 I think we're do we have. If Maria is testifying, I can't hear her. Can either. You can't hear me at all. Now. Now we can. Now we can. Oh, great. Okay. And how about, can you see the presentation now? Yes. Okay. And it's on full screen mode. Yes. Terrific. Okay. So, Maria Royal with legislative council. Nice to see you all. And as Senator Kitchell just said, I'm going to be talking about broadband. And the funding that's available in the infrastructure investment and jobs act. And the way I'm going to proceed is. Just give a very quick. I'm going to take a look at my presentation. I'm going to take a look at my presentation. I'm going to take a look at my presentation. I'm going to take a look at my presentation. I'm going to take a look at my prior. Federal funding for broadband. And how the state use that money. Really brief overview. It's actually only going to take up one slide in my presentation, but just to remind you of refresher memory of some of the steps that you've taken so far. With federal funds that have been available. And then I'll go through. The specific money that's going to be available through the federal funds. And then I'll go through the three categories that broadband funding falls into deployment, which is actually construction of broadband facilities. Digital equity, which is making sure that. All individuals have access to infer to broadband. Have the devices and equipment that are necessary and the skills to use. Of the internet. So that's an overview of what I'm going to be presenting today. And this is the one slide. That's going to deal with the prior pandemic funding. Again, just to refresh your memories. We still just have the, we just have the cover slide. Have you moved to a second one? I have, um, We just have the first slide broadband, you know, prepared by, if you've moved to it. Oh, okay. Now we've, now we've got it. Thank you. Maria. Maria, you also might want to turn off your screen. For, can you do it for your. You keep freezing is what I'm trying to say. Okay. So maybe I'll stop my video. Yeah. Okay. That might help. So right now. Are you looking at. We're looking at table of contents. We're looking at table of contents. We lost her. I think so. I think we may have to just, um, Not screen share. Yeah. Does Maria know. I can give her a call. I just checked my. I think Maria is bad. Yeah. I am back. I'm really sorry. Um, I'm sorry. I don't have a great broadband connection. Um, maybe the best thing to do, Chrissy, maybe I can, I can call in and Chrissy might be able to move through the slides. Is that, Or we can just try again. Um, Either that, or we can, um, Just, oh, Chrissy, can you help us with this? Or, um, otherwise we can just. Listen to you, um, go through it and we can maybe look at it. We've got it now, table of contents. Um, now we have the prior funding. So do you want to start there, Maria? We're on the slide. I'm really sorry. Let's keep our fingers crossed. It works from, from now on. Um, So just to quickly review, uh, the cares act, uh, through the Corona virus relief fund, um, Vermont appropriated about 17.4 million dollars for broadband. And you'll remember there was the initial one year deadlines, but pretty tight timeframe to actually do large scale broadband construction projects that ultimately was extended by another year. But you did things like, line extensions, um, assistance to consumers for their costs of, of line extensions. You had a temporary broadband subsidy that you put into place. And you also, um, Appropriated money for recovery planning related to broadband projects. Um, then there was the consolidated appropriations act. And you also, um, There was a new federal program, uh, the broadband infrastructure program. And there was also the creation of a new federal subsidy, temporary subsidy, um, available to consumers for broadband services, the emergency broadband benefit. And I'm just highlighting that a little bit because, um, there's new federal funding funding to make this now a permanent program. So there will be a permanent broadband subsidy available to consumers. And we'll talk about that. Um, later on in the presentation. And then the big, biggest, um, pot of money for the state was through ARPA. You appropriated last year, 150,000 dollars. Um, in Vermont and that money went into the Vermont community broadband fund. To be distributed by the new board, the five member board that you created. Um, and that is for everything from pre-construction expenses to construction expenses and planning and facilitating. Primarily CUDs. And small, either working alone or in partnership with an ISP. And also the smaller, um, telecom providers in the state. So that work is underway. Um, Christine Hallquist is the executive director. Of the board. Um, and no doubt you'll be getting an update on where they are soon. I'm also just mentioning, uh, your familiar with the state. Under ARPA, the capital projects fund. That will result in about 113 million dollars coming to Vermont. Broadband is an eligible expense. Um, but obviously you're going to have lots of demands on that funding. But I just wanted to highlight it. Um, here. So are you now looking at the infrastructure investment and jobs act slide? Yeah. We are. So with respect to broadband, one of the findings, um, there are a number of findings in the act. Um, but probably. I think one of the most significant ones. I've quoted here. Access to affordable, reliable, high speed broadband. Is essential to full participation in modern life in the United States. And that provides. Kind of the foundation for all of the projects. That are then created and funded through this act. The total funding for broadband specifically. The $65 billion nationally. And again, that funding goes through three categories. Deployment. Digital equity. And affordability. And we're going to start, um, looking at the deployment funding strings first. So, um, For kind of fun financing funding