 We're glad to know you're still there and watching Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. And right now it's time to look at the headlines that made it to the front pages of our dailies this morning. And we're glad to also have with us the person that will be X-raying some of these headlines. It's Mr. Chris Keinde. Chris, good morning and welcome to the program. Thank you very much for having me. Good morning. Good morning to you. Okay, we're beginning with the nation, the Punch newspaper rather. Punch newspaper this morning is our first spot of call. And we're just trying to figure out what we're supposed to get from there. Okay, the leading headline there is that 2024 federal government plans 26 trillion Naira budget debt servicing to gulp 8.25 trillion Naira. That is from the Punch newspaper leading headline. I'd like you to begin with the comments on that. Yes, good enough. The budget is obvious that federal government is almost ready for the project. So that means that once the budget is ready, they have to send it to the national assembly. But therefore they have to pass it. That means that probably we see a budget that is passed before the end of the 31st of December 2023. And so that the budget cycle can start from January. That's what it's about to be. And like what we have in the past, we are trying to just see our budget starting in March, some June, some April. So yeah, it's that late. But the last government try is possible there to evolve to the January to December budget cycle. We don't know. And secondly, this is going to be the highest budget we've had since the history of Naira since we've already dependent. So that's not surprising. But when you look at that budget, you can see that deficit is going to go about 3.25 trillion. That should be a source of concern to anyone. And that is part of what we've been saying. We continue paying debt at a point where we're almost using about 90% of our revenue to service debt. So even if it's going to be as of I think about 3.25 trillion, then you can imagine what is there for capital projects. The third one is the fact that most of them I personally don't believe in our SOPA budget because implementation has always been the problem. You see, of course, at the end of the budget cycle, you try to look at the performance of the budget. You can barely across our board. You can barely see if the ministries, MDAs, MTTs, project performance exceeding more than 40%. Ask yourself, what is that for? So I hope that this is going to be different. And we're going to be avoided when people are oriented. I'm not able to look at it right now. I think we should just be dealing more with capital projects because what we are having now is a structural deficit across the country. And we look at our infrastructure, including even roads. I'll tell my brother, I'm sure one of the heads of the government will capture it. And they go and say, you fly the Toadman Land Bridge. The Toadman Land Bridge is a dead trap now. We cannot speed on that bridge, especially if you're heavy from the Oshuket and to the island. It's full, heavy, full to the island. There is nothing in the stream which we're going to process. So those are part of the problem we are having. I hope some of these projects are going to take over. And lastly, it's also we're going to Oshuk. We have to cut down on our location to security. We are in a situation where we have practically 40% or 30% of our projects going to the security, our security architecture is no good for us. If the government tells us that insecurity is no longer as bad as it was in 2015 or there ever, then why are we spending so much in security? Yes, I know that the country has to be secure, but it's not as bad as it was because we see billions and billions of money coming to the military and to the army. And at the end of it all, nothing is too much to show for it. So I believe that that is where the way to go. Even if we're going to pump enough money into security, we should go to Niger Police and not the Niger Air. And it depends less on the military because in military, it's supposed to just depend right there against the standard immigration. So what are the responsibilities of securing our internal securities and that if they were on it and they were able to do the job? I don't know how many people will agree that the funding to security or for security should be cut, but your reasons are quite strong. Well, we have a situation where only 38% of the budget for 2024 will be used for maybe capital expenditure. But we have personnel and debt servicing costing us 62% of that budget, that very, very big budget. And like you said, it's worrisome. But now, even after all the talk about trying not to take loans by this government, we have seen here that the federal government gets over $1.5 billion. That's the headline, Fresh World Bank AFDB Loan, December. That is according to the Minister of Finance. Okay, so we're expecting to get $1.5 billion loan from the World Bank and AFDB. Your comments please. Although it has come down in history that in Nigeria's history, the last government was the highest borrower of funds as it were. I used that word for international agencies and foreign countries. But at the rate at which the government is moving forward, that has just been there for about three months in this government and the rate at which they have borrower in Nigeria, the various administrations may just be a tight fit. And the President told us that this is not the way to go. That we're going to cut down on our borrower. But the fact is that, stay as yourself. Even if they don't borrow, then I don't wait for people to run the budget as it were. But you have to understand, my brother, that he who is a borrower, he who is a sorer. Definitely we continue to borrow and borrow. Most of the debts will not be paid by this government. It has to be paid back in 20 years time, 10 years time, 10 years time. There's no problem in borrowing. And I've said that time and time again. Other countries of the world, including the United States, but the difference between what they do and what we do here, they invest in issues, they invest in projects that will service the people that are able to create employment, that are able to have a return on investment. So they invest those