 I Know what I'm going to be called today All right. Hey everybody welcome to the Linux cast sorry about being a little bit late. I Opened up OBS in the camera wasn't even registering as a device. So I have no clue What was going on there? I unplugged it plugged it back in and it worked fine. So Yeah, that's the way my Linux has gone over the last 24 hours Bruined my Debbie and install last night by an uninstalling plasma Don't ever uninstall plasma. It just takes everything with it Anything as I knew that it would do that like I knew it would take it took network manager It took everything with it So on try to uninstall plasma plasma you uninstall plasma. It's like taking the base of a building How is the building going to stand my friend? Yeah, anyways, so I'm not undebbing anymore. I went back to open Susie tumbleweed Actually kind of happy to be here, but well anyways, we'll see if we give some yeas or nays on the audio I'd be appreciative. This is me saying some words Steve say some words This is me saying some words You guys are gonna have to forgive Steve. He's on the accent kick again I'm Lebanese. This is the English Lebanese accent. You can ask any Lebanese by the way. Oh Shut up email Do you remember kudu from your server? No Okay, there's a guy called kudu on your server. We were together yesterday yesterday in the city center We met in real life. And he wasn't a serial killer. I Is a good guy I Enjoyed ourselves. We had a we had a sandwich They're called Malika tau Malika tau is she's tau in a sandwich No offense to everybody who is in my discord server, but I don't think I'd meet very many of you I'm pretty sure there's definitely some serial killers in there Lucky it was he was a nice kid. We took a picture together and he We I showed him my old job because the city that's where I used to work in city center in a shop called I-Style I took him there and I tried to get Log, how do you say in American? I tried to Isil my way back into working there just asking if they were asking for people Got a job again Work like normal human beings not sitting behind a computer Yeah, I sit behind a computer for my job. All right. Anyways, welcome to the links cast guys Thanks for joining us. It's just me and stevo today Tyler is on vacation. Josh is getting fiber internet Lucky bastard Maybe arch will work for him this time. I doubt it I doubt it arch hates him. Anyway, so we got some news We're gonna talk about today, but first we need to to get everything set up and ready so we can actually record Cuz I'm way behind Other recording like 15 minutes better not if not you'll have extra audio You just delete the first part Actually, not as easy as you make it sound We're trying to line things up. You want them to be about the same length as possible Although as we end up with last week's problem where I couldn't get wind up at all I ended up using the OBS thing and you were like super quiet Hopefully that's not the the the case today Last week we couldn't blame me not having the volume of my headphones. That was so stupid All right. Anyways, let me do a test recording here. Make sure Blue male got an update Cares, I'll build it later. Isn't blue male proprietary nonsense Some people use it All right, let's go ahead and get started here. I'm gonna hit record in Audacity, I'm gonna hit record in OBS and you can do the claps when you feel like it Right, sir Whenever you're ready the count of three Was it even close No, not even close even with just two people we still can't do the class for the damn. It's okay Yeah We promise we're gonna find a better way of doing that Josh and I have been discussing it. There's other opportunities for us to Record things that are not discord that make it easier for us to synchronize things. The problem is that they're not Free They're they're they're pricey. So we'll see how that goes. Do you just did you discuss? Jesse We've talked about jitsi, but that's basically just gonna give us the same problem with as discord And I've used jitsi before that's very reliant on the server, right? If the server is bad you get bad quality And I think it uses the zoom back end I Think all like discord jitsi zoom all use was open RTC or something like that. Yeah So they all use the same thing Really what we're looking for something them that will allow us to easily record the videos separately So it's easier to to kind of Line things up Windows I have a lot of options on Linux. I don't know any options Well, one of the options to use is Skype Skype. We'll let you do it on but I'm sorry to disappoint you Skype does not connect In like where you're at or just you just can't use Skype. Okay. Well, it doesn't really matter We weren't gonna use Skype. Anyways, I use Skype for my other The only thing we can do with Skype is make pipe Landline calls I use Skype specifically because I have I put Credit in there because whenever I need to call my bank in Ireland instead of using landline calls I use just Skype it cost me nothing Like zero point zero two dollars a minute Yeah, thank thank God for Skype for situations like that. Let me open up the notes here because I had to close them All right banks still use landlines. Yeah No, we were saying he wasn't saying that was doing using the zoom back in isn't it was actually using zoom What he meant was it was using open RTC. I think I think it's what he meant Zoom uses web RTC. That's that's what I was looking for you Whatever it is We don't know. Yeah, it's web RTC because discord uses it and on this ISP Discord does not connect for me. It's get stuck on connecting to web RTC, but webcord works I don't know what magic webcord does but Matt is not using GNOME. I Don't have you will be using GNOME with a capital No, I won't be doing that. All right, let's go $10,000 you will Online crypto that's monopoly money. All right I'm too old for that nonsense is it is where it's at where that's at. All right, let's go and get started Obviously, we don't have to worry about an order this week because it's just you and me Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Linux guests. I'm your host Matt Are you serious? Are you serious right now? There's no there's no audio coming out of Steve's microphone Nope still no audio It was working in totally just started What is going on here? Did I mute you accidentally? No You mute me Accidentally. Oh Matt today. You what have you been doing? No, that's definitely was not my fault. That was definitely all your on your end Just unplugged it It's women you did it on purpose No, I have because the cable is so long my foot touched it. Oh, okay. All right Say about this. Are you trolling me? Okay, so and today I am Steve. Yeah, let's actually just start my name Let's just start over again That was hilarious the minute we start we it happens. This is gonna be a great episode guys. It's gonna be fantastic Yeah, yeah accidentally. That's exactly what it was All right. Hey everybody, welcome to the next cast. I'm your host Matt. I Am Steve. Hey, I'm my name today and he has actual audio. So that was good This is gonna be a train wreck guys. I'm just gonna warn you right off the bat I have I have come on. You have to admit a little bit of comedy in the in the podcast adds a lot of value I tell you everybody's watching this after those shows over Go come join us on a Saturday. Watch us live. The pre-show is fantastic We always do have a good time in the pre-show technical difficulties all over the place this week So we're just gonna cross the fingers comedy galore comedy galore comedy galore And since we're two old geezers today, we're not gonna understand anything from what we're gonna be talking about I'm not gonna understand anything. I'm gonna be talking about cuz one of my topics is related to something. I've never used. Oh Let's wing it baby. It's gonna be fun. All right, so This is the Linux cast we talk about Linux eat things is what we usually do and we absolutely have no tangents whatsoever I'm sure they will have fewer tangents this week than we normally have wait a minute Those statements didn't really go together. I said we don't have anything we don't we normally have some I don't know. We never have any tangents. Anyways, so we talked about the news on this podcast But before we do we're gonna talk about what we've done this week in open source. So Steve, what's you been up to this week? Boy? Okay, I've been up to a lot this week a lot of discussion in the Linux round, but I'm happy to announce after a lot of discussion now the zero Linux Team has a structure to it. We have Ripley who's responsible for who's going to be responsible for all The social media related stuff. So posting on YouTube Community posting on Twitter because I decided not to delete my Twitter but to transform it into zero Linux OP because somebody already took zero Linux and they're using it to call everybody homo But Yeah, he's gonna be responsible for that. We got the teddy who's responsible for the UI UX Side of things we have Gamer King who's gonna work on a new on a new spin zero Linux and What else do we have? Oh, we might we're in discussion. It's not finalized yet We might have a web developer joining the the team who's gonna revamp the zero Linux website And bring it up to modernization and we're gonna have a blog side of things where we're gonna announce things instead of only discord So I've been managing Half the week and the other half of the week we've been working on ideas on how to grow zero Linux Because yeah, it has reached a point where it has become boring. No changes are taking place. No major changes just for the