 Welcome to Kwok Talk, I'm Crystal here. I love talking about the body. You know why? Because there's just so many aspects of it. There are many many essential aspects of it that we don't really think about how they kind of work together. And when it comes to dance and choreography, how do we use different types of bodies to create a piece that encompasses so much that a choreographer wants to say? Well today we have a wonderful choreographer and the assistant director to talk about this amazing upcoming production at UH Manoa. So with no further ado, let me introduce a two wonderful guests. I've got to my left. Kaila Simpson. Yes, assistant director of the technical body. Assistant director. Yes. Okay, excellent. You're also an MFA student. I'm a MFA directing candidate in the theater department at UH Manoa. Okay, welcome Kaila. Thank you. And Peilengau, who is the director, choreographer and associate professor of the UH Dance Department. Well, soon to be, I hope. Oh no, congratulations, you are the director. Congratulations on your upcoming piece. Thank you. Do you want to start by talking a little bit about what integral bodies is all about? Yeah, let's first look at the words, the definition. Okay. Definition of integral. Integration means the essential and the essential parts that to make it full, to make it whole. And I think to make a show like this, we cannot avoid or to single out one or to only address single part of the body type or style. So normally when we are doing a dance production with like dancers, highly technical dancers, and then we oftentimes have the assumption about what dancers' body look like. But rather in this production, I, before the audition, I sort of gave myself a little goal of, I would like to include all kinds of bodies, different genders, different sizes, different age, different able, disabled bodies to be included in this production. Why? Yeah, just like I said, without them, it can, without all these people together, it cannot make a whole as an integration of the production. But do you think like in our contemporary times in the dance world or in just our body conceptions, people are always trying to push the envelope saying that there are different sizes that are all part of the beauty concept, you know, breaking the mold of this perfect body. You know, there's been a strong kind of representation of that or you're going to push this farther. Yeah, I mean, first I would love to ask you what do you mean by perfect body? Yeah, well, this is the problem with social media is that people or especially the younger generation have this concept of it. And then it comes with the aspect of the cultural identity too, right? You know, we're talking like what are the norms? What does the Asian eyes look like? Exactly. You know, there's so many aspects. And so how do we incorporate all the racial elements, the gender elements and still breaking boundaries, but containing something you want to say as a whole? There's so many things to talk about. Especially when you consider the pressure to be the outside pressure. Yeah, exactly. There are so many things. And I, right now I still feel like, wow, there are still so many things I can bring into the piece and the process. But the show is coming, so I better wrap it up. Coming as in this Friday, right? Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the process. Youla, you're assistant director. Can you define that role a little bit and how you collaborate? I guess traditionally, and very so in this case, you know, my role is to help execute Haley's vision or your director's vision. There's a lot to do, right? In conceptualizing something and a lot of not many hours in a day. So I can leave my way in to where what the little detail sections while she holds on to the bigger picture. That's what, you know, traditionally an assistant director, especially where I come from the western theater side, it's different in a little case in that most of us that pursue this track are, you know, we focus just on what we're used to, the plays that you've probably already heard a thousand times and so forth. So for me to be jumping over to the dance side would be a little bit off that track. You've never worked with a dance piece in a theatrical kind of setup before? Never. Interesting. So can we break that down a little bit? Like how do you take a piece, you said a little detailed piece of your whole idea and how do you translate or help you conceptualize that in the form of theater? Yeah, before we go into that, I really want to say that the goal of this production is also not separating theater and dance. Ah, okay. So as you know, we share Kennedy Theater and then we are one department and often time you see, you go to see theater shows, there are movement involved. They are dance element, dance material in it, but it's naturally together. So why not the dance piece have some theatrical element? Okay. Yeah, so I think we have been, I mean, I know Keola since last fall. Yeah. And then I sort of, I've seen his work and then I feel like maybe I could use or utilize his expertise in theater and maybe can highlight my work. And especially I'm setting this piece as a dance theater piece. It's not like a traditional dance shows you are seeing. Is there a script? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. It becomes a script. Yeah. It becomes a script. What do you mean by that? There's a, I'm not paling in the fall and right away I noticed I was like, I think we think the same. We just, it might be in a different language and I'm not quite sure how she gets to where she's going, which pulls me over to that side. And the way, I think we may have even had this conversation in passing once is the way we start something. And a lot of emphasis a lot of times comes on story first. And then how do you execute the story? And I couldn't help but notice paling is able to put the story, not necessarily up front, and we'll work toward what the story is that we are telling. We'll figure out how we get there. We've gotten to the point now. Now we know what we're trying. Yeah, I think that is the method, the methodology of choreography and also device theater is like you set a structure and a concept and then you need to be open enough to