 I know that song. Yeah, y'all. Yeah, we on box talk, one on one, one on one. Yeah, we gon' talk, we gon' have fun. We be on fire, we be Lidly. It's a unique hustle. Big shit, big shit, big shit, big shit. It's a unique hustle, nigga, big shit. Big shit, big shit, big shit. Name another podcast like this. Check it, check it, check it. It's a unique hustle. It's your boy, E-CEO. And I'm here with the lovely, amazing, outstanding. Yeah, official Mr. Maker, what's going on? None, none, you know my dad? Hey, man, we here today, man, in Los Angeles, man. My guy, Kenyatta's done put us in the showroom. Mm-hmm. Man, we on the West Coast. Yes, sir. Thank you so much, Kenyatta. Man, thank you, man. You like our brother, man, from another mother, man. That's what's up. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You on Los Angeles street, man. You on Los Angeles. Man, so, man, you. Fashion district. We going in now, man, like, what made you, this is a beautiful establishment, man. When I came in, I was floored by the way you had it laid out, man, real talk. What made you, you know, come to this location? How long you been here? What's up with this one? You've been in the clothing game forever. For ages. So, so just like. All of you don't look at. No, no, you look good. But the moves you made, how we end up here, man? Well, as it turns out, you know, I got, my first showroom was in the California mart, which was across the street. Okay. So I was brought in because I was a designer for a company called O-M-W. Okay. And one of the sales guys, you know, I befriended, you know, so after things have moved on in my life, he was like, man, you know what? You know, you should, you should come, become a rep. But I've heard no more, like, come as I've worked for it, tell me the same thing. Like, man, you should be a rep. You know, you, you know, be a good, you have a good, you get the gab and. Yeah. So he brought me on and then like, within that same year, I ended up moving here, but on the fourth floor. Okay. And I had a partner, she came in, she wanted to do a clothing line. So we was like, yeah, when we just do a showroom, I can bring the lines that I represent and we can do your brand. And she and her and her father owned M&M's on Crenshaw. Okay. And King, you know what I'm saying? So Patsy Brown, you know, props out to Patsy Brown. She's out in Vegas right now. So she's like a council woman or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's doing some big things out there. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, she became my partner and then we, you know, we ran this whole thing that I had by like 14 brands. One of the biggest brands we had was Miskine. Yeah, I remember Miskine. I love them colors that Miskine used to have. I loved it. Crazy popping colors. Yeah, so Miskine, I was the first West Coast rep for Miskine period. Wow. So I got, yeah, I got on with that one. So in case people don't remember, this was a shirt that was all hand painted. So they really hand painted every shirt. So their shirts was retailing for like 70, 80 bucks a pop. But that's crazy to be able to produce so much and it's hand painted. Yeah. How long did it take to get that merch done? Well, you know, the funny thing is, I actually flew out to Philadelphia to see how it was done. How it was done. And they have a team of like, you know, like say for instance, you have like the head artists, right? It was like four of them. So they would kind of like create the overall theme and then they will have guys kind of emulating. Just Republican. Yeah. So they did that in Philly, man. And each shirts was all hand crafted. How many pieces could they put out per order because it was hand painted? Did that limit anything? I don't know how many was able to push out, but they push out a nice amount. And I'm telling you, that was the one experience that I have of actually sitting on the top as a rep because I actually had one of the hottest brands ever. Yeah, I remember those days. I did like at one show, I kid you not, I did about four million dollars in one show. Wow. Is that the most? Four million. Is that the most you've ever done in one show even up to today? By far. Really? Nothing compares to that. Ever. Wow. And I'm talking about like, that was when magic was like four days solid. So I'm telling you like, and we opened up earlier. So I would be at the show at like seven o'clock, seven o'clock setting up, ready to go. And we would have 20, because the reason why I say four million, it was like I had the Southeast and I had the West Coast. So then we would do like classroom settings. So it'll be like a good 20, 30 buyers, but they're buying a packet about this thick. And as soon as you buying like a dozen t-shirts, you're already, so each time I'm getting a packet, that's a good 10, 15, $20,000 because at that time it was the hottest brand. Wow, you've seen these brands come and go, man. So I mean, what people wanna know, like what's the poppin' brand right now? I know pods are worth dope as hell, but like what's the one that, cause you remember when we would go to the show, Ed Hardy took over some crazy- Could you back in the day? R. Peter Christian out of J, you know, but like you knew the one that was hot cause the whole damn thing was like you said in the scheme or the whole, we would watch the motion of the people and it told you what was hot, all the buyers. You've been there, you've seen them feel like miss me jeans was, like they were just bombarding the booth. But fashion I think is not the way how it used to be. Because for the main fact that back then, if you buying an outfit, you gotta buy the whole outfit in that brand with a hat and everything to match with it. Nowadays to me, people are mix matching stuff and it's fly, as long as it's fly, that's all that matters. So people are looking for bargains and they're going over here, they're not all about labels as much anymore. That's what I'm seeing from the- What you think in Yalla? Cause you're in the middle of it. I'll tell you the truth. The truth is, okay, and I'm gonna give you an analogy, it's a massive analogy, right? Imagine if you went to one party that had like Sean Puffy Combs and Jay-Z