 Sometimes I climb the tech meme at mountain Definitely definitely feels like a mountain. I was so excited I'm so excited this morning to find that My my old my old friend and guest on this show Steve Kovac had the number one non Tim Cook author tech memes Right very cool. Did I know that you and Steve knew each other? Uh, yeah, I'd you know, I guess I had forgotten if I ever knew I I actually gave him his first paying journalism job He was Distant editor when I was the news editor at at Syracuse Yeah Starting to sound familiar now But no, he's he's done He's done such great and now he's like just killing it. It's bad CNBC. Where was he before business insider, right? Yeah, business insider and then he was business They went when they spun out tech and later and then that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh My goodness Right, man, you know what news is breaking late today. I'll have a beer Oh Okay, I'm trying to stun on me right now and my drive Livestream in and just you know being a regular old Maybe I'll run for president Really 2019 ahead of 2018 real quick no one's gonna do something really silly on the live stream That's all you need to do these days to run for office. Just have a beer on a live stream. Oh my actually. Oh my god I don't even know if I want to speak these evil words into existence, but I know what's gonna happen What what if you cracked it? Oh Save it save it for after the show. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna text you. Okay. All right. That's not cool Text Sarah to why don't you just like it to us? Oh You're right. All right inside so we can all enjoy whatever you're not just like I don't know what it is Yeah Here it comes here it comes. Oh Yeah, no, absolutely. You're right and a very good reason not to mention it on the live stream Yeah, folks, I don't I don't want to I don't want to like that's it's just pure evil and I don't want any I don't want any credit except for these three people. Yeah. Yeah Sorry folks, I know you're gonna hate us and my full intention was to talk Justin Andrew Revealing it to you, but there's yeah. No, it's very good reason to not yep. Nope. I totally get it now You know, what's cool puppies? Oh my gosh, check out my Instagram if you haven't already when I went to the the Sub-brilliant LLC mailbox to get the get the mail there was a truck full of dogs And they're all looking out the window smiling at everyone who's passing by like the entire parking lot was cheered up As people walked in and out of their various nail The purpose of the truck just I don't know. I it was just a truck full of happy dogs though. Pretty great They they seemed related to each other Yeah, yeah, like a dog walker or I don't know maybe Unless the dog walker was walking a bunch of the same breed Which is possible Speaking of when we're at CES You know, it's very complicated to leave town these days. It's like someone's got to watch the cats Well, someone's got to watch Otis and that has to be a different person because he can't just be like sitting at home the whole time So we've gotten it all figured out through over.com. Oh good job No, not at all. It's not the only service. That's how we begin. Yes, we shall Justin, would you do me the favor of opening the show, please? Indeed, I would All right, here we go in five four three two one a Handsome fellow named Justin Young has been supporting independent tech news directly for five years be like Justin become a DTNS member at Patreon.com slash DTNS This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, January 3rd 2019 in Los Angeles on Tom Merritt And from Studio Feline, I'm Sarah Lane and from Oakland, California I'm Justin Robert Young and I'm the show's producer Roger chain. Oh my dear folks We are definitely going to talk about Tim Cook's letter to his investors that came out yesterday afternoon There's a lot to say a lot to parse a lot to theorize about If you hadn't heard it essentially says how we'll go make less money than it did then it thought it was going to There's lots of ramifications for that, but let's start with a few tech things. You should know Microsoft is adding to new Microsoft 365 subscription bundles starting February 1st for business customers the Microsoft 365 identity and threat protection package includes both Microsoft threat protection plus Microsoft cloud app security and Azure Active Directory For $12 per user per month the second one is the Microsoft 365 information protection and compliance package Including Office 365 advanced compliance and Azure information protection services for $10 per user per month volume discounts will be available for both bundles as well Google confirmed that automatic spam protection in the default Android messages app is rolling out to some users the app Which is opt out by default will analyze messages that are sent to you in order to detect and proactively block spam messages Google temporarily collects and temporarily stores phone numbers in order to analyze the data, but doesn't store message content however Google support site says that if a user chooses to manually report a message as spam Then the full contents of the message will be sent Evan blast posted a photo of the beyond one variant of what is expected to be Samsung's galaxy s10 With a hole punch display for a lone selfie camera blast is usually good at this stuff So we tend to believe when he posts them The only thing left in the bezel if this is true are the speakers and the belief is that this 5.8 inch phone will have one camera on the front two on the back While a 6.7 inch beyond two variant would have two cameras on the front three on the back There's also talk of a cheaper 5.1 inch one being called beyond zero and a 5g capable 6.7 inch phone called beyond X We'll likely find out from Samsung what all this actually is around mobile world Congress Which is at the end of February also right