things on key infrastructures. But here, rather than doing that, we borrow money to pay salary, borrow money for government officials to travel with their family and the rest of them. So at the end of it all, you just see that whatever we borrow as a loan from this international organization is not utilized effectively. And that becomes a problem. So I think that the government should think well, the economic team should think that they can be able to look at ways of raising more revenue, which will be able to diversify the economy and stop doing a sport-dependent country that depends on who you are. If you look at other sectors of the economy and they can expect a sport more, then that will solve the problem. Thirdly, is the fact that also the revaner we've been talking about, most of our money that we earn, when it's changed, we earn, we use it to also import petroleum products. But revaneries are working there, there will be no need for us. So that is part of the issue as a threat. Then we have to look at the Naira. The Naira has a today's over between 100 and 1,030 to about 1,040 Naira. That is unaccepted. Okay. Well, you just talked about the Naira there, and one of the headlines there is subsidy removal. Naira fall pushes food inflation to 30. something percent. I don't know how we are going to survive this year and next year. It's going to be a problem. And the most important part is that we are posing documents saying we should start in our bed. We are losing gas. We should start in our bed. We raise for some of the shocks, as it were, and we should place some level of shock as well. You see your legislators at the National Assembly buying 113 million Naira SUVs for themselves. Meanwhile, the minimum wage of 30,000 Naira, most of these things cannot be paid. The workers are begging for increment in salary. Nobody is guaranteeing that. The politics that the government promised that they're going to get to the poor in Nigeria is not getting anything. You see, I'm showing us as one of the people that is making the rent. We are a community that is dying of mistakes. We brought up a 10 kg bag of rice that was given to him to share to the community of over 1,000. So there is no necessity of purpose in the part of government. If the government is sincere, and they are able to create a new environment and make life meaningful for Nigerians, then overland, Nigerians are not... Compared to other parts of the world, Nigerians are the most patient people in the world. We do apologize. We know some of us that are lovers of... We are always equated that Nigerians are like Asuna fans. Very, very patient. We see them year in year. Supporting their club. The club has not won the EPL over 14 or 15 years. So that is Nigeria. If Nigerians are busy, necessities, food, roads, education, food, lights, good health. That's all. We don't ask for too much. But our government, we never, our leaders, we never look at that. Rather, they want to get rich out so that the poor can get poor. We wanted the health to understand the basic saying that the rich cannot sleep because the poor are weak. When they are weak, their sleep becomes a problem. Well, they have been talking in the Senate now. It got to the point where they have to say in the Senate and beg that they should let the poor breathe. I will never forget that. Let the poor breathe and the gavel went down for the senators to let the poor breathe. Maybe I understood it differently, but it was a terrible thing to have happened. Well, you just talked about palliatives. And I don't know, you have said everything. The insincerity of government is also making a lot of people doubt whether they should trust the government or not trust the government. And so some things may not even work. Palliatives, we understand that in the budget of 2023, from January to June, the budget was 3. something billion, 3.26 billion for fuel subsidy. And then they now made a budget of about 3.17 billion to also do palliatives for three months. So the amount of money that was for fuel subsidy for six months is almost the same amount that they are going to use for palliatives for three months. And we are wondering how we are being hoodwinked by this or there's something we do not understand. Right now, one of the headlines on still the same punch is palliatives. Nigerians condemn poor Russian lambast governors. Will this palliative even have any effect at all? I know you have talked about it, but what really do you think about this whole palliative thing? It is a total scam. It is a total scam. It is a total scam. It is just an avenue for money for the poor. We are even talking about palliatives. Wait and see when the empowerment is formed that they are talking about to the less privileged or whatever they call the vulnerable Nigerians. Just like the mama, the poor is government. I do not know why this government has been through this. This money is money that can be channeling into positive engagement for Nigerians. If you even build up some companies or whatever, short-term or long-term and make Nigerians employed, then that will help. But it is a place where you want to go through the route of also sharing money to about 15 million Nigerians in a country that does not have a basic data that can be able to determine have you ever, let me ask you, have you ever seen anybody that said that they have got any of this so-called money shared by governments? Right from the time of COVID. The minister there, the minister of Nigeria first told us that she was feeding our children during COVID. The children that were at home and the access and trillions and trillions of Nigerians now this government is going through that same route and deceiving themselves that they are going through. It doesn't make any sense to me. That is what it is. That is the government. But I'm forgetting that what is the definition of government? Government is you and I. It's not those that sit in a budget like government supposed to be the citizens because we are the employers of the book. We are the ones that employ them. Everybody, including the president is an employee of the Nigerian people and it is for us to be able to determine what are we getting? What are we getting? We are getting the short side of the stick, the short end of the stick. So all the so-called palliatives