 Hi, this is Maryleigh Johnson with the 21 convention, and you just gave a great speech and people had a big reaction to it. And do they usually get like that polarizing of a reaction to your speech, or to your speeches you're talking about in the debt draft that was the name of your speech? Yeah, so I mean I'm challenging the way people think about the welfare state and that's basically like challenging the way people think about mom. I mean it's something that's enormously popular. In the last poll I saw 80% of Americans think social security was a great idea. So if you're challenging people's core beliefs, then you're going to evoke a reaction. Part of why I was excited to talk to this crowd is that these are people willing to think independently about a whole range of issues where they're challenging conventional wisdom, whether it's about health and exercise or diet and so on. And what I wanted to push them was to rethink the welfare state. So the fact is that we're headed towards a catastrophe, $205 trillion in unfunded liabilities basically because of social security and Medicare. And what I wanted to do was say let's take a step back. Do these programs make any sense? And my argument was no they don't and they should be abolished. And so no question that's going to push them buttons. So my first question was how long in your view do I work for the government for no money? Like if I have a normal job and make $30,000 or $40,000, $50,000 a year. Just for social security, you're talking roughly month and a half. Today, it's going to get a lot worse as these programs actually have to try to close that gap that I talked about. But yeah, for a month and a half, you're working without pay. And I like to compare this to imagine if Walmart asked their employees or demanded that their employees work one night without pay. It would be a big scandal. But month and a half of our lives, 12.4% of our income goes to social security payroll taxes. That is an enormous injustice. That is a month and a half of your time that you don't get to benefit from. If you really take it, make it concrete, what are you trying to achieve in your life? Are you trying to build a business? Are you trying to save for a vacation? Are you trying to save to start a family? That's what's being held back by these programs in order that you're paying for other people's retirement and other people's health care. And it's only going to get worse. So I had a question. I've always thought this was a little off, but I'd love to get your opinion on it. My college, when I was going to college, had mandatory volunteer hours. That was hours that I had to spend volunteering in order to graduate. Do you compare that to anything that the government is doing? Well, yeah, definitely. So mandatory volunteerism has been around roughly since the 90s. I luckily escaped without it. But it comes from the same moral perspective. So the moral perspective is that what you should be doing in life is not pursuing your own happiness. I mentioned things like starting a family or starting a business. There's a moral perspective that says, no, you should be setting that aside and serving others. And that's the basis for the welfare state. It's the idea that, no, you set aside your resources. You worked that month and a half in order to support other people. And it's the basis for things like mandatory volunteerism. And I'm challenging all of that. And I'm saying, no, human beings should not view themselves as servants. The best thing you can do in life is to make your life the best possible. To make yourself into the kind of person who can be happy and successful. And that comes not from serving others or sacrificing from others, but from creating values that are important to you, whether you want to be a writer or an interviewer, or you want to be a producer of pharmaceutical drugs or whether you want to create the next apple. That's what life's about. It's about creating. And that anything that turns people into servants, to burdens and resources, as I put it, is immoral. And that is what I'm fundamentally challenging, to view people as things to be exploited for others. So do you have any opinions about the 21 convention and what it's doing, what it's the information that it's trying to just give people and expose people to? Yeah, definitely. And that's one of the reasons I was so eager to come here, is that I think what I admire about the whole approach is we're not going to accept conventional wisdom as it's handed down to us. We think independently about diet, about politics, about exercise, about relationships from the ground up and really form our own view on evidence. And it's so rare that you see that today. And usually when you do see it, it's usually on only one of those. So to have speakers here from all those kind of core issues of life I think is really exciting. And I think the students here have been really amazing for exactly that reason. Well, it's been so good to hear from you. I loved your speech. You guys will get to see that speech soon. If they want to see more of your stuff and more of your opinions and ideas and research, where would they go? Go to endthedraft.com. Okay, great. This has been the 21 convention and Mary Lee Johnson. And we will see you next time. Bye, guys.