before the show Apple was ordered to stop selling iPhone 7s and 8s in Germany While Apple appeals a patent ruling against it Qualcomm paid the 1.3 billion euro bond Required in order to enforce that order. We knew this was coming, but now it has happened. All right Before we get to that Apple investor letter. Let's talk a little about a Chromecast bug You will you're right Tom a bug in Chromecast discovered by security researcher Bishop fix in 2014 Let's an attacker reset any Chromecast it it can access to default mode thus allowing the attacker to control it Some hackers have used that bug in combination with a UPN P to Access thousands of Chromecasts and display a warning that they are insecure Turning off you PMP would prevent this remote method But it still leave Chromecast vulnerable to anyone within range of the device itself Kind of nice of a hacker of all the things you might do to just display something saying hey, this is insecure If you remember back at the end of November there was a printer hack where they were going in and printing out printouts like hey Your printer's insecure. You might want to look into that It's still probably a successful hack if you're if we're if we're defining them, okay Well, so don't allow hackers into your living room and then you're fine Yes, exactly. I mean what bugs me about this is you PMP making people aware that it's open and getting them to turn it off That was something of a public service. I'm not sure how altruistic these folks are They're also promoting PewDiePie and their messages, but whatever This is this is definitely going to raise some awareness about it And you should turn off you PMP unless you have a very specific reason to leave it on But Google is saying oh, well, that's that's all there is to it And the fact is this bug that's been around for five years now. Yeah is something that Google should Mitigate so something that Google could should squash because even if it's like you say Limited to the hacker in your living room or sitting in the car outside Well, well, that's not as much of a of a problem It could also turn into other bugs and it's serious. They should they should kill this is something that should be Addressed immediately and it to be honest with you kind of makes me wonder how much of a serious I Google has toward the Chromecast in general Like if they're not prioritizing what is you know a lower Risk surface for them a company that is generally good at being ahead of security issues. Oh, yeah No, I mean that's a thing like Google has a fairly elite security team, right? But they take very seriously because they are so server-dependent and they are you know, they move in data So they need to protect that that's the golden goose. So if in hardware, let's understand that they don't exactly That's not really what makes them the vast majority of money then beyond that What is the sub except what is the how much attention is the subsection of Chromecast getting? Yeah, it's a that's a really good point Although it's been it's been five years. It's not like they got rid of Chromecast. They've updated it since then They just haven't fixed the software flaw fix it. Oh, yeah, I know I'm a good degrees Let's talk about smart glasses Woo, it's not Google Glass in fact a company called Vuzix blade smart glasses are now available for pre-order They have a floating display Similar to Google Glass, although it's all the way on the on the right side of your eye Rather than kind of in the corner the way Google Glass used to be Amazon's voice assistant, you know, her name has compatibility Although early reviewers didn't have that they had a pre-release version of the software Google Assistant is apparently on the way as well The blades designed to work with your smartphone Although it does have Wi-Fi connectivity if you didn't want to pair it to your phone for whatever reason But it only comes in one style at least for now Blade OS is proprietary It's based on Android and the navigation uses the touchpad on the glasses right side to swipe and tap around It has a built-in 8 megapixel camera can take photos and also record video There is a red light indicator that will let the world looking at you know if your camera is on and in use The blade starts shipping at the end of the month for $1,000 Nicole Lee over it and Gadget had a real nice write up about what's good and bad about the device And she did say yeah, if Amazon's assistant was something that I could actually use that might prove Why they're Better than her initial takeaway, but what she did say and this is gonna be an issue for any pair of glasses Yeah, we're talking like Google Glass had this issue Snap lenses have this issue and she said the glasses just didn't look that good on her. They fit Okay, they looked better on certain faces more than others But she said yeah, this is just not something that I would want to wear They look like 3d glasses you get at a movie theater. Yeah They're bulky, I mean more than that. I mean, I'm just saying in terms of the shape I think it's a fairly masculine or futuristic kind of shape so if you are going for something that is fairly angular then if that's your style Then you might be more interested in it than if you like things that are a little bit more rounded and look Eyewear is something that is very fashion conscious and it was part of the reason why Google Glass was was not there in in the in the review Did was there mention on what battery life is for pictures and videos because that was another gigantic drawback on What Google Glass was well one of that I don't recall the battery life But one of the gripes was you take a bunch of video and photos But there's not a really easy way to get that onto my computer from the glasses I don't know I feel like smart glasses While cool and there there sounds like a lot of cool things about what buzik's is doing and the company's been Putting