 Dwi'n gweithio i gyd yn awr ymgyrch yn rwyddiad. Rwy'n gweithio i'r gweithio i ddiwethaf y ddyrach o drwpillau a'r ysgolodau dylai'r rhaid o'r llai'r lleiol yn ei wneud. Felly rhaid iddyn ni'n ddannu bod eich ddweud yn teimlo. Felly rhaid i'r llai'r ddweud yn rhaid i'r rhaid i'r ddweud. Pryddo'r gerddol yn y gweddill yn y cerddau i'r nhw ac Cymru, ar gyfer y cyfanol ac i'r sgolodau i'r sgolodau Ac mae'r eich edrych yn ddisgwyl iawn. The results of the survey, and then there's some time at the end as well for some Q&A. Also this is just some lightweight research that I've done. I suppose I could take a quick take here. How many is senior management or a agency owner? Great. So if you've got points that you want to raise during the session, feel free. Dwi'n golygu, oedd yn ystafell ar gweithio'n gwahau. Fe ddoch chi i'r wych yn y cas yng Nghymru yn digwydd y maen nhw. Rwy'n credu'n gweithio'n gweithio. Fe oedd yn ymddi, Ben Wilding. Rwy'n ddweud yn y aceddeithas yn Lundau. A oedd yn y Gweithgaf Llywodraeth Fflaun Dderwyl Camps. Rwy'n gweithwch yng Nghymru'n Gweithwyr Ilywodraeth, a'r Gweithwyr Ilywodraeth, ac'r Chwladol Rwy'n Gweithwyr Ilywodraeth. If you're ever around, give us a shout. We're always looking for good presenters and been involved with the Drupal world since about 2006, and the company's been going since late 2009, and this is pretty much what we do, and a little bit of the team structure and some of the types of work that we do. We've been dedicated to Drupal since 2009, and still today I would say probably 85-90% of our work is Drupal-orientated, but as we'll see in some of the slides and the results that we've got from other agencies, we're thinking about some of the same things other agencies are thinking about. So, why did I propose this session? I don't know what the other agency owners are thinking, but I've been pondering what's going on with Drupal-8. Is it actually being used by other agencies? What is that actual tangible uptake like? Lots of people have been tinkering, maybe doing some brochure wear type stuff, internal projects, et cetera, but is anyone out there actually paying for Drupal-8 builds? And if so, what kind of size of those projects are they? What's the pace of that uptake like? And that was my feelings, and it can be a lonely, difficult, interesting journey as a sole company director, and the Drupal world is a fantastic place because I know a lot of faces in the crowd now. We share a lot of information. We are very open, but I thought let's get something a bit more tangible and quantitative and share that around and see what people's thoughts are and give us a starting place to hopefully build and raise confidence that we're going in the right direction and things are going well. Our journey on Drupal-8 starts about three years or so ago. This is as a company as Cameron and Wilding. We started sending team members to Symphony Live London. I don't know if anyone's been getting involved with any of the symphony conferences and training, et cetera. So we had team members three years ago preparing for Drupal-8 and we were starting to get into the mindsets. We were doing Drupal-7 builds using OOP programming to get our minds in tune ready for Drupal-8 development. It's been a long journey, I think, from all sorts of perspectives for everyone, from us as a company preparing and getting ready and making sure our team and we were in the best position possible through to obviously the development and coding of Drupal-8 to the position we're at now. So that's the background to why I wanted to do this presentation and the survey. I will be taking you through a loose journey of what are the companies that responded? How do they look in terms of size, shape, geographic regions, et cetera? Moving into how are people selling it? What's the competition? What are the issues with selling Drupal-8 at the moment? Into what's the practicalities of actually working with Drupal-8 a little bit? And then a comparison of the size of projects that people are doing currently and the number of releases of Drupal-8 projects that people have already done. And this is just commercial projects I'm talking about, paid for by a client, by what I mean there, and then also what people are looking to release in terms of Drupal-8 projects in the coming six months. So maybe we'll see an uptick there, hopefully so. So I did actively, one of my lessons learned on this presentation was it's extremely difficult to do a very good survey with well thought out questions that people can't mix up and understand in different ways. And then also to get that data back through and then analyse in a useful and interesting format. So it's been an interesting journey. I proactively tried to make sure the results weren't going to end up being too North American and European centric. I failed, but I did try. So I've shared the link as some of you. How many participants actually took part in this that are sat in the room today? OK, so four or five or maybe six. So low numbers here. So in total now 44 people have taken part in it. 44 organisations. At the point of doing these slides it was 34, but then I was at the Acria partner days on Monday and they kindly sent the link around so we've got another 10 since then. If anyone wants the information after this then I'll happily share it with anyone that just passes me their email address and you can get the raw data. So yes, it's very Europe centric possibly because that's where we're based and I know a lot of company directors here. We do have a bit of a broader mix and then we've got some of the larger organisations have taken part with the 16.7% being global companies. The sizes and shapes of them by far the majority of companies out there that took part were in the six to 15 person size. Interesting that the 16 to 30, which is where my agency currently is, is the smallest number there. And there's quite a big leap up to the 51 to 100 person agencies. Those are by far the two largest sets of company sizes. 