 Welcome to the non-profit show. We are so glad that you're here with us today. Today, our guest is Matt Nash joining us as the Executive Director of the BlackBod Giving Fund, and he's got a lot of really good things that he's going to share. Most importantly, engaging donors where they are now. Matt, thank you for joining us, and we will certainly ask you to share a little bit more about yourself in just a moment. But before we do that, we want to remind our viewers as well as our listeners across the globe who we are. Hello to you, Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Non-Profit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransome. You're a non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group and honored to serve alongside day in and day out for these awesome conversations. We wouldn't be where we are having these awesome conversations if it weren't for our amazing friends that allow us these opportunities to have the high-level dialogue. 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Again, today's guest, we are so fortunate to have Matt Nash with us, Executive Director of the BlackBod Giving Fund. Welcome to you, Matt. I thank you. Pleasure to be here looking forward to this. Well, thank you. Matt, you said something so interesting. I mean, pretty much everybody knows about BlackBod, but not everybody knows about the Giving Fund. And you said something really interesting. You're like, yeah, sometimes people will say, where did this check come from? They don't know about specifically the Giving Fund. So tell us a little bit about that and about yourself. Yeah, sure. Well, in the fact that it actually happens, probably once every two or three weeks, I get a call from a nonprofit that says, hey, I have this check for $1,000 and are you a scam? And it's like, no, no, no, we're the real deal. As long as you're a nonprofit, then you get the check from the BlackBod Giving Fund. It's real, you can cash it because it's got donors behind it that want to support the nonprofits. But the Giving Fund is a 501c3 sponsor of a donor advice fund. And the way we operate is we support really two key components of BlackBod's business, although we are, as I said, a separate charity in that part of the organization. The first part is workplace giving. So there's corporations all over America that set up capabilities for their employees to give and to volunteer and integrate matching donations with. And those donations come into the BlackBod Giving Fund with a recommendation about where they want those funds to go and our job is to get those funds to those nonprofits. And in 2022, we distributed $682 million to 140,000 charities around the world. And so it's a terrific experience to be a part of this and be a part of the global good that we're able to accomplish. Amazing. The other part of it is peer-to-peer fundraising. So there are campaigns that people set up that want to give to charities. That's through an organization of BlackBod has called Just Giving. And we handle all their disbursements in the United States for the peer-to-peer giving of that particular program. Fantastic. Well, I'm excited to learn from you and thank you for sharing a little bit about that. I can't imagine, Julia, right? Like getting that check and saying, is this for real? Is this legit? And to know that it happens quite often, Matt, is really interesting. Well, let's talk about and jump right in to talk about attitudes of donors, what you're seeing, what your team is seeing. And so really, what are you seeing when it comes by way of the current attitudes of our current donors? Yeah, sure. Well, I think everybody knows that in general, the donor population is in decline over the last two decades. However, the dollars in giving are going up because it's tending to be focused more on the wealthier donors. But in the work that we do, we deal with that you're average everyday donor, right? They're employees of corporations and we get a chance to see sort of how they think and what they like to do. And there's really a couple of themes that have been coming out over the last four or five years that I think are really accentuated since the pandemic that we all somehow managed to live through, right? And one is they want to be more intentional. There's a more focus because of everything that happened during that period. I think a lot of people kind of reassess their lives and what was really important to them. And before, I think people used to be more what I'll call reactive. It's their friend that went on the run and said, hey, would you sponsor me for the run or the ride or whatever it is? And yep, you'll give $50 off your credit card. But now it's like, what's important to me? And why do I want to get involved? And when I do, I want to be more involved and understand more about the organizations that I'm supporting. And that's a key component that just sort of deep down within these individuals and creates both an opportunity and a challenge for nonprofits in terms of how they communicate. Because it's one level deeper than, okay, here's who we are, we want some funds. It's like, well, how do we match up with what you care about? And that creates an interesting communication opportunity for nonprofits. And I also, go ahead. I was just saying one of the things I've noticed, gosh, probably in the last eight to 10 years is this phrase, you vote with your dollars, right? And I know that this is intended for consumer behavior about what we purchase essentially is a vote and what we believe in. But I have to say that also goes with our charitable choices, right? Like we're voting with those missions, the impact, the beliefs that we have and how we want to see that either move forward or eradicated, right? And so I just couldn't help but to mention that when we talk about it, because I feel like that's a mentality and a current attitude. Absolutely, it's, you know, what's important to them. I even have that they vote with their time. Right. Because they want to participate, they want them to volunteer and get engaged with these donors, particularly through the workplace. We see a higher rate by three to one of people who volunteer as part of these corporate programs as opposed to give, because it's really the first introduction. It's their first opportunity to see what these nonprofits do. And often, particularly for the younger employees, it's the first opportunity for them to truly be an intentional philanthropist. I sometimes have a hard time seeing that word. Because in the past, they've all been, you know, they would help or they would do what their parents were doing or their friends in high school were doing. And now it's them. And they want to understand it more and get involved and get engaged. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, what about the contact, right? Like I feel like this has been an age old conversation because I remember 20 plus years ago when I started in the sector, right? Like sitting around the boardroom and hearing board members say, we send out too many communications to our donors. So are donors overly contacted by our organizations? I think the answer is that I want to probably yes and no, right? And I'm not trying to divert the question, it's just that the way we think about it is are nonprofits there where the donors are? And if you're there where the donors are, then you're not over communicating because you're hitting them at the right time. And there's nowadays, there's just such a myriad of places where they could be both physical and virtual that it's hard to really figure out, you know, where you want to be and how you want to communicate it. But the one thing that we know is they're all looking to understand the purpose, the outcomes, the impacts. What is the nonprofit accomplishing? And to resonate with that either through an email or beyond social media or, you know, show up in the events that people go to where they gather and where they have fun or where they do work together are all key things I think for nonprofits to think about in this age of how do we get through the, how do we break through? How do we get our message across? You know, Matt, I feel like we, I don't think the question is, are we contacting people too much? I think the better question is, what are we sending? Like, what are we communicating? And to your point, if we are just asking, you know, money, money, money, help us get through the day versus this is what we did, more of the impact focus, telling the stories and not, and drilling down, not just these, you know, things that go on for pages and pages and pages. I think the better direction is short snippets that are more impactful. And it's hard to do. It's super hard to do. It's easy to say. But I'm wondering if you're seeing, you know, folks that are more successful than others in terms of what we're pushing out? Yeah, it's a combination I think of telling the story, which is really what you're saying there, right? Is, you know, the impact is really the story. And people remember stories. I think that's pretty well known among all fundraisers we're talking to out there today. But in addition to that, it's like, are there other ways that the donors can get connected to the information? So for instance, we deal with, you know, there's these platforms out there. So they're all the donors now are coming through some sort of technology platform. And in those platforms, there's information about the nonprofits. And that's a really good starting point for nonprofits to be clear on the data that they're sharing because large organizations, all the big donor advice funds will use these tools. All the groups like BlackBuy Giving Fund and Manage Workplace Giving, all manage these platforms. They have information that the company's used to broadcast to their employees about, here's the nonprofits that are out there. Here's what's available to you. Here's what's available in your community. Here's what's available in your community and what the causes that we as an organization are supporting in this round of giving over the next three months. And it allows the donors to focus on, okay, here's some information about specific topics or specific geographic areas that I can get involved with and experiment with and learn more about because as I learn and I get involved, I get interested, I get inspiration, I get committed. Yeah, Julia, I think for me, it really depends on how we engage with the donor from the onset, right? Like knowing what was their original motivation to becoming a supporter and getting to know them through relationship building because all too often, and I'm curious, Matt, if you see this too, where it's like, we just send out shotgun approach communications. We're not segmenting, we're not really knowing what they want to be engaged with. That's what I'm seeing. And when I do my development assessments, right, I see that like, there's one email communication list and everybody gets everything. Right, I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a real disservice and that is, yeah, not a good way to go. Matt, you must be seeing this as well. Yeah, I think there's the old adage, you have the fish for the fish are, right? Right, Matt. And here's some things that we see. So a corporation is trying to improve their brand image in the communities that they work and they might have operations all over the country. And when there's a corporate social responsibility person who's trying to get their employees engaged with the nonprofit sector in these cities, then they look out for, hey, are there voluntary opportunities out there? Are there ways that we can connect and partner with a nonprofit to do real good in the community? And if a nonprofit can link into that, that's a very targeted way of communicating with donors. And when you add them all up today, there's 30 million American employees that are participating in these programs have access to them. And that's a very large target audience, but what's nice about it is it can be brought down to, what are the corporations that operate in our community that narrows it down? How do I connect with them? Well, first look in your databases and say, if you're in Charleston, South Carolina, or Blackboss there, if you have people from have emails of blackboss.com, they're all from the same company. And you can begin to learn about, which companies are operating and trying to do things to support you in those local cities, which gives you an opportunity to connect with them. Goes back to data. We've always said how sexy we think data is. It's like, there's a lot of information in donor databases and you're right, Matt. Like just looking at the email address, what is the final piece of that email address gives you a lot of information. Yeah, it's a place to start. It's a place to start simply. We find that you don't need to have a lot of data analytics to know that I'm getting money from Fidelity Charitable, or that I'm getting money from employees of corporation X, Y, or Z. You simply have to scan the database and see what's in there. And once you do that, then you could begin acting on that knowledge and say, okay, I've got these. Now let's communicate with them in maybe a different way because we know that they're part of something. And if they're part of something, let's talk to them about that and recognize it. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you to put up your catcher's mitt because this is like a wild pitch, but. I feel safe. You know, what do you see? I mean, as someone who's on the insider, you're at a high level and you are educated about this in a career-long capacity. What do you see that you like and that you think is like smart? I mean, I would imagine they're organizations that are doing it really well and like Jared and I see organizations that are not doing it well. Could you throw out a couple tips or ideas for folks? You don't have to name them necessarily, but just to say this seems to be really effective and as a consumer and as a leader in the sector, I respond to this. Yeah, yeah. I have an example. I can't say who the organization was, but what I like about this example is it's so simple, right? That they were looking to understand more about, in this case, donor-advised fund dollars and they started with their database. Okay, what's in the database? Who do we, and they're identified in there and at least enough of them, right? Some of them might be anonymous, but there's a lot of them in there. Once they did that, they said, okay, now, what do we know about these already people? And donor-advised fund donors in general, well, they're committed to you because they're already giving you money that they're supporting out of that fund. They're intentional about giving to you because they've probably done it over some period of time because we could see that. And then they began just speaking to them around we know you're a donor-advised fund donor. We are not going to invite you to use your donor-advised fund to come to our gala or our lottery and those kinds of things. And then what they would do is, when they had a specific campaign that they wanted to do to tap into resources that were already out there, then they sent the proactive message. We know you're a donor-advised fund donor. Here's what we're trying to accomplish. It's a special campaign. We would love for you to help us support that. And they increased their giving from the midterm donor by like 30% in one campaign. Oh, I love that. I love it. You know, and it doesn't seem like a heavy lift. It seems like you know your business because I don't want to use the four little word that I really want to say. You know your business and you just act on it, right? Like this is exactly what we need to do and saying we know this is who you are. We acknowledge that. We appreciate that. And here's what you're asking, you know what we're asking you to do. So perfect example. Yeah, not a heavy lift, but yet on the other hand it's maybe a different lift than the system that the nonprofit has to raise funds. And so you have to kind of step out of that and spend some time and energy trying to get more focused. But I remember the quote, my favorite quote from this interaction was, look, we did all this work to understand who they are and communicate with them better. And then we did what we know how to do best, inspire the donors to give to help us. Love it. Thank you for sharing that because that's perfect. And I think it's a mindset shift that we all need to be embracing. And the technology is really allowing us to do this more, but if we don't get our teams behind thinking in a new way, we're just gonna be like sending out the mother's day appeal type of thing. Technology is the tool, right? Technology is the tool. It's the intelligence that we bring as really good fundraisers to know how to appeal these individuals. Right, right. Before we let you go because our time has blown by and we said this in the green room chatter, we're like, oh man, this is gonna go by fast. You did warn me about that. I know and even, I have to say, even Jared and I have now doing this for four years, even we are shocked at how fast it goes every day. So that's, I guess, a good thing. Insights into the next gen donors and their behaviors. I want to kind of end with this today because Jared and I think about this a lot. We talk about this with our different guests. What are some of the things that you are seeing that we need to be aware of? To me, it's almost like when you focus on the younger donors, it's an amplification of what the trends are that you're seeing overall. So if you're seeing that they want to get in game, donors are wanting to engage, multiply that times two for the younger ones. If you see that they want to know more about you and the causes, multiply that times two because they're all over it and they're very, very passionate about it. And so to me, that's, if I were to walk away with just one thing I think about is the younger people amplify everything that you see as the trends going out today. That's a mic drop. I love it. I know, that's a good mic drop. I love that one because I would have not thought of it but I see it, you know, and you really just helped me to really see what's already in front of us. I mean, everybody's using a tool, their whizz is at the tools. Everybody's involved with peer to peer, they're doing a peer to peer. It's just, it all multiplies. Yeah, interesting. You know, I love that because I think we dismiss the next gen donor concept because we're like, well, they don't have any money and they're young and healthy and they're not dying and leaving it. And there's no bequest value here. And so I don't know, Jarrett, what you think, but it just seems like we dismiss it