 Welcome to Globe Fish Interviews, where we speak with leading experts on international trade and fisheries. My name is Joe Zalazny. Today, we're joined by Auden Lem, Deputy Director of FAO's Fisheries Division. Auden, it's great to have you with us. Nice to be here with you. Well, Auden, let's get started. Last year, FAO celebrated the 25th anniversary of the Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries. Fish production and trade is an important economic and social activity in many regions around the world. How does the Code of Conduct foster sustainable trade and strong participation of developing countries and small scale fishers in national, regional and global markets? Well, the Code of Conduct, although it was established more than 25 years ago, it was really a forward looking document. It sets at the very high level the principles of sustainable trade, sustainable production, and also the sustainability of social sustainability. So it really includes all the three dimensions of sustainability. And then what about trade? As I said, it sets the principles. So the details of how to implement sustainable trade is then developed both globally and regionally and nationally through other instruments, implementation instruments, such as either national legislation, international agreements, the framework, for example, of the WTO. And of course, the Code of Conduct says specifically that anything that deals with trade should be within the framework of the international rules set down by the WTO. And what then about specifically sustainable practices, sustainable trade? Well, as I said, the Code of Conduct sets at the very high level the principles of sustainability, including that of sustainable trade. And we have developed a number of guidelines that flow, that come out of the Code of Conduct that subsequently have been adopted by the international community, have been endorsed by FAO members, and therefore fostering international trade in a sustainable manner. For example, the guidelines on catch documentation schemes, which allows for proper traceability and the legality of products when the international trade come out of the Code of Conduct. The same with the guidelines, the specific guidelines for sustainable trade. Again, the Chapter 11 of the Code of Conduct deals with trade and deals with how to make it more sustainable. And we have developed guidelines that have then been endorsed by our members and are being implemented also nationally by policy makers, but even more important by the industry, by the stakeholders themselves. So I think the Code of Conduct, although inspirational as a voluntary code, it really has encouraged and made a number of instruments and tools come forward that really ensure that trade and markets and consumption is now much more sustainable than it was in the past. Of course, there is still potential for improved things, but the principles of further improvement are there and can be found in the Code of Conduct. Access to market information, such as prices on fisheries and aquaculture products is an important step towards ensuring producers have equitable access to markets. How is FAO contributing to this end? Well, FAO in general and globally specifically is making available a number of data, a number of information that is really useful for the operators. First of all, FAO is the only agency or organization in the world that provides global statistics for production, for catches, for aquaculture production, and also specifically for trade in fishing and fishery products. So in that sense, FAO provides a lot of very useful information for policy makers, but also for operators. Then specifically, globally, which of course provides up-to-date market information, price information for a number of very important products in international trade. It provides analysis on trade trends, on markets, on consumption trades in all major markets of the world. So in this sense, also, Glowfish fulfills a very important role as a provider of information, but market access is more than information on products and more than information on prices. Glowfish is also doing an excellent role in providing information on import requirements, what to do in order to be able to export to the most important import markets in the world. Of course, the EU, US, Japan, but also many other important markets. And in fact, the markets in the world that really are growing the quickest now are in emerging economies, in Asia, but also in a number of other very important emerging economies of the world. So Glowfish, together with its sister network of regional organizations and organizations such as InfoFish, Infosamac, EuroFish, InfoPesh and InfoPesca are together providing a lot of information, not only on the products and prices on market trends, but also what to do in order to be able to fulfill the import requirements in these markets, especially related to quality and safety issues, but also to legality of cultures, of traceability, et cetera. So also for this first purpose, Glowfish is doing a very important role together with our colleagues in FAO as such. Glowfish is a long-established source of information on trade in fisheries and aquaculture products. Are there any new products being developed that we can expect to see rolled out over the coming months? Well, since Glowfish started out more than 35 years ago, a lot of things have changed. Of course, and Glowfish is changing and evolving, not only because of new technology, IT technology, but also because the needs of its constituents are changing. Glowfish continues to provide the analysis on market developments, on input requirements, but also it's launching a number of new information products, more interactive, more innovative, and increasing also the dialogue with stakeholders to be able to ensure that what is provided, it really reflects also the needs of the industry and the stakeholders. So Glowfish is really changing and evolving with the needs of its constituents. Some have argued that exporting fisheries and aquaculture products can diminish food security for local communities. Is international trade compatible with raising social, nutritional, and economic standards in local fishing communities? Well, I think that when we look back over the last 25 years after the implementation or the endorsement and implementation of Kodokondog, I think it's incredible the changes we've seen in production, in consumption, and in trade. And I think one of the biggest achievement of the fish and fishery sector in this period has been its ability to produce more and to raise consumption patterns, consumption of fish and fishery products all over the world to an