 I just wanted to make a little brief announcement for everybody. I'm giving a little bit more time. We're waiting for, we expect both of the other board members whose names are up here to show up. So we're giving them a little bit more time to get here and we need at least one more for a quorum. So I'm gonna wait a few more minutes at least to see if they show up. And thanks for your patience. We'll get started as soon as they get here and get ready. Okay. Thanks for your patience, everybody. I'm trying to track down our other two board members. We've tracked one of them down in New Mexico, but the good news is that the other one is on her way. And so we are going to wait for her to arrive. And she, I'm sure, is getting here as fast as she can and we will get the meeting started as quickly as possible. We'd rather wait than have to move this to a date in the future. So thanks for your patience again and we'll get started as soon as possible. Okay. Everybody, thanks for your patience. I'd like to call to order a meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Cultural Heritage Board and ask for a roll call, please. Let the record reflect that all board members are present except for board member Murphy. Next we have the approval of minutes. We have two sets of minutes. First is for the meeting on June 20th. This was the joint meeting with the Design Review Board. Board members, any corrections or comments to those minutes? Okay. And seeing no objections, those will stand as printed. Next we have the draft minutes for the August 7th, 2019 meeting. Same question. Board members, any corrections or comments to that set of minutes? Okay. None. Those will stand as printed. We'll move to the statement of board purpose, item number three. The Cultural Heritage Board shall consider the following matters, standards, guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable in determining whether to grant or deny a permit. Whether the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the building. Whether the proposed change is compatible with any adjacent or nearby landmark structures or preservation district structures. Whether the colors, textures, materials, fenestration, decorative features and details proposed are consistent with the period and or are compatible with adjacent structures. Whether the proposed change destroys or adversely affects an important architectural feature or features. And the Secretary of the Interior's standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings as well as such other matters criteria and standards as may be adopted by resolution of the Cultural Heritage Board. Next we'll move to public comment. This is a time for any person to address the board on matters not listed on the agenda, but that would be of interest to the board and anybody who wants to would have three minutes to speak. So I will open public comment and I have no cards. I'm not seeing anybody who wishes to speak, so I will close public comment and move on to statements of abstentions. Board members, any abstentions? No. With that we'll move to our one public hearing. Item 6.1, the public hearing for the landmark alteration permit, Thomas Replacement House at 124 West 6th Street. Board members, this is an ex parte disclosure. Board member Fennell, anything to disclose? Board member McHugh, anything to disclose? And board member DeBacher, anything to disclose? I did visit the site and took a look at it. I didn't talk to any neighbors or any further people. And I also visited the site and have no new information to disclose. Go ahead and just mention that into the mic if you don't mind. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, visited the site, didn't speak to neighbors, but haven't gone back since we had it the first time. Okay. All right. With that, we have a staff presentation and Mr. Ross, would you make your presentation, please? Thank you, Chair Edmondson and members of the board. This is Adam Ross, city planner here. The item before you, Thomas landmark alteration permit. It's located at 124 West 6th Street in the city. It's to construct a new two-story single-family dwelling and detached garage with an ADU accessory dwelling unit above that in the West End Preservation District. It replaces a previously existing home on the site that burned in a 2000, October 2017 house fire unrelated to the wildfires. Project location, it abuts the Santa Rosa Creek and the Prince Memorial Greenway within the south side of the West End Preservation District. Here's an aerial of the site. It's on the corner of Pearson and 6th Street. It's a low density residential general plan land use designation, which allows for single-family homes and at times attached single-family homes are permitted. The zoning is R16 HSA, which is a residential zoning within a historic district and also the stationery combining district. I wanted to mention that the station area combining district does not affect the design of single-family homes. Here's the project location within the West End Preservation District. The site was formerly a contributor to the Preservation District, but since being destroyed, it is no longer carries that status. Again, it's within the downtown station area specific plan. This does not