 Kauai Studios for another episode of Security Matters. I'm your host, Andrew Lanning. I am sorry, I am not live today. But you'll hear my voice and our guests are live today. We've got Shannon Eady. She is the executive director of the Native Hawaiian Organization Association. And we've also got Alex Strong from MacArthur in English. And we're going to walk today a little bit through. We're going to talk about a business summit they've got coming up. But I would like to discuss a little bit with everyone about how the supply chain that the Native Hawaiian organization is out here fulfill for federal government and DOD in Hawaii. So Shannon, Alex, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. I'm sorry you can't see my face. I know it's hard to read the talking cues when you can't see someone's face. It makes it really difficult. So we'll get through this. I've got a really bad cold. If you saw me right now you'd see Kleenex in my nose. It wouldn't be happy. So nobody would enjoy the episode. Shannon, let's start with the Native Hawaiian organization. So you've got the summit coming up. But talk us a little bit through your history and what brought you into that organization and kind of what brought you up to here running this summit and the things you're doing with them today. Sure. So my company, Holomow Consulting Group is actually the executive director for NHOA. And my business partner, Daphne Tong-Pave, and I actually worked for an NHO company. And that's kind of how we got introduced to the world of NHOs. Not many people know what NHOs are. So let me just kind of give you a little bit of background. NHOs are nonprofit organizations that own the majority interest in for-profit companies, many of which are certified in the SBA's A&A program. And as you and many others know, the A&A program is primarily helpful with respect to government contracting. So a lot of the NHOs are heavily involved in government contracting in many different industries from construction to logistics and some even do manufacturing. So they're heavily involved in government contracting as well as the supply chain. Awesome. And these groups are, do we, anybody, Alex, I don't know if you guys, does anybody know offhand how much, how many billions of dollars that is a business in Hawaii? I know it's several billion. I just don't remember the number. I believe that government contracting as a whole is somewhere between two to three billion dollars spent here locally on an annual basis. And that's across all socioeconomic, large businesses, small businesses. So I think that's the total dollar around that spent here, actually. And I can tell you that Native Hawaiian organizations that, you know, while they might be resident and give a lot of value to local Hawaii, they're international in scope. So there are Native Hawaiian organizations everywhere from Saudi Arabia to Germany to Korea, Japan, and all over the United States. It's a rather large, they are a rather large portion of our government contracting community. That's awesome. And Alex, let's go ahead and get an intro from you, Sarg. Let's do a little bit of background just on how you got into it. Your firm does a lot of different outreach. I looked into different organizations like this. So maybe give us a feeling for what, you know, how you're interested in NHL or helping out in Hawaii. I know you've done some work out here before. I've seen you speak out here. So, you know, take us through a little bit of your history as much as you care to share and, you know, what you're hoping to get out of this event as it gets closer. You bet. So I'm, I like to tell people I wasn't raised a lawyer. I'm actually a retired Air Force Intelligence officer. Went to law school. Went to law school while stationed at the Pentagon during the quiet time of 9-11 and the years that after that. So I've been doing government contracting now for roughly a little over a decade. McCartner in English is a law firm that asked myself and Franklin Turner, we're the co-leaders of the government contracts and export controls group at McCartner in English to come over and lead the group and really propel it. And that's what we've tried to do honestly in large part because Shannon's helped just from a random phone. So yeah, we, we, we, oh, we, oh, Shannon, quite a bit. So that was really our first foray into, into dealing and working with NHLAs. And since that time, we have really developed quite a, quite a bit of understanding with NHLAs and quite a bit of rapport with NHLAs. We've been out, I think this is going to be our third time coming out to the NHLAs conference. We have spoken to Hawaiian contractors locally outside of the NHLAs on matters related to government contracts and cybersecurity. We've spoken to clients all over the island, the university as well. So Hawaii, Hawaii really is a large part of our business strategy just, you know, candidly. But also we recognize one of the best things about working with Shannon and working with the NHLAs generally is, you know, there really is a sense of community because not only are you trying to do work and doing work for the government and trying to make that bottom line and doing it the right way, but then you have that cornerstone of the purpose of an NHLAs is to give back to the local community. And oftentimes as a lawyer and working with a lot of big businesses with, you know, very esteemed charitable wings, you don't really have that same sense that you have with NHLAs that I've actually been part of these programs where I've gone and I've done work at the fish ponds or with my clients giving back to the community as much as we can. So one of the things that makes NHLAs so special to Franklin and I and Ricardo in