together smart glasses for some time now is just that the wearables the smart watches I mean that's such a big market now that there's so much less of this need of oh If I want to be hands-free and keep my phone in my pocket or my purse This is the thing that I'm going to be using to be able to Have an AR experience with the world smart wearables on your wrist That's that's been going pretty well for people hold on though. Vuzix has been is not new to this That's the one thing to keep in mind. They've been doing this for ten years They're an enterprise focused company and this is them saying hey for the workplace not just a specific Medical or industrial use. Yeah, maybe these these would be good for that. It's it's sort of testing the waters I I think it's easy to dismiss these as another Google Glass They're not there. They're an outgrowth of what Google Glass also still is everyone forgets it Nicole even forgot it in this article Google Glass is still inexistent and sold in the enterprise It's trying to say hey instead of a big bulky gaming set being the future of AR Maybe something that helps you with notifications. Is it and and like you said Sarah, it's a big full screen Rather than just a tiny little thing up in the upper right, which is what the first generations of Google Glass Well, sure. Yeah, the enterprises is certainly a market for something like this And and as you mentioned Vuzix has been around for a while been working out a lot of this technology for some time For the consumer markets, which is which is what the engadgets review was focused on It sounds like it's it's there's still that do I want this on my face? Does it look right? Is it too much? Is it too futuristic? Is that red light going to freak everybody out? Cares about that mass audience though They they want to give it to a more more practical Businessy use which may not care as much. I don't know. I may be here's the one thing I will say real quick about the consumer element Pictures and video pictures and video that upload automatically to the cloud the best camera You have is the camera that you can take the fastest picture with if it's already on your face I don't know why that there's not there while I do it's battery and storage, but that's to me I think the breakthrough there. Yeah, and this is this is not the only one out there north We talked about north back in November They not quite as feature-filled as Vuzix, but we're gonna keep seeing these incremental steps I don't think Vuzix is it but it's moving us towards 95 Google found a change to Android's Garrett source code management with a read me file that explains that Google's fuchsia OS will use a specially designed version of the Android runtime to be able to run Android apps now It's unclear whether the special runtime will replace Android's Linux kernel calls with calls to fuchsia's zircon kernel Or instead create a Linux virtual machine using fuchsia's virtual machine system Machina for those of you who don't care about all that though The bottom line is whenever Google does decide to roll out fuchsia devices They'll be able to run Android apps and definitely looks like Google wants fuchsia to be it's everything OS of the future And we all are gonna love it, right? Yeah, man. I'm pumped 2019 year of the fuchsia Yeah, I'm curious if we'll see an announcement about it for at at I.O At least some sort of developer announcement to say yeah, you know, we've been kind of cagey about fuchsia But here's what it is. I don't think we'll see device announcements quite yet I'd be a little surprised at that But but I think we'll hear them start to talk about it because I I think they do want to replace Android and Chrome OS with it eventually and having it run Android apps That's one of the things that makes Chrome OS usable is being able to run the Android apps and that would be a sense That this is an essential step for it Yeah, and then this would be a good time to get into it, right? Get get developers thinking about it playing with it Having you know some sort of access to what the future would look like. Yeah for sure Hey, why don't we wait for CES to announce things? Oh, no my friends. That's what LG just said to you They say that's for chumps. In fact LG announced an 88 inch 70 or z9 OLED TV with 8k upscaling It is the 8k 75 inch SM 99 run on LG's second gen alpha 9 processor Which supposedly determines the best visual output Amazon voice services also joins Google Assistant in the TVs Both of which work with LG's think AI Yeah, LG man, this is their new tradition. They've been doing this for years now And and and they even had one earlier in December like this is this is what we're gonna talk about We might they might I think thank you was the one thing they talked about on stage last year Sarah if I remember, right? Yeah, they hadn't announced everything already You it definitely was last year because we spent a whole show saying is it think or thank you To go back and look at the keynote again to see what they said I think we were all wrong, but okay 88 inch I don't have a wall big enough for that 8k upscaling No, my eyes aren't even very good anymore, but if I had the money, I'd still want one. Yeah Man, I'm just glad that CES is getting TVs. It's been too long. Yeah Finally LG Well, look, I mean Obviously we can kind of make the jokes here. I'm sure everybody here except for me That's going to see you guys can practice their stock CES jokes about you know The kind of things that are always there and the kind of announcements that always happen It's hard to kind of put it into context until you see the rest of the competition But Tom, where do you think this as an omen points to where the competition will be? Yeah, well, we're gonna see a lot of 8k talk That's gonna be the new talk is 8k and 8k upscaling seems like one of the one of the frequent Gambits that we'll see people were like, hey, yeah, there's