 Okay, now we are being recorded and it's 10 o'clock, so it's time for Encompass Live here at the Nebraska Library Commission. This is a program that we offer every week at 10 o'clock central time to librarians anywhere in the world technically, but usually in Nebraska and different parts of the United States. And we talk about different things, but somehow it all comes back to being helpful for librarians. It might be for children's librarians or teen librarians, academic librarians, it all depends on what the topic is for today. And I'm really fascinated by what you guys are going to be talking about. So I'm going to, let's see, I have to, let's see now where, there you are. I'm going to be slower because I don't do this as often as Krista, I'm Sally Snyder from the Library Commission. I'm the children and teen library services coordinator. So I'm filling in for Krista today. And if we have a couple of little sticking points, we'll work through them and it'll all be fine. Oh, they did mention one sticking point, which is about 10, 15, is that right Joyce? There's going to be a tornado warning or a drill drill. So and there's a siren about 30 yards from my window. So we'll just leave everything running and Joyce will probably mute and we won't talk out. Hopefully, if there are any questions, I'll let them know. And Amy will probably be fine because she's in a much more insulated part of the building than I am. So. But if we need to be quiet for a minute, we can do that and don't go away. They're going to come right back. If they have questions, please put them in the questions section there on your go to webinar interface thing. And if you don't want to mess with any of that, you can just hit that orange arrow at the top and it'll collapse that little screen. So you can pop it back out if you need to see something, but then you don't have it blocking their presentation. Okay, so Joyce, I'm going to make you a presenter. Okay. And that should just open up the world to you and you'll be able to share your screen. There we go. That looks great. And I'll mute myself now so you can talk. And you can see the slides. Yes. Yes. All right. So thank you everybody for joining us today. I'm Joyce Melvin. I'm the Interlibrary Loan and Resource Sharing Manager, sorry, at University of Nebraska Lincoln Libraries. And my colleague is Amy. I'm Amy. Yeah. Okay. I'm Amy Heberling. I am the Interlibrary Loan Borrowing Associate at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln Libraries. And our third person in our group is Michael Stratman, who is the Associate Director for Collection Management. And he is off doing other things at the last minute today that he wasn't anticipating having to do as a slight backstory. This is our second time doing this presentation. The first time was at the Nebraska Library Association fall meeting. And I wasn't able to attend because I had to go to a different meeting in Ohio. So it was just Michael and Amy. And we thought, hey, all three of us can do it for Encompass. Cool. And now Michael's not here. So we have yet to do this with all parties present. But we will endeavor to go forward. So that's us. And as stated, we did this originally for the Nebraska Library Commission fall meeting. Now a big part of that is public libraries. And we know a lot of the libraries who signed up for today are actually academic libraries. And we bet that you guys all have a lot of your own stories, and public libraries will have their own stories about things that their customers have asked them to find. But public libraries was who we originally gauged this presentation towards. So keep that in mind. Feel free to offer up any questions or any ideas about how we can, how the topics that we're discussing can be expanded. Because what, you know, what we're sharing is about 60, 70 years worth of our experiences doing this type of work and doing research for looking for the weird things. So we tried to tailor this to a general audience, but as you may have guessed, we are at a big academic library. So a lot of that stuff still does leak in there. So if that was what you're hoping for, we're hoping there'll be something that all everybody can use. Yes. So and, you know, and a lot of a lot of finding these resources is is a process of experience. And we hope to share that with with you guys today. So we did our introductions and a lot of what we're talking about is looking for those those weird things. Now this could be about how obscure it is or how, you know, is it I'm sorry. I've had plenty of fires to put out today, so my brain is a little is a little scattered. So we're trying to focus. But one of the one of the first things that when when we're looking for those obscure things is figuring out what that item is. Now that can be that can pretty be nicely obvious. Oh, it's a book, but it's particularly obscure. Okay, so what if what they're looking for is in a book or what if it's one of those things that's been published, but it's in a more fuzzy aspect so this this thing your citation is for a book but it's it's a paper that was done at a conference. And when they published the conference it was actually published as as a volume in a journal or a monographic serial. So these are the types of questions that we're going to be asking about any type of stuff like this and that's going that's going to be key to helping us find it. You know, what is it when we get right down to it? What is it? Are we talking about papers that are part of a collection so it's archival, or are we talking about a document for an organization that wouldn't necessarily be collected by a library but would be collected by an archive. You know this book. Oh, this is actually a dissertation. So who is most likely to own that? Where, where is this stuff located? Who's the most likely organization to collect this material? Is it something that, yeah, this is probably going to be collected by a library be at an academic or a public library? No, this is something that is more likely to be collected by a historical society or an organization or something like that. And then another question that we end up asking in our process is can we even get it? Is this something that is likely to be shared? Well, the organization exists, but they don't have archives going back for this particular type of thing for like a newsletter, or is this something that we even should be asking for? Amy, you are a good person to talk about, you know, should we get it? Well, I mean, there's a lot of factors in should we get it. Like, here is a crazy one that I had. I had somebody ask for something recently, well, at least in the last year, that was some kind of Air Force technical report. And then that I couldn't find anywhere. And as I was digging into it, I've reached out to some military Air Force related libraries. And when I finally got the right in contact with the right one, they're like, Oh, this is classified. You have to be a member of the, you have to be part of the military or a defense contractor. So sometimes the answer is we shouldn't get it. And no, we're not going to get it. And the person at the library and I talked to said, Oh, they can fill out a Freedom of Information Act request to ask for it, which is definitely out of the purview of what a library does. And certainly not. I mean, I know everybody has different timelines for how long they will spend working on a particular request for people, but a Freedom of Information Act request seems like way out of the timeline of what you can do in a library or in a requesting situation. That could be maybe years. I don't know how long that takes, but it's not two months. Right. Yeah, or another aspect of that is, you know, is what they are asking for, does that actually fall within copyright guidelines? You know, or what they is what they is what they are asking for more than what is reasonable to get as