English is because we're dealing with clients that are helping others. So that's a phenomenal benefit. Well, thank you. Thanks for giving that support and thanks for your service as well. Shannon, is this an outreach effort that comes through the NHOA? So if someone, a new ADA comes to you or a new Native Hawaiian organization wants to stand up and provide some sort of a service, do you, is this one of the purposes of the association to help put them in contact with folks that can help them stand up legally or stand up business assistance or technical assistance? Is that one of the roles of the organization? Well, I mean, to be honest, you know, the primary mission of the organization is to advocate on behalf of NHOs and for the NHO program as a whole. There are often attacks on this program and other socioeconomic programs. And so that's the primary mission of the organization. But, you know, one of the aspects of this business summit is to provide some informal mentorship and networking, which often does lead to that sort of technical advice. And we are planning to have a few sessions that would focus on that exactly what you're talking about. But one thing that I wanted to kind of expand on what Alex was mentioning is just, you know, also the sense of community and how important it is for the NHO community to kind of hold this summit, not only for NHOs, but for other small businesses. I think the conference has evolved over the course of the last five years, whereas in the beginning it may have been focused on the NHOs and the NHO community, but it has evolved to encompass all small businesses that do work for the federal government. And, you know, one of the primary reasons behind that is because the NHOs often team with other small businesses. And so the NHOs recognize the importance of ensuring that their teaming partners, you know, are well-versed in applicable regulations, as well as just general updates, what's going on in the community, one of which is, as Alex will talk about, CMMC. So NHOA really views this conference as a way to give back to the larger federal contracting community. That's so important. I mean, that says the community tends to, you see it more in Hawaii, I think to Alex's point, or you tend to see it more in Hawaii. I don't know the other communities of the world, so or the country that well, you know, I visit them for a conference for a week. And sometimes there's, you know, Mission 500, they'll have some a charity event type thing going on. But there's a broader sense of community in Hawaii that definitely permeates the government contracting space. I mean, as a small business contractor, I think we're all very, you know, willing to share and work and understand what our role is to help. And I just see that out here a lot, I guess, because I'm here. What, I'd like to hear from both of you. What are the other challenges maybe that the NHOs, the small businesses face? You know, Alex mentioned that some have already expanded and they're global and they're quite successful. What's the barrier to entry for a newer person that wants to come in and maybe learn to leverage the NHO to set aside and the things like that that are available? I'll start. I think kind of like what Shannon was talking about, some of that the initial barrier is going to be regarding compliance, right? Making sure that your transition is small business to not only do the work because you can obviously do the work, but rather that you are in a position to certify to the government that you're meeting its litany of requirements. So, you know, we're going to be, you know, talking about CMMC and cyber security, but even if you're not in that supply chain, and even if you're not doing work with covered contracts or even unclassified but sensitive, whatever. Recognizing that, you know, if you're doing janitorial work, if you're doing landscaping on Hickam, that there are going to be requirements that you have to meet, that you, that there are going to be state laws that might not necessarily apply to you. We have a number of, for example, I'll just give you, in Washington State, California and Colorado, we have a lot of federal contractors and their employees have challenges because while it might be legal to smoke marijuana, it's not legal for you as a member of a government contractor, there are going to be implications for that. So, it's really a matter of trying to identify, and this is one of the reasons NHOs do a good job and the NHOA does a good job in working with these small businesses, is to identify, yes, the government can be a very lucrative customer, but it requires and brings with it a host of challenges that you need to be cognizant of or you won't be able to keep the money that they're giving. That's something that I see as a figure. And Shayna, what's the, yeah, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, you know, if you look at any government solicitation, there are pages and pages of all of the requirements that a federal contractor must comply with, should they be awarded that specific contract. And I think, in my experience, many small businesses just kind of gloss over those applicable regulations and really have no idea what any of it means. And so, you know, that could lead to a whole host of issues down the road, should you know, a contractor be found to be non-compliant with any one of those regulations. So, I certainly agree with Alex in that compliance often is one of the biggest barriers to entry. Wow. I've definitely been down those roads myself. I agree. It's a hurdle. I tell you what, we're about halfway through. Let's take a break real quick. We'll go out for one minute. We'll pay some bills and we'll be right back. Aloha. I'm Kisha King, host