 So The difference isn't people make the difference, right? That's what it's about. Yeah Okay, so yeah, you should know what you're talking about, right? Okay. Yeah, I do Okay, listen That title your people make the difference It's for me for two reasons, right? It's about people themselves. This is where the success factor is but it's also about the right people and that's what I want to start today because You know Being In agile for so long. I do like the last I say almost 10 years just exclusively Transformation work and I'm always surprised by the by the fact that people will say, you know We do we do the it first and then we do the business and I thought what the fuck? You know, we do agile transformations for the business So how in the world can you can you leave the business out? So this is where I want to start with you because I Mean if you look at this, why do we do agile? Who this is not an exam, right? Try to get the interaction going. Why do we do agile more fun? Not exactly what we had in mind when we wrote the manifesto, but you know, okay Sorry more speed Yeah, can I can I use two words? Agile is about one thing and that both by the way the same avoiding delay period Nothing else. Why? time to market faster, but how come right in terms of in terms if you look at it in What what delay is all about? This is not my hair, right? I Mean if you if you look at at notice this old school And I make this wrong and so many people say oh, this is old school This is how it works in so many companies companies every single day, right the waterfall. Here we go And what happens in the waterfall predominantly is that what we do is we have you know Analysis and I don't know design and technical and development and test whatever but what we do is, you know Here we make documents and the documents over make another document hand it over make another document and it This is how I worked right and What happens in here is a couple of things are seriously going wrong just if you look at this picture and the first one that goes wrong Here is your hand over information. What happens if we hand over information? What happens? Sorry? Thank you very much. Exactly. What do we know about interpretations? They're wrong Right, I mean with the words that I use I mean something and you make your own interpretations Everybody and you can be close, but they're never exactly what I mean, right? This is not a problem, but it's the same thing if I send you a document I mean who has read the book Lord of the Rings When you saw the movie did the characters like look like what was in your imagination? Everybody has his own You know imagine right. This is how it works So if I send you a document with a functional design We screw up because everybody has his own interpretations, right? And then you get then you get the thing that this process is becoming a process that builds Misunderstandings Well, it goes like this right you're the client you talk to me I make a document give the document to you you make another document out of it You give a document to him you make another document out of it and I make interpretations of your words I make a document you make interpretations of my document you make interpretations of her document so we stack Misunderstandings of each other Then we go back to the business we deliver and he will say but that's not what I said That's not what I asked for that's not what I need Right, so we have to rework So we have a delay Right simple simple so misunderstandings is one the second one if you look at this process I talked to him make a document and It looks as if I have my hair is this long, right? I Sent a document to you, but you're busy Right, you know it's busy So after two days you have time to read my mail takes two days to go completely through the document Then you put on MS Word, you know that you can put the notes in there, right? So you put the notes in so you have your I have my interpretations interpretations Then you put your notes in you send it back, but I'm busy takes two days three days Maybe the point is by the time that we are getting a little bit aligned we one week down the line If we sit together at the table with the client it takes an hour So it's extremely inefficient. So the point is We have a delay Right, and the next one is if you know this one here testing at the end and And if you talk about paradigm shifts people think the testing is the only thing you can do at the end Which is not true, right? But this is what it is. So and then we have because it's not only the interpretations Then we have the assumptions and we have the magical estimations You know what estimations do? They keep your hostage because You know how clients are right? It's always the same. Give me a house. Can you make me a house? Yes, I can How much would it cost? I don't know. Yeah, but how much was it? Yeah, but I don't know I need to ask you what kind of family do you have and you want to pull you want a garage to garage Maybe two bathrooms. How much does it cost and then okay? I think it will be half million euros and then bum hostage and if I say, okay, and I deliver on January 1 Whoops, I'm done and I don't know I am here, right? So what happens most of the time? Estimations are wrong. They are too small. We need more time So it's all a little bit more time a little bit more time Then he has some new ideas so he brings in some changes some more time some more time So by the time that we are getting to the test We're running out of time and I've been in situations where Q a manager said to me, you know what Q a means You know what assurance mean Q Q a assurance. I guarantee it means right and what happens is that Q a manager said to me Oh, Arie, you know how it is. There was so much pressure from the business. We went live without testing and This is a quote. This is not a joke All right, so what happens is you have a lot of bucks