no 8k content But we'll take that 4k content and we'll make it 8k and every right now as an expense will go Why would I need to do that? Because that's not 8k's benefit. We can't even like you said Sarah We can't even see the pixels. So it'll be interesting to watch that happen But yeah, we're gonna see a lot of a lot of 8k talk in the TV world I'm gonna see a lot of 5g everything. We're gonna see a lot of voice assistant everything So two out of three of the of the big trends that's there in this LG announcement And also, I mean was it was it was it this year or will it be this year or was it also last year the idea of the the Like hey, let all the voice assistants can party in this device. Yeah last year It was Google and everything right every but Amazon was was kind of trailing in the announcement department They got a lot of announcements, but I have a feeling it's gonna be neck and neck between those two this year Yeah, voice assistant house party Yeah, because smart voice assistant smart house party To get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes. Don't forget folks You can subscribe to our other show daily tech headlines dot com All right Apple issued a letter to investors revising its quarterly revenue down to 84 billion For this it's their Q1, but it's the fourth quarter of anybody else's year not everybody else's but the calendar year So it gets a little confusing they talk about Q1 even though we think of it as Q4 It was the holiday quarter they had to revise their holiday quarter revenue forecast down in November They had forecast 89 billion now 84 billion would be down 5% over last year It would be the first year over a year quarterly decline since 2016 The first change to a forecast that Apple has made in more than 15 years Apple's stock market value, of course tumbled to below 700 million dollars Back in October it had peaked at 1.1 trillion if you remember in the investor letter Tim Cook attributed the problem to sales problems in China including Hong Kong and Taiwan 20% of Apple's revenue comes from that region. So that is a believable reason The reason it would be not getting as much revenue from China slowing phone sales in China increased competition in China A decelerating market China's just generally not doing as economically robust as it has been a strengthening dollar and This gets touted as a main reason. I think it's a lesser reason But it is a reason the US China trade dispute which Apple claims reduced traffic to its Chinese stores a little bit of patriotism Like hey, maybe I will buy a wall way after all Earlier launch of the iPhone 10s didn't help Apple says because a lot of their sales got moved before the quarter Supply constraints were blamed more people replacing batteries instead of upgrading was noted Although that's just part of the general trend of people keeping their phones longer The other divisions not iPhone rose 19% in a memo obtained by Bloomberg that Tim Cook sent to his employees He said iPhone activations in the US and Canada set a new Christmas day record for the company We expect to set all-time revenue records in key markets including the US Canada and Mexico Western European countries including Germany And Italy and countries across the Asia Pacific region like Korea and Vietnam So he's trying to calm the employees down saying look, we're fine. We're doing great everywhere. It's just China so Okay, why is this happening the armchair evaluation is Pricing but there's a good reason for them to be raising the pricing. First of all, it's it's right there with the other Top-end phones average revenue per unit has been rising for Apple They're also just something that's not going to matter longer lasting phones Bay Street research Says the phone upgrade cycle has risen across markets from 24 months to 35 months between 2015 and 2018 And the other revenue streams have not caught up to the iPhone yet The watch ecosystem that's only a tenth of iPhone revenue cars don't have them TV service don't have it smart glasses not there R&D is more than doubled for Apple since 2014, but services revenue has not kept pace. Well, it's rising it rose 2.4 billion dollars It's not enough to make up the sales loss of 9 billion dollars Services make up less than 25 percent of iPhone sales Things like netflix pulling its in-app subscriptions aren't going to help that now Apple said customers spent a record 1.22 billion dollars in the app store between December 24th and December 31st They also set a record for new year's day app store revenue, but that's just not enough The other one to note is India is the potential new growth market as China slows down Its revenue is flat China between 2011 and 2012 grew 80 to 90 per year for apple India is flat right now in an equivalent period Pricing is is an issue in that market because you can find a lot of other cheaper good phones there now Longer lasting phones could be good for apple because it means people stay in the ios market longer if they have an iphone Which means they can make more money on services. So I present this to you. Justin and sara Apple knew that iphone sales were going to decline It's not a surprise to them And it knows it needs new products and increases services to fill the gap and it has plans for that but this unexpected china drop and a Slower than expected uptake in sales in india are what's causing this problem now Take that And say okay. Is this just a bump in the road for apple or is or is this you know tim cook ain't no steve jobs He can't do this I mean I Hesitate to go the full monty there because I think that that tends to be a very complicated Question and nobody is steve jobs it what make it's what made steve jobs steve jobs right I do think that this might be the end of the days of endless optimism for apple that that this is the end of the yellow brick road They have been over reliant on china and and foreign growth