 Welcome to why in the morning the hashtag to use. If it's Tuesday, it's hashtag entrepreneurship Tuesday at Y254 channel is where you can find us across all of social media platform art. Michelle Ashira is where you can reach out to me across all my social media platforms. In this particular conversation, we look at the recycling, reusing and refurbishing of your electronics that have gotten out of use. It's a conversation you want to stick around, especially after knowing that our country Kenya generates an average of 3000 tons of waste, each air from computers, monitors, printers, fridge, mobile phones, batteries and e-waste and other electronic devices that you may know of. So most definitely lack of e-waste awareness and poor disposal system with superluting, the environment and other health issues. In studio, I am joined by Bonim Bithi, who is the general manager of We Center and CFSK. Thank you very much for creating time, Bonim. Thank you for having me. Did I say it right? Totally. All right. So, Bonim, starting us off. Yes, I wouldn't want to miss this. So, we celebrated the International Youth Day on 12th August. And we were fortunate enough to also host the youngest CFS Minister of ICT Innovation and Youth Affairs, Ms. Nadia Abdalla, right here on our virtual youth concert. You, on the other hand, you were awarded top 35 and 35 in technology, youth of the year in technology and veiled by his excellency the President Uhuru Kenya during the International Youth Day celebration, 2012 of August. Did you see that coming? No, I didn't expect it. But yes, it happened and it's very motivating to me as a person and also I believe it will be motivating to other people. It shows that whatever you do in your own small way, somebody somewhere will always recognize it. All right. How did you feel? How did it feel to be recognized for your work of putting into technology? It was, I would say it was exciting, but most importantly, it was quite motivating because, you know, we keep working, we keep pushing things hard, but not every time you get somebody to recognize you or be appreciated for your work. So it really is motivating not only for me, but also for the entire team at We Center for people to continue making sure that whatever we do, we're doing it and doing it very well. Congratulations again. Thank you very much. All right. If you're not the one who worked with top 35 and 35 in technology, who would you have dominated? Wow, interesting question. I have totally not thought about it. Yes. But of course, there are a lot of young people doing amazing things in a great tech, in things to do with creating. There are very many startups that are coming up. So I think in Kenya is one of those hubs in Africa where we have amazing things happening created by amazing innovators. And most of these innovators are young people. So if you look around most of the startups that are coming up, you find the startups that are being built by the youth, which is quite motivating. And I believe it would not only be motivating for the people actually doing those startups or doing those businesses, but also for other young people who also want to start their own businesses. So I think there are many young people doing amazing things out here. All right. So Boni, in our conversation today, we're looking at trading the e-waste. And I would like to find out what is e-waste and how harmful is it to environment? All right. So e-waste is, first is anything that is electrical or electronic that has either been overtaken by technology or has become obsolete, meaning your old monitors, mobile phones, TVs, all these things, when they reach the end of life or when you no longer use the cables, anything that is using battery or using power and has either been overtaken by technology or has become obsolete, qualifies to become electronic waste. It is very harmful. The reason why it is very harmful is that all electronics are made from metals, heavy metals. If you remember the periodic table that we used to do in high school, chemistry, and it was not easy. So 69 of those elements, they are found in electronic waste, not electronic waste in electronics. How many percent? 69 of them. And I think they should be about more than 200. So 69 of those heavy metals, including mercury, palladium, the others called germanium, uranium, lead, all those metals. So if those metals are not properly taken care of and they come into contact with your body, they bring very many complications, things to do with lowering your immunity, things to do with complications on your nervous system, cancer, a lot of them are causing cancer. So in fact, that's why you see there's a lot of cancer cases raising in Kenya and also in Africa. So you find all those metals, if you look at them, they have different illnesses that they will bring if they're not properly disposed. So ideally, electronic waste should be very well disposed and it should be done by professionals because it also requires sophisticated technology and equipment for safe disposal. Okay. So let's look at what is the role of WeCenter how to play in all this. So for WeCenter, ideally our mandate is to make sure that the environment is safe of environment, rather of e-waste. So we ensure that we collect electronic waste from anywhere we can, from homes, from government, from corporates, from schools and all institutions. Once it's collected, we take it through a rather very complex processing. We do separation because all those fractions, they are supposed to be treated separately. So