and Gail Dash and all these big stars, you know what I'm saying? Russell Simmons and Beyonce. That's party number one, right? You know it's gonna be lit. Right. So now you got a party where you got just a whole bunch of owners that don't even know how to market their brand trying to put product out to the same consumer. It's not gonna have the same reaction. These guys, the way they ran their business was way different. Their booths were like houses, literally on the floor. They spent millions to show you what they're about. I mean, Rockaway had a booth with the Batmobile, like the real Batmobile that wasn't even out yet. The movie wouldn't even out yet but you had the Batmobile, and they just had a section in the booth just for the Batmobile. Damn. Were you guys around that time? Oh my God, like the booths, like you would go to Magic in the first bunch you would see would be like Russell Simmons. He's taking pictures with everybody. And then you got- How size daughters? Then you got his fine wife, and then you got Eve's got a brand. Everybody had a brand. Like Eve had a brand. Even Andre 3000 had a brand, so they had that. So you watch it all- And they will come out to the shows. Man, I'm telling you, you would go to these shows and it was, I wouldn't say a circus, but it was like something you've never seen before. People would actually fly out to Magic just to get into Magic. I would probably get in like 10, 15 people alone, like, hey man, I'm trying to get in, I'm trying to get in, man, but I met like Michael Jackson's father in there. Wow. You know what I'm saying? I mean, obviously Beyonce was there, Jay-Z was there. I remember when she had that brand, but I didn't know that she actually came out to the show. Oh, that was the product for Rockaway, but she probably was there for that as well. I'm gonna tell you- No, she was there for Abba Bottom too, right? No, that's not her brand. No, Abba Bottom. What's Darianna, man? Darianna. Was she there for Darianna? Exactly. Right. Yeah, she's a brand. So, and that's actually the only person I really was starstruck on. I was like- Really? Yeah, they came out of a party. We, Dave was doing a party in there, because we always have to have parties at the new hotel. Afterwards, yeah. My God, so she walked and she was about this close to me. And I'm like, I'm like, damn, that's Beyonce. That's that girl on stage. I mean, she does big things. You know what I'm saying? I ran through her whole entire resume. I was like, yo, she's standing right here. And you didn't even walk up to her, introduce yourself? No, you see this big 16. You know what I'm saying? You're like a blank. A-Z with the lips. His lips were so big, bruh. It's like, his lips would punch you. Like, it's like, I was like, I'm good. I wouldn't try to look too hard, but she was right there. And I was like, damn, that's Beyonce. Wow. Man, that's a memory that many don't have. Like, that's something that you got a whole deal because I wish I could have seen her. I definitely got punched by her. Your body got. I'm saying, how you doing? I've never met him. I've never met him to that time at it, but you're just looking up. You're like, yo, that dude is actually. Either a deal or a real deal. Yeah, he tall and you know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm simply. So that's the biggest person you've ever seen at a magic show? No. No, who is the biggest person? No, no, yeah, probably. I mean, can you get bigger than that? Beyonce and Jay-Z? Russell Simmons? Not really. I mean, who you want? Buster Rhymes? How you surrounding Buster Rhymes? I mean, who else you want to talk to? Who else is it? Massey Pease would come with 50 models. Oh, he did come by there? No, he had a booth. He had his brand. He would bring 50 models to the show, 50. So he had all the chicks walking around the show. It was crazy. And then like, you know, obviously you got Sean, John. Yeah. So Sean Public Combs was in there. You know, you're talking car. I mean, I watched the whole party. So do you think you'll ever go back? Cause we came in on the tail end of it where we did see a couple of celebrities there. What was your first year of magic? 2007, eight? No, yeah, 2008. 2008. Oh yeah. Okay. So you definitely was at a hearty. Yeah, yeah. At a hearty, Gucci, all of that. So the tail end of it. We've seen the tail end of it. Nothing like you explained. Nothing like people like you talking about. Lil Wayne, we saw him there. Birdman, Rick Rose, Cameron, everybody in there now. All of those. Don't get it twisted. Don't get it twisted. The new people were there. But the people you're talking about was like the older, you know what I mean? Like this one, it was real. And the money was lucrative. It was, it was, it was on. Damon Dash was there. Yeah, we met him in the end. But here it was. 2007, 2008 was still a good time for the whole industry. I mean, the, I mean, the clubs were still popping. I mean, you still had a lot of the experiences. I just think that the best time for magic was when Fubu was at his height. Cause they threw the absolute best parties ever. At the Rum Jungle, at the Mandalay Bay. Man, I mean, oh, man. I, I, King Capri was a DJ. These guys, what they would do it, they would actually bring in a bus load of models from LA and have them just dancing with you. And you didn't know. You thought that maybe your game was just that tough. Dead, I'm dead. And it's like you had King Capri and he was just killing the ones or two. But then they would have a whole hour open bar. Wow. Fly's Club with, with fire and all kind of stuff. And it was huge. And I'm telling you, man, you was dancing the whole entire night. And he was like, yo, this is the most amazing part I've ever been to. And I've been to every party. Now I understand you. Because when we was at the LRG party, he was so depressed because they wouldn't dance. And I remember Kenya, I was like, what is this? Like they were just standing up, trying to be cool. Kenyatta was like, this ain't nothing, man. Like you remember it was the inside. It had a pool inside and everything. It was dope look, but Kenyatta was depressed. Because he's seen way better. He's seen way better. That's the problem. Yeah. And