govern the design of a single-family home, though. Here's some previous elevations. As you can see right on the corner, looking into the site of Pearson and 6th Street, you had a fence right up to the curb line. The home, I believe it was previously a five-foot side setback, a side corner and a five-foot front setback. Here's the original frontage of the home. Here are the proposed elevations from the front provided to you as an attachment. This is the previous concept submittal, and I'll go over into some details on how it's different from when you first saw it. Again, I'll get into it, but replacement of the greenhouse window with a bay window, an addition of a bathroom window and facing the street. Here's the proposed site plan. From the property line, it's now a 10-foot setback, and the vision triangle is shown. That was one of the concerns with the original project. There was an attachment as an email with the only concern being the vision triangle of the project site, how it used to be, again, for reference right here with this fence in the closeness, but now the new home as proposed provides a 10-foot side yard setback. It's actually a little bit more. This site plan is measuring from the property line because here's the sidewalk. It does comply with vision triangle requirements. I just wanted to touch on one more thing on this site plan. Normally, under R16 development standards, you have a 15-foot side yard setback, which would be this location here, but within preservation districts, you are allowed to vary from those based on CHP approval, so long as it is in compliance with the existing preservation district. Here are the concept elevations you saw previously. Some of the comments made were more of a symmetrical look of the windows on the eastern elevation right here. An addition, a request for railings in the front porch. And window, let's see, okay. So windows, the addition of a window there. So it's considered wood and fiberglass frame windows for thinner sight lines and more glazing to frame ratio, avoiding heaviness of vinyl. Modern ornamentation is acceptable, but do not use ornamentation. Create a welcoming view with window alignment and symmetry. Include handrail and complete lighting plan details at the next submittal. Those were requests from the CHP. There are a few more that I have outlined in this presentation, but again, here's the concept and consider adding a second window to the bathroom. Consider adding exterior mullions to the glazing to break up the large panes. Replace the greenhouse window with a small projected bay window at the street side elevation and consider drop siding in the hardy plank. A second window. Sorry, I'm going to back up here. More symmetrical window placement was added. We have shown here. So they've spaced out some area right here. The second one was wood and fiberglass frame windows for thinner sightless. For pricing of the wood windows, it's a bit more financially burdening. However, the use of vinyl windows does not preclude the future installation of wood frame windows. And the applicant utilized modern ornamentation at the top. These little ornament fixtures, which on another slide goes into at the roof pitch and at the front porch columns right at the top here. And a welcoming view and window alignment symmetry. So again, this is the east side, but on this side, they've changed that greenhouse window with the bay window. Added a second bathroom window. So they changed the shape of this window here to match, to be more symmetrical here. It's right here. And on the handrail in the front right here was added. The exterior mullions were not compatible with vinyl windows. However, the windows were redesigned since the first proposal. Replacing the large front picture windows with two smaller ones and adjusting the east and west windows for more balanced appearance. So there's the original submittal. Here's the new one. This is now two windows instead of one. And then the hardy plank siding. Per the applicant, the original redwood siding was round edge drop siding, but was replaced several times with beveled siding in the 1960s. And they're requesting hardy plank siding to remain. Here's some of the lighting fixtures, an example of the bay window, the porch railing, and the ornamental fixtures as well. We have the floor layout, living room, dining room, and the three bedrooms upstairs. For the ADU, one of the requests, and this is the concept, was to bring the dormers back in, to pull them in, to be a little bit more clean edged and create proportion, and the applicant has done so. You see here. Another change was also the garage door. It was two separate carriage doors designed. Now it's one continuous garage door. Here's the layout of the garage and the ADU above that. So again, I mentioned previously, but the neighborhood concern was about the vision triangle. So this was the previously existing, you'll no longer have a fence up against the sidewalk. The walnut tree, part of the vision triangle, requirements by code, nothing over three feet, any trees have to be trimmed to above seven feet, so no branches can hang below seven feet. That concludes my presentation. I'm here for any questions you have. The applicant is here to also answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Board, any questions for staff before we hear from the applicant? What is the rule? You know, I know that we're generally supposed to shy away from vinyl windows and go to the fiberglass or the wood clad. Are there cities putting this before us with vinyl windows? Is that just something that's up to us as a board to choose? I mean, I know that there have been projects that have been rejected before because of vinyl windows. And so my question would be what is the ruling or the official stance on the vinyl windows? Yes, it's ultimately up to the board. However, with new construction, there's a little bit of leeway as far as what the materials could be versus rehabilitating a historic building. Any other questions for staff at this time? Okay. Board Member DeBacher. Thank you. One of the things we had asked for, it got recorded as handrails, and that actually was what we were looking for. We weren't really looking for railings necessarily. I don't see the detail of the handrail, but we had asked for. Is it going to be similar to the porch railing picture that's there, or do we... There's a difference between handrails and railings. I just want to make sure staff is clear on that. Handrails are what you have on a stair. Are railings what you would have, like on a balcony or on a porch? I'm going to let the applicant answer that question if that's all right. It's a little hard to see, but if you look at the West elevation, you'll see there's a handrail with a ending baluster and a decorative finial there on the porch now with the steps. I'll further my question a little further. The cap you would use on a railing tends to be bigger and broader. You can't really wrap your hand around it to necessarily brace to walk yourself up a stair. But the general design can be seen, I think, from your drawing. I think you're on the right track. I had kind of hoped to see what you were going to do for the handrail, and particularly if the handrail has to be at a different height, the handrail itself from the railing cap of the stair, that's a fairly significant design issue on the Victorian that they're trying to allude to here. I kind of wish that information was here. Not a deal breaker, that is the sort of thing we're looking for, and I get most of it here, I guess. Other questions? Do we have a specific model number or model type for the vinyl windows you're planning to use? Is it going to be the one actually in the bay window or the vinyl window examples you've shown here? Those were taken from the manufacturer. I have the owner of the modular company, if I could have him answer. Okay. We typically use Simonton windows that are manufactured here in California. They are a subsidiary of Geldwin, so it's flexible. I don't know if there's a preference or something that is more consistent with the design standards that you have. Typically, we do use Simonton. Any particular series of Simonton? I can reference that information for you in a few minutes, please. I have to look at the plans. I'm not at that granular level of detail in the specifying. What I've got next is more of a statement than a question, so I'll just let that go. Oh, I should ask, I will ask further. Do you offer any form of true divided light on your glazing? If it's available in the market, then we can offer it. Yes, if that was something I'd typically reference just back to our client, whatever they would like to do or would like to pay for, but yes, if it's available in the marketplace, we can use it. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Any other specific questions for staff before we ask the applicant for a general presentation discussion? If you're wanting to give us a presentation, please do that. Thanks. I don't have a presentation. Adam's done an excellent job of putting everything together for me. Okay. All right, thank you. Well, this is a public hearing. I don't have any cards on the item, but you don't need to fill out a card to address the board. I do. You'll have three minutes to make your comments and ask you to state your name for the record when you begin speaking. And with that, I'll open the public hearing. And please state your name. My name is Cher Ennis. I live a block away from this project in the west end. I want to start by speaking briefly for Robin Stefani, who was here until a few minutes ago. She had to leave that her time allotted to me. She was here due to the late start. She wanted me to let you know that she lives directly across the street from the project, and she's in favor. She's looked at all of the plans, and she wanted to express her support. I'm also here to express support for the project. I appreciate some of the changes that were made, and previously I was the person who had come and talked about the vision triangle. I had some interaction with the applicant since then and have some assurances that the foliage will stay up high and down low, and that will really serve safety in the neighborhood. So I'm looking forward to our neighbors being able to come back into the neighborhood and have a good life there. All right. Thank you very much. Does anybody else wishing to speak? Please approach the podiums. I'm not seeing anybody. I'm going to close the public