hood fixes and tweaks we need the we're looking at various ideas to grow the project and financially make it viable So it's no longer a How do you call how did I call it a Side project or a passion project now. It's becoming it's sort of becoming trying to become a business kind of thing And I've been working on more scripts Because guess what the grub issue a new grub issue has Come through the cracks Now I have the task the ugly task of showing people how they can arch shrew Reinstall grub get their system to boot again. Thank you grub developers So and other than that trouble shooting most of the time trouble shooting and a reading But I've been up to I wonder why Arch always has so many problems with grub is like it's always having some arch It's not this time around. It's not arch, but it's only happening on art, right? a Thing is I went to the I went to the grub official website and I went to their Two tracker and the the issue that everybody's running into is has been reported over there and it's a confirmed bug in grub But the only way they can fix it the fastest is for reports to keep piling on By people but no one is reporting it Is bothering to report it so far. It's only one user and me We're only two people who have reported the bug everybody else just waiting it out waiting to For the fix to somewhat magically appear So until then I'm trouble shooting it helping users learn how to arch shrew But yeah, it's happening on arch because arch use the latest version that comes upstream. Yeah It's the nature of arch is how it works. So it's not arch is a problem if that's its nature from the from the get go. Oh Yeah, they pull from upstream directly to the user. They don't do anything on their end. Oh Yeah, and that issue has been has existed for two up two versions back-to-back our five 66 and our five nine one So far haven't fixed it Well, that's crazy. All right, so for me I've done many things so I guess the thing that I should talk about first is that I Was on Debbie in there for a long time and it was a really good distribution and then I had like 3000 Deb packages installed So I know so I was like, you know, what's the best way to kind of prune some of the stuff because I don't I mean It's it's it's weird that I had that many And I figured I had some flat packs too but anyways the Thing that I decided to do and this was stupid and completely new above me is I uninstalled plasma and If you've ever tried to uninstall plasma before it takes literally everything with it So I could have tried to fix it, but I just didn't have the time to do last night So I hopped what didn't hop it what I tried to do was we're just reinstalled Debbie I figured well, you know, I'll just reinstall Debbie and it'll be fine. Oh, that's when you had the USB error Yeah, I was getting some weird USB errors throughout the entire installation and it didn't stall But then it wouldn't actually and it booted and it got to the TTY But it kept showing errors over and over again even over the TTY. It was really weird I'm pretty sure it's my external hard drive is in the process of Exploding or something I don't know what I was going on every once in a while just completely falls off the rails and it's not connected at all So I think that that was the issue that I'm having there And it's also possible that I'm having some USB problems given the fact that I also just had some problems with my camera. So See this you see this external hard drive it can only be USB 3 This micro be whatever it's called it can only be that because it's soldered to the motherboard I cannot switch it and use it as an internal SATA drive This USB 3 drive is a two terabyte Drive element drive, which is the slowest WD external drive that exists. It's a thick boy And and and but I want to use it as internal. I cannot use it as internal So I use it as external and I drop this thing like a thousand times and it survived. It's a And it's been with me for I don't know seven years It's slow if I want to copy a file to it USB 3 it takes Approximately six to eight hours Yeah, I don't know what's actually going on with my USB stuff. It's something I'm kind of working on but anyways, I went to open back to open to the tumbleweed and Because I'm pretty sure I understand what I the problem was Happening when I had to hop away from before so that's kind of where I'm at right now I do still have Debbie installed on my other hard drive I'll still use that so I can finish the review. You like you like you like to To live in pain. You like to see your guts out of your body. I will use open Sosa. It's painful It's not painful, it's fine Updating is low Dipper why they called it zipper as they were thinking about their gene zipper there They're thinking hanging dingy dingy dongy outside. Why all right, Steve. I'm banning you stop that bullshit They call the zipper your gene zipper one. I don't know why they called the zipper. Why do they call it apt or pac-man or Backman is fun DNS. You know This is fun zipper are they talking about the tail between the legs? What is Why do I even do this? I get I get I get old jokes in my head. Um, all right Anyways, I went back to open Suiza. I'm pretty happy with it as a set up right now Not getting any of the arrows that I was getting before which is good Anyways, did that also I got a stream deck not a steam dick. I already had that but I have a stream deck now And there's you for that too. Yeah, I wanted to thank you for that. There's a Application called deckmaster that just makes it so good It's all I wish it was kind of a gooey for it But so but you use it through a configuration file instead and you can just basically create as many decks as you want and It's just so good. Um, so if you have a stream deck, I highly recommend deckmaster It's on the zero Linux repositories now because of you. Thanks Yeah, and then I'm really appreciative to those developers because they do package it in both Deb and RPM format So it's really easy to install if you're using a regular I thank the maintainer on the you are for making it available for us to build and host Yeah, it was on a or two. Yeah, so yeah, I've been playing around with that and I think the other thing that I've been doing is Finally transitioning away from Firefox on all of my machines. I'm now using Vivaldi on every machine that I have Who mates that one old geezer happy? Um There's still made me happy There are still things that are making me angry about it. So like if you there will always be a few things if you zoom in on a page It doesn't remember that zoom remember it. It doesn't remember that zoom level on that whole URL Which is just I don't under so that's a that's a chrome. That's in Chrome Okay, here's the thing you're talking about that issue and I'm talking about the opposite Issue it remembers the zoom and I don't want it to remember the zoom Apparently just for you. I have the opposite issue. I I zoom in I zoom in a lot on the a you are when I click the RSS feed to see all the updated packages On the you are but I am old. I cannot see such small tiny letters. So I make I zoom into a hundred and seventy five percent. I Close Vivaldi reboot the computer shut down the computer come back the next day open a you are is big I wish mine worked like that because What do we suffer the opposite thing? I don't know cuz the way mine works is is as go to a website and zoom in and then I Close this tab and go back to it. You know, it's like a little while later and it's back to the normal size now You can set a Zoom level for the entire thing I'm closing the tab I'm closing the entire browser with the page zoomed in and I reopened the browser it reopens the page zoomed in But if I close the tab I never tried Yeah, well, I mean, of course it remembers the zoom as long as the tab still open But if the if I close the tab and the back browser with the tab open, it's gonna remember it zoomed in Yeah, that's just okay So remembering zoom position when the tab is still open and that's just normal behavior I'd expect that to happen what I wanted to do. Yeah, I'm saying even if you close the browser, right? I know it's that's that's normal behavior Steve. It's supposed to do that. It doesn't every single browser It'd be silly if it if it if you close the and close the browser without closing the tab Well, yeah, but I don't This is a system why I think it's many different websites is what I'm saying when I go to something to read my eyes are crap I want the zoom to be a regular thing on that particular website But you can't if I set my zoom level browser wide to like 150 percent or whatever it ruins so many other websites that I don't want zoomed in like You know youtube or youtube studio, you know, I mean it just But one thing I need to point out. Did you notice one thing when you mentioned On fostered on when you mentioned an issue with vivaldi while mentioning the vivaldi handle Do you notice that without replying to you a few versions ahead They your issue gets addressed No, I haven't noticed that this Oh the tab the tab thing that the the tab stack That you complained about like it took them maybe a month or two But after two months they had it fixed I don't think that was because of of Massive I know I actually somebody else mentioned it other than you but I did report that bug actually On the bug tracker. What I love about the vivaldi People is when I mentioned them they reply to me They don't leave me in the dust and they Ah, he's just another guy. He's talking about bullshit. No, they reply to me. They tell me we're working on it Okay, so yes twig the vivaldi is