 Good afternoon. It's Kaui Lukas today at a different time if you are looking for depth Ted We did a little swap today, so you can catch him on the YouTube reruns Today, it's Kaui Lukas with Hawaii is my mainland here on think-tech Hawaii. I Have two guests today freshly flown in from Hawaii Island the Hamakua and Kona side First up we have Craig Elevich who I last saw at Bishop Museum talking about Oulu breadfruit and just Amazing ways, and I heard he was coming to the island for the breadfruit summit actually and he says you know I bring I'm bringing this guy Kalani, Suza. I'm gonna bring him along with me and Yes, please bring Kalani Suza with you So Kalani is a native Hawaiian practitioner, and he's a FEMA trainer, and he is just a phenomenal human being So thank you gentlemen for Stopping by the think-tech studio on your way out to Laie this weekend. Thanks so much for having us We love think-tech On the mailing list well as I've built this show agroforestry is The way to help us Really become more resilient at home, right? Absolutely. Absolutely when the first Europeans came to Hawaii they observed some of the most abundant and well-kept agricultural systems in the world And those were agroforestry systems very diverse very productive Sustainable and guess what carbon neutral hey So there was no no need to burn fossil fuel to produce all the food That was produced here, which was a huge amount a huge amount enough to Supply a visiting sailors for months at a time rather generously evidently right well much to our dismay It's calculated. Yes that the breadfruit groves which were Quite prominent parts of the landscape in Hawaii very productive these breadfruit groves That that just one of them in Kona, which is about nine square miles called the Kalaulu produced 40 to 80 million pounds of breadfruit per day per per year Okay, 40 to 80 million pounds per year you can compare that to the amount of potato We import to Hawaii per year now, which is about that amount that was out one for us One one for us on one island, right? Yeah Wow, so you guys are here and you're gonna be talking about that all weekend long at this breadfruit summit, right? And if anybody's interested they can go online and check it out them just Google Global breadfruit summit 2016 what makes it exciting really exciting this time is I mean normally whenever you see these Agricultural developments or a new rollout. It's almost always driven at the economic level, you know I'm kind of quoting W. You know and and and his pops, right? It's the economy stupid, right? That's an idea. However this time it's a collection of of Practitioners deeply rooted in their communities and they're coming from all over the Pacific from Tahiti from Fiji from Tonga Micronesia And of course all of us from the islands here and we're meeting there and the conversations being led by community sort of in this real Organic natural way. It feels good. It looks good I hope to be up there for part of it, but since we have you here I'll alter myself For a few minutes Let's let's get into what can we do here in Hawaii about food security? And how can we approach our our home gardens and as well as our our businesses in in agroforestry? You sent me some excellent pictures to kind of get it a Picture of what is agroforestry? So our background here is beautiful of a puheat and You colibus right and talk about the different functions Yeah, so so in nature Plants facilitate each other. We kind of I was raised to think that plants compete with each other for water and nutrients Light and so forth, but in nature plants facilitate each other actually and they they actually feed each other and communicate with each other And in the case of this very simple agroforestry system the avapuhi and eucalyptus the the avapuhi is Providing a cover on the ground. It's holding soil together It's building soil through organic matter and the eucalyptus is coming up and it's a long term This is a timber eucalyptus in this photo Okay, and let's look at maybe this the I call it the breakfast forest the one that's got citrus Coffee and mango Yeah So here's a mature agro forest from the Pacific somewhere is this in Hawaii actually this is in Kona I I sent this because I Came to Hulu Aloha in Kona in 1988 This is what inspired me to work on agroforestry all the old family farms there Coffee farms are integrated with lots of food and one of the things when you go to Kona There's always too much food around too much citrus people share it with each other banana Avocado mango that's kind of oranges The abundance is so that the numbers on the screen here that are the idea in the different kinds of trees Yes, so number one is number one is Citrus number two is the coffee which is an understory shade tolerant and number three is the mango yum okay, so One of the things that is a struggle for a lot of people in agriculture is this Idea of weed what do we do about the weeds? How do we keep those nasty grasses down? Well agroforestry has an answer to that right right round cover And I think what makes it exciting is you know, it's scalable when you look at those first two photos I think some people get the idea that agroforestry they start thinking acres and acres But we designed a 10 by 23 foot plot on an R1 Residential home that can feed a family of four for four days in an emergency like say a category for Hurricane here, and I'd love to see Projects