to continue to Soften the blow of this market commoditizing of the fact that there are cheaper phones that do Increasingly more and more and more of what made the iphone special That this is also to me a little bit of a hangover of the fact that there was a super cycle of upgrades for The 10 the 10 was looked at as this is we're going back to the old days We're now all of a sudden you get a new phone and it does all these new crazy things apple putting a lot of Effort into this 10-year anniversary phone and now All right, it's a little bigger. It's a little faster We're kind of back to where we were before that super cycle beyond that I I I think obviously there is you can you can quibble about where we are In terms of the the trade war talk But I think this is more about where apple is right now and I think it's also kind of troubling to say All right, so now they're going to rely even harder on The the the toll they take in in-app purchases when that seems to have been a barrier for creating some of their Making some of their in-home devices like apple tv and the iphone There are now harder barriers to entry for big companies like netflix and amazon and stuff like that where they don't want to pay that toll That to me is is a bad omen. These are cloudy skies for apple in a way that Uh, you know, I don't think we have seen in a very very very long time They should have just kept it really hard to replace the battery I'm just I'm I'm kidding, of course. Yeah, I I agree. I agree with you justin. I think This was inevitable. Uh, there was a time Oh, I don't know. Let's call it five years ago where uh, yeah, the chinese market was surging Uh, the iphone was whether or not you wanted an iphone. It was still seen as this is the fancy phone This is the expensive phone if you can afford it apple has been riding on that for so long And in the chinese market specifically and certainly other markets across the world There are just phones that are just as nice and people prefer in many cases Uh, the iphone is not necessarily this this this fancy Porsche of a car or of a phone You know, like a fancy car Uh, that it that it once was just because there's so much competition With phones that are better and like you mentioned tom Yeah, you know, if it if it's a chinese, uh made phone Then there might be some of that going on in in china as well as far as the indian market Yeah, apple's got an issue there because the phones are are just Priced high enough that that they're out of reach for for a big part of the population It's a huge market a huge huge potential market But I also think that tim cook The points that he's making all seem pretty legit It doesn't sound to me like oh apple, you know, they're really screwing up. He's no steve jobs It's like tim cook has been doing quite well for some time. I mean, let's not forget that just a few months ago It was the one trillion dollar company so This is it's troubling because the holiday quarter has historically been so good for apple and that the quarters, you know our record breaking Year over year quarter over quarter, but it is embarrassing really to have to Revise something like this. Oh, oh sweet lord. Yeah, and and and beyond that this is kind of strike two for from, you know Market watchers because they previously said that they weren't going to report iphone mac and ipad unit sales Going forward, you know that this is that there this is the second time That apple has had to make an announcement that said market wise Things are not going to be the way that they used to and yes They can compare to their competitors and you know samsung and google that they don't report that They're not apple They're not the the company that made these kind of gaudy unit numbers Uh famous on a level that hadn't been there all that being said Yes, this might be the end of the yellow brick road for for apple But let's not make the mistake that many people did about microsoft, you know 10 years ago and act like they're roadkill now I don't This is this is in any way a sign that apple is in any kind of serious harm But I do think that they are shifting into a different phase of of their Business life as bio cal in our chat room says one bad apple quarter. Don't spoil the whole stock girl no And the the non iphone hardware areas They're they're just not the a big piece of apple's overall pie right now. It is still the iphone. So yeah, yeah, I honestly I don't think the trade war has as much to do with this as india Uh, in fact, I don't even think the trade war has as much to do with it as just china Is china's economy in general slowing down before there was even a hint of a trade war Uh, and it's slowing down faster than we thought I think that the trade war part of this accelerates it a bit But it's mostly china is decelerating faster than everybody expected This is hitting samsung too and samsung isn't having a trade war So samsung and apple are in the position of nokia and blackberry and history is against them that hey, you know what? Huawei zte xiaomi The vivo those are the apples and samsung's of 10 years ago And unless you do something really innovative you're going to end up like nokia and blackberry And that's what we're seeing happen in india india is where apple should be growing to make up for a declining china Even if it does decline faster and it's flat And that's not a good sign for them Well, thanks to everybody who participates and our sub reddit Always a good sign to see all of you in there voting on stories and submitting your own You can go to daily tech news show reddit.com and join the party You can also hang out on facebook if you like facebook.com Slash groups slash daily tech news show is where to find us there. Let's check out the mailbag Let's do it. Uh, this one comes from anonymous the person requested to remain anonymous Okay, anon says just listening to episode 34 39 That was yesterday's show and