streams for deployment. And we're going to look at each one of these as well. Um, In greater detail. But just to kind of, um, Again, provide context and make sure we're all familiar with the terms. Most of the money, about $40 billion. Of that $65 billion. Goes into a program designed to fund last mile infrastructure. By last mile. These are the connections that go right to the house to the end user. Right. That's in. Distinction. Um, To middle mile infrastructure. Which are kind of the main major transmission. Um, that connect towns, states, et cetera, But consumers don't hook up to middle mile. This is for the providers to connect their various networks. So there's funding. Most of it for last mile. Some funding for middle mile. And then in addition, there are appropriations to existing programs. And we'll talk about those. Those are programs through the rural utility service. In the. Oh, no, we've lost you. Looks like her whole system went down. Yeah. Hmm. And we were talking about the importance of broadband. And internet. Maria. Maria must be up here in the kingdom or something. I don't know. Last mile connection. Yeah. She said Washington village area, I think. I did notice, um, while we get her back on Washington, electric newsletter had talked about the bond, uh, how they would use the, um, low interest funding that's available to utilities. Work. So it's interesting. We passed legislation that would member permit that. And, um, I was, I don't know whether other utilities have, um, Proposals underway, but obviously Washington electric is, uh, right out there, uh, Uh, proposing to use that funding stream to get, um, To expand broadband access to their customers, which frankly they need to manage electrical consumption. You know, with, um, EVs or appliances or heating or whatever. So Maria, do we have you back? No. Yes, you do. Oh, okay. Well, we're back to broadband deployment slot. Slide. Sounds like you were doing a great job. Actually. Maybe you moved on. Were you at. So. So we would have to spend a lot of time on the slide because we're going to get to more of the details, but there is financing through bonds. There's some workforce development initiatives, not funding, but studies. And then there's some funding not included in that $65 billion, but specifically for electric grid modernization that might be able to use for broadband projects as well. So in terms of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the broad band projects for broadband projects as well. So in terms of the last mile infrastructure, the program that you'll hear the most about where that 42, approximately $42 billion is going into is called the be the program, the broadband equity access and deployment program. The, this is a program that's going to be administered. Well, the money is going to flow to the states. We'll apply for the funding and then can sub-grant the funds within their states, but the program, the parameters have been set by the Infrastructure Act, but it's going to be administered by the NTIA, which is part of the Department of Commerce. So that federal agency has six months to establish the program. Money is not yet available. The rules are being promulgated, worked on now. And once the details of the program have been created, then the NTIA will issue a notice of funding opportunity at which point the state can then apply. What we do know is based on a formula, Vermont will receive at least $100 million for a broadband. There will be some additional funds that will be distributed to states based on basically the number of unserved locations they have in high cost areas, more specifically. Maria, one of the concerns has been how, what were the federal standards for defining underserved and that would seem to be a very low bar. Did that get changed? So we are, we'll actually get to that and talk a little bit about, but basically you are considered unserved if you're below 25-3. So if you don't have broadband service at the meets or exceeds 25 megabits per second download and three megabits per second upload, you are considered unserved. So the money can also be used for underserved locations and that's a little bit higher threshold as you would expect and that is 120. And so we'll talk a little bit more about the program requirements with respect to those details. But the other thing I just wanted to note here in terms of identifying those locations, Vermont has really, has a great broadband map by 911 location with extremely helpful data. That has not been the case at the federal level with the federal maps. And so there's been a lot of funding and work done to update the federal broadband maps. However, that work is ongoing. And the latest I heard is that those maps, which are going to define the locations, all of this is necessary before the funds can go out the door, might not be available to 2023. So that's just something to kind of highlight to think about the timing of all of this. But that's a contingency that's out of the state's control. And then finally these funds are intended to supplement not supplant existing state and federal funding. So then, and this center kitchen was getting to kind of greater specificity. I think what you're looking at is, once the state receives the money. As I said it can competitively award sub grants. And the areas that it is going to be looking at are the unserved 25 three and the underserved. Funding is available to connect connect community anchor institutions. So these might be like hospitals health centers, schools libraries, and it would require bringing gigabit service symmetrical gigabit service to those entities. So funding can be used for that purpose as well. There's also funding available for data collection mapping planning, etc. There also can be funding for installations are produced cost broadband within multifamily residential buildings. So funding can be used for broadband adoption to help individuals acquire