 Boom, we're on, Frankie Boyd. Is that a Zeissan? Is that a Zeissan? And the day's guess, we've got a legendary Frank Maccaveni. How are you, buddy? First and foremost, thanks for coming on, mate. Not a problem. But they do say God's attract gods, but in this occasion, I get shagged as I attract shaggers. I don't know what I'm saying. I don't know what I attract most, anyway. It's just late, I say, mate. There's no questions in this show. We just talk, mate. Just go back to the pass where you grew up, obviously, the mountains, to go back to the end, mate, where it all started. I grew up in the mountains before I played football. I had 14 jobs. I mean, I had worked. I did what I left school at about 14 and started working in a clothing factory. And it was good, you know, it was good fun. And they used to make dressing goons. And I used to get some out in the Fridays and all that and sell them to the old deers in the mountains. And ice cream vans. It was brilliant because they had all the ice cream vans. You'd see all the women coming out with the dressing goons, you know, you've sold them. Everybody mountained my dressing goons. I was an entrepreneur way back. That's it. That was your meeting and put on a dressing goons and then it changed the team. Some of them, you were like, nah, nah, nah, nah. But it was good, mountain was good for me. I loved it. I was born in Springburn, but I went to mountain when I was, my mum took me there when I was one. My mum and dad didn't have nothing, you know, James. But it was great, we didn't have a lot, but we got a lot of love and all that. And it was good fun. The mountain was a good place. Believe it or not, I used to leave the doors opened and the neighbours would look after you. You know, my mum worked, my dad worked and the neighbours would look after you. So it was pretty good, you know. It was a pretty good place to get brought up. When did the football start then? When did you start realising you had a gift? I used to play down the deaf and dumb school down in the mountain. And we used to play just in our tenor side, usual. First at 21, our older boys. And we used to play and because I never played football till I was really professional, till I was 19, they'd say, where did you get your touch? And that's where I learnt my touch because it was gravel pitch. And some of the older boys you play with, if you didn't control it, you know, they'd come through you, they didn't, you know, they didn't hold back. So it was great for me. So I learnt all through. I used to play Sundays, sometimes during the week, you know, whenever I could, we used to jump offence and go and play in the deaf and dumb school. And it was great, I loved it. And we used to play on the street, growing up and, you know, the lamppost to the fence and the t-shirt, the jumpers doing as they go. It's great. It's all changed now, but it's fine. There's signs everywhere, no football on the grass and no ball games and you're like, what? You know, and I just, I think it's so wrong and I think it's such a lot to do with Scottish football that you're not allowed to do it. If you want to play football now, you've got to pay for it. You know, that's wrong. I mean, it's fun. Boys, I mean, I know you had a good pal of mine, Andy McClarnock, and I know he would have spoke of it, but he's doing a great job because some people have no good internet and all that, and all this nonsense, the government say that they want to play in their iPads and all that. Some people can afford the internet, so that's how poor people are in Mountain Springburn. And it's terrible, but I know you're a lot younger than me, but I've never seen this country in such a state that's in and out. You know, I know you've done that thing and well done for that, the homeless thing, but I've never seen some of these food banks, and people try, you know, people don't get things to eat. My parents went, they were poor, but we had the dinner every night, you know, the tour had worked and, you know, we went, we had shoes and we were feeding all that. It would have been a lot, as I said, it would have been a lot of love, but nowadays I think, my God, it's just getting terrible. It's a worry for a lot of people, especially the deprived areas. When you got a line postal, Frank, you're set up for failure. What you've got is chemists, bookies, pubs, chippies, indians. You're surrounded by that. How the fuck can you get into positive for that? Do you know what I mean? There's like four or five bookies in Sarasen Street. I know. I think there's two free chemists. I know. And these deprived areas, you're set up for failure. You're set up for failure. The chemists, you walk in the chemists, they're going to the Bronx, they're sleeping with the bars and all that. Oh, I know what you do. If you get any, I walked in, that's a shampoo, they looked at me as if I was stupid. I know. That's like methadone and that shampoo. Do you need that? Do you need an injection? No, I just want some shampoo. But for a man yourself, female, to get it, when did you, who was your first team you signed for, St Munn? St Munn, Johnson Burrough, was the first team. The junior team. The junior team. At the time when it happened, I used to go and play, I used to watch Celtic all the time, my dad took me all the time, and it was great fun, to be honest with you. And I used to go to the game, my dad took my uncle and we used to go. It was like a big thing, you know? And I was old enough to go money, he used to let me in the jungle and all that, as long as I was back 20 minutes before the, could've used to go to Celtic in, as long as 20 minutes before the end and all that kind of stuff. And it was great, I loved it. But I still played football at the time, and I used to play in the summer. And I remember playing for Cuxaiths and Pats. A cousin of mine got me a trial way, I can't remember the name of the team, but they were, they were, the YM or something, no one posted YM or something like that one. They were one of the good teams, amateur teams, and these guys, it wasn't good enough. And I'm like, okay. And