77.8% were saying that it was 75 to 100% of their focus was around Drupal development and Drupal projects. I think that's probably unsurprising as I'm directing a digital Drupal agencies, but it's a nice high percentage. Looking at the mix of what people are doing otherwise other Drupal in those agencies is a representation of the vast majority of the technologies that cropped up when we were asking what other technologies people were using. I think later on we've got the top five or six in order of the majority. I think Node.js was certainly standing out as way up there. And then Angular on the front end and some React and a number of others. A gentle on the commerce side. Ah, here we go. So yeah, Node.js. This is roughly in order of the number of responses we got around who was doing what. So Node is the most popular and reacts the least there. WordPress and Node were probably the two at the very top as to the mix of what Drupal agencies are doing in terms of work and delivery of tech projects. And looking at other services. So as you've seen from the range of sizes we've got some global organisations that are hundreds of people in size. A thousand plus all the way down to two or three people. This is the kind of full service stack. There are probably about another 10 or 20 different offerings that were cropping up that people were doing within their agencies. But this again roughly in order of what people were adding to as value ads and additional services and products that they were selling within their agencies. Next up I'll be talking about contribution and what your agency did towards Drupal 8. The last slide was about what contribution had been done. I suppose the interesting takeaway one on there was right up to the last couple of days there was zero for documentation. And as it's an issue that crops up later on in this question mark about how Drupal 8's uptake is going, it's an interesting one for us as agencies to consider. And yes there's various different types of contribution. I'm sure lots of people would prefer the coding and getting their hands dirty type. But it was only in the last couple of days I think four people or three people ended up saying that they'd done anything on documentation. So there's potentially work to be done there or there's definitely work to be done there and something for us to keep an eye out. So who are we coming up against when we're pitching and when we're competing? These four were the main ones. I didn't have it on the original list because it didn't spring to mind as I'd created it. But Episerval was the other major one which cropped up a lot in conversations at the Acria partner days on Monday. And I think is worthy of note just simply because so many people spoke about it. But here we've got Psychcore, Adobe Experience Manager, Ambraco and WordPress. Does this kind of reflect what people in the room are experienced? Like how many times you come up against, who comes up against WordPress on a regular basis? And Psychcore, Adobe Experience Manager, much less. That's funny because Adobe Experience Manager was the one that most people answered I think 66%. And Ambraco, a few people. So WordPress a lot and Psychcore a fair bit. I think Psychcore for us is probably the main one that crops up on a regular basis. But that's bizarre. I'm sure the stats was, Adobe was out at front. So some of the challenges when selling Drupal. So this question we've broken down into a couple of different types of answers. So there's the Drupal issues when trying to sell Drupal 8. And then there's the selling issues and it's kind of divided up when we were looking at it. So there's the module stuff. I know I'm kind of preaching to the choir here, but I was hoping to hold up a mirror to the community and the agencies and let us know what we need to be working on. Dev's not feeling confident. Lack of commerce stability. Low composure of availability. There's a nice quote from one of the comments from one of the people that answered. All in all, it's a pain in the ass to close deals with. That's not exactly confidence inducing. I did want to do this conversation and presentation to build up confidence. And I think hopefully I'll finish on a high note, but actually the results have ended up being somewhat neutral, which is an interesting place to be. So that's on the Drupal side of things. And then on the actual sales process and selling issues, these are the ones that are cropping up. Again, this is all just people's opinions. So you can agree or disagree with some of them, but hopefully some of them will reflect your experiences and you're recognising why they're up there. Clients just want the thing made and care less about the technology. I think that's often