and we're like, yeah, that's the future and it should be good, but we don't cultivate it because it doesn't seem to have those immediate returns. Sometimes they can make up for that by having passion for your costs. Having passion, having friends, being able to galvanize groups of people. Yeah, there's a lot of power in the younger, and younger is relevant, right? Like it's just, yeah, there's- If I have to return, younger is sometimes 45. Well, thank you, Matt, I appreciate that. Well, you know, I think too, one of the things we talked a lot about is this transference of wealth that's occurring right now in our nation. And so these are males and females that are wage earners. They're the most educated people that we've had in the history of our nation. And so a lot of them are struggling with educational debt, but their prospects are good and they are inheriting money. And so this is a real discussion that we need to be having and be aware of. It's not just that, yeah, when they're in their 40s, they're gonna have more donor power. No, it's happening now and we dismiss it. And I also think, Matt, it's interesting, you gave us some insight into their corporate relationships and how that money, and you're seeing that day in and day out, that funding that can come through those employees. And so- Right, right, all right, the average employee that goes through the giving fund gives about $1,250 a year. Wow. I mean, it's not massive amounts, but it's real money and many of them are young and they're just learning and they'll be givers the rest of their lives and their careers. Love it. Love it. That is powerful. I did not know that stat, so that's a really powerful stat. Matt, this has been a phenomenal, really grateful to have you here as we refer to often in the hot seat, but really having the conversation with us. It's really timely and as we mentioned in the green room chatter, most, if not, well, not all, because we know that to be true, but most of our organizations are looking at a new fiscal year of the July one, so really good information here. Again, today's guest, Matt Nash joins us as the executive director from the BlackBod Giving Fund. Check them out, blackbodgivingfund.org. And if you get a check from them, don't question it. It's legit, so don't question it, absolutely. Matt, give us your number, your giving number that you started with, because I don't wanna leave that on the table. I mean, I guess I do wanna leave that on the table as we end our time with you, because that was an astonishing amount of money. In 2022, our collective donors, our employees and our corporations gave $682 million to 140,000 charities around the world. I mean, it's phenomenal, huge. And we are so thrilled that you would come on and share your knowledge and your time with us, because this is a really important conversation for all of our viewers and listeners to have. Again, BlackBod Giving Fund, super interesting conversation. And I know, as Jared said, you've been in the hot seat, you've been a gracious guest. We invite you back on when you have some more data to share, because we do say data is sexy on the nonprofit show. We're always looking for new information that's come down the pike so that we can get it to our viewers and listeners, because this is really the only thing that helps us move forward in so many ways so that we can achieve our mission and vision and values. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined by my nonprofit nerd. She can be yours too, but my nonprofit nerd, Jared R. Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, you can join us live at the Cultivate event that's being sponsored by Fundraising Academy at National University and fabulous San Diego, June 1st. We will also be broadcasting live there on June 2nd, because we do our Friday Ask and Answer episodes with Fundraising Academy. And so we're gonna stay over in San Diego and actually do that from the National University Campus for that second day. And so that's gonna be really an interesting thing and a different opportunity, Jared, because I think we're going to be asking questions of the Fundraising Academy folks that's more in line with what has been their trajectory in fundraising, like how did they manage their careers? How did they overcome disappointments or celebrate their successes? What has been their journey? And so it's gonna be a very interesting opportunity to look at some of these experts and see what they've done. And some of them are very young, starting out and some of them I'm gonna say are a little bit more seasoned. How about that, Jared? Good, yes, I think that's great. I'm looking forward to it. I will be there as well as presenting and really excited for the conversation. It's their inaugural one. So who doesn't wanna be in San Diego in June? Oh my gosh, I know. I can feel my hair frizzing up as we speak and my skin absorbing that. Having lived in the living in the desert, San Diego's the best. Hey, again, everybody, we wanna thank our presenting sponsors who are with us day in and day out. More than 800 episodes now moving into our fourth year. And those are these amazing folks that do not dictate our editorial calendar. And I wanna make that very clear. We do our show without their influence, if you will. And that's a really important thing. And those people include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech tuck. Again, these are the folks that join us day in and day out. Hey, this has been a great conversation. Jared came up with the name MASH. I think that's Matt Nash. That's gotta be your new, you know, moniker. I know. Hopefully I'm not the only one that's ever done that. But if so- Oh, you are. Yeah. Oh! Even better. I'll own it. Okay, we're gonna own that. I think- You should. Now I'll get my coffee, Matt. So next time I'm sure it won't happen. You need to start an e-newsletter and call it the MASH app. MASH app. I'm just saying that. I'll do that. Just saying. Cause that's a winning brand. Hey, Matt Nash, you've been just a delight to have on the non-profit show. And as we end every episode of the non-profit show, we like to leave everyone with this message. And that is to stay well, so you can do well. Thanks everybody. Have a great day. We'll see you here tomorrow.