is a scam. Most of the money that I have given to the state government is cornered. Except for probably a state like Bono State. That is the only state that I personally say that has made any meaningful. As bad as the situation is in Bono State. That governor of Bono State is doing a wonderful job. He can see what he has done. Even with that government assistant see what he has done. He has chanted most of the money into my vehicle, into providing services, into providing food for his people. Those are things. All the ones that the government promised so-called thousands and thousands of them very good at the promise. To now nothing has happened. We are given one month of jail term by the NLC after the last strike was launched. And the NLC said that it is given to the federal government one month to be able to implement all the policies that have been with it. We are almost on the third month. Third week now. And practically nothing has happened. We have one month of what's happened. And as you see that the group has tried we tied anyone into the government. I don't even think NLC see us. They also have just playing politics with us. But the fact is that anywhere that I see that this party is working is just totally talking about it. I just believe that the government is just sharing money. The money that is not available we are just sharing it and give it to certain individuals. And it's just going to be pocketed up. It should be just the same. And we find a more fundamental way that this money is properly utilized. You said we must offset the pesos so amant. Just as Riley said, pesos so amant is what we recover from subsidy removal. On the other side we are also sharing policy because of the effect of the removal of subsidy. And it goes to the same amount if not more than whatever you said you have recovered. What sense does that make? What sense does that make? Do you believe the subsidy so that as you look at it the so-called policy that you are talking about how many people really get to but petroleum affect the life of every Niger. There is no single Nigerian whether in the village or in town that is not affected by the price hike in petroleum. So if you put I believe that you can hear subsidies should be removed where agreed to similar thing but what have you put in place that the people that you have removed the subsidy you are removing is whatever measure you are bringing in place to be able to replace that. We don't have. We are talking of dangling petroleum to now nothing has happened and we still go back to work. And it becomes a problem as the government of the market forces is going to determine the prices of petroleum and product. But here I know that the prices have been going up in the international market due to the war in Ukraine and Russia. And now the Israeli Hamas war. The prices of which automatically means that the price of important petroleum products is also getting high. So why is it that they have not increased the price also? We can see that this is just an economic somersault on the part of the problem. Let's go to the nation newsrefer. Some of the headlines are also on the punch newsrefer but let's take them from the nation how it's written there. A very sad incident where they wrote that some pensioners, two pensioners slumped during verification in Oshobo. Another story carried or another newspaper carried that 20 of them suffer from exhaustion because of these verification. I don't know with an age of technology why these people are still subjected to these let me hear your opinion about how these things are being done. It's from the young people NYSC how they have to come like 5,000 of them to one small office just to sign their signature or to the verification exercise that people have to be brought from their sick beds and all that. Can't it be done differently? Yes Where there's will, there's hope and there's a way but the way we do things in our country is in this year of technology verification doesn't have to go through that but the fact is that there's corruption within the system and those within the pension board or whatever you call them have a systematic way of siphoning money and putting fictitious names to register just to be able to see so what's happened during the time of now jade may now remember that chairman that pension on the pension or whatever committee the person that was asked to go and verify the losses within the pension now went even deep in his hand more into his hands stole billions and billions of Naira with his son. I think his son is still on the roll but he's in jail now so that is what I bet technology will know that we can do this better and at times when you look at the situation and you see people that's supporting corruption but you see that some of this thing is what some of the siphon servants think and some of them just say that let me have my own share of the cake now rather than wait for my retirement where I don't even know that I'm going to get my pension Naira small term as old as 80 some are 75 and rest of and you call them every year to come and do verification I keep them in the sun for hours. Is there no more dignifying way of going about this verification without putting them through this can they be, we can do provide a good place for them to sit down and they will provide them with basic things like food, drink and rest of the city I can see that in a more relaxed way you don't have to do it in batches short of about you can say today about 50 people should come around and you put them in a month instead of asking old grandfathers and the rest of the grandmothers to come and the end of it how much is even the pension some of them might not get more than 5,000 Naira or 10,000 Naira is that why you ask them to come so is a collapse of the system and one thing we get a more realistic way of going about this they don't need to come around do your verification confirm if they are alive then you pay them and you just let them book an account and money will be wired into the account those that are the petitions yes, we are able to ask it's not the first time it happened in the year past we are using the money to make the pensioners remember you see this money to pensioners come and line up in front of the pension office in we see zoom 4 and 3 area and some of them we