proprietary. Uh, no, I don't care No, I don't care. Um, as long as it works for us. I use proprietary software all the time When the the software is good and it's better than the other thing So if it provides features that I want Then I will use it. Um, I'll have one thing to say about that uh The blind text Paid app I paid for it. I use it. It's a blind merge. Same thing. There's a lot of proprietary things that we have Sometimes we have to use like proprietary nvidia drivers Uh, if you want to go all libre with all libre mentality, go ahead use libre linux or whatever it's called arch version Libre version of art Go use that if you want to keep complaining about uh, this is closed source. Uh, this is closed source I want to fight this. Oh go to hell. Okay. Go to the libre Nobody's forcing you to to come and night about good luck getting it getting your system booting and functioning correctly So stop that bullshit with uh, with it's proprietary Do you have a good It gets my blood boiling when people start doing that Well, okay, so my opinion on the whole like I prefer I have I have a I have a open source preference. I prefer to use open source all the time and you're the same way, right? Um, yeah, and I I'd love to use firefox and I use firefox for ages It's a fine browser, but there are certain features in vivaldi that I really like and the biggest one is workspaces. It's fantastic Now I basically had the same Uh functionality on firefox, but it's not quite the same. So Basically, I had the workspaces in firefox, but without tab stacking so With the workspaces in vivaldi I can have separate workspaces. So like I have you know one for programming I have one That's the main place where it's just kind of a collect all I have one to do one. I have one for video ideas I have one for research and stuff like that. So I you know, I have all these workspaces But within those I can also have individual tag Tab groups within those so I can kind of really super organize all of my tabs now I This is only a feature that is worthwhile for people who have a ton of tabs Um, if you if you're the type of person only has like two or three tabs workspaces may be something that you like, but For me personally, I use a ton of tabs now Uh, I prefer I prefer to use open open source anything over proprietary, but when uh, I find the things that I need in a proprietary a proprietary version Let's say a browser for example I don't I don't close my mind and I say no I refuse. I refuse. I refuse I understand. We need to use the type using you know I use the tools for the job and get it done And if if something if a tool comes along that does it better, I'll use that thing now Exactly. There are certain exceptions to this like if windows did something better than linux So I'm sure there's something out there that windows does better than linux. I don't really know what it is I'm still not going to use the windows. So there are limits to my willingness to use proprietary software um so I but I I am not so Into the open source thing that I can't see the benefit. There's one thing I will admit that firefox has over Vivaldi is the performance of Airfox It's down is way better than Vivaldi Vivaldi when you start Having workspaces and a lot of tabs open it slows down it's no longer as fluid as Fast as when you first open the browser, but firefox magically stays Fluent and you can drag the window no matter how many tabs you have it's still fluid And everything I haven't had any problems with it slowing down and I have a ton of tabs open so Maybe that's something slows down to a lot, but you notice It it's no longer as fluid as when you first opened it Whereas firefox stays as fluid as when you first opened it with zero tab Maybe I'll have to I noticed that at least on my system. I don't know. I have 32 gigs of ram and uh Yeah, 600x All right, let's go ahead and upgrade to the 5800 x3d one day I I don't think I will be upgrading my computer for quite some time. I just bought a brand new gpu I have the 3800x Oh, so you have the one above mine. Yeah, um, I'll probably stay there for Three or four more years at least probably longer The problem is I never I don't tax the cpu that I have so I'm here. I'm just it's just a Mental thing a mental thing. I want the newest like if I get oh not newest it's just A placebo thing maybe I'll be able to build zero Linux faster Yeah, um, you can always try to get yourself a like a m2 mac or something those things compile crap like Look at me split When I can afford a mac I can afford a better cpu and a motherboard and ram Yeah, I know Anyway, let's go ahead and jump into the news. I'm gonna go ahead and go first this week because I never go I never go first Um, I think I get to go to get to go first and I think we might as well just start off with the big one so ubuntu 23.10 will be not using Uh debt packages inside of the software center anymore, um now I don't making it proper making uh Making snaps above Much less depth. They'll be using snaps As the default from here on out on in their software center now uh, yes the There's been a lot of foot about this, but I also Want to say this about this This is was I mean this was so obvious. They're always going to do this Um, there there was never they were never ever going to not do this and eventually I think that they really do want to get completely rid of, um Debs completely it wouldn't surprise me It's gonna be a debian thing only Yeah, well, I mean like it's it really wasn't surprised because they really are all in on snaps. So Um Let's see if we can see what they're saying. So the the It's a non goal to try and present devs and snaps as two options for the same app doing what is hard is Hard to get right in restrict design choices in other areas. I don't Um dev support will land later because resources are always tight. Finally nothing here stops users from installing applications the the old-fashioned way So in other words opening the terminal and installing it that way Using apps Yeah, um, the problem is of course is that those the the terminal way is also sometimes Going the snap direction as well. So if you want to install chromium or firefox or something like that You can't install just the dev package because it doesn't exist, you know You have to install snap for you even if you've been uninstalled snap That's the reason why linux mint threw a fit right because because the chromium package or whatever Had snap d is a hard dependency, which is you know Shady, I think it's a little shady, but that's that's an old story. That's from like five years ago at this point But the the new the new software center is going to be flutter based. So they somebody some community member created this and then Ubuntu adopted it And it will allow you to install dev versions, but it will it will default to the snap Uh package first users can use and users can use it Now it's on the on the edge channel You have to install it as a snap because Wow, uh, yeah, but it's on the edge channel. You can install it, but they warn you it's still buggy Uh, but yeah, it's already available The thing about this is that it does basically mean that devs aren't going to be used instead of the software center at all because You and I know about that little drop-down thing there at the top, you know, we we know about that us nerds But the vast majority of normies out there Never looked up there like install install. It's just installing it They don't know the difference between one or the other And they're just that means that they're gonna Be on and they're gonna wonder why is why the app is taking so long to Why is my computer so slow? now I will say in snaps defense and you guys never hear me say anything in snaps defense hardly ever Uh, it is faster than it used to be still slow But it's faster than it used to be Well the loop devices and there's compressing and decompressing and all this stuff they they switch for different, uh They switched to like zt zstd year. I don't I don't know it I don't know zstd. Uh zstd is is used by arch all the packages and Default washfs for when you're building an arch iso as well But uh, it tends to be on the uh, um, it's so compressed that sometimes Feel applications taking a while to yeah, I don't know if that's actually what they switched I know they switched to a different compression algorithm or whatever it's called I think it's that std. Um, but whatever they switched to supposedly was what was gonna make a Faster. Um, and the thing is that it They only ended up doing that because of the firefox snap because the firefox snap was so slow people actually complained about it, right? Um and because The browser is the primary thing that people use You know, yeah The browser is the primary thing that people use and therefore they are going to notice when that is slow Uh, if you if if the calculator slow I mean, how often you open the calculator, right? You know, so it's it's definitely not oops But anyways, it's definitely not, you know, as slow as it used to be but it's you know I don't know. Well snaps uh snaps are getting better I'm gonna put this out there snaps are getting better because I have a vm that I test That I test snaps on I don't know why I'm a masochist, but uh, I'm curious I want to see when they get fixed. Uh, there are some snaps that used to take what up to five eight seconds to load Now they take one one and a half seconds So they're working on it. They're taking all this feedback and and everything but I haven't seen someone so all in into Into something like you want to with snaps. Well, it's because it's theirs, right that