the oppression I got from tim stevens is that the state of ev competition for 2019 Is still up in the air at the moment. That's exactly how i've been feeling as a brand new ev driver I was lucky enough to receive my 2019 jaguar I pace in mid december took it on its first road trip over the holidays because of the lack of real alternatives to tesla Until this year. I'm not sure if some of the issues i've met are quirks of the industry quirks of the company We're just problems that need to be looked at in the shop As a consumer one major issue i've noticed while traveling the lack of standardized charging stations while apt map out a large Number of charging stations on your route the majority of these are level half providing ac electricity Some of these are listed charging stations, but they're really just outdoor outlets The tesla and non tesla divide is also reminiscent of the apple non apple situation Where you need separate systems and adapters to track or use certain tesla stations Since this sounds like a commercial electric options are really starting to pick up this year I'd love to know if any of the audience members have inside information We're just some hot takes on the technology and the eb ecosystem in general and how to maneuver in this new space Yeah, uh, so if anybody actually knows let us know feedback at daily tech news show dot com Also emailed tim stevens because uh, we focused so much on the models yesterday We really didn't talk about the infrastructure So tim sent us some further thoughts saying frankly tesla's charging network blows everyone else's out of the water But over the next two years that'll change significantly Electrify america is blowing up in a big way next year funded largely by vw And they're putting a raft of high speed and standards based chargers in places like home depot and walmart I hope they'll catch up and perhaps even surpass the supercharger network because i'm always rooting for the non Proprietary solution for today though the big question is how far do you really need to go? A good way to think of this is how often would you need to stop for gas if your car was always topped up for you every morning? For most people the answer is a couple times a year at most So then it becomes a question of whether there are chargers along the route to where you need to go And that varies hugely based on locale here in new york There are fast chargers on nearly every major highway rest area most states though are not so lucky Thank you tim for the follow-up. Thank you very much tim. Thanks to jesson rubber young for being with us this beautiful fine thursday It almost said friday feels like friday. I don't know what day it is Happy new year to you and let folks know where they can keep up with your work Well, I'll tell you what you want to hear a little bit more about the trade war Well, you can listen to my politics podcast of politics politics politics, but I got a little night attack Plug for you guys because on january 22nd Brian and I will be releasing our new comedy album It is going to feature the music of one of the most talented people That I have ever had a chance to come across In in all my wanderings on the internet a man by the name of steven cogswell for over three years After every single episode he makes a song Using our audio from that episode and we are finally going to give him His just do by putting his best work on an album. It's going to be released on january 22nd You're going to hear me talk about it quite a bit because Uh, we really really really want this thing to hit the billboard comedy charts He has worked so hard for literally no money. This is the least that we could do So more info on that as we go forward, but january 22nd Circle it on your calendar. Got it done awesome Folks if you are not a member of dts Or if you let your membership lapse now's a good time to get back in Everybody who stays with the patreon at their particular tiers for three months starting january 2nd at the Highest levels will get merchandise with lens five-year anniversary art on it Co-executive producers and analysts get a sticker advisors get a poster and master level folks get a mug So if you've been thinking about raising your pledge now would be a good time to do that Or if you join you might want to join in at one of these Levels that gets you the cool lend peralta stuff again If you are already a member if you don't change your tier Three months from january 2nd And if you're a new member three months from the day you join as long as you stay at that tier without changing it And uh, don't forget you can always get dts stuff at daily tech news show dot com slash store You can also always give us feedback our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com Keep it coming. We love reading them and sometimes looking at those pictures that you sent We're live money through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc And you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back tomorrow talk to you then Show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Nicely done good show Good show everyone apple and alexis tom merit. Thank you very much Uh, you always shine but today you shined bright. Oh, thank you sarah. That's right. Nice. I I do really to further bonus apple content uh The one thing that I do think that you can blame tim cook for is that he's had A couple swings now At understanding where the the the the next big thing is in the consumer market and not to say that Well, I mean, I guess amazon amazon cracked amazon cracked Uh, uh voice assist smart speaker. Yeah smart speaker and apple had a lead there apple had siri apple had the brand uh with that, uh That idea and still has not brought out something either on their set top or on their phone that can compare to what amazon was able to do and Uh, that's that's a problem because I I I do think that look amazon has