 We're glad to know you're still there. It's still the breakfast on PlusCV Africa. It's time to look at the headlines on our national dailies and we're glad to be joined by our public affairs to analysts, Mr. Ezekiel Nyaetok. Good morning and welcome to the program, sir. Good morning, always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. I always have it, you know, my lips always shake. I want to call you chief. Maybe that's what I should be calling you. Chief Ezekiel, it's time you. Well, there are two things. The title is good. I actually hold about the highest title, which is of Tuwe Kong, which is like Ariel Nuka Kanfo, which is like general. Wow. But I like the architect with it because I worked for it for six years of hard labor. So they acquired a version of Ariel Nuka Kanfo. You hold that title. Tuwe Kong, yes. That is the general. When you said highest title, I was thinking only of Parawa. Parawa. That's for the young people. But you look young, sir. You look young. So now we're starting. I don't want to be 60. Oh, well, it's still young. You're 60 years young. OK, well, if you had won the election, or if you win your case in the tribunal, if it's still going on, because the last time you just told us that it was trok of because you didn't pay the monies that you were supposed to pay and they just removed it. No, we paid off. No, we paid off. The amount they wanted. One million security deposit. The young came on and said, I shouldn't have paid one million. I should have paid 10 million. I said, OK, I'll pay. They said, no, too late. They struck it off. So we now went on appeal, which we are going to win. OK, well, if you win, that means that your salary will now be increased to 114%. I'll say this on national television that I'll be the first person to kick against that and say, I will not be on salary. Interesting. Because, you know, there's so much. Let me tell you something. It just pains me, the hypocrisy that we have. In a Kwaibom state, the governor is entitled to what they call security vote every month that is over two billion naira. Every month, security vote. You understand me? Please, what do you use that money for? And you don't account to anybody. Second. Yeah, but now I'm saying this because there is this from the Revenue Mobilization and Physical Commission that they have said public office holders, judges, the president, the governors, and the likes will have their salaries increased by 114%. So I'm just picking your thoughts there. Because even if you say that you are not going to be on salary, what if this becomes a reality? What are your thoughts about what the RMAFC is saying? Two things. The first is that the concept of emotional intelligence is lacking in a public sector. The Bible says all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient. This is a time that Nigerians are suffering. And we fail to understand the essence, the matching order, the fundamental of government, which is clearly captured in the Constitution, Chapter 2, Section 14, Subsection 2b. It states that the security and welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. That couldn't have been better put. The security and welfare of who? The people. And it doesn't take rocket science for you to understand who the people are, which is the generality of the people. There is a shall. And legal patterns shall is stronger than must. Once you say it's shall, it is something you don't debate, you don't contest, it is mandatory, it is obligatory. Be the primary. Primary means the fundamental, the foundational purpose of government. If you just read that, then why is it that the welfare of the public office holders that we have been complaining over time there is too much? Before we came on air, I was listening to your analysis, look at what they get. For instance, housing allowance, take what you said, which is very correct. Now, on the average, it's going to be about $50 million. What do you do? Do we live in space? I know that $50 million means that the senators may take $60, and then the House of Rebs may take $40. But I ask you, I live in Abuja, and I live in a very, very, very, very comfortable accommodation, befitting of any senator. And I know that that property has a certain cost range that is less than half. OK, you must live in Ahsoka or you must live in Maidama, even at that. I'm a property person. Are you buying the property? What is your understanding? Then you still have, like you said, newspaper allowance, who is reading newspaper, wardrobe allowance. All those things, did you come to this place not having what to wear or something? I will say this, and I say it on national television. There's a man that I have so much respect for, and I will call his name because he will not like it, but it doesn't matter. Distinguished Senator Udo Udama, he was appointed, given ministerial appointment, he turned it down twice. People say twice, but I said I know twice during President Abbas and Justine. Yara Dua came in, even the last president, knowing that he was a PDP member, still appointed him as minister. And when the channel was over, he called him back. He said, you know what he said? He said, sir, I won't be able to take it. Do you know why? Because I suspend my business and I take care of myself for four years of an administration and I come out a poorer person. Now that sounds ridiculous. That sounds preposterous. That sounds unbelievable, but it's a fact. That's why I called his name. You go in there to serve the people. You didn't go in there as a popper. You go in there as somebody who has certain level of capacity. So you're not going in there for Nigerians to make you look like you never had the means of livelihood. Why should they govern on? And today, I served as a national chairman of Young Democratic Party. I gave them one year of my life. During that one year, I took no salaries. I took nothing I gave and gave and I thought I'm gonna do more than one year because that's the much I can take from my own personal, you know, sacrifice. When you go to serve, do you go to serve the nation or you go to be served? So what ramfuck or whatever the revenue and whatever mobilization, what