they want They really they really believe I was gonna say they really want that control But what they really want is they are what they really believe is that snaps are the better way of doing it Not only for the end user, but for the developers maintaining the package because it's easier to Package, you don't have to worry about, you know dependency hell and all this stuff, right? Um and Fanboy which you know, I kind of am but it doesn't mean that I can't see the flaws in flat pack The flat pack has flaws, right? It takes up an inordinate amount to mention that in a bit Like it takes up a lot of disk space a lot of times the updates come in a little bit wonky Also, it doesn't do a good job at package dependency management as snaps does because you still have to install like if you install Basically anything Relating to gtk with through a flat pack. You're also going to get a whole bunch of genome dependency flat packs to go along with it So even if you only have one you've only installed one flat pack You'll probably have at least four because it's also installs extra stuff The thing I was going to mention is related to that is I had a user on my on my discord Was like I install I installed everything as a flat as a flat pack But for some reason I have 15 different NVIDIA things trying to update and each one is over 300 megabytes in size I'm worried about disk space Like each application uses a different version of the nvidia driver. So you Minimum you're gonna end up with uh sometimes For each application There are three applications that use the same version of the driver instead of downloading the driver once it downloads it three times This is bad package management on the flat pack developer side. Well, it's just the way they've chosen to do it Which is fine, but it looks weird Um also and for me for me for a user like me who has a very slow internet compared to the outside world When I see six nvidia updates, I'm like, yeah, that's gonna take a week Well, I mean that's even here where I have good internet the the Download speeds are slow Um, it's not it's not it's not fast. So every time somebody use the http not the http s Yeah, there are tons of flaws with flat packs just like there's tons of flaws with snaps What would be great if those two teams could you know? I don't know and haven't Have a franken baby. Yeah work together and put these things together and make one thing That's actually good take the benefits of snap the benefits of flat pack and just combine together This brings me to a question. I want to ask the users in chat. I don't have youtube open I avoid that because I don't want to slow my internet down but I have a question to the users in chat and to you matt Do you think do you think Flat back the way it's going To reach a point where We'll replace regular package distro specific package managers or that we will always have distro specific package managers and flat back and snaps and Whatever, we're always going to have distro specific package managers. I think now I think the flat pack will continue to get very popular. I think the I think as immediately we're gonna be the default. It's never gonna be the the only one out there It's gonna be okay. So it's it's going to be the default on certain distros So like if you're installing silver blue or kina white or vanilla os or You know, uh, open susa's aion or whatever it's called now You know if you install an immutable distro, then flat pack is going to be the thing, right? And but Those distributions are going to be for certain types of users who aren't interested in exploring other more esoteric packages, right? So well, I have to disagree on that front because For the reason you gave the the idea you gave is correct. But the reason for that is is kind of There's another reason for which we're gonna always have distro specific package managers is because there are some packages That cannot be packaged as flat back. Okay. So if you let me continue, I was actually going to say that um Like I said, if you're if you're going for more esoteric packages, but also libraries and stuff like that for certain and system development packages and obviously I don't I'm not a developer, but I'm I I'd be mightily surprised if systemd could be a flat pack or a snap I'd be very surprised if you could do it Well, if you see what ubuntu are doing Ubuntu are able to to package the printer Fiverr as well. Yeah. Yeah, they're doing cups, but I don't I don't think that they can that means flat back can figure out a way to Penangal something I'm just I'm just not sure the systemd itself could be a containerized package. Um I'm just I'm just I'm not sure that that's technologically possible Like at all I wish I wish I don't know what the even if it was possible What would be the benefits of having systemd as is a containerized package? You know, um, you have to manage permissions and for systemd itself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I just like I said, I just don't think it's possible And even if it was why would you do such a thing and another another thing Although if you think about it, if if let's just say let's just say systemd was possibly containerized like that Uh, it would also at least theoretically make it possible Make it easier to switch out with a different in-it system if other in-it systems were also containerized Um, but again, I don't think it's possible Like if you wanted to use run it or open rc, um, but that'd be like for like six people, you know No, but another thing with the with with flatbacks is Uh, um, there's a nightmare and and a half Which I simplified on zero linux, but For the regular users using Regular distros It's not going to be very easy. It's I'm making flatbacks use the system thing If you're using at white or dark, it's going to work because White or dark everything uses at white or dark, but Uh, if if they are on kde, for example on plasma or on xfce Getting flatbacks to to use the system theme You have to go through hoops There's a guide It's false It's a long one. So you have to jump into hoops to get flatbacks just to use the system theme Uh, some apps have their own dark theme whatever, but it's never the the same theme as your system theme If you're using something from playing or a u r or whatever You have to jump into hoops to get it to work with flatback. That's not fun because They used to have allow flatbacks to have access to user share themes They removed that capability completely now the only themes flatback can use are themes inside your dot themes in your home directory But you have to tell it to do that you have to set the system override for flatbacks Not a fun thing. They definitely need to fix that but they need to unify that and fix that thing Yeah, so there's many Good There's many different. So that's the reason why you know We always talk about snaps versus flatbacks and and somebody in the chat said You know, if that's the only way to do it. I'm gonna buy a mac book. Well, first of all, I mean If you don't think max gonna go towards containerized stuff Also, it's probably already doing it. Um No mac, that's what they do it's containers Right, so the mac apps are containers. Um, well, I mean they're bringing an ios and they have ios and ipad apps on mac and all those are containerized So, um, it's definitely gonna happen That stuff is going to happen But to answer your question steve. No, it's definitely not going to to remove the need for distro specific package managers because Even beyond the things that you mentioned There are always going to be distro specific packages that you might need to be able to install, you know Things things if they go flatback. I wouldn't need to host any packages on my repo anymore You know, you know things related to pac-man on arch things related to zipper and Uh, virtualization and stuff like that, you know downloading a All the dependencies and stuff to go with kvm and q emu, you know All that stuff is going to always be in a in a regular distro repository. I think It's gonna because a lot of the most painful packet one of the most painful packages to install the q emu full Yeah, it's actually easier on arch on on open susa. It is not easy yet Have to use the the the terminal version of yast in order to get there And and that is like the regular version of yast the gooey version is not bad. It has a whole bunch of features you know, it's antiquated and all that stuff but the the terminal version of yast is Not good, but when it you install the kvm and and q emu q emu stuff from yast 2 in the terminal It only installs about half the stuff. It doesn't install libvert d demon So the service isn't actually available for you to even start you have to go install that yourself Uh, and then there's a whole bunch of other stuff You actually have to get do in order to get yourself your your virtualization stuff up and running You have to add yourself to the group. Which usually, you know, that is a you know, it's just one extra step on arch, but the meta package that I created for zero linux after I don't know three days of Testing I created a meta package that installs the full thing everything Like 600 megabytes plus. Yeah, there's a lot of packages And starts adds the u the user to the correct group libvert d libvert group and starts the libvert Demon service whatever and All you have to do is reboot the computer and start the the network All you have to do Um, that's what I spent my morning doing was to be able to do that If it was only flatbacks, we don't we can't do all that stuff. Yeah. All right. Anyways, steve your first