 My name is Tim Waters and I have the good fortune of hosting this program which is an opportunity for me to be joined by leaders in the community to share stories with Longmonters about what's going on in the community in ways and in depth that you might not always pick up in the local media. So tonight we're live from the Longmont public media studios in beautiful downtown Longmont. The topic tonight for tonight's backstory are ballot questions that voters are going to see on the ballot probably the middle of October it's the in November 7th is election day but you're going to start receiving your ballots in a couple of weeks and it's important for voters in Longmont to be well informed about what you're going to see on that ballot. There's going to be a lot on it and of all the things you're going to be on the ballot three of the most critical to this community are questions that have been placed on the ballot by Longmont's city council. We're going to talk about those issues tonight and we're going to learn about those issues from this panel as distinguished as they can get with Harold Dominguez, Longmont city manager, Jeff Friesner the director of what we'll call culture and recreation. It could be recreation culture he tells me based on what we're talking with. John Solomon the director of the library and Chris Coker who's CEO of the YMCA of northern Colorado. So welcome gentlemen let me say right off the top how much I appreciate you're taking time out of your schedules to be or you are busy guys you have a lot going on both day and night right so this is just one of the nights you're going to be working this week. Beyond that how much I and others appreciate what you do every day right this is an hour of your time you you give way more of your time than most people do to the to the benefit of this community both Boulder County and other parts of northern Colorado in the city of Longmont so thanks a lot for doing this. Thanks for having us. Well we're gonna we're gonna there's a lot of conversation a lot of buzz in the community right now about ballot questions right who's running for city council who's running for mayor who's running for offices is always of interest and it's those are important questions but the maybe the most important items on this ballot they'll have the longest lasting impact on the community both costs and benefits are the questions about what's going to happen with the library recreation services and a center for arts and entertainment. So I want to get into this topic these topics and these questions to get as much accurate information in front of the public as possible Harold I want to start with you okay our city council put these on the ballot many of our residents I think the conversation gets started about these about the time they read about those being placed on the ballot indeed the stories start years ago for these ballot questions give us some context both for the well for all three of these recreation library and a center for arts entertainment where does these conversations start who's involved and what's kind of process for how they get in front of the city council well I think when you look at all of these items they started at different points in time and some of the recreation topic in particular actually started before I even came to this organization so when I got here and they were giving me the tour of the community you know one of the things we looked at was dry creek park which is in the southwest long line and you know when they were talking to me about that when that park was built that site actually was dedicated or designed to have a recreation center there and so that was over 11 years ago when you say designed where would people go to see something in a document that suggests that was the intent well that's actually in our parks and rec master plan and so when you look at what's occurring there with recreation center if you look at the parks and rec master plan there were a few things on that plan when I got here and started reviewing it you know one was a swimming pool other ice rink and so many of those concepts were embedded in this plan that started you know over a decade ago in terms of what we were looking at in the community and then you kind of fast forward into some of the other conversations we ran an initiative a few years ago that looked at the same concepts that were came out of the parks and rec master plan is that the the 2019 recreation center correct that failed yes um yeah got branded as the ice palace correct well and what happened in that was you know one of the things that we heard from the community and let me back up a little bit you know one of the things we're in the three of us in particular have to be free factual we have to be factual in this you you will not see us um oppose or support these items once it's pulled on the ballot initiative but one of the pieces of feedback that we got from the community was we didn't identify a location and individuals that lived in that area of the community um openly in front of the council said it needs to be here because we were told it was going to be here which was really the derivative of the parks and rec master plan so that history is a little bit longer when we look at the library conversation and and really when did that start it actually started we had a few budget years i want to say starting about three or four years ago where different community groups were starting to come forward they came forward from the recreation you know the recreation advisory board came forward sent a letter to council saying we want to see a new recreation center um just before that the library board and members of the community who were supportive of the library said we need to do something more with our library because it doesn't match what other communities have in terms of library services and so you know a fairly extensive conversation that really evaluated um what are our options even including um looking at a library district and comparing a library district to a more traditionally funded um creating a new way to govern the library right supposed to be part of the municipality so the council was moving through those conversations at the same time and then if you want to you know talk about the arts and entertainment center that was actually a few years ago as well when we were in um a council goal setting session at the beginning of the year and members of the arts and entertainment community approached the city council in that goal setting session and said you know we're really interested in we need an arts and entertainment venue in our community and the council put that on their work plan for us to consider we then partnered with um the supporters from the arts and entertainment group um visit longmont and then the city