 Good afternoon everyone. So unleashing the potential of gaming market in India. Exciting topic. I think we've heard a lot about it from morning. We've heard some great numbers. All the positive upbeat. So just beginning the session we've been seeing some staggering numbers right from morning. Essentially we're looking at what 750 million internet base we're looking at 500 million gamers that's as big as you and the US market put together right in terms of gamers. Essentially ninety eighty five to ninety percent of them being mobile gamers and we are on the cusp of a 5g revolution. So a lot of staggering numbers there. In fact we also spoken about the potential of the market in itself right I there's there's there's quotes everywhere in terms of the potential of the gaming industry becoming as big as movies and sports put together. It's already happened globally and I think we're looking at we are hoping to look us look at a similar numbers coming about in India as well. That brings about a buzzing ecosystem along with it right and we have some of the key players from the ecosystem along with us today and we'll touch up on some very interesting aspects as we go along in this session and all I can say is the potential is mouthwatering. The report we just released in the morning says that we're looking at a number of almost 11 sorry 8.6 billion in terms of revenue by 2025 and that's that's a lot and that essentially also translates to a economic potential of around 800 billion over a period of five years. So that's a sizable number for everyone to look into. So having said that I'll hand over the topic as I hand over to the panelists to introduce themselves. Jaya over to you. Hi everyone I'm so glad to be here. I'm Jaya Chahar I'm the co-founder and CEO of trade fantasy game TFG. It's a fantasy gaming app and it's played with six player format and the use of digital collectibles. Hi everyone good to be here. I would serve the co-founder and the CBO at eSports XO. So eSports XO is a marketplace for in doing anything you have to do with the eSports and gaming from creating the IP to managing the tournament in doing. Hello hi everyone my name is Srikan. I'm the CEO and co-founder of the company ad scholars. We are not in the gaming but we actually make money for the gamers. So by connecting publishers with the brands and we take care of the ads that run on the gamers. That's what we do. I'd like to talk to you after the panel is over. I want to make some money. So I'm Harish I'm founder game director and writer at Outlaw Games. So my studio specifically focuses on making single player story driven games for PC and console. So that's the kind of game company that I'm building today. So I see a lot of eSports people here a lot of gamers. So you may be thinking of some company when when I say story driven games right. So probably in the future that's where I want to take out the games story wherein when I the moment I say single player story driven games you think of how playing games. So that's that's the kind of company that I'm making. So over to you. Hi my name is Nilesh Kulkarni. I don't belong to gaming but I am into sports education where I create manpower which gets supplied to all the gamers who are doing wonderful job in the industry. So I'm the creator of creating manpower who will effectively deliver what is expected in India and overseas. Andragane. Hi guys. My name is Andragane. I'm a founder of a company called New Gen Gaming where we have two brands. One is called Pantai eSports which is basically a eSports tournament operator. But we focus on the grass root leagues which is a major league and college league and other brand we are starting is called Pantai Production which is creating telling beautiful stories with gaming as a backdrop. So that's us. Hi guys. My name is Nenad Chhaya and I'm the senior VP at Alliance Games. I think probably the only the oldest gaming company in India and we make games which are played by more than half a billion gamers across the world right from IP based games like RealSeal and WWE mayhem to casual games based on kids IP like Little Singham. So it's a fun space to be in and good to see a good variety of speakers today to share our views. Great. Thank you everyone. Let's begin with the topic in terms of here and now in terms of the emerging trends we are seeing as of now and how is it impacting the industry in itself. I think let me begin with a point which we spoke about in the morning in the report right. We spoke about 2.5 percent of RMG spends a part of ad-ex right and I'd like to bring in Jaya here to talk about some of the important trends you are foreseeing or you're already seeing in terms of the market potential here. See in terms of the market potential specifically in RMG space. Firstly I'd say that the entire online gaming is in India currently being driven by the mobile gaming phenomenon completely right. If you completely see the gaming aspect in India while you know I'm sure we have different thought processes on the panel itself but RMG today is the largest user base as you rightly mentioned with 5G coming in that will be quadrupling you know in the next couple of years and so to speak another 500 million handsets are going to be coming in right in tier 2, tier 3, tier 4 cities. What does that really mean for us and the emerging trends that we see today is a lot of people not that in RMG only the cash rewards we've typically known that cash rewards is what is driving people to play more on RMG right. It can be different platforms but today we also see that a lot of gamification is happening on that front. That's what we have also come in right. There is a need for gamification. There is a need to bring in you know different kind of gaming in RMG and also give a better experience to the user base that's already there right. Apart from that what I've also seen and we've been you know kind of speaking about it with different industry leaders as well. The women in sports that are coming up right. If you see the first time ever we've got women's Indian Premier