 The People's Democratic Party PDP presidential aspirant Bukhala Sareki announces that the party is making progress to ensure consensus candidate. And President Mohamed Buhari has signed the highest number of bills since the Fourth Republic began, says the Senate President Ahmed Lawan. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacol. A presidential aspirant on the platform of the People's Democratic Party PDP Bukhala Sareki has said that they are making progress to ensure the emergence of one consensus candidate. He spoke in an interview with journalist after meeting with delegates of the People's Democratic Party in Kaduna. He noted that the party has a process that unites and is less rancorous. On what he will be doing differently if he became the president of Nigeria, he said he would ensure unity, security and that the economy works. He added that the country needs a president with empathy. Well, joining us to discuss the issue of consensus and break it down, we have Ilemona Onoja, he is a spokesman for Bukhala Sareki campaign organization. And we're also being joined by Baribor Rhodes Viva. He is a PDP presidential aspirant in Lagos Day. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thank you Ilemona. Thank you so much. Great, great. Hi, I'm Ilemona. Thank you for having me. Great. I'll start with you because this is your principle and he's talking about the issue of consensus, something that may not necessarily be alien to the PDP, but it's not necessarily the modus operandi. I'll start by asking what's your position on this issue of consensus being that? Bukhala Sareki himself actually initiated the idea of a consensus. I mean, he talked about the consensus arrangement and that he began with three presidential aspirants. First of all, just to correct that impression, while he grew to be very fond of the idea and a big promoter of it, he wasn't the originator. He was originated by one of the other governments who was a party to that consensus conversation at the time. Now, to address it, our understanding of this entire consensus conversation is born out of worrying about the sheer number of aspirants on the platform of the party, particularly thinking as the party is in a position. At the time of this interview, there are 15 presidential aspirants. From our point of view, what that means is that you have 15 sets of narratives being included within the party. You have possibly 15 camps. You have all sorts of dynamics that are related to the pursuing of the ambitions of these 15 aspirants. The worry is that this may negatively affect the party. We have just come off the back of a protracted period of crisis. We recall the window to Bukhala Sareki, and he should know because of the time he spent as chairman of the National Reconciliation and Strategy Committee. We recall that during the 16 months lifespan of that committee, he travelled, travelled the length and breadth of this country and had discussions with leaders and critical stakeholders across the party, much of which has formed the background of his belief that we need to manage properly the process that leads to the selection of our presidential candidate later in the month to ensure that we emerge on the other side of the primaries in united, cohesive and properly functioning political machinery. The idea is if we can do one of two things. The whole consensus idea is that we can do one of two things. One, we can either emerge with one single consensus candidate around whom everybody else rallies, or two, we can have a smaller bunch of consensus candidates. Small groups, people talk to themselves, collapse their structures into one another, and then we can reduce the number of candidates or aspirants on the platform of the party so that the process is less rankerous, is less divisive, and it's easier to manage such that our party emerges on the other side of the primaries, like I said, a functional, unified political machinery. The PDP has been opposition for almost eight years, meaning that they should obviously know what the problem of Nigeria is and should, I'm saying should, because I do not know if they do have the solutions to Nigeria's problems, being that our problems are multifaceted. But if we have 15 of these men who think that they have the solutions to Nigeria's problems or are gunning for that, reverts it. Should it be a difficult thing to say, well, since we all have the same idea or rather we all have the same notion in mind, which is to save Nigeria, should it be a difficult thing for these men to ban behind one person or choose two people who they would all say, let's ban behind them and then may the best man win? Should it be that difficult for the PDP being that they've been in a position for that long and they should be ready, in fact, everybody was hoping that by this time the People's Democratic Party would be ready to go for this office without having so many people dragging the voters in many directions? I can tell you one thing, and it is that without a doubt the 15 astronauts are all motivated by the desire to pull us back and from the drink of the eight years, or seven years by next year to the eight years of APC initial, where these 15 men are people of very good standing in our sight, not just by the judge of their political careers, but also by content and cart. We need people like me to be able to say that I can guarantee that however we emerge, however emerges on the other side of the prime minister's candidates of the political party would be much better than whoever the APC offers. We can say