuff but hearing amber no it doesn't do anything it's not a mechanic in fairness though it did make you feel for amber right oh um i can't i can't say that it did i started laughing when i was here and it later if the time went on i started being like uh i think the double chris was definitely my breaking point i was like this is fucking chris chris one oh not chris two uh chris um hello massives i finally played the ending of batman arkham night yesterday if any of you have played it can we talk about how uh fucking awful the nightfall ending is i remember it being pretty bad yeah i never played it well mean either wait nightfall ye this is nightfall ending i guess it's got multiple endings or the ending of a dlc called nightfall i don't know i read a book uh called nightfall um talk about that it's uh written by as a gasmoth there you go really good i really liked it about a race of people who lived on a planet where there was always light the suns were in a way the there's always it was always daylight and they that's how they adapted it's how their whole species was built it was never there was never a night um however every once every x thousands of years there'd be a day where the suns would line up in a way where there would be no sunlight um and then everyone goes fucking crazy and society collapses because people aren't they can't handle the darkness and everyone kind of goes nuts um so it was really good really really nifty characters in there and how they deal with it what happens afterwards i like it a lot would highly recommend it was written by isaac asimov and robert silverberg so is it proof that that one idiom is correct that hope is like the sun no also read hammer of god by arthur c clark sherry why is why can't it just be a cool hammer why does a god have to have made it hmm implying that human hammers are no good i hate this elitism all forms of tizm really oh look at this now we're in in in helms deep well it's i don't even know what's happening anymore i think we're winning um when i learned wilford brimley eternal past said wilford it makes sense rather upsetting don't you think that's uh as people have been saying ascended the ultimate subtitle rag ruined grandma and wilford brimley what oh my goodness i am real wilford brimley don't pin that on me that was joel yeah i was gonna say that's kind of fucked up rags ruins grandmas not grandpas and this propaganda relating to otherwise is enough enough mola what do you think about the idea that most fiction is empathy practice on some level well i would argue that um a lot of the bigger lessons in your life can easily come from consuming media because you get connected to it in a way that feels completely natural instead of barked at in terms of what you should feel and it can make you go like ooh shit i didn't think about that thing that way instead of having someone tell you that thing that way story sneak up on you like that and so a lot of people can consider them super important for teaching lessons and learning about things like empathy why it's important to consider your fellow man all that shit stories are kind of awesome that way that's why we should probably try and get them to be pretty good instead of pretty shit what do you guys reckon yeah i would say in terms of the end of the aspect i don't know if you could force like in terms of practice it i guess it teaches you why you empathize with people and what can disqualify empathy from people um it offers you a little insight into yourself and how you think um and you learned about and you could you know apply that to the real world and it's like i know what makes me empathize with people in video games and maybe there's you know some carryover into real life you're probably used to some degree i mean like you know the simplest example for you just have a guy who's like i hate everybody who isn't the color that i am then they watch a show about aliens and the aliens are hated on all the time and there's a big reveal the aliens are just like us and they shouldn't be mean and we can be we can work together and lots of characters get that that guy watching it could be like hmm you know other colors aren't so bad after all that's probably the most simplest fucking way to explain like how stories can affect people and uh yeah it goes way further than that with all these different concepts this is why by the way that themes are projected as being incredibly important because a lot of the sas would be like this is life lesson shit and i'm like oh i'm in the same boat but your boat has loads of water in it and i'm trying to like get the water out because it's just fucking shitty stories and shitty messages they're all confusing i don't understand how anyone can play the last two and learn what they what what do they learn about violence like what the fuck tell me like a straight message what they learn about forgiveness what do they learn about revenge it's all very up in the air uh but then i suppose i mean it's into a conversation about how uh blatant you should be with the lessons in your stories over uh no messaging i mean as we've said multiple times it's like if they just simply if abby had not spared ellie ellie and tomby's lives at the beginning of the game then there wouldn't even be a cycle of revenge if she had just killed dina and ellie when she had the chance there wouldn't be a cycle ellie just killed abby when she had the chance there wouldn't be a cycle anymore it's like don't half-assed it yes that's the takeaway that i got from it no witnesses that's what you should take away from what i was supposed to and abby was only saved because ellie went looking for revenge exactly this is what i mean it's fucking annoying just bad but it's because of revenge that abby was ever rescued so on a chance that zebras must live and yeah so i don't mean to get away from the question but empathy practice on some level it's like if you care about fictional characters and their plight and you understand that each of these different people can have different lives it may help you in real life be like wait a minute this is a person oh yeah real people have those things it's like whoa whoa um in real life of um stuff that we've experienced in fiction you know it's the spooky spooky mirror you know gives gives you a look yourself you're like oh my god um but yes