you cannot just take the entire TV and start processing it. So it's properly separated. We take data in terms of tonnage to also know at the end of the month or at the end of the year how many kgs or how many tons we're able to do. So it goes through a very long process for it to be safely disposed. The other thing that we do is awareness. So we also create a lot of awareness around electronic waste. We've been doing a lot of awareness. So every year we do campaigns. We partner with different companies just to make sure that our Kenya citizens and also anyone who is in Kenya understands how you're supposed to safely take care of your e-waste. We've partnered recently with CARFO, the supermarkets. So all CARFO supermarkets have our e-waste collection bins. So if you go to any CARFO outlet, you find there's a bin that has been branded We Center and CARFO, where you're able to dispose your electronics if they've reached the end of life of they've been overtaken by technology. Also partnered with SafariCom. So that's around awareness. Of course, people know that some of the electronics have sensitive data, like if you bring your mobile phone or your laptop or your desktop. So you also do safe data destruction to ensure that your data is very well taken care of. So we do that for companies, for individuals, anybody who brings data carrying devices, we ensure that we do safe data destruction also. All right. How does the CFSK involved with We Center? So CFSK is Computers for Schools Kenya. So in fact, Computer for Schools Kenya is a founding organization of the We Center. We've been operating in ICT in education, supporting schools to bridge the digital divide, ensuring that they have high quality computers or laptops. We've been setting up computer labs all over the country. We've done over 400,000 computers everywhere in Kenya. We have eight regional offices in different counties also in Kenya. So we did so many computers and realized that we're also generating electronic waste and nobody was doing US recycling. So that's how now we evolved and started the We Center. So the We Center now purely deals with US recycling and CFSK on the other hand, supports schools. So we are still supporting e-learning like now during COVID. We still have students that we're supporting in getting affordable laptops. We are supporting parents on how to do home learning for the students. And we have different projects. So we still partner. CFSK is a nonprofit and the We Center is a social enterprise. So that's the connection and GM for both of them. Oh, nice. How long have you been the general manager for both We Center and CFSK? It should be about five to six years. Good. Okay, good. Five to six years. That's long enough for you to tell us the new products that come from e-waste. What are some of the new products that come from e-waste? So once you process e-waste, when you go to the recycling, so what you do, you get certain raw materials. So what you're doing is like extraction. So you find that with the electric equipment, there's plastics. So we're able to get the plastic. We partner with local plastic recyclers who take our plastic from the plastic that we get from the e-waste. They're able to come up with innovative products. There's plastic fence in Poles, companies that are doing that. Others are able to make events chairs. There is a company that is able to make diesel from that plastic lubricants. The other one is metal. Metal is melted to make new metal. Copper. Copper, of course, you know copper is valuable. So it's used to make jewelry and other things. Things like batteries. We also collect batteries. Batteries, we have a system whereby we're able to test the batteries that can be reused. So the ones that can be reused, we're making our own battery packs. So these battery packs can be used for solar home systems. So there's so much that you can do from the fractions that we get in electronic waste. The other bit is that there's also valuable metals that are found in electronic waste, like there's gold, there's silver, there's copper. Those ones are now properly recycled and they go back to the food chain or rather they go to the ecosystem to make new products. So instead of going to do mining, the traditional mining to get gold and to get silver and these other metals, you can actually mine them from electronic waste. And then now they return to make new products. Very interesting. So what happens at Wecent, apart from recycling, you guys are offering raw materials to different manufacturing industries on a different level of industry that is plastic if they want to do jewelry. Yes, yes. That's one of it. And unfortunately in Kenya we don't have e-west low, meaning the disposal rate is very low, but it has been growing because of the awareness that we've been creating, meaning we have to ship out certain fractions that we're not able to handle locally. Like now the extraction that I'm talking about, extraction of the precious metals and the others that are called rare raw materials. Those ones we have to ship to Europe. So we have partnered with companies in Europe who were able to do that extraction. So they extracted and then they are sold to the manufacturers. So it's a circular kind of way, economy. So you find everything that comes to the Wecent is properly recycled to form or to make new products and then whatever we cannot recycle locally is shipped to people who were able to do the extraction, they extract and then it's taken to the manufacturers to also make new equipment, even including