sleep at for weeks I'm not saying of days we see them sleeping outside on care flow just because they came for verification for their pension that is not good at all we've seen talking about pension and monies that need to be paid to some people they say N-POWER it has been scrapped anyway or we heard the news that has been scrapped the beneficiaries will get a back lock a paid back lock from next month that's what the federal government is promising but that may not be as strong as a story where the senator that has been removed senator Elijah Abbo has been removed and he is attributing his ordeal to the fact that he was fighting that the senate president now should not be the senate president and he feels that his travails are because he fought against the presidency of senator senate president Abbo over appeal court verdict Abbo Abbo clash over appeal court verdict appeal court has said senator Abbo and he is saying it's because of Acquabio well I don't know how how much you know about the the internal politics in the national assembly and I don't know how you will rate this statement by senator Abbo senator Abbo is on his own as we say he is on his own because I don't know what that has to has to do with the senate president he is saying that the senate president is a member of the court of page tribunal or the initial tribunal that was able to give his verdict he is just looking for a story to go down to the fact that he has been charged it cannot fall to the courts that we are able to do that because the media did it then it is based on the evidence and based on the evidence I don't see there was no place I saw Acquabio coming to testify which I opposed the election of the president of the president of the senate it was not going to contest it didn't contest so what is he talking about he is now trying to rub in the audience of color this is a senator that had the opportunity we want younger individuals in the senate this is one of the people that we are looking for senator Abbo I think is under 40 and under 50 it is not 50 years so you are expecting as an ambassador to be able to present them in the senate what do you see in the senate when a man is slapping a woman and the rest of them even during the screening of one of the ministers he heard what he said when one of them was being asked how come you went to secondary university at this tender you are talking about and you don't have to say some people are very brilliant they don't even know to go to the all sorts of things these have been controversial during the election they have been sad let them just go and lick it and prefer for 20 to 30 percent but they sat on the table of disney president they are just hanging out to straw and that is what he said and disney president had replied as he planned this morning he had been sad and he should just make matters worse that is what he said I just hope that is not an enactment of what they do and how it is possible for someone to influence judgment because if he is confident enough to say that that means he knows what can be done by particular individuals to influence judgment I just hope that like you said he is just holding on to straws and all that but talking about sacking there is a possibility we might be seeing a sack the deputy governor has lost the beat to stall impeachment so in fact in Nigeria when you talk impeachment they are not even talking about indictment they are talking about removal which is not the same thing anyway but they are talking impeachment now it is a wrong terminology by the way but this is what it is he was trying to stall that process of impeachment now the courts have ruled that he cannot stop it anymore but I am concerned about what has been happening between principles or between governors and the deputy governor I don't know if the rules spelt out by the constitution for the governor or for the deputy governor makes them nothing more than just an aid to the governor that the governor can just by snap of finger remove you if they want to remove you it gives me why I don't know how you feel there is this some of us have constitutional rules for the deputy governor because the constitution is as opened up deputy governors as it were so they are just at the at the distance of the governor so what for the governor to pass on to them that is what what is happening in the two states same problem where the governor just has his deputy to remove away from governor I am going to hire one of our store office outside within time for the deputy governor and he has not been given anything so to do so I think we should need to those that crafted our constitution should be able to look at that and be able to give specific functions so that everybody knows where it belongs yes the governor is the chief executive of the state but the fact is remains that without the deputy governor so that means that it is a joint ticket most of it is not most of it is not a ticket you saw what happened in Biasa state where somebody won an election just because of the fact an election as a governor just a day, 24 hours before he was sworn in how to know that his deputy was not properly nominated and then he had some issues and because of that he lost it so the deputy cannot the constitution cannot do cannot become a governor without the deputy but coming to undue state what is very nice in undue state is a terrible one is politics has played but for the mental issues I need to ask where is the governor agreed to do the routine in a terrible way it has been established that it is not in undue state that he says back is in the country but nobody have seen him in undue state so where is the problem we are told that he is in the background he is resident in the background is the background the resident where he is supposed to be is that where he is supposed to be and because of that the opposition came undue state to try to protest and try to ask where is the governor he used them he used them to try to know where the citizens of undue state need to know but what the police the police barricaded and stopped them from that protest by the constitutional constitution it has been established that police cannot stop anybody from protesting nobody, no police not even the inspector general it has been established of the supreme court the only thing