they've done is just, is just they are there inciting the society. And what I expect is for Mr. President to come out and say, if you're going to be my cabinet member, you're coming in for sacrifice. We're asking Nigerians to tighten their belt. We must start by tightening my belt as the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. God has blessed me. I don't want any salary. Secondly, I'm gonna appoint the rest of you if you're coming on your understanding that you're coming in to serve. As a result, all these jumper packages, they are there, but you can personally decline. If you accept to take half of what has been going on because I'm asking Nigerians to tighten their belt, then come on my cabinet. If you do not want to take it, then please leave it. I want people who are coming to serve. I want people who are coming to sacrifice so that at the end of the day, when I call on Nigerians to sacrifice, they will know that I'm leading from the front. And what I ask them to do is what they are gonna do. That's a sort of emotional intelligence, a sort of connect that a president will make with the people. But if President Bola Akme Tinnubu or Boham Tinnubu signs that stuff, which from what you rightly acknowledge, they are not saying we've not done it. They are saying it's not yet accented to what means it's already been done. If he accents to it, I'll be very, very, very disappointed. Let's stay with the punched newspaper here right now. There's a smaller story, the headline up there, where you find DSS, Combs, Bowers, Abuja Home, extends proof to associates. So now, just yesterday, some civil society organizations, a coalition of them now were telling the president that he has to come out with a definite statement about how he's going to fight corruption, what he stands on corruption is, because from campaigns to after he has taken the reins of power, apart from the fact that he has fired power or suspended power, because now we've not been told that he has been sucked, but he has suspended power, and now they are combing everywhere that he leaves and their probing is associated as well. But he has still not made a statement about the fight against corruption. So what is your take on what is happening in the EFCC and other places, and the stand of the president on the fight against corruption? I'll tell you one, two, three things. Number one is that they are setting fundamentals that should not be individual driven. They should be what you call statute of general application. One of such fundamentals is what you call the fundamental human right of everybody. According to the law, that should be respected. Now you do the crime, you do the time, we all agree, but according to prescribed laid down fundamentals and principles of law of the federal government, what that means is that the police have, whether DSS, whether police, whether whoever EFCC, they have no right to arrest you, except number one, they have done the full investigation to establish that you have committed a crime. And if they have done that full investigation, the law allows you to, or allows them to detain you for as long as maybe 24 hours or in some cases, probably 48 hours, and then charge to court. Maybe that time is for them to now have personal interrogation with you and based on what they have, add to what they have. That's why you may have that extra 24 hours or 48 hours. Thereafter charge you to court and it ends there, they go to defend their evidence in court, and if by the end of the day, the judgements against the person you sent into prison or whatever judgment that is given, but for you to carry somebody and keep, and while you are there, you now start to look for is wrong. That is one of the fundamentals, the fundamental human right of the person. Number two is, like I've said already, processes and procedures. You must follow it to the letter, which is investigate, arrest, prosecute. That is the way it's gotta be. And not that you investigate or no, no, no, you arrest and then somebody comes in there and says, what's going on? They say, oh, God, we arrest this man alone. He said, why is it, he said, it's a big crime. So what is the guy, we are still looking into it. And one week after, one month after, two months after, the person is still in custody because you are extending the investigation to now to search his house and I mean, it's wrong, it's wrong. Now, I am in for, you said something about the president not saying something about fighting corruption. For a man who has been, who had this rope around his neck about corruption, right? Now, I don't care about somebody's past. You're here, you're here, you're a president, you're a president. The question Nigerians want to know is, are you willing to take on that sector and deal with them? Or are you willing to just leave that sector behind and do other things? Let us know where you stand, so that we know what you expect. Okay, well, there is this story as well that is on point. Let's just take it quickly before we go to other newspapers. 2000 vacancies open for APC faithfuls and Tino Booth allies. So as people are waiting at the sidelines, 153 agencies, Parastatals, others are waiting, board members, appointments, and another rider is don't sacrifice competence for political patronage, OPS tells president. So right now Nigerians already know, and that is the worrisome thing for me, that all these jobs that are available, board membership and all that, are for APC faithful alone and Tino Booth allies. What do you feel about that? You are planning to be a governor and let's take your own experience or your own dream for this kind of things. If you were to dissolve all the boards, who will constitute the new boards? There are two things. The very first thing is that you must know that there's a difference between party and state. It's very important, that's number one. There's a difference between party and state. For instance, there are three offices on information that I would like to bring out. Number one is the publicity secretary of the party, national public secretary of the party. Number two is the spokesperson of Mr. President. Number three is the