hearing. And I'm going to go back to the board members for any other questions for staff or the applicant or the applicant's home builder. Not seeing any interesting questions at this time. I have Mr. Ross. I'm not sure if anybody has this back. That's great. Thank you. So the assignment and windows that we're using, I think you asked about daylighting. Was that part of the question? You asked about a specific specification. I was wondering, generally a manufacturer has a number of different lines of windows with different types of features, some more historical than others. Sure. Which ones were being proposed here? I actually have a question. Were you proposing single or double-hung? Double-hung in most places. Simonton, the series that we're using just in our most recent project that we did here in near Fountain Grove of a rebuild was the daylight max windows. This particular was single-hung, double-hung, and then, you know, I guess there are a number of specifications we use, like the woo-wee that doesn't apply. I'm assuming in this zone, this is not a wildland urban interface zone, right? It's in the urban core. So, yeah, daylight max windows is one series, but I would need a little bit more time to go through the entire catalog and reference the most historically significant ones. One last question on those windows. Is an applied muntin available for those windows? Can you say it one more time, please? Is an applied mullion or muntin available on those windows? I would have to look that up. Okay. Okay. I think I'll ask for Board Member to move the resolution before we go into any discussion about the project. Is any, we have one resolution. Is any Board Member willing to make a motion on the resolution? I just read the draft resolution. Yeah, the preamble paragraph, and if you like, I've never seen anyone not waive for the reading of the text. Okay. I'm making a resolution, resolution of the Cultural Heritage Board of the City of Santa Rosa, proving a landmark alteration permit for construction of a new approximately 1789 square foot detached single family dwelling and detached garage with a second story accessory dwelling unit in the West End Preservation District, located at 124 West 6th Street in the West End Preservation District, Assessor Parcel Number 010166044 and the file number LMA19-010 and further waive for reading of the... Does anyone second? I'll second. Okay. The resolution on the permit was moved by Board Member Fennell and seconded by Board Member McHugh. Board Member DeBacher, any discussion? Any comment from you? Thank you, Chair. Purpose of discussion. Overall, the project, I think, is pretty good. It is trying to fit into the neighborhood, but it's not trying to exactly duplicate historical style. And it's close enough that... I'm looking for ways to make it easy to say yes. There's two issues with it as it stands today, and it's not to say that they can't be overcome. Traditionally, houses in that neighborhood, as you'll see on your drawing AP1, if we could get that up on the screen. And therefore, when you have a full span roof on it, it doesn't kind of loom quite as large as this one does. In the context of the neighborhood, when I drove through again, this is going to seem like a pretty large house in the context of the neighborhood. There's ways to break that up, but they add to the expense, and I'm not inclined to say that that's something we need to do here. It's generally trying to play nice with the neighborhood. I do appreciate the addition of the bow window on the side. I think that's a little bit more sensitive to that street view than the greenhouse window was. I would have liked to have seen it a lot bigger. Maybe you could work something out with that. That's not going to be a requirement. I think it would look a lot better if that was substantially larger. So the two real issues I have, that's not a significant one. The two real things that make it a little bit hard for a historic district is its general overall mass and the windows. We really are trying to keep consistent in historic districts. Vinyl windows along with some of their advantages and expense come with some downsides in durability. They're not also very good for the plan, that's not our thing here. The main thing for historic districts is that because vinyl isn't particularly strong material, the windows around tend to have to be quite heavy and reduce the amount of glass that you get in your window because the framing elements tend to be so big. One of the characteristics of the older neighborhoods is a finer window where the framing elements are small and the lights are broken out. We really like to see a window with a fiberglass or wood that has those finer framing elements and we'd love to see true divided lights. Those are also an additional expense. They're almost a deal killer for me but I'm not really inclined to go there. I think it's something we should discuss a little bit because generally, as we say, it's trying to play nice with the neighborhood and since it's kind of a standalone building on the edge of the neighborhood, I'm inclined to give it a buy particularly if we could maybe trade some of that extra mass for some window upgrades. Was there a question, was there a requirement to put the