link My first link is a very simple link. Uh, it's kd plasma more wayland fixes kd plasma wayland fixes severe screen distortion for some multi gpu system And when I read the title I was like who still uses sli Multi gpu system as in yeah integrated gpu and uh and dedicated. Oh that that's good Yeah, I thought about that too. It was like people still use bridges and stuff for their their gpu's Like that's the thing for a hybrid laptops. Oh, yeah makes that makes way more sense And they updated the the breeze cursor theme I didn't I didn't think that cursor themes needed updating That's not important. Why is that important? All right keyboard shortcut to trigger Yeah, okay, go ahead Pull in the chat and in the comments if you're watching afterwards How many people have actually changed their cursor thing from whatever the default is? Oh, okay Um, I don't think I've changed my cursor theme in probably 30 years. Um, they'm here I use the breeze theme Whatever the default is that's what I use Exactly. I actually want to change that's actually a lie Okay, because there was a distribution that I tested. I don't remember what it is It was like maybe 4m linux or something like that It's one of those really rare distros that I made a video on And that video that distro comes with like a bright red cursor out of the box And I had to change that. Yeah So I think it's peppermint OS. It wasn't it peppermint OS. I I don't know It was one. No, I think it was smaller than peppermint OS. It was one of those. It doesn't matter Um, but it came with a bright red cursor. I had to turn that off and actually Yeah, I would have done the same thing. It was just really bad. So What whatever the default is I stick with I don't need to change My my cursor theme because I saw some people some some people who are using um woo woo Woo woo cursors, you know with the woo woo little thing next to the to the cursor whenever it's processing something Like, uh, that stuff is too young for me. I I don't I don't know. I don't know what hey that means Get off my lawn Anyway, I used to do that on windows to be honest on windows because the default cursor on windows sucks like crap used to use A cursor that was a like a pen the gear at the at the end of it I love that cursor. I used it for many many many many years, but it was a big cursor So you could see it like from like 20 feet away. Yeah, I have to do that for my mom I have to change the windows cursor so that it's like super big because she was always losing it Yeah, and I like that feature in mac when you shake the mouse very fast. It grows to show you where the mouse is Oh, that's cool. That's a bad feature. Um, anyway, hey, we just we just praised mac All right, let's go ahead and move on to the contact information If you want to get contact with us You can do so in any number of ways the best way to do so is head on over to the website Which is linuxcast.org there you'll find previous episodes all the way back to season one As along with all the blog posts that I post which is you know A few Every now and then I try to do every week, but I don't I don't succeed every week I have another one that that's in process of being written Don't ask where that process is the document is open. I guess it's In process But anyways, that's where you can find all of that stuff You can follow steve on youtube at youtube.com slash zero Zero linux zero with an x not a z You can follow You can subscribe to the linuxcast at youtube.com slash linuxcast You can Support me on patreon patreon.com slash linuxcast. We have discord servers and macedon and there's a new matrix server All those links and stuff will be on the website the linuxcast.org slash contact there You'll find other links for steve as well Including his discord server and his website links to zero linux and all that stuff All on my website the linuxcast.org slash contact And I think that that's it. It feels like a really short A contact information because we're missing two people, but you know, it's fine Um, it was also really kind of hard to do because I was like, I was like, hey Where's tyler and josh? Anyways, there's a gen two and I I I borked linux guys. Yeah Well, I took care of the borking of linux this time. Um, and no, I didn't even consider installing gen two I didn't sell gen two in distro box yesterday though Um, that was really easy. I watched your distro box video now and um, um, you know I don't know remember last week when I told you I I turned everything into a bass grip. Yeah First thing I when I first started watching your video at like minute two or Three minutes because you were praising it for a while I did that for five minutes so I was like What if I wrote a bass grip for zero linux that installs and takes care of the basics of distro box so users can can Launch the distro box terminal select which Which one they want and it will run the command for the user instead of the user having to go to the website copy paste the link and whatever If you end up thinking Bass script wise if you end up brain was you end up doing that check out the command distro box assemble It basically allows you to create a config file of different images that you want and then when you run that It will install those images Um, so you could create a config file ahead of time with all the images you wanted to create in your bass script and it would just With one command run all of them install all of them and it'd be done. No, but my idea my idea is along the lines They're it's a button in my tool. They click it for distro box. It says it will say hello Name of the user which which which distro do you want to install via distro box? That's cool to like Uh gen 2 they select fedora. They select whatever Whichever one they select it will do all the back end stuff for them That'd be cool. All right, let's go ahead and move on to the news. Um, I'll do the My second one which is we're going ahead and back to Ubuntu land because canonical just can't stop pissing people off Uh, uh, this so this was the week that I think pretty sure that uh, The canonical decided they're just going to do a news dump of all their stuff that they just knew we're going to make You're not the only one. You're not the only one. I just watched the linux experiments The news video it was all about ubuntu. Yeah, well ubuntu is like I said, they just dropped all their stuff so they're so About three years ago, maybe four years ago or so they created an option in their installer That allowed Users to select a minimal install and basically all it would install was the stuff you needed including like a browser and stuff Okay, it wouldn't install any of the other genome packages It wouldn't install anything extra And uh, it was a very popular install option because it basically allowed people to use the desktop version of ubuntu But without all the cruft that she gave you installed the like the two or three gigabyte iso, right? Well that option is going away um Now if you just what read joey's article to like the halfway point Uh, if you're not one of those people who don't read all the way to the end you'd you'd probably pretty like why are they doing this? This doesn't make any sense, but apparently their plan is to go full on arco linux I doubt that they go that far, but apparently they're creating a more Modular installer which will basically allow users to select what they want installed along the way now Did you just say both arco linux? Full arco linux, you know, like when you install arco I got what you meant, but I was like did I hear arco linux? Hey, eric. He mentioned you mentioned your thing Well, I could have mentioned zero linux, but we did do that. We do that a lot I don't care about zero linux. Who does that? What a schmuck And anyways, I doubt that they go that far like you're not going to be able to select something other thing, you know But you'd be able to know no no no no I'm interesting just I don't The question I have for for this is do you think steve that ubuntu users and this is going to sound very condescending to ubuntu users Do you think that ubuntu users really want that level of granularity where they get to choose? The packages that they want to install or would they much be happier with just a One or the other? surprisingly enough, there's a lot of ubuntu users who I see them a lot on various the various discord servers It's it's I see it very often where they say we wish we had the granular granularity that some arch distros offered Yes, because But ubuntu used to do I don't know if they still do it. I haven't installed ubuntu in like 10 years but the what they used to do is When you select install whatever that the online checkbox is during the uh installer Uh, what was it called the ubiquity installer? It's uh They check the box it will install stuff download stuff and install them on from online You ended up with a a lot of fluff But you had zero control over what it was downloading and what it was installing at all It installs everything and then it's up to the user to start removing whatever they didn't need The fluff they didn't need there's a lot of complaints about there was a lot of complaints about that Now when they decided to to give users more granularity I saw people say uh, I not I didn't they didn't say anything. You know the modicons the Reactions you can do on on discord to announcement For the news article for that one on my server at least it was it I have 666 numbers on my server. I hate that number But uh Out of 666 there was uh 300 thumbs up on on that article alone Yeah, so that goes to show you that people are looking