some advantages in that space in that they don't care Who takes their voice assistant? They're going to want to put it any and everywhere That they can they also have an ability to get things out in in a way that very few people can but I when when the apple watch came out I thought this is tim cooks iPhone this is this is or his ipad, right? Uh, this this is his Uh first not ipod not ipad like this is his first thing where it's like look This is a couple hundred dollars Everyone's going to need to have it and that first gen apple watch Just wasn't it third gen apple watch closer. I closer did Also the first gen iphone wasn't it either though, so I I think you're right. It's just it was it It was smart watches are not the category that smartphones were Sure, I don't think the first gen iphone was it either, but it was still so new and different It was it was it was the apple watch everyone was Trying to figure out. All right. Well, hmm with all the limitations. Why do I need this? People wanted the iphone. All right, that's fair Look the iphone at the very least right and this is revolutionary brought us that style of mobile browsing uh, you know replaced your ipod and uh was a Just the ui of the phone Fundamentally changed what we expected from cell phones Like like that was yes, it was not what it would be. It was on 4g There were no apps, right? But it was still something that I You know pulled out of my pocket and people thought I had brought a shard of the future Uh, you know back when it first came out Uh in a way that the apple watch was like Oh, is that it? How do you like it? Okay And that was that was a a wrap there In a way that I don't think that Watch apps have ever really recovered from Well, I mean the the way I look at the apple watch was when it came out It was not the hit that even the ipad was But it has slowly dominated the wearables market and the wearables market is growing and apple watch is One of the leaders in that market. So apple watch is a success It's just a success on a much smaller level than the iphone or the ipod And arguably smaller level than the ipad although the ipad Sort of leveled out faster than I think the apple watch has the apple watch has continued to grow so I apple watch is a longer bet Which that actually may be indicative of tim kook's mindset his He he has a little bit of a longer term view sometimes or a little more patience put it that way not necessarily a longer term view But more patience Uh and and is willing to wait for the watch To to catch on but in the meantime there there was no safety valve for this quarter There was no growth in apple music or another service or or or anything to fill that gap to be like Well, the quarter wasn't as great as it could have been because of china But we still grew they there was no safety net anymore And that that I think is is the other side of it that there was just to me an over reliance on expecting that There always would be that that you know that there was that they were as you just said working with that And that I mean time ran out on it. We we've been saying since I was working at twit that you know Apple's got to come out with something new or you know iPhone sales won't last forever and the clock just ran out I mean, yeah, it was like 10 years later. So good for them. Yeah Yeah, I mean when when the letter kind of Leans back on well key markets of ours are still great Everyone's like okay. Well, that's why it's a key market. What about the emerging market? Yeah, right? No, exactly which is like, okay. So your products aren't bad, but you're not growing if you're not growing in india Can I also just say I was thinking about this the other day? I think the whole idea of Like the way that we look at apps now is just like kind of so old and I think that there's like a We we all interact with our phones in different kind of ways like I very rarely scroll Through my like little menu of apps. I almost always search for something Uh, I just feel like there is a beyond some of the problems that ios has had in terms of bugs Like I just I feel like there's there's a way that they could have at least distinguished The way that we interact with our phones even if some of the hardware was Always going to be something that would you know beyond this slow train to commodityville Yeah, that is a good point. It's it's Well, there was a time where I was doing an iphone app show So I had like millions of apps on my phone at all times. It was crazy But okay, not millions but many more than the average person a lot more and and some of those are still there and and but but I think that Most people I don't know use five apps over and over right? Maybe not counting the email app and It but I'm the same way where there are apps that I'm using Regularly that aren't even on my home screen But I'm just Scrolling down because they're in my recents and it's just there's a funny weird pattern sometimes I go like this is just not the way this phone is supposed to be used. It works fine But it's a funny pattern that I've kind of fallen into Where my obsessive use of apps that I go through every day right the contributing to my to my overuse of looking at my iphone screen is not exactly the way Ios has laid out or intended to be used No, uh, and and that's that's where I've kind of come to the conclusion that at times it feels like I'm working around The point of the os like how I used to use it in a way that it is still kind of laid out Instead of fundamentally saying all right, we want everybody to go here Let's be bold, you know, like we were with the charging cord uh this is Uh, uh We're gonna say no now you interact with things by just searching for them We're gonna have great predictive apps and it's going to be smarter than it's ever been And your screen will always be Predictive right and you can pin four of them and the rest is going to be the easiest search. We've