far as like a scan or a portion of a book. And it would just make sense to get something slightly different. That's the format they want exists. Yeah. So, so there's a there's a lot of questions to ask. And a lot of this is underlined is underpinned by the question, you know, by the final question we have, who can help? There's a lot of resources out there in that enable us to get to find a lot of things. But then it fall, you know, but when those can't be used or those don't fulfill our needs. What's the next lead and how to find that next lead. So, there we go. So, we're going to start talking about that first question. What, what is the thing what's the material type, you know, books and journals, those books especially can be pretty straightforward journals can often be straightforward media starts getting much more complicated. There's a lot of restrictions on sharing one of the things that I find disappointing as a customer is the the the propensity towards streaming services, which means that streaming loose that streaming content can't be shared or it's very difficult to share through your own or through resource sharing. Most often you have to be affiliated with that particular organization that has the streaming contract. But it is very dependent on, you know, on lots of different things. It is always fascinating to me when you know when data aggregators say that a data set data sets are available, but then who actually has access to those data sets can vary pretty widely based on the contracts and whether or not they know how to access them and then how to share them and if their contract then allow sharing. Although that's changing was it is that the National Institute of Health is now required, we went to a different presentation at a different NLA meeting. Just a month ago or less than a month ago and I think it's the National Institute of Health, their grants are now requiring that not only there was that earlier requirement where your article itself your published piece your published work had to be open access after a certain embargo point. Now, they're also requiring that your data needs to be open access and managed so lots of libraries including ours are just starting out with data repositories I don't know what those requests are going to look like or how I'm going to find them but when people start acting I'm going to be figuring it out. Right. Yeah, what are those citations going to look like when some data becomes available the high expectations will probably grow that more kinds of data will be available and the lag between what people would like to be available and what will be available will be an interesting time for all of us I think. Yep. So the first tools for discovery. There's some very basic ones which I'm sure most of you are familiar with Google for books Google across the board is great for finding lots of things because it's a very broad search. World cat is another great example for just really super broad searches looking for materials, but then you can start narrowing it down into more specialized things. Internet archives is a wonderful source, especially if you're looking for strictly online content. But, you know, to just list some of the things that we have on the screen Oxford music online Amazon Center for Research Libraries Library of Congress. You know and these can be very specialized based on what you're looking for. Amazon is beautiful for finding recently published things, you know, or things that are currently in the marking place we often use Amazon as part of our market analysis for for copies. But if it's something that's more obscure than maybe Library of Congress or something that's older I should say is more is Library of Congress is going to be better Center for Research Libraries is fabulous for newspapers. Well, it all kind of depends on what that material is once you figured out what that is and then picking the right basic tools. Going towards your discovery. Oh, I think that I would like to say one more thing about that last slide. We are trying as we move through this presentation. Oh, it's starting. Pardon me. We have there's our tornado drill. And it's indoor. Amy, are you getting the siren as well. Okay, we'll just wait a minute till it's done and then we'll move ahead with the presentation. I think we're done. Yep. I was going to say one more thing about that last slide to reiterate what I said in the chat. It talks for Grove music but generally we've tried in this presentation because all of you are different kinds of places, doing different things to highlight resources that should be freely available to to everyone, regardless of what kind of subscriptions or databases that are available at your library or available at your library. Although, one of the things that I do like is that there is a lot of content that despite your lack of access to it you should be able to search it. Except EBSCO I'm looking at you EBSCO that's sad, but the rest of it. A lot of you know a lot of science direct Oxford scholarship online Cambridge core, even if you can't access it, Googling it up to verify your citations is a great way to make sure that you're that you've got all the information you need when you're looking for something and I'll let Joyce move on to the next slide. So yeah so thank you for your patience. Our tornado drill. So the next thing we wanted to talk about was you know problem citations and I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with all sorts of different tools and Amy was just mentioning various tools, particularly Google, which is great for checking citations and the different different ways to check those. But when when you really have that problematic citation. We felt it was important to mention that there's some there's some more. There's some other tools out there that don't necessarily occur to most people. Such as, you know, abbreviations for acronyms or a resource for acronyms and abbreviations. I know, you know, because we started doing in our library alone at different times. Amy, Amy has her favorites, and I was I was first taught to use Ulrich's which I'm sure a bunch of you may recognize, which was an original paper source. That was nothing but a giant list of abbreviations and acronyms. I love PubMed PubMed and abbreviates like anything and I have to say I've been teaching some news, some different staff members to work on article requests and they are sort of disappointed when things come requests come through with abbreviated titles. And I explained to them that that I am not disappointed because what's worse than an unabbreviated title isn't a title that's been unabbreviated incorrectly by your patron. You find that WorldCat is not your friend when they decide something is of when it should be for and abbreviated titles are a barrier. And this website and there's lots of other websites, especially in the science titles that tend to abbreviate the most that will help you and I also find going for newer things, going back to just Googling the article title will tell you what the unabbreviated title will be. So, just got to you got to kind of push through and hope that your abbreviated title is something in English, then it gets weirder. There are lots of resources out there and, you know, asking asking Google for abbreviations for titles by a discipline, it will probably find you some lists, either either by that by a professional organization in that area, or help other helpful librarians have put that information up for their patrons, and thus it is now there for you to use as well. But also we wanted to mention is, you know, we are, we are librarians. You know, there's a lot of other resources regarding subject headings and classification that, you know, especially when you have more generic titles, or if you have things in foreign languages, but they have been cataloged somewhere along the way, or particularly