for more freedom on ubuntu That surprises me a little bit, but not too much. But I'm actually more interested in so You said you haven't installed ubuntu in a while basically the if they still do this I'm I'm pretty sure they still do is when you choose the minimal install they actually install everything And then they uninstall it right during the same process So you have to actually download everything and then they go through the process of actually uninstalling all the things that they install So by being more gradual granular about it. I think that they'll do it what I'm very interested to find out is when this happens Is what how how far are they going to go with it? Yeah, what options are they actually going to give because think about what I mean Are they going to give you options between like Firefox and chromium are those going to be the options that you're going to have? They're not going to give you environments or window managers. Um, I mean is this a So Probably three or four months back We were talking about some kind of news item regarding ubuntu and I talked about how It'd be interesting to see And ubuntu iso That allowed you to basically install any of the flavors right right during install right? Oh my god And we talked about how Horrible that experience would be for people who you know don't have good internet because you'd have to download everything Because there's no way you can have a ISO that that's big but The counter argument to that was the arco does it, you know, you know If you but the problem with in a way in a way not directly, right? But it also allows you the the other problem, of course is that you give people The more complicated you make your installer and ubuntu is meant for new users, right? It's meant for newer Linux users it so I wonder if As this matures and more options are added Would they do go the continue to to emulate arco linux and have two different installers? Like, you know how arco has the the beginners installers and they have a bigger advanced one Yeah, um, I don't think that they'd start out with that but it'd be interesting to see I'm just very curious to see what options they actually give you. I am curious as well because Here's the here's the thing. There's a now now zero next. We have a team. We discuss things now We no longer decide anything before discussing it Before discussing it There's an idea on the table Which says what if How eric calls it it's a what if sorry eric i'm i'm taking your thing um So what if that we had and that what if it was What if we had a minimal ISO for zero linux and that's before I read the article Uh, what if we had a minimal ISO that allowed users to pick and choose whatever they want it What if they want the uh, the kde version of zero linux uh xfce the gnome and with what packages do they want to include They want to include fire uh firefox or vivaldi or uh fireworks. Sorry about that Uh, uh, do they want vivaldi or firefox or do they want the chromium, etc, etc So we're working on this. It's an idea on the table. We're not working on it yet But it's an idea on the table. It's a suggestion You know, there's at least one person in the chat probably saying what you know what you guys are Explaining you're explaining nixos You know because the nixos allows you to to put all of your things you want to create the configuration file Yeah, and all that jazz for what we were thinking is on the simpler Oh, I'm sure I'm just saying that that's the whole concept behind nixos Is that you choose all the packages you want and then it installs from the configuration file No, the idea also, uh came came from we need to stop using color mark Uh color mark is and plus if we had a minimal iso, they will because if we we had An iso with a live environment with a desktop and everything If you install, uh, you should let's say we had one with kde and the user selected Gnome will end up with gnom and kde mixed together Uh, I'm sure there are complicated other ways to end up with one desktop environment But it's it's it's very too complex too complicated That way it will allow the user to select whatever version they will only end up with Version they selected without any fluff without any duplicated packages and like that and We seriously need to start moving and everybody All the distros that are using color maris. They need to stop using color maris because color maris is now fragmented it's as fragmented as there are as There are distros because each distro makes color maris Uh color maris the app. I'm not talking about the config the config is a different thing The config is what makes uh customizes color maris to each distros need The color maris application itself is becoming uh fragmented because This distro is using these modules that distro is using these modules And then the color maris app the code itself is being modified from the ground up differently by each distro No longer a single app. It's a million versions of the of the color maris app with a million different config No longer unified as a single app that uses plugins Customized by each and every distro to suit their need The app itself being modified as well as it's add-on plugin Oh, um, we need to move away. Everybody needs to move away from color maris. It's too fragmented Nobody is willing to help no one the answer you're going to get on the color maris community is I want to write the program for you. It's not my job. So, um Yeah, but we need to to start working on simpler ways simpler not Very simpler is weird because it's tty tty. It's not very simple but different ways To install to create distros To install distros not color maris color maris is not the answer It was for a long time, but not anymore. All right, let's go ahead move on to the last one for the day solis linux. So steve take us away This is an article that would have been talked about by uh, josh yeah Josh did a lot for solis and he got banned by solis, but hey Come on. Who hasn't even been banned by Well, anyway solis just got solis 4.4 finally got released, but it's not a major release It's just a it's just uh, they added the enabled zram Uh, they added p6 support for wayland It's on the way What they're saying is wayland support wayland support will be fully integrated in solis, but not Maybe not, uh, they will completely switch to wayland in version 11. Oh my god version 11 is how many years away? No, all right, so I started using linux full-time in 2017. I talked about this in a blog post recently Maybe it was even a video. I don't remember my first my first um distro When I came back to linux in 2017 was ubuntu budgie at that point they were on version 10 Point something and they were already talking then about version 11 That has been six years ago And they're still talking about version 11. Okay But don't forget the hiatus and the issues they suffered for two years Gimp 3.0 will come before solis 11 guaranteed. I mean, I would bet $10,000 in crypto That that happens um I'm sure that the Solis guys are great, and I'm sure they had a good reason for banning josh. I don't know what that reason actually was but I will say that I don't trust them to do Anything significant like it just feels like they're in a holding pattern. They keep coming up with different plans um I think that I think Ike Ike is back with the project now and the guy who does budgie is back with the project now so They're doing a whole transition from Their independent thing that they're doing now moving it over to serpent os Which is Ike's project And They have this whole thing It's gonna take it's gonna take a long time. I don't know. I said gimp will arrive before I don't think it's gonna happen I I Do you think do you think the the the project is clinging it's clinging for dear life? Well, I think I'm I'm surprised. I'm surprised that there is another version because like a half a Six months ago or whatever they said that was basically there was never going to be another one. They didn't own the Servers or whatever that was you being used to distribute their isos or whatever and the person who did own them Walked away from the project so they didn't have access to any of that stuff So they had to do a whole bunch of switching. It's amazing how many times that happens That's actually happening to Qtile right now. Hey, Nate. Thanks for the super chat. I appreciate that Um The So it's happening to Qtile somebody Owned their domain and that person walked away and went completely AWOL. So they've had they've been struggling with their documentation Um Server for weeks and weeks now that hasn't come back. So it's amazing how often that happens But the whole budgie thing The thing about budgie and we're not even really talking about the version Um, it's just that they've come up with so many different plans Budgie was a part of the project and it wasn't part of the project But now the guy who does budgie is back with the project and they have these really grand plans for version 11 But version 11 keeps moving further and further away the more plans that they're making because not only are they um And by the way when we say version 11 what we mean is version 11 of budgie Not version 11 of solas solas is at 4.4. Um, but the the whole budgie thing And solas are very interconnected and they really always have been even though they're now split projects. It's just a mess for me and It is a mess because i'll have you i'll i'll have everyone know that It did install solas 2.4 Some of their gtk apps are still using Home 3.38 apps Some odd and unexplained reason. I I opened an app randomly. I was like about it told me 