I thought it was a dope party though. Cause we got the pool in here. Cause you have seen what he had seen. I'm like, he's like, man, he was just standing around. They ain't really doing it. So do you think it ever gonna come back? Do you think it, cause you know evolution goes around and come right back around again. So do you think it's gonna, and when? See the thing is for me, I actually want this to happen because like you need somebody like myself or somebody of that era to let you understand. Like I want positive where to do that. I want positive where to come back with a big investor, with big money and just do something that big. Because I'm telling you, these guys are trying to penny pinch as much as they can to just, and don't understand it. Like this is supposed to be, it's like when you go to like a major convention center, just say like the, what is it, the Comic Con. You're not gonna go there with a little booth of Comic Con. Nobody's gonna say nothing to you. You want the biggest, baddest thing. You know what I'm saying? Can you imagine going to Comic Con and it just be just a couple guys with a couple tables? You won't even look at it two times. You know what I mean? It's like, you're not gonna do that. So that's what they're doing to our industry right now. So when you go to magic now, it's like, you don't want to have no models in there. So you're not bringing no models. You know what I'm saying? Isn't that, they're not allowing you to do this stuff, they're stipulating it? No, no. People don't want to spend the money. Oh, they don't want to. So you can come in. You sure they can? I don't think minus. So you can, okay. So you can get it. I can be a model. You know what I'm saying? Like, why can't you just, No, so you can come in with a bag and create all of the stuff that you're talking about that was done back in the past and start trend again. Absolutely. I would do it that way. I would do it another way. I wouldn't go to magic or project and it not be a big presentation. You have to, people will grab it, especially our culture. We gravitate towards the best. We don't want nothing but the best. You know what I'm saying? The reason why I could say like, I love a Samsung, but y'all be like, that ain't the best phone. The best phone's an iPhone. Which is a lie. But what I'm saying is, it don't matter. We want the best. We don't want second best. We don't want cricket. We want to make sure we pay for the highest creme that they creme. So you have to present that image. This is why we gravitate to Gucci and Louis and all that. Why? Because when they do a presentation, it's huge. It's over the top. You know, it's billboards, it's movies, it's TV, it's everything. Now these guys just like, they don't have no clue on how to market a brand. Not an ounce. And I'm trying to help them because I'm like, look, at the end of the day, as a sales rep, I gotta help you do your brand better because I can't eat if you don't do it. Like, you know, when, let's say, a coup when it was at its height, right? Let's say around 2015. T.I. had a big bus, a big tour bus, wrapped, completely wrapped. In a coup. In a coup. And then that was getting publicity. And then he would also do, you know, like he would go to the stores and do signage and whatnot. And that was big. And then he had the most wanted tour, which was him, Lil Wayne, and two chains. That was, at that time, was one of the biggest concerts, you know, touring. So, you know, that made us huge. We ate. Fantastic. So, you're telling me right now, we're closing this concern. Do you actually reap the benefits when you have a brand ambassador wearing it that, you know, people follow in and they see them wearing it? They'll be like, do you see your sales going up now? Kind of back then, it definitely helped. But in the industry that we're in right now, does that work still? I think that, okay, so if you're trying to build a brand, okay, you have to come from a marketing aspect. Because if you have a hot t-shirt or a hot denim for the moment, that's for that season. What's next? What you got? I mean, I can tell you a number of brands that have came and went and be a young boy. That brand was popping. Where'd it go? You know what I'm saying? The baby. He had a brand. I mean, here's one of the biggest artists. You know what I'm saying? The baby came out. He was at his height and all of a sudden, boom, he got canceled. Where's the brand now? You know, these brands don't even have a life longer than two years, if that. And it's because they try to do an item, they try to do something that's hot and then it's like, oh, but you don't have a comeback. You gotta have a design team. You have to have a creator that can create and morph into all the different fashions that pop up. But you have to market your brand. You gotta put it out there where people see it and in a lot of different areas, it's not just a influence. It's like all the influencers. You want all the influencers. You want every bit of exposure you can get. Instagram is not it. They're making it super tight for you to do anything on Instagram to make any money off of. You gotta spend so much money with them. But they're gonna start putting a lot of people that have nothing to do with your industry just so you can look at the numbers and feel good about yourself. But the bottom line is what moves stuff is the people who wear clothes. They know what's up. If you see the important person that's fresh, it's like, man, that's a nice fit. And he's famous. You're gonna figure out what that fit is. Well, you say the mouthful because that's what you mentioned Fubu early and that's what, what's that boy named to be on that shark tank? The boy was, yeah, Damon John. Damon John. That's what he was saying about L.L. wearing that Fubu hat in that commercial. It blew him up. It was a gap commercial. It blew it out the water. That was a nationwide campaign for Gap. He actually had the Fubu sweatshirt on. It wasn't just the hat. He had Fubu, but it was tone on tone. He just had the FB. They didn't know. They didn't know. And it blew it out. It was free marketing. Yeah. But at that time, everybody was, I mean, it was not one corner you was turning. If you