railing on the front porch? I think it looks nice. I think that's the limit of my comments. I really only have two apprehensions again. The overall mass of the building is a little large and I really would like to see a more historical effort, at least more of an effort for the historicism of the windows to try to be more like the neighborhood. That's it, thank you. If you could blow up those windows down in the lower left-hand corner, these are an example of the vinyl windows on another project and you can see they don't read that heavy. If they look like the ones in the lower left, I think you really are about there. That's rather uncharacteristically fine of a vinyl. It looks like those are more of a fiberglass window. Do you know what this was on your cutting-edge site? He's looking at some other examples. These came directly from the cutting-edge site of examples of the windows. He's pulling up windows that we can share with you. We'll try and get it to you now for an image if I'm able to bring it up on the computer for you to view for further discussion. If not, we can provide that afterwards, but I'd like to provide it now if I can. That'd be great. More of the traditional vinyl look is that bay window above it. You can see how those heavy frame elements are more than approaching two inches in width, for example, on some of those elements. That's a bit heavy. I think I'm going to give you guys a moment to do this search if you think it'll just take a moment, or we can continue with any other kind of comments or directions the board wants to go while that window question is being looked at. Yeah, we've found it, but we're going to figure out how to show you on the screen if we can, and then we'll continue with questions as well. Thank you, sir. Great. So we'll revisit that after we continue with any other comments. Board Member McHugh, any comments or discussion about the project? Okay. Board Member Venal, any questions or discussion? No, I just, I like what you've done since you've been back, and I like that you have listened to as many of the requests as we have put forward, and that I think it's always the most important thing in your neighbors stand up and support you and say, you know, we appreciate what you're doing and how you're doing it, and I apologize profusely for my lateness and not letting, getting the other gal, your neighbor, to be able to speak. But I do like the project. I have the same thing as Mark with Final Windows. You know, they do, I live in a historic home in a historic district, and the guy that had my house before me through Final Windows and before we became historic, and it's the bane of my existence, and I'm replacing them slowly but surely, and so I understand the expense, and I'm excited to see what you guys have to show, you know, with what these windows are going to look like. I do support your project, I want to support it, and I appreciate the care that you've given since coming back to us. I also like the project a lot. I liked it the last time it came around. I think that the change to the second-story window on the front is really a big improvement. It was obviously a point of emphasis the last time you were here, and it took some creativity with the floor plan and what the constraints were to come up with something that worked visually without radically re-envisioning that, and I think you did a great job with that. I like every change that you have made. I can't disagree with the preference for something other than vinyl with the windows, but I think under the circumstances, considering the examples, and we're about to find out maybe a little bit more, but considering the, you know, that you agree with that sentiment and that you have found some examples in the market of things that you think would work well, consistent with your plans would minimize that bulky appearance and, of course, the cost consideration. I certainly have no trouble making the findings that these plans are compatible with what we're going for, but I would encourage any decisions in that regard to minimize the bulk of them because that's an important part of the aesthetic, when I was going through the concept plans, the arrangement of the windows, the look of the windows, the ratios of the actual glazing to the other features of them were the aspect of the plans that even more than the massing was important to me, and all the changes are really thoughtful. So do we have, oh, here we go. Okay, you've put up some examples. Yes, this is a home in Glen Ellen that was just built for a fire rebuild, and I'll let more explanation happen. Maybe if you go to the other one too, you can see a side view of the house. This is a Cape Cod style home that we built in Glen Ellen for the lady in the blue shirt on the right, and we're actually building the same house, a very similar version of a Cape Cod next door for her, but if you look at that view on the left side, you can kind of, it's probably the cleanest view. You can see what the ratio is, and that is with a trance on windows. So there's framing in between, the two lower panes and then the upper ones. I did look up the details since Yost and we are able to do the mold vinyl windows, and so Simon does have the detail for that. If that is... Okay, and