average today of 20, 21 kilos. And of course, this is done through increased production, through the stability of capture fisheries, but in particular the increase in aquaculture production. And of course, this reflects and responds to changes in demand and changes in the consumer habits. Now, is there a conflict between exports and local consumption? I would say no. As long as the fisheries are sustainably managed, as long as fisheries are sustainably managed, there is no problem as such in exporting products because exports are not only allowing consumers in areas with no access to waters or no lakes or no oceans, but an active population that needs a supply of fish and fishery products. But certainly it also raises the economic well-being of people in the other population in the exporting countries through job provision, through processing activities and trade and export activities. It also allows the generation of very important revenues from exports. And in fact, if you look at some of the countries with the lowest levels of consumption of fish and fishery products in the world, you still see that they do export and that they may have a net export in terms of value, but they do import more in terms of volumes than in fact the exports. So even when you have important activities in export, this also allows you to import and very often what is exported is high value species that is not always the most nutritious, lobster and other high product or high price, high valued product that allows you to import a number of much larger numbers of very nutritional fish and fishery products, such as small pelagic. And this is the pattern, for example, that you see in regions such as Africa, which prefers exporting high value products and import with the export revenues generated, very nutritious products such as small pelagic, mackerel in particular. But again, the key to this is sustainable management of the resources you have in order to enable you to continue the export in the future. That's a good point and something to keep in mind. Trade works in both directions. It's not only experts, but also imports. Next, I'd like to ask something about a new trend that we've seen. Increasingly, consumers are demanding more information about the products they consume, including about the social and environmental impacts of their production. How is this trend affecting the international trade of fisheries and aquaculture products? And how can FAO support the sector in adapting to these new trends? Well, the trade, the trend we see in which consumers and all actors, I wouldn't only eliminate the consumers, but consumers certainly, but also retailers and traders and the public at large, seeking more information about what they eat, what they consume, what they drink. And of course, this also affects us in the fishery sector. FAO, of course, supports this need and drive towards more transparency on trade, on production methods, on the legality and the origin of the product and how the fish was produced or caught or farmed and where it was caught and farmed, and what are the tools, the production methods, the nets or the trolling or the pursing or whatever is the activity or the type of farming. We all support and encourage this provision of additional information that consumers in the past did not seek as they do today. And consumers really, of course, also want to ensure that what they consume has been sustainably produced. And not only from an environmental point of view, they want to know that it has been farmed sustainably and caught sustainably, but they also want to know that it has been done from respecting the social aspects and the well-being and the livelihoods and the decent working conditions of those or the millions and millions of people, men and women that are engaged in fish and fishery products. So FAO are encouraging this. We have provided a number of guidelines, whether it's on certification as such, but also now more and more on decent work and on the social responsibility of the operators. And this is something we are not doing alone. We are doing it together with FAO members, with stakeholders, with other agencies, such as ILO, UNCTAD and others. And this is something that we are being encouraged to intensify this work. And we are doing this, in fact, right now through regional consultations, and we will bring this to the subcommittee on fish trade and then to COFI for its further recommendations on this. And just to say something finally on this, it's been very encouraging to deal with these issues. And I must say that in particular, the response from industry, whether we talk about producers or distributors or retailers, I think this support has been very encouraging and will ensure that the final result is also robust and can be useful and practical for the operators. That's great to hear. FAO isn't just on the sidelines watching these trends, but is using its convening power to bring people together to foster conversation, to reach consensus and help the industry respond. Now, changing gears, I'd like to talk about the COVID-19 pandemic. Everybody is living it and it's had a profound effect on the fisheries and aquaculture sector, like all sectors. Despite the many negative impacts caused by changes in demand and consumption patterns, as well as disruptions to supply changed, caused by mitigation measures that were put in place, particularly at the beginning of the pandemic, some positive market opportunities have also emerged. We've witnessed innovation and seen a reorientation toward local and domestic markets, as well as the creation of new products. What lessons can be learned from these opportunities? And do you think that these changes are here to stay? Of course, the COVID-19 pandemic has been a terrible event, which is still ongoing with incredible consequences for all economic sectors, including the fish and aquaculture sector. Of course, the first thing we did was to work together with the stakeholders in developing policies for how to ensure the safety, first of all, safety of the millions and millions of men and women that are engaged in fisheries or aquaculture and distribution. And then further to ensure that food production was continuing, that supplies of food and of fish and fish and products would continue to go unhindered as much as possible in order to reach consumers that need fish and fish and products. However, as you allude to, there also have been some positive outcomes or some outcomes that also have been positive. You mentioned innovation versus digitalization, and I would also say that a number of processes that we use have become safer because they've been standardized, they've become more