turn on the TV, you saw Fubu. If you turn over the magazines with Fubu. You know, the thing is, you know, I know people would be like, oh, I prefer the phone over a magazine. But the fact of the matter is, is your phone is only showing you an image that big. A magazine is this big. You know, a bi magazine was like 11 by 17. So you're seeing detail. You know what I'm saying? When you see an ad, you're seeing a big ad, like almost holding like a tablet that's 11 by 17. You know, and it's just that, you know, these guys don't know what they're doing. So the guys who are on the mic right now, the things that are running things right now are not the ones that should be running things. But they got the money, but the fact of the matter is, the reason why they're not doing nowhere near the numbers we were doing, just to give you a prime example, right? If you was a 20 million dollar company right now, you'd be the biggest thing right now in the business. But 20 million for us was a beginner brand. You've been to New York frequently a lot. You're on the West Coast. Both of y'all got set flavors on how you wear your apparel. Like which coast, I know you from this coast, and you know clothing, you know it. When you think about the different ways that the clothes are being worn, what do you prefer? How do you look at stylist? I think that, you know, a lot of people think, for some reason that New York is the one who drives the fashion business, but that's not true. That's why I asked. It's the West Coast. We run that. You see the West Coast or the South? Cause the South kind of runs- Are you being biased because you're from up here? Exactly. I wanna hear you spill, cause I know you would know cause you've given your life to this. Well you gotta imagine, think about like, think about some of the biggest stars in basketball. Who's that? You know what I'm saying? Look, Ron James. Yeah. Well that's West Coast. But the styles are different because, reason why people always say New York, because New York deals with a lot of cold weather, the layering and the way how their swag is. I love it. I love the way how they dress, you know, in their fashion. L.A. is more beachy, you know, shorts everywhere, no matter the weather. I love that. So hold up, so hold up. So who's wearing the combative shirts? New Yorkers or West Coast guys? West Coast. Thank you. So combative shirts and matching shorts and all that, that comes from a, you know, a place with some sunshine. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So winter, winter seasons, New York got you off. Think about it. Think about it. Shorts and the hoodie. You think that came from? Yeah, yeah. That's a heated area, yeah. You gotta have, because I hear it be sunny, but then it be cold at night. So you gotta have your sweatshirt on. You're not doing that in New York like that. You're wearing a straight hoodie and some jeans and your little Timberlands, whatever. But when it comes to the, Whatever. When it comes to the real fashion, think about the Hootie Mom, I mean the, The Hootie Daddy. The Hootie Daddy shorts. Where do you think that came from? It came from y'all? You think it came from the south? You wouldn't find dead in the south with some shorts like that, right? It came from the West Coast. It came from the West Coast. You look at the LeBron James. No, it came from Atlanta. You're looking at it. You're looking at LeBron James. You're still wearing them. The Hootie Daddy shorts playing basketball. You gotta play basketball now. Even shorter now, you know what I mean? Comes from the West Coast, I'm sorry. T-shirts, all them bright colors and all that kind of. I think, like I said, I had to ask you that question because you wanted that could answer it. You know what I mean? Because of you. Rob Denim brands come from where? New York. No, truth comes from here. I remember True Religion and all the ones that was there. Yeah, where is it? Where's Laguna Beach? Even Rock Revivals, all that stuff's right here. You know. So it's a Christian out of your area? Yeah. So that was a good question because I knew you would. When you get that rock and roll feel from them. You ain't getting rock and roll guys on that New York. It's Hollywood. It's Rock and Roll, Hollywood. Yeah. Come on, man. I just had to ask that question because I knew you could be the best guy to answer that because you've been in it forever. Like you, you one of those guys that, like I said, they sleeping on you for a lot of time because of the way you did early on with your brand, you didn't really just push it to, where you was, you was romantic with your brand. You didn't want everybody to just take your brand and do this or that with it. You held your brand to where you controlled the market with your brand. Yeah. It could have been a big mistake though, right? I mean, like I said, the only guys that went back in that time was guys out of. Carl Canine. Well, what I'm saying, like you had those guys, but that was the only West Coast company you could think of was Carl Canine Cross Colors, which was really Cross Colors and Carl Canine. But the guys like the Fubus and all that, they was financed by the guys out in New York. New York for sure. So they was the ones spending the big money. I wasn't trying to move to New York. I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I love my people in New York. Like my dad started a family from New York, you know, but nah, I couldn't do it. I couldn't live out there. I couldn't move out there. But for a lot of those guys that I know that actually got big deals, they all, I would say 90% of the deals they got hit the wrong way. What do you think you'll see this time in Magic? You've been going there forever. Like, what do you think we're gonna see when we get there this time? I know it's been crazy. You know, I know it's been, they stopped it for one time. And during COVID, I had never seen nothing like that. And I don't know if you had, but it had been going on consistently so many years with the stop and then start back. How much do you think that hurt it? That's one of the questions. But secondly, what do you expect to see there, you know? Well, I don't really expect anything different from what I