 with their product that they've built in Node, and you know, this thing, and this thing, and this thing, it's just like, it's very overwhelming. A lot more than I've heard about, and I'm just, I don't know, it's just shocking. Well, the community is very respectful and professional. We really enjoyed meeting a lot of the people here. We haven't talked to all the companies, we've talked to most of them, just great, great crowd. I mean, good people doing some great work, and the apps are going to change hopefully society and make the world a better place, and make them do more with more resources and less cost. So it's a huge, huge win. I think just the beginning, I guess my final question will be to you is, what's next in your mind, and the vision of Node, and as this ecosystem's starting to develop out and flourish further, what's next for Node? So we're very much focused on growing the community and making sure that the experience for people coming into Node is a good one. And for a long time, growing the community meant making Node itself better, like fixing bugs and fixing performance and making sure that it compiles on, it runs on Windows. Those were our bottlenecks for a while, but now actually it's running pretty well. It runs on Windows. We have installers for Macintosh, right? You can go to the website, you can download it. That's no longer our bottleneck. What our bottleneck is, is bringing in all the third-party modules and building a website where people can go to Node and discover everything, all of the various modules that you can just kind of plug into your app. We have over 6,000 modules now for Node, and it's becoming a real problem that people come to it and they're like, oh, I need to connect to MySQL. There's 20 options. Am I going to sit down and evaluate all of these code bases? No, you need some sort of rating system. You need some sort of way of showing people what is the best one, what's the up-and-coming one, which ones are total shit and you should not use, and we just need to make that all very, very clear to people immediately, and that's what we're not doing a good job at right now, and that's what we'll be working on. Well, we'll certainly help you get the word out and anything you need from SiliconANGLE. We're looking forward to working with you guys with DevOpsANGLE. We're going to cover you guys and be part of that community. We love it. Great success. We're here inside theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE.com, with Clint Finley and Ryan Dahl, the creator of Node.js. Huge momentum, great success, a lot of value, great performance, and we're excited to be here at Node Summit live in San Francisco. So we'll be right back with more interviews in five minutes. The cube is this conceptual box, if you will, and we bring people inside of theCUBE, and then we share ideas, but those ideas don't stay inside the cube. We explode that idea. We allow that idea to grow and grow, and it does. So we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space, and that's what we're all about. We take analysis, we take publishing, we take news, and we take live TV, and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community. No one's doing what we're doing. What we're doing, in my opinion, is the future of media, future of television, future of the internet. Video is an amazing, powerful product. So we work in what John and I talk about as a data model. People always say to us, well, how do you guys make money? We sell knowledge, we sell information, we sell data. So the problem that we are, that we identified is about what we call big, fast, total data. Anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data. If you do 1,000 gigabytes, that's a terabyte of data. You take 1,000 terabytes, that's a petabyte of data. 1,000 petabytes, that's a zabyte of data. So you are talking big data, lots and lots of data, and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in, right? The cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports. John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech. And so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future with us. Michael Sean Wright, Mark Hopkins, we've got Kim here today. We've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristen Nicole. So she has a team that help feed us the news of the day, what's happening, the analysis. We have a team of analysts, they feed us information about what's happening. And then really importantly, we have a community, a big community of many hundreds of contributors. We love technology, we love the innovation, and that's what we do. We want to create a great user experience. And in order to do that properly, you've got to really, really prepare. The Cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very, very successful. And companies do pay us to come here. I think the companies who bring us in with the Cube get two things. They get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it as demand for the product and also compliments their existing media. We're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that. So we compliment that by offering a objective, organic, third party, independent analysis of the event. That's why the top executives come in here. The Cube is a comfortable place. It's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world. And we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer. My entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private forum. What the Cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience. I mean, we've reached millions with the Cube and it's real time, it's live TV. So you've got to be quick on your feet, but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning. So John and I play off of that. We're constantly trying to up our game. Okay, we're back inside the Cube live in San Francisco, California at Node Summit here. Day two, Node Jam, all the startups are out there talking to the investors in the crowd, showing them their apps built on Node. I'm John Furrier, founder of SiliconANGLE.com, SiliconANGLE.tv, and this is the Cube. This