I went and played in the summer with Cuxaiths and Pats. Pat McCloskey, who was coaching. So I went and played, and he says, look, I play the game, and against this team that, can't remember who it was, that long ago, but anyway, I absolutely battered them, you know, because he told me I wasn't good enough. So it was one of them, I battered them, scored a couple of goals, but I was playing them, I was always a midfield player. And I says, I don't want to play any more. And he says, look, can you come back, we've got a game next week. And I'm going, no, I don't want to, and he says, I'm playing against Cuxaiths Rangers. And I went, oh, I'll play that one. So it was, it was like the mini rivalry if you like Celtic Rangers. So Cuxaiths and Pats, Cuxaiths Rangers, Big Rivalry, Big Crowd, at the Cuxaiths Rangers junior ground. So it was good. I loved it. I nearly get sent off, but I never, luckily, you know, the referee told me to get there, you know, watch my tackling and, you know, get there quick and, try to tell them I was getting there as quick as I could, you know. But it was good. You could talk to the referees and then, as I say, I was walking through Glasgow in the Celtic game, get cancelled when I was old enough to go on and, and some of my pals, but then asked me to go and play for a team called the 200 Club. And the manager asked me to come along because it was short of players and he would give me a couple of beers after it. And that's basically, I went there and I played and there was a couple of scouts watching the boy I was playing against. And I don't know what happened to that poor boy, but my life took a wee turn that day. Is that what you're going to say to him? No, I went to, I signed for Johnson, but because they gave me £500 and they gave me cash, you know, it was great. Invest it well, did you? Invest it well, yeah, it was done for Sunday. It was super, I was buying everyone in Glasgow a drink at night, it was great. I was the king at night, it was good fun, but... That's a lot of dough back then. That was a lot of dough, yeah. But they knew because there was three professional clubs wanting me to go on trial, so they took a chance and they gave me £500 and said we'll still let you go on trial with the professional clubs. You see back then? So when I went and signed for, I actually went and tried with Thistle and Bertie, all my idol, one of my idols, told me I wasn't good enough. You're joking? No, he gave me a couple of games of Sub and you don't do that with trialers. And he said I wasn't good enough and I knew I was better than his team of Robus. And I told him that, so maybe I shouldn't have, but... Who were that? So, no, I just put my head under the water, I was sitting in the bathroom and he went, you know, because I was thin. Junior's your level. And I was like, oh, OK. So I'm back to Johnson, but I struck up his partnership with a guy up front called Ian McLeod, who was great. My still pals this day, which is tremendous, you know, way back then. And then I went and tried with Simon and I had two good games with Simon, then my third game I got sent off against Morton, the local derby. And it was a Rainfisher Cup tie. I was playing as a trialist and I got sent off because the guy in midfield was a nasty piece of work for Morton, so, you know, Mort bringing in for you. Morton coming in. The Morton boy coming in to me and I got sent off and I took some punishment off him to be fair. And the manager's Jim Clinic, I thought I'd blown it. And my manager says, we knew you had the ability, but we didn't know you had the heart. So because I got sent off, it worked for me. So and I signed and then he got sacked a couple of days later. But you just think because I knew he was getting sacked? I don't know, I don't know, but it worked well. And the manager came in, then your manager came in, Ricky McFarlane, who was brawing to me. He was under 21 manager at Scotland. He was a physio. So I couldn't even fake an injury. You know, in the Monday mornings, I usually fake injuries in Monday mornings, but I couldn't even do that because he was a physio. Or so he knew when you were faking and all. So it was great, but he put me in the Scotland team. He gave me my big start, he put me in... The first team? No, he put me in the Scotland under 21. He was a manager and he took me this year like this. He took me to Italy in the quarterfinal of the European Championships. We played over there, what a team this was. Midfield with me, I was in midfield. Neil Simpson, Neil Cooper, Jim Bet, Dougie Bell was there. It was just incredible midfield. Jaws McCluskey, we'd get Ian McDonald up front and we'd Richard Goff not playing. It was magnificent. It was just a great team. I mean, some of the boys in that midfield would just walk. Any any team nowadays. You know, Tati Cooper, God Restroom. And Neil Simpson, you know, they were great for that, but they never stole what's went in. So you'll not remember them, but back in the day they were. They were really good players, but yeah. So I scored a goal over in Italy and, you know, talking about going back to your roots is quite a fair... We played the game in canton zero. It was a week in the heatlands of Italy, somewhere, you know, some lands, I don't know where it was. And down there, we'd drawn an each at Hamden. I wasn't playing that game. I went over there and, of course, we'd beat them when I scored. So we'd beat them when I won. They're all slinging bottles and all that. Are their talons or something like that? So they're all slinging bottles and I'm picking up a can on drinking them and all that. So we're the king of games, isn't it? No, it was empty. Miserable. Miserable passers-ins. No, empty bottles. I know that daft of the talons. So when, after the St Munn, it was at West Ham? I played five years at St Munn. I had a great time at St Munn. Absolutely brilliant. Loved it. Four years in midfield, one year up front. And then I went to West Ham, John L. bought me in. And I get told I was going to Celtic. I get told in my last game, one of the games at Love Street, playing