saw last time. Okay. You know, I just think that, you know, a lot of, in fact, there's a few brands that were there last time that are not showing up this time. Wow. Because. So it's getting scantier and scantier. I mean, last year, you know, a lot of brands made a lot of money that they shouldn't because there was a lot of government money out there. Yeah, there's a lot of money being passed out at BP. The streets had the money, man. We had that PPP money all day. It was crazy. I don't know if you, man, were you guys open during that time? No, we've been conservative. Man, y'all missed out on some good money. I ain't gonna lie. I am not gonna lie. It looked like the whole pen and tension would show up. I'm not even lying, man. It was a store out in Linwood I visited and we was just chopping it up. And I've never seen more than maybe like five people in the store, you know, but they was flooding in this store. It was so uncomfortable. I had to leave. I was like, man, this is too much. Wow. This was like straight County Jails up in here spending his breath. Oh. I kid you not, man. So it's like, yeah, I think a lot of people made so much money in last year but now that the money's stopped, now people are like, all right, so what are we competing against? It's not just that. It's not that we like the clothing brands are competing against other clothing brands. The clothing brands are competing against iPhones, you know, diamond chains now. Now you gotta get checked on your chain. Dudes are really checking if you got real diamonds on your chain. So you can't have that little cheap little $10,000 chain. You gotta have that $1,700. You got that BitBoy. Yeah, so you gotta have that. Watches came back. So now you got the, you know, diamond studded Rolexes. You know, that's a big deal. So these guys are walking around pretty much with like two, $300,000 on a person. But we're closing is concerned or any company right now, a lot of companies are saying Amazon is really running a lot of people out of business because everybody likes to go to that one-stop shop, go online, click order, here it comes. So far, it means so far as stores are concerned like they're breaking more. Stores, clothing brands that are not on there because, you know, they do sell clothes too, apparel. Yeah. You know, they do both high end and the lower end. I think it goes back to marketing. It goes back to marketing. The thing is, we're talking about like in my industry, I've always been in the streets. You know what I'm saying? So I've always gravitated towards that urban customer that was like on the next fashion trend. You know what I'm saying? The guys jumping on that spins big bread. You know, these guys are walking home. You know, they are here putting, you know, you see that stuff in the videos when they laying that out like that, they laying that out buying some jeans for real. That was before they was fanning that on Instagram. That was like, and they just adding up so they can get that whole pile of clothes they just laid up on there. There's some real ballers out there cause people don't know these little youngsters, you know, when we was coming up in the game, a millionaires, hood millionaires, but they got cash. And they was spending big money. Got it. He just had it. I remember it was some times when some brothers had it in the streets where I know, you know, you got a male ticket, but he could do what he wanted to do with it, but he got it. Yeah. So PPP was like the new version to crap. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, just having that money for that quick run around. I mean, that amount of hustles, I think they stole somewhere like close to $250 billion for the tax money. So with that being said, you don't feel like this is gonna have the impact that it had before the last time. And yeah, I could agree. But as far as what, last time you was there, was it any brand that stuck out to you? Outside of the ones that you of course look at every day? Well, okay. So in my industry, that's your cookies, that's your BBC, ice cream. You know, those are the, what I consider the guys. Premium, the big boy. No, those are the ones I compete against. Cause I, you know, I do a cool, I do a hustle game, we do part of individual outreach, you know. And we also picked up Tango Hotel. Whoa. Okay. So those are some, but the guys that we compete against is the BBC, the ice creams and the cookies. And at that time, cookies was doing pretty, you know, doing pretty good. So their booth was probably the busiest booth. But again, it wasn't a big to do. It was a regular 10 by 20 booth with some chairs, you know, not a build out, nothing. And I was like, I can't believe that even a brand is big. This is how you guys are going to do what you're going to do. You know, cause even my mirror, a cool, it's like we used to own a house. I used to kill it. You used to kill it. I was proud to, I was proud to be able to get into the a cool booth for the way, like, I'm like, like when you go to the club, like me on them back in the day, you never watch New Jack City. Oh, y'all going to frisk me? Like this is where you had to be. Most niggas was stuck outside. Hey man, I know him. No, I don't know that cat. Like he couldn't get in. Yeah, this is the way it was. Like I was like, no, I don't know that cat. No, I never did. I don't play those games, man. I'm in here with my people, you know, cause we really rocking. And I took pride in that. And then you come back and then you see, I could just disintegrate it to this. I'm like, man, this is depressing. It looks like. It kills me, man. It looks like they put this in a, like back in the day that you used to have a section called a new edition section. So before you would get on the main floor, they had another section for all the new brands and they call it a new edition. We spent even more money than these guys spending. They're like, look, let's just get a rat. I'm like, no, don't do that to yourself, man. Cause I don't know for me personally, like I think presentation says everything. You know, I've had this show and I spend good money on this show. I know. For a reason. For the presentation. You know, for things like this, you know, for