and we put money in to conduct a feasibility study to look at that so to your point when you develop these projects it takes years to bring it forward and in each one of these processes there was an there was community involvement throughout that process and really trying to understand what what does the community want what does the community want to see in these venues um and how do we need to approach it and then learning through as we're continuing to move so before these issues ever get in front of the city council and the city council meeting or on agenda there's been a lot of conversation a lot of public engagement as i recall that the arts entertainment discussion or a performing arts center got started about the time the contract i don't know how many people recall there was a contract once upon a time with the school district that provided access more access to the vans brand auditorium than we know than performing arts weeks now enjoy and um the the exploration of that contract put them in a position where they didn't have as much access as they needed for rehearsals and those kinds of things yeah so let's now let's the the least complex of these three questions i think is the one in the library although there's some complexity with it because there's two tax measures right it kind of this one ballot question but it's the simplest so let's start there john truth you're you're relatively new in this job uh you were not part of the you weren't directing the library when a feasibility was a study was conducted but i'm pretty certain you're familiar with the studies in the in the recommendations or the findings that came out of that feasibility there was actually two phases of feasibility study correct talk about what what we should know what should the public know about what the findings were in those feasibility studies i mean in general um and first of all i should say the feasibility study itself is available on the city's website um you know so anyone can look at that it was presented to council back in november um in that report and it's worth looking at but in general what what that study really shows is where longmont falls with the population growth in the library services we have did some comparisons to other communities of similar size um and essentially recognize that um the the current library staffing every all the services we provide in our current building and staffing was meant to support a population of up to 65 000 people i don't know what the current date is but i'm pretty sure it's closer to 100 right now we're probably 102 000 today correct yeah and so and you're right i wasn't here for that but you know i'm familiar with the study it wasn't done in a box it was it was done with um a lot of focus groups in the community over those few years so a lot of input from the public as well as of course staff so when when a member of the public asks who are you listening to uh my guess is the response say well do you answer that who are you listening to when we are before as you're arriving at a at a conclusion in a feasibility study like that i mean with with things like that and the way focus groups generally work is they they go around try to hit all pockets of the community so the answer is you if anyone asks that the answer is we're listening to you they segmented the the study the consultants during the study segmented the community based on geography based on ethnicity based on age based on interest correct to arrive at a set of a set of conclusions and and in off the top of your head do you recall or based on what you've learned from the studies what those recommendations were and what then shows up in the ballot question so the recommendations of the study basically in the end and first of all they what they presented wasn't an official recommendation it's here's where you are but given the information from those those focus groups and all the the research that they that they did behind it it shows a basically it presented some options continue to function at the level of service you have which i think was pretty clear in the study that's really not sustainable or get to what it calls a preferred level of service and that is is really what informs what voters will see on the ballot right now which is getting us closer to that with expanded services and a new location as you see in the question so the the the expanded services really there are two quite two questions on this or two tax increases in this one is is sales tax to fund the operations of the library to be able to staff it at a level that's comparable to other libraries yes the other is to expand our facilities and credit annex a branch a branch somewhere else in the community right i mentioned to you in a previous conversation that one of the biggest obstacles that are one of the i guess perceptions i want to put i want to be careful how i ask this question one of the perceptions that the community has is that they get great service and this is true the community gets great service from the library people love our library they love our librarians and they look at the library and think it's a great facility what will be different if this ballot question is a is approved what what should voters anticipate good question and i think that's um and you're right i mean this this library provides a great amount of service the staff are great for the community so so what would they get with this well there's a lot of community that does not use the library because this location isn't convenient for everybody considering how this city is grown so a new branch provides a different location for in access right there's a lot of things that this library does not do that we could in programming you know these days with libraries collections certainly right staple of libraries but but programming and events educational opportunities we have limited capacity to do what we're doing um and then the the last thing i would probably say on there is is the library um we have a wonderful friends of the library group and but they provide 100% of the funding for our programming so considering that programming is a central election i think that's the other thing that that voters get with this would be expanded programs and better support for those going forward yeah this is not this may be may be interpreted as critical of the city this is not intended to be critical but things like libraries and cities are municipalities around the state in fact around the country amenities like in services like the library or the museum oftentimes get squeezed because of competing priorities sometimes it's what we've had to do with flood mitigation or other capital projects or just compliance with state or federal mandates the way over which there is no choice health and safety issues and