 Hi everyone, wherever and whenever you are joining us from welcome to another fireside chat I am here with Moudita who is the senior director of product at PayPal Moudita. Thank you so much for joining us today Thank you so much. Ellen great to be here So we were chatting a little bit backstage and I think we're gonna have a really amazing chat We've got so much to talk about already. You're all very unlucky that you missed the backstage checks. It was fascinating But let's get started with learning a bit more about your personal story Can you tell us how you got to where you are today and how you got started in tech? Absolutely, yes, so it's been a little bit of a windy journey for me. I was one of those you know, I guess people who didn't really know what I wanted to do when I Grew up and was excited about all things tech I started my journey as a developer and realized that I wasn't a very very good developer But loved all aspects of creating and developing, you know a problem out. I Subsequently became a management consultant after doing a stint in development and working with some really brilliant engineers And enjoyed that quite a bit back when I started my management consulting career There used to be this concept of implementing large Enterprise-level software and that was the first For a I would say into product management where you really learn how to gather requirements Understand and listen to your customer Do a lot of deep thinking and writing and developing that type of good behavior and then working with a cross-functional team With your clients as well as yourself in order to implement a product So that was where I started understanding that I enjoy the aspect of Deep solutioning understanding a problem in depth talking to people Working with different minds to come towards a solution together But also realized that my heart was aching for some fulfilling meaningful work Not like my consulting practice work wasn't meaningful But I really love the idea of the private sector and the public sector joining hands and building solutions That could really scale so I know one of the things that Deeply sort of thrilled me is hey you take a problem, but if you're able to implement it at scale The the opportunity to service many people is is really exciting and really fulfilling And I think the public sector gives you that aspect and the and the fuel that private sector innovation provides can be just a phenomenal Sort of experience. I had a great opportunity to then work with the The County of Los Angeles worked in the DC area quite a bit as well worked in Fresno County worked in Honolulu, Hawaii So I was very blessed and traveling to different parts of the country and really servicing our government sector quite a bit But then took a break because I needed more time to think about what life would be next Went back to school for my grad school education and actually got trained as an epidemiologist and Biostatistician and in public policy. So very different from what the work I actually do so it could be I guess the biggest learning is you can find many ways into product is what what I think I'm getting at and then ultimately You know did a lot of work as a program manager for the Gates Foundation Also worked at the World Bank projects for the World Bank projects quite a bit and really understood the importance of financial Technologies and how they can empower people on at the grassroots level and PayPal really sits In the in the middle of this problem and trying to solve this problem, but there are many other You know excellent companies and thought leaders thinking about the same kind of problem as well. So That's how I found my road through many types of trainings Into the product role and enjoyed greatly because I'm able to take a little bit from all of those experiences and Now work towards building a product that can be scalable can be something that is delightful something that really makes an impact impact on the lives of people and That's how my product journey has been That's such a varied background I mean, I've heard a lot of things in people's backgrounds when they come to product Like as you say all winding parts eventually leads product somehow, but I've not heard epidemiology. That's a new one for us Definitely such a unique experience So now that you're a senior director of product It's it's always difficult to sort of describe yourself as your job title in products because you know They mean different things across different companies even within the same company to direct the product can be doing very different things What does your kind of day-to-day or week-to-week look like at that level? It's a good question. Actually, I would say that one thing that we learned during our Consulting days, I think that Way of thinking about product potentially still holds true and I'll share that and let's see the audience resonates with us So we think about a problem space in three ways one is people one is process one is tech And that's an oversimplification obviously of the problem But as a director or even as a product manager, I would say you're always trying to move these three lovers when you're working You're thinking about the people that you work with whether they are your team or extended team You're thinking about the processes to unblock them and to simplify Execution of product building the product and bringing it to market and then the third piece is obviously innovative technological solutions, I think the rigor and the discipline the focus behaviors are things that we need to champion in order to make a product and a lot of my time is spent really thinking about how do I introduce, you know good behaviors in our team and really Celebrate the excellent success that naturally comes when you hire brilliant minds and just unlock their potential so my job as a number one thing that I do is to really Step out of the way and not not get in the way of my team and really accelerate them And then also as I am getting out of the way Understanding from them through a continuous communication Where are the friction points that they see in their own day-to-day execution? so a lot of time is really spent on the people management aspects of my job and And really nourishing and taking care of the of my team and then our extended team But by default and then of course figuring out the processes We need to put in place in order to make sure product delivery is Well-oiled machine and there's always an opportunity to do better and better and better And especially when you work for companies that are a little bit more mature or have done things