Whatever it is if you're writing a book, it will be spell errors. It's the marketing campaign. You have the wrong mailing list It's all and if you make software, it's the wrong code, right? So it's if you look at the problems that we stack on each other delay Delay and delay right. This is where we are. That's what we do and Then we have a situation where we have very often in the agile world What we do is then we have the business here and we have the developers here. Who is a product owner here? Okay, are you here? In between the be yeah My god, I don't want to be in your position Because this is what happens, you know the business talk to you You talk to the developers and then the developers talk back This is one two three four interpretations assumptions and estimates It doesn't work. What you need to do is you need to do this That's agile working Everybody together at the table and who is everybody stakeholders. What's a stakeholder? Everyone who can put the team on hold by rejecting the work So if it's somebody has the authority to not accept That's the one you want to take and if you go back to this model here Going back to this model here I just made a very simple model But I most of my project that I did when I did I did the first 15 years of the 25 years commercial agile projects And then it's of course so we have here we have accept so the client is accepting a Functional design that the client doesn't understand at all, right? But he said yes or no and then we go down the line and here we have then you think you're done And then we have the legal department say hey before you go live We need to see and we need to approve and then you okay Okay, now we have the legal department, right and then someone says hey I'm from the marketing department and There's an app in your solution And I want to check if you use the right colors and the right funds and the right and I have to approve before You go live and you think them Back to square one. I have a delay, right? So you need to find a way Instead of doing this, you know where you have the the timeline Like this what you do is you you turn it 90 degrees Timeline is here and then you have all stakeholders on a very regular basis sitting together And now coming back to people make the difference Right if you if you have that kind of situation What is the one thing that is making the success to make or break in this kind of working? Agile is an interaction concept. It's about people and This is where agile becomes fragile and that's that's not a joke. It's a nice phrase, but it's true I've been in situations where I was doing a project in this way. So I called those moments here Those sessions those here I Called them the hard beats and The hard beats are about the content of the solution. So if we have the client Explaining something want to change something then I have the legal and the marketing department and the developers and a corporate architects I have them there because tell us what you need tell us the change and he can see He can say what he needs business-wise and the rest can check. Okay, does it match if the developers make something, right? Then people can you can check from the legal perspective Automatically generated memos from a governmental organization before you send them out Totally legally checked before you can send them out if you don't have to check any approval. You cannot go live those kind of things right so that means that you have Sometimes sessions with 1520 people They're not long half an hour 45 minutes But it's this this is the one and only session that is about the value delivery The rest is about the progress You know do I deliver my daily and my red thrower and salt the progress But that heartbeat is the essential moment and if I do just a refinement at the beginning of my sprint And then a delivery at the end of my sprint. What do people do if they if they see something for the very first time? What do people say no Because if you see something for the very first time You have always something to add and of course there is this you know little twist in Interpretations so you need to be prepared so in I do these kind of sessions every two three days But that means that the collaboration between people is extremely important and also means that in the past it would be like this, right? I am a supplier. You're a client and I work for you and then you are from the legal department or you're from the Corporate architecture and you test and check if I did my work good now We are together and we have a shared responsibility in delivering the value and That's a totally different approach also in in in terms of collaboration and I think Too often people forget about it People maybe don't even know so what we have is that instead of being agile We are doing things that are in agile books and we expect that the benefits Just happen and that's not true And this way of working and empowering people is so different from what a lot of organizations are But you know what managers do is managers don't like to give this up and maybe not even consciously But this is the comfort zone. This is what they work for right So where you say okay I'm going to involve a lot of different people and I have to make them communicate because in my opinion agile is just an interaction concept That's what it is Right and then we have you have this yo with a and doing agile is done in my opinion very simple It's you know retros hard beats demos Dailies right that's that but below it The paradigms are so different and one of the paradigms is you know, you have your teams here, right? Doing agile work and in the organization. We have silos And an agile is is not a trick from an IT department. It's a corporate capability to respond to change You do it all together So if you and if you go, you know, you go to work you're going to work cross silo together to good No, we just showed up