is where we broadcast live. I'm here with Ben Lowenstein and Robert Daphouse. Daphouse, if you're a hockey player, you'll know the name, played with the Sharpskay from Canada, as you said earlier. Okay, and what's your company name? So we are Colingo. Colingo, not to be confused with Colinga, which is the town on Route 101. No, that would definitely be unfortunate. Okay, so welcome to the Cube, guys. So what's the vibe here? Tell us what you guys are doing here and your product and company. Absolutely. So we are Colingo, and we are solving the problem of intermediate English learners worldwide. And this is a problem that's not well understood here in the US, but this is not like you or I who needs to go and learn the basics of French because we want to go out to a nice dinner and impress someone, or we want to know a little bit of Italian for the trip that we have to Italy. We're dealing with people who need English because it makes the difference of getting the job or not getting the job. Being able to seize opportunities or not seizing opportunities. And so we have a real time online tutoring marketplace where learners can come and we match them up with tutors for very advanced, very focused language tutoring sessions that get straight to the bottom of the problems that prevent them from being fluent. So us, Lee, we're huge, we have a project we're working on called Silicon Academy, which is kind of like our open source project, just getting off the ground. We know about Khan Academy, we hear about Code Academy, just good funding. So online learning is changing. This isn't just like online course where it's a different paradigm of learning. So is that where you guys are going in here and how does the product work? Do people opt in? Is it crowdsourced? How is your platform working? Absolutely. So we're really focused on how we can take someone from the United States, an average American who has one thing that really matters to learners abroad, which is the intuitive ability to listen and to help someone practice their English and matching them with our toolset and our technology that enables them to become a really great language tutor and to be able from the comfort of their home with basically no experience to be an awesome tutor that can really help a learner get to the very specific problems that prevent them from fluency. So it's a marketplace? So that's the primary business model. So you have to match buyers and sellers, all that good stuff, kind of like match.com for English. But so there's some tech involved, right? You're dealing with video, dealing with audio. Yeah, we're actually dealing with audio and Robert can talk more about that, our director of engineering. Yeah, so Node was an obvious choice for this project because it's a very real-time base. There's a lot of interaction going on. When that learner is on the system with the tutor, there's a lot of information going back and forth. Node was an obvious choice for that. And we're also dependent on some third-party APIs, such as Twilio. So Node is really good for kind of sitting in the middle of all this stuff going on in real time. So what about video? Is there video involved? Not at the moment, there's not no. Just audio? Yes. Window with chat and video? Yeah, so actually we also leveraged Skype in this because Skype is a great communications channel. So the learner and the tutor are actually connected over Skype. But once that happens, you know, that just kind of sits in the background and then they go over to their browsers and the actual lesson, the actual conversation itself, all that value happens in the browser. So we had Voxer on earlier. They're doing a lot of that. You know, the instant messaging with the voice. We asked about Skype and so what does it work? What does it mean to work with Skype? To my knowledge, Skype doesn't really deal with Node. Or Skype just wrapping around Skype. How do you handle in the Skype thing? Exactly, we're doing what you just said. We wrap around Skype. So Skype has released, it's in a beta phase. Essentially a runtime where you can build your own UI around Skype and we are leveraging that in our system. And it was just a natural choice, like I said, to use Skype because they do have some great features in their network that we don't really have to worry about, you know, they just deliver a good call. Great, so where are you guys now? Tell us about the company status. Funded, angel funded, not funded, looking for funding. How many people? Sure. Where are you guys at? So we're three people right now. My co-founder, Lee Jacobs, myself and Robert. Full time, we're looking to hire one more. That's actually why we're here at Node Conference. And if there's anyone in this audience that is a Node developer and would like to come work on some awesome, awesome challenges, please get in touch with us. So we were talking last night about this person you're trying to hire. It's a tough hire, right? It's a JavaScript person. Just describe the person you're looking for. So we're really looking for someone who has the ability to think in an architectural sense about Node, who wants to take Node from kind of a basic hacking on it, we can make something work application to an application that's really well structured, well tested. Something that's very smooth, very robust, and can link in with a lot of the external APIs, such as Skype, that we're working with. So where are you guys at with the product now? Is it actually working with some folks using it, or is it still being developed? Yeah, absolutely. So we're in a private beta right now, and we actually have people who are using the product coming back every day, loving the experience. We're keeping things very small at the moment. We're gradually scaling them up as we fine tune the core interactions and the core principles involved. How many people are using it in the private beta? So it's pretty small right now. I'd have to check the exact numbers as of today, because we just launched two weeks ago, so. Tens, hundreds, thousands? In the smaller range of that. Smaller range, okay. Yeah, so you're controlled