a certain way How do you then challenge the staff's quo without fracturing the system and still accelerating the team? So I think about that a lot I think a lot of my time goes in strategic planning strategic initiatives to obviously, you know bring the business along and Really then making sure that we are aligned to the strategic priorities and not doing work That doesn't make sense for the overall growth of the of the team or the company and then obviously Measuring our growth and our contribution to business is the third angle that I think about and work on constantly So a little bit nebulous happy to go deeper into any of these Areas if you'd like mm-hmm and as a obviously at PayPal you're you're in the FinTech industry Are there any kind of unique challenges to being in the FinTech industry that you might not see in other spaces? Absolutely, I think you are You are in a in a very unique position as PayPal or we are in a very unique position I should say as PayPal because you know people trust you with their financial Well-being in many ways so regulation You know adhering to sort of the compliance framework is the number one You know commitment obviously to business and then just taking care of of your customers whether they're merchants or they're Consumers and PayPal is very blessed in that we have a multiple-sided network. So on one side we have a merchants over 300 million we have consumers on the other hand who Log into PayPal to transact and then of course the third area that I'm extremely passionate about And my come at my team leads is the developer segment Essentially, how do you take developers who use the API as an SDKs that PayPal bills and Really sort of puts together payment solutions Beyond payment solutions even for our merchants to go ahead and accelerate sort of you know The online presence or their e-commerce offerings So I think of it as a three-sided network for us that we are constantly responsible for But it is rooted in the idea that Financial empowerment is extremely important for folks Regardless of their strata or socioeconomic Condition but especially for the vulnerable populations and doing right by then is something that is a huge Mission for PayPal and often we talk about democratizing financial services So always thinking about how do we reduce the friction for people who are consuming these services and how we can do better as a Company each day in order to service our base essentially Yeah, I can I can just hear the passion in your voice as you're talking about it It's obvious this is something like it's a problem that you're obviously very obsessed with which is obviously a great thing for product people So we I mean this is something we touched on before we went live about being a woman in tech a woman in product And I'd like to ask you a bit about being a woman in FinTech because the this might be completely wrong But the outside of perspective of FinTech is that it can be a little bit of a boys club Is that a giant misconception or is there like a nugget of truth in that that you've had to kind of maneuver? I here's how I'll say it. I will keep all you know Company brands aside and just look at the problem in itself and its entirety Just Silicon Valley or just the tech space in general Has to obviously do better when it when it comes to being more inclusive and a place that is more inviting for women in general or any Underrepresented underrepresented Rupen in particular and they're various Various ways of looking at that problem It starts honestly very early in the way our education system is set up right and the incentives we put in place There are trends that we are seeing obviously changing if you look at the number of women Graduating from colleges with advanced degrees, etc. It's it's rising quite a bit and that's like you know very very Interesting and exciting for me as a person in tech and the second thing is you know, I will be honest women need men as allies in this conversation and Any time that allies ship breaks then we are almost working against each other rather than towards a common goal Which is that everybody deserves to have a great working environment where they feel Respected they feel like they have a seat at the table They have a voice in the system and can really truly bring about change So the way I see that it is certainly not a gender You know Friction issue. It's just how do we build those allies ship models and bring each other along? What my team does in particular and strategies that have worked well is Really be mindful about inclusion and diversity from the get-go Anytime we make a hire into the team We have an opportunity to put the best foot forward as being an inviting workplace as a place where both women and men have a seat at the table But we are specifically talking to women about things that they need so oftentimes I'll just give an example Women with young children may not be at the liberty to travel as much for work We're in a different COVID space, but imagine a world where travel comes back Let's say or business travel comes back. We have to be mindful of that, right? And can we put Policies in place where young fathers and mothers potentially don't have to travel and can you call that out in your job description to make it a Little bit more inviting for women The other thing we did for example at within my team is really look for gendered words in our job description So for example women don't often respond well to job descriptions that say hey, you got to be a go-getter You got to be like, you know a complete shapeshifter. You should be able to transform the company That's too much to take on for any human being by the way It's just bizarre that we should even put those types of aggressive requirements in a job description The way we we we perform well in our jobs is if we're collaborative if we communicate well If we're able to bring each other along and those are words that resonate with men They resonate with women as well. And so how do we? neutralize some of that gendered Entry even with just a job description and then of course setting up hiring panels that are diverse not just Men but women people from different types of backgrounds, etc So there's careful thought that goes into hiring within my team itself And then just of course oftentimes making sure that when we're hiring women They see women leaders and are able to see that, you know, we're putting money where the mouth is money where the mouth You know how that's saying those Making sure that you know, we are being authentic in the way we're showing up and and and I'm very fortunate very fortunate