 And it's undeniable. It's undeniable that when you see that you know that the animal doesn't want to die Yeah, it's on you have to be honestly man. It's like to think anything. Otherwise is delusional. Yeah, it's delusional. Yeah All right, here we are another episode of the Carb Strong cast that I'm here with an old friend of mine Abdullah Znab Abdullah is a YouTuber weightlifter Amateur cyclist turned ultra endurance athlete inspirational speaker all of those things good bloke So we've got Abdullah here the last time I seen you Abdullah was probably on my light up the world tour I think mm-hmm. You were the guy behind the camera Putting in the hard work holding that camera for hours on end. How did how's life treating you now? No, it's been great man since then. I mean how long ago was that? That would have to have been that was November 2018 Yeah, I just feel I don't know. I yeah, it's been good a lot. So yeah, it's been good But it just feels like we're here now. So yeah, well, let's talk a little bit about you your story So where are you from originally born in Australia? I'm born in Australia. Yeah, and your parents one from Palestine one from Jordan Yeah, awesome, man So you've got a bit of culture behind you and stuff like that So what always intrigues me about you bro is your mentality and I don't know where that comes from But you've got this mentality to push through some pain barriers But is there anything that happened in your childhood that gave you that sort of mental edge? I don't know. I think surely there would have been something I was training from a very young age Yeah, partially because I was just so insecure. Yeah, so that those years of insecurity and training I Developed the skills. I pushed so hard because I felt worthless Yeah, so that's where I really developed the skills to be disciplined and all for the wrong reasons But I still develop the skills to be able to push myself beyond what I thought was was capable So then I just it was more about to take those skills and then using them for different reasons Yeah, that's like you overshot the mark maybe because you felt insecure So then you started to push harder than more people I ever needed to to sort of feel satisfied or something like that Yeah Well, the problem is when you're like days is you never really can get satisfied Yeah, you're not really treating the cause of the problem. Yeah, right So it was good while it lasted but eventually you just feel you still feel worthless So you have to kind of work it out from there because it's almost like it's it is something that's inside of you that you really Can't scratch that it's because I've been on a few rides with you and there's something about you mate You just you've got some you've got an edge over everyone else and it's all mental It couldn't be like let's just put it this way You're an amateur cyclist and you suck the first time I met you you'd ridden your bike from Melbourne to Adelaide like it was Yeah, do you know what I don't know I think those formative years of Struggling and trying very hard It just develops that endurance within yourself. Yeah, you know, so That's was the invaluable skill when I came into insurance cycling because it was just like oh, how can you how do you keep going? And I was like I'm just kept on my whole life anyway, you know, if you have a problem you keep going for years It's the same concept. You're just applying it now physically in the cycling realm Yeah, so it felt very natural to me Oh, I'm thinking like I'll be thinking crazy stuff and I'll be like oh, I've been thinking crazy stuff my whole life Yep, I know the show just continues anyway. Yep, so I was it was easy for me to push I wouldn't get bogged down by the thoughts It wasn't so much as a physical superstar It's just I'd get to that point that everyone gets to where it's like quit You know, but there's no point in doing this and I'd be like well I've thought of quitting before yeah, and I didn't quit so I'll just continue anyway now I've met your mom. She's very supportive of everything you do Is there anything to do like your mother that's giving you something like she's giving you Push when you're younger and maybe that's influenced you as you got older. Yeah, definitely I mean my mom's supportive and she believes in me. Yeah, so It's just nice having someone who believes in you that much because no one really like you people You know your friends believe in you and stuff and but they can't really see the vision that you see It's clear as you see in your own mind, but for me the closest person to that is my mom Yeah, so I can see it clearly. She can see it pretty clearly and she just helps keep me inspired and Yeah, and you know reaffirms that what I think about myself already amazing. That's killer, bro And um You battled some depression when you're a bit younger as well. How'd you get over that? How did I get it was a long process? I mean I started training because I was in the standard state of like I'm not good enough. Let me try and be good enough. Yeah, so I did all that training and Fortunately, but unfortunately in the sense I achieved what I wanted to yeah, and then I still felt like shit Yeah, that kicked off the new cycle of like okay If I achieve what I set out to and still feel like shit something must be wrong here So then that sparked off some internal pursuit. Yeah, I was all right How can I feel good again? And it was mostly just changing my beliefs and perceptions about the world and getting getting to the root of it that way and trying to Understand how I'm good enough without any of these things Yeah, and trying to find a way to be happy and at peace long term without the external world Which for that was like like I feel pretty at peace now, but it's still an ongoing project That's a 10-year just to get to that as a 10-year thing where I can have some sort of stability day in day out where I'm like, oh, I'm starting to feel Good overall long term, but it's a path. You know what I mean? Yeah Yeah, because you said you you battled with insomnia and you couldn't sleep and you didn't know how you're gonna get out of it Yeah, well that was yeah, see that was invaluable for cycling long distances because it was like now