against Celtic. I get told that was my last game. And I was going to go to Celtic. After that, and they never seen me. I was gutted, you know. Was that? I'd done me a favour because I went to the line. I'd never been hit at Glasgow. I was Glasgow boy, I'd never been hit at Glasgow. Apart from the holidays with my parents and all that. Your first season for West Ham, were you no second top goalscorer? I should have been top, but anyway. Gardalanica was the top. He scored 12 penalties and I didn't take any. But you took West Ham the biggest finish that season? We should have won it to be very easy. The only thing that beat us that year was the weather. We never played for six weeks because the weather was so poor. And then we had to play Saturdays, Mondays and Wednesdays for five weeks to catch up. Because nowadays we had four replays in a cup tie against Ipswich. Three against Man United before we progressed. It was terrible. And we only played 15 players that year. That's all we used, 15 players. So it was great. I loved playing. I would rather play than train. I didn't like to train. I don't think the majority of people did. That's why I know he's me. People say that players are tired now. I'm going, it's fucking September. The season just started. I can't be tired. I mean, it annoys me. I look at Roger and I'm going, what a talent that boy is. Paddy McCourt was the same. And I'm going, how can they know in the last 90 minutes? Call me old fashioned, but I hated running. I hated going around Strathclyde Park. But why not give these boys a chance? Because this obviously the modern technology and fitness, isn't it worth for these boys? Going to open their lungs and give them a chance, because I would love to see Roger play 90 minutes. Say that again, a lot of injuries now. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? When he's knackered after an hour, you go, there's something to write. Going to open your lungs out. Some of the managers have played under it with their comfort. And I know it's no brand, it's the way the world and it's all changing. Some movement. Nutrition. People tell me, people tell me you might get injured. You're fucking injured walking down the stairs. That's my point. I go, you're having a laugh in you. People go, now you don't want to play this week. Can you imagine me wearing any hat monitors? Fucking Sunday nights. After a Sunday night. He's going to explode. He's this man's deed. He's going to say, this is a trip me hospital. Every Monday, this is a trip me hospital. He's saying he's deed. Say after your West Ham men, because I know you're not on the walking show, that's when you say your life turned around. In what experience? Well, I scored 15 goals and there was no TV coverage. And they were arguing over £300,000. Something like that. It was embarrassing. So that was the extent of it basically. And so everyone up here couldn't see it. And it was a score of 14 goals by October or something. It was incredible. I just took this, this urge. And I played, started, he bought me some midfield plan. And the other player gets injured on a Saturday. And he put me up front 10 minutes ago or something. And then Tuesday night, he played me up front with Tony Coty. And I scored two and the poor player gets injured. Couldn't get back in. Because me and him just took off. We were holding boys and it was great. Everyone in football knew me. But James, I was going out on Saturday night and I was partying. And I was just doing what I wanted to do. Because nobody in London cares about footballers. You're not here to be on end all. Down in London, you're not sure they won't join. Charles Michael, they're all sitting in corners. And you're like, well, nobody bothers me. So I just wanted to be that. Enjoy myself and see what I could do. And I loved that flying boy and all that. I loved all that. And then I got asked to go on the walking show. I was just about to make my debut in November for Scotland. And I asked me to go on the walking show. And now 23 million people watched it. And I was on my Mido, who gave me a player a year up when I was at Simon. And a Scottish player a year thing. Dennis Law. So I was on my Dennis. Which is probably, I mean, it doesn't get much. Peter compared me to Dennis. People say, you know, they compared me to Dennis Law and all that. But, you know, I didn't reach his heights. But, you know, I think it's a wee bit unfair. Because Dennis used to stay on the Friday night, you know. Boring bastard. Oh, my goodness. But it was, you know, that was good. To go on every Mido. I made such a good laugh. And it didn't really bother me, you know. 23 million people went on. There was a programme called The Young Ones. And it was the boy, Eddie Emerson or something like that. One of the crazy boys was on combusting through the walls. You know, it was a great fun. And I realised what happened, because I played on Saturday and then my mum was going to Australia. My brother was in Australia. She was going to Australia on a Sunday. So she flew down to Edinburgh, Heathrow. She flew down to Heathrow from Glasgow. And she had a four-hour layover, change of planes, whatever, to get to Australia. So she's rather committed for about lunch. I went to Heathrow Airport and as soon as I walked in, I knew my life had changed. Because all the old ladies and, you know, people that had nothing to do with football, came up and wanted photos and all that. And I'm going, it was just... Did that hands you a career for another bit? No, it hands my career. I took it. You know what, I've never... I'd like to think I've never said no to an autograph or a photograph. Or any of you? Or any of you. But it's people go like to you, you know, they say, I didn't get pissed off at them when you're joking, aren't you? How can you get pissed off at that? What a life playing football and people... Loving you? Loving you and you go... I mean, I went to the... I got invited to the tattoo. Militia tattoo. This is how embarrassing I get. I was there. I got invited backstage, backstage, back behind the castles, but... And they're