in education systems that sort of picked this up this idea that homes on Oahu in particular where the risk is that homes have developed their own capacity to have food in their yard for three or four days in the event of a Katrina or up, you know like we had with Eva Yeah, when it hit Oahu, so that's not a lot of space really no 10 by 23 The where we're sitting here on this table, you know, it's like a this table loan is a five by eight space So you can imagine it's not much larger than this feed a family of four So what would you plant in your theory? Well my theoretical garden, which we videotaped and and recorded over the last three years as we extract I have shizo, ava, banana, Chaya three kinds of potato three kinds of spinach How Olena ginger green beans the Chaya I have shizo leaves that that are different green and red back to front I'm also growing papaya. I got three different kinds of papaya going. I got green beans I of course the green onions the white onions, you know celery. I had peppers But the birds got to her And this has been going on for three years and when I started on this particular plot Which is right next to the kitchen window the soil was so Degradated the person I bought the house from had had two dogs staked on the property for eight years So it was just red dirt and fleas. I mean I'd arrest this guy for what he did to those animals But got the house cleaned up the art. We did the entire soil regeneration naturally with no inputs at all simply letting the plants Come into working order with each other and right now the Regan all the other stuff there is standing about 24 inches high and the ground cover is complete. There's no grass. No weeds no glass. No weeds have that back to that Groundcover you had a great picture of one that was oh the perennial peanut, right? Yeah, there's that's an interesting one It's a great ground cover. It fixes nitrogen. It keeps the weeds up. The idea is open bare soil Nature wants to fill so it will it will and so what we do is we use ground covers or whatever actually is there Already that might you might consider to be a weed, but it's very innocuous very harmless. So But in this photo the the perennial peanut is a wonderful ground cover many times those are actually Beneficial and somehow we've been a culture rise to go out there every Saturday and remove them and then and then put lots of chemical fertilizers to make the grass to make the grass grow and it's it's quite interesting but These agro forests aren't exclusive to plants, right? There's there's you talked about silver Pasturing and adding adding animals into the mixture of agro forestry And that's easier to do probably on Hawaii Island in Oahu, but but let's talk about it. And there's a gorgeous Pastoral view of of what life could be like, right? well, it's wonderful to integrate animals with trees the animals actually keep the ground cover maintained in mode and Most animals do better under some forest cover cattle do better under 50% shade for example Yeah, and we putting cattle out in an open field is tantamount to abuse. It is and and by putting them in in a pasture that has trees whether they're chamber trees or fruit trees an open an open canopy You get the benefits of the trees the yields of the trees You have healthier livestock and you actually do not reduce the number of animals that you can that you can Support on the on an area of land Okay, so the the benefits to the animals are pretty obvious But to the farmer Sometimes there's this thing called the the USDA that comes in and says if you've got animals Then you're not on our organic operation and we we won't sell your Your produce there is a there are some issues with food safety. Is that what you're yes? Yeah? Yeah, that's really do you know where that is at this point in in Political America. Well, I think states I should say sorry to you South Americans. I Thank you for that The food safety issue has to do with picking up anything from the ground and having animals around So I I think that that issue is still I think all of those issues Between food safety and food security are still being discussed but particularly by the NDPC the national Disaster preparedness centers, you know these consortiums. There's seven consortium's paid for by FEMA They actually address different aspects of readiness in the nation So that an ongoing discussion that discussion was centered in baton rouge at LSU where the center for food Safety and food security is being operated. But as we know they're experiencing some real Challenges this last week the floods in baton rouge Everything's happening in Louisiana. I think there's some hurricanes headed there So if there was ever a moment for them to learn some lessons about food security or readiness on the ground I'm afraid my colleagues and friends of their having the real-life experience in the moment So the discussion that immediately follows this week's events should be very interesting indeed around whether food should be Available that being said I want to comment that 2017 is the hundred-year anniversary of The United States legislation around victory gardens Once in America it was legislated it was mandated into law that all houses should have a garden It was a victory garden for the security and safety of the nation Listen if our defense spending is going up to 53% and we're throwing a giant chunk after national security and