allow the different things to happen. And then maybe at the end that your end product is slightly different than your original setting. And then are you going to allow it to happen? So by doing so, you are not limiting the element you see during the process. You are allowing more things to happen to enrich your experience. And in the end, the story might come after Mike. So is there a danger of it going to off track and not coming back to where your original intent was? I will say we will go off track. Because if we want to try something different is still under the structure and then the direction. There's what's the thing I've been clinging on to you for the past seven months, which is, you know, hold on tight. Okay, we're going to do a shot for my turn to let go easily. If it isn't if it doesn't fit isn't working. It's okay, you can let that go. But you know, be willing to fight for it. So this process is very important. Exactly. It's shaping and morphing. It's all about the process. Is that what device theater is? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So going back to my original question of how you kind of conceptualize something that's already shaping and moving at the same time. It's not, it's not concrete, you know, how do you how do you work with it? I try to try my best to and I'm delay it's happening now. There's a thought language that's happening where I try to figure out what Haley's intent is. Doesn't mean I'm going to be 100% accurate on it, but try to figure out what her intent is. And then from there move along that line. And that line often isn't like a perfect roadmap. It is, you know, maybe a section here, section here, section here and figuring out ways to connect those dots. It's the oh, for me, that's the way I look at it is kind of net her intentional dots. So trying to avoid sounding sexist and kind of binary. Are there differences based on your experiences where feeling as a female, the way her mind works kind of is nonlinear. And you have to kind of have that kind of operation to work that way. As you're in theater, you said before that is mostly male dominated and maybe things are more structured. I don't know. I mean, I especially in say educational theater and even in the Western theater, say more toward the West Coast, even as far out as here is I'm probably seen as a little bit off to the left already as people look at whatever I do and don't know how to describe it and put words on it like avant-garde or experimental, which is fine that they you know, somebody needs that category to understand something. Right. I mean, I don't set anything set out to make experimental theater, set out to make theater stories. But you mentioned linear. And that's the one thing I noticed about paling right off the bat is doesn't from what I can tell my interpretation is she doesn't think in linear way. I would expect that. And and my the tendency for me is because of being surrounded by who I'm surrounded by a lot of times is that we have to move in that direction. You know, things need to connect in linear ways. And resisting that is exhausting. So when I see someone who freeingly does that, it's like, Oh, maybe I should go spend more time over there and see what's happening. So I don't know that it actually the decision making and the thought process relates to sex, because I don't actually know if that is I'm going to thought about it that way. Yeah, I don't think I will put that as a female choreographer. I work more. I work less linear. Work less. Yeah, like I have less structure or I'm right. I don't tend to do to define my work with language or was that what you mean? Just yeah, the basis of your kind of concept is does it is it because of the nature of your being a woman that does affect? I don't know. I mean, this is why we're just putting it out there. Like, yeah, maybe, but I haven't think about it. I'm just because you embody it or yourself. You're the way you think is already who you are, right? But whether it's because of the nature of the sex is something that I'm obvious. And when it comes to the work, I I've never even thought about it in the way we communicate with with with other people. Possibly I haven't. We have different personalities. Yeah, and then sometimes I feel like I'm very direct. I know this is what I want. And I will just just be very clear about it. Yeah. And you mentioned before that, you know, you don't think about it, but the theater world is so male centric that we don't we just assume that the there are equal female parts and yet the female parts are just kind of supporting the male is the western theater canon is loaded from too long ago to even all the way up to the, you know, the 1970s will say even through the 80s, it's it's male dominated parts of the amount of roles available. You know, they're heavily skewed toward me. I have I have a lot of options. Right. The the female characters in the western theater canon are very limited to supporting your male, your male heroes, your male leader, the male protagonist. There's not a lot of options. And in theater, especially educational theaters dominated by women. Yes. Education is dominated by women. That's you don't think about how that kind of affects how we learn things or or assume position. Can we take a little few photos from your rehearsal process and maybe you can walk us through it? What are Yeah, so you can see in this photo. They are our dance student and also a student from non dance majors. Yeah, they are wearing colorful street clothes. They are being them. Are they exploring their own movements? So they are doing this part is a set choreography. Okay, these choreography was coming from improvisation exploration of the next photo. Another work. Yeah, this is the same section. Yeah, so the different body gender races. Right. And whether that's part of the story or not, it's still kind of affects the audience perception, right? Was that something was that racial elements something that you had a conscious effort to incorporate in your piece? Yeah, I think I yeah, I don't think I'm particularly single that out by the message I really want to deliver is to be together. So the hand holding and we need each other to receive the movement is important. And this is our