beta. We're in a controlled beta, but one of the exciting things is thinking about distribution and think about how easy it is to scale a solution when you have all the core components of this right. So there's VCs here, so obviously Charles is running around, checking everyone out. Insuk Ray is here from Rembrandt. Have you guys talked to some investors at all, and what's the feeling from investors? Yeah, Charles is a great guy. I had a lot of good conversations with him so far. And in general, yeah, we are in execution mode at the moment, and we are really looking to go ahead and prove out a lot of the key concepts that we're working on. And you're based here? Yeah, we're based here in San Francisco. And you're looking for someone that person to be in San Francisco? That's right. Okay, so anyone in San Francisco Bay Area, you want to come join these guys. It's a great app, and I gotta say, the whole learning transformation paradigm is completely up in the air right now. It's a great environment to innovate. I'm a huge fan of Khan Academy, huge fan of Code Academy. We have Silicon Academy Project, which is just now getting up online, not really online, but going. We're getting some support for it, but it's huge, and it's changing the game. And the learning environment will be, as Mark Hopkins and I talk about, very Xbox-like, where there's going to be a lot of interaction, a lot of real-time data, very gamification-oriented, cool, things like that. So I think you guys got a good opportunity. Hope you can find that person. Yeah, I mean, myself as well. And it's really the opportunity to take code, to take node, and make something that's going to work for the two billion people that are learning English over the next 10 years. The numbers are just staggering. Get that product out the door. Ben, thank you very much. Thank you. All right, we'll be right back with a few more interviews in five minutes. A few minutes, not five, a few, and we'll be right back. Welcome back to theCUBE, Silicon Angles' live streaming television show. We're here in San Francisco at the first node summit. And I've got with me two guys who are really key in the node community. I've got Daniel Shaw, who runs the node-ups, actually, what is it called? It's just node-up. So node-up is a podcast, node-up.com, at node-up on Twitter. And the node-up live is something we organized right before node summit. And we also have Chris Williams, who's the organizer of JSConf, which was the event that, as Ryan Dahl told us earlier, is the place that Node.js basically launched. And Chris also is involved in a startup. I think it's probably the coolest startup I've seen here. It's called... Oh, you're being too kind. Thank you, though. I definitely appreciate that. For those of you who are voting. Aging safely. Yes. And Daniel also works at Voxer, which is a big Node.js adopter we interviewed Matt Raimi earlier. So where do you guys think that the node community is going? I mean, it's grown incredibly quickly. I mean, is it a sustainable growth? Is it in danger of growing too fast? It's, you know, we're at a real sweet spot right now, where it's small, close-knit, and everybody knows each other. We're definitely going to be going across the threshold in the next year or so, where we're bigger than the group of people that are, you know, you can keep into your social group. So it's going to be a real challenge for us. It's something that a lot of us are thinking about and that we discussed at length at summer camp last year. We're concerned about it and doing our best to be inclusive and make everybody feel at home in the node community. Chris? So I kind of have a bit of a different perspective. And by no means is that contrarian, or am I trying to be contrarian? My background is mainly from different languages using JavaScript in different ways and the general broader JavaScript language itself. I have a concern that I voice sometimes, sometimes louder than others, that the rapid growth may actually be the downfall of node as well as also the benefit. You saw it a bit with Rails as it rapidly grew and it became the monster that it actually was trying to combat. I worry that node will just, if it doesn't learn from the mistakes of previous communities, it's doomed to repeat it. We see trends in computing programming where the new shiny thing lasts for maybe seven years and by that seventh year, a new, new shiny thing. And in this case, it's node and eventually it'll be something else. I think that the best thing the node community could do, and those of you at home, would be to actually look at arguments that the Scala community, the Erlang community, the Python community, the Ruby community, are making against node and instead of fighting it with, oh, you're wrong, try to understand the argument, embrace it, figure out if there's a solution and a path that can work or if it's just a complete troll argument and just ignore it. I worry that the hype actually ends up hurting node on both sides, because there's a lot of negative hype as well as also positive hype. And if we could figure out as programmers how to just be programmers and not be Rubyists or node people, I think we'd all be happier. And I think there's been a lot of talk here about polyglots, but seriously, it's right tool, right task. Node can't solve everything, it just can't. Do you disagree? I don't disagree, no. Oh, okay. No, I totally agree. And the lessons of Rails and its meteoric rise and how it became a little bit too clickish maybe, want to try to avoid having that in node. And that's a challenge. I mean, there's a large segment of the node community that's here in San Francisco. I don't know if there's someone coming from outside of San Francisco. You get a sense that all the cool kids are here and then... There is that sense. Right, so I moved out here at the beginning of this year because I really was excited about programming node and I was working programming Java and I wanted to program node as my day job. And San Francisco, a year ago was the only place that you could really do it and make a real career out of