of Crossroads and Learning on ThinkTech Hawaii. On Crossroads and Learning, our guests and I discuss all aspects of education here in Hawaii and throughout the country. You can join us for stimulating conversations to enrich and liven and educate. We are streamed live on ThinkTech biweekly at 4 p.m. on Mondays. Thanks so much for watching our show. We look forward to seeing you then. Aloha. Hey, Aloha, everybody. And welcome back. Thanks for joining us today on Security Matters. We're with Shannon Edie and Alex Strong, Alex a major. I'm sorry, sir. And we're talking about an upcoming business summit that the NHOA is putting on. We were just talking about some of the challenges of getting the small business owner looks at all this government requirements and they're like, oh my gosh, how could I ever deal with that? And I know that in your sessions at the summit, you're going to be able to have some hops or something like that to help them. Shannon, are there any particular ones that you key on or that you like to do every year because it's a sort of an ongoing thing? And then Alex, I'd like to hear a little about what you guys are planning for the show this year. Yes. So we're actually very, very lucky that we have a great relationship with the small business administration. And they have always been able to have representation from headquarters at our business summit, which is always very helpful because they provide a different perspective and they're able to kind of update us on things that are going on behind the scenes regulatory and, you know, just in general. And so they have been a huge value add for this business summit. And, you know, we're just very lucky that they have, you know, been able to come out. They are very transparent and very helpful with respect to individuals that are interested in getting into government contracts that are interested in, you know, getting into or applying for one of the socioeconomic programs such as the ADA or HUBZone programs. And so, you know, hopefully we're going to be having a larger presentation from SBA. In addition, we will be having a number of breakout sessions. And, you know, this year, one of the big topics is the CMMC, which is going to be applicable to, you know, all DOD contractors. And so we thought it would be really helpful for Alex and Franklin to do a specific breakout session on that because they think, you know, as we've kind of mentioned before, oftentimes contractors are not aware of these things that are coming down the pipeline. And so this one is really important. And we felt that it would be great for Alex and Franklin to kind of focus their breakout session on this topic. Yeah. And it's really, it's really changing. It's sort of fluid, Alex, as we get into this, we'll talk about some of how it's in development, right? So everybody's going to have to stay updated as we go forward. I noticed on your website, you mentioned that the PTAX are also provide assistance on the NHOA website. And I've also heard, I think it was Katie Errington saying that the PTAX are going to be a resource for small business to get some help with CMMC. And maybe, I don't know if it's going to be educational or awareness-based training. But I was wondering, Shannon, is our PTAX active in Hawaii? Or is it gone? Or I know we had one. And then do we, I don't know. So Alex maybe has to stay a while. I don't know. Yes. That's a great question. So our local PTAX actually is currently not active. And so where we are seeing a lot of the gap filling is through our local SBDC. And they have actually been providing some of that training in the cybersecurity area. They do provide workshops on specific government contracting topics. And so we are hopeful that our PTAX will become active in the near future. But in the meantime, we do have SBDC and we do have MPPA. Okay. That's good. Because I mean, I could just see in Katie's mind, if she's thinking, here we've got this resource out there. Here we are in Hawaii. I'm not going to make a joke. We're a really big deal in government, in DoD specifically, with the pivot to the Pacific and PECOM. So we need a lot of support out here. And I don't know if she even knows that we don't have an office. I was just thinking that kind of came to mind. But anyway, Alex, I think it's awesome that you guys are bringing expertise out here. And I know you've been doing this sort of on an ongoing basis for a while. What's your take on the development of CMNC, of the program itself, and our odds of really getting it rolled out for across 10 contracts by September, I guess, we'll theorize a little bit. Yeah. Let me start by saying initially too, just for, I guess, kind of promote the NHOA just real quick. One of the things that I think is really great and kind of, and Shannon talked about it, the SBA people that come out for those viewers that are interested or curious, the SBA viewers that come out, or presenters that come out, provide some incredible insight. And if you, like us, have to deal with the SBA regulations, you realize there is a lot of space between their words. And what I mean by that is, there is a lot of interpretation, a lot of feeling and massaging, by getting to know the SBA rep and by hearing what the SBA has to say, you get a really good understanding of how it's going to be applied, because it's not very clear in the regulations. So the past few times, the SBA has come out, I'll tell you, that is almost, for anybody in the space, any small business, any government contracting attorney, it really becomes sort of destination viewing. So I just want to say that that program for me has been great. As far as the CMMC goes, you're right, this has been one of the most fluid events in DOD history I have