League that happened this year right. Not only have women come in sports but there are more women gamers that have come in right. There are women gamers in fantasy sports today who are almost at 30% of the user base and there are women gamers even across other online games. So I think those are one of the you know that is one of the emerging trends that I see in today's time. On that note I think I bring in another player which is essentially the large player or a large stakeholder which is eSports and Utsav I'd like to bring you into the conversation here in terms of how do you see eSports taking advantage of a lot of trends which are coming in here right. As tournaments, as teams, as IPs how do you see that coming through. RMG is the highest spender that we are seeing right now. I think because we should also see that from the other point of view we have to also see that there's a large amount of audience those are introduced to RMG. But now eSports coming to the picture and we are getting more popular games like BMI Valorant and the more games are coming in the picture. I feel when they're introduced to better game quality games and better quality environment for their entertainment and making money. So I think it will be more towards the eSports and now the question that you are asking we feel the players like Krafton, the Val, the Roy that they're doing right now and they're supporting the third party tournaments and helping us in creating the more IPs. This year also we are almost launching six plus IPs in which the three are going to be micro and the three is going to be the major IPs which is going to be held in more than 20 plus cities. So we feel it's a great part we are building a community right now but over the period of time we feel it is going to be much bigger. We see non-endemic brands coming to the picture and now putting some budget and trying out how it is going to be there and how the engagements are happening. And they are seeing the better results we are trying to make the organic branding assessments and we can help them in that matter. From a publisher developer ecosystem or a stakeholder standpoint Harish how do you see this trend benefiting the developers or the ecosystem in itself? Okay so in the next one two years right? Yes yes yes. Okay so in terms of that what I would say is like in the past one two years what has happened is there were certain genres in mobile right like there's something called hyper casual games which actually failed it's pretty much dead and then after that it moved towards hybrid casual which also is now pretty much gone. So I see a rise or maturity curve where the game industry is being pushed more and more towards more complex or more deeper games which is mid-core and hardcore. So that I've been seeing and a lot of Indian companies are now getting into that space. So I'm seeing this maturity curve wherein the market is demanding it and then the company has are forced to move towards more deeper games. So I say that's where the money pot is in the future going forward. Those kinds of mid-core and hardcore experience it can be mobile or PC console but that's the immediate moment that I see in the market actually. Interesting interesting so for any industry to flourish no matter how much how much organic goodness is there I think there is a significant push which is need to which needs to come from the government in itself right in terms of policies in terms of the benefits which they're giving to the industry. I'd like to touch upon the fact in terms of what are the government policies and what are the initiatives which are coming in from the government to help the industry grow in itself and put India into the on the global map. Sure so two financial years back Indian government announced something called AVGC task force right. So that is now coming out with something that we call AVGC XR policy. So it's going to be thousands and thousands of crores worth of a corpus so from that how many thousands is going to be given to animation vfx games that's a discussion to be had. So the industry they have pretty much openly asked the industry that you people tell me how much money you need and where will that money go and what kind of holistic growth will it drive. So I've been involved with that AVGC task force committee and I told them perhaps the push and the entire focus should be on original IP production because what that does and the government actually the AVGC task force accepted because in their perspective the push towards original IP means GDP economic growth and also soft power growth right. So the government looks at it from that optics but from a consumer sorry more so as a producer what it means for companies is we get to become exporters of IP right across the globe. So as a market from an importer of gaming IP we become exporters of gaming IP. So I suggested this to the task force committee and then they accepted. So we are now in the stage where we are preparing a white paper in fact Anurag and Nina that are also involved in that. So I got a 60 plus companies together and we are making a push towards the government as to what kind of support can be given. So and the government has pretty much to be to cut it short what they have told us give us an approach right if it's if it's going to be incentivizing the development of original IP how can we go about doing it. So we gave a five pronged approach what could be the startup promotion angle what could be the regulatory angle what could be the education and upskilling angle and what could be infrastructure angle and what could be the IEC angle which is the awareness campaigns that the governments do. So how can we leverage governments PIB the press press information bureau how can we leverage that to create a culture. So these are the five pronged approaches that we suggested and they are very receptive towards it why by these five we are hopefully looking to create an economy I mean the gaming market which could become a net exporter eventually. So the vision document pretty much says how can