it. That's starting to change now. There are lots of great opportunities all over the world, but I very much see that it's still San Francisco-centric and there's a lot of core that's here. Well, I think that maybe it's that a lot of companies are doing it, but not as public, which is part of growing up. People don't wanna put out that they're using it yet because it's a, is this gonna succeed? We don't wanna necessarily be the ones out on the forefront and get cut by the razor, but we wanna be out at the forefront so that way when it stabilizes, we're right there and we're kicking butt. I know that I live in DC so I'm about as far from San Francisco as I think you can get in the United States and it's a different culture. We're still dealing with large enterprise government contracts that demand Java and so in some realms, it's a different type of world, but by no means does that limit you. I know just through the Node Jam, there was at least four companies out of DC that are doing all Node-based programming, which is really cool to see, maybe not all, but hybrids of Node in other languages. Yeah, there was actually an impressive percentage of companies in Node Jam that are not from San Francisco. There's this core group of the Node community that's here in San Francisco, but as Node Jam demonstrates, it's getting adoption all over the United States and I was in Italy over Christmas and got to go meet the guys at the Rome Node Meetup Group and they're trying their best to bring Node and explore Node. They're going against the grain with this, for them it's really, really new technology. Here in San Francisco, we've kind of accepted Node and it's quote unquote proven. They're just trying to introduce it at their jobs and justify using Node on their products. Now when you say proven. Proven. Do you wanna put that in like quotes? No, no, like thumbs up. Proven as in, Boxer has millions of users every day that run on top of Node. But it's not just Node, it's also running on C. You guys are doing the PCAP work? No. No? Okay. It's Node. It's Node. We are Node, Redis and React. So Redis and React is Erlang. Right, so we have those data stores. You have different. We can't just stack. We have a stack. There's no sane way we can do a database and the only insane person is Tim Caswell doing a database in Node. I would love to be purely in Node with a database, but the right tool is for the job. Right, I only wanted to put the error quotes on just because we're at arguably an infancy in the language. There are things that could pop up that, just because we haven't tread through the woods in these pieces, maybe it's just my cynical view, but we still find security holes all over the place in V8, not even in Node, not anything that Node could do, but because we rely on all these different pieces, I always get worried when we jump to proven so quickly and I'm not saying it might not end up being that way, but I just, I try to make everyone be a little bit precautions. I think that a solid architectural way going forward, we put a lot of effort into making Node work and we're pushing so much data that we've found edges in flaws inside of Node that you wouldn't expose in an express app getting a few million hits a day, but if you're doing massive amounts of data all concurrently, it stresses the language and we've found issues with buffers inside of Node that basically would not have been exposed unless it was at that scale. So I run into different sort of things. I'm trying to scale down so Node won't compile on smaller chipsets and more arguably fringe, but as ARM chipsets become more and more popular, it's more and more critical. So that's why, just to put the air quotes around, proven means everywhere all the time. Right on, okay. Air quote proven just means. We're using it and we haven't changed our minds yet. We haven't gone crazy. I don't think any language, Clojure included, at this point you could say that it's a proven language. It might be proven in some cases, but not all cases. Or well, Scala's been around for a bit, but there's one of the benefits of having years underneath your belt. Absolutely. JavaScript, the language has those years, which is a huge benefit for Node, but we still find things that are edge cases and cases. I'd like you to get back to community. Yeah, sorry. No, it's no problem. One thing that keeps coming up when we talk about the Java, the Node.js community is how inclusive it is. But as you said, that might become more difficult as it grows, but how do you accomplish that? How could another open source community, what's your advice to another community to achieve what Node.js has? Maybe not in terms of the speed of growth, but in the inclusivity of it. Well, just remembering that everyone matters and they have their point of view is a solid contribution. And we're, as a language in the community, so young, someone who's old in the community is like two years. That's not that long. So people coming in and approaching new things, doing different things with Node, have new and useful perspectives that we need to keep in mind. And we might be in some subset or some corner of Node that really works for what we're working on right now. But the fact that people are using it in different ways makes the entire community richer and makes the language stronger and helps us find bugs that what we've been working on, that little segment of it that we're working on, is not necessarily gonna stress as much. And the JavaScript community is, it seems pretty similar, a pretty big umbrella, inclusive, but it's been around longer, it's been growing longer. Sort of, we've had like ebbs and flows. So you had Ajax experience during sort of the bubble and the XHR giddiness. My wife and I started JSConf four years ago, and one of the things that we tried to do in building JSConf was keep things small and intimate. If you actually know somebody face to face and have had a shared experience with them, you're less likely to be like, that guy's some nasty word, or be very aggressive in a response. As long as you remember there's a human, we find that community