You're not gonna sleep was like why I've done I did five five years like really hard No, very minimal sleep. So yeah, but that was good for me because it gave me so much extra time To reflect and think which I didn't have before and ultimately my thinking led me to that point of dissatisfaction my beliefs led me to that point of dissatisfaction So I had to go back in there and try and re-understand How I got to that point because inevitably I had a pretty good childhood Yeah, like I come from a family where the work in terms of just like sheer life circumstance was done before me Yeah in my mom's time and my mom's time So it's not like I'm born into sheer poverty or something some abject poverty force on me But still I felt dissatisfied So I was very certain that I had led myself to that point. Yep via my thoughts and my beliefs So that extra time at night gave me time to go back in there and try and risk try and re-understand how I got there Which was great. So you went through suffering before you actually put yourself through that physical suffering You went through that mental suffering. Yeah, it's actually physical suffering suffering or difficulty I don't really call it. I don't feel like it's suffering because it's something I choose to do Yeah, the loss of family member for no apparent cause or, you know sickness disease death that they're more Sufferings now in my own mind. I especially after doing cycling that choice is just difficult to me Difficult to me, but I still understood that no mat like the overarching thing is that all of that difficulty takes place in your mind Yeah, it's physically it shows up, but it's all digested interpreted and perceived within your mind So having worked on that so much is that it helped me negate a lot of that physical pain Yeah, how to push through Let's talk about So you developed as an amateur cyclist really just hopped on the bike You're more of a weightlifter, you know, you're putting in you're very disciplined for many many years And I don't know people understand that type of dedication You never really missed a training session. Yeah, like whether you'd have to get up at 3 a.m. Right, you do your weight training session Then you'd go on a mega ride and then you'd be counting your steps You'd be doing a ridiculous amount of steps through the city And you know, then you did your rice noodles and your tofu at night Yeah, like so you had this endurance mindset dedication Discipline through your weight training into your cycling and just into your normal life. Talk about that Well, I don't really find it to me for me to sit here and say that it's like the same amount of energy Apply to it's not the same anymore because now it's just habits a force of habits It's not hard for me to be disciplined because it's just like it's like drinking or pissing or taking it's routine Yeah, so but I still try and apply discipline in areas that aren't routine for me I don't have it just so I'm constantly working on it But like I said, it was just habit for me man. Yeah from just years Initially, there's a few phases where you have to really work hard at it But then it just becomes this like big snowball that just carries on and then to carry that into cycling was just like It's so it's so easy. So you didn't really give yourself a choice You're getting up at 3 a.m. And you're gonna do your training no matter what? Yeah, I yeah because I don't know man. There's just no option Yeah, I mean I know that if I want to do if I want to do something Then I'm willing to do what I need to do to do it, you know And I know that nothing feels worse than wanting to do something and be it's being in such conflict with yourself That you can't measure up your actions to what you want to do Like you feel absolutely worthless. You feel like, you know, I want to go train. You don't go train that only Further increases your disbelief in yourself You know that that gap between wanting to do something and not having to do it You just become like I'm I'm naughty. I can't even help myself So I made it my mission to make sure that they fully align all the time that if I want to train Then I'm training if I don't want to train I'm not going to go train But I'm not going to say I want to train and then not go train. That's crazy Because the pain for for not living up to your own standard is more than the pain of getting up at 3 a.m. And training it's like being it's like the pain of being a hypocrite too Knowing that there's knowing that you know the better option and you're not taking it is like it's like shackles on your head No one burdens more from that than yourself Anyone else doesn't burden as much as you so that's a big lesson for those who are having self-esteem problems Because they're not living up to what they believe they can well at the same time I used to think to my what have I done to make my to have self-esteem Yeah, you know like it's something that comes along with action Yeah, you know you develop more self-esteem more self-belief more confidence the more you actually do Yeah, you know, it's nice to think or To have these beliefs and understandings that kind of give you self-confidence just by sheer nature of life itself Which is cool, but that's another story But in terms of developing self-confidence A big part of it is just like do I say I'm going to do What I say I'm going to do do I actually do it And just repeating that cycle day in day out day in day out And then you're just programming yourself to think like yeah, I'm about what I say I'm about Yeah, that makes you just like put your shoulders back like yeah feels good because no one really knows but you Yeah, no one really knows what you're doing behind the scenes, but you but if you're failing yourself You know that and that's the hardest thing to face. Yeah, and that's the hardest That's the worst pain you can feel the burden of that. Yeah So I want to talk about The india pacific bike race now there's a lot that went Before that you were a youtuber you're you're you know putting a lot of your stuff online You're amazing a video videographer editor very artistic. He brought something to youtube that no one else was doing in the same way But you decided to get involved with the india pacific