devices, laptops, tablets, etc. And any other use determined by the NTA. There's lots of additional priorities and requirements of the program. Obviously, first the unserved are considered a priority than the underserved, then the community anchor institutions, in terms of who would be eligible for sub grants. And the specific requirement that you'll see in that bullet to the list of entities that may not be excluded. So the funding needs to be open to cooperatives nonprofits private entities in addition to local governments. Obviously Vermont has spent a great deal of time serving high cost rural areas through their CDs. I mean here that the eligibility be broader, at least in terms of the federal law. And then in terms of additional priorities for broadband projects projects that serve counties that have persistent poverty or high poverty rates. The NTA will also be looking at speeds of a proposed service the faster the speed the greater weight that would carry the completion data that's construction completion like how long it would take to build the products. And then compliance with federal labor and employment laws. The matching requirement of 25% for these broadband projects except in high cost areas. But in terms of meeting that matching requirement, you can use in kind contributions. We also use prior federal funding for broadband. So to the extent you have other funding available. You can use that to meet the matching requirement. So would ARPA be a permissible. I believe so. It's just like we could use the CRF for matching. I believe so. I will confirm that but it's written pretty broadly but. All right. All right, because obviously matching, if we have a variety of different areas all requiring matching, could add up to. Yes, that's significant in total. So then in terms of what would be built with this funding, the service requirements. So the provider would have to provide or at least offer 120 service to each location in the service territory that wants it. This is a latency requirement. This is not bandwidth. This is the amount of time it takes for data to load to upload and download. And the federal law specifies that that latency must be sufficiently low to allow reasonably foreseeable real time interactive applications. Maria, you spent a lot of time next door in Senate finance and they've talked about the standards is 120. Is that consistent with what they have. I'm really glad you asked that question and this is this is really interesting and it'll be interesting to learn what kind of latitude the state has. So what you have been funding with ARPA is service that needs 100 100. Okay. All right, that's what I was thinking that that was. And right now that's really fiber. That's where your efforts have been going. So maybe a few exceptions. Trying to remember now if in the latest law, while you did have some exceptions but really you've been looking at funding 100 100 service. So the way that federal laws written you have to provide at least 120. That doesn't necessarily mean that the state can't. I don't think can't require a higher threshold, but that's not really clear yet. That's certainly something that the MTA will will be looking at and providing greater clarity. Thank you. Also, with this funding you have to offer the provider has to offer at least one low cost broadband service option that's not defined yet. And that is something that the state will define in consultation with working with the federal agency. And then finally, in terms of a timeframe of construction, it must be completed within four years of receiving the sub grant. The money that went out the $150 million of ARPA funds. I believe that all needs to be spent by the end of 2024. So, I'm not going to spend a lot of time here just in terms of the program, the process for applying for the grants. As well as some preparation that the state might be thinking about to get ready, not only to apply for the grants, but also make some decisions about how you want the money to be sub granted. The state will apply for a letter of intent will submit a letter of intent with the federal agency at that time it can also request planning funds to create a five year action plan. Subsequent to that it will file an initial proposal for how it plans to extend the funds and then a final proposal. There are many provisions in the federal act that talk very specifically about what the NTA is going to be looking at for these plans. What are the challenges and barriers to build out what kind of capacity does the state need and that can be in terms of staffing or workforce. I'm not sure if I'm going to combine obviously uncertain and unsure locations again for Madison is well positioned for that. And but ensuring that we know where all the community anchor institutions are. And then, you know, having the infrastructure the governmental infrastructure to oversee and coordinate the various efforts. So these are things that you know the state might be wanting you might want to think about in terms of being prepared to apply for and then expand the monies. One of the things that I think I'm struggling with is how what is required here, how it aligns with what we have because we spent quite a bit of time. And I think Senator Brock was talking about like a 10 year, and that was a broader plan I think it might have been a, you know, more inclusive plan and I think it was more like 300,000 or something. And so I'm just one year going through this I'm like how does this fit with what we already have sort of underway. And so, to me that's going to be a kind of a challenge because our memories get a while I maybe others are better than mine. So in terms of what did we find. What did we finally put in place. What did we, how did we fund it what were the parameters and how does it align with this new funding stream. So that's one comment that's floating through through my brain around alignment and or where we've got some disjuncture