 IMAGIN Thank you for keeping us company. If you just tuned in, this is Y254 Discussion Monday tonight, we'll be looking at the political drum beats that have been ongoing only three years to go and we have our politicians here and they are trying to drum up support and the question is, should we be having politics at such a time? I'm speaking to Ngunjiri Kajuki, he's a political analyst. How are you Ngunjiri? Thank you very much for having me tonight. You're welcome. Yes, we have had a long weekend and of course, traversing three counties, or is it four counties, that is Nairobi, Vika Moranga, Amtu Kirinyaga. Alright, in these four counties that you are traversing with it, are they political issues or something personal? Of course, we have what we call public opinion on the ground. This is basically what people feel and the attitudes that the citizens have towards the government. Alright. Now we have only three years to go. We had the general election in 2017. Those who won won. But now we have groups of people moving around, politicking and our president has been very undermined. Let's work. Tems for politics will come. But that has not been happening. You should be having this. What we have been having is basically two groups, that is the Kieliweke and the Tangatanga. The Kieliweke Trim is a team that claims to be the mouthpiece of His Excellency Uhuru Mikaike Nyata, where the case is otherwise, the president has not given anybody a job to be his spokesperson. On the other hand, we have the Tangatanga team, which is drumming up support for the deputy president, William Samoe Luto. In that case, then perception has it that these guys are campaigning early. So let us try to dissect these two issues. That is the Kieliweke factor and the Tangatanga factor. The Tangatanga factor becomes a nuisance when we have members of parliament that are following the deputy president to each and every corner of this country. Well, it's a freedom of movement. We must be careful because they also have their constituencies. During weekends is an opportune time to meet with the electorate and go and hear their concerns, attend barriers and water views. But these MPs have defied the natural call, which is why they went and seek a mandate from the people. So I think that as long as we continue having leaders who are not going to their constituencies on weekends, perhaps what we should be talking about because the deputy president is a national figure and he's the deputy president of the Republic of Kenya. He can move to any corner as he wishes, but at least those adjutants, that is the MPs in the Tangatanga team, should go slow because the deputy president has got his team. If he's going to Muranga, for example, let the member of parliament who is the host, let the neighbouring member of parliament also come. Let the governor be there, the women representative, the senator also be there. But now when we have somebody coming all the way from Ishiro to Muranga, then that one becomes a campaign. On the other hand, the Kiheleweke team is advancing a narrative that look the deputy president is disrespecting the president while we have not had the president complaining of his deputy. So we get a Kiheleweke team that is trying to control the perception that look, if you don't do the line, then come 2022 will not grant you what you want. So the Kiheleweke team is taking advantage and capitalizing on the president's silence upon his deputy moving around and using that opportunity to advance an agenda. In a short term, I would label that Kiheleweke team as agents of deceit. On the other hand, the Tangatanga team I would label them as empty rhetoric. But now you just said the president and the deputy are together. It's only the groups, the Tangatanga Kiheleweke, the one who are bringing the perception that there is no unity. But then would you say because we have not seen that would you say the Jubilee House is divided? Remember we have a government that was elected on a Jubilee ticket. And the majority of... Yes, that comprises of the executive and it and every body that is within the executive. Then we have a party, the political party Jubilee. Remember Jubilee has never held any grassroot elections ever since it was started. We only had interim chairman, we only had interim county chairman, interim organizing secretaries. We have never had elections from the grassroot. So when I look at the architecture of the Jubilee party I can see a problem because politics of realignment as Donna J. Dalton, a political scientist who in his book Citizen Politics are somehow complex and when the citizens interest are not captured in the political alignment that get into the elections then yes the candidate that they like would in a high probability win that election but the people won't have their hearts within that party. So what is happening in Jubilee is that it is a party that has a very nice office along Kangani. It is a party that has a secretary general, is a party that has an interim chair, is a party that has not a vice chairman. I don't even know who is the chairman of Jubilee. I think he is not active at all. We don't have county representatives, we don't have constituency representatives, we don't have word representatives and on the various occasions that have spoken even within this state broadcaster I've always said that the Jubilee party hold its primaries, no not primaries but grassroot elections. Actually without these attributes Jubilee party strong enough with it