3.38. I was like what What in the name of They are using such old The the budgie the budgie guys have a very acrimonious. I think that's the right word of relationship with gtk and genome And that's the reason why they're moving to the efl libraries or the efl libraries, right the light and libraries It's too many too many mixed applications got 3.38 4.0 4.3 4.2.1 for it's It's a franken distro at this point Use one library. Why are you using three four different libraries? Because they can yeah yeah, the thing is though the the plans that they have right now are very much subject to change and I When I use a distribution, I want to be able to trust the developers and even And it doesn't have to mean like they have to be like a huge, you know Corporation for me to trust them. That's usually goes the other way. I don't trust them if they're a major corporation All of that you cannot trust zero linux, right? It's just I want to have three air of zero linux is telling telling matt not to trust zero. Yeah, that creator of zero linux total douchebag um Hey ross b. Thanks for the super chat. I'm glad you like snaps use flat pecs instead But seriously, uh, I don't I don't I don't even trust my own distro Even though I'm working on it because I don't have the knowledge to if I if one day I reached a catastrophic Thing I won't know how to fix it So let's actually let's talk about this for a second the because you run a small distribution um over the years You you've you've seen this as a linux user The the smaller distributions have a much more likely chance of eventually not being updated any longer like the developer loses You know interests, you know, they get a job, you know where they can no longer spend, you know time, you know Like they go work for apple or something like variables. Yeah, many variables. So that just happens Um, what do you think are the like the responsibilities of the small distro maintainer to to their users if that kind of thing happens? like do they have A responsibility to kind of try to pass the project along or to keep it in like maintenance mode or What do you what do you think on that? No, no, don't don't if you want to go maintenance mode They're just yank the plug uh Because everything is rolling especially since uh Some distributions are rolling releases like arch Yeah, better yank the plug but the responsibility is Move it along fit to somebody who can continue maintaining it or shut shut the plug pull the plug You have two choices you either With or announce that it's dead and tell recommend users move away from it and things like that only those two anything in between is unnecessary Like in my case, I will I will I'll be frank with everyone Uh I'm gonna make a standalone video about that at some point But to be frank with you guys Zero Linux is not gonna be Uh By me forever At some point it's gonna exchange hands if it can't exchange hands. I prefer to shut it down But i'm working very hard on not shutting it down yet. I prefer to continue working on it because I don't have no life Only thing that keeps me going every every morning is zero when I find a job and Forbid get married I said god forbid Oh, uh, if I get married or or find a job or start my continue my life resume my real life Uh, zero linux is going to be on the back burner. It's going to be just another thing that I enjoy from time to time working on It's no longer going to be on the forefront so, uh I will be at that point I will be looking for someone to either continue the project change the project Do whatever they want with the project, but keep the name zero linux alive Uh, if not, I'm gonna shut it down. I'm gonna Push a message on the worldwide web telling people move away from zero linux. So next is no more Fun because I cannot do my job and work on zero linux in a serious fashion All the time I prefer concentrating on my real life and my job because I ain't no if you if you didn't if you didn't notice I ain't young no more You are Am I am I goatee? so, uh, yeah The responsibility of the of the distro maintainer is to continue maintaining the distro for as long as they can And when they feel that they can they can no longer do it is handed off to someone else Priority is handing it off Someone else if they want to keep the name alive. Otherwise just Dance and pull the plug Don't leave it alive and maintenance mode because Oh my lord, I paused zero linux for a short while Uh, here, uh, I'm gonna mention something and I don't mean it in a bad way, but Hiroshima all over again Too soon Avoid that avoid that avoid that with as much as you can Don't put it in maintenance mode. Users are gonna scream and come at you with pitchfork Gonna back you're gonna go back to the 1700s. Yeah, all right. Well, I'm glad we had that little conversation Let's go ahead and move on to the thingies the week So this is the last section of the show where we do this every single week We could have called any number of things apps of the week picks the week We called it the thingy diggin diggin lingey in the between the legs See he always takes it to the it wasn't meant to be dirty it was It was meant to be dirty. You didn't mean for it to be dirty. Okay. No, um Anyways, so the we we select things that we're interested in and then we share them with the other so today Steve what is your thingy of the week? If desktop Desktop is an application. I went to flat hub was like, I need to add more flatbacks to my tool Because it's very bare bones right now It only has a thousand packages in there. I need more like 2500 Uh, I went on flat hub and I was scrolling scrolling scrolling for like 20 30 minutes and I saw something called save desktop What the fuck is that well Let me tell you it saved my life Uh It saves your desktop settings. It saves your installed flatbacks Hmm Not all of them. Uh, for some reason it doesn't detect everything Oh, why? Uh, for example obs it only detects obs but not the plug-in So the plugins are were installed as flatbacks Hey, uh Reported it to the developer. I'm still waiting on a fix Uh But it allows you to save your theming icon themes your desktop theme your whatever with the exception of kvantum It doesn't save the kvantum Well for q for people on kde it's More targeted towards gtk Basically, you know Then uh, then kde It works very well on xfce since xfce is gtk Uh for window managers Not many are listed in the supported ones If I actually don't see any no No, no window managers, uh because window managers are way too complex Too many configuration Liter okay, I don't know. Hold on a second hold on. There's another place call a configuration file all over the place Fight me. No, it literally one configuration file. That's all you have That's all there is one configuration file xfc has like 12 different configuration files all of the place to way more complex than a window manager Configuration files that users have to write configure by writing words one one Configure all of them are one not all of them are one Okay, I'm trying I'm trying to think of Open box possibly might have two because you'd have the menu and the config file for the sim so that would have two That's bspwm could you could have would have two but i3 has one Xmonad has one q tile has one dwm for the theming for the theming you can control theming with one configuration file Well, I mean you can't control this. I mean if you're talking about like for g2k and stuff like that It had controls g2k and qt in the same way that ganome and xfc do um G settings, I don't know the to be on the serious note I don't know why they don't support where wm's but probably because it's probably here to be more on your side um, you don't really need this for a Windo manager most windo manager users back up their systems to their configuration files to get and just pull It right back down to get so But this this is more talking to towards desktop environments Or gtk based desktop environments then although they list plasma all the way at the bottom I saw that uh, yeah all the way at the bottom. They're like Oh cute Uh, I tried it on plasma. I didn't save everything unfortunately, but when I tried it on gnom food It's like one you reinstall your system install this app Restore your of course it backs up a zip file All the settings and the deconf and everything you click one button You're loading the file you click one button You're back where you left off before they're restoring your system extensions and everything Extensions well extent Extension configurations. No, uh, oh, yeah extensions as well. Sorry extensions as well because they're saved in if you download them via the Uh extensions doc gnome.org. They're in dot local for slash No, if you use the the extension manager, it doesn't What what does the extension manager The gnome extension manager is an app you get from flat pack that allows you to install stuff without having to install a browser plugin Oh, yeah, yeah, the What I meant was if you if you install them as a user Not as packages from the a u r or okay. Yeah, that makes sense or whatever Go into your home directory dot local chair, uh gnome shell extension Uh, so as long as they they are in there it backs them up Because it has access to your home directory Well, it backs up extensions extension settings since the extension settings are in a decon file Uh Backs up your wallpaper any additional wallpapers you you added your everything all the settings. It's like you never left Amazing. It's a it's a cool little app. It's very small. It's like if it's a megabyte or something That's um, no that that sounds like a really cool