that we have to deal with. Yes, and I think some of that will depend on what the final rules are for the program attitude the state has so if you can simply supplement what you've already set up. Right, then you can just continue to fund those projects that otherwise might not have been funded. But what complicates this even a little bit more is, in addition to the funding that you've allocated through ARPA, and this new funding that's going to go through the state to sub grant. There are other federal programs, such as RDOF, and the reconnect program that are also funding answer. So there is a real challenge in the area there about 50 federal broadband programs, I think. But the big ones are RDOF, the role digital opportunity fund. And now the reconnect program which Vermont is now eligible for trying to coordinate all of those programs and who was being funded and at what thresholds I think is a challenge. And so it's good to highlight that and it's certainly something I'm going to be looking at that I'm sure the board and the department are also, you know, trying to identify locations that don't have a funded solution from any source. In terms of middle mile. It's sort of a bit like Minoan architecture, you know, we add a program, sort of, over time and it becomes very challenging to figure out to get from one place to another or how it all connects so Yes. Well, the board, I would think is well positioned as well as the department to help us with that, because it seems to me that's really essential. And the same thing, we're experiencing the same same thing with housing and you know money coming in and who's the population eligible and what are their parameters and etc. So it is, it really does take some time to, well, first of all, understand each of the funding sources, the rules, etc. to look at it in total. Absolutely. And I know I think it was in November the department gave a presentation before the Vermont Community Broadband Board where they presented maps and updated statistics where they're looking at just this issue that included the our funding areas and everything so I, it is absolutely something that's being looked at and trying to have better coordination information to help you make your decisions going forward. In terms of middle mile infrastructure, there's about $1 billion of infrastructure act money available and this is a competitive grant program that's going to be administered at the through the NTIA so it's this is money that does not come through the state as an applicant but providers can submit applications. And the purposes for which this money will be available is for middle mile that will help to reduce the cost of connecting unserved and underserved areas to the internet backbone. And also to promote resiliency so if you can if you have the middle mile infrastructure you continue to build that out into more and more areas in Vermont, it will make it less costly to then reach the last mile. And if you have multiple fiber routes available, then you have greater resiliency to the extent you have alternative network paths in the event that one line goes down. So those are kind of the purposes of that funding. I won't go over this and too much detail, but this is money available to Vermont providers, and that they have five years, basically to complete that construction so again needs to coordinate with other state efforts. So in terms of other programs that not new programs although there are some amendments, but programs that received funding under the infrastructure act. There are two us da programs available through their rural utility service, the entity and TIA in the Department of Commerce, and the R us in the Department of Agriculture are the two primary funding sources in this act, the FCC. Also has authority to give money out for broadband deployment so there are. It's a little bit confusing with more than one federal entity with the same mission to bring broadband to unserved areas. So in this event, the reconnect program is a program that's been around for a number of years, and so additional money has gone to this program, there are some new funding requirements, I think the one thing that I just wanted to note about the program is in the past. Vermont has been challenged a lot of entities could not apply for the funding, and that is because they did not provide grants to areas that already were served by a prior r us grant or alone, more specifically alone. So all that detail in 2010 got an award to build out a wireless service, almost statewide. And so any other entity that wanted to apply for reconnect grants was unable to do so, because it was presumed that that service veto had a loan to serve, basically the rest of the state so that prohibition or limitation has been removed that actually was removed in the Consolidated Appropriations Act but that's, that's been a hurdle and so that will no longer be a hurdle for Vermont entities that want to apply for grants and loans through this program. So, in terms of private activity bonds, just another means of financing broadband broadband build out in Vermont, the internal rebel revenue code is amended and now broadband isn't allowable use for qualified private activity bonds. Beginning in 2022 state and local governments can issue qualified private activity bonds to finance qualified broadband projects in rural areas. And in terms of the definition of what a qualified broadband project is for purposes of this financing. It means a census block group or groups in which 50% of households lack 25 three service, and the project will result in all locations in that group, having access to 120 service. In terms of the act, this is not really funding that's available for the state, but just wanted to note that the federal government obviously recognizes what you recognized in Vermont and that is there's workforce shortage and the telecommunications sector. Obviously with all of the money