all having a drink, not a lot of people. They're all great people. And they're all coming in and going, oh, you're my hero. And I'm going, what? And they've all got these badges. I'm going, I'm not a hero. I just play football. You know, these guys have got badges for everywhere. You know, Iraq, Afghanistan, and you're like, these boys are getting bullets for long enough, and they think I'm a hero, and I'm going, ah, it's so different. You've got that lovable character, Frank, where you are a good guy, and you're fucking nuts, and you're crazy. You're one of the boys. Do you know what? I've just done everything. Anyone in Terrison. I came for the Terrison. Tommy Burns, God bless him. He used to say to me, you're so different because I came for the Terrison on a park. You know, other boys at Celtic, when I was there, there are Celtic sports, but they grew up through the academy and all that. So they never really got to support the team. When I was there, in the Terrison, you know, watching them, even as a man, me and McDougal used to go to Celtic games. Midweek games were like, we never did a game. You used to go to Celtic boys, no? We just came, one of the boys, and all, but I think that's where the lifestyle came in, and everybody goes to the football, the day drink, the day can have a blow-out in that scene you were doing in London because you were saying, you know, George Best and the massive names. You know what I mean? Listen, George, when I'm down with the same manager, George had the same business manager as me, so Paul McMurdo, so it was great, George, just the easiest one. Everyone thinks you're so different. You know, everyone thought George was earning the same money as we were making that time. We were making good money that time, but not life-changing money, which we're making nowadays. But people still think I was making that kind of money that I'm making now. People think you're making that back then, so they don't understand that you've got to try and do it somewhere. And George, the biggest problem with George, he was such a star, you know? I mean, he was... Two mass worlds with your left idea. Four. By the way, and he'll tell you he never turned up for one. Incredible. Oh, so it was... And he makes a point of telling you he never turned up for one of them. That's five. He's... But that glint, that Irish glint, he's a great character, great to be around. Drunk or sober, it was a different class to me, you know? And people say, I got a lot of advice from George, you know? He was great because there's nothing that I went through that he never went through. He's a legend, isn't he? He was good, you know? And I missed him. I do. I got unwell. I used to go... I remember once I was in his club, and he had a place called Blondes, I said, a restaurant in Weinbaugh. And I'm in the restaurant with a few people, and the way it's come through, I said, George's in there. I said, can you go and make sure he's all right? I'm saying, well, he's pissed. I said, I had no problems having a way through. And he's on the bar himself, and I'm sitting there beside him. I said, you're all right? And he looked and he said, my God, how are you doing, son? I said, I'm all right. I said, fucking hell, you look all right? He's like, yeah, I'm all right. I said, do you want to come through and join us? He said, no, I should see you with it. He said, I can't remember. And he's got a smell. He's got this glint and a smell. And I thought, come on, join us. I just wouldn't join. There's just then two gorgeous, gorgeous women, girls, whatever you want. Models, they're just stunners. Two absolute drop dead. Come all night to the toilet. And they just brushed me aside and the two of them got in beside George. And I went, is that who you're with? Yeah, yeah. I went, all right. Do you need a hand? Money goes, money goes, he's no. Bro. A lot of beautiful man. Only Pax would have done this unbelievable. He just smiled. He was like, that glint. And you know what? I met Cal in my cocktail. And I love the boys. He's a great man. I spoke to his mum a few times. Angie as well. She does amazing things. I met Cal in my cocktail. I didn't eat it with him. I used to eat them once. Your dad will have got everyone in for mine. That's mad. He's a good boy. Do you ever think yourself lucky as well, Frank, that you could have spiralled out of control worse than what it was, the drinking or the partying? No. See, the thing is, I never partied as much as what they say when I was playing football. You couldn't do what I'd done in a football part if I was taking all these drugs and all that. I got injured for nearly a year. I was hit for nearly a year. And it's a lonely, big place to be injured. And I was just going to open the envelopes. I was going to parties. And that's when I took drugs for the first time. But it was... It wasn't a... Every night? It wasn't a... You know, the papers love to say, you know, you took it all the time. It was a drug addict. I'm not going to go and ask for help. There's a lot of ex-players that I know ask for help and say they're addicted. No, they weren't addicted. They were social. Right. But because they've asked for help, it seems to be acceptable. And I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't have... I'm not like some psychiatrist. I didn't need to pay a psychiatrist to tell me I was taking too much drinking drugs. I knew myself. You know, I would rather keep money and spend it in drinking drugs. No, you know what I mean. I didn't need to go and speak to somebody. And then it just... You know, when I'm back playing football, I just stopped having... And people couldn't understand why I could do that because I wasn't addicted. It was only social. I think that was the void, but the loneliness when no getting that attention, no any part playing. You feel lonely, feel everything comes into that way. Terrible. Terrible. And it's a hard fight to come back when you're at that long. And you need good people to know about you. You know, it was the... You're the String Fellows, and actually your pals. Peter was good. Peter