it's not been it's not been unusual for libraries to get a smaller percentage of general fund dollars because of that those conflicting or competing priorities that's why some some municipalities or counties have created special districts right to move the library out from underneath the municipality have a whole new funding or revenue stream so in this case the sales tax part of that ballot question would ensure that the library competes well or enjoys the same kind of funding that it's enjoyed historically and make it more current or comparable to other communities that's correct yeah i mean the library hasn't seen growth in a number of years and that's that's a part of that growth and that's what the the sales tax portion of that that supports is not only the operation in support of the new library but the existing library and expanding on that because of everything that was outlined in that study what we're talking about you use the word sustainable in terms of operations and services right here's what i'm going to conclude from that you tell me if i'm right or wrong it's it less sustainable if we do not if the community does not fund the library at a level that allows you to add the kind of staff that you need to maintain levels of service that people have experienced another way of saying that is you got people doing a job and a half in order to provide the services you can expand services and staff the way other libraries are able to staff it you can increase services and reduce the load on librarians and and maybe keep more people on the job for a longer period of time because they don't tend to burn out as quickly correct i think i think that's fair and you know part of what the study did too is it looks you know part of the comparisons were other libraries in the state of comparable population sizes and you know where long month falls in there is is spending really low or near the bottom on programming collections everything that's involved that this resolves you know people who haven't read that feasibility study would if that may be the one thing that jumps out how we compare to other municipalities this size just on those data points yes and that's really what this with this ballot question is attempting to address if people want to continue to enjoy so i'm just going to make a statement this is not a question if people want to continue to enjoy levels of service you can't do that without continuing to invest or growing the investment in the library you don't have to say anything that's my conclusion whoever is because i don't want to put you in a position of advocating that's the least complex the next most complex i think is what what we're talking about with an arts and entertainment center so there's a history here right it's it maybe is triggered by that by the termination or the the um as in the termination it was the expiration of the contract with the with the city with the school district on the use of vance brand auditorium it puts our performing arts groups in visual arts groups in a kind of a bind so pick it up from there what came forward from a feasibility study and kind of what's on the table now as far as the the center for arts entertainment so um obviously when um the the supporters of a new facility came forward we contracted with johnson consulting went through that process to understand what can the community support what can the community um you know what are they interested in seeing in a facility what kind of programs do you have in the facility really looking at what can you bring to the facility because uh bringing acts in is is an important part of the financial stack that you're looking at when you're working on the operational cost associated with it and so we took some time with it really evaluated what that looked like you know it really narrowed in that thousand to 1200 seat auditorium in that study we also part of the conversation was also related to steam as well and looking at steam the the area down main street between boston and uh first the river corridor around the dickens park whole area correct you'd also look at a convention center and what that was going to look like and i'll circle back to that as we began having conversations um on this item you know with council and and the group supporting it you know they came forward and said you know we really want this for our community and we're willing to they said we would put 35 million dollars toward this project and that's really what started making this question a little more complex because in other communities that you tend to fund all of it via the tax dollars in this case they said we want to commit to raising 35 million and we don't want and the way the ballot question is written is the tax will not begin until we have 35 million in hand that we can dedicate to this project and so this ballot question is different and it's different because it's predicated on the group supporting it don't getting 35 million worth of donations to bring into the project which will then trigger the tax to start so no tax this passes no tax no mill levy applied or no increase to the mill levy applied until 35 billion dollars are pledged or bank banked and that was a big piece for us because you know one of the things that we've seen uh since covid in donations generally is you saw a lot of capital campaign struggle afterwards and so it has to be banked and it has to be liquid so that we can issue the tax and you can't be pledges so the question a question somebody may have is well why wouldn't you say to the the the group performing arts and others right who are interested in this project or this possibility why wouldn't you say to them you raise the money first put get 35 million dollars in the bank then we'll put a question on the ballot why is that not a good approach well you know and you probably have to talk to them because you know they had these conversations but i think part of it you know what what what i was being told is that what they're seeing it's really that chicken in the egg in that you know large donors wanted to see that there was commitment from the municipality on the other side we wanted to see that there was commitment from donors and so i you know i think what they brought forward as a suggestion to the city council really was trying to hit both of the you know both sides in in that you know if the community supports it then that helps in in generating donations yes so forever whoever had that question if they were good to go out themselves to want to generate donations and somebody says for what you say well something that might happen if it gets on a ballot and if the public supports it's hard to raise to stage a capital campaign if that's the approach yeah actually i mean the other item that has the same situation in play is is