ever seen. And I don't mean that in a good way. But I think they're finally getting to a position that maybe they should have been at initially, where they have a rather robust standard that talks about all DOD data, regardless if it's CUI or not CUI, and finding ways for the defense industrial base, the whole data in a manner that maintains its confidentiality, integrity, and availability. They haven't done that yet. They hadn't done that before. NIST 800-171 is made operable through the DFARS 252-247-012 clause, didn't do that. They tried to do it, but they really left it in the hands of the contractors and the contractors were left with two competing purposes, right? Maintaining the desires of their customers and risk and or cost benefit. So I think what the CMMC is going to do as a basis, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good idea. But kind of like you said, it's going to be a hard, it's going to be a hard slog over the remaining months to get that, to get it rolling out, not only from the government side and applicable through the government contracts, but also from the contractors trying to be in receipt of it and trying to meet this expectation that candidly is evolving, and it's really hard to hit a moving target. But I suspect and hope that where the DOD obviously has a dedicated and necessary intent to get this standard rolling, to get the cybersecurity maturation model certification standard ready, they still have a long way to go in terms of having it be fully operational and functioning in the manner in which they envision it. And I think by the end of the year it would be interesting to see how it evolves a little bit more and see how it's working in operation. And then over the next five years as it's being rolled out, we'll probably see some more massaging, tweaking, what have you. But I think it's a really good first start. My concern, as always, is the calendar of rollout. Yeah, I was talking with some folks about, we haven't heard the word mentioned yet, but what about a waiver? Because the government doesn't want to lose half of its suppliers because they were unable to be audited. Just as an example, the warfighter suffers, the mission suffers. They've got to receive the products and services that their supply chain delivers. When we roll this standard out, to your point, it came so quickly. I think there's 10 contracts they want to start this September. If that's 20,000 supply chain members that need to be audited, that's a lot of companies. That's 20,000 weeks of work, probably minimum. I would say it's going to be about a week for each one. So I can't do the math, but if I had 400 auditors doing it, I could get that all done in 50 weeks or whatever. So it's just a whole large volume of work. And then there's hundreds of thousands of contractors over five years. So I'm sensitive to your point. It's definitely coming. I think there's no doubt about that. I love the raising of the level. I think we need to provide a better, more mature product, more mature services from a cyber hygiene perspective to the federal government. They seem willing to pay for it, which was a, that was a new thing. We didn't hear that before. So I was like, all right, well, if you're willing to pay, I'm definitely willing to do the hard work. I think that's where the SSP sort of failed and that whole self-assessment deal. We're at about 25 minutes. So maybe some closing thoughts, Alex you first and then Shannon just on the summit and maybe what you hope to achieve this year, what you expect to see out of our, the growth of our NHO groups. I'll, yeah, I'll just simply say that, you know, for, for defense contractors, it's, it's very important to pay attention to the CMMC regardless of what you're doing. So you don't have to be a traditional government contractor. If you're doing, like I said earlier, if you're doing things such as janitorial or landscaping on, on basis, then, you know, you need to recognize that you're part of the defense industrial base. And as a result of compliance matters, cybersecurity matters, even at, even at those kind of levels. So try to find those avenues, come to the NHOA, talk to people, follow us on blogs, follow this, this broadcast, but you need to understand and confirm your compliance. Otherwise you're putting yourself and your company at significant risk. Yeah. And to your point, level one was always there as part of the FAR that everybody sort of ignored. So anyway, Shannon, what are we hoping for the summit this year? And I sure hope we pull it off. I know a lot of things have kind of been stalled in the event world, but, you know, we're all in Hawaii. So hopefully it'll be a, it'll be a go. What do you hope to get done out there? Yeah, no, we're just hoping to put on a high quality summit for all of our attendees. We would highly encourage all companies that are either engaged in or interested in getting into federal contracting to please attend. There are a lot of opportunities to network with government folks, with the NHOs, with other small businesses. And so it's just a really great opportunity to, you know, get educational training on specific topics and then to network, which is always very valuable, I think, generally, but particularly here in Hawaii. So again, this summit is not just for the NHOs, but it's really for all businesses that are engaged in or interested in federal contracting. Awesome. So the NHOA Small Business Summit, April 29th to 30th at the Pomaiki Ballrooms. Come on out, learn something, help your small business grow. Shannon, Alex, thank you guys so much for joining me today. I really appreciate the insights and hope to have a great show. I will see you there. Aloha, everybody. Have a great week.