was great at me. Peter was... I loved him. I loved the whole thing about Peter. Peter was great. He was a businessman. He always had a glass of champagne, but it wasn't champagne, it was water sometimes. A lot of time it was water. He's a businessman. You know, people say to me, people say to me, I've got a question and answer, a couple of weeks ago, who was your mentor? I'm saying it to him, died. You have none, Peter. You couldn't answer two better hands than that. I wanted these... I wanted these dressing gowns, but they're not giving me that. When... See when eventually your boyhood heroes come in for you, Celtic. Yes. How are you feeling? It was great for me, because I didn't want to leave West Ham, but I loved West Ham, it's you. Was that... Was it West Ham, or was it the lifestyle? No, I loved West Ham. West Ham were brilliant. The fans took to me. Mm-hmm. You know what? I could have done what I wanted in West Ham because... I think you did fine. I know, but... Because I'd done it on a Saturday. Mm-hmm. You know, I'd done it on a Wednesday. I was always ready for the game. So the fans will accept that. The fans will accept. Because you're one of them. Are you still in connection with the fans? Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. You've taken them to their biggest ever finish, don't you? Big time. It's huge, don't know. So I'm bigger than them, but I'm here, you know, it's where the fans, it's massive. It's mad. It's incredible. I want to... You know, I've got a few problems where it's not Celtic, but Celtic and my boyhood team, you know, they've got... Mm-hmm. But sometimes, you know, I'll open your mouth and talk about Celtic, you know. It's just one of them. I'm annoyed because, you know, they've got this great season in their life, I mean, obviously, six to seven. And then with the Lisbon Lions and kind of match that, but one of the other big years was the Centenary year. And there's a footy upside the board or the heroes and legends that are Celtic, and there's a footy of the Centenary team, and I'm the one that... That's not I. So I'm like, you know, I'm not into any special favours, you know. I don't deserve that. What do you want the recognition that you did yourself? I wanted a team footy. At least in the team footy. Yeah, in the team footy. I should be in the team footy, you know. But it was a cup final as well, and I scored the two goals. And I'm not in the footy. I don't even know that. I'm not in the footy, so I'm a wee bit pissed off. Did you ever go back to the park? I go back to the park. Yeah, I took a box out, fuck. And I was giving them their money. Fuck the hell. They owed me money and I gave them more. I'm back to a box, a couple of years back, a partner of mine, and it was brilliant. Number nine, we had the box out. It was great, but we used to have too many people in the box. Forty-handy. Oh, Kero, you know. Get that table out. We don't want any food. Get bodies in. I know your trophies, I know. I know the double you did that one. You gave your trophies to Wally Hawke. Wally and the Lord. Lord Hawke. Wally was great. When I went, I was inspired to do the control when I was in Newcastle. I got in a bit of bother. In just life, it was just, you know, and you either, you know, go one way or the other. And I go back together, and I could do wee things, but you know, you need something. You need to be boosted to get you in front again. And my medal was in my jersey, so Lord Hawke said to him, and he gave me some decent money for it. And I said, the only condition I get a bit back, you know, if I want them. And he says, yeah, because they were lying in my drawer. I mean, they were just doing my drawer when I was, after football, as I say, I was spiralled, but I thought, enough's enough, now I need to get out of this. And Wally gave me money and I tried to give them back. He gave me my medal, I tried to give them my money, and when he took it. So he's such a lovely guy, you know. I feel like playing football. Oh, I brought him in. Yeah, I mean, the other one, you know, they got a lot of stick, James Mortimer and Wally Hawken, you know. But they, everybody go, they always put money in the charity, you know, and they're big rivals, you know, because it's like me and McCoy, because we're good pals, but you know, we're kick crappies, and we're a bit of rivals when we're playing against each other, but you know, we're good pals. And Wally and James are good, as well, you know. Businessmen. Businessmen, but they've made, they're only, they're the same as us, they're humble people, came for nothing, and they've made a lot of money, and they try and help people out, and you know, to be fair, Wally helped me out a lot. I think the best thing, I think a lot, a bit of post up there, so it's a real welfare person, how much money they make or how many material possessions they have, it's about how much goodness they take, the world of how much good they do, and for people to do a lot of charity work, you don't hear about it. No. You don't hear about it. You hear all the bad shit. I know, I mean, I went Christmas there to James Mortimer, asked me to come up and do something, and Casper Cousin, he's got a big warehouse, he's got a big warehouse over the south side, and it was just full of toys, for the kids and all that, and so me and a couple of Ex-Rangers players, and certainly boys, and I went and got my photos and all that, it's just incredible, the things that these boys do. You know, nobody knows about it, it was just, which is, ah, it's brilliant. Very good. Who was the best player you ever played with? Played with? Yes. There's a few, Kenny Douglas was up there. Thank you, Kenny. Time out and boys. I was, I was, I was, I was fortunate, you know, I played in the near, Paul Mcstay was magnificent to play with, Celtic. If he'd have left Celtic, they'd have got the recognition. They deserved it. They deserved it, because he was world-class, he was, he was that good. But I was fortunate in the Scotland team to play with David Cooper, never said he was like a magician. And till he trained