for older materials like pre 1980, that you can use those subject headings and other cataloging information to narrow down your sort narrow down options and find, find sources or find cataloging material to help you identify the piece or to help you fix that citation. You know, if you're looking for, if you're looking for the newsletter in nightly creatures, you know, oh, there's there's actually that's surprisingly common, but there's one that falls under entertainment, and one that falls under so sociology, and there's also one that falls under biology and you're looking for nematodes. Yeah, that nematodes, that's the one we're going to be picking because that's actually what we're looking for. So, yeah, in those subject headings make sure I mean with generic titles subject headings are your friend, you've got that article title, and then the subject headings in the in the WorldCat OCLC record that you found for a matching serial title, you know, as joy says if you're looking for something about sociology, and it's saying something about, you know, plants, you're at the wrong place. Yeah. And then, then there's foreign languages. Now this is one of the things that I find really fun in my mini, my couple of decades of doing in our library loan is how things across the planet have been changing in their accessibility. So when we have foreign language titles and they have, you know, it's easy to say that they're becoming more common as more resources are available across the planet and technology advances. But these were always a thing. They just pose slightly different challenges now than they have been, than they have in the past. So, you know, if you have that, you know, foreign language citation, and we need, and you know, finding a checking the citation and potentially finding a source for it poses its own unique challenges. Now, sometimes, you know, you discover that it was translated badly. So you need to do a different, you need to do a different translation. Google translate is great. Deepol is particularly good. Mike Strong, Mike does a lot of research in Eastern European languages. He really likes Deepol. But, you know, it's part of it is also finding the best translator tool for the language that you're translating to or from. So Google translate, great starting point. Deepol, another way. But, you know, also talking to others, talking to your customer. It's entirely possible that they speak the language or they're more familiar with that with the language that the source is in, then we are, and they can provide some great insight. One of the great quandaries I always had, especially when I started doing it in a library alone, was the different translations or the different transliterations of citations that weren't in our alphabet. So if they were in Cyrillic, or if they were transliterations, you know, the source would give something slightly different every single time. And because there's more standardization with that now, I think that's a lot easier. But when you're talking paper citations, especially pre 1980. Oh, that can get messy. That gets messy very quickly, especially when you have, you know, the same citation in different sources, but it looks completely different because the words are spelled completely different, even though it's in the same language. So, to follow up on that, the little sun symbol is the symbol of the helpful people at the Slavic reference service. The Slavic reference service is run out of the University of Illinois Libraries. It is a free service. You can email them. They have a website, I think that has a contact form and that's in the resource list that we attached to this presentation. But they are great. I've had some interactions with them. I emailed them. I'm like, what is this? Where is this? And they've given me suggestions about how to find, how to find a thesis in Russian and where I go to get it. Of course, they were the Ukraine had already started. So that was kind of a bummer. But one time I asked them for something and they just sent me an open access PDF that they found online of the source that I was able to deliver to my patron. They're great help just and it's two full. They will help you figure out where to request stuff from, but they will also help you figure out your citations. So they are great. And I mean, if you know that you're looking for something and there is a certain library that seems to have librarians trained in that language area. It is not a bad idea to use their chat or contact that library and say, hey, I'm struggling. Most librarians, I mean, you may not be their top priority, but most librarians will are invested in trying to help you. If you get stuck. And we're going to end up saying this multiple times through the course of this, but the best one of the best tools for any of this is that reference interview. Talk to your customer. If you run into a problem spot, talk to your customer, go back to your customer. And even even after you've talked to your customer, that reference interview is also important when you're the customer reaching out to other locations and asking them about how to find things because they're going to have a different set of information than you. They are going to have specialty that you don't necessarily have. And they're going to be able to offer you leads. So, all right, now we're going to be talking about more of that. Are you trying to get the recording to go. So, can you not hear the recording. No, no, the recording isn't going. I'm sorry. I had, I had originally recorded this and I'm hearing the recording, but apparently you guys aren't my apologies. I thought it was playing. So, I can hear it in my head my apologies. Just a moment. If you want to roll back. Yeah, I'm. Oh, okay. My apologies that my, my original portion of this presentation was was recorded because I wasn't there. And I thought you could hear me talking. So, yeah, we thought that was going to work. Apparently it didn't work. So just a moment. While I figure this out without having it playing in my head. Okay, where I feel we are at the moment, my apologies again, and I will stop saying that. We're having trouble hearing you now Joyce because you flipped up your microphone. I apologize for keeping apologizing. So, I'm, I'm trying to figure out how to mute the original presentation while showing the slides since you can't hear the recording. It's, I'm. Okay. This, this is going to be, this is going to be clunky and I apologize for that. And I said I'd stop apologizing. So, now we're going to talk about a bit more about finding items and getting access for me. This has always been one of the more interesting economies and resource sharing. People have realized that there are advantages to showing off their unique holdings and for years libraries and publishers have been indexing and digitizing their print archives, making their collections more discoverable than they have ever been. It doesn't mean that every item a patron is looking for is easy to find or easy to get. For example, data can be changed or entered incorrectly. When is it, when it is indexed. Can we not see the slides while you're doing this. Can you not see the slide. No, we are, we are on people time. So, I didn't want to get, let you get too far with that without getting back. I appreciate that. Can you see the slide now. We're on the slides where the hard to find hard to get slides. So, I think you can push on through from here. It's all going to be fine because remember we can chop things out and just start right up here. So don't worry about it for the recording and the people listening are going. Yay, I'm not the only one that has a mistake sometimes. So, well, well demonstrated. So, what's the difference with the technology is it a really a webinar. Have you really been to a webinar. If nothing we're proving we're proving we're human. So, all right. I'm not going to start from the beginning. You're at unique collections go. Sadly, that does not help. Let's see. Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to start for you for years libraries and publishers have been indexing and digitizing their printer guys making collections more discoverable than they ever have been. This doesn't mean that the item that a patron is looking for is going to be easy to find or easy to get data is often changed or entered incorrectly when it's indexed, you know, proof that we're human just like now. Some publishers change citation information when they digitized our articles to reflect the current title of the journal, not the title that it was originally published under, which is one of my pet peeves. Or they change the publication date to the date that it was digitized, not the date that was originally published. Again, one of my pet peeves there's nothing quite like finding out that an article that you thought was from 2019 was actually published online in 2019 but was published in print in 1982. Often being able to find something means you've identified a potential source to get that thing. We've already talked about a number of really good sources, WorldCat, Internet Archive, Google Books, Google Scholar, but there's a lot more out there. Oh, go back to Nebraska access and open access, or did you. There we go. That's what you see. Yes. Yes. Okay. There's a wide variety of librarians and content providers who are committed to making information accessible in a variety of different levels. Open access resources make either citations or a version of the work itself available to the public. These databases range from being very broad to extremely specific focusing on a narrow topic like water rights. Yeah, focusing on a narrow topic like water rights in the Rocky Mountains, which is a great database by the way. On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum groups compile lists of smaller open access resources into lists or databases, or aggregating the content into multi-disciplinary databases. In Nebraska, we're lucky to have the library commission, Nebraska Library Commission, who has curated a number of online sources on a wide variety of topics. These can be accessed for patrons or by patrons directly or by libraries in the state. The directory of open access journals and directory of open access books are two of the largest sites for open access content. There are so many more out there. A bit of pause right here. Yes. Since our original audience for this presentation was Nebraska Library Professionals, is I think Nebraska Access is a password and restricted site, but it's in the, it was in the original presentation because our original audience, that would not be a barrier for them. So if you're not a Nebraska, it may be a barrier for you. So I just wanted to put that out there since we're showing it as a source that's openly available. But for this audience, it may or may not. Right. Thank you. No, no, thank you, Amy. That's something really important to mention, because there's lots of other states who have similar resources that they have curated, you know, and to find out what those are. You know, and they may not be state, they may be regional or, or, you know, smaller or lower in regional scope. So, you know, thanks for mentioning that, Amy. I also want to add a caution that open access full text about full open access full text resources, not everything that is available full text is the finished published version. They may have select chapters or images embargoed for copyright reasons, or it may be pre print, pre print of the version prior to publication for really hard to get items. This might be the only way to get the piece. But it will depend on what your customer needs. Amy is going to be talking more about that in a little bit. Okay, I have to go forward a slide to stop the recording from playing. And then when I move on to the next slide, it starts automatically. So that's why we're going back and forth every single time. All right, international resources. Don't forget that there's that much of what libraries in the US have done to make materials more discoverable is also happening all over the planet. Libraries and governments are indexing materials in topics that are most important to them and local and national archives are digitizing content. If your source isn't isn't English based, or was published outside the US, these may be your best bet. Many of the larger libraries will have translation options on their websites to facilitate researchers. We were actually just talking about this this morning that over over our 10 years in research. We have seen a fascinating shift in how materials are becoming more accessible in different parts of the planet. In the 90s, there was it was much easier to access a lot of stuff in Eastern Europe than it was in a lot of other parts of the planet. But as time has gone on, that access has increased in places like Eastern Eastern Asia. But, you know, we were talking about the Philippines this morning and finding finding sources there and finding online journals there. I'm, I'm really entertained entertained pleased. It's great to watch how India has moved from having almost nothing research wise available. To having libraries with online catalogs and open access sources and open access material that you can do citation checking and potentially even download materials from. I would say one of my experience is if it's from Europe or Eastern Europe and it's an open access journal, there's probably some kind of WorldCat record, but there are lots of great open access journals in the Middle East that are even in English or provide knowledge abstracts or even article translations. And those are not. Those are not which is why you'd go back to the open access journal database, but sometimes just Google, and the surprise of these things. When I first started it used to be humanities literature journals in Korea, published in Korea, when the patron sites them, the whole citation looks normal in English. There's some journal about Jane Austen in Korea, or some education journal that's published in the Middle East. Google is your friend here. And they are doing a great job, but WorldCat is still catching up to them. Okay. Oops. Okay. And don't forget that not just libraries are are great sources for materials. Now granted, you can make the argument that a lot of these are libraries just in a different slightly different format, or they just don't have a library blatantly in their name, or sometimes they do. But it's not just the academics in the public. It's the historical societies. I have, it's been great to see what we've been able to obtain from historical societies over the years. Whether it's for people who are doing genealogical research, or it's historians that are doing research on particular regional events. It's social scientists who are doing research. And they want to look at newspapers. You know, sometimes those newspapers are only going to be available, available from regional areas. You know, granted, there's some, some larger groups that really have done wonderful work in accessing those, those newspaper resources, but sometimes it's the historical societies. Nebraska Historical Society has a great microform collection of local newspapers across the state. You know, but I also know that the State Historical Society of Missouri has a great wealth of stuff. The localpapers.com works with a lot of historical societies. They're working with ours right now to make those small local papers accessible. CRL has an amazing resource, is an amazing resource for non-English language ethnic newspapers published in the United States, especially pre-1970. My favorite is, of course, Chronicling America from the Library of Congress. Their resources for, for open, for newspapers are great. And I would always, and some