I bet I'm the one in this room that knows the least about mullions, so I just know that it's possible. Board Member Dabacher, any dialogue or comments you have? Please feel free. A little less enamored of what I'm seeing there than I am in your illustration. It's in the lower left corner under the vinyl window examples by CR Window. If you can make them look like that, I think we're going to be okay, and we could skip the mullions and montains. Okay, not a problem. You can keep those elements down to an inch and a quarter, no bigger than an inch and a quarter on the tops and sides. Okay. I think we could get there from here. We've sometimes asked for people to recess the window slightly into the wall so that it looks like the neighbors, because they used to have window screens and storms. We're not going to go there on this one, but we can keep them out at the surface. That kind of represents the fact that this is new construction, but I would like to see the lighter element of the framing that we can find in that corner. And I think we're okay to go. Okay. Any other thoughts? I'd like to say I'm completely in agreement about the windows that I would prefer, you know, woodclad windows. We did do some replacement windows when we remodeled, and they were woodclad, but to do the whole house, I got an estimate, and it was just prohibitively expensive because we're on such a tight budget because of being underinsured. I appreciate it. I agree with you. And we'll see if we can work something out. Let me put another option out there, is that the sides that matter the most are the street facing. So the front elevation and the one that faces what is its west matter the most. If you could spend, if fiberglass tends to be less expensive than clad wood, if you would consider, that helps you get down to that inch and a quarter more easily. There's tend to be an approximate somewhere between vinyl and wood. Anyways, that's kind of where we go. At this point, are we talking friendly amendments or anything like that? Certainly if you think that there is language that would need to go into the agreement, that you would propose then, or excuse me, to the resolution, then we could discuss whether there's interest in making a friendly amendment with regard to that language. If staff have any suggestions based on the tenor of the conversation about language that would accomplish the goal regarding windows, but also perhaps retain flexibility. The more options that the board would have to consider would be better to maximize the chances of us passing something that makes the process go forward. So any suggested language, we have the plans which are referenced in the resolution. I don't know if we would have language that would say the plans with a modification or subject to, and then some sort of description about what the board would be interested in with regard to some specificity on the windows. If you just give us just a few moments here, we'll see if we can come up with something. I could give you some language, if that's what you're looking for. Yeah, if you have it, we can... This would be a condition of the landmark agreement, and that would be that the windows on the north and west elevations have framing elements, primary framing elements and not to exceed one and a quarter inch, and that would allow choice of material. So I think I just want to get a little more clarification on our end, make sure that we don't... Is it your intention to hold it entirely to that requirement or give some leeway so that it's not... So that it's more of a consideration, try and do it, but if you cannot, then that's okay, or is it a shall? In the past, we frequently issued landmark decisions with conditions. There was a time in which, resolutions with conditions, well, there was a time in which we didn't have the conceptual review stage, and so the only element, the only way of getting the conditions in was to put conditionals on the resolution. So I'm proposing to do a condition which allows flexibility, they could choose whatever material they want, and they can go any size up to an inch and a quarter, but that would be the condition. So we have the draft resolution here, the second page containing the conditions to what would be the grants of the landmark alteration permit, and then the second one describing compliance with the plans, I suppose it could be language that's added to that, or it could be a new number three that would contain whatever language would meet the board's approval. We obviously need to discuss the language. Yes, it sounds like it'd be a new condition added to it. Perhaps number three or number eight, it hardly matters, right? Yeah, I don't think it matters. Or it could be a sub-condition of number two. That also is a good trick, okay. So I think we could have a discussion before asking for a friendly amendment based on what we've just heard, enough specificity there that there's interest. Okay. Just to clarify, would that condition apply to all the windows or just the north and west? That's correct, just all the windows on the north and west elevations. If you need the exception for the bay window, we could do that because that may not be able to be found in that. Okay. So we have interest from Board Member