last. That is where I'm coming to. Without a very nice foundation as a political party then you are bound to fail and they are unrecure and I'm happy because I saw the secretary general of Jubilee respond to such concerns when he said that they are going to start a political party academy and also hold elections. So for me as a young public intellectual I would wish to have a country that has two or very few strong political parties that are built on ideologies. So that when there will come a time perhaps when I want to seek the mandate of the people I will have certain beliefs and I will align myself to a certain political party because I believe in its traditions but the case is otherwise. Now we are just speaking of the Jubilee party but just recently actually over the weekend we saw the former CES for sports HSA now supporting Honorable Mosali Mudavati and ANC now. They are now with Kiliopa Malala the senator for Netkaramega so they are supporting now the ANC and they put it clearly we want to be there when 2022 comes in. Now the question is they have been claiming the Jubilee House is campaigning and specifically the Tanga Tanga team they have been like these people are campaigning but now they have joined the work on what should the narrative change? Let me say that of course politics is a game of interest and it is perception that works in politics facts rarely works so when you have a guy like Rashid Chesa who was a very close adjutant of the deputy president and not once he has declared his intentions to support the deputy president in 2022 when you have him they come to Mudavati ANC party then you see a situation of he comes from western you see a situation whereby the western people want to make an in-house overhaul they want to have a rejuvenation of their own community because when you look at the political traditions of the Luya people I think they are the second majority in the country but have never been united every time that we have elections ever since the days of Kijana they are always looked at as a swing vote so when I see them when I see a Chesa align himself to ANC then I see an in-house rebel but again we must speak and speak loudly to shan any empty political rhetoric that is happening in this country especially at this approach because we are three years to the next generation when I look at advanced democracies here and these are countries like the United States and do a comparative political study I get my country as a phenomenon I have never understood what happens in my country we have finished an electioneering period but people have begun to rearrange themselves again no work can happen at such environment however politicians are paid to politic but what I always and I will always be against is those empty political rhetoric let if people are going to traverse various regions of this country let them go and build a school let them go and build a laboratory let them go and build a bridge that is what you want but this is a politics of doing press conferences answering who I don't know who is answering who we are coming to our economy and we cannot wish to have a height political temperature so what I would wish to see if leaders that are given the mandate buy the people to work let them work even if they are going to they are traversing various regions of this country let them stop the 2022 narrative because I can assure you the people on the ground are bitter what they want to see is development and they want of course they already know who fits the bill and who will not even be a multiple choice for them so what we want now as a country is development and development nothing else now as a political analyst so the opposition one of the opposition leaders that is Kalonzo Musioka joining with Gideon Moi and now it's like they want to work together he has his party Gideon has Kano now are we seeing a unity between Kano and Waipa okay in politics anything is possible because we normally say that there are no permanent enemies in politics and who could be the flag bearer look at it this way I saw Gideon Moi yesterday was invited a link in Ukambana and that is a signal and as you have seen when the handshake happened in March in March between the president and Reilo Dinga yes there was something called the building bridges initiatives and a mofa's group that has no provision in the constitution yes we agreed as a country to affirm peace and uphold peace but this building bridges initiative group already has an answer we wanted to achieve which is like you will see the means let me now say the end will justify the means will justify the end they want a referendum and in this referendum they have already given themselves an interior of what will happen and already I know in their minds you should know who can be the prime minister who are the two deputy prime ministers and who are the others in the top cream of that leadership when you had Kalonzo Musioka during his father's Bahariwe Dink lament that nitaku wa mutu wa mukono wa huru kenyata that was a signal that we will do this and by view of the handshake is that it has always been good but one thing that people have maybe not taken into account is that Reilo Dinga is a smart politician and what he did was what we call a cost benefit analysis but yes I will agree to join you and I will agree to meet my political activities but at the end of it I will have something an open check so already they know that uhuru kenyata is the only person the president is the only person