people walking here and they're like, oh, they're going to take you a little bit more serious. Serious? They're like, oh, okay. This guy's not a, there's not a game, you know? Cause I don't like to talk a lot. He's like, so I was like, yo, I do this. I do that. Like, look, man, you need to know, you know, don't know me. If you know me, then you know what's up. But I don't have, I don't want this city and be like, I'm braggadoce and I try to live a, a peaceful, simple life, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to do all that. But I love this business and I don't want to see it fail. I wanted to keep going, keep thriving because my customers ain't having left. They still there. They still like, I mean, we still like to, the thing is our clothing is, is what I consider one of the fastest gratifications you're going to get. You know, you get your brand, brand new pair or Jordan's or whatever, somebody's going to say something to you, it's going to make your day. Just like when you get your hair done, your make, you know, your nails done, whatever the case is, you're like, yo, this is why you spend that bread. Right. You know, women that spend how much for a weave? Come on, man. Let me ask you this. You got a couple of sons, you got sons, right? So could you ever see your, your sons getting into the apparel business? You know, I've actually introduced, yeah, actually I do. I think the funny thing is both of my sons are very fashion oriented, you know what I'm saying? And one of them actually does the haircuts in the house and all the twisting, all the braiding and stuff, but they stay fresh and they stay, you know, on the current trends. Look at the dad. So I've actually, you know, so, but you know how it is. It's like I'm the dad, you can't be cool. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's impossible. You know what I'm saying? They don't look at you like that. No, no, no, no. But that swag is different. And I think that, I think if anything, they're going to be entrepreneurs because they kind of see the hustle. Yeah. But I've actually brought my oldest Cheylin into it. And so he's actually, you know, seeing me at work. You know, I just wish that he seen me at work when we was at a height. Right now, I got to tell you, this is probably the hardest, this year has been probably the hardest I've ever seen it on this business. Yeah. Well, one thing about it, it could turn at the blink of an eye. But right now with the way things are, I think that was a boss talk move was because of the way it looked. It's like, what are we going to do to maintain? But I love the business. I like, I love this culture. It ain't really about the money as much as about the culture and about our people seeing us in position. That's more important than anything to see you in position here. It does everything for me. I've been sitting here for a few days now. I hadn't seen another brother come by here. I'm just being real with you. You can see that it's a need for these five people, bro. Oh, absolutely. And that's the part where I'm kicking in the way I was is, it's like, they got to see this, man, because they don't even know why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because you need to see us in a position to where you can be respected and you can see that we can do this. Well, it's great that you're able to control your media. This is your show. Yeah. You know, nobody's sitting on top of you in your ear talking about, hey, to ask them this question. No, I am not. The only thing that's asking that question is your heart right there. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And your creative ways of coming up with some of the best questions ever, man. See me on it, man. Oh my goodness. Man, we be having some good times, man. We didn't, oh man, we'd have some moments, man. Like in a lot of times it's just, like I said, it's God more than anything, but just our people, man, getting to be able to speak with them, being able to understand our ministry and trying to help the people. That's what it's all about. But then the service, being servants, like you're doing here, having something to where our people can come and be proud of, hey, man, this who we are. Look at how you dress, man. Look at, look at how, not just a boss talk. I mean, that's just a boss talk. Oh boy. No, the boss talk is dope, but I'm just saying every time I've seen you, you saucy, man, like. You too though. No, no. I'm okay. I love that jeans that I fit you had on yesterday. It went hard too. It went hard every time. Hold up, hold up. He had to shoes that match of jeans off and on. Man, you're not playing. Like this is kidding, you have to say it, man. I mean, hey, hey, man, this dude, they're different. And I love that, man, cause I know that you say fashion, you serious about it and that you can't do nothing but be respected. Nah, I've seen, I kid you not, I've seen this industry pretty much at its height for, I've been going to magic since 93. Wow. That's crazy. But imagine I was 20. 93. Yeah, I was 23 at that age. 23, man. No, no, no, people gonna start calculating. 23, 93. 23, man, I've seen it all, but the thing is, the thing is, I've been to the parties. I've been, you know, we used to talk about Mike Tyson. We would go to the parties and be rubbing elbows with Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying? The young Mike Tyson, not the old one. Yeah, the young dude. You know what I'm saying? That pit bull. I was about to say that pit bull. I mean, Clark and I would throw a party at the Rio, man. And we have like two story suites, two story suites, not just a room, two story suites. And we'll have them directly across from one another. And we're sitting there flipping shrimps all night. I mean, this is kind of stuff we was doing. What's the wildest thing you've seen at any of those celebrity parties? Like how juicy you want it? I want it to be way juicy. Drippin', droppin' on the floor. No, I can just give her a little sauce. She don't give a too much. I don't think. Just give me some. I don't think it was any juicy. I mean, we're just, I don't know, we were just young. It was a movement, man, that's what. Like, you see me now as