the batteries. So even the batteries that we're not able to reuse, once we ship them back, the manufacturer is able to make new batteries from those batteries. So you find nothing will be discarded to the environment. We'll go back to the law, lack of having laws when it comes to matters on e-west and for now I would like to find out. So for anyone who wants to get into the recycling business, so what sort of skills does one need to have? If someone is watching this and do enough to be part of Wecent. What sort of skills are you guys looking for? I think if you want to start, I believe starting a business, what you need is passion. And when we were starting the Wecent, nobody had an e-west degree or environment degree. I can tell you that for sure. My degree is in law. And right now I have a lot of knowledge on e-west recycling and circular economy. So what someone needs is just to do the research. You need to study the trade very well to understand it. But where we are now, of course, we need people who have knowledge in terms of environment, environment issues, also matters to do with policy and also matters to do with technology. So those are some of the things that we would be looking at if we want someone to join the Wecent. But if you want to start the business, you don't need to know anything about e-west. But you just need to have the passion and then you go into research. You mentioned earlier that you have a background in law. How has that helped you as a managing director to Wecent and CFSK? Yes, law is a life scale. I think there are many lawyers out here who are not practicing law. But you find when we study law at the university, you study a lot of things. So don't just study the typical law that people know. There's so much that comes with law. So you find some of those things that we're able to study in law, they assist you in life. So even in business, and what I do also requires me to understand matters to do with law, legislation, policy. So it has really also assisted me. When you're having somebody who's advising you on legal matters, you know exactly what to look for. If you are getting into contracts, you know what to also look out for. So I can say it has really assisted me. What's the proper way to dispose of e-west? Considering weekends, we consume lots of electronics. When a new product comes into the market, we forget the old and onto the new. So what is the proper way to dispose of electronics? The first thing I would encourage people to do is to do segregation. It's something called segregation at source. So segregation at source means segregate your waste in your house. So don't just have one dustbin in your house whereby on Thursday somebody comes and collects your garbage, just collects everything. But if you look at what other countries are doing, there is segregation. You have different ways of segregating your waste. It says that if it is general waste, there are people who are dealing with general waste, they're collecting that. If it is food waste, there are people who are collecting food waste. If it is the plastic bottles, there is an organization that is collecting that. If it is e-waste, we centre is there to collect. So all you need to do is to ensure that you segregate your waste rather. And if you have e-waste, just reach out to we centre. If you go to a website, there's a simple form that you'll feel and say where you are. And we're able to capture your data and collect from even your house. You can deliver even your e-waste to the K4 supermarkets if you're going for shopping. You can go to SafariCom shops and take your also your e-waste there. And then once you have it, or you can also take it directly to our offices, we offer the instant bypass. And it will be properly disposed, will give you a certificate and information to show the processes that we undertook to ensure that your e-waste was properly disposed. All right. Is there a form of any payment am I supposed to pay if I feel that form from your website, which are going to give us the name of the website? And I call you guys, you guys come to my home. Is there any form of payment I'm supposed to make? For now, nobody is paying anybody will not pay you and you'll not pay us. As we progress and there's proper law, you'll find with proper law, you'll be expected, even without the law, you're expected to take care of your waste. But people think that now you're generating waste, but you need to be paid for generating the waste. So that's where the confusion is. But ideally, you're supposed to take care of your waste. We will not charge you to dispose, but it will get to a point where you'll be required to pay us. The normal way, we are garbage collectors. The normal way you pay your garbage collectors, you'll be paying us to do that. But for now, we'll be doing these services for free and we're even doing estate drives. We're moving to different estates in Nairobi on different weekends, camping there and people bringing their IOS for us to collect. Kenyans love inducement. Now, you have said clearly that no one is paying nobody. We love inducement. I give you my old laptop, my old phone. And I'm not getting anything, nothing. You've been responsible. Why country must you be paid to be a responsible citizen? This thing, if you dispose it carelessly, it will come back to you. If you have battery carrying equipment in your house and you don't dispose them, your children will start playing with them. What if I argue that I'm giving you actually raw materials to buy other new products