works a lot better. We've, every year we've tried different things, and I think for any other language, keeping the intimacy, the meeting every person, the connection, and then also having some deeper beliefs that are just beyond programming. When we do JSConf, we try to make it a family event, and by that I mean, you don't leave going, that was a good event. You leave going, I made some really deep friendships here, and I may not see them until I come to San Francisco once a year, but I could call up anyone and be like, hey, kind of crashed your place, and they'd be fine with that. So we try to make it come in together, and I know other communities are doing that, and it's all in sort of picking the right values, I'd say, and which seems weird. It seems like that shouldn't be in the tech sphere, but it really does matter. So like JSConf, we run the budget to zero, and whatever money we don't spend at the conference, we donate back. We donated last year, and announced it at JSConf, over $3,000 to Gender and Racial Diversity Outreach Programs, and that sets the right tone for the community, that we wanna change the lack of gender and racial diversity, but it's not something that you can just do overnight, it's something that's gonna take a long period of time, so we wanna get started changing future generations now. Now something else you do that impressed me is you have the significant other track. We do. So that when you come to the conference, you're not just leaving your spouse or your partner at home, or you're not just leaving them at the hotel either. This comes from it being a husband and wife team that puts it on. My wife is awesome, and we came, I went to a conference in Toronto, it was a Ruby Fringe, and they actually had it, so I get no credit for coming up with the idea. It changes the whole dynamic. If you're a male or a female at a conference, there's a general tendency to go out drinking and maybe networking a little bit too much, whereas if your spouse is there, it keeps it at sort of a professional level, which is very nice, and they are happy because they're doing stuff, they're not cooped up in the room, and it really keeps that whole family sense back in the conference, and so I encourage anyone who's running a conference to consider doing a significant other track. So it's an idea, run with it. Okay. Is there anything else you'd like to say to the JavaScript community, the Node.js community, or about the communities? So there's something, we're going to be exploring doing the live, know it up a little bit more, looking for some venues. We might do something in South by Southwest, and maybe try to do something in Europe later this year. If you're interested in sort of helping and doing that, you know, Live Up Live is just us going out and sharing and talking to the community. It's not anything, it's a very grassroots level. Like a public forum, like town hall meetings or something? It's not a public forum, it's a group gathering. Something we have in San Francisco is almost every night there's some sort of a tech event, and it's in an office somewhere, and there's a lot of speaking and what we really enjoy most is getting together and geeking out and talking about what we're working on and sharing ideas. So that's the kind of thing that we want to share. And that's one of the things we try to share with the podcast. And another thing with Node.up, if you have ideas for, we've been doing deep dives, we did a deep dive on NPM, we did a deep dive on database. There are topics that you want us to cover. Definitely, you know, Node.up and send those our way. We look forward to exploring some of those more. All right, Chris? If you're listening at home or watching at home, before you go posting anything on the internet, just take two seconds, think is this negative? Am I being a little bit over-reaching? And that applies for all technology communities. I made a big call at JSConfEU this year to try to change our mode of operation. There's a negative bias that permeates every single media channel in the whole technology sphere. And it's a lot of bitter infighting. And it really doesn't help anything. If somebody comes at you, try to take a step back, see what the problem is, don't go immediately throwing back spears and knives and don't go plus wanting onto piles that really, you know, maybe two people should just have it out, not have the audience or the arena of people cheering them on. If we could do that, I think the whole technology field as a total group could be a lot happier and a lot better place. Great, well thanks a lot guys. We're going to take a break and then we're going to do a wrap up, all right? Thank you. The Cube is this conceptual box, if you will. And we bring people inside of the Cube and then we share ideas, but those ideas don't stay inside the Cube. We explode that idea. We allow that idea to grow and grow and it does. So we really try to own the whole enterprise technology space and that's what we're all about. We take analysis, we take publishing, we take news and we take live TV and we combine it together in a product and share that with our community. No one's doing what we're doing. What we're doing in my opinion is the future of media, future of television, future of the internet. Video is an amazing, powerful product. So we work in what John and I talk about as a data model. People always say to us, well how do you guys make money? We sell knowledge, we sell information, we sell data. So the problem that we are, that we identify is about what we call big, fast total data. Anybody can analyze a gigabyte of data. If you do a thousand gigabytes, that's a terabyte of data. You take a thousand terabytes, that's a terabyte of data. A thousand terabytes, that's a terabyte of data. So you are talking big data, lots and lots of data and can you analyze it in real time as it comes in, right? The cube is like we call ESPN of tech because we want to cover technology like ESPN covers sports. John has a great vision for what's going to happen next in tech and so John is sort of that alter ego of mine that lets me see the