this dude was in his 50s. But you gotta imagine, I was once a young man, you know what I mean? And we was, man, like, I'll give you an example, like we used to do a suite right at the mirage. So our situation was just about as freaky as it, you know, some of the other situations because it's like, we would have a, so our spot was like 2,000 square feet, you know, with the marble floors. We had the TV, they came at that time, the TV, they came out the cabinet, you know, the big mirror, you know, ceiling and all that, you know, with the big, jacuzzi bathrooms and all that. So we would throw our own parties and they would come to our parties like this, you know, like this, like Carl and I would come to our joints, you know what I mean? So we asked, I actually created the, I actually had a thing called the black magic. So what we did was, it was me, the first time we did was, Cross Colors was in the building and then we had Maurice Malone. You remember that brand, Maurice Malone? Yeah, I do, I do. You remember Maurice Malone? That was like one of the top denim brands we had during that time. So, so Maurice Malone and myself, we did the suite together. Maurice Malone wrote a million dollars in that suite. Mm, a million, physical dollars. Yes, he wrote a million dollars. Ertus Pratt out of Detroit came down and ran at and we was in there together, me, you know, Positware and Maurice Malone. And we was in there doing our things and then eventually like brands like, you don't probably know what it was brand, but School of Hard Knocks. Okay. You remember them? Mm-hmm. Anyway, so we would do these things. So eventually that turned into a whole floor of upcoming brands that we did and we called it the Black Magic. Oh, okay. So you would go there and this was like, these suites were like, I would say almost two stories high, you can kind of, they're the ones at the very top of the Mirage Hotel. So it's tall and you can see the whole, the backdrop is the whole Vegas, you know, marble floors, you got the kitchen and all that kind of fun stuff. So we had, that was a hell of a time because we would stay there. You get what I'm saying? So the party would last. All night. All night and in the morning time. All night and in the morning time too. Yeah. You feel me? It's a big party. Because back in those days, we didn't be like, oh, you would get you, no, we all staying in this room. So the whole crew, where we came through. So. Kicking it. Man, you know, it was, the guy, man, R.I.P. to him, I can't even name the one that was, he was with Miskine at the end. The guy, A.Z. A.Z. man. That's my dude. When I used to go, A.Z. was one of those guys that I expected to see at the show, bro. Dude. I tell you, me and him were at Black Expo's before there was Magics. You feel me? Yeah. Me and him was there. Like, so when you say there's somebody that actually was there since the beginning, it was like me, him, Kalk and I, Carl Jones, you know what I'm saying, T.J. Walker. Those were the, to me. And then even the Shabazz brothers. A lot of people don't know about the Shabazz brothers. The Shabazz brothers was the first street hustling T-shirt guy. So they had all the Mountain Luther Kings and all that. So, you know, a real talk. We used to do these Black Magics out in, not Black Magics, but Black Expo's in New York. And that was a huge event, man. I mean, you're talking hundreds of thousands of people will show up. A.Z.'s thing was he was Red Man's cousin, wasn't he? Well, I don't know about that, but I know that he- Yeah, he was one of those guys' cousin. I know he told me that. Well, he ran with Kalk and I. So him and Kalk and I was like, that was one set, you know what I'm saying? So you think about Kalk and I, he had this pretty A.Z. in here. So he saw the height. I mean, Kalk and I was probably one of the biggest brands ever. And Kalk and I did it right. Like his presentation was crazy. And then A.Z. seen all that, you know? Man, you know, I met Kalk and I through hanging around, you really hanging around and just meeting him and talking with him and now talk to him on the phone. It's crazy how it's just like, you in this game, but you don't know the essence of how important these building blocks have been to keep the culture going, to keep the brands going. And these guys, you guys are patriarchs when they come down to that man. So you should be proud of that. Castle understand that when these guys were hot, there wasn't a block you can walk down without seeing somebody wearing some Kalk and I. That's how I remember, that's how Kalk killed it. That's how tight that was. So you talking about like, oh, you might see one guy went wearing this T-shirt, that T-shirt. I'm talking about the whole entire culture, rock cross colors, Kalk and I. Then when football came and blew it out the box, everybody was wearing an FB football jersey all day long and you know, rocker bears or Sean Johns and all that. And then the LRGs came into the world. Man, I mean, you know, this culture nowadays can't even hold a candle to any of that. No, and you can't, man. And when you look at just like some of these brands, man, that they fly by night, you can tell the essence is not there. I seen some brands come and go, I mean, shout out to Boosie when he first came home from prison. He was rocking out, he had Mike Wagman. They was, he was doing this thing. A cool booth was biggest held in. And I was like, man, when I talked to him, I was like, man, I like your brand, man. I said, I'm gonna rock with it. He looked over there. I was like, but I rock with a cool. I said, a cool, they show me so much love, man. And I told his dude that. And Boosie was like, nah, a cool or whatever, man. That's T-I brand. I'm gonna be way, you know how you do it. I'm gonna be way bigger than that. You'll see. And I was like, man, you got to come on with it, bro. Cause I knew the team and the structure, the backbone that was in a cool compared to what he was dealing with. And in order to do what you guys actually were able to accomplish, you have to have a infrastructure like crazy. You have to have some people who are breathing and living this stuff, man. And he didn't understand that. Cause you can look at something