the um the wreck in the y item and it's really the same situation that you have when you get into tax credits and that you have to have your capital stacked there so that you can actually submit your application to the state for tax credits so you see a couple of on two items the same thing really starts coming into play yeah so um if if the if the public approves this ballot question we're we're might a center for arts entertainment what are the possibilities for where a facility could be constructed um specifically what what we've talked about in this is one is uh again the steam area and we're talking about from martin to main between first and boston um in the redevelopment area that we've been talking about that's one location the other location is associated with the redevelopment of the uh sugar mill and um you know that is you know what what we talked about and images that we put out there are some renderings of the shed in terms of an option for arts and entertainment but you know put both of those locations in there um a few years ago there was a visioning process that occurred that became out of which came the reference to the steam area science technology engineering arts and makers right makers makers uh and with the with the the intent of the planning process was to imagine all that's possible as property comes out of a floodplain right to be developed with the question what's the highest and best use of that land east of main street right from main street to martin in their corridor correct and as i recall that visioning process uh produced a potential site for an arts and entertainment center before there was any discussion about uh what might happen with the redevelopment of the sugar beet processing factory right not sugar mill yeah the sugar beet processing factory uh so there's a couple of possibilities right if if that project never does come together and i know there's a lot of there's a bunch of moving parts when it comes to that redevelopment project there are still options for the location of a center for arts and entertainment correct yeah so one of the one of the criticisms of of facilities like this is that not everybody in the community will use it right uh it's folks with a particular interest in the arts and if you're not or or if you can't afford right to attend you mentioned acts would be dramatic performances concerts and those kinds of things uh what's the message to the community what would be your message to the community not advocating but just the facts if this doesn't get built well you know maybe i talk about it in terms of what did we look at in terms of how does how is this uh how would this be successful in our mind and i think one is is what we really looked at when you talk about the financial performance what you're trying to do is as we had the conversation in the feasibility study was one to have a space where different groups within the community can utilize it and the individuals whether it's community theater or you know youth programs have the ability in a place to go to to perform the other thing we were looking at is you know when you look at what's the mix and how do you bring other acts in is a you want a diverse group of acts to come in because you want to provide opportunities locally for people who may not be able to go to other areas to see these types of performances and so really bringing more to the community um and you know when we talk about it in terms of obviously the symphony's been a significant part in wanting more dates so they can participate and in how they can partner with other school groups and bring you know do performances with you know local um school symphonies and so i think the answer is everything that we were looking at to build a capital stack um is is really what we're not able to do now uh i know enough about what's going on in the community to know that there's been a lot of talk among the advocates for this initiative um to focus on on partnership with the school district and kids teachers of in the performing arts area in the school district so then when that variety of performers come into town uh kids have access from across the community to a place like this to see that kind of performance to envision themselves now this sounds like advocacy so this is Tim this is not you okay to see themselves right in that setting and um with the kind of aspirations that that might generate for them this is a factual question what's the what's the most certain way that never happens well i mean i think at the end of the day is it doesn't i mean if it doesn't pass financially it's we can't do the most certain way that never happens that no long mark kid every stands in a real class performing facility and sees themselves there as performer is to not build it right so that's that's part of the choice that people are going to have a chance to make i said that not you anything anything else you want to add on this one good all right the most complex of the three valid questions involves both of you fellas it's the recreation package so i'm going to start with jeff and then you're going to be our cleanup hitter i'll be here i'll be right you're waiting you've been politely sitting there quietly it's not that you haven't spoken to i'm trying to understand how that has happened i'm okay jeff give us some perspective take us back you know that's where herald started but let's review how we got to where we are with what's on the ballot question then we'll talk about what's on it right i'm going to go back even further than herald that uh long year along yeah the long mark rec center opened in march of 2002 and within a couple years of that facility opening people were already saying we need more that it's it's too busy and that we need to look at other opportunities so jump forward from 2002 in 2015 2016 we started uh a feasibility process that had a a large community process that gave input on what what people were interested in and uh landed in 2019 going to an election to try to build a 50 meter pool a uh nhl size hockey rink as well as support facilities like fitness and and that sort of thing and i think we when we did that we we were trying to respond to the the community and what they really wanted i think we branded that election uh improperly where it really came across to many in the community that it was about the competitive side of our community rather than trying to offer a facility for the average person which i think the long mark rec center has really demonstrated that there is a real interest in people coming out on on a regular basis and i think that's more of what they were after at the time so a feasibility study that started in 2015-16 that produced an item a question on the ballot the community did not support for some of the reasons that you just