me, something like that, in a deal of basis, you know, and Graham Soonis was, you know, for all to say about him, for all to say about him, you know, what a player. How many Soonis, how many Douglas probably helped me the most in my debut for Scotland, you know, they were talking to me all the time. The two of them, great boys and, you know, I'm still puzzling now, so yeah, good. The main thing is trying to make it as well. You need a lot of guidance, Frank, don't you? You need people to take under their wing as well, it's one of them. I wasn't even very fortunate. I should have got a lot more caps, to be honest with you, but I fell out. Would you get five? I got five, but to be fair, the boys I was up against, Kenny, I made my debut with, which was a boyhood dream for me, because in 1973, when Kenny left Chelsea, I was in tears. I thought my world had ended. So, you know, and then, to become a teammate has, then to become a pal has, and, you know, it's just a bit surreal to go. That's a dream, but Frank, you've worked on. That's a dream that people are watching, people are listening to. You can make it, man, no matter where your friend, no matter where. Well, these boys are just, you know, I couldn't play Kenny's, or Marina's golf day and all that, and it's great. And, you know, a couple of months ago, he was up with Marina, and he was, I mean, he's my missus, he's set a Celtic function, and it was great. He's just a good lad, you know, he's just a great, you know, if everyone didn't know who he was when he went to Liverpool, but I thought, I knew there was only one person who could take over for Keegan. You know, I was a big football guy, so at that time, I was into a lot more football than that. I'm now, you know, I think something's lost to me, but I get annoyed at football now. Yeah, it's not the same, is it? It's robots, you know, and... Can I turn it? Can I do it? You know, I'd love to see people doing more with the ball and going to take people on, and, I mean, like, Paul Gascoyne says to their dad in the picture, he says, you know, he treated the ball like a diamond I've had in their own half. He says, but once he got it over the halfway line, he says, I just used to try things. Mm-hmm. He says, because the wooden tops, as he called them, the defenders. The wooden tops. They would take care of it if I lost it. Mm-hmm. What a player he was on all, weren't he? You know, I was fortunate to play in that era. We all aimed David Cooper, Doug Leesh, Paul McStave, you know, Gazzar, Loudero, you know. That's some line-up on that thing. It's magnificent. So, it's, they were all about when I played. So I was, I was delighted. And the best goal scorer of them all, you know, McCoy's was in top draw. But even though... They kept him out of the team. Ha-ha-ha-ha. But he hates that one. No, he doesn't like it. I don't know. He was talking about that, he sure went to World Cup in 1986, but I took his place. Sorry, mate. Ha-ha-ha. No, you're not. See, even though, all your carry-on, Frank and Everett and, you must have been dedicated as well behind closed doors that need to tie. I'd take a piss, no, I will have a laugh, but... You've got to get to the top. You've got to be, you've got to be something, you know, you put a bullet, I'll chase a bullet. Somebody said to me, Peter Martin, I think it was said to me, I would chase an empty, empty Chris Park in a windy day. Ha-ha-ha. He said, I would chase lost causes, you know. And I think I was part of my job. I was part of, made me who I am. And my fitness, I was naturally fit. So, but, you know, you've got to come on every day and train. You know, if you were out at night before, the boys will cover for you if you come in and do your bit. You know, as long as, as long as I didn't do it too often, I was late on Monday morning, usually coming up for London, when I was at Celtic. But it was, people say it was never there, no, no, it was only one day. The first week that I was late, I didn't come back to Tuesday. Ha-ha-ha. It was fully in month. No, no, I phoned me Joe and I said Joe, it was 10 past eight, and I phoned Joe and I said, Joe, I'm not going to make my flight. I said, Terry Gaffer, I'm not going to make it, I'm going to be late. And he says, Joe, I'm not going to make it. Ha-ha-ha-ha. It was a good weekend. Jink is well, but, if you'd... That was the first weekend I ever met Ray Winsteads. I'm blaming him. Oh, is that? I'm blaming Ray. Oh, god yeah. That boy can drink. But Jink London, see Jink as well, but Frank, if you'd knuckle doing another drink, Jink you could have excelled even further. I don't think so, because I don't know if the ability to do that, I don't know my natural ability was just, was running. Wasn't, at the World Cup, there's two players were meant to play with each other. It was myself and Charlie Nicholas. Everyone in football knew that. And the press took his away and got his dressed up as Cowboys not were at a place called Santa Fe and Fergan have I liked it because the press were picking the team. But he made the wrong decision. You know, he didn't play me up, I was fucking top goalscoring, I was saying top goalscoring Europe. But was that the decision? I was like, sell it to Rangers, I didn't come in to play with that. Well, he told me, Graham as soon as told me that Fergan would drop him when he came in because Graham told me he was going to buy Rangers and Fergan wanted the manager to drop Rangers. So there was politics there. You know, and you're not going to tell me, I'm still believe that Kenny, if I went to the World Cup in 86 because Hanson, if I went, you know, Hanson was the best defender I've ever played against. You know, Muller and McLeish were great. Hager and Neri were great together. But if you're going to play against the best strikers in world football, you need somebody that's won the Champions League a couple of times. You know, and Hanson never, you know what I mean, got to Scotland. You're joking. So he never took him and Fergan fell out with Kenny because I think, you know, Kenny says he was down there, but he wasn't there, that's