here at PayPal and many other companies that I've worked for where these conversations are not frowned upon These are conversations that people embrace oftentimes You know, we can lead with examples of good behavior and make that a structural change within the team So that it's not Something that you have to talk about like inclusion is in hiring is not something I have to talk about because that's how Structured the hiring process and it's just a process we follow So that's what I've learned and then of course many other aspects of being a woman in tech and fintech You know the spaces for women to own and to lead and I'm excited about what the future of prospect brings us I'll tell you there are a couple of companies that I'm extremely excited about in the fintech space And I'll just name one and I am not an investor in this company I have no like personal interest, but it's just the way this company showed up was quite exciting Ella best is an interesting company I think that is women owned and thinks about the way women invest and speaks to women There is an immense opportunity also in the market just generally if we're going to be serious about bringing women along Is to invest in products and ideas that make sense for women and I would say Keep Ella best on one side keep Robin Hood on one side And it's interesting to just see how they both show up and I think it is a fantastic space for everybody to win But maybe how you shape your messaging and product for the audience You know leaders have to think about and it all depends on the leader on the seat at that point Absolutely, so I'm dying to dig more into both women in the industry and the fintech industry So you mentioned about the democratization of financial services How do you see that sort of developing maybe over the next maybe that's three four or five years? Because obviously I think I think finance is becoming more and more of a hot topic in the public space Before money was just a thing like you have your credit card or your debit card Or you have like your wallet and that was pretty much all we really thought about but now like Investments getting the spotlight crypto currencies getting the spotlight NFTs, which I still struggle to understand It's all sort of going on at the moment, and it's a really hot topic So as a professional in the space I would love to ask you what you think will see from the fintech industry in the next like five years in terms of democratizing these services I'll take a slightly different stab and maybe More nuanced response to this than probably you hear from a lot of the product folks in fintech See my career in fintech started with my work at at UCSF at at the Gates Foundation at the With the World Bank initiative so my perspective on fintech is very different from what the One percenters of the five percenters of the world things and that is also important But the real financial empowerment or the fintech technology needs to Really reach at the bottom of the pyramid and this is like a poor way of describing it But the pyramid let's say it is like like that if I can make my Hand work. We are kind of solving for this top portion of the world, right? But the problem and inclusion for fin Financial services needs to happen at the bottom of the pyramid to really transform and accelerate the innovation Crypto has huge like sort of potential for sure so does These non-traditional ways of financing so I'm very excited about some of the work that Non-traditional banking ideas are bringing into into sort of the into this into the space Imagine a world where you needed to have collateral. You needed to have a good credit score You needed to have your parents who could vouch for you For your credit, etc. Majority of the world may not work like that, you know people May not have a perfect credit Score or a mechanism even to get into the credit market So what are the alternative systems that we can build in order to enable these people, right? By now pay leaders a classic example of how we shifted already in the market that you don't need a huge Let's say credit worthiness in order to buy something that could be an aspirational buy for you You can split it up in multiple sort of payments, etc. So the innovation is happening already even without us sort of Trying sometimes I think COVID did a lot of that But I really do envision and hope for a world as you asked Alan Is where we can solve for that bottom of the pyramid customer if a woman in India is able to and that's something I'm personally passionate about is able to go in Use a savings product and build for the future of her daughter for her education for her wedding for her health care That's a win and that's the end game honestly I don't think we'll be able to get there in five years It may not happen in my lifetime But that's where the ball needs to be or the eye needs to be But then definitely all the trends that I'm seeing are very very exciting crypto Especially as you said NFTs. Yeah, I'm interested to see how that that that's going to show up I think we're a little bit old school sometimes or I'm like, oh, how does this apply in or for scale but ultimately If the core financial services cannot operate for people who need it most then we keep solving for that top 5% And that's exciting, but there is a bigger opportunity out there for sure Absolutely, and I think it really speaks to the need for diversity Across the tech industry, but also in fintech that you have people who can maybe more closely empathize With the people at like the bottom of the pyramid People from like the the countries where that type of customers more common So yeah, it's just a big like big white flag wave for diversity in the industry there So I see we have some audience comments coming in lots of people very excited about getting into the fintech industry or Transitioning to a product right within the fintech industry Do you have any like little nuggets of advice or wisdom for people who maybe they already work in products? But not in fintech and they're looking to transition or people that are coming to this straight out of college and thinking yet FinTech is where it's at Yeah, I'm so delighted that fintech is suddenly You know garnering garnering a lot of interest and a whole universe of willing willing it Kind of stays like that for a long long time to resolve all of world's financial problems I would say that if you are of a curious mind, you are excited about how finance generally works and you are not Offended by the idea of you know a democratization of money. This is your space You should be excited about all the tech improvements