uh we're we're crawling towards uh well nine hours and a half and i i am losing my ability to properly read explain and and better respond to things so i think we're probably going to re-wrap me up around now um yeah i'm uh i'm tuckered out it's past one in the morning here i'm gonna die been wonderful i'm sorry for the the late start uh but you know how it is when you got one efap episode left before the dreaded the terrifying one hunderedo if you're trying to submit efap one hundred stuff you're really gonna want to jump on that gas pedal you're running out of time because uh rags and i got to record some efap 100 stuff offline because of copydisms ahead of you know efap 100 so get on sending and tagging me where you can i'm sorry if i miss stuff i will do my best to catch what i can catch um in terms of new things that are happening wednesday will be batwoman and rags are right we can do a super chat catch up on saturday maybe uh for the rest of the stream saturday maybe yeah sometime i might be on saturday but i guess we'll see and if not we can do it another day it shall happen as for efap 99 i would tell you what to expect but as i usually don't i won't this time but don't don't get too crazy excited i think because it's just it's probably gonna be an episode of like holy shit where it died to died 100s on the doorstep how terrifying uh and of course august 22nd 2 p.m bst i'll probably put a tweet about that soon since people are gonna want to like know ahead of time maybe who knows what will happen what a wonderful streamed isms uh thank you all so much for coming i guess we'll take a moment here to uh absolutely yeah thanks everyone mr mr evan munro and mr southpaw to uh talk a bit about their channels before anything is to be headed off who would like to go first uh i can go first i guess i've got a channel that uh has topical videos that are on movies and i i usually like counter video assay us who make a lot of fallacious statements just like uh cosmo variety hour did i uh i made that video that i've mentioned on the last efap i was on about uh cinema wins that was i think i made that three weeks ago or so so that's what that's what's on my channel in terms of new stuff but uh other videos are there i i don't know what i'll make next but hopefully it'll be something relatively soon so just to clarify you don't let people have opinions is what you do pretty much and i just it's like it's it's gotta be me i'm like you know this correct opinion only zone so and uh mr southpaw would you like to talk a bit about your channel i'm assuming you want me to link your uh live stream one right yes so um my main one which is currently called dreaded southpaw although it's generally called blessed southpaw is where i'll upload my like fully edited videos and whatnot which i'm still working on improving uh i've got a last of us two video that i am hoping to have uploaded onto there by halloween and i'll be uh certain to post that everywhere that i can but the bulk of my content is being uploaded to something called southpaw's live streams and playthroughs um which is going to be the home of my podcast we've been uh actually we did two recent episodes um and we're kind of irregular a lot more irregular than efap is because of everyone's schedules but it's very much a sister podcast to efap and i'll also be playing through uh i'll be doing like gaming streams um and yeah that's basically what i what i do um i'm not impressed with my current batch of content that's available on my main channel but i'm working on improving my my skills as a as a critic so well that's already going to be a plus compared to the majority of people we cover on efap so good job i feel like most of them probably feel like they're doing just fine but it turns out none of us are nope um but yeah thank you both for for staying for the nine and a half hours and of course thanks to most can't and drink it for offering their insights as well uh thank you all for for watching and for your very kind donations like i said uh rags and i shall get to them the remaining ones probably this weekend because this took those there's the you know it's a kind of flip num um and there will be there will be a uh batwoman wednesday we got three remaining they're all bangers i'm looking forward to it gonna be fun to them um outside of that is there anything else um just hard to believe that we open this up thinking that we were gonna cover two 20 minute videos yeah but there's a that one was a densely packed with stupidity this is the thing this is so much to talk about in terms of bad for the last two is a really long one uh special kind of media it goes it's in the trophy case along with so many others that we've discovered on a little journey it's been fun oh yeah this one i'll get talked about for a long time this will uh this will not disappear i have a feeling that this is going to be up there with like the last jedi in regards to uh like media that will be covered by efap you know i feel like it's going to be one of those things where every every so often a really bad take comes up about it and it just has to be covered i mean it's got it's got two podcasts exclusively on it already and those as soon as we manage to consume it so who knows what shall happen in the future um but yeah thank you all for hanging out uh i'm the next video i'm working on now is a last of us two one i've already got loads of shit in my timeline that i'm loving in terms of edits and plenty of points to make no idea when that'll be out it won't be out before efap 100 that's not fucking happening there's no way it's gonna be probably pretty long but the editing process should be a hell of a lot easier because i won't have to cut constantly which would be nice well uh i appreciate being invited on on for here tonight and uh i'm looking forward to whenever it is i'll be able to uh come on again of course yeah thank you both for um for coming it's been it's been good shit lost was too absolutely how does ass kicked for like almost 20 hours in a row now good efap style who knows what we'll do in the future so that's about it thank you very much everybody and good yeah thanks for stopping by thanks for watching and sticking around that was a that's some tough parts yours your troopers for getting through all that good night all good night goodbye see you