you can do is to make sure that that protest is peaceful and by providing a kind of corridor for the protestors if the forerunners go out of their way and they become violent then they can be arrested but that you stand and stop people from being out to protest that is unconstitutional and that should be that shouldn't be here at all so the police for me have taken side on this issue and shouldn't be seen so far whatever the court say at the end of it the court say that the impeachment process should go on the impeachment process should go on I know that has been fighting through his council about the government to stop that don't forget also that this same problem had the same issue with his former deputy governor Abola doing his first term and at the end of it he was unable to move the deputy governor that regime the last and that was also the best and I think the most important aspect of it is that during those days people are not just asking where is Governor since he came back for his treatment abroad nobody has seen him that can be preferred that's serious that's information that so many people may not have known okay at Naira per dollar which is being very generous 30% inflation over 90% Nigerians denied healthy diet that's one of the headlines on the Guardian newspaper that's the Guardian newspaper we are looking at right now but just following that story because they have said 1000 Naira per dollar which you even mentioned that it's about 130 Naira per dollar now federal government pegs FX rate at 700 Naira per dollar as overhead cost spike 26 trillion Naira 2024 budget FX rate by the federal government at 700 Naira per dollar I'm not an economist I'm just trying to understand when you say it is a free market now and all the restrictions on the dollar has been removed let the market forces see what it can do and the federal government is still pegging the FX rate at a particular rate help me understand what it means I'm not also an economist is this is this still a free market yeah go ahead the fact remains that the federal government says it has collapsed these windows into one window and that is why there shouldn't be anything in the parallel market or the Bisham window so there is one better there is a window that is for is it the here and here I forgotten the iron in the window yes iron in that for certain individuals manufacturers and rest of them who want to buy the last for transportation that they should have the opportunity to assess them and that is why you can see that is it last week or so the federal government lifted a ban on 43 items that were that were banned and they said that individuals trying to import such goods can go through that window they were not able to assess them I think that's also equalised but the most important thing for me is that whether I and you mean whether it is a Bishaparaya address the fact is that nobody can assess the dollar in that but it's nothing less than 1,030 and that is what it is then you just go back and just within this just within three months that this how much was the dollar on the 29th of May 2023 when this correct government came into play into place that's the question we asked ourselves it was just within around 799 or so and now it is over 1,000 when we said that it's going to hit some people say oh that's the fact is that if you are not anymore you are not exportable then there is a problem with it you cannot be able to buy it the IMF and the others so-called international world bank and the rest of them have been equalising the government to devalue the Naira the Naira has been devalued unofficially and that is the situation that is why you are having that big problem but if you are not anymore if you are not exporting if you are not doing as much as we can be able to end if we are just to remain an import driven country then the pressure on the Naira and it's affecting manufacture of the useful the government said a few weeks ago that they are shutting down they are laying off staff and that is a problem for them so the government through its economic system should be able to look at areas where we can be able to so that we don't see a Naira by December this is probably going to about 1,500 now talking to in those who wish to get old the Zimbabwe money how much to adopt that is only in Nigeria how much do you think we can come to about $1,200 what have you found in Naira in November? well it's scary what the future looks like we do hope that we will be given the landmarks and the things to look out for so that we will know that the government is achieving what they are intending but right now Nigerian just knows that we are suffering and we do not know how long it will take for that if we see that they are achieving we would know that whatever has been promised will come to us but we don't know unlike us before we wrap up this is the final question I am asking you Israel Hamas war you talked a little bit about it but what is happening there some people are saying this might lead to a third world war there is on the one hand the Russia Ukraine war and then there is on the other hand Israel Hamas war the Arab nation seem to be mobilizing and then America which is boosting right now to be the strongest nation of all time is supporting Israel and supporting Ukraine as well so the world is divided more or less and I don't know where you see this leading us and we as a country the war is affecting us what more do you think it will affect us yes we have been told that this is an unending war that will continue to return it so don't think that the Israeli okay we lost the audio from Chris Karin den Wandu there I do hope that I do wish that I wish that he could continue and just wrap it up there but we have been talking with Chris Karin den Wandu on the program this morning and Chris is a member of the Chattat Institute of Abitrators in the UK is talking to us here in Lagos we were trying to cover what the headlines were this morning on our national dailies today we were only able to take punch the nation the Guardian and the nation newspaper on the program it was punch the Guardian and the nation yeah I was right on the program this morning well we will take a short break and when we return we will be talking we will be visiting our first hot topic just don't go anywhere stay with us