Tabacher for a new condition to the resolution to the permit that would require that those specified windows meet certain standards with regard to their framing. Board Member McHugh, do you have any feelings or want to have any discussion about that proposed language, which is not before us right now, but just as a concept matter? I have concern if it's an undue burden to do what is being suggested. If it is, then I would be opposed to it. But if it's not an undue burden, then I'm neutral on the thing. I support the project and would vote for it. So whether or not the condition exists. Board Member Fennell, any thoughts about? I would accept the condition as Mark has put forward. My preference would be to have the condition be less stringent. I would like there to be either some kind of informal process that wouldn't involve a public hearing that could make an exception based on circumstances that we might not be envisioning right now. Or that would have a standard that is lifted if the cost difference is above a certain delta. Because I think that I would be very comfortable making the findings and voting for the permit as it stands. And I am reluctant to choose not to make a vote that I'm comfortable with and vote on a different version than the one that the property owner has decided to present us with without any kind of inability to make the finding otherwise. But if the property owner is in agreement about the aesthetic and if it's of interest to the board that I'm willing to vote for language like that but I'd like to see it just a little bit more flexible. And I'll try to come up with some, as we said here, some kind of compromise position. Sure. And I believe the applicant, Charlotte, wants to give you a little more information. Please. Thank you. Well, the question is about the undue burden. If the windows are going to cost, say, $4,000 more than, or over more than $4,000 that we could be exempt or they could put a cap on how much we're required to spend for the additional, the additional condition of approval. The difficulty for me is I don't know enough about the pricing in the market. And it would be more like an obligation to use best efforts to find anything that would fit that kind of condition except that if you've done everything you can and you can't find something like that that is within a price range that's close to the price range that you're estimating for the whatever windows you would be able to do without this condition, then it would no longer be, you would only be obligated to do whatever is up to that standard. So you can see the difficulty here, though, because we're getting into quite a level of detail that depends on a lot of knowledge that we don't have before us. And that's why I'm trying to come up with other language in my head right now that would accomplish the same thing. Mr. Ross. Yeah. Isaac indicated that in order to find like a nexus for pricing, you really doesn't know how much it would cost. It would have to take some time to go through. So maybe we'll try and come up with some language, but maybe consider it rather than a shell to the best of their ability to provide the one and a quarter inch if you would accept that. But I'm not completely sure of the process of how you would accept that to your friendly amendment, but that's what the applicant has indicated if you don't want to come into a problem later on in that it's cost prohibitive at that point. Should you put such strict language on the amendment saying shell rather than consider? Consider is for the concept review. When we get to this stage, it shall generally. Just a reminder about the process as well. Generally, when we have a resolution on the board, there's a friendly amendment offered. It's either accepted or declined by the resolving party at which time it goes to a vote where we either pass it or we don't. And I'm fine with either outcome. But this would be whether we would include the friendly amendment in the measure. If it fails, we come back and look at if there's another version of it that could go forward. Okay. Then if we have language, then any board member would like to make a friendly amendment. We can go forward and consider it. So at this point, a friendly amendment was introduced. The maker of the motion can choose to accept that amendment. Accept the amendment. And the amendment was the language that board member debaucher described, which was the windows on the north and west facing elevation will include window framing elements no more than one and a quarter inch in thickness. That's what I have right now. And that was in fact introduced when that language was stated the first time? Yeah, those are my notes. Okay. And there was an exception to the bay window. That's correct. That was the friendly amendment that was put forward. So the applicant has indicated that they are okay with that friendly amendment and that if the cost becomes prohibitive, they are willing to come back before the board to present those windows. Just for the board to hear too. The $4,000 limit. By my count, there are 18 windows. That's an increase of only $200 per window. And it probably cannot be done for $4,000. Just so that we're all square. I don't know how the actual figures for your windows. I