that's available for broadband build out. There are supply chain issues and there are also workforce issues, all the states at the same time trying to build out broadband in a fairly short amount of time. So this is just to highlight some of the reports that will be available to you. That might might ease some of those limitations. This is all federal at the federal level. You know I was. The reason I'm asking is at a recent meeting at our one of our career tech centers. The local one of the people is on the board of the Northeast Kingdom. The UD said we need workforce and can you put together a program and and because obviously they've got students and what they were talking about is to set up programs you have to have money you have to have you have to spend money on equipment and you know what and other costs associated with setting up a new program. And I was just wondering, is there any within this any available funding to support the, the creation of these training programs within say our career technical education system. That's a great question. I'd have to look more closely to see, you know, the workforce provisions here don't have appropriations with them for the state, but the bead program for last mile is pretty broad in terms of what the money can be used for. So I will look to see if workforce development is something that the state can fund. And then there may be other sources to education. You know there may be other funding sources that could get at the same issue. And it's just something obviously this would be a great career path for a lot of the students that might be in tech add. And it's obviously a one of the areas that we've got a workforce shortage so I was, I was just thinking about that conversation the request that came in from a board member of our CUD to the career centers saying couldn't you set up one of these programs. And, and what, but then you have to be realistic what does it take to do that. And you did. Last session, you had some funding for a pilot program through the Vermont Technical College. So we can, I can, you know, get an update on where things things in there and you also appropriated some money to the Department of Labor to look more at the telecom workforce issues and what funding opportunities might what the needs are and what funding might be available so. Well, this was, this was taking a request that came from the CUD to a local CTE saying it seems like this would be a logical connection to make and. And, you know, I know that we've got language all over the place around workforce shortage whether we're talking about healthcare careers whether we're talking about weatherization whether we're talking about, you know, broadband etc. But we've got to think about how we grow that capacity and give the, the training that in this case students but they could be adults as well these CTE serve adults as well as as something that would be another potential way of training the workforce. You mentioned VTC but this would be right, you know at at at the CTE's as well. Yep. Okay. So then. So again, let me back up a little bit so there is funny not this is not part of the $65 billion specifically for broadband. Funding though, for a number of energy as you know climate change projects but specifically for electric grid modernization $3 billion for the smart grid investment matching grant program. So this is a program that was created in 2007 Vermont utilities as part of the era funding received a significant amount of money through this smart grid investment matching grant program. And much of that funding I believe was used to fund the purchase and installation of smart meters for example. So, some of this funding of the $3 billion nationally that might be available to electric companies may be used to enhance their communications infrastructure as they seek to better develop their grid management systems, etc. So I wanted to at least highlight that something that may be another source that will impact. Let me let me ask another connecting point. There was a presentation from the Vermont public power supply authority and which they identified projects and what the projected costs would be and and some of them are advancing the infrastructure for smart meters customer portals, etc. And then they wanted to get, but the big chunk was advanced metering infrastructure for protected, projected costs for their memberships which are the small, more municipal like Johnson like Lindenville or leans, etc. And that was a $12 million price tag and I did send that request out to the committee. Is this is this. I'm just trying to connect that request with this potential funding source. Absolutely this could be a potential source of funding that they might want to apply for they would apply directly to the federal program. But I do have the link there you'll see in blue. And that is describes what are eligible costs so I would be happy to share that information with the authority, and also look more closely and see if it is something that they're considering. Okay, if you would be willing to do that I mean, I, you must know the right person to connect with. Senator star center Westman you remember the, the names of the person who organized our meeting. I'll find out, I'll find out. Okay. All right, all right. No problem. It's just more more. It's just, it's not on the sheet and I can't. And I can't remember, I'm sorry. But anyway, it just seems like they've made a request and I'm trying to connect it with this and it might be a potential funding stream so if you're willing to do that that would be great. I'd be happy to do that. Okay. So now moving on to digital equity, the digital equity act, as it's called as part of the infrastructure act. And this funds things like digital equity inclusion and literacy. So making sure that all populations are have access to it and technologies that are affordable and they have the skills to use them, basically, and the