identified how it got labeled for the community but the conversation the need didn't go away no and the conversation didn't stop right so just more recently talk about the kind of engagement you work with there's an advisory board that you work with on a regular basis you hear from the public there's been another feasibility study as i understand rec conducted very recently talk about the process who's been involved in that who have you heard from including our advisory board right well the advisory board i said our city's advisory board the advisory board really started the conversation again in late 2021 and early 22 and actually sent a letter to city council asking that council consider going to the ballot again with another recreation facility based on on what what support we felt like we had heard from the city manager and from city council we did a process early this year that went out to the public and asked them what they were interested in having and the easy way to explain it is they want the 2023 version of the longmont recreation center again it's 21 years old and they want a larger bigger version of that that type of facility where it could offer some competitive opportunity but really is about meeting the the needs of of the average person in our community not really about hockey programs or competitive swim programs which really brings in the why conversation because about that same time chris and the why had approached the city with a conversation that really helped to move the city's design in a in a different direction because chris had indicated that the why was really interested in doing something with an ice rink as well as trying to do competitive lanes to really try to address more of the lap swimming needs in our community and so it allowed as we did our process within the city for us to not necessarily spend time on an ice rink because that was something that they were interested in and we certainly both didn't want to offer our community an ice rink because then neither one of us could be successful in that in the the feasibility study came forward really focused on recreation a recreation center or recreation amenities yes uh what are all there were there was a list of potential investments the city might have considered or did consider actually they didn't all show up on a ballot question there were a number of them in addition to the recreation center we're talking about there was there was a plan to do something with or about centennial pool it's 50 years old the city's put how much money the last couple years into trying to keep it kind of patched it it's been million and a half thereabouts with you know we had the the flood that took out the the equipment room we've reinvested some money in that but really the we've had two studies done we had what was called the recreation master plan and then also the feasibility study that was done in the 2015 2016 timeline that really identified that that facility was was at the end of its life as far as it used as a swimming pool without a major investment the and so one of the proposals was to convert that facility into more of a court complex and really when we were doing our interactions and and in talking with the community community really wasn't that excited about that they really liked that it was a swimming pool and that it needed to stay swimming pool but city can't afford to do that with the resources we have right now we estimated be about 23 million dollars to build a full facility or 15 to 17 million to go in and retro a new new pool into that location which really ties in again to what the wise proposal was for you know the 12 million that's being asked of the public that not only would our community get a new swimming pool but they get all of the other things that go along with it so in the recreation package stayed with before you get to the Y you're going to be up in just a second um looking at a list of possibilities uh there's there was a there was do you remember what the total bottom line if all the ideas that were were on a list were part of a recreation package you remember that no I don't remember that number but the number we started out was trying to build a rec center for 64 million dollars to do everything this that somebody would like to see that as I recall was about a quarter of a billion dollars like 250 million dollars and I was going to jump in I think when we look at in terms of what feedback so um it was about 250 million dollars in total projects that included work at dry creek park that included some conversations at union that because of other issues didn't work right at the time at union reservoir that updates there and so council really paired that list down I think when we all saw the total number it was breathtaking breathtaking and and then the council began pairing the number down to to something that they thought got as many issues as we could really handle with with the with the number that was a quarter of a billion dollars and in that and when you that paired down list as I recall to convert centennial pool to a sport court complex was about an eight million dollar power stand right so without the why you've got the the 72 million for the rec center at dry creek park and there's going to be five million dollars for the update of the of the current one and then the current rec center rec center not the why the rec center well thanks and then eight million dollars for the eight million dollars for the five million for the rec center eight million dollars to convert the centennial pool to a sport court that's correct right that was the package now on comes chris koker yeah chris says I have a proposal to make talk about the talk about what you brought into this conversation well this is all getting so expensive for all of our communities and that's the big issue um and so more and more communities are turning to the ymca to say how can we do this uh public private nonprofit partnerships to try and get these things done that enhances a community and and just the very word community there's arts and there's sciences and there's technology and there's there's all the things that this is talking about that's how you support land value and house prices and you raise kids it has to be a community and kids are as diverse as adults are and so you need all these things you need the arts and you need the pools and you need the hockey rinks and the very strong school systems and st vrain is is an awesome school system and longmont is a great community but you have to have all these things to make it great great community that people really want to get get into and so um and one of those things i believe is a strong ymca because the ymca um has very little hurdles to membership can you get there if you can get there you can be part of