future. Michael Sean Wright, Mark Hopkins, we've got Kim here today. We've got a team of people on our news desk run by Kristin Nicole. So she has a team that help feed us the news of the day, what's happening, the analysis. We have a team of analysts, they feed us information about what's happening and then really importantly we have a community, a big community of many hundreds of contributors. We love technology, we love the innovation and that's what we do, we want to create a great user experience and in order to do that properly you've got to really, really prepare. The cube for the past year that we've been in operation has been very, very successful and companies do pay us to come here. I think the companies who have bring us in with the cube get two things, they get a third party independent resource to provide knowledge to their audience who are seeking it as demand for the product and also compliments their existing media. We're here at an event and the company has their own TV organization and they have to pay a premium for that. So we compliment that by offering a objective, organic, third party, independent analysis of the event. That's why the top executives come in here. The cube is a comfortable place. It's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer. My entire career has been really built on relationships and talking to people and extracting knowledge from people largely in a belly to belly private forum. What the cube does is it explodes that to a huge audience. I mean, we've reached millions with the cube and it's real time, it's live TV so you've got to be quick on your feet but you learn very fast and then you iterate from that learning. So John and I play off of that and we're constantly trying to up our game. Okay, we're back day two of Node Summit live in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier and this is the cube, our final wrap up session with the SiliconANGLE crew Alex Williams and Clint Finley. I want to just say thanks to all you folks watching out there, Mark Hopkins and Kean for producing. Great job. We're at the end of our broadcast here at the cube and Node Summit has been an amazing experience for me and learned a lot, met a lot of new people, understood a lot more about the community and the capabilities of node.js which is this is what it's all about. Node Summit is the inaugural conference for the node community and Alice and Clint, let's just kind of wrap this up. Let's kind of put a bow on this event here and what did we learn? I mean, I learned, I'll start. I mean, I learned that node is a lot more real and legit and high performance than I thought it was. And I kind of did my homework. You know, I was excited by the possibilities of it but I really loved how legit it is. And one of my comments in an earlier cube was I'd categorize this as a hurricane for, category for hurricane, mainly because some tiles are falling off the building roofs, trees are coming down, so there's some disruption in the technical theater and the business theater. And you're seeing that here, we're seeing VCs here, funding companies, a lot of startups and the geeks. So it's legit, what are you guys learning? Let's talk about what we've learned, Clint. I think what I saw that sticking with me the most is that there are some pretty serious unresolved controversies in the way node relates to other technologies. Talking to node skeptics, there's a lot of discussion of things like Java's netty framework, Python's twisted framework, or the capabilities that are in the programming language, Airlang. And some people say, well, node does certain things better than those or that you can do certain things easier in node than you can do with those. But there's other people who say, well, no, that's not true. You could totally do something so much easier and twisted than you could in node. And I haven't seen any resolution to that. So I guess maybe that's a cop out of this, I didn't really learn something in particular. Maybe that was an observation. I think that speaks to the community too. It's a very young community. And the people here, a lot of them, are very innovative and the level of sophistication I saw in the startups was much greater than I've seen in other events that I've been where there's been startup competitions. And so that's encouraging. I think that there's just gonna have to be some maturing in like how these front end, really these front end developers for the most part interact with the bat, and learn more about the systems behind it. Sure, but there were some people here who they weren't front end developers. They were back end developers. You just saw the potential to do something really simple in JavaScript. For sure. But I think that there is this perception of like it's real time capabilities and ability to do so much so easily. But there's not that deeper understanding of the systems behind it. Well, I think that's what Stio's slosh nagers of view that the operation side is a lot different from the software side, which is the programming side. But it's clear to me though, Alex, on that point that there is some advantages, real advantage, and we're seeing the demos here and the actual products where Node is specifically a benefit like Voxer. We're seeing some of the companies up there handling the chat stuff. There's some specific product benefits that are actually realized today. So the question of how that affects ops and the scale point is a whole another conversation. I think that's worth watching. And I learned, that was one of my big learning points was it's great on that side, the DevOps side, the programming, the rapid iteration, the Agile programming, all that stuff. Ain't that goes on in open source and commercialization of these kinds of products. But in the real world, in these big enterprises, in these big service providers, there's a real ops issue around systems performance that is a whole another league of its own. So I think that's something that I learned that it's actually pretty obvious when you think about it but it's clear that there's two worlds. That was interesting. There's