dancers holding body parts of other people. Interesting. So there's a lot of connection connections. So when it comes to that, a lot of it is the exploration of the dancers themselves exploring and then you shaping what you see is that right? Is that part of the process? Some of it. But there's a one section is entirely my choreography. So I also just like I said, there are so many things I realized I can explore deeper here. And in dance part, we have a fixity of choreography and also flexibility in improvisation. So you get to see those in in one show in the show. And yeah, maybe I shouldn't know what we do is we'll take a quick break. But afterwards we come back, we have a short clip of some part of the dance process you have. And we can go into more specific aspects of the dance that you are exploring as a team, as this integral production as a, you know, wonderfully devised dance theater piece. And it is starting this Friday. So I'll remind you later. But don't go away. We're going to continue talking about integral bodies with Keola and healing. Hello, my name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii live from the studios. I'll bring you guests. I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your co workers safe, your family safe, keep our community safe. We want to teach you about those things in our industry that, you know, may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because security matters. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at two o'clock live from Think Tech Hawaii. And on our show, we talk about taking your health back. And what does that mean? It means mind, body and soul, anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about, whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means. Let's take healthy back. Aloha. Back on clock talk. I'm Crystal here with Paling and Keola talking about integral bodies is upcoming dance production at UH Manoa, that tries to reduce the misconceptions of disabled and different types of bodies and genders and everything. And we're just saying before the break that there's so many layers to this. We don't even know how to unpack it. We're doing a good job. Let's continue on. There is a video clip that you wanted to share that's part of the process. But is there anything you wanted to kind of explain before we show that? Yeah, so one of the big part of this production is to include people with disabilities. And it has been a very, very special experience for me. So I know this artist, choreographer called Alito Alessi, I met him 10 years ago. And I know he has been doing dancing with disabilities for 40 years. So I just reach out to him and then invite him to work on the two sections of this. So yeah, I'm really grateful to have a special education center of Hawaii to join this production. And we have a people from that institution and also two performers on wheelchairs to join this production. Yeah, maybe you can see them, their presence in the video. Okay, let's take a look before we continue just discussing what this means to be really, that's great. That's really a nice glimpse of just an aspect, just one aspect of your whole piece. Now, with the wheelchair, that must really kind of reshape your process. Because that's something that's solid, that's fixed, that you have to work around, right? Can you share a little bit of that experience and the people who are involved with the dancers and non dancers in something like that, that you're not used to, maybe people aren't used to working. I like the term get to work or get to work with instead of having to work around as it's a, like, it took me a while to even notice it. And there's the, sometimes we take ourselves a little too seriously and stuff we make and stuff we, and being in a room, I always joke with friends of mine that we don't dance enough. We don't sing enough, we don't hug enough. And having this refreshing presence in the room kind of reminded me of that, oh, like, yeah, maybe it's time that I don't need to be staring in a mirror, taking myself so seriously all the time when getting ready for a performance, and sometimes a little, little fun happen in this and let some, you know, irregular lines happen. Irregular lines, that's interesting, because I was just reading an essay in one of my performance studies courses where the perspective, there is an experimental project of the perspective of people in perhaps wheelchairs or in crutches, and how their point of view is different and how we need to learn to reshift our perspective. Is that something you're working on? Yeah, just in terms of talking about the element in dance, like the time and the space, actually everybody has a different sense of time. Your fast is not my fast. My slow is not your slow. So how can we include everybody's perspective and really see individuality? So we are trying to make these choreography everybody can do. How do you do that with, you know, a given piece of music, for example, and you have, like a temple, you have this concept of how it's shaped, and yet people have their own concepts of it. How do you work around that? Yeah, I mean, structure, right? I mean, when we come into the choreography of these sections, we need to have a very strong structure, and then we also need to know, in their response to the request, do they know the numbers? Do they know, can they hold on to the orders? But actually, luckily, I got all of them, they all know. They can't count it, they can't keep it. Like I reach out to your hand, and then they know I'm going to shake their hand. So that is a really good sign first. So I know, yes, they know how to respond. So we can keep going on to different deeper layer of the choreographies. And then I think they are all really good at dancing. When they know the choreography, it's just in their body. They embody those movements. Maybe they cannot count, or stay with the count, but I think that kinds of chaos happen in the reality, too. So how do I work around those, and include precision and chaos in one production, so to make things to happen. This work is kind of like a small world in small society. Like you see how many percentage of disability in the world, like 7% of 15, I don't know. But think about, we have 10 people