that without evocation. However, what you see is that these people are not only a desire to achieve the ambition, the personal ambition, but also are motivated by burning passion to ensure that this misrule that the APC has brought us this far into over the course of the last seven years is terminated next year without a doubt. So it's on the one hand, while you can say, oh yeah, we do need to talk and find a way to line up behind one or two other candidates, we must also recognize what the motivations are. And the truth about this is as with motivations such as that, when there is a firm belief in the ability to do better than what we currently have, it takes some conversing, it takes some negotiation, it takes quite a lot of consultation and deliberation. One thing that I know is that over the years, the PDP has always proven that it has entrenched within its systems, guardrails that guide the party to ensure that it emerges on the other side. We believe that those guardrails haven't failed us in the past. We believe that they will not fail us now. Okay, let's talk about the fact that zoning is on the table. Whether the PDP is throwing its ticket open or not, zoning is a conversation that most zones, whether it's PAN DEF, whether it's the middle belt's forum, whether it's O'Hanisee, they're having this conversation and we've heard these groups give ultimatums. They've also said they're not going to throw their weight behind any political party that does not pick somebody from the south. I know that this is a very sensitive issue, but why do you think the PDP chose to go the route of throwing the ticket open? Because many people hoped that even if the APC was going to go with a consensus candidate to go to the north, that the PDP would be at least able to listen to the yearnings of the people. Yes, there's the yearnings of the people, but like Lemona talked about, there's a process that must allow that your party does not include, regardless of what people feel is the right way that things should go. Now, there's also a primary process, which is the part where they select the candidate and all of these leaders have influence in all their states. They have influence on delegates pushing all of these conversations and highlighting them should also sway the delegates to vote en masse in bloc for a particular candidate that would reflect and embody these zoning values that people are seeking. And I think that in so doing, you come out with a stronger party. Now, everybody feels that ideally, power should shift. That has been encoded in the DNA of the PDP. It's something that has always been done. But then people will tell you that those modus operandi were broken by Gulag Jonathan. And now you cannot say what happened then. You just want to ignore it. And then some other people will tell you that even when Jonathan went to a zone to the south, northern candidates were still coming out. So there was also a disrespect for zoning even then. It's just that the party guided, like he said, the guardrails that guide the party to where it's supposed to go. For me, the most, the first and foremost thing in my mind because I was at the convention that produced Atikua Babaka, as long as there is a free and fair primary, because that is really what the PDP is about. It's very democratic. When there is a free and fair primary, everybody will rally around the person that emerges from that process. So whether it's 15 candidates or three candidates, I'm not too worried because there's always a way that everybody will come together because when you have such huge, strong political figures, the only way that there can be peace is fairness. And a process of fairness that produces the candidates. Talking about justice and fairness, the governor of the river stage was very vocal. Governor Wike had spoken, re-echoing what Governor Oguanyi had said about if we were to go with the issue of consensus that there has to be justice and fairness and fair play. But then you talked about party processes. What's the essence of going through a process and losing the voters? Because again, you as the party, you're giving us the person that we will vote for at the end of the day. This is who you're saying your flag bearer is. But if that flag bearer does not actually show or mirror what the people want, that means you're losing votes to whoever decides to mirror what society is looking for at this point. Again, I'm not calling what the voters are wanting, but I'm saying this is what's been making headlines over time. Yes, and you need to understand that the party is a reflection of Nigeria in itself. You have delegates that come from every state and all gather and each of them cast their votes. So if in legal state delegates are saying power must come to the south and this is what is fair and they cast their votes or your state, they cast their votes. You have Benuist, they cast their votes. What should come out of it should be the desire of Nigeria in general. What should come out of that process. So that's why I like that, unlike the APC that's more focused on a consensus or imposition. As long as that process is free and fair, you should have something that reflects what Nigeria, entirety of it, wants. Talking about what Nigeria wants. Ilamuna, what do you think Nigeria wants? I'd like to refer to a statement credited to an elder statement in the People's Democratic Party Chief Body, George, who has said that the PDP will be defeated in 2023 if it does not zone its presidential ticket to the south. Now your principle obviously is not from the