Thing and I might use it for xfc, but I never it still would not get me to use gnome. Um, so no, but worked for xfce wonderfully, but for kde Some reason although the settings for latte doc are inside dot config A folder called latte Wasn't backing up latte doc setting It it it was like i'm bypassing that. I don't know what latte is No, it only sees uh kde panel settings. It only sees kde related stuff Anything if you're using a third party widget or a third party doc or a third party something on kde doesn't back up It's hard-coded in there. What it uh, it backs up. It reminds me of config saver Uh that existed but then died on plasma uh It works for g for any g any gtk based desktop environment. That's very good and that makes users lives So much easier And you can upload I uploaded my uh my backup to to my uh to my host to my server like that I have a offline backup because I I format that You know hard drive a lot because I need to test for Linux on parametal as as many times as possible to make sure it works But uh, yeah, it's a neat little utility. I recommend it to anyone who's on gnome Xfce, but if you're uh on kde, don't use it Well, maybe maybe they'll get it to work better in the path in the future. All right, so mine Yeah, mine. I'm not gonna spend too much time on mine because I just made a whole video about it yesterday But I just want to reiterate if you haven't tried distro box Download it and try it out. It is the coolest thing ever So like like I said it in the pre-show I installed gen 2 yesterday in distro box. It took three minutes Um Really? Yeah, it took three minutes Is it just the installation of gen 2 or installing it configuring it and Well, it just installs gen 2 and then you can install all your packages that you want to install So I installed neo fetch and took a I took a screenshot of neo fetch Um, so you can install whatever you want. I have a question for you. Have a question for you before you continue I have a question for you uh The when uh, when you want to run a uh a window manager or a desktop info. Can you can you install desktop? full desktop environments as Containers UI desktop environment so with the menus you can but it's not as easy as using a window manager because a lot of the desktop environments rely on Certain system d things being in place in the in the right places and Distro box does not have control over system d. It does not have its own in-it system It uses the hosts in this system. So it has access to services But it doesn't have access to the entire system d stack. So basically you can install You you can Example if I want to install debian with kde I am on kde already It uses my kde settings The debian kde distro box that I installed it would use any kde settings that are in your home directory because it shares a home directory So if it's the settings are in The root directory anywhere it would use the ones from the container. The bigger question is Since on debian kde is older than the the kde on your host system, for example Wouldn't that cause version discrepancy? It's possible That that some of the configuration files and stuff like that would not work So you in that case you can create a distro box with its own home directory And then when you install packages it uses its own stuff. So you then you have your own home You can give the distro The distro box that you install its own home directory inside your home directory Yeah, it's it just if you just use the when you do distro box create You just do dash dash home and it creates its own home directory for that particular container a home directory inside a home directory I'm not sure actually where stores it. So don't quote me that it's in the home directory But it does create it um the other the other issue with desktop environments is that it has some debus issues So I installed xfce and installed fine and everything but I could not get it to launch because of some debus issues Now I didn't have I didn't have a chance to um Troubleshoot that before I messed up my my debian install So I still have to play around with that but in theory. Yes, it is possible to do It's just not as easy as is to win with window managers They don't have any expectations over hardly anything because they're just window managers, right? So they're not they're not expecting you can have you can install hyperland for example Yeah You could you could you can you can you can install hyperland as long as your display manager will Boot into a Waylon session, which is most of these days. Yeah Because you're still you're still gonna you're still gonna be using that stupid sddm That's why I switched to light dm. It just works better. Um, I like dm is good I thought about dm doesn't give it doesn't give a hoot what the What you're trying to do just says okay log in. Yep Um, anyways, yeah distro box. It's amazing I've only sort of kind of really scratched the surface of the surface of the things that you can do with it But and and I won't continue to sing as praises every week, but definitely listen Listen, can you try it? Can you do me a favor? Can you do me a favor? Sure? You do all of us a favor Do the josh thing for uh distro box But what do you mean the josh thing? You like break it Long long long ass Out to video Oh, yeah, I don't There's not I don't A lot of the features all all the options all the features all the things make it a 10 hour video So you can use An option with distro box enter to create the own its own desktop file So if you have a application on a container You can use just an option for distro box enter to create a desktop file on your host system so that you can run That particular application to create the desktop file. You don't have to create it manually Yeah, it will do it for you. And so if you want if you say solve firefox on the container You'd have a desktop file and it would just work. It's Really freaking awesome. And if you use distro box assemble You can have that configuration file available to you whenever you go to a different system And it will just install all the images that you always have It's really really cool. Um, anyways, definitely give that check out. I I'll stop I need to I need to check it out. Maybe I'll create a bash grip. Like I said earlier The documentation is also really good by the way It's better than watching my video about it. The this the documentation is really good. Um documentation Documentation who's going to read? Reading reading is for pussies Okay, and on that note, uh, don't read into that too much I need to mention one thing before before we end. I need to mention one thing people an arch piece If you get the grub issue Issue don't report it to any distro maintainer Ported up on grub They have you go to grub's website They have a bug reporting section where you can report bugs Report it there. We need people to report it as to to to to to uh DDoS the grub Bug tracker so they can fix it quickly because it's starting to get annoying And there's another issue with a set font thing that I don't know With every update of of arch new things break That's the nature of arch. I know I understand it. I I live with it but grub Please people shake the Make some noise shake the ground underneath the grub developers feet Because it's starting to get annoying the two updates in a row that are broken Come on grub devs. What are you doing an arch maintainers for for the grub package? It's the package before you put it you ship it to your users What they need to do is so over that what they need to do is hire the guy who does the gnome updates for for Arch to do the grub ones too because he never updates gnome right at on time If he did the same thing with grub, it'd be fantastic. He just holds it back for two or three weeks Yeah, and this is I In this case Yeah, that's what exactly that's exactly what should what needs to happen Um, we need to get that gnome guy and take care of the grub package because arch Please test grub before you shipping. It's an essential part of uh of every os We're sick of having those kind of issues and us distro maintainers having to tell our users over and over and over again Don great grub Hold it back down great grub hold it back All right, I'm not gonna hold the grub back because if I do it myself They're gonna yell at me. Why are you doing the manjaro thing? Anyways, uh Pro tip don't use arch linux. Just use debion Use arch linux in a in a container in distro box. Yeah, yeah do that. Anyways, that's it for this episode We record this live every saturday around three o'clock pm at eastern time and we are on one hell of a streak I think we've done five episodes in a row Um, even when we're missing like half of our crew. We're still here entertaining you guys It's uh, well, it's a I hope we're entertaining. It's entertainment. No, it's edutainment Right educating and entertaining. I don't know about all that. Don't don't go too far. You don't want to sell it too hard, Steve Anyways youtube.com slash linux cast is where you can find that live You can hit the subscribe button hit the bell notification icon So you don't miss us when we do go live if you're watching this afterwards or even right now Go find that like button hit it for me. It really does help the channel. I'd really appreciate it Thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon at patreon.com slash linux cast you guys are all Absolutely amazing without you the channel just would not be anywhere near where it is right now So thank you so very very much for your support. I truly do appreciate it. Um, thank you so much Thanks everybody for watching. I'll see you