local historical societies are also starting to put some of their more harder to find newspaper resources online through their website. And I advocate for all of those sources. Unfortunately, newspapers.com is a paywall product. So despite the fact that they are working hard to, to broaden their reach and get more stuff in there, all, it seems like all the time, your, you or your patrons may find that paywall aspect a barrier. I don't know what kind of, like, because we don't have it. So I don't know what the inner library loan capabilities of those subscriptions are. So keep advocating if you are an epistodist and do so for, for your local historical societies and universities to take all their unique newspaper resources and get them out there. Chronicling America or, or on, on your own website in a non-paywall form because everybody is benefiting from that. But, you know, and don't, don't forget about the other sources. You know, professional associations, such, such as the International Society for Optics and Photonics, SBIE to everybody who is familiar with any type of engineering related stuff. Sometimes, you know, as, as more organizations have moved online, they're putting their sources online or they're referencing their sources online. And sometimes that's the only way to get that. You know, those items are going to probably be showing up in Google. And when our customers find those sources through their Google search, they don't necessarily realize that the only way to get that is through that organization. And, you know, or a researcher, you know, they may find the citation as part of, as a paper citation, but then, and so they ask us about it. But the only way we can find it is to go back to, and this has actually happened with the National Association of Social Workers, where, you know, someone's looking for a letter that was presented in their monthly news professional newsletter. And that's the only way you can find it. So, so keep, keep an open mind and, you know, fall down the rabbit holes, because that will sometimes be your very best bet. And we're going to, we're going to say this yet, yet again, that the reference interview is the, is one of the most important tools, if not the most important tool for finding stuff. It will, you know, when you have something, you know, and we often reference the, the citations that for things that have common titles. But sometimes it's that conversation with your customer that was like, well, I know it's the one that was published in, in Berlin. It's like, oh, okay, that narrows it down dramatically. And that gives us a much better lead than we had before, where we just thought this was a bad citation because there's an identical journal title in English, but it doesn't match on anything else. So, reference interviews. They will often provide the best information or they can give us a clue about where it was found. And sometimes, if it doesn't tell us where to find it, sometimes it tells us it's not findable. And now I hear a vacuum cleaner somewhere. Okay, and one of the things, oops, hidden factors. Age will make a difference. Weirdly, the hardest, some of the easiest things to find are some of the oldest things. Because libraries have actually, libraries are actually digitizing those, you know, they're outside of copyright. But, you know, and new things can can be particularly difficult, because people want to put them behind paywalls. So, you know, that there's a lot of questions that have to be be answered in a lot of questions that have to be answered in regard to the age of an item. And don't forget about impact on market trends. Again, sometimes those new things are going to be the most difficult to find, because nobody wants to, nobody wants to give them to libraries or no one wants to share them. They want to make people buy them. We've seen that with a couple of databases where entries in the databases are only available to people who have subscriptions to the database. But it is also untenable, you know, not financially tenable for us, for us as an organization to subscribe to that database. So it may, it can make accessing those materials particularly difficult print versus audio versus e content. The really weird part here is audio, because going back to that streaming or media and streaming, you know, I love that public libraries are able to stream electronic books and audio books and things like that. But that means they're not shareable. So, you know, I noticed the American Chemical Society and I think possibly SBIE is starting to videotape their conference presentation or take their conference presentations and make a digital file of the actual presentation just like this one available through their website. I'm very grateful that no one has yet asked me to get this because I don't think those files are going to be shareable without a subscription. There's another journal called Jove Science Journal, and there some of their articles are actually videos. So these are other barriers. I mean, I don't know what, I don't know what, how involved in actual interlibrary loan everyone, our audience is. But as you know, if you are a Tepasa user or an Iliad user, or I don't know what the other ones are, but the way we are, the way those software systems are designed to share files, they are supposed to be PDFs or tips only. So even if something happens and those video files are the licenses make them shareable, we're going to be a little stuck about how that's going to work and what it's going to look like. Thanks, Joyce. All right. And I believe brings us to Amy. Oh, okay, great. All right, I'm going to sort of go on from where Joyce was. So what is your, what is your customer need. As Joyce mentioned earlier, often spending a small amount of time discussing their projects or research purposes and their deadlines can help you direct them to more easily available resources instead of the difficult ones they've asked for. And as I was saying that the shock bomb of those few literature journals that are published in Korea, I get some undergraduate ordering this Korean article about Jane Austen and I'm like, Oh, we have a, we have a pile of Jane Austen articles right in this building. Are you sure maybe those will be better for you and better for your deadline, which is next week. Or something like do they need a primer? Do they really need this obscure primary source that they've asked for, or maybe a secondary source with more context would be better for them? How do you know? Do they need the specific addition as Joyce talked about earlier with Amazon, they are great at the additions that are new and for sale. We have a lot of foreign language humanities and literature patrons that get their information about the books they want from Amazon. But those books have been in print since the 50s in Spanish or French or whatever. And they are important enough that the libraries that we are dealing with, mostly the Big Ten bought those works in the 50s and possibly the 70s and possibly again in the 90s. But they have not bought the 2019 ones. You have to talk to your customer and say, Hey, do you really need this one? Or would this 1971 that's in decent condition work out for you? And like the other thing too is when you are looking at WorldCat records, for foreign language, I don't speak anything else or read anything else, so I'm done with that. But for English language content, WorldCat is usually great about telling you has the addition, has extra content been added. Like if the patron is like ordering a 20th anniversary addition of something and it has a very prominent new forward by an important scholar in the field and that is important to them. The WorldCat record will tell you and the patron will tell you whether or not they need that. So those are kind of important questions to take stock of what the item is, what the patron needs and the availability