south, neither is he from the south west. And he's also gone in for that seat. I'd really love to hear what you have to say. What do I think Nigeria wants? I think that Nigeria wants, I mean if I was going to be political, I would say that I think that Nigeria wants. If I was going to be purely political, I'd say I think that Nigeria wants my boss to be president. What does Nigeria want? Nigeria wants a kind, visionary, focused, committed, courageous kind of leader. I think that's ultimately what it wants. I think that if we come down to the brass tarts, we will see that the problems that plague us are neither northern nor southern. And security doesn't care whether you come from the north. I don't think that the person who is suffering in security in Tatsuna or Zanfa or in Benwe or Kogi or in the south west or the southeast really cares the origin of the person who's going to stop flying. I think that the person who is experiencing hunger in Bauchi or Burulu or Kano or Kaduna doesn't really care who's going to provide food. I think that we don't really care who's going to stop the origins of the person who is going to stop oil theft. That is at unprecedented levels and therefore depriving government of the necessary revenue that we require to grow our country or to provide development. I think that when it comes to the brass tarts, Nigerians just want a good, kind, empathetic, sensitive, communicating, visionary, courageous leader. Someone who's going to be able to make the tough decisions that we need to make in a post-apocalyptic way. I think that when it comes to the brass tarts, Nigerians just want a good, kind, empathetic, sensitive, communicating, visionary, courageous leader. Those are the decisions that we need to make in a post-apuhari era without being mean about it and empathetic and humane in the execution of those decisions. I think Nigerians want a president who respects the rule of law. I think that Nigerians want a president who is able to safeguard our institutions. Right now, I mean, one of the talking points over the course of the day is that, I mean, CBN Governor is there desecrating the institution of CBN by being a member of a political party and purchasing forms to contest for the office of president. I think Nigeria wants a president who's not going to let that happen on his watch. It doesn't matter where it's from. Just uphold the value and the sanctity of our institutions. I think that Nigeria wants a president that respects the judiciary, the respects the rule of law, that still guards our constitutional rights and freedoms. I think that's what Nigeria wants. Ultimately, we will have the conversation about where should he be from. But the truth about it is, when you sift all that away, when you sift all that away at the heart of the matter, it cannot be determined by origins, it cannot be determined by which God you worship, what language you speak, where you're from. These are somewhat, and I say this most respectfully, these are additives. I think that at this point in time, the many Nigerians like myself, in millions, have realized that we're simply too insecure, we're simply too poor, we're simply too hungry, we're simply too unemployed to allow ethnicity and religion to be the determinants of our future. I think that that's where we have come from. The truth is that as good as that sounds, the realities on the ground is that we are people that are divided by ethnicity and religion. And the truth of the matter is that these agitations would not stop if something is not done about it. Again, many say, hold on, hold on, many have said that why all of a sudden are we saying let's, let's jettison the idea of zoning when it's the turn of the southeast. I mean, you have former governor Peter Albi, who is from the southeast. And many people are saying, well, give the southeast an opportunity. Again, I'm not also saying that just give the man the ticket. But why are we all of a sudden saying, oh, Nigeria needs this type of president and that type of president? Does it mean that the southeast does not have those kinds of people who can also be put forward for those tickets? Because every time we have this conversation, people always say, oh, Nigeria doesn't need someone whose ethnicity is not the solution to the problem. But then we had a gentleman's agreement, whether it's written or not, that these tickets would be zoned. Now the southeast is saying, let's have an opportunity at it. And the PDP saying, no, let's throw it open. May the best man win. Let me tell you something. And one of the reasons why, from the Colorado Archey campaign organization, we're trying not to focus on a historical recount of how we got to that conclusion. That, you know what, throw it open, may the best man win. Is that it can be a little divisive and people can easily get offended by it. And we believe that to be able to win this election, the elections in 2023, you need a united, cohesive, fully functional party machinery. Otherwise, if we answer the question, you cannot talk in all honesty about a lack of or throwing the tickets open in 2022 without first talking about 2010 and 2011 or 2015. You simply can't. If you do a historical recount, you will realize that in 2010, when President Goodluck Jonathan got into office, there was agitation in certain parts of the country who said, it was the turn of the north. And the zoning principle was violated then. Was it not? I will recall also that in 2015, no, sorry, in 2010, as part of the negotiations to get the ticket, there was a signed agreement and copies