the ymca because of all the scholarship and we do so with that being said uh we were trying to decide how do we take our existing ymca and and move it along upgrade it make it make it more strong for the community and one of the things that the y has done throughout its history is housing uh the the why after world war two became huge huge housing uh for the troops coming back that were moving into the city for all these jobs for the explosion of jobs after that and so we've had a very long history of housing and many wise have the uh use the affordable housing credits to build uh new wise and use the air rights to say okay down here's the why and up here is the affordable housing and so it's it's within our bailiwick we do it all the time so that was the initial approach to the city and then it got even further because jeff is a great director for parks and rec and he said what can we do how can we work this together and so that's when those conversations became which is exactly what you want to see from a city trying to leverage the assets that are in the community so we have great people to work with and that makes it work here where there's other cities i'm in where there's no way in god's green earth with this work but long mount is a community that works together so that's why we thought about this i mean this is not the only community this is not a project this is an aspiration but this is the kind of work your kind of um uh facilities you're talking about are under construction or have been developed in other communities right correct is there a short list of where if people wanted to know where is this happening yeah i could you know we'll we'll post that on the i can post that and see um i just toured the um the ymca in washington dc and i'm trying to think of the name of it where they did this exact same same project there's a project going on in the springs right now that that they're trying to get through the the city the process right now you know that's a challenge happens part of the challenge yeah there's there's why is there's why is in ohio and elinoy uh so so what i can do is i can try and and post that because people are going to ask that question they're going to want to go and talk to that so maybe at one of these meetings i can have our our partners with seledon who we're working with uh i i know that they'll be attending some of the zoom and we can ask them that question is that your tax credit partner yes yes seledon partner so carol heralds referred to capital stacks a couple of times to for a project like this to work you've got to identify where all the money comes from so maybe the foundation of that is the is 12 million now let me point out it was going to we were the city was asked was proposing to the community to spend to authorize the expenditure of eight million dollars to to convert the pool to a sport court correct for four million dollars for 12 million rather than eight you're proposing to construct a full service state-of-the-art recreation right center with housing in expanded child care facilities right and are you are you asking what are what are inputs are dollar wise well i think that's an important issue of the conversation that's why it's on my phone because i had that right here um so the sources uh the the low-income tax credit equity will provide about 20 million dollars of this in total um will the residential mortgage or investment from the investors will be 11 million for the residential for the y side 14 million city 12 uh the state of colorado about 5 million and the owner equity deferred fee about 2.5 million and that's what adds up to our 64 million now you're saying 64 million um there's until all the bids come in that's what we think it's going to be these are estimates yeah and it's hard too because uh this is a very developed site right there's all the utilities there the electrical the fiber the things like that unlike the unlike the other site where it's going to be more expensive to develop that site so there's there's a differential in cost right and so these guys have to think a couple years out uh of that and and and plan ahead what will construction cost be it may cost less it may cost you know exactly what they're saying uh for us it may cost a little more it may cost a little less until we get everything in there and start to value engineer but we're thinking 64 million is what we are so for 12 million dollars of of longmont taxpayer money the community potentially enjoys a 64 million dollar facility with the recreation facilities you've talked about and expanded childcare i know that's an important part of the mission plus right 116 ish plus or minus yeah affordable housing units right as we get closer to the housing side then you have to see how many families are going to be in there versus how many single people or doubles so that is okay you need this many three bedrooms or two bedrooms or one and of course you have a footprint for this cost of how many square feet you can build so if you have three bedrooms you have less apartments or less condos or you know whatever the affordable housing is what uh so a pool that was going to be turned into sport court now becomes for 12 million of taxpayer money of long taxpayer money a 64 million dollar facility there's a swap in here we keep hearing about right talk about that yeah you know i love the site that we're on i wish i didn't have to leave the site that we're on but we have 120 plus kids in childcare and i there's already such a lack of affordable childcare and then you close it for two years while you're building what does that do to the community and so that's why the swap seems to be the best way to try and work this for the community because i i just can't picture hey kids time to go yeah we'll see in two years so the parents good luck the y continues to operate correct this one as there's a construction project right once that's completed then there's a transaction right in the y in the city for the donation of the center in the land on which the recreation center and then there's we're probably closed for a little bit of time while we strip that building clean and put stuff into the harvest salvage as much the harvesting is a great yeah because that will help with our cost too because there's millions of dollars worth of equipment in that building that we can move right into the new building i want to keep going on this but we have some a live studio audience tonight and if anybody in the audience has a question i'm looking at my watch if they want to come over here where we could see them uh there i'm going to invite that question invite anybody who has a question to come and ask it as they as they line up over here if they're going to line up i noticed right right right so talk about what that is and what what