minister of information, those three offices. One speaks for the party, one speaks for the president, one speaks for the nation. But what you realize that a lot of times the minister of information becomes a spokesperson for the president or for the party is wrong, shouldn't be so. Now, the second thing is that, which is clarity of offices, the second thing is that you have, what I'm trying to look for the simplest way to put it, you have, politics is a game of interest. And those that win must be given the latitude to several, you know, that they are victory. By implication, if you devote 50% or 60% to your party, you must give a minimum of 20%, if not 30% to inclusivity. What that means is that within APC, I will tell you for free, there are competent people to man any of the principal offices or the parasitize or generally the MDAs. There are competent people within APC to manage these processes. So if you want to say, I don't care about inclusivity, there are enough competent people in your party. But when you now go to your party, I have no problem with, but you leave party and go for patronage, then you are going against the spirit of the concern to which you swore to uphold, because the concern makes it clear that the best fitted for the office should be elected. That is why you as a president, they got the whole of Nigeria to vote for different people and whoever is like the most preferred by the people that should be the case would be the president. So we are looking for the best fitted for the office. I want to zero into one of the parasitize, which is Niger Delta Development Commission. If you look at that commission, which I have been very closely associated with for a very long time, appointments have been the bane of that commission, notwithstanding the very important role it has to play. It has always been to reward people, reward the leader, bring us a name. This is your person. So the person feels a responsibility to his leader that appointed him. So everything that is done has to be within that click of impressing his person. But if you brought a body like maybe BWC or just let them profile your members, your party members and bring Mr. President the best fit five of them or three of them so that Mr. President chooses any of them, the person comes in knowing that he was chosen on the basis of his competence, capacity, and he holds his allegiance to the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to deliver mandate. Now the ascending key parameters like that, that if you just subject it to best fit it, then we'll be able to make progress. But if he comes and does the usual on taking care of the boys, then sad. Okay, well, there are a lot of papers we may not cover all of them. Let's go to Guardian. And almost every paper has the story about the 114% pay rise for public officers and they say in the Guardian that it complicates the minimum wage negotiation. But that's not what we're talking about right now. I'm just looking at a very small headline there below. Nigeria needs state police to tackle insecurity since ex-agric minister. That is our way. And that's what he said, what do you say? I agree completely. And you see, I once went to the World Bank with Madam Okonjoy Wehala to talk about housing. And during that process, they said, you know what? For you to change the land use act is going to be almost an impossibility. It was at the World Bank that they said, why don't we walk around it? You understand me? Because housing has been my forte, you know? And I like that expression, why don't we walk around it? Now, state police will be the ultimate thing, I believe in it. And even go down to the local government and abroad, even universities or certain institutions have their own police, so to speak. So that the national police has a kind of a superintendency over the lower arms and then it just allows people to work with what they can relate to at their levels. Because when I wanted to be governor, which I'm still on, mine was that every village head will be given the status of a sheriff. Because every village head knows every family. Every family, they know everybody. So I hold it responsible. So you're not just a village head, you're like the sheriff, which is my chief security officer. I furnish that office with certain capacities to operate that so that every crime is local, like they say every politic is local, every crime is local. And when you're able to put the responsibility on the people on ground, then they will have to behave because no village head wants to be removed. And he will come to you and say, my guy, you better leave my place or you may not have any problem with you. You better leave or change, you know? And when you do that and every community is sane, it means the state will become sane. That's just what it means. So what am I saying? If we can't have state police, the current IG has said that he's going to work on community policing, okay? So for now, until we get to the state police, let us be able to give the current IG all the acting IG. Well, we can just say IG because he's going to be confirmed. I know that for a fact, you know? Let's give him all that he needs to be able to start to activate that community policing, which will either be so effective that we don't need state police again, or it will be a foundation on which state police will rest. Is there really a much difference between community policing and state police? Let's just have that difference now, spelled out. Yes, yes, yes. I'll tell you, I'll tell you. The control of state police is as local as can be. But the control of community policing is hierarchy. It's on the hierarchy, you know? I wanted to use the hierarchy call, you know, something like that, okay? So, and there's also the command and control mentality, you know, of police. Where a repulse to be, to repulse to see, or it goes up like that. And, you know, when you have a decision taking capacity at a lower level, it makes the decision taking time to be shorter. So, there's a much difference because the concept of the police and the hierarchy is going to be retained. You can't take that out. There are certain things they will