and acceleration. That's happening here COVID again, I'll say it was a huge accelerator for the e-commerce space anyways and payments powers obviously a lot of the e-commerce Technologies as well. I would say that You know if you're interested in fintech apply like apply because fintech as far as the core Payments pieces are concerned. It is a massive space and if you can touch components of it Even I like now having worked in this space for quite some time I still feel like I'm just scratching the surface because the technology is just so deep and so white that I think it'll take Lifetime just to really truly understand all aspects of it, but I think you know Understanding how the whole credit processing works how the debit processing works Understanding how money movement works, etc. And this is like publicly available information that we can just go ahead and digest I think visa puts out great learning materials PayPal puts out great learning materials. I think a lot of the new sort of fintech players put out like amazing just Free knowledge out there that I think we should just be eating up and reading on a regular basis But then honestly just jump in there is no magic formula to this make your way into the industry I know that a lot of hiring is happening in this area. It's a great time to actually join as well Luckily, like the job market is is is good for the techies at the moment or product folks at the moment And I would say that It's not just product Even if you can touch the program aspects if even if you can touch the analytics aspects of this work It is actually great learning and sets you up for success As far as honestly the the qualifications you need as long as you have basic understanding about Finances in general as long as you're curious about customer problems as long as you understand that Solving for friction is the biggest value add here I think you are you're gunning for the right kind of role in in fintech You're almost making me want to transition into fintech now that was so convincing I hope my manager's listening So we've covered some really important topics here we talked about some really important stuff So let's we've got another five minutes. Let's maybe transition into some more light-hearted things If you could go back in time and give yourself any piece of advice to the younger version of you For your career, what would that piece of advice be? I? Feel like I shouldn't give any advice because I'm learning so much myself I think there's this is an advice for myself that I have been using on a daily basis I Think just compassion for yourself, and I am You know there is a spiritual angle to this as well And I'm reading the questions that are coming in from the audience as well things are changing so fast So fast in the in the whole digitization of the economy that is taking place right now is that? We literally have to hang on and just write this right. It's a fantastic time to be in actually There is the fear of missing out of course But that's where compassion for self comes in You know I remember back in the day when I was working at ebay The ceo had said that you're always training for the marathon. You are not Training for the sprint of course. It's great to sprint Take a breather recharge and come back, but you're training for the marathon And I think if we take time as a more Longer term flow then it's easier to deal with personal failures or personal You know times where I feel like oh my goodness I don't think I'll be able to survive this like shocker into into into my life but I think having compassion for that is key and then just Writing down your achievements on a yearly basis. This is something that I worked with the chief architect at ebay When reporting into him. He said a great practice. He did is at the end of every year He pulled up linkedin and wrote down all the great things that he had done and It's fascinating because you're writing a little bit of your history And and proudly showing it to the world But it's such a great way to just look back how far along you came and it's almost a deliberate exercise Otherwise, we're just Running in this hamster wheel without realizing that you know, we're making a contribution to our own learning We are sort of making a contribution to the tech space And documenting that is is sort of the great way I love the analogy of the marathon because sometimes it can feel like a sprint and a relay race at the same time So yeah picturing it as a marathon. That's super valuable And now as a as a leader, of course The more I mean, I know we hate the word authority in products But the more authority that you gain as you advance in your career The more things you're able to delegate and get off of your plate and onto other people's so you can focus on the bigger picture But is there anything that you kind of like to keep for yourself just because you enjoy it? Yeah, I before I became a people manager I also spend number of years just doing individual contributor or IC work as as it's called in the industry a lot of times And I love doing the deeper writing the structured thinking I liked I used to have my own blog as at some point as well and now that you're calling me You're kind of putting limelight on this. I'm a little bit embarrassed. I haven't kept up with that. So I need to So I think deep thinking and writing is something that I truly enjoy and contributing to Sort of the strategy pieces is something I enjoy greatly. It's nourishing for my soul and then Some things that I have sort of put in practice and feel very proud of is the hiring framework and the hiring practices That I've built for my team and I cling on to those things like a little spider who just can't give up on their spider web And I'm so glad that I'm still involved in some of those things even though I don't need to be but Truly enjoy sort of the strategic writing thinking as well as the hiring pieces of my job and won't give it up Just keep spider clinging on to it like no one's like well pry from your cold dead hands All right Pretty well. Um, Moody this has been an absolute joy. Um, please come back for another fireside chat as soon as possible I can just tell that we've got loads more to talk about. Um, and yeah, thank you so much for generously donating your time I hope the audience enjoyed that as much as I did What fun. Thank you so much for your time and the questions were excellent and hope to come back soon Okay, that's it for today's fireside chat. Unfortunately, uh, but don't worry You know that we always come back with another one. So we'll see you in the next fireside chat. Bye Bye