Domestic preparedness then why aren't we having federal programs that are in fact supporting the idea of readiness in terms of Victory gardens for our citizens. It was mandated by law. I Think that is a very good question Think about something Generated either this weekend at your conference or maybe at the IUCN or I'm not sure if that's a conservation measure but it's definitely a food security measure and Maybe that's a way to get some of the defense dollars going to a more positive Part of our economy well, I know we probably got a break coming up real quick And if that's gonna be the case, maybe we come back I can nudge my pal here to tell you about his dream of peace gardens, which I thought was phenomenal perfect Kalani Let's do that Looking to energize your Friday afternoon tune in to stand the energy man at 12 noon Aloha Friday here on Big Tech Hoy Hi, my name is Justini spirit to this is my co-host Matthew Johnson every Thursday at 4 p.m We host the Hawaii food and farmers series. This is the place you can come to for insight on the perspective and history and passions of Hawaii's farmers and all folks involved in Hawaii's local food system What kind of folks we have on so we have everyone from local farmers We have foodies chefs. We also have journalists Researchers anyone who's actually working to help make Hawaii's local food system that much better so join us every Thursday and Tweet in the us and ask us some questions and leave your comments as well Welcome back to Hawaii is my mainland. I'm Kaui Lucas and with me here today is Kalani Silva Suza And Craig Elevage from Hawaii Island, they are here for the global breadfruit summit and both of them are Extremely busy and do amazing things all across the globe in the realm of food sovereignty and And and disaster management. Also, it's it's a very interesting mix that you've got yours yourself Active in and Craig you sent me this Excellent infographic that shows why you guys are so passionate about agro forestry We're comparing monocropping with an agro forestry Right production so the concepts behind agro forestry resonate with a lot of people but people don't change unless they see Benefits that outweigh what they've been doing before so monocultures if you look in the well in this case the annual crop graph on the left They have a certain yield over time agro forests have a Higher total yield if you look at all the different crops growing in the system So they're short-term crops that produce a lot of food during their first six months to five years of their lives and then we have medium-term crops that produce the bulk of their food Between let's say three years and ten years and then we have the very long-term crops So that would be something like the short term would be pineapples papayas those kinds of things short term is pineapples Oh Two years Craig don't call that short Well, if you do it right and you plant retunes you can get your first crop within 18 months Okay, well, we'll see but I have mine is this big now, okay, okay lots of mulch lots of mulch, okay? I got lots of mulch, and I've got three gorgeous suckers on it. So, okay It's that love and fear with the pineapple Just like him for the cocktails So quality we have a picture of of you and a one month old a baby agro forestry plot Of that you put together somewhere. Oh, yes. Yes. This is in Poilo another one down south You should see this plot now two years later. It's a you literally walk under it and are completely lost Within the first year went down this agro forest right here that we're in this small plot This entire plot was planted in one night on the Hoku wound after sunset Till midnight is the tradition a tower in inlass in the traditional way And it's quite amazing in the food that's come out of this is fed about three or four households Consistently for the last few years now Wow that And literally put in with just three individuals And what you see there is a whole variety of different food plants planted Together all at the same time those ground covers their shrubs and trees. So there's the sweet potato There's tea leaf as you can see those chili peppers the kalo that he mentioned and that's only a month old Yeah, look at all of that. Yeah Yeah, and it's been it's been feeding consistently for three years. It feeds itself or two years. Yeah, right the inputs inputs like the rain when the rain comes And you planted it in one night, but you had some help three other individuals, okay? So just four of us in one night planted it Amazing and didn't it wasn't like a lot of work. We had some cocktails, you know Somebody made dinner and we had us a good time from sunset at about five to about midnight that night when it's nice and cool Yeah, yeah, that's when the wines would have been planting and then you don't have to worry about slathering yourself Exactly exactly isn't an interesting, you know There's actually a portion of the day around two one thirty two o'clock in the afternoon to about four thirty That's called. Oh, you know law. Oh me. I II here a lot in the day me out in the day So it actually tells you you don't go walking outside till like two o'clock in the afternoon It's actually where the wines call that time of day, right? It's which is interesting, right? But so when we see people toiling away at like eleven thirty, it's like pal What are you doing out of the Sun should have given that up at eight o'clock