a key one for us, that a lot of Drupal companies are still pitching and talking a lot about Drupal. And that's the thing we should talk about here and that's why we're all here at Drupal Con. But it's not necessarily what potential or existing clients actually care about. They've got a problem and they want a solution for it. And if you happen to be really good at Drupal and Drupal is a good fit for that solving of that problem, that's where it's appropriate to use as a tool. So we're getting into the section now where we're kind of looking at what real world live commercial projects are out there that people have been building. Again, these are all in order. So professional services, oh sorry, this is sectors and industries. So with live commercial built paid for Drupal 8 projects that are live, these are the key sectors that have stood out the most for most people. So professional services, tech, education, media, NGOs, B2C and e-commerce I wasn't quite sure about but yeah, a lot of people tick that one. So I think it's kind of reflective of the next slide where we're looking at brochure where kind of simpler projects being number one. So these are the types of builds that are happening and already live is Drupal 8 projects. So brochureware, content rich, content heavy, web portals, blogs, it all kind of reflects where Drupal 8 is and where you can be confident in terms of building or at least up to this point in time in Drupal 8. So the next one was Drupal 8 builds up to this point, commercial ones that a client had paid for and Drupal 8 builds that will be released over the coming six months. The interesting thing was that there is overall a slight drop in the coming six months. Now I kind of anticipated that there would be an uptick because for me personally, we are seeing more opportunities. We've got three good Drupal 8 builds, three projects all kicking off now, interesting ones, good sizes, good budgets. So it feels like we've hit the bottom of that trough of trying to get there commercially with Drupal 8. There's a lot more confidence. There's still a long way to go in terms of modules, etc. Media, commerce, etc. But a big content rich website with a fair bit of going on, some systems integration, a chunky website, we're okay with that. We're very confident with Drupal 8 now and we're ready to go. But that wasn't reflected in the data. So one interesting thing, though, was that the number of organisations that feel that they'll be releasing one or two Drupal 8 websites in the coming six months was something like double the number that have released and worked on commercial Drupal 8 websites already. And I think that's reflective of the number of people that are out there that are now finally taking that step into their first commercial Drupal 8 website build. So in the room, who's already delivered a commercial Drupal 8 build? Yeah, that's worth a round of applause. And in the Cummings, who's currently working on, say, hold on, who's currently working on one or two projects in Drupal 8? And three to five. Five to ten. Okay, so that's where we're hitting a brick wall. So, yeah, and that's kind of reflective. There was... Sorry, okay. Yeah, I should have extended it over a longer period of time. Oh, there's a yanna at the back who is. Good man. 40 Drupal 8 projects on the go now. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, good, good. So that was average budget size for your web builds versus the average budget size for your previous Drupal 8 builds and the coming six months ones. Again, the interesting thing there, which is reflective of the previous piece, was there's a slight drop in the coming six month releases that people have got in the pipeline now and are already working on. But there is an uptick and an increase on the number of smaller, I think, 20 to 50k budgets. There was quite a substantial increase on from the previous period coming up to this point. So, I don't know if that, again, means that there's more companies that are just starting to actually win work in Drupal 8 and start to deliver projects in that. The other thing which is harder to tell as well is perhaps there's fewer projects on the go right now, but the projects are bigger because confidence levels have increased, which means naturally there'll be fewer releases in the coming six months, but those projects might be more substantial, which could actually, if you're the same as me, be better for agency owners because you've got the better planning and you've got greater visibility and also it's good for Drupal 8 because it's just an indicator of confidence levels being increased. But it's kind of hard to tell. It could be, sorry? There might be also that the current Drupal 8 grows in dragging and so forth or the amount of growth is higher because you can't just get them closed. Do you repeat what you said? It's probably worth it now. I'll put them round afterwards so everyone will know what I'm talking about. I'm getting good at just winging them now. Sorry, I know what you say. Yeah, that might be that there's a lot of hails that the hard to close with Drupal 8. Yeah, that could be true too. Can you repeat what he said in the recording? Sure, yeah. So the number of Drupal 8 projects on the go currently might have slightly longer tails because there's issues with where Drupal 8 currently is and you're waiting for a