with disabilities, and in 47, 47 of the cast members. There are 47 people in your cast? Yeah. Oh my gosh, that must be like rehearsal nightmare. Just to even coordinate schedules. Oh yeah. Can we talk a little bit about that? Because again, we're talking process, right? Because you sit in the audition that you casted everybody. I mean, how does that work? I mean, at first, it feels like a lot of people. At first, then it slowly starts to get down to, you start to know everybody. You recognize everybody. You start to feel when somebody's not there in the room. So that big mass slowly starts to become very identifiable and doesn't seem so as chaotic anymore. Okay. You know, if somebody's missing, you feel it. You know it. You may not be able to identify it right away, but you know when something's not there. Yeah, and also as a director and choreographer, you really need to have that space of allowing things to happen. Like you come to the rehearsal, have a plan. But of course, they are plan two and three and four. Okay. Just in case that people you want to see, they don't, they didn't show up. So I need to work with that flexibility in my choreography and in the process, so I won't feel upset. Like, why, why you are not here or not. It's, I think it's also working with the concept of accommodation. Like to, to respect in individuality. You know, students, they have their classes, other classes, and then they need to work. Yeah. Right. So I need to respect their time too. But with the compromise of doing what you need to do, though. Well, but I cannot see this as a professional product, because this is the education setting. We try to provide people opportunity. Okay. Many people to perform on stage. Now, only people that is quote, unquote good. Right. Otherwise, you always see the same people dancing and acting at a theater. It shouldn't be like that. I feel education is to provide student opportunity. When they have opportunity through the practice, they become better. And then they know how they feel like to become a professional. But for the audience's perspective, do they need to come in knowing that this is kind of an educational experience and that they are integrating aspects that are not what they kind of usually assume to be a dance. If that is the case, I hope that the educational part that they assume ends up being for them in the end. But visually, when you, when you start this thing, it'll look chaotic. It'll look like a lot of people. By the end of this thing, I assure you, over the the amount of time you start to be able to identify people within this, and it no longer looks like this chaotic scene of 47 people. You actually start seeing people and you've heard their stories and there are things that we, we, you will find throughout the process of the night. There are examples of perhaps you and I have had a, you know, very unique experience to ourselves, but possibly very easy experience, you know, physically in and around of the city. We, we are, oftentimes we don't even look at how we get in and out of a building. It's just very accessible. There are things that you will, you will find in this that hopefully people will find in it, is that they're, it's not, it's the ease that I have in this world and difficulties are probably unique to me in this, and that every single one of these 47 people have different things going on in their lives, all the way down to the sidewalks outside, outside of here. And then we took for granted. Yeah. There were a couple of photos that maybe we want to bring up just to kind of recap that type of concept. Do you want to talk us through a little bit of this? Yeah, so we have a, so you can see Isaac on the floor with Maria. Isaac is actually need a wheelchair to, to live in his daily life, but he is so excited to get off the chair and then to the end of the floor. And Maria is kind of like mimicking. Okay. Yeah. So we make the wheelchair as a part of the choreography. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So there's a lot that goes around that kind of prop. Like, no, is it a prop? I mean, to have fun with a wheelchair. To have fun with a wheelchair. I love that. And this person on top is, she's older. You're talking about different ages. You know, it's really. She's a beautiful dancer. Beautiful mover. I love it. And there are different levels you play with and different concepts of the body like you mentioned before. Wow. Okay. So what is your take away from this? I mean, with our limited time left, I'd like to hear what your take away and what you want people to take away from this. What have you learned through this process? In a very short time. Sorry, we only have it. I have, I have learned that if I think I, I think I think outside the box, I had, there is another layer of boxes to go when it comes to thinking. It has more to do with than me just seeing things within a theatrical space. There's a theater outside that we all live in and probably should start and need to start seeing. I hear you. Okay. I hope, I really hope people to see, come to see the show at least twice because there are things that you might not notice or, or invisible for your first time. It's like a poem. You read it. You have to read it again to take in aspects of it. Not, not necessary to understand it, but to get a sensation or feel about it. So remind us again when this show is. Yeah, we premiered this Friday and Saturday at 7, 7.30 at Kennedy Theater and also the week after from Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Sunday we have Monday at 2 p.m. And how can people buy tickets? There's information online. You can go to the Kennedy Theater Live on Stage.com. Live on Stage. Live on Stage.com. Okay, so remember that. A really, really beautifully complicated complex integral piece that encompasses what we were talking about, just a little bit of it, the position, the chaos, the different bodies. I thank you both for your wonderful insights, your process for sharing, and good luck. Break a leg. Not fun at all. This is horrible. But the beauty of this piece is for us to enjoy. So don't miss this chance, starting this Friday again. So thank you so much for both of your panelists. Thank you for having us. All right, don't miss it. Integral bodies.