we convert India into a net exporter of games by 2047. So that's the kind of sentiment that's going on. You touched upon two aspects here while you're talking about one is I like to bring in Anurag but before that I'd like to bring in Nilesh here because you spoke about education and upskilling and Nilesh you've been doing a lot of work in that space so I would I'd like to hear your view about the government policies in terms of education and upskilling. So there are two sides to it the good thing is industry is not organized and I use that as an analogy good thing because that creates an opportunity to stabilize it grow it and make it more mature for the future prospects of all the business entities who are sitting here to capitalize the opportunity. So that's one way of looking at it. The second most important part is e-gaming is one sport where it's not residing into a particular country it's phenomenal it's traditionally a global sport even if you introduce or create a new sport it pretty much is catered to global markets whereas majority of the countries design their sports for their respective countries barring e-sports so that another opportunity gets linked with how you look at the lens with which you want to introduce the sporting perspective into e-gaming e-sports and any other areas in this digital world. The third most important part is from a government standpoint that creates job opportunities that creates manpower employability and with this current youth which India is currently at about 55-60% and out of which almost 25-30% clearly wanting to focus on this particular area without having to sweat a bit on the field this creates more opportunity for them to get jobs and i think that's one of the key factors where a couple of discussions which i have had with government officials undermining the opportunity for creating job you know fundamentally every government has a vision document and a mission document to create jobs with this the rapid growth of this particular space trust me the growth is more than 50 to 20 percent for the jobs to be created in the market and that's phenomenal and staggering for on these three fronts i personally feel the the opportunities are good the the sky is blue and the horizon is unlimited for for all of us to be in this space that's heartening to hear as an industry veteran anurag i i'm taking the liberty to say that as an industry veteran what's your point of it because harish has spoken about a lot in terms of the government policies and formulation so sorry i have a very different point of view when it comes to government policy the growth of software industry if you see is because government was not involved and that's how our industry has gone for last 25 years i've been in this industry it is irrespective of the government yes i see a lot of moves being done by the government but the implementation is going to take time so i am not looking for changes immediate changes but as a policy as the growth factor it might or might not even have so i have slightly different opinion on that side i think one segment which i think will have a larger say in terms of government policies is rmg and jaya i'd like to hear your point of view in terms of how do you uh see this space you know i'm very excited to talk about this because i think it affects everybody right let me tell you three years back nobody even though you know in rmg space we had been told by the supreme court there was a ruling that you know fantasy uh rummy poker everything is a game of skill right nowhere in any budget were we spoken about when the last two budgets we have been spoken about right what does that mean it means that we've at least got recognition as a legitimate sector for the government right that's good for india that's good for us as players because you're recognized anybody who's illegitimate tomorrow will not be recognized and will not get support from the country's regulations right number two that i'd like to talk about is definitely the new uh regulations that we've got in terms of tds gst is still sort of pending but uh you know the tds uh that has that has just come in the threshold of ten thousand has been removed and there's uh 30 tds on net winnings today so if you withdraw any net winnings above hundred rupees in a month you will be charged at 30 percent and us as a rmg platform have to deduct that right now what does this do definitely i would say it's a higher slab we were earlier taxed at actually just 18 percent right um so that obviously has an impact on uh the psyche of the user i mean as a user i will actually feel that i'm not going to play right because 30 percent of my tax money right but there are good sides and there are bad sides and i would say there are better good sides because the government is today recognizing you and we need to be we need the government support you know you need it to exist in the country the ease of business uh and the access to a lot of opportunities as a business have to be given by the government interesting because this layer of the industry i think needs a larger discussion topic but in the interest of time i'll move on to the next segment which is uh the core of this entire industry right which is essentially the publishers and the developers and at this point in time i'd like to bring in Ninhard here in terms of your point of view on we're talking about putting india on the global scale right how as a publisher or a developer ecosystem we are geared up to do that both for india and outside india sir that's a very very interesting point Siddhartha and for a long time across the industry there has been this discussion about should developers go self-publishing or do you need a publisher to go with and where we bring or we have been in the in both spaces right when we started off we built our own games and we've published them both for the india and the global market while our games are made in india they're meant for the global market and as a team we work so we are a very ip focused company i mean we we kind of stayed away from the