which are going back to the market and you guys are making money out of it? It is a circular economy. We are all in the ecosystem. So you find what you're looking at is the issue of sustainability. Because you can imagine, if we start saying, okay, now from Monday, we sent out the pain, anybody who brings this number of cages of mobile phones, you then create another opportunity for crime. You find somebody can break into your house or break into offices, steal as many IT equipment, bring to the center. How will we be able to justify that this is genuine US disposal or this is stolen? So all we need to do is for people to be responsible. And in fact, that's why you see even with a new curriculum, they have introduced environment as a course from I think class one or even kindergarten. So that people grow knowing that you're supposed to take care of the environment. If you don't take care of the environment, it will not take care of you. So we have to be responsible. You don't have to be paid to be responsible. Absolutely. All right. Apart from the inclusive of the environment course in our curriculum, how does your team go around the mentality of inducements? Because we have Kenyans who most definitely think in that manner that I'm actually giving you raw materials to generate a new product. So how do you guys go around that mentality when creating awareness? So the most important bit is for people to understand where we're coming from or why the US needs to be disposed. If you understand that and you see the big picture, you're not expected to be paid for you to be able to dispose your US. So in creating awareness, people have to understand the dangers associated with the improper disposal. Because if the people buy US, they will come and buy your 10 laptops from your company. They will only go and salvage the parts that they require. The rest they will be thrown away to maybe Nairobi River or to the environment. And then you find downstream Nairobi River very big farms that have planted very good looking vegetables. You eat those vegetables you absorb heavy metals, you get cancer. So if you look at it from a point of responsibility and being conscious about the environment, it is more fulfilling than you just been paid to dispose your US. And everywhere in the world you find there has to be responsibility from the citizens when it comes to matters, waste management. And you find even other waste management companies, you actually pay them to manage your waste because it's a very expensive affair. It is not just going to buy the electronics and removing the raw materials. It is very expensive. And that's why you see even some of these things we have to ship to Euro for them to be properly extracted. If you go into improper extraction, it is very harmful to the environment and it is also very harmful to the people who are doing it. So it's a very sophisticated trade, although it also requires a lot of government intervention in terms of policy and also in terms of the law. We've looked at the proper way the consumer can dispose the e-waste. How can we reduce the e-waste as a consumer? Yeah, as a consumer, reducing is very easy. Like I'm seeing you have a tablet and a mobile phone. You don't need both. So you're also increasing chances of generating e-waste. I believe whatever the tablet can do, even the mobile phone can do. So even in offices, we are promoting a circular economy approach such that you don't need to have 10 printers in the office. You only need to have one big printer and it is connected. So reducing as a consumer, you first need to start reducing their number of gadgets, devices. Reduce your appetite for these devices. If you have a mobile phone that can perform multiple tasks, you don't need another one. You find people walking around with three phones, which you never understand why you have to use the level of status. Yes, unfortunately. So there's that bit. The other bit, of course, is buy long-lasting devices. So also go for quality. The other bit, manufacturers, they're also encouraged to make long-lasting equipment so that will reduce the amount of e-waste that will be generated. Otherwise, if you keep buying counterfeit goods, you find you can buy even two mobile phones or three in a year. But if you're buying good quality, you'll only buy one and you'll serve even for three to five years. All right. So let's say I stay in Rwisambu and a friend of mine is staying in Kareem. We can all stop by at the centre to drop an electronic device that we no longer use. Yes. It's as simple as that. It's very simple. All you need to do if you stay in Rwisambu, in fact, you can even make it easier for you. You can go to TRM. There's a K4 outlet. Go and take your old mobile phone there. If you have bulk equipment, go to the customer care, the K4. They will let you know how it will reach Rwisambu. If you're in Kareem, go to the hub. You can dispose the e-waste at the hub at the K4. You can also go to Galeria. In fact, Galeria will be spoiled for choice because it's a Faricom and there is K4. You can dispose in either of them. You can easily fill that form, even from your mobile phone, would capture your data and then we organise. But of course, we will not send a truck to Kareem to pick your one mobile phone. So you find we usually map out different people who have e-waste in different areas. Then when the vehicle moves, it collects from several locations. And then also anytime come to our offices of the Eastern Bipers, you see what we do and also dispose your e-waste there.