not be able to do. But when you know that certain decisions can be taken at a lower level, which is where the, you know, the head of the state police is within the state. It doesn't go up to the region or to the national. So, there's a much difference on being able to act fast, to be able to do the budgeting, being able to do the supervisory roles. It unless they decentralize the police mentality, which is going to be difficult, it will be different from state police and the control. And then the government does not want to fund as it were. What is, they believe is not their responsibility. As of today, the police is being largely funded by the government. But even with that, they have reservations that, like, why am I putting in so much money when these guys don't report to me? But when in Akwaibon, for instance, I know that the police is under my superintendency and my control, I can afford to hit them I can afford to give them salaries that make sense. I can afford to incentivize them. But you can also afford to use them for your selfish gains. Yeah, that's where, let me say this, I've always asked, now the judiciary is decentralized. If they can use the judiciary, then they can as well use the police. But if the judiciary is working as well, as it is today, the police can always work. And you can't say because of one or two people that don't make sense, you want to throw away the baby with the bath water. It can't be a man that makes sense. Okay, we also have that story on Business Day about the salary increase for public servants. But they put it differently. Politicians' habits unchanged as Nigerians bear reform pain. So we're still watching and politicians are waxing stronger and happier while people are suffering. But we're not going to take that because it's the same thing. Let me put this thing very straight. President Tinnubu, I beg you, I take God beg you, throw out that thing, reverse it, and beg you on behalf of Nigerian masses. All right, let me take this. You haven't commented on it since we started talking about it, student loans, plans, student loan plans, sparks controversy in universities. Asu, Konoa, parents take different stance about that. I'd like to pick your mind what you think about these student loans of a thing. Thank you. It was actually... Yeah, it was divided over. It was one of the things that I proposed to do as a governor because I am a beneficiary of government support through Bursary. I was an indigent student and nothing helped me. But is it the same thing? Because Bursary, scholarship, and student loan. At the come, at the come, at the come. I'm talking of whether loan or Bursary is a support system for the indigent. That's the foundation. Number two, we have a wrong mentality. Where anything from government is largest. Talk about anchor borers program. Talk about trading money. Talk about any of these things. You throw money at people. People think that it is just theirs to take and leave. So if you are coming to give a loan, you will end up seizing the certificates of Nigerians except you have laid a foundation for this money. Number one, have you been able to talk to the people, reorientate them to know that a loan means is money that comes with preconditions on repayment? What are those preconditions? I had two governors, Governor Atah and one of that governor will not call his name. Where I became the first president got a shelter facility for any state government. Governor Atah was asking me, how do we repay? What are the terms and conditions? The other governor was telling me, bring the money, bring the money. At the end of the day, I told Governor Atah, because Governor Atah sent me to the other governor. I told him, I'm not gonna go because this guy is just asking me, bring the money, bring the money. While you're asking me, how do we repay? What am I trying to say? Number one is that, are you giving a grant? A grant is given from a loan. If it is a loan, have you laid the foundation for it not to become free money? Number three, can you do it incrementally? Can you look at those areas like ICT that can generate money while you are still in school? Or are you looking at entrepreneurship where you can generate money while you are still in school? Or are you looking at some of these courses that these people will have to come out and look for work to do and there's no work to do. How will they repay the money? And finally, at the end of the day, what sort of template have you put in place to understand who benefits it? Have you looked at the strategic educational plan of the country to make sure that you give the loan to those areas that are needed critically for now? Or is it going to be butter and bread? And how do we ensure that there's transparency and accountability? These are all the questions and they are the foundations that should have been laid before you announce there's a loan coming and raise the hopes of the people and everybody thinks they can benefit. And when you now come to see that people cannot benefit, there's what you call failed expectation and those failed expectations, if they are not well, can snowball it to something that you didn't expect. It's because you didn't do your right. So many pronouncements by the president. So many bills signed into law. Somebody said that Mr. President has really kicked the ball rolling and I was wondering whether it is rolling onto offside or corner kick or a throw in or whatever it is, but it better be rolling towards the goal post. So that we can score a goal, not an own goal now. Well, but this is how we can, how much we can take from off the press this morning. It's always a pleasure having you, Mr. Architect, architect Ezekiel Nyaituk. Very important. Fixing is the matter. Yes, architect Ezekiel Nyaituk. Thank you so much for having, for being a part of our show. Yeah, so we were talking with architect Ezekiel Nyaituk on the off the press, which is a segment where we look at the newspapers. We'll just take a short break now. When we return, we'll be talking about the Naira, is it falling or rising? Are we into doom or we are expecting El Dorado in the economic or financial sector? Stay with us.