whole services side model and we created our own ip's and also then started working on licensed ip's and i think one of our first breakout hits globally was the game we built on the firm real steel and and then we kind of built out a franchise out of it and that helped us open up to a lot of gamers around the world to understand the user behavior what works what doesn't work for a global title and that's now the learning that we are now bringing to our developer partners where we say hey look if there are 500 million plus gamers out there playing our games across the the bouquet of games that we have why not why how can we leverage that learning and help you guys build better games as a as a development team and we're building this ecosystem where the learning and the talent from the development partner can help us create games which like you said help put india on the global map and and it's not just us there are quite a few other companies doing that both in india and globally i mean why should we not have so there is an e-n activation why not have a similar model in india on that note is there any specific point of view in terms of local nuance or a cultural nuance coming in there for the market which can then be scaled up to the global market anything specific sure i think at the at the core of it the game the fundamental is that the game has to be fun engaging and monetizable right irrespective of what market you go into that doesn't change the the local flavor comes depending on what market you're targeting and what ip you are building on so in india if we are building a another game yes there is a subway surfer but then and to put a very unsettled plug there's a little thing i'm not also out there which we have built but when you're targeting the global market a game different to that market so in the us for example one of our biggest games is wwe mayhem and and it's not just targeted at the us market it's also big across the world so like like i said make in india but make for the world it doesn't matter i mean i may launch little singham as super cop singham in in other emerging markets down the line the game has to be fun and monetizable uh and harish your point of view in terms of developing an ip sure so i'll give first hand experience because the game that i'm making is an indian kind of a game but made for the global audience as in nina was saying what's happening is outside of india especially in the western markets the publishers all of them are clamoring for indian based content the reason is very simple when you look at the history of gaming you will see that there has been games based on american setting medieval european greek north japanese they are all thinking that indian based content is the next jackpot to be had and i've spoken to at least 15 publishers who all agree on this uh are in a very interesting way a movie ended up influencing game publishers and there was a game in 2020 called rajee it was an indian game for pc and console that created a lot of interest among publishers for india based content so that was coming in from was from the same angle right some of the indian movies are now going big abroad also so is there a gameplay opportunity for us there yeah definitely so there is a business interest outside of india there's also a consumer interest outside of india for indian based games but what i would want to highlight here is this india based content it is a novelty factor it will wear off in three five years once the first cycle of it is over after that what will sustain is a good game a good quality game so we can't capitalize on just calling ourselves indian based content for the world all the time maybe for the first five years it will lead an explosive growth after that it's pretty much a matter of quality sure um i think that brings me to the next point which is the revenue driver the monetization and the revenue streams right uh multiple aspects uh there is in-game business revenue there is uh advertising there is influencers there is the live stream there is the esports the teams the price money and so on and so forth so before i get into the industry in itself i would i'd like to bring in nilesh here in terms of how you've seen cricket grow as a sport in the country right you've seen that first hand on ground and how do you draw parallels for that in the esports ecosystem well to start with i did not get an ip l contract so and then i retired from cricket but on a serious note i feel came a little late sorry i feel came a little late possibly i'm too old for it now so but the good part is i think if you break that into five-year cycle how ip l evolved as a sport commercially and engagingly see the fundamentals have remained the same the bat and the ball contest is the same the innovation this year of ip l we've saw we've seen six or seven games going over 200 and out of which three games are chased that's engaging that's interesting those contests are people love watching but from the revenue standpoint both star sports and uh digital media uh geo have doubled their revenues that's staggering for me and in last if you break that into first five years bcci did not have a digital media right the next five years they sold it for more than 3700 crore and today for next five years we've seen it 18 000 crore rights have been sold that's the kind of jump and a potential you have in this particular space and mind you bcci have not introduced cricket as a e-game as yet or globally icc has not done it as yet so that's a great opportunity to look at commercialization but when you see that kind of a revenue you put that into American contest america america have got nfl as the local sport and i'm using word local sport because that confines to that country that's into top three of their sporting chart which has multiple options available for you not only by playing but digitally as well and that's a model in which india can look at potentially because of the 1.5 billion population with the numbers and these people are introducing that sport in a different context for me that's