the reason. And then he dropped, soon as, the one game that in this world of football, you want Graham Sooners to play in was against Uruguay and he never played him. And it's politics, it was wrong. It was deadly wrong. I fed it out of him. I mean, when he dropped me out, I wasn't happy with it, you know, and he played Paul Sturrock and, you know, Lucky's a good player, but me and Charlie were meant to play with each other. It was just two players that were meant. At the biggest stage. We got to the latter end of our career, we got to South Dakota, a second part of the second time I was there and what a laugh we had playing up front together. We were making people and stepping over it. And it was just, you could tell that we were just meant to play with each other. Charlie wants having it feet, I'll do the run. So that was my biggest regret, the World Cup, because I get put on twice, but I sure have been on fire. Got a link, I wanted a golden boot. Was that the season you... I'm the season. 28 goals, yeah. But there's not, that's some feet, maybe there's not many people score me on 20 goals on that division. No, I scored 26 league goals. Me and Tony scored 56 goal betuners or something like that, which is magnificent. That was a great achievement. You still speak to Tony? I was still on the phone this morning, actually, yeah. He phoned me this morning, we've got a couple of gigs coming up in October. So, Tony's alright, I was phoned him because he gets shot, I feel sorry for him. Did you get what? He gets shot in that film, the football one, it was done at West Hamlatt a couple of years ago. Football factory? No, the one that's shooting now, made a big wrestler. He's got what? What? Batista, yeah. How's it get done in that? He gets shot, I'm not sure. I'm not sure, he's shot at the beginning, if I'm... That is good, Tony's great. We got more now than we did when we played together. Tony number eight. Oh, he was dead, he used to go hit me and write me diagrams and about how he scored and a lot of nonsense. I used to go tell somebody. Because you get a lot of work, don't you, Frank? You still get everybody wants your company, you're a guy, everybody wants to be around. I can do my own London, it's great. Obviously, when you get down there, you've got to speak a lot slower. Was it crazy not to have a book done there? No, no, no, they were going, I knew some of the boys that went about with them. You know, I knew a lot of the boys down there, so... But, you know what? When I went down there, there was a film called ICF, and they were with some boys and they looked after me, I didn't realise, I used to go out and I remember once having a pub and I was on my way into London with a girlfriend, and this guy would give me a hard time and I thought, Paul, let's do that. He stepped over the line. So, I said, wait here until the governor's, he went, I said, I'm going to talk, and he follows me, I'm going to knock him out and all that, so the mountain boy came at me. Again, you seem to have a lot. I went out into the toilet and I'm standing there, and I never come in, and I come out and there was a big commotion on that. And the boy, he'd followed me in, but somebody just sparkled him and he put a big call-in card on him, congratulations, you've just been done with ICF. You're weird. That's what he used to do. Not people who put a big card on him. Just the guys who sparkled him. It was the ICF looking after me. I guess the ICF are one of the biggest things at Worldwide. There are no names. Great boys, great boys. They're great boys, so it was the same as me, I used to wind everyone up, but I bought my book out years and years ago, and there's a wee bookshop across the road, Faye Upton Park, and it says, what game do you want? I said, Millwall. He said, you can't have Millwall. I said, I want Millwall. I said, Frank, you're security a bit too. I said, I don't care, I want Millwall. I don't care about security, so. And there's a big statue of all the boys that won the World Cup for West Arming, so the ICF had my cast pen and all that, and they swallowed it all to protect that. So they've got the soldiers, if you like, all looking after it, and they've got a couple of people outside the bookshop. Because the Millwall's reporter said he could buy the show. And that's what I wanted to have is, because I couldn't stop laughing, and I'm thinking, this is brown. Big 40, me and the Millwall. What's it coming by? It's great. When you broke your book out, it was a guy, my old man used to work in the cotton club. Yes. And he was talking to a lot of the bouncers, and he says, when you broke your book out, you say to a lot of the bouncers, I, it was eventually good to read the acts of what I'd done, because I can't remember for a while. I can't, I know, I know. Somebody says that's why they bring DVDs out, you know. See what you've got? See, obviously, in the new year stuff, you've got, we Jonathan, are you pals with him? Do you want to say something? No, I don't, he's a wee ranger, man. I know Johnny well, but not, I know Johnny well, but no. Because you, and that only excuse, you are the main character. Listen, I think, I think Johnny must be, must be doing something, I don't know what he's done, he gets that contract with the way we see it. It's, it's, it's no very good, isn't it? I mean, he went off at Boyle, there's so much that he could have done. You know, I was, I mean, we cost him an event, he'd get put in a garden and leave, and I never done anything like that, and I'm going, hey, why do you know that? Because cost a great lad, and he's a good fund, and he would take it the way it's meant. Aye. Never done him. And I'm thinking, he's listed a lot of you when he's doing politicians and pop stars and that, and that's not what he's supposed to be about. So, I mean, it does me, it's great, listen. Do you handle it or do you put on these? I mean, the best one for me was, you know, the petrol station and all that, people ask you, they always ask you which you're favouriting. And I've never said it's worth a person before you say