programs which I'm going to talk about on the next slide the specific programs. The specific covered populations, and you can see those listed here, and I won't read through all of them just in the interest of time. But in terms, then, of the specific programs to promote equity inclusion and skills. These are, these are basically three sequence programs. So first, there's the state digital equity planning grant program. This is money available specifically to the states the governor is going to select the administering entity, and they're going to receive funds to develop plans to how to make sure everyone is included with access to and use of the internet. And then there's the state digital equity capacity grant program is basically for implementation of those plans. And I believe Vermont will receive approximately $7.5 million for that for the implementation of the digital equity plan. The third program, the digital equity competitive grant program is a program that's open to any entity that has an equity project. So that can be a municipality and ISP nonprofits, schools, etc. So these are funding streams that are available specifically for digital equity purposes. Maria to go back. Maria, the person that we were coordinated the meeting with area legislators here was Melissa Bailey. Oh, okay, great. I know Melissa happy to give her a call. Okay. All right, thank you. So the final kind of big funding stream related to broadband relates to affordability. There is $14.2 billion available for what is basically a new program permanent program called the affordable connectivity program. You'll remember on that first slide. I had mentioned that there was a temporary emergency broadband benefit created with pandemic funding. That is going to be transitioned into this new permanent program and that is taking place right now. The final rules will be issued this month. So this will provide a subsidy to consumers to go towards their broadband subscriptions up to $30 a month. So reduced from the current emergency benefit of $50 a month. There's money that can go towards the purchase of a connected device. The income eligibility has been increased. There's just I've included some other information that may be helpful, kind of just alerting folks to what what funding sources are available to them. When you say current lifeline you're talking about telephone lifeline. I am talking about the telephone lifeline which was modernized to not be just voice, but also include broadband. And there's the federal lifeline program which is modernized, which does include broadband so you can use the lifeline which I think is about $9.25 a month towards voice service or towards broadband subscription. But there is also the Vermont lifeline program. And that is specifically her voice. There was a goal at the federal level to phase out the federal voice subsidy. And so Vermont wanted to make sure there was still a voice subsidy available so they were very clear. I think it was in 2016 when all of this kind of modernization of the lifeline program was taking place that there would still be a voice benefit available in the state and I think it's like $4, $4 plus dollars. So federal and state lifeline programs. You did create a broadband temporary broadband lifeline program with Sierra funds. I don't know what the status is of that funding, which has believed since ended with the deadline. But that might be helpful to learn a little bit more about what the uptake was and what the need was there and then who will avail themselves of the new permanent grant of, you know, like I said up to $30 a month. And I just included some of the FCC. It's the Federal Communications Commission that is administering this subsidy and I included some of the orders there that talk mostly about the transitioning from one program to another. It's not really related to broadband funding. There are some other provisions that I just think are interesting to be aware of in the Infrastructure Act related to consumer protection generally. The FCC will be adopting rules regarding a consumer broadband label. So this would be information about a broadband service, what the speeds are, what the price is, making sure that consumers understand what they're signing up for. What is your rates, you know what the final rate will be. What is the minimum level service that they're going to actually receive, not just the advertised service. This is something that the FCC is now working on. In addition, obviously, speed broadband speeds is significant in terms of how we define what the need is. What the thresholds and who is eligible for funding. So what those thresholds should be. So there's, and there's been a lot of debate. So obviously, Vermont, you've defined a threshold of 100-100. And now the FCC, although the programs fund more than what their current speed, which is 25-3, it's still less than, for the most part, what you define as the necessary threshold or what you want to invest your public dollars in. But in any event, there is a report that's looking at what the speeds should be. And that report is due in a year. And also looking at what's called digital redlining. Basically, if providers in some way do not build out to areas based on income, race, ethnicity, or don't offer their services, this is another topic that has gained some concern and interest. So that's something that will be looked at over the next two years by the FCC. And then also the Federal Universal Service Fund. You know, you have a Vermont Universal Service Fund, right? That's that surcharge of 2.4% on your telecom bill, retail telecom bill. And also a federal surcharge on interstate bills, communications, and that has been a source for years of debate about right now it's just on telecommunications, not broadband service. And so there's been a big discussion about whether it should be expanded and what should the money go for, you know, whether any of those existing programs