some things that I really find quite compelling about what we're seeing. Again, those real time capabilities, the way that platforms are emerging for delivering messages, for instance, to multi-player, it's MMO, it's called multi-player games. And how those are, you know, and how there's kind of like this ecosystem emerging that's building very, very quickly. And, you know, Stephen O'Grady was saying on theCUBE earlier today that he's never seen anything grow as quickly as Node.js has. And he says he's never seen a technology go into the trough of disillusionment so fast. And he thinks that's where we are now and he's just uncertain if it's been spit out the other side and now it's going to really gain mainstream acceptance but I think the chances are that it will. That came up a lot actually, the excitement of Node but also the fear, if you will, around the hype. Or is it over-hyped? I mean, it's legitimate in my mind so I just want to make that clear. I do not think it's hyped up. However, given all the activity, it could be misconstrued as super hyped. So that's where I think I kind of felt and heard specifically that, you know, wondering and getting ahead of our skis as Charles Beeler said and some other folks. So that's interesting. Growing so fast, you know, it's still young. Yeah. Yeah, I think where it's going to be resilient is in its community and that's been really clear is that there's a community that's like paradoxically tight-knit but really inclusive. So, you know, everybody knows each other but they also make a good effort to bring in people and that's going to be hard to maintain that level of inclusiveness as the community grows. But having that community movement is what's going to keep Node around. It's going to keep Node improving. We didn't get Isaac on, the guy that created the Node Package Manager. But that's a big part of Node is how you can extend it with add-ons and modules. You know, it's a platform. So there's other things, there's Express, there's Socket.io. So there's all this value being created. It's a lot like a dupe when we talked about that. I think, John, you said it last night, like this is, the Web 2.0 era has essentially passed and now we're entering a new era and Node really is representative of that. Yeah, I think what Ajax was always kind of like, oh Ajax, he kind of thinks on Web 2.0 but actually, Web 2.0 never really materialized in my mind at least. And you can see that with, you know, what's happened with some of the websites that cover Web 2.0. They kind of turned into more about Google, Apple and whatever, but like I think this is really about what Web 2.0 is about because you're talking about web apps and mobile amplifies the value when you see that kind of performance around the IO. So I'm excited and I think, you know, on the community side, what I learned and I think this was kind of how we branded it in our conversation earlier is that the community has been described here in theCUBE as respectful and professional. So to me, I think really my observation of the community is it's young, still close-knit, but what's really impressive to me, Clint and Alex, is that it's respectful and professional. And that's kind of do really good justice for those guys as they start to reach out as we heard in the last panel around working with other open source projects. And it's a very open collaborative approach, very socially integrated, but I like that professionalism. It's a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned. So that's gonna be a big plus for them. Yeah, I agree. And you know, one of the things that's so refreshing here is you do see the power of the ecosystem in terms of the services that people are using, and how that's helping really, helping Node.js grow, for instance, GitHub. I think GitHub's a real kind of catalyst for the growth of Node.js. In other ways too, but we have the device market has just exploded, right? And there's all types of different services you can use to either build apps. So that's that market where we're gonna start to see the rapid capability to build applications is really gonna fire this up. Big data, mobile, all those trends are really coming together at a great time. We'll just have to see how big this event is next year. Yeah, I mean, other things that I observed and learned and watched is the systems architectures is a mindset, we've heard that over and over again, that Node is a mindset, the browser, HTTP, it's first class citizens are some quotes. So you got that notion that you got some more systems capabilities with Node, that was impressive. It made me think more about those systems challenges that Theo Schlossnager pointed out. And the other thing that I observed or watched and learned here was the entrepreneurial activity. So, and there's two points to that. One is there's a lot of entrepreneurs here who are really doing some coding, doing some good work. The Node Jam here on day two is tons of startups. Bootstrapped, that highlights the value proposition of cloud computing, low cost to get into the market and they could rapidly develop and get something out there that's functional and can deliver value. So I'm really impressed with that. That being said, I do not think that there's a lot of companies here that are venture back up all. I'll tell you why. A lot of the companies here look like features and they don't look like a real company in my mind in terms of the classic venture capital. So I think traditional venture will reject most of these companies. Instead, the angel market is so robust now with Y Combinator and Angel List. They're all viable under seed and angel funding because the VCs can let those accelerators do the work. On that. But the VCs are struggling with this because we were talking about it earlier yesterday and they understand that the costs to actually develop apps is so far less and they don't need that much capital but their funds are not structured. I got some emails from some VC friends who knew watching the program and they always watch theCUBE. But the comment to me was off the record and I won't name the source