ever had That'll have even more the the predictive stuff that isn't already right there It'll be more predictive right in in front of you when you search in a way that I just I don't know I I I I found myself looking at ios and being like This just kind of feels like the same thing doesn't feel fundamentally different over, you know, 11 years Hmm The core philosophy I guess No, I'm looking at my phone right now and I'm just like yeah this this I mean I have an iphone 10 in front of me and This layout on the front is not significantly different than it was in 2007 Well, and that's why I'm always complaining about face ID Most people don't hate face ID and it works fine Unless I'm at an angle and I have to hold on my phone whatever But that's part of the reason where I was like getting rid of the home button doesn't really change my life guys It's the same phone It's just instead of touch ID to unlock my phone. It's face ID They're there and I know that that's There there are folks there who are purists and say get rid of the button. It's better without the button fine Yeah, I remember because I missed the iphone 10 cycle So I was my phone was was a little long in the tooth. It was a seven plus and I What I got the new phone I was like, okay. Yeah, it's more modern But the iphone experience itself wasn't some mind-blowing cool new thing at all. It's the same thing It's been the same thing for a while Unless you declare app bankruptcy every time you get a new phone and Reorder and you make your home screen all cool and you know all of that It's like all I'm ever doing is restoring from a backup. It's the same phone again. Just yeah But you know a little snappier battery life and uh, no shattered screens and that was one of those things that Steve Jobs was great at was developing Hardware for use cases which is why like Uh, contrary to where the thought was at the beginning of mp3 players where it was like more more more more more Uh, as soon as there was always going to be a product for the music hounds That needed their entire music collection in their pocket at all time, right? I think there still is some ipod that just has you know a thousand songs in your pocket, right? Yeah, so so once once they had the ipod the initial thing there was always going to be the big storage locker version But the commercial version got Smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller maybe too small with the shuffle What it just got to a point of like plugging in your your your buds and shaking it so a random Play but it's like the idea there was most people don't listen to more than three albums Now there are music hounds that'll be the loudest that say they need everything But most people don't and so the hardware kind of went with it Uh, which is fascinating and and now I don't know if there's that same Spirit like to me apple the future of apple what I've where I've wanted it to go is Uh How does everything connect and now we're kind of there with the air buds air buds kind of connect for me The idea that sometimes it's on my watch sometimes it's on my phone sometimes it's on my computer I don't care. It's always connected. It's super easy to do and we can go from there But it hasn't moved quite as fast at least as I would have thought it would And some of us have weird ears and can't even use the air pods I mean, so what about that you get a thing you would need an attack. I don't want a thing You can get it. He wants it to just work just right. Yeah No, but even no you can get you can get like the gel Uh, uh things that that fit into your ear better I'll I will be honest and you can flame me if you like I think they look stupid and that's why I don't have a pair Oh, I had I had to wait for society to turn I had to wait for everybody to decide that the emperor was wearing no clothes for me to buy one because initially I thought they looked really stupid They bother me a hundred percent of the time when I see someone wearing them And it's not because the person looks stupid I don't understand. They just bother me. Oh, why why would you think they look? And I know you've got a pair so it's like I don't think this is it's not directed at anyone specifically They just bother me I asked the other day. I was all the fun with him is like why you have cigarette But stick it out of your ears. He knew exactly what they were Yeah, see I Just give me a pair that just go in my ears and don't hang down a tiny bit. Well, they do that You can pull them out Right, you don't want to like How do I get them? Well, give me a tiny notch or I don't know. I don't know I am actually fine with just wearing big honking Headphones on my head. I like I never understood my problem that either. It's like It it works and I don't need to look at you. Yeah, but like walking around the street Yeah, I used to I used to wear Headphones exactly the same on sarah's head when I used to commute to work on bark. It was great So you're you're just like an NBA player walking into the arena like if I Tom knows I really don't care what most people think Like the idea of like beats headphones Like that you wear all the time like gigantic chunky Headphones like like those are in and then have been for years I and I was probably five or six years ahead of the curve on that Like that word roger chang probably I it's just there's just so many things. I'm not willing to like Give up for societal acceptance. So one of those is comfort Right, like, you know, I have in the ear, you know, your buds and stuff and After a couple of months, I just couldn't wear them anymore because I always felt like I was impacting something into my ear Down my ear. Oh Well, I agree with you that anyone's ears anymore. So we're gonna say goodbye. Well, wait a minute We don't want to be impacting anyone's eyes anymore. So we're gonna say we will continue to impact your ears Audio folks stick around. There's more to come