the legal department and the marketing department and you're from the business line What whatever the business line is I do development, right? And then you get you get this kind of teams But hold on a second right here We have someone who is responsible for this silo and Then we have so you can see that If you go into really agile working really agile working we were in the taxi yesterday talking about you know leadership and leadership is not just about The word servant leadership right of course it's important But you know what's very important as a as a servant leader you work agile yourself as well And that you empower your people in there because that's what self-organizing means And then you can see that the the twist in here is that you really need people who can do this People in the team because responsibility is something that you give It was something that people need to take and not everybody I returned yesterday evening from China Taking responsibility in China is totally different from the Netherlands. I can tell you and It's totally different in Bangkok where I go soon. It's all those Right, so it is a cultural perspective where you're from and it's you know We are all set because we call it culture. I say, you know the whole the most horrible one that I hear all the time is oh, that's a Very good idea, but it doesn't match our culture You know this one or this is a very good idea, but it doesn't work for us And you know what it means because they say our culture. What is culture? What is culture? People and habits people and habits right build on stories and experience and Then people said doesn't it's nothing. I said it's like a bucket Full of people and their habits and that's the good news Because people can change their habits. I cannot change you but you can change yourself So if you don't get an agile transformation done, it's a resistance of people hindering you right so the people make the difference in every step that you take And what I said this morning, right? If you are on the panel on one o'clock technology, of course is is is very important For example in the IT industry if you want to deliver every two weeks and you do software code And you don't have integration deployment and testing automated your screwed. I can tell you it's not going to work You're full of problems, right? So techno but on technology only works if we go again if the mindset is okay So what you do is you do a paradigm shift You know what paradigms do paradigms define reflexes on the stress. This is how it works All right, we're going into a change now. We're going to work agile So you get a two-day training and now you have to work agile. What happens if you do something for the very first time? Yeah scared nervous Can I say that if you do something for the very first time? It's not the most brilliant delivery and This is what managers do, right? So we have we have a team here now and this team is world champion soccer and Next week Monday, we're going to play hockey So you hire a trainer is going to tell him today's how to play hockey and then we expect him to be world champion in hockey But what happens if he starts playing hockey, which is difficult normally doesn't really feed now He has a stick things go wrong And what people will say? Ah, see it doesn't work and They step back into the old routines and that's what the paradigm does So If you want to work agile, I'm how am I in time? Oh three minutes, right? If you want to work agile You do this to avoid delay, right? So you want to be faster than you've ever been before Faster because you deliver the right value very efficient without bucks. That's that's what you want to do, right? To do this you have the agile interaction concept But to do agile means that it has to come from the people and people have to learn and people have to change And that's not the easy part so if you ever go into agile working Yes technology, but people first otherwise you go wrong and if you go into agile working It means that you have to check You have to check who do I need and I think your position as product owners It's not about being in between Because everybody will tell you you did wrong No one said they are I got the wrong stuff and the other said yeah, you told it to me in the wrong way, right? And here you are in the middle No between doors So what you do is instead of being here as a sort of a messenger girl in between two teams Making out of it one team where you have your regular regular hard beats with all the stakeholders in there And that's not easy because the people will say I'm too busy or It's not necessary. Oh, you know what? Send me an email. I'm too busy and exactly people go into the old habits, right? So agile is about accepting that it's a learning process. It's not going to be perfect right away it's about Making an effort to identify who do I need who is a stakeholder here and to make sure that you set up the working agreement before you start doing Because you cannot change the rules of the game after you started right so before you go into your delivery sprints I need to know who are the people here? Would I need I need to make sure that I have them that they are empowered that they're going to be with me in the sessions I need to arrange a lot of stuff and then I can start and then I have to understand that and I have to accept That even even if you go in this way working in the beginning It will be not easy and it will be not always going perfect But it's about if things go wrong It's not about ah, it doesn't work. It's about okay. How can I make it work? All right, that's that's where you need to go And it's about chains and what I just said You cannot change someone else and that's the good news You can't change yourself, but if you do it collectively you get somewhere because ultimately the change is you and nothing else Okay On time 30 seconds left. Thank you very much