on the outside and you could think in your mind that I can do this. But you don't understand the T-I cool. Don't get, he's a hell of a rapper. But that infrastructure that you guys had or have, the one that you guys had created when Lisa was there, I'm telling you that it was to be respected, Ralph. And I knew what was behind it. And you guys on the forefront, you and Jerry and him, I knew it wasn't gonna be easy to cope with cause y'all heart and the way y'all come from, it's totally there. I done had them conversations with Ralph and he like, man, I remember I did this and Ludacris did this and we'd meet him just be talking about the old times. He came through a lot to get to where he had as well. Just like you, it's like y'all dope, bro. And the way y'all get in. He had the real brand RP55. He had the real, I mean RP55 was, you know, well, Reynolds Perry was, you know. So I remember I used to, you know, I have a couple of pictures with Ralph when he was, you know, when he was building that brand. And then he came up with, you know, the, what was it, I forgot the other brands he had. Azuray and he had Indigo Reds. Yeah, Azuray for sure. And he had some, I mean, the Indigo Reds booth was like really, really nice. I mean, I didn't get a chance to see what the brand looked like cause I think for a lot of these companies, they don't know what it's, they don't know how to build that brand on the West Coast. Yeah. You know, a lot of these guys there, they're good with the South, they're good with maybe the North, the Northeast. But when it comes to, when it comes to the West Coast, this is why, you know, I do what I do because I understand this business a lot better than I would say a lot of these companies don't understand the kind of monies here. If you blow up here, you can make some good money. Yeah. Plus the exposures here. Yeah. I mean, think about it, all the TV shows, you just had another big-time actor in here, like that, and that was like nothing to you. But this guy is like everywhere. Yeah. You know, and then it's like, you know, these are the guys that are walking down the street every day. It's like there's so much production. I mean, you had Kenya Ware up in here. Man, come on. And I mean, she's doing all kinds of stuff with, you know, with Bobby Brown and, you know, the mask, what does it come? The mask? The mask singer. The mask singer, I mean, but it's just like, man, everything is out here, man. And it's funny how companies don't really realize how much opportunity you have right here in Los Angeles. Because a lot of these companies are, the companies now are pretty much based in the East Coast and they just, they don't have the respect. They don't think that, they don't think that, you know, it's popping out here. It's like it's popping every day. In fact, I can spend every day just talking to stylists getting on a next show, the next show, the next show, just on that. And on top of the fact, the Lakers out here, the Clippers out here, someone like, I'm just, you laughing, but think about that for a second. That's crazy, like, the impact that's out here is crazy and I don't think people give it this just like you're saying, I agree. Like look at Russell Russel's brand. It's gonna blow up. Yeah. You know, honor the, honor the, honor the, what is it called? I've got this honor the gift, honor the gift. This is a brand. It's gonna blow. It's blowing up now. I miss coming out there right now. This is a brand called the gallery department. You ever seen that? No. Manum t-shirts was everywhere. All this is, it says gallery department Hollywood. That's it. It's a $500 t-shirt. Wow. And that's all it says. And he's getting it. What's the quality like? Haines B.P.T. How that boy is a genius. $500. And he's getting $500. Yes. Who's buying it? All the celebrities because I'm telling you, all the stylists are out here. All the, you know, you think, the NBA has changed into a fashion show. These guys really spend big bread on their shoes and their gear and their stylists. And they're getting their fashion from here, from LA. Wow. Do you, man, do you think that we can turn this thing around? Do you think that God just may be leaving a gap so we can get in position? Like, maybe they don't see it in New York or maybe they don't see it in other places. But because we are able to see it here ourselves, maybe we can change the mode. That $500 t-shirt a damn show do it. Listen, man, marketing entails everything. Marketing, right. It goes all the way back to marketing. Because think about it, man. You gotta think about it like this, man. You know, we do a lot for our ladies, for our attraction to ladies, you feel me? And the bottom line is that, you know, anything that can speak for you, you're gonna spend that bread on. Because these women are definitely checking out your fit. They're counting on everything you've got, you know what I'm saying? Like, she might look at that guy with like, oh, I like the way you put that together. But these young ones nowadays, they like, hmm, Louis Belt. You got that. Then look at the shoes first. What kind of shoes you wearing? Yeah, you got those, okay. Balenciaga's own, you got that, and Mary Jean's, hmm, okay, so that's $400, $500, $2,000, okay. You got the, oh, I see the bag you got. You got that Burberry bag. That's $1500. It's going down. Like all the t-shirt, okay. What kind of t-shirt are you rocking? I'm like, you know what I'm saying? It's like Gucci, then it's like the hat. I mean, it's like, it's weird. You see the chain and all these girls is like, yo, this dude's a walking crib right now. Damn. Man, hey, thank you for coming on the show, man. We love Kenyatta, man. Kenyatta opened the doors up in here for us, man. We downtown LA, man. Vision Sale, baby. Hey, man, every time we been here, he brought us last time when we was over. What was we at? We was at the Playa Vista at Mad Arca. Yeah, now here we are. We definitely at home base right now. I feel real good. This is the Vision Sales headquarters right now. Check it, man. Hey, man, my boy Kenyatta Sands, man. We love you. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. Boss Talk, where the bosses talk? That's what I'm saying. There we are.