digitalized and allowing for a smoother pattern of work. And of course, this will also make the operation in the future more smooth and easy. Also in terms of development of products and changes, we've seen development in new packaging, of course, safer and more sustainable packaging, maybe a change in sizes because of the tremendous impact on the catering sector in particular, which has then forced the operator to channel more products that direct consumption. We've seen innovation in terms of distribution and the way products are sold through electronic platforms, et cetera. So I think this is something that will remain. So it's not that the COVID has brought along so much change, it's that the speed of change has increased. We saw these trends already, but certainly the pandemic has increased tremendously the speed of change. And I think this we will only see and I think it has also opened up the minds, not only of consumers, but the operators of the many opportunities that exist out there. Now we all work virtually electronically. So I think it has also overcome the physical distance that in the past was a barrier to many of the ways and the contact that we entertain. Now I think the world has, or the sector has become even more globalized than it was. It was already one of the most globalized sectors in food production with one third of everything that is produced farmed or caught entering international trade. So among food sectors, I think it's not wrong to say that our sector is the most globalized, but this pattern of globalization has not stopped. And I think it will continue at a quicker pace than we've seen in the past. So perhaps a little silver lining to this pandemic and maybe moving forward, greater opportunities for producers and also more options for consumers. The last question I want to ask you today is related to FAO's work on fisheries and aquaculture, which is guided, of course, by the Committee on Fisheries, which is where member states consider relevant international policy issues, as well as the subcommittee that deals specifically with issues related to fish and trade. How are the decisions of these committees affecting the global seafood market? Well, as you mentioned, the FAO's Committee on Fisheries is the only international forum which really makes recommendation on issues related to fisheries and aquaculture issues, whether they relate to aquaculture production or fisheries management or trade, et cetera. And I think these meetings that take place every two years with up to 700, 800 participants are doing a very important, playing a very important role, but in order to facilitate their work, some of the technical work has to be prepared by what we call the two subcommittees, so one subcommittee on aquaculture and one subcommittee on fish trade. In particular, the one on fish trade has then developed through expert consultation, technical consultations, consultations at large with its members, with stakeholders, et cetera, in preparing the technical work that then feed into Kofi and then goes to Kofi for further endorsement. Some of the outcomes of the work of the subcommittee on fish trade, for example, are the guidelines from FAO on certification, on certification related to marine fisheries and to inland fisheries, for example. I mentioned already the guidelines on catch documentation schemes, which ensures the legality of catches of a product as they enter international trade. Also the ongoing work on social responsibility is dealt with by the subcommittee on fish trade. So again, being more specific, they're able to prepare the work at the technical level before it's moved to the higher level, to the policy level by the policy makers meeting at Kofi. So I think they're doing a tremendous work which is crucial to the work of Kofi by preparing it in detail before it goes to Kofi. Well, it's clear that the decisions of these committees in the form of the guidance they're issuing have an impact on the sector and influence the way seafood is traded. But where can industry go if they want more information about the issues and topics being considered by these two bodies? Well, the countries that come to Kofi, of course they come with all the subcommittees, come with national delegations and very often industry is represented in these national delegations through its national associations, not as individual companies. Of course, FAO is a very transparent organization and through its global project, to those of other programs, we make sure that the information we have is made available through our website, through our communication products in general. I would also say that industry, individual companies are encouraged to engage with the national or international associations and thereby interact with FAO and other agencies at the higher level. So certainly industry participation in national or international associations allow them also to interact with bodies such as the FAO. In terms of the agenda of Kofi and the subcommittees, of course, these are set in a dialogue between FAO as a secretariat and its member countries. There is a dedicated bureau of all these bodies which with national representation of the FAO members. Now, in terms of being relevant for the sector and for industry, of course, we deal mostly with policy issues, setting the agenda and therefore working on guidelines and other instrument that will one day also impact directly the operations of individual companies. And we try to be as transparent as possible in this by not only putting the agenda and the reports and all the various documents for the various meetings online, of course, well in advance of the meetings. And also I would encourage the industry and individual companies to become even more active through their national association, through international associations that have relationships with FAO and with other international agencies, whether they are Unktad or IMO or WTO for that sake. So we certainly encourage this engagement but through the FAO members and the industry association that are approved and registered NGOs and observers at our international meetings such as Kofi and the two subcommittees. Alden, it was great having you with us today. Thanks for sharing your insights and we hope to see you again soon. Well thank you Joe and I was pleased to be here. Thank you for joining this installment of Globe Fish Interviews where we speak with leading experts on international trade and fisheries. We look forward to having you with us next time when we'll continue the conversation. In the meantime, subscribe to the Globe Fish newsletter and get the latest information from our website at globefish.org. Goodbye for now.