module you need to do some fixes etc. So that might be a reason why there's a higher number of projects on the go were reported to date now than in the coming six months. So, yeah. Ask the question, what actual issues and gotchas have you got in delivering these projects? There's quite a few bits of feedback so again I'll happily share these around with everyone. I don't want to go through technical stuff with you all now. But there's I don't know, we did our first couple of builds just over a year ago, a company website in the Drupal show and tell.com website for the event we run in London and there were some weird quirks in there so I thought this would be a handy one just to be able to share around the information for people so if you're kicking off those projects now you get a heads up like we've worked with some colleagues in London that we know very well such as Andy who's well into a substantial Drupal 8 project with a large charity over there and we've picked his brains about any kind of weird little quirks etc and I think the more we share those around the easier the project delivery is going to be and the happier our clients are going to be and the happier we are going to be so that's a helpful thing. Again it's going to depend agency by agency how well people have prepped the team the skill sets etc someone's talking about the delivery time being up by 25% and the complexity of it being surprised to them 25% that's far from insignificant that's really something for people to be aware of how you're approaching the estimating and how you're approaching delivering a Drupal 8 website that's coming up for you Modules, everyone's moaning about the pace of modules being ported over that's for us to handle This again roughly in order of the feedback that we were receiving from people in terms of the issues that were holding them back or were surprises as they were delivering projects again I think a lot of this is to do with how you've prepared to be ready to deliver on these projects but I think it's only fair that people all of us as a community can get these heads up and see what these issues are again there's a good dozen or so more of these things and some people have put in a good paragraph or two on detail of issues that they've faced so again happily share those round later Have you considered moving away from Drupal not really something we've considered but I thought I'd chuck in a nice controversial question in there and get people's views and take on it anyone want to jump ship and give up now we've come a bloody long way to do it so I wouldn't but yeah here's some of the thoughts out of 34 respondents on this question so probably about half of the questions were required and half weren't wasn't required so about 34 out of the 44 respondents just said and outright no whereas some of the others were not necessarily saying yes but they were watering down what they were doing they were diversifying they were moving into some other technologies so not moving away from it at all and some of this is perfectly sensible and fair you know it is overkill for a lot of projects so us as an agency we've tinkered with the idea of not necessarily saying goodbye to some of the lower value projects but maybe diving into a bit of WordPress or you know at the top end the mid-range and enterprise stuff that we do we're perfectly content with Drupal so we're not really looking at anything else but also you know we all have to be exploring the front end for example with Angular and React etc and the options that we've got there and we're finding on a lot of the bigger projects that we're now doing I don't know about yourselves Drupal is becoming a slightly smaller part of a bigger pie and the tech stack is shifting and changing so you just need to be conscious of that and aware of it and planning ahead so it doesn't take you by surprise so with that in mind how does what does Drupal need to do to stay relevant in the coming 24 months the last one was quite I mean the first one sorry community leadership was quite a stand out one for me particularly because of Dries's keynote on Tuesday which I thought hit the nail on the head it's exactly what we needed to be hearing I think the leadership there was fantastic and he set us up well there are issues there it has taken a long time but we're progressing and I don't know who was there for the keynote but 8.2 to be released on I think it was the 5th of October there's some really nice usability stuff there and I think we do have issues around UX and usability that's being worked on now and that comes up later on and it's nice to see that and really progressive we need to be conscious of the end user a lot more as we've spoken about and Dries talked about it started off by developers for developers and that needs to change or we just need to be conscious of the different types of users we have these days and that ties in greatly with the improved content editor experience the challenge again around modules and content being ported over there's work to be done there but we're all more than conscious of that how do you think agency directors can help? so how many of you are let's take the second one for example paid for contributions push cash in to support so it's a bit of a broad one there but I don't know how many of you contribute company time to your teams doing contribution