of that agreement are on social media that said, I will run for only one term. That was violated also. You will recall that in furtherance of the second violation, in 2015, in 2014, in the build-up to the 2015 elections, there was only one set of forms printed and sold to any aspirant contest for the office of President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria on the platform of PDB. Again, public information. Now, if you take into consideration all these things and you continue a cycle of who you violated, what will happen is that we will never have a functional party machinery. And without a functional party machinery, you simply cannot win elections. It's really that simple. So it's a little, it's a little curious that people only want to discuss history in the context of 2022-2023 without wanting to discuss the contextual history of 2010-2011 and 2014-2015. If we're going to do a historical conversation, do the entire history of the party starting from 2010 when the zoning principle was first violated. But in our camp and equally that increasingly resonating around the country, leave that alone. Don't do that historical recount why. It will simply further divide the party. Very simply, instead, let us come to a place where, you know what? We have never denied that there are competent people within the branch of the PDB in every geopolitical zone in this country, in the northeast, northwest, north-central, in the southeast, south-south, and southwest. One of those competent people is right next to you. My friend, Badebo, is simply an amazing person who has the sort of skill set to be a leader in any other country. He'll be in very high demand as Maafat, he is in demand here. And I'm very proud of his aspirations to be governor of Lagos State. But when you take into consideration that, that the potential of dividing the party, if we discuss ethnicity and religion as the primary tools to select our candidates, very high, once we take into consideration all of our party's history, instead of discussing that, let's discuss competence. I don't want my principal, Maafat, to be discussed solely on the basis of where he's come, his from, or on the basis of the God who he worships. He's a competent man who has character, who has capacity, and who has the content that is required in an epic country like ours at his time. I'm going to have to send you an invoice for this campaign, but let's come back to that variable. So I did ask him a question that he nicely vaded. Badejoj has spoken. Edwin Clark has spoken. Many people are speaking on this issue. As much as we're saying for the good of the party, we can't run away from the zoning conversation. He said, if the PDP does not zone this ticket to the south, now the south is big. Let's not forget we have the southwest, and most of the people we're seeing are from the southwest. We also have the south-souths. We also have the southeast, and this is detail for both parties. We're seeing more people. So when he says if this ticket is not zoned to the south, then the people's Democratic Party will lose its ticket. What do you presume this means? I'll say that the party itself is in a quagmire. And like I was speaking, I was saying earlier that the first person that broke this rotational movement of power between the north and the south that's really encoded in the DNA of the party was Goodluck Jonathan. This is a fact. You cannot, like he said, you cannot... But that's two governments ago, and the realities of Nigeria today... Exactly. This is not necessarily a Goodluck Jonathan problem, is it? No, it's not. But the issue with that is when you have an equation that gives you the results that allows you to balance. You go from north to south, north to south. When you start taking out variables from that equation, you now start having a problem where some people will not agree to something. You look at the way our national chairman emerged. It was a situation where it should go to the north. And you see how a consensus happened without any force or anything and one person was produced. And then all the other offices were zoned properly because that is what is in the DNA of the party. Now you have a situation where some people will bring up what happened in the past. Some people will bring up the fact that we've been ruled for eight years by a northerner. We cannot say that the PDP is in a bubble and that did not happen because what happened in the last time with the PDP was we had a southern president. So you have people coming from all sides of the divide. And that's why I say that Chief Body George has influence over delegates in the southwest and probably over delegates in the south. He has friends across the country, same thing with Edwin Clark. The delegates are going to carry these ideas to the national convention. And this convention or this Congress is going to be one that's going to be free and fair and the will of the people will emerge from that process. I have no doubt about it. Well, I want to say thank you gentlemen for being part of this conversation. We continue to keep our eyes on the story of zoning as it develops. Eleanor Nogha is a spokesman for the Bupakar Bukalasaraki campaign organization and Medieval Roads Viva is a PDP humanitarian aspirants for Lagos State. Thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. We'll take a quick break when we come back. We'll be talking about the bills that the president has accented to so far. Well, the Senate's president is saying he's accented to the most bills in history. We'll be right back.