in the morning? Go to the beach relax That sounds like a much more balanced Lifestyle turns out that the metrics of profit extend way beyond monetization Yes, but we have to get somebody who knows how to do that kind of thinking to put it on paper So it gets included. That's that's why I love Craig Elevage I agree with you when I heard him do his first talk to I was like this guy is actually encapsulating in theory in a way that others can hear some of these deeply held values that indigenous people have had and He surprised me read I was looking at him like really and low park at your You know Palo Alto really how'd you do that? People made up to Palo Alto. I was like, how'd you do that pal more trees? I guess then down in LA So Craig you have been on Hawaii Island for a long time since 88 I came to Holualoa and Conan 88. Yeah, so I didn't know you when I was living in Holualoa. I was living on an old Macnut farm Yeah, feeding the pigs Yeah but So there was a project that you did there that I wanted a gleaning project a community gathering project I want you to talk about that a little right So one of the things about working with Ulu breadfruit is that it's becoming a commercial crop It's kind of becoming a hot commercial crop But we wanted to make sure that the people who were most deeply connected to the Ulu local people Hawaiians Pacific Pacific Islanders Had access to it and there's a lot of breadfruit that goes to waste during the peak seasons There's these as you know Peaks of production where we actually can't consume all that we produce. There's a lot of fruit We maybe consume 15% right maybe 15% so the project is it's still ongoing is to harvest some of that excess fruit during the peak seasons and we We didn't put it into commercial channels, but we wanted to make sure that people who really appreciate it Got access to it. We had one person call us up and say my family doesn't feel right going to bed Without having the taste of breadfruit that day. So we have been thousands of pounds. We've harvested as volunteers And just donated to different local groups church groups Community groups who that's what I mean these metrics that you can't see otherwise, right? That are benefiting society greatly and all of us really in that aspect And then when we start talking and I really do not like this this terminology and I think with IUCN We're gonna be hearing something like these You know refugees climate refugees They're migrants They're migrants and they should be migrants with dignity Migration is a natural phenomenon on the planet during the cycles of climate all life forms migrate The humans are about to stop migrating to the coast and to begin migrating into rural areas and from some Extreme conditions humans will be migrating to other countries this idea of agroforestry It's a way of getting a Really skilled set of people from Micronesia who are gonna find themselves having to relocate This is an industry they could excel in We don't have to pay them 725 to be at co-op parking lot attendants And we don't have to train people for 15 years to learn that skill We have an influx and influx of people coming in who are extremely skilled at this particular kind of activity Why don't we match our economic industrial development to our marketplace to our talent right to the people that are coming in we could do this Well, let's let's just work on that I think that's a goal we can work on now in our last three minutes gentlemen Why don't I would just like to hear from you what you are most excited about in agroforestry these days I would say the agroforestry home gardens like we saw the the one month example up there Are you gonna show the one year photo? Maybe some some time But but the agroforestry home gardens where people can directly Relate to their food and create abundance and also learn about growing food Without actually spending any more time and money than on their ornamental landscapes So that's what that's what that significantly less. I was gonna say significant It could be That's what that's what excites me and that's what children children around growing food changes their entire relationship with the natural world So we we have an aging Farmer population Well, this the the agroforestry home garden can actually reverse that trend like By training people like honestly saying from birth And you are director of agroforestry net and there is a lot of Information on that website agroforestry net and he's also going to be the new director of the global bread food heritage council Which is really made up of like 1516 indigenous leaders from all over the Caribbean from Indian Ocean from Myanmar from all over the Pacific Several people on the technical advisory team. I mean Credit just does wonderful work. You know, he's a stand-up guy. It's a pleasure working with you All right, Colani in our last 30 seconds or so. What's your great? What are you most excited about? I think giving communities the ability to control their own food water energy needs the hierarchy of needs health and education What could be more exciting than that they're putting economic development back into the hands of the women and children in community That's where we need to go. We want to break up these big monopolies and power women in their communities Oh, how beautiful is that for a vision? Thank you both for stopping by The breakfast stomach out in la ie. Thank you