a great opportunity because you know with 55 percent of our youth into this space hungry for this kind of content i see great potential and put that analogy into business side of the cricketing analogy to the e-gaming and the virtual reality i think it's a phenomenal thing because i run a college and in my college 35 percent of our students put their hand up the moment you start seeing there's their e-game competition and when i get to meet the students who walk into door of ism sir i am xyz i'm yz i'm ab as their nicknames into any of the all these guys and i'm like no you are yashesh from no no sir my nickname is this so they are recognized in a class also by nickname that's how the popularity is growing within the fraternity also for me that's a very good analogy from a business to popularity as well uh shrikanth i'd like to bring you in here because this is the core item so what's your point of view in terms of what kind of revenue streams can open up here right because there is a lot of revenue streams outside broadcasting as a space yes so i would like to add it on to nilish there is a very great opportunity thanks to all these people for creating that platform in the gaming industry because we've been seeing playing games for the last three decades and it has been taken out by the other markets mostly the us and the europe markets for the initial two decades when we're growing up but there has been a phenomenal change in the last decade especially when it comes with the india market so when we even look at the brands that are doing the game ads the last decade was more for social media they've been following instagram facebook but this year the brands have come into gaming because they've realized the audience especially the 25 to 44 year old is where they'll actually find on gaming and they get getting the best spots there and there are different types of creative ads even at ads scholars we do these kind of creative ads we build mini games within the games so for example a brand like an icky or a nest they can actually be built a game a mini game inside a game so the audience can engage with these games and the brand as well so it puts it in their mind and different features like in gaming is something that we're doing within in gaming what it comes is it's it's not intrusive just like how a pop-up comes or you're playing it is inside the game so just like how the branding gets placed in the movies it is getting placed it's like a billboard that you see on a western expressway in Mumbai it is actually like that even games like fee for call of duty these are the games where players would love to see these kind of ads so that's an interesting space right because at this point in time that's the avenue for non-endemic brands to come into the picture and when they come in that's when the revenues start going beyond the core segment also right yes so how how are the non-endemic brands looking at it at this point in time because some of them are using it for gamifications so on and so forth but what's the trend there coming up so actually initially a few years back it was only gaming industry related to gamers who used to advertise on gaming publishers but now fmcg is very interested automotive industry other sectors because they understand the audience are out here they want to actually reach out to these audience and the best part with digital is the conversions that you can get right you can track each audience their data how they have reached their website and what has been done on that so especially when it comes with these kind of brands it's it's there and we see for the next two years there will be triple the growth in the advertising industry when it comes with the gaming from like a 2.3 billion dollars to a 7 billion dollars so that's a huge growth and i'm still not talking much about metaverse and the other things which are taking the famous sports now for example in in outside India the concerts have been happening on metaverse Travis Scott is there even Marshmallow has done a lot of concerts in India I've seen only Dalor Mahendi who initiated this but even with that one concert we have got audience of more than 20 million for that right so the growth is phenomenal even in metaverse for the brand placements interesting point because in the session not in the afternoon one of our colleagues is going to put up something specific in terms of metaverse AR we are so watch out for the session from Neeraj later on in the day I'd like to bring in the esports specialists and teams into the picture in terms of revenue and monetization how do you see this space growing and what's the current trend what's the opportunities there so just before I answer that question Nilesh I have been to ISM and gave a speech there trust me out of the class of I think 100 students 70 percent identified as the gamers there so I agree on this part coming to your question revenues are increasing like four years back only endemic brands were interested in sponsoring there was nothing called meteorites both categories exist today and even non endemic brands are getting involved like on weekly basis we are getting queries from brands hey we want to capture this audience we want to pass on this mess our message to this audience what is the best way and my answer to them is that guys we are awareness funnel we are in the awareness not in consideration or conversion funnel if you understand that then we can talk and 90 percent of the people actually agree with that okay we want this only so revenue streams are increasing I agree with that point because we've had multiple discussions in our organization on the same yeah you and us are both on the same page on that account so revenue streams are increasing apart from that even fantasy has been started on the e-sports but unfortunately that company closed or shut down their e-sports fantasy part that was the third stream but majority of the revenue will always be the sponsorship and second biggest revenue will be the meteorites which both are happening now like we were done collectively