as a three-prong factors that influence each other to get the best thing for your patron. Or the most possible thing, depending on sometimes availability is just the end. You just have to say, Oh no, this version really isn't available to us. This version needs to be bought. And you know, the next question might, does your user really need that item? We talked about that. And then is the item available in a usable format for your customer? My favorite example of this is once somebody ordered a documentary about, I think it was Blues Performers that was on the laser disc. I don't know how old everybody in this meeting is. But laser disc was a format from the 80s and the 90s that was like, it was shaped like an LP and worked like a double-sided DVD. So it was an audio-visual format that you played. The players were huge. The format was huge. It was technologically advanced, but the price point and other factors it never caught on. Actually, we owned one of these for a while. A friend gave it to us because he was going through a phase. But I don't know anybody else that had them. So like when I said no to this request, not only did I say what it was, I sent them a link to the Wikipedia entry that explained, because this was definitely post-2005 or probably post-2010, a Wikipedia entry that explained what this format was. And would they have any, and I never heard from them again. Probably because there would be no, even if I could get it, where would they play it. And things like this are happening all the time. We have lots of books, 1995 to 2002, that have CD-ROMs in the back of them. And if that information is still relevant, depending on what kind of computer they have, it's trapped in there. Our newly issued computers do not have CD-ROM drives as a standard. And I would assume that that would be the case for a lot of your patrons. So you need to keep an eye on that kind of thing. Format may also be an issue like Joyce mentioned earlier with preprints. A lot of times you'll be able to find that author preprint, and sometimes I will send that kind of thing. Or we have various systems. We're a rapid library, and that rapid open access tool will find that preprint online and send it to our patrons. And then I promptly get an email back going, I need the copy of record. I can't use this author preprint for whatever reason, but it is really none of my business. So I just try to get the original source. So those are conversations you might have. And also with the digital repositories, the article version available may be that author preprint or some other thing that is not the same, exactly the same, usually layout more than anything else than the official published journal article available through Science Director or those kind of public sage or Wiley or something like that. And you may need to have those conversations with your patrons about what is appropriate for their research and what they can really use. So I'm going to interrupt for just a moment because we have a, you know, we got a half a dozen slides are so left a low on time. Okay, I'm going to go faster. Okay. I just like to say that we can go long on time and if people have to leave right at 11 o'clock. Don't worry the recording will be up and you can come back and catch the last part of it. At a later time, if that will work better for you but like you said you, you don't have that much yet to go so hopefully people can stick with us. Thank you if you can. Thanks Sally. So copyright we talked about this a little bit but I want to go I want to go a little farther into this copyright law copyright law is a thing we are in it we are institutions, we cannot cloud it. We cannot just read the warning on the on the copier and go oh well, we really need to track our copyright compliance and we need to be make reasonable decisions. Sometimes the patrons don't particularly even patrons that are publishers, even patrons that are lawyers have asked us to copy an inappropriate amount of stuff. We need to explain what is possible, and sometimes like, I know Joyce in the past is like, well just order the book for them but when I asked them they're like, we're willing to take less. If we can get it digitized and with we can get it sooner. So sometimes the copyright it really needs to be a conversation I know. Last year I had a conversation of a faculty member really wanted an ebook edition of something for their research but it was a book from the 80s of the 90s and me and the science library and had to explain that, even though there was not an ebook out there to purchase copyright law did we have to make one, which is kind of what they were hoping we might do. I mean, not that we even have the staff to scan 300 page book, and that might be a situation many of you are in. But doesn't matter if we had the staff because the law does not allow that and sometimes you really need to talk to the patrons and get them to a place where their expectations are legal and reasonable. Yeah, next slide. So, this is the part where we talk about ethics because we've been talking a lot about more and more stuff is available online. But not all of it is great. Some of it is shady. I don't really see a lot of side hub when I'm googling so I think they've been shut down but what I do see is a lot of academia.edu. Now, I will not use those sources and I'm cranky when other libraries send them to me, because it's kind of like the posters are being trusted to follow the copyright laws and the licensing agreements and the publishing agreements that they signed when their material was published. And, you know, until they get, but if they post something that's not supposed to be there, it will stay up until the publisher finds it and sends the cease and desist notice which means that the leader take it down or replace it with the version that it's allowable. I personally don't have time to verify that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. So I just don't use those sources. And if I was that desperate, I may recommend or tell a patron that those sources are there if that's really all that's going to be there, but I don't really ever feel comfortable sharing it. And that's the thing. If you're going through a digital repository that's sponsored by an academic institution or an association, or a federal government, you can pretty much be fairly reassured that they have some kind of copyright policy and that they are doing due diligence when they put things up. When you're just kind of on the internet, you've got to be careful and make, and make good choices and document the choices that you have made. So that's the other thing about ethics is you want to look for you want to look for also that creative commons licensing and open access material. I mean, I find myself. I think it's, I know it's been the last three minutes of Googling. How do you say open access in Polish. So I could make sure that the source that I was delivering. And the other thing too is, when I think it's a credible thing, or it's a publisher, or the publisher has made a rash of people asking for this article published by this Frank Wood Wright Journal that was like, like a donor bonus for the Frank Wood Wright Society, they had articles online, they were not open access. In that case, I would share short links, because we did not have the right to be reproducing that material and sending it to our patrons, but it was out there for them to see. So, you just want to think about the credibility of your sources, you want to think about the rights of the items that you are finding and using, and the best way to deliver them that obeys copyright law and preserves the rights of the author or the content owner. So, I'm going to make those decisions carefully. And last factor, and as we're doing, as we're doing ethics, we want to think about when we're providing things, the Russa, the, the, the American Library Association