anything, but, the best one was the petrol station I'm filling up, and this card draws up and there's two blondes on the card and they're smiling or that, and I go in to the petrol station and the guy says, Bump 2 and I say, no, yeah, I'm working on it. LAUGHING No, yeah, I'm working on it. That is brilliant. Where did it? So I met the girls, which we did that, you know, I was one of them, they were all over you. Where did that come from then? Where's the bums? Is that because you're always fine? I apparently had a bar, when I used to have a bar in Glasgow, and my brother worked in the bar, And I was trying to open up a place called School Dinners. It's a restaurant, but you get whipped and all that. I'm good, I'm good, right? You can imagine why I'm like this anyway. I was doing interviews and I came into the bar and I had to go in the back and say checks and all that usual stuff. And my brother says, look, there's some girls here for interviews for the School Dinners and for the restaurant. I said, okay, so I went in the back and I back. I came in and I said, where are the girls? And it was Phil Differ's pal, Phil Differ, right serving for Johnny. And apparently his pal was at the bar speaking to my brother and he says, what'd he say? And he says, where's the girls? And that's where he came from. He just changed it. Where's the buzz? Where's the buzz? Because it stopped way back then. And people say, I don't say that, you know? I've never said that in my life, you know? Where's the buzz? How's it stopped way back then? I wish I was, when you call it, do something, you know? Let's get ready to rumble. He's a mug to mow, you know, with that phrase. I should have paced into it, shouldn't I? I wouldn't say it, anyone would say it was a buzz. Because it is, the people shout that out, you know? I'm all to my own, you know? What would you say the highlight your career was? Erm... Oh, man. How many? It sure have been. I've got a cut, but, you know, one in the league. People think it's a cut final, but it's Celtic. But one in the league, in this interview, it was so hard because Rangers, it's all the players they had. Magnificent players, you know, all the big boys, you know, Butcher, Roberts, Woods. Butcher was a tough bastard, wasn't he? Wolkins, you know, Mark Walter, some great players. David Cooper still there. They had some great, great players, Koyste. What a team they had, you know, we, Gerrani. I mean, brilliant, what a player he was. Unbelievable, so... It was, as soon as played as well, in a lot of the games, so... For us to go and win the league that year, there were so much of the underdogs. Because everyone at the bottom, or Celtic Bob was me. It was cheers. But when did, more Johnson went and then when? Ah, that was after it. There he is. More left, Celtic went A. Do you play with him all? No, he went to Nantes. I play with him in Scotland, but he went to Nantes. When more went to Nantes, I went to the Seuss. Is that a big mistake, his part? Oh... He turned one of his bedrooms into a sauna. That says everything there. Still cleaning it up, you know? Oh, brilliant. That was brilliant. All right, we had some good nights there. See, I hadn't rinsed his boys. That was in 88, 89? Oh, 87, 88, 89. Oh, it was incredible. And then I came back. I came back in 91, 82 or something like that. And that's it. So, after all the football, Frank, you've been doing yourself then, which is great. I'm doing all right. I've got my, you know, I've got my hat together and I'm still... I've got a left. I was in London, I was in Newcastle for 15 years, so. I wasn't married for a long time, so. And then I'm back up the road. Lasted, but then the last... I'm back up the road and then I've met a girl. And I've been going out for five years now, so. Everything's going good? Everything's going good. She's good for me. Everyone says she's good, she is for me. You know what I think? What kind of person is that? What kind of person, I don't know. You're so good for her. What the fuck was that about? Thank you very much. But it was all good fun. At Wisney, you know, I've never... I would like to think I've never hurt anyone in my life. You know, I've got a great... My first man is I've got a great boy. You've met him, Jake. Oh yeah, a great guy. Jake's, you know, and his mum's nuts as well. So, for him to have me and his mum. And, you know, that was part of the deal. I wanted to keep my name, so I'm delighted, you know. And he's a great lad. He's 20-odd now, and he's a great lad. So, I'm delighted for him. I've got something in this life that's done proper. Makes you proud. But you've had a great career, mate. You should be very proud of that. I've had a good life. You know, I've had a good life as well. And I've just done everything that the fans would do. I'm happy in the knowledge that... People say, you know, I've done more than I'm going. Well, the players I was up against, I mean, because you... Imagine Scotland team now playing against... I mean, I had Doug Leesh, McCoy, Johnson, Charlie Nicholas, Graham Sharpe, the Heavens striker, Magnificent striker, David Speedy played with Chelsea. It was unbelievable for strikers. And for me to get half a dozen caps out of five caps, I'm delighted, you know. I wish I'd get more, but... But anybody would be happy with half your career, Frank, man. So what you've achieved, I think, is unbelievable. I don't know, mate. I don't think many people's went to England and done well. Done as well as what I did. No, scored as many goals as you anyway. No, I scored as well. But you're set. And on and off the park as it is. But I think... For even coming on here, mate, and getting as your time has been, I really appreciate that, and your stories are... Why is he coming on to you doing that Christmas thing? Make everybody feel sorry for me. I knew that would work. You know what? You've done me the effort, so then, good luck to you. Listen, I appreciate that, and listen, your stories are absolutely phenomenal. I wish you all the best for the future, Frank. Thank you. I really appreciate that, man. Cheers, James. Thank you.