 It's four o'clock, I'll call the licensing hearing and public safety committee meeting to order. For those that are present, would you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? This is to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay, everyone is present, it seems like. So we have the quorum. Is there a motion to approve the minutes from November 25th? Motion to approve the minutes. Second. There's been a motion. Ryan, could you speak up a little bit? I'm having some trouble hearing. Yep, there's been a motion by Dean, a second by Barb. Any further discussion on the minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye, the minutes are approved. Okay, item number 3.1, general ordinance number 26-2021 in ordinance amending section 118-276 and 118-279 of the municipal code relating to unlicensed vehicles. Who wants to take this one? Chuck or Thomas? Okay. This ordinance dates back to a situation we were dealing with where a property owner decided that disassembling cars in his driveway was an appropriate thing to do, which is problematic on several levels. But one of the things that this particular property owner was doing is they were staging all of the cars that were going to be disassembled in the neighborhood without license plates on them. And the way the abandoned vehicle ordinance is currently written, it really is focused on vehicles that we have no expectation are going to move. The inoperable, the disassembled, sort of the proverbial vehicle on the front lawn up on blocks. And at the same time, we define an unlicensed vehicle as one that's abandoned. But as I think we all know, unlicensed vehicles can and do sometimes drive around. And whether that's unlicensed because you didn't update your plates, you didn't have the correct tag on or just simply are driving around without a license plate. So this particular ordinance, we've worked with the police department to try to craft something that they think would be useful and functional on their end. And what we're recommending is a tweak to the abandoned vehicle ordinance that does a couple of things. First, it defines unlicensed vehicles. And it defines an unlicensed vehicle as one, let me make sure I get my definition right, as one that either doesn't have, doesn't have a valid registration plate or its registration plate is expired by more than 31 days. So we're not dealing with someone who forgot by a day to get their plates renewed. That's not what we're dealing with. And we also provide that once you are deemed an abandoned vehicle because you are an unlicensed vehicle, essentially that designation sticks with you until the issue is remedied, that's your notice, that's your opportunity to protest. And then if the vehicle is found on any public street, so if it's parked in the right of way, it would be eligible to be towed without an additional notice going out, without an additional 72 hours for someone to remedy it. So the idea is sort of the game of whack-a-mole sometimes gets played with these types of vehicles, hopefully can get sort of short circuited where everyone's still getting notice. Due process is obviously very, very important and was a key part of how we structured this revision. But in the case of a vehicle that may well move, you're getting that notice once. You're still getting notice every time your vehicle is towed, but making it very, very clear upfront that if your vehicle is towed because it's unlicensed, you keep that abandoned vehicle designation until you get your vehicle licensed, which is ultimately the goal. Awesome. Any questions from anybody? Mary Lynn? So I have a couple of issues. As a former traffic prosecutor, I know that at least in the jurisdictions that I represented, the police would typically not issue a citation for an expired license plate until it was at least three or four months, sometimes six months out of date. And the reason for that is people move, mail is not forwarded. I had a number of cases where parties were divorced and there was a lack of communications. Sometimes people get a notice and they simply forget. So I think 31 days. And then of course there's the delays from DMV. Typically, if you submit at the very last minute, typically you'll get your plates or your renewal rather relatively quickly, but not necessarily. So Thomas walked me through, we were in the process of moving and the notice that I got from the DMV to renew my license got lost. And it's now been more than 31 days. And I have the car parked either on the street or in my driveway. What happens under the abandoned vehicle? Just walk me through how you envision the process. Yeah, so there's sort of the absolute letter of the law and I think there's the intent behind it. And the intent behind this is to provide a very specific tool for sort of the whack-a-mole type situation where you've got this recurring situation. The idea isn't to try to start towing people because the mail gets lost and you've got a vehicle that's 31 days as just sort of a matter of course. I know based on my conversations with the police department and this isn't a step written into the ordinance, but one of the things that they've talked about is, it's crucial for any number of reasons to really try to make contact with the person before we get to this point to speak with, try to make contact with the property owner, with the vehicle owner and to identify