uh interested yeah you can get this at the why you can get it online um we have the uh we have the scan codes that'll get you right to the to the websites where where you can find out information and because this is such a complicated deal but i think it's a great deal for the community it has renderings of what we think the building would look like under its current current design um for the ice rink for the pool for all the fitness the child care and what the housing side one of the what in the comments i've heard or questions that i've fielded from as a as the host for the backstory from residents is about details uh huh and in what you're sharing here is our qr code qr codes yes one more detail here's right right and it was a little hard at the beginning until i had some renderings because people are what exactly does it look like and so no one can ever tell you exactly what it looks like until we get done with with health the health department and the planning department and all those things but i think this gives you a really good idea of what it should look like and what the uses and sources of money are for it because it's just that all is coming to fruition until it got on the ballot there's no point in spending it being a nonprofit we don't spend money until we have to spend money so until it got on the ballot that's when we start okay now i'll spend time and money and energy i'm pulling together all those details for everyone and i think you know one of the us's question earlier so why now and i mentioned the low-income housing tax credit process that's a significant component of the capital for this project they talked about airspace and adding to it before you can go into that application process you have to have your capital stack completely built they will not take that application which is what we talked about with the city council is why now it's because the tax credits are dependent on that all right i want to come back to this but i we do have a question from the audience that is that is the chair of our the longmont city parks and recreation vice report hey everyone you've seen here to talk about these really exciting topics my question unsurprisingly is about the recreation initiative we've been super excited about the combination of these two the proposed new recreation center in the partnership with the why because it really provides better recreation opportunities in three different geographies of the city which is really exciting to see so i'm wondering if you guys can talk a little bit about one concern that we heard is will all residents of longmont have sort of equally priced access to the recreation facility so i'm just wondering if the city and the why are there opportunities for you to talk about you know pricing in these facilities so that people in north longmont feel like their access to you know recreation through the why will be sort of equitable price great question great question can i i'm going to do the shorthand on that we're not certain that the sound we're doing a new system tonight if it picks it all up what's the plan to inc to ensure that long monitors get access to all these requisite recreation facilities for comparable pricing i mean nothing's for even the city's recreation facilities but to make certain that people can get access to the right to the why just like they do the rec center and sure in new rec center we were able to to come up and and really figure out the ice part of it and come up with a with a great ice pricing plan the membership and usage plan for the building what we do for example in johnstown because the city owns the johnstown ymca is we have we have resident pricing right here's the resident pricing and here's everybody else that's outside because it's your tax dollars paid for this so what i can tell you is they'll be resident pricing what i can't tell you is what's pricing three years from now when this would get finished that's i i you know it's like what will a gallon of gas be three years from now i can't tell you but what i can tell you is that there will be a resident rate because the residents help pay for it so they get a significant discount i heard you say earlier if you can get here you get access yeah and you may reference to the scholarship program you might just talk a little bit more about sure what the y has done about 30 30 percent of our um participants are on fee assistance and you have to just be okay with it the other thing that we do a lot is um organizations have a chart right here your incomes here and you go across here and here's your price and it means tested yeah yeah yeah but what we recognize is because the bureaucracy is like me and two other people sure we have this but this is where we start but then okay so you just lost your job or your single parent or you have a child with significant medical needs or your elderly parents live with you throw the chart out and let's figure out how to get them into our programs that's what we do all the time so we have that capability that no one should not be able to participate because but you gotta be okay talking about it so well and i think i wanted to add so there's obviously we spent a lot of time discussing this in terms of what is what are the residents of our community get for 12 million and that's the resident pricing i think something that they they haven't they mentioned it to me but when um it's under construction and how members city pass holders can utilize the why when centennial is not available is another point so you know there's a a draft of all of these components that that are really falling into how everyone can benefit from this and i just wanted to jump in and point that out yeah i forgot about they're looking at some pretty specific details in terms of what happens here and what happens here current users of the centennial swimmers at centennial pool can be swimmers at the why yeah when it's under construction right right what happens this is i don't think this is an unfair question but it probably requires some speculation as well what happens if this if this ballot question fails what's likely the future of centennial pool and then following on to that of the why the current right so centennial pool probably has a life of three years left and if this doesn't go forward with voter approval the city will have to look at other means to either try to renovate or fund a different pool at that location but you know it it will be 50 years old next year we are not in a place where we can do major uh renovations that will need to be done and uh at some point in time if there aren't resources that come about we we may have to close the pool down if i can jump you know one of the things that folks says well how can you use other revenue sources to invest in this um and one one of the