on loco where it was only on loco so we sold them the meteorites for that event interesting from an rmg standpoint jay i'd like to hear your view in terms of monetization and revenue outside i mean you've touched upon the fact that there is a lot of taxation issues and other things but how do you see that panning out outside the current challenges which are facing there as an industry see firstly i'll say a lot of new monetization models are also coming up right everybody here even anurag spoke about you know how media rights will always be very important and i think advertisement and sponsorship will always lead the way when it comes to driving revenue for a particular platform right and of course from a rmg perspective the direct revenue to us actually comes from the commissions or the rakes that we you know charge but apart from that i'll go back to my previous topic where i spoke about gaming right see anything which is engaging and innovatively coming up in a game right like at tfg i certainly cannot talk about what's going to be launched but we are coming up with gamification in this sector also which is linked to again monetization right so you develop newer streams for revenue right and that includes probably in app purchases it can include you know a new gaming here it can include you know right from even merchandising right vouchers coupons all of that also but like you rightly mentioned there is a challenge there is taxation even today incentives or any referral bonuses that we give are taxed right as long as of course they can be withdrawn so if they cannot be withdrawn they're not taxable right but my point of view out here is very simple that there is a lot of innovation when it comes to revenue streams and that is linked to product features that's what i'm actually trying to get at so in the morning session i think nithish interestingly mentioned one point which is download to monetization ratio is not up to the mark in our country right now right and nina any point of view on that particular data sure so if you look at india as a market right we are predominantly a casual gaming market and then that to the primary monetization is ad supported games with i would say 98% ad support 2% in app right and that 2% goes to rmg and pubg so from but but from that yeah bgmi but from that perspective what we also do as a publisher is we work with brands and like shrikant was mentioning we do brand integration within the games so for the past two or three years now we have been working with hurshees for one of their brands which is in one of our kid games so what we deliver to the brand is not just the cpm rates of the impressions is the engagement right on an average my game for a kid brand would deliver to them in multiples i mean an average game session is five to seven minutes three times a day so that's 28 21 to 28 minutes of engagement which we can get and and that sort of brand is massive now it's a matter of how people shrikant and us can and you can team up and go to the brand and show them that value and that is what the monetization will write and obviously eventually yes as games get better engagement people are spending on bgmi which means that they are not averse to spending people are spending on rmg people are spending on running games eventually they will come and spend on a on a subway surfer or a maya nagari or those kind of games as well so monetization is there it just needs to be channeled in a proper manner you know i just like to add to that so predominantly people have always gone to spend higher on a game because there is cash rewards right if you give them right gaming experience it's more engaging of course the user base is willing to spend more and a perfect example is pubg or bgmi right because you get a certain engagement or the certain special power then or you do an in-app purchase so the idea is to give more engaging features again you know absolutely and from an esports perspective itself i mean in terms of challenges you see at this point in time specifically to bring in a sponsorship or a revenue or monetization in india as against global titles or global teams because see at this point in time we do not have the peripheral sponsorships just like a merchandise deal right those kind of the things are not yet open or have not yet opened up and what are the reasons and how do you see that progressing as the rock was saying like the broadcasting rights and and the different kind of like peripheral sponsors or the power by sponsor that we're talking about so it's kind of opening up we are getting the briefs we are working closely with group and other agencies also we are seeing non-endemic brands are coming in that the challenge i will not say this it's a challenge it's more about we they're saying you what can be done and we have to show them key what can be done in in terms of integration in come terms of visibility and what they can get okay so it is as a as our job role also key to convince them and show them the results also key what is the kind of ROI that they are getting from there so i see the interest coming in and i i feel now yes the budgets are not very high right now but in the coming years coming down the line three four years we'll see the budgets are coming in cool so just a quick pass i mean closing note from each one of you in terms of where do you see the potential and where do you see the future a quick rounder sure i'll start from relation and we'll move so for me the closing note is very simple 1.5 billion population the consumer the consumption is happening india the world is looking at india as the next next big sporting destination that creates multiple opportunities for us to stabilize establish and define the growth path okay so what i would say is the biggest disruption that's going to happen in probably three or four years from now is going to happen surprisingly in pc on console the reason that i say that is today i know there are 25 productions happening in india so the actual number might be closer to 50 and from these experiments one of