that it funds should be changed. Anyway, this is just, I wanted it to be on your radar that this is something that is also being looked at more closely. And then in terms of just final thoughts that I had kind of wrapping all of this up, I wanted to remind you of something you said last year in the big bill. So that between ARPA funds and other federal and state funds, the General Assembly anticipates spending $250 million for broadband development over the next three years. You have a state statutory goal of delivering 100 symmetrical service to all locations in Vermont by the end of 2024. And in terms of some kind of relevant data that's in the most recent Vermont 10-year telecom plan, which was published this summer, approximately 51,000 locations in Vermont lack 25-3 service. So they're considered unserved. And in the plan, and you can hear more from the department about this because I know there's a lot of variables with the cost estimate, but in the plan I believe it specifies that it would cost between $362 million and $439 million to bring those 51,000 locations up to 100 symmetrical service. There are 185,000 locations that have less than 100 symmetrical service, but more than that. Is that additive or is the 51,000 part of the 185? I believe it is additive. So these are people that have above the 25-3. So it would not include the 50. So it's not additive. It would not. No, wouldn't be. Okay. Those who don't have it and those who have a little. Right. And so that is all that I have for you today. Can you tell us how many locations there are in Vermont? So I'd like to judge what percentage don't even have 25 or under and what percentage have between 25 and 100. And actually, 600,000 people, but I don't know how many locations. It is definitely in the plan. I'm just looking. I want to make sure. We can also in our broadband issue brief, we can, we can send that around to the community. Yeah, that would be helpful. Yeah, it'd be helpful if we could get just where are we. So are you telling us that I'm sorry I should have raised my hand. Let's go right ahead. Sarah Sears is what you're saying is that it's going to cost 365 million. We've only allocated about 265. So we haven't even allocated enough money to do the job. So here's the thing, and this is why I might check in with the department. So I think there may be some assumptions that might be the total cost, but that might not be factoring in if the providers also invest. So you might not need to fund the whole amount you might need to provide enough of an incentive to make it financially viable for providers to contribute and build out. But I'm, you know, I'm not so well versed exactly how they arrived at those figures. So I don't want to. And that may, so what you're saying is that would be the amount of the state picked up the total tab but if the CUDs are doing financing through their utilities. And so there are multiple funding strategies to get to that total financing needed. The broadband board would be the best entity to give us that complete picture to follow up on what Senator Sears is asking. It's definitely the broadband board and the department of public service and I know they've been working very closely developing these numbers so. Okay. We, we knew that the 250 wasn't going to totally do it but we wanted to set forth a framework of allocation. And at that point we didn't know what additional federal funds would be available so the. So, that's probably something that we can take a look at. All right. Any other questions of Maria. Senator Westman did you have one. No, I, I was interested in how do I create a picture. Okay. And so Stephanie said she'll send out the issue brief. And so I think we'll get a number of issue briefs for, for the legislators because it's really hard to keep all the different funding streams straight and sort of a baseline so we're getting them on. There'll be one for housing this one for broadband. There is. Oh, I think a total of five wasn't Stephanie. Yes, there are five of them housing broadband water, economic development and climate. Okay. Other questions of Maria. This is hard to imagine this is our first day back and we're already rattling these numbers around. Alice you all set. Okay. Bobby, you all. Yeah. I just want to pick up on the meeting that we had, because I believe you attended that one with the public utilities. Yeah. And I think, and I think they had one in the Morrisville area. They did have one in the Morrisville area. One with Orleans and those guys. Yeah. And then you had one down in LaMoyle County. Yeah. In our area also. You did. Okay. I just wanted to make a quick connection with Melissa just to see if there's some opportunities there. Since it was, you know, they wanted to brief legislators in the areas that have those. Mostly a municipal utilities. I mean, it was hard work. It was all the money. Yeah. Yeah. That was their organization. Which, which we created in statute. Yeah. I don't know when that was done, but yes, Alice. There was a web address that Maria that you had in your. On that slide that had the number on it with regard to this, this issue of the grants, which was there briefly, but then disappeared. I don't know if that's. I'm sorry, which for which one for one where we were asking about the grants for the municipals that Jane had asked about. Oh, well, if, if Maria is going to give that directly to Melissa, then she's taking care of it for us. But it's so it's title 42 of the United States code. And it's section 17386. There are actually flashed a web address there as well, not wasn't on the slide, but it showed up a little bit later underneath it. Okay, I'm not sure. But there wasn't time. Well, anyway, if you send it to, to Melissa Bailey. Okay. Great. Any other comments or questions. Okay. Then it's a little after three. And I'm going to suggest then we wrap it up for today and go offline. Chrissy, if you would please we've finished her.