issues that we're challenged with is a few years ago um i can't remember how much debt we issued but we issued millions of dollars of debt um for the library for the civic center and for public safety building and that was basically money that could have been made available to this but because of the condition of those buildings we had to invest in it and if you look at it today it was all foundations and fixing health and safety health and safety issues we needed to deal with so from a capacity issue that's where those funds had to go because we had significant foundation issues so i think to your question is we then have to figure out and go where's the money going to come from why can you do what's going to be available when you're looking at the broader needs of the organization because it isn't the general fund and you know you're constantly looking at everything from public safety to social services and trying to fill that gap so i'm going to i'm going to interpret you can you can correct me if this is a wrong interpretation that it's likely if this fails there there's going to have to be another ballot question it's if it's 23 million dollars estimate now it's going to go north of that a few years down the road in terms of estimating uh the the replacement of this of centennial pool it's going to be another ballot question for substantially more than the 12 million dollars to get substantially less than the center that chris is proposed from the law well i'm going to be careful how i answer that there has to be a solution if the ballot doesn't pass we're we're going to have to consider other things having been around this process just enough as a volunteer uh i know how those things go and it's i just would it's going to be hard to imagine the city coming up with enough capital unless you don't do anything else uh to replace that pool short of a bond question and whether it's a bond question or not it's going to be way north of 12 million dollars to get way less than what you're going to get if this if this bond question our our consultants have said that if we were to replace centennial like for like would be 23 million dollars yeah so what happens to the why this the the facility i guess the land's not going to go away but the but the building or the recreation center that sits on that property now nothing it's fine i mean what it you know it needs a it needs a roof over part of it it needs a it's an it's an older building we just reinvest it and repair it and keep keep chugging along like it like it is right now all right so the why stays with updates and maintenance that you only have an expanded child care facility there no no and that you know and that's the thing is that is that we really the community needs infant and child care it does and this this does it it needs affordable housing this answers that it needs a local ice rink this answers a bunch of those things three e answers some needs in the community oh three e we haven't mentioned the ballot question three thank you three e three e it answers a lot of those questions of what the community is asking for but also what the community needs so i i know i know that it's it's always a tax-based question but i believe it to be worth it um so uh my last question to you was going to be why should people support this you may have already just answered that question anything you want to add to that no no i i i think the community deserves these services i think the community will be better with them and i i think i think it will it it's going to help us okay we work with children all day right that's that's one of the main things that we do this helps with that this helps us develop them sports for example ice rink swimming aquatics racket sports all those things they um very few parents put their kids in sports because they know they're going to get college money for it they do it for the values they do it for us helping them reinforce those things that happen at home and that can only have there's not a pool on every corner because you can't afford it same thing with ice rinks they're few and far between because it has to be city private government type of investment well i'm going back to the comment you made earlier there aren't very many municipalities who are a y mca and i know that you you continue to brand as y mca but it's the why it's the why you've dropped this not a christian affiliation no no that that changed so long ago um it i've been with the y for over 30 plus years right so y mca just rolls off but we rebranded um 10 years ago as the why because we were not the y mca we're not a a solely christian based organization i mean that's that that's a heritage thing that's not what happens now you'll be our our values caring honesty respect responsibility that's it that's as philosophical as we get and not very many communities cities in which you would make this proposal correct here because of the leadership uh-huh because of the community because of the shared values and aspirations for our children and families right in this community and long monitors are worthy of this kind of absolutely well you and i agree on a lot of things though we really agree on that last thing that you just made so um people ought to know as we do this live on september 25th uh tonight there's a there is an open house or program at centennial pool organized by a group in town that's supporting these ballot initiatives but there are several others coming up so whoever watches this from 9 30 to 11 a.m at the grozenbart brewery on the on september 30th oh i'm sorry i haven't had 11 at 11 a.m i'm sorry on the 30th september 30th at 11 a.m at the grozenbart brewery it's going to refocus on use of the ice and in hockey it's it shocks me that the hockey guys are going to a brewery should be rugby players going there i think so on the 11th of october at 6 30 p.m at at the ymc there's going to be an open house and then two zoom sessions one on the 18th of october one in the 25th of october at 7 p.m zoom town hall so long monitors if you're interested in those you could get the links to the to the zoom sessions off the let's get physical website that's the group in town that's supporting these initiatives any any last words from any gentlemen thank you for the opportunity oh listen hey i you know it's i i'm so grateful that you would give another hour of your time to put for this purpose but to the community after all the hours you spend day in and out we owe you we're indebted to what you do well and thank you to you guys for letting me sit at the table and being part of this potential project i can't tell you how happy i am that you could join the conversation long monitors that's the backstory on the ballot questions that you're going to see on your ballot coming out in just a couple of weeks