doubt whether that's a $225 upcharge. That sounds accurate. I would expect that the difference between a window, a double hung vinyl window and a premium Sirius double hung vinyl window would be somewhere between four and $600 per window. Okay. Okay. So the resolution is before us with the amendment made and if it were to be voted on and failed, then we would be free to make another motion for any other resolution. All right. Okay. Is there any other discussion before I ask for your votes on the resolution with the friendly amendment regarding the windows to the north and the west elevations with the exception of the bay window? Okay. Okay. The resolution was moved by Board Member Fennell, seconded by Board Member McHugh, and friendly amendment made by Board Member Debacher and accepted by the maker of the motion. Board members, we're voting with buttons today. Your votes, please. Okay. And the tally on the system is showing that there are three eyes and an abstention, the abstention being Board Member McHugh. Board Member McHugh, is that the way you intended to vote? I did it wrong. I don't want to abstain. I want to vote no. Okay. What's the optimal percent? I pushed the wrong button. I was there for a second. The machine is ready to try again. Okay. Let's re-vote that. Okay. That's annulity that we're re-voting on the resolution. And that fails with three eyes. Board Member McHugh voting no. And does any Board Member wanting to make a motion to approve the resolution in any form, including the draft form that's in the agenda, this would be without the friendly amendment. Or does any Board Member have any other comments or ideas? So the vote on the resolution with the friendly amendment regarding the windows did not pass. So now we don't have a resolution that's... So the code requires four affirmative votes to move a landmark alteration permit through... Yeah. So we need four affirmative votes. So since that motion failed, a Board Member can now introduce a new motion. And if a new motion is not introduced, then the item fails to pass or fails to get approved. So we could entertain a different friendly amendment or we could have a vote on the resolution. For instance, as drafted, I'll ask for any Board Member who wishes to make a motion to please do so. And I'll request a second. I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution originally... The draft resolution is originally proposed. Staff, would you prefer a full reading of the preamble paragraph? For clarity, that would be helpful, yes. A resolution of the Cultural Heritage Board of the City of Santa Rosa approving a landmark alteration permit for construction of a new approximately 1,789-square-foot detached single-family dwelling and a detached garage with a second-story accessory dwelling unit at the West End Preservation District, located at 124 West 6th Street in the West End Preservation District, Assessors' Parcel Number 010-166044, file number LMA-19010. And wait for the reading of the text. Do I have a second? I'll second. Okay, the resolution was made by Board Member McHugh and seconded by Board Member DeBacher. Board Members, any discussion? Okay, your votes, please. And do all Board Members see if they voted the way that's reflected up there? Okay. Then we'll take a re-vote on the same. Board Members, re-vote, please. And that passes with four ayes. Board Member Murphy being absent. And that concludes this item. Thank you very much. Congratulations. And we're going to move on to Item Number 7, giving it whatever time people need to get gathered. No rush. Which is Board Member reports. Board Members, any reports for the public, for the staff tonight? Nothing to report from me. Remember Fennel? Nothing. Remember DeBacher? Not in the last two weeks. Yeah. Nothing to report except would like to mention that we have had two departures from the Board. That is former Board Member Dishazo and former Vice-Chair Percer. They were appointed by Mayor Schwedhelm and Ernesto Alvarez. And there are now two vacancies for those council members to appoint members of the Cultural Heritage Board. And applications are open to anyone, any member of the public who is eligible and lives in city limits and who would be interested in serving the city and helping the Board do its business. So we encourage everybody who would be interested to apply and to speak to Board Members, to Council Members about what that might entail. And that's all I have to report except I would like to remind I didn't get an update since the last time, but I did send emails out a few weeks ago about compliance with those two state law requirements as well as the ethics training requirement and just want to remind everybody to make sure that they're current on all of that. Okay. We'll move to department reports, please. Thank you. I'm also going to mention the Cultural Heritage Board has two at-large positions and the city recently advertised to fill those positions. If anyone is interested in applying, there's more details at srcity.org forward slash boards. And that concludes department reports. Okay. And that concludes our business here and we will adjourn. The anticipate will be September 4th. We'll proceed by a joint meeting. I expect it to be proceeded by a joint meeting.