great we'll start at two thirds that's awesome and on the marketing side of things what's the activities that people are doing there one person's example was case studies on D8 versus wordpress I know Jam for example did a lot of work last year on Drupal.com and earlier this year which is a great tool for marketing Drupal it kind of pitches itself and looks very different to Drupal.org we've got case studies on there we've also done case studies ourselves on Drupal.org too how many people are following up and actually creating collateral around that and putting it back into the Drupal community not just your company so case studies on Drupal.org or Drupal.com or kind of more widely shared areas no okay so that's something yeah yeah yes I think it's one of those challenging things because you're getting towards the end of that project you're thinking about your own marketing maybe but you know you're going to get busy with the next project and how do you add that in I think that's very important because I've been to a lot of Drupal business day summits at Drupal cons and the CXO days and always one of the big topics is how do we market Drupal better we know the best stories about Drupal we've solved the biggest problems for clients out there about Drupal and it might well be on our own company sites or we might be pitching that ourselves but actually it can be extremely powerful and useful if you're kind of sharing that more broadly out with the Drupal community and then people can leverage that message and you know use that weighting and the brands that you've won and the problems that you've solved and let people and clients know that there are existing solutions out there and Drupal definitely can be applied in that scenario here we go how important will D8 be in the next 12 months to you so this is my last slide so don't take the big message away just yet Drupal 8 how important is it to you I think it was about 75% said extremely important and it was very low towards the lower end there was one response where an agency said that they're moving away from Drupal there wasn't any more detail on that as to what they were moving to or whether that was due to them shutting down or God knows what reasons it may be but there was one but overall out of 44 responses the vast majority over around 75% were extremely focused on Drupal for the coming period and that's great for all of us and we need to be backing that up and supporting Drupal 8 by pitching it selling it and getting it used because it's a great bit of kit give me one sec I thought there was some more ah ok so the other nice thing just before I get to this slide there was a question around confidence levels and growth of your agencies and from the responses there I think there was maybe only one or two where they thought there'd be no growth and the vast majority somewhere around 50% were looking at 25% growth in the next year there were a couple of responses talking about 100% growth in the coming year so the takeaway there really is that there is confidence out there this survey went mostly to fully focus Drupal agencies and that's got to be a positive sign that everyone's looking at growth off the back of Drupal 8 essentially now so they've got around that so I think we can be confident we should be confident and we really need to support that drive forwards and each other the co-marketing stuff how do we get more of that done etc and just looking for ways to get it out there and that's why I popped this up really I know it ties in hopefully with what Dries was saying in his keynote it's been a long hard slog but it's not necessarily about the destination we've got to the release candidates model that we've now got with Drupal 8 if we hadn't had such a painful experience up to this point and that's already fantastic results from it with 8.2 and our ability to talk about innovation now I think we have to look at what we've got and where are the benefits there and how do we sell those in you won't be waiting four years five years for Drupal 9 the innovation will continually be happening and that will be released twice a year going for as long as Drupal 8 is going and into Drupal 9 there's huge opportunities there and I think we need to look at the structure of how we're working now how the Drupal community works and how we can leverage that really as benefits someone said on one of the responses that there's no unique selling points of Drupal to WordPress I don't think that's true we have to find those hone in on them get that message across well and I think the other thing here with Winston Churchill's quote which I've never heard before if you can't read it from where you are you will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks so yes there's problems out there and I don't want to talk about concept modules being ported over again how do we dive in get on with it, help port them over get that done there's no point in moaning about it we just need to keep progressing we have come a very long way and we're just at the cusp now I don't know what other people's confidence levels are and feelings are but we've got some really awesome Drupal 8 projects being signed off and kicking off right now I think in the coming six, nine months we're going to see some amazing projects going live and I think once we start to see more and more of those projects