 Hello, my name is Rocha Maria Costipsis-Nerdos and I am part of the Independent Theatre Hungary today. I am sitting down with Alex Fifea and David Schwarz. Both who were parts in some capacity of you didn't see anything. So if both of you could first introduce yourselves who you are and your role at, yeah, so just who you are and where you are right now as well, that'd be great. Thank you. Alex. Yeah, my name is Alex Fifea. I'm an actor, a social and political actor here in Romania. I was involved in the production of this, you haven't seen anything, the performance you've just watched. Back in 2015, together with my, with the director David Schwarz and Catalina Rula, the musician. Well, it's kind of, it's been a long time since then. We're now in 2021. And I wish that the realities that were presented in this play were somehow different or things would have gotten better by now. But unfortunately, I think this, the theme of the play, the structure of violence and the violence of the police towards the most unfavorable by society all over the world has gotten not better but worse. Well, back in 2015, I was just starting in this social and political theater thing and because David who practically introduced myself into this world. And now it's like after all these years, I'm still doing the same thing. I'm getting involved in production of social and political plays. I still document. I still involve anything from acting and directing, documenting and producing this place. Yeah, this is on short what I do. I also am the co-partner in the Art Hub Bucharest. That is the platform that we use for our, all of our grants and all of our theater productions. And yeah, I'm a co-manager there. We're also involved with this in more than one European project regarding Roma theater and social and political theater. Yeah, I think I just took the word for granted. Thank you. Thank you for that. Also David to present himself. Yes, David. My name is David Schwarz. I am a theater director, playwright, producer and also theater theoretician based in Bucharest, Romania. I am active in social and political engaged theater for almost 15 years now. And I'm the co-founder of the political theater platform that we have developed in Bucharest since 2013. I am most interested in the relation between theater and politics and how, in which way, if theater can explore, analyze and reflect upon the contradictions of our of our society and the struggles in the contemporary Romanian society. So the performance you haven't seen anything which we have developed together with Alex and with Catalina Rula should be seen in this in this frame of documenting and reflecting upon the struggles of the most vulnerable and social social groups. And I am also I think it's really important this relation between the precarious work, ethnic discrimination, poverty and the violence that the state exercises towards the most, towards some of the most vulnerable workers. Because as you may have understood from the from the performance, Daniel, the hero of the of the story, was actually a precarious worker. He was a parking attendee. He was working in an informal job without any kind of social protection. And also he was a Roma poor, coming from a poor background, a Roma teenager coming from a poor background. And we can see how this intersection of of oppressions and of intersection of vulnerabilities is actually it can in our local context, but I think also in many other countries worldwide can lead not only towards systematic discrimination, but even towards death. And so can each of you describe your role within the play? Were you the director or yeah, so can you speak a bit about that? Okay, I will start. So the first it was Alex proposed me to try to document and try to document the story, the situation of this murder of a Roma park attendee in the police section in the police station in Bucharest. The murder took place in 2014. So after this happened, we decided that we want to do a performance about about this. And we started to document together, not only the context, but also the trial that was taking place during the year 2014. So we went to the court, we took, we witnessed all the development of the trial and the testimonies of the police men and women and the testimonies of other witnesses. And then we also contacted the family and the friends, the acquaintances of Daniel. And so this was a research process which was done together by Alex and myself. And following this process, we started to structure the material and think about the development of the script. And this we have done together, but Alex has written most of it. So Alex worked as an author and I worked, if you want, as a dramaturg in the Germans and in the German understanding, meaning of the word, editing the text, giving suggestions and supporting the development of the text. And then based on the script, we rehearsed and developed the performance in which Alex has the leading part and I did the directing part. Thank you. Alex, did you want to add anything to that? You unmute, Alex. Actors and the technology don't go along very well. It was like David said, of course it was the documenting part that was the most impacting one for me because it was maybe the second time when I did this also before, one year before we were doing this, you were born in the right place, another play which David directed. And that was about migrants that live in Romania. And it was the second time for me and the most direct jump, so to say, in this documenting process for writing the place. And it was this and it was David's directing and that's why I first went to him to ask for directions because David is a very good director. And then it was the personal part that I kind of introduced in the play, this whole part in the beginning where I present myself very, how to say it, it involves me in a very personal level as an actor and also as a half Roma actor because I am of mixed ethnicity and this was my personal, if I can say so, attribute to dedicated to the life of this young man that got to be killed in such dramatic circumstances and very uncertain circumstances. And what we must say, I think one more thing would be the involvement of the carousel which is an association that helps the vulnerable where they most need it, that is in the streets and there is Maria Nursan, the head of carousel who personally got involved. And he acted as, so to say, a facilitator which made real people in the streets that we interviewed to trust us, to trust us with their stories and with their side of the story and the family also because Marianne in carousel works with them from like 20 years, 30 years before. And so it helped us a lot to really talk and get to be on the same level with the real people in the streets. And that's really powerful and quite beautiful as well. And were they able to see the finished or the final product and sharing of it, yes? Yeah, we included in the first representations of the