of the VC was I won't fund any of those companies there. What I'll do is I'll let the angel guys, angel list and Y Combinator vet them out for me. I found that very interesting but I think that's consistent around some of the other VCs I talked to. But I'll tell you what's good about all this. One, there's a lot of angel capital out there through Angel List and Y Combinator so it doesn't cost that much to get these teams formed. However, I think you're going to see more failure than successes and I think that's actually going to be a good thing. I'll tell you why. This community is so respectful and professional. I think you'll see companies get formed out of those failures. You better companies because of the experimentation and the tinkering of node will create more skills and create I think derivative ventures where people will find each other out in the community. Yeah, well, there's another possible scenario there in terms of the venture funding and how it can play out though. We've been seeing a lot more of what people are calling talent acquisitions. I forget the sort of funny buzzword portmanteau of it. Acquihire, yeah. And I think that could be what you see a lot of here is you said a lot of these look like features. Web 2.0 went through a lot of that too. Really what they were doing was they were building something that they wanted to sell to Google. And I don't know that a lot of these guys here are saying, well, I want, this is a feature I want to sell to Google or Microsoft but that's still I think a pretty likely outcome for some of these things. Or just frankly, just talent. I mean, Salesforce.com is growing like crazy through their acquisitions. They want the talent or they want some of the IP or just one particular feature. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. A lot of companies won't have a chance to fail because somebody will want to buy them for some other reason. And we know how. It was so hard to hire. I mean, look at how Twitter was formed. Twitter was formed because of Evan Williams' failure with Odeon, right? And they're kicking around. So I think when you have these emerging environments where you have these communities, the cross-pollination around the entrepreneurs will be really important. So I think that's what I'm interested in watching as well is I think failure is not bad here because there's so much skill acquisition that these developers are getting through node that no matter what their outcome is on their venture, they're going to be viable in any way, whether they go work for a big company or where they hook up with another entrepreneur and do something bigger. So I think the market will play that out. You know, I just think by my final takeaway here is like, this is such a refreshing event. I mean, it's so invigorating to see these people like really young people developing really amazing stuff. And that's really what it's about, just to be, you know, to see something and to have it thought through in whole new dimensions. That is a true essence of innovation. Yeah, I would agree. I would just say in closing, this is a great event, great technology. One of the most exciting moments as an aside this week here was the fact that we launched DevOps Angle. Yes. So for the folks out there, Alex and Clint have been launching these vertical publications. First one was Services Angle and the diamond sponsor there is EMC and that's all about the services and the systems and the critical infrastructure around, you know, big enterprise. And this week we launched DevOps Angle which is all about the emerging cloud, node.js. These emerging communities are really going to make a difference in rapid application development. And I couldn't be more pleased guys than the validation that we got from Dell. Yes. Can I show my T-shirt here? Yeah, show the T-shirt. There we go. Thank you, Dell. Thank you very much. Dell computer has stepped up to be the diamond sponsor for devopsangle.com, a new publication within the SiliconANGLE network. And so Alex and Clint will be doing double time between DevOps Angle and Services Angle. So we'll have the ops world covered and the dev world covered like a blanket. So look for all the coverage on Services Angle and DevOps Angle. And please reach out to us if you're interested in writing, you know, about DevOps or if you're interested in writing about this whole new world of services. We're actively looking for people, either as contributors or even as writers who we hire on a part-time basis. We'd like to add more sponsors to it. We're going to do it very much like the NASCAR logo, like the events, you know, Platinum sponsor, Gold, Silver, and then we have special sponsorships for startups. So that helps us build this great content and hire more people. And of course, theCUBE, we'd love to go to the events and we're going to, you'll see us more this year at a lot of events. Our next event is coming up at the O'Reilly Stratoconference and that's going to be really a great show because that really continues this conversation about DevOps and cloud with big data. And that is all coming together. It's a beautiful world. It's a great time guys. It's a, you know, we've been doing cloud mobile social for a few years now and everything's coming right into our wheelhouse and that's very exciting times at SiliconANGLE. So, well, thank you very much, John. This is, it's great to be part of this group. Right. No, thanks John. Thanks Keenan and Mark. Yeah, thanks Keenan. On the other side of the cameras all day, every day. All right, and thank you guys for watching all the readers out there, SiliconANGLE.com. SiliconANGLE.tv, you'll see all the reruns on SiliconANGLE.tv. There'll be a channel for, there for Node and we'll advertise that on Twitter. Stay tuned and if you want more on Twitter go to Node Summit as the hashtag and we'll be communicating on that in the back channel and publishing more and more content every day. So, that's a wrap from Node Summit, live in San Francisco. The innovative Node.js is off the platform, taking flight, Node Summit is coming to an end and thanks for watching.