who holds their political future on his palm because if he decides to support the referendum and as the political spokesperson of the Mount Kenya region then chances are that perception in the Mount Kenya region will shift to that direction so Kalonzo has seen a leeway that if uhuru supports the referendum and in the guise of inclusivity then it is going to be a deal done and in that case the deputy president who depends on the Mount Kenya region will have been fixed so I know there is already planning and politicians will never sleep I know they always think about their political future so when you see someone like Gideon Moi visiting Kalonzo Musioka this is a gesture that the two of them could be in for a coalition and especially what is being talked as a change of the governance system would would be a reality now at this point would you say because it has been denied time and again since its inception would you say the handshake was a sabotage to one of the politicians the handshake was not a sabotage to one of the politician the handshake was a pact we will be remembered by generations to come that two antagonising sides can shelve their political interest and join together for the sake of this country but they shelve their interest anyway because we are seeing them trying to contest in other means I'm saying you asked me whether it was a sabotage so I'm saying of course in between there are people who have affected interests and as you can see the referendum issue it is not a miracle that now His Excellency Uhuru Mugai Kenyatta is a good person to the Nasa people is not a miracle so they have what they want to advance and this is a political card setting of 2022 what has changed is the president whom they competed with and ask yourself and I even invite Kenyans to ask themselves why would they be opposed to the deputy president and yet play down to the president is all about political interests the president had good intentions when he shook hands with the eternal brother Odinga so we are going to experience interesting times ahead again before I forget yesterday something happened in my county Muranga county in a church in Kandara constituency whereby a member of the Kiereweke team got a hostile ground in a church first of all let us not break this is a holy place this is a place where we are supposed to go and worship and go on our knees before our maker we are not supposed to go and do any kind of chaos but the politicians claim it is the only time they could have a moment with their electorates and remember the church has a position because the church is the moral compass of any society they must fit in the rightful place in the society so the church must not allow leaders that are sparking divisions among a peaceful people a podium they must not be given a podium if somebody is given a microphone and they start digressing division and politics of hate and empty political rhetoric let them be stopped and I'm happy but not to support huliganism I'm happy that we have seen on several occasions certain leaders being stopped from speaking because those are politics of division as we come to an end I view for the referendum and do support the ongoing politics wow am I for the referendum what I can be able to say at least for this moment is that a referendum could be inevitable at the backdrop of the circumstances that our economy is going through of course there are discussions of reducing the number of members of the agast house there is also a discussion of reducing the wage bill that could be the discourse that I as Kayuki Ngonjiri would want to be involved in because in a way is a discourse that credits Wanjiko any other discussion that seeks to create positions for people I would not be in for that so what I would advise yes we are talking of inclusivity and there is that discourse of the expansion of the executive but is it only the expansion of the executive that would cure the problems that have been dealing in our country no let me give you an example and this is a problem that has been tested some years ago I think over a century ago is it not a century over half a century ago in the current day Germany there was a country then known as the Weemer Republic whereby power was concentrated at the center and there was no checks and balances the Nazis were given all the powers by the people and the fruition of that was the fall of the Weemer Republic that is in the wake of the end of the Second World War so let us not have a situation whereby we have very strong powerhouse at the top and then centrifugo forces of power are concentrated at the same center because in a way when a prime minister is in government and when we have a president then that one means that is one government again we don't want to have a situation whereby a representative of the people comes from parliament because in such a case mostly even in advanced democracies the president is in charge of the foreign policy and the prime minister is in charge of the domestic policy so we want direct representation if it is inclusivity we have positions of cabinet secretaries let us not satisfy an ego of few people and sacrifice the future of our country if we don't sacrifice for our country we shall be the sacrifice alright thank you so much for your sentiments and many thanks Bakum for keeping us company he has been my guest Karyuki Gonjiri and now coming up next is why Masha Riki ICDD TSK is very much ready so keep it Y244 have yourself a good night my name is Dereva Hilewi