play, we have included within the small budget that we have, it was a joke of a budget, but it was back in those days, it was what we needed, what we strictly needed in terms of production and of paying ourselves for the period that we worked. So that's what I wanted to add, the importance and the first thing was that we had an open air representation of the play which involved a lot of people, a lot of police cars attending the show like from the corner of the street. And a lot of these people got to see, it was about their friend, the person they already knew for years in their community. And it was very, very, how to say powerful and the relationship with the public has been maybe one of the most intense that I've witnessed in my experience of acting, so to say. Yes, yes. And is there for either of you, is there a memorable moment of any of the performances that you've put on, whether it was in that open space or in a more kind of traditional theatre, is there a memorable moment that you think, wow, okay, that was that really stays with me? I think maybe there are many, yes. No, I really cannot choose one or because the moment the play starts, the relationship that I have with the public is at very high levels every single time. We've really played this play a lot of times and all along these years and now we are re-introducing it in the theatrical circuit within this Roma festival that I will start soon here on August 13. Okay. 30, yeah. So David, if you want, we are excited. Thank you. Of course, as Alex says, it's really the performance has a really strong impact, so and the people get quite emotional. So there is an Alex as well because it's part of it is his own perspective and it's his own experience. So the emotion is quite high at every performance, but I would refer to this particular representation when we showed it in the street. And I think there are several very interesting things there. First is that, yes, the Park King attendees, the colleagues of Daniel could attend the show and the atmosphere was really different and also and always and of course there was also this, let's say, middle class audience, that's the usual audience of the independent theater here in Bucharest. So this mix of working class, poor working, impoverished working class, also middle class audience, it's quite interesting and it's something you don't really see often, unfortunately. And then also there was this aspect of the police because, of course, we had an authorization from the city hall to show it in public and the police were supposed to come and because they come at every organized event in the public space, but they came, but they didn't want to get really close. Of course, they knew what it was about, but they actually followed it from a distance and but you could hear everything. It was with microphones, it was quite loud. And this proximity of the police and also and these the people feeling safe with us there, safe to watch this performance that talks about police violence. It was quite a quite interesting experience because you actually had all or several of the actors of the people involved of the categories involved in the show and the categories that are usually in conflict and you could see and you could know that each of them perceived the show in some way and it was quite a it was quite a powerful, quite a powerful experience. So if I would have to name one, I think this would be it. Wow, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And my last question, can you talk a little bit about the title of the work? You didn't see anything. Did that come first? Did that come after? Is there? Oh, it was it was part of the testimony that the author of the crime held in front of the jury. Well, and in front of the colleagues and it was only one of their colleagues in the police in the police station that admitted to have seen him to have seen beating Daniel. And she said in her testimony that he said these exact words, addressing them, his colleagues. And he said, you haven't seen anything. It was you are with me, it stands for you are with me, we are together, we are covering one another and you must cover me. So everybody will get out with this. And unfortunately, it wasn't like this. The the testimonies went on and on. And in the end, he got convicted and got a seven year sentence, which is probably due by now. Okay, okay. Yes, that's the story of the title. But of course, the title sort of has two meanings, because there is this direct meaning that involves the policeman that is the killer. He said he advised his colleagues to keep quiet. But then there is also a sort of the title is also maybe addressing all of us, because we all each one of us passes by in the street towards all kinds of examples of violence, direct violence, or maybe indirect violence. And each one of us in order to be able to survive and to keep his mental health in the society in which we live in has to close their eyes and to pretend that we are not seeing what's going on around us. Yes, those were that's why we we chose this particular line. That's why we chose this particular line as a title of the performance. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. Thank you both for sitting down with with with us and sharing and offering some insights into the work to framing some of the before of, you know, and also letting us know some of your yeah, some of the the way you felt about the work and seeing it staged and shared. So that was really I'm really grateful. Thank you for that. And if there any have any final comments or anything you'd like to share with anyone with the rest of us about the work? Well, it was a time when we kind of considered the place where we first staged this was in a public gallery, it wasn't even a theater, then then it moved to a theater and that theater, Makaz Bar Theater, ceased to exist. And then we didn't have a play where to perform it regularly. So we kind of had to close it down. And I'm so happy. It's a real personal thing of joy for me that I can re enter this play on real stage in front of the public. And also I'm very happy for every sharing experience like the how run doesn't. I'm very glad that the play still gets to be seen and gets to be understand by people. So yeah, I want to thank you for this occasion also. Yes, thank you. Thank you for, you know, because it's quite powerful the work. I think personally, but also for the community and just for where we are, you know, we started the conversation you saying, unfortunately, we haven't really moved too far from this reality. And, you know, with that, though, there's also more reason for this kind of work to keep happening, to keep being seen, to continue to be made and shared. So thank you so much for making such important work. And for putting, you know, we have a saying in Spanish, the heart of the piel, you leave part of your skin, you know, part of yourself in it. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.