what's going on here to issue the abandoned vehicle citation. I see that the chief has turned on his camera. I'm not sure if he's gonna add something. In general, this isn't the first move. It's not, congratulations, you're at 31 days. Here's an abandoned vehicle ticket. We're gonna tow your car. The idea was to provide a definition and to provide a definition that was something other than you are one day late. You know, I think the way it's written now, I think it would provide that if you're one day late, that's an unlicensed vehicle. Yeah, I think, I mean, that is the way it goes. It's currently written and I don't think, I don't think that's how it's, I don't think that's the desired result. I see what you're trying to do and it makes complete sense. How many of these stop laws do we have that are moving vehicles around? And I get, I have gotten at least two in my eight years, I've gotten two calls from constituents who are really upset, understandably with these junk cars hanging out in driveways and things like that. So I'm not hostile to what you're trying to do. I'm just, we can always talk about, it's not the intent, but what's written is written. And I'm just wondering, can we do cheap 45 days? Cheap 45 days, I don't know, maybe it'll be fine. Yeah, well, let's look at the data and show how many situations have happened where a citizen didn't renew their place and their car was towed because of that. So essentially the situation that you're proposing here, if you have complaints or you can demonstrate that we've done that, that would be one case. But that hasn't happened and we don't tow cars that way. What we're talking about is a situation where I would say there's probably five that I can think of off the top of my head, maybe as many as 10 in the city, but that's it. Or it's continuous playing games with us and them using the law as it's written really to take advantage of it. And it's causing great distress in neighborhoods and causing many calls to us. And so we go through all of the steps that are in the ordinance, sending them their letters and arranging for tows. And right before the tow comes, then they move the car across the street. And now we start all over again. And the neighbors are saying, why are you allowing this to happen? Why do you keep doing this? This is ridiculous. No, I get it. I mean, we understand. So from that perspective, I think if this is a workaround, then we should do it. I'm just saying that it's in the years that I did this, one of the most frequent tickets that are forfeitures that are issued, at least in the jurisdictions I worked in, those expired registrations. And I mean, it happens, what happens if I had 10 through trial, four would be unregistered, you know, failure to register a vehicle. And so... And I understand totally what you're saying, but the point that I'm trying to make is what we're talking about here is towing a ban in vehicles. And so cars that are just not registered because somebody hasn't responded quickly, the problem would get fixed way before we got to the point where we're telling. Okay, sounds good. Dean, you had a thought? I just want to throw out a few comments. I guess I'm one of the persons that pushed for this ordinance because it did happen in the Indiana corridor. It also happened in the King Park area. They had some issues down there. What we mean, we had the gentleman that was the onus for this would actually, there were cars with flat tires literally sitting on the street. He would move them and then the process would have to start all over again. And as long as the police couldn't sit on this car, these cars and watch them all day, so the guy would just wait until the opportune time, move the car, now the clock has to start all over again. And it is frustrating when you, especially when these cars are the way they are. There's no license plates on them or the license plates don't even belong on the car. They're generally were not registered to people even in Sheboygan. They were, what happens is these gentlemen would buy cars. He never would transfer the title or anything like that. He would keep them under their previous title holder's name and they would just be sitting all over and they would actually be parked two or three blocks away from his residence just to kind of avoid all the, try to avoid all this. And he kept moving them around. So that's where this comes from, I guess. So I'm hoping that you guys will support this. Yeah, and if I could just speak to you and I do appreciate Dean's kind of work on this too. And a lot of the members of the Kings Park Neighborhood Association that I've talked to, we've had some issues in our neighborhood. You know, with folks kind of running their own little shop shops in their neighborhood too. So I'm supportive of this for sure. And I hope that this does give us the teeth to kind of really address some of the problems that we're facing in our neighborhood associations. So I guess, are there any more questions? This may just be me, but I'm still having trouble hearing you. Sorry, I'm leaning too far away from the mic today. I'm gonna look closer here. Mary Lynn for you. Are there any other thoughts or? Any other? Thank you, Ryan. There's no worries. I appreciate it. And any other? Mother Feldinger, sixth grade. Hi, Jose. Any other thoughts or comments or motions? I make motion to approve. There's