them are going to be a major hit the kind of hit that i'm telling you is going to be something let me give you an example in a country called estonia there was a game called disco elizim it's an indie game made by on a very modest budget that game had a net revenue of more than 80 million which is 600 crores so that's the kind of scope that i'm talking about so from these pc console experiments that are happening my game included one or two of them are going to reach that kind of a scale when it does the gaming industry in india is going to have a before and after moment so 2026 is that time is what i'm guessing yeah i'll add it to it because i also see the pc and console market is coming back especially with the other markets that we notice how they're growing on the metaverse ar and the vr this is going to be the next future for the five years and especially on the monetization part the mobile has been growing and the next decade is opens up different revenue streams for all of us in terms of the esports and ick more cross-platform probability when we'll see i think the more ips and in terms of esports games and publishers are coming to india and i i see we should build more global ips from here starting from india and then taking it to different regions so to add to what harish said uh while pc and console will grow i think at mobile we haven't peaked yet and we're still growing and and there's a lot more that we can achieve we will see breakthrough ips come out of india for the global market uh games which have been created which could yeah the before after moment is still even in mobile waiting to happen and hopefully the casual gaming and the mid-core gaming market will start making as much money as rngs see i'd like to just say that online gaming is a sunrise sector for india right and i'd like to say that each one here is adding to that growth right whether it's a game publisher it's a casual game or it's esports everything adds to that and i just say that online gaming as a whole is going to be if not more at least driving five to ten percent of the global revenue india will do it that's what i stand for and it's not you know it's not going to be just rng and mobile gaming i've personally passionately been a pc gamer also and a ps gamer also so uh but that sector is of course it's a it's a different gameplay altogether but i think together uh in india as an online gaming sector i think we should be able to drive a significant amount of global revenues also um couple of points uh esports we have not even touched the tip of the iceberg so there's a long way to go on console side i have a very different opinion there that console base is so small yes there might be a title which might do become a hit internationally but consumption in india for that title won't be that big because the title the box is as small that's one pc yes it is growing very fast uh but why i still believe though i was a non-believer of mobile esports to be very precise but mobile is a personal device whereas pc is still a family device person might have one pc at home which is shared by the parent and the kid but mobile is very personal so mobile will grow and i agree with ninhada also uh though not to the extent that we have not reached the pinnacle yes we might have not reached the pinnacle of gaming on mobile as the user base because one thing which covid brought in was number of gamers my wife who never who hated me for me spending so much time playing games she became a gamer of course she played grudo more casual game but that number is increasing day by day now so one little thing i'll add one small detail about on top of what andrag was telling so 2022 saw a resurgence of something that we would call handled gaming devices so i'm talking about device like steam deck and asus rog ally and playstation is also now coming up with another handheld so the biggest problem on pc on console was always that it was a home device right it's not flexible it's committal so that has been broken away in the biggest way in 2022 after the massive success of steam deck every pc manufacturer is jumping onto created device category that is on your hand can be taken everywhere in fact microsoft is so bullish on that device category that they are now creating a version of windows that is compatible for controller based handheld devices so that kind of overcomes all of those problems we were talking where it is only in the home where you can't game it everywhere so that kind of disruption is happening on the pc console space which means it also has an implication on monetization because there is more engagement now so pc console is getting there where only mobile phones were there pc console is also getting into that flexible kind of an environment so by last point Harish my issue is not with the device per se but if my kid asks for a phone it's a multipurpose device for him on he the basic purpose for him to is to talk but he doesn't use for talking use for video my son is 10 by the way for video youtube and to play games okay he's okay if you take out take the same out he's perfectly okay with that so the device is multipurpose so people parents at least tend to give it to them that they can be connected which is not true for mobile handheld consoles secondly are microsoft came up with zoom you know what happened sony came up with the psp you know what happened so yes they might be some it's apple came up with the ipod and see where it is apple came with iphone with most expensive device today and doing good numbers so i i'm not saying this is how it is but this is how traditionally it has been there's a lot of great to see so much passion a heated discussion in terms of the industry in itself but i'd say this lot of optimism there's a lot of passion i think we see a lot of passion in the ecosystem in itself all it says upwards and onwards and in the near future hoping to see franchises as big as ipel hoping to see titles bigger than the movie titles and and it's it's it's on the upward upward trajectory thank you thank you everyone thanks a lot