live it's only going to get better and better so yes best of luck with your Drupal 8 projects and if you do want the original data out of this so you can actually look at the graphs and all the work that went into it just ping me an email or fill in the survey ask me for the link if you want I think the more data we get in there the better as I said some of the results have been slightly tweaked since Monday because we've got another ten responses I really think the more input we get into it the better and then I'll happily maybe wait for a week or two whilst people are inputting into it and then share it with anyone that wants it but yeah, treat me, email me or something and I'll get you the survey results so thank you very much for listening it's maybe not a Q&A style presentation but if you do have any questions for me feel free or if anyone's got any comments about what I've been presenting on yeah please do use the microphones we get it recorded for the this is all fantastic thanks very much and one of the things that was mentioned on the presentation page on Drupal Khan was that you might discuss typical project budget sizes for typical Drupal 8 builds was that one of our missing slides or did that actually come out in your collation of the results yeah it's in there it's one of the graphs so the average range was I think the vast majority and this was three different sections was 75,000 US to 500,000 US did those figures actually reflect the type of the project that was being done like was it a social platform or was it a corporate website or was it an e-commerce site did you get that level of detail in your raw data or your analysis sadly not it's a strategic decision because I knew the types of people I'd be asking to fill us in would want to click a few buttons and give me about two minutes of their day but that would be good to see there's some more qualitative stuff in there but not exactly on that topic but you can see that the vast majority of builds that have been done have been you can see that by sector and type of build so you can kind of take from that and second guess what sort of sectors and builds those are your budget ranges so hopefully that will help answer that a bit it would be very curious to see the raw data if we could see that in confidence we could try to draw some conclusions that would help us answer that question for our clients and help with the adoption here in Europe thank you so as a comment you had mentioned that you were having trouble finding agencies to populate the survey a suggestion might be to go to the triple marketplace page and just find all the you can search by region so you can get a list of companies by region and then generate sample sizes from there in case you do your future study it might be an interesting thing to do as an annual piece and see how the market is growing not just necessarily focused on Drupal 8 but yeah thanks for the suggestion it's a good idea I mostly messaged all of the contacts for a while I've approached the Drupal Association and Megan helped out Jam helped a bit and then Acrea on Monday with the Acrea Partner Summit so that's kind of the route that it's gone out to yeah first comment is very well done the same thing happened to me in my station yesterday so I feel you're paying the question I had was around the sectors there's no mention of government in that sector I was just wondering if you had any data around government use yeah no that's helpful isn't it no if it wasn't on there I'll potentially actually because that wasn't the full list of sectors and I can't remember off the top of my head that's oh should I just come here can you do that a bit a couple of days out can you make it a bit bigger than you any other requests anyone is that two sugars how can I not buy a newer beer tonight Andy yeah there's a few sectors there let me quickly I don't know how I'm doing for time anyone got the okay great plenty of time so let's see if we can get some of those graphs that weren't playing nice before I know because we modeled them up ourselves so no we won't be able to show you particularly let's say here's the competition piece in terms of other CMSs that people were coming up against in pitches and tendering as I said what was the one that was missing Epi server came up a lot on Monday as another item another CMS that's that's often a challenge tell you what this is probably the most boring presentation you could watch so by all means if you want any of this just ask and I'll email it out to you and you can crunch the day to yourselves so this is the developed so far so three and five the biggest chunk in one and two so overall it's fairly low numbers and then I was just looking for the comparable that's budgets and this is the next six months so one to five dropped slightly and six to nine actually grows a fairly significant amount so that's a good thing but the percentage of one and two actually increases so there's more people out there I feel like they're dipping their toe in the water and trying it out and just seeing what Drupal 8 is actually like on live projects which is good we need to do more of that any other questions or queries or anything any people in the room happy to take part in the survey great yeah email me or grab a list at the end so yeah that was it thank you all very much for coming hopefully it was useful