been a motion by Dane, second by Mary Lynn. Any other thoughts or discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That will be forwarded on to the council. Awesome, 3.2 RO number 98 to 2021, submitting various license applications for the period in the June 30th, 2022, the average operating license application number 3394, 3406, and the change of permits application 3381 for Mayer. City Attorney? Yes, recommending, first of all, that you grant the application of Stephanie Cain. We reviewed that one and decided that should be granted. We'll go separately on the other ones. I think that's probably the best way to handle it. So first a motion to approve Stephanie Cain. Motion to approve Stephanie Cain's license application? Second. There's been a motion in second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Next one. Okay, and then on Amber, I assume she is not in the crowd? She is not in the crowd. Nope. Okay, so we are recommending denial of this license. We did send her a letter indicating that if she wished to have a hearing, she could do so. She did not respond to us and it appears she has not appeared today as well. So on that basis, you can simply deny based on her record of violations relevant to the licensed activity at this point. So that would be our recommendation. I'll move. Second. There's been a motion in second to deny Amber's license. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please stay die. Aye. Mine aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Then on the Meyer store, Julie did follow up with them, told them what was needed and they got about half of what was needed to her. So we're still recommending holding. We're working with them to try to get it done. Okay. But hopefully next time. So that's a motion to hold. Motion to hold. Motion to hold. Second. Motion in second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, folding, please stay die. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That one's held. Okay, moving along 3.3 RO number 106, 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st, 2021, June 30th, 2022 beverage operating license number 3413, 30 or 2848, 1509, 3326. Okay, so I'm going to divide this in two just because that seems to be the best way to do it. We are recommending granting the application of Christopher Bernier and Jody Gordon for a taxi cab driver's license. It's the motion to approve those ones. Second. Second. Motion by Barb, second by Dean. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please stay die. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. And then we are also recommending granting the applications of Libroy or Tega for a beverage operator license and William Rohr for a taxi cab driver's license. But both of those should come with warnings or Tega is because of a history of violations related to the license activity, which were of concern, but staff felt were sufficiently attenuated in time to warrant granting. And Rohr because of a recent crash in his taxi cab, it was also never reported to the clerk's office by the cab company as required. So those would be grants with warnings. Motion to grant with warnings. Motion to grant with the warnings. Is there a second? Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of granting with the warnings, please stay die. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. 3.4, RO number 13, 20, 21, taxi cab license renewal application 30, 23, excuse me. Yep, this one is for yellow cab. We're recommending granting this one with a warning. This was the company that Mr. Rohr worked for and it was their duty to report any accident that causes any amount of damage, even if it's simply aesthetic that's in our code, they didn't do it and we actually were gonna hold it but we did get in touch with them and they did finally report it. And so we are recommending granting with a warning. Is there a motion to grant with a warning? Motion to grant with a warning. Is there a second? Second. Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion? All those in favor of granting with a warning, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. All right, 3.5, RO number 114, 20, 21, taxi cab business license application number 3215. This is two guys taxi service. We're recommending granting this license. Is there a motion to grant? Motion to grant. Is there a second? Second. Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of granting these license, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. That is approved. All right, 3.6, RO number 112, 20, 21, submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st, 2021 and June 30th, 2022. So these two. The things in the right order on this agenda, they go from hardest to easiest as we go. This one is very simple. We're recommending granting all the licenses. All right. Is there a motion to grant? Motion to grant. Okay, Barb's got that one. Is there a second? Second. Second by Betty. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of granting the remaining licenses, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. That's approved. Next meeting, December 30th. Seeing that we've exhausted the agenda, is there such a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Okay, second by Barb. All those in favor of adjourning, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. We are adjourned at 421. Thank you everybody.