in our library loan code, the Russa in our library loan suggestions and ethics, and locally we have the Nebraska Library Commission and sure you have ethical questions, they might be able to help your own library probably has a has a has somebody that does has some expertise in copyright or a university lawyer, you get stuck, you need to go to these resources and make you know you are making institutions for an institute, you're making decisions for an institution. And there are consequences for that so you want to do the best thing for your patrons but also for yourself and for your institution so those are things you want to think about as you're as you're deciding to provide things. And everybody needs to think about in a library environment is cost. How much will this cost, you know, you can go to those national, your patrons like, Oh, this is a this library or this is a that like National Library and then you get there and you're like, Wow, that's all the money that they are asking for to get this thing. Is there a different version. How long is that going to take I mean, you may be able to go to that National Library and get that thing, but it may, it may show up six weeks too late for your patron to do anything with it so that's another this is another place about time and cost, where your own local situation, and also that reference interview will help you make some good decisions. Yeah, I think so because I'm about, I'm about to wrap it up. Oh, I don't know. Actually, I think I'm, I don't know what you didn't give me the slide prompt that's okay. That's okay I think I think we can just wrap it up because I'm looking at what I've got here. We can do some local resources about who can help. Just talked about this before but museums, local historical societies, local genealogy societies those people are organized, and they have been doing this, even though many of them are hobbyists they've been doing this, that kind of work. I don't like genealogy stuff myself because those things don't interlibrary loan that well I'm working on something now somebody wants a book. I keep getting will copy up to 50 pages. You know, but those those resources are out there those people are pretty helpful when you in, especially you engage them on on their holdings or their topic of interest. Because the one thing I was talking about before is they aren't just a source for the materials they own, but they are specialists in those types of materials so they can give you a lead on where to find what you're looking for if they don't have it. So, you know, because the historical society society people who specialize in newspapers, you know, if, if for a different state or if it's a different region they are going to be able to say oh well talk to these people because they're doing this area while we specialize in this area. Yeah, I find that with our government documents person she is in working hard to keep our repository up to snuff, but she will try hard to answer my questions about UN documents of which we have some, and like British government documents of which we don't have that many. But she will try, and she is often a good resource, even though it's outside of her her her stated work and experience. Yeah, and as stated this this presentation was originally for a Nebraska based audience. If you're in another state, you will have your own group of organizations who you can, who you can talk to who's who are going to be able to provide you leads who will net who will help you network. We are hugely thankful for the resources we have in Nebraska. They do a great job. We get tons of awesome things from them we get great leads from them. We are happy to help. But we also know that Missouri, Texas, South Dakota, Illinois, Georgia, Rocky Mountain Region, Wyoming, they all have great networks that we use on a pretty regular basis because yeah we value information. I mean, what is the what is the flagship library? What is the flagship university library of your state? Do you think they can help you? I have to say, the night email, cold email libraries all the time, little libraries, big libraries, libraries in countries whose languages I don't speak, they are awesome and they usually have somebody that can answer my email. They, I get, you know, some, a lot of times I'm asking them, can you lend us this? And when they can't, they will even, but they will go that extra mile and they will recommend, well, we don't have this, but this library in the next region has this thing. You should try, you should talk to them. The other thing is most libraries, small and large, when you go to their website, their website is prompting you to chat. Go ahead and chat. And I think they, they appreciate that your question is better defined than the, than an typical patron question, and that you don't need the answer yesterday. I mean, I, when I engage with these people on chat, I'm like, Hey, you're here, I'm going to ask you this question. Let me, let me give you my email, please, you know, if you need to talk to other people or need to look into this, I'd be happy for you to reach out to me as soon as you can get something. So use those resources. All everybody, almost everybody I encounter wants to help, especially a question that's pretty defined, like the time to get from a library employee. So, yeah. And they, they feel like they are in it with you. So I think, so, so as you as you're working through all this stuff, it just gives you a lot of opportunities to ask, can we get it, should we get it, how should we get it, and to build relationships with librarians and services and institutions in your region and even in other countries. And it's, I find doing this work is a pretty rewarding experience and there's always something, something unexpected that happens or things that I never expect to get have shown up and sometimes even for free. Thank you for everybody who has stuck around through our tech problems and our in our tornado drill and our vacuuming and the vacuuming. Not, yeah, it's been an interesting morning that's for sure. We are happy to answer questions feel free to reach out to us also outside of this webinar if you want to ask us questions. We're pretty easily findable through the University of Nebraska Lincoln directory. But, you know, we've, we've been doing this a little while and we wanted to share that some of that expertise that we have found along the way and one of one of the crazy things about experience is that all just kind of depends on what situation situations you've run into. So, Amy has a different slightly different different set of data than I do which is different from what Michael has so and, and each of you who do this type of thing is going to have a slightly different set of data to, and using that data and sharing that data is how we do even better at our jobs. Yeah, I love personally I love the scavenger hunt that is in our library alone. Because you're always learning something new. Yeah, I have to say one of my favorite engagements I've had on this is like, there is a library and I'll Facebook group that I am in. It's fun. If you if you're that kind of nerd go join. Somebody posted one of those questions tell us you're here in ILL without telling you, tell it without saying it and I said well I can find articles published in the late, the late 18th century early or the late 19th century early 20th century about me and I said I don't speak any Matodes in languages that I do not speak. And somebody else popped up and said, do you need to do that. I said soil science is very important here. So I mean everybody has ever even though we're all doing ILL work and a lot of it is working the work in the world cat and doing the basic processes to get a lot of our stuff. And that's what we need for their own institution or their patron set or just that one patron that shows up. And we hope that by sharing this kind of information that that it will help you as as we have been helped in the past to handle those situations and get that stuff. We do have one question. The person says, I use Nebraska access. Are the other databases listed free, or do they require an account login. And I'm not sure if they're referring to that Nebraska page through you had different things like the museum. Yeah, we tried to oh we tried because our original presentation was was especially and during public to public libraries we tried to limit how much subscription based stuff that we mentioned. And I would say the growth music online is is not searchable or accessible unless you subscribe. Nebraska access is were Nebraskans. And I think the center and then the newspapers calm, but almost everything else we mentioned, obviously, if you're an ILL professional, hopefully you're in an institution that's jumped up for the world of proper version of World Share and the proper version of first search OCLC because that doesn't because the OCLC.org does not have all the records. Another thing I can say about OCLC since this is, I'm feeling that this group is probably using a lot of OCLC and they're working lives in the last five to 10 years and as I've been doing this. So this is, I think it was year 22 in April. So over 10 years I've noticed OCLC is getting much better at at documenting and making records available for for open access content, but it's not all there by any means and I'm also now starting. We are at the point where I am starting to find links that have died, which is another, but at least it can tell you where it was or what institution might have put that stuff up in the first place so you can try to reach out to them. The other thing too that I neglected to mention in terms of contacting libraries. I know we are all using the policy directory, but I still encourage you to go to the library's websites themselves sometimes the policy directory information isn't updated the way it should be, or it's not the person you need to talk to. The other thing that I completely forgot to mention is the OCLC international toolkit, which is a open access Google spreadsheet of international libraries that do ILL lending. It has their OCLC symbol if they have one the name of the library, their website, if they have an online form for accepting requests, if they have an online page that explains their policies. It's just if you just Google OCLC international toolkit, you will be able to get into that the Google spreadsheet is open to everyone, and you'll be able to get in there and look around. Especially when I find an OCLC record that has all small letter foreign symbols, one of the first places I now go is that toolkit spreadsheet to see if somebody's already blazed that path and recorded that contact information for me so I don't have to do it again. When we originally did this presentation we put together a couple of pages of database and websites that are useful tools for finding a variety of resources and the particular resources that they are useful for. We will make sure that is shared with our slide deck. Oh, we did. I already sent that I think you guys put it. Thank you so much. Great. I don't have any other questions we do have some thank yous from people. Thank you for coming. We really appreciate this was fascinating. And boy am I glad I don't have to hunt for those things. Sorry. I mean, to wander down one rabbit hole and then we can wrap things up. Sometimes you just get asked for the weirdest things we were talking about that earlier today before, before this my the weirdest thing I was ever asked for was the charter letter for a zoo in St. Louis. It was, it was donated to an archive in the catalog that for, for NLA we had, Mike had asked the audience and somebody was telling the story about how they managed to track down historic paint colors for a building through their through their research resources. So there's all kinds of things out there. The other thing that I keep forgetting things that I wanted to mention that I do for our patrons regularly when we run into that archival content or content that isn't loanable is most large libraries and archives have a paid reproduction service that generally does not take ILL requests which I have a hard time making clear to some of my patrons, but does take individual researcher requests. Now, these are, these are not cheap services, but I always feel like when we get to the end of the line of ILL resources, making that kind of service information available to our patrons kind of helps. I mean, especially around here where we are a large research university. And they do have money and resources to pursue those, those materials outside of what they like us and reliable they come to us first, but there are limits to what we can do. But there are other parallel kinds of services and I really like to point those out. Thank you so much this has really been fascinating and the things you look for astound me but there are people who need this information just like you were saying. And to the best of your ability you're getting it for them and that's terrific. I just want to mention that if you look at the, here's the library commission homepage. And if you type up in the search box and compass, then you'll come up with and and compass live is the top thing. So far, that's the only only encompass live in the country so yay. And this is their list of what our upcoming show so next week is transforming library staff learning through technology skills assessments. No. Yeah, that's right. And I'm kind of curious about what that's all going to be about to. So if you're looking for if you want to come back and see the rest of this show sometime or other ones you can click down to the list of the upcoming titles is the archived and compass live shows and you click there. And this one after it's Krista has done her magic on it. It will be the top thing that's listed, and we have all of our shows on this file. So this started and I believe 2009. I scroll down but it might make you dizzy. So you can search all the archives or you can just search the most recent 12 months. If that's all you're interested in because if you're looking at something from like 2010. URL that people mentioned may not no longer work. The, the recommendations they're giving may not be the best anymore things change from two years ago from two weeks ago things change sometimes so just be aware of what you're doing with that. And it's timeframe that you're, it was recorded in so you know, this is historical but it might not all still be available or correct. But you can look throughout our archive for all kinds of topics. You can can also do. Let's see somehow you can do a search. Here in this, in this little box right here, you can search for a keyword. And to, to better find the show that you're looking for it's all here. We also have a Facebook page but I'm not adapted that because I don't have time to do Facebook I like to sleep at night. People tell me don't get started you'll be anyway I'm just kidding but you know we all have have enough time for some things and there are other ones we have to let go. But I do want you to know that there is a Facebook page for encompass live and we'd love it if you would like us when you are there if you're and if you're a Facebook user. So once again I'd like to say a big thank you to Joyce and Amy for all this information and the presentation and wow. And again this will be up on this archive list fairly soon. I'm not sure what Chris does time frame is for that this week. Thank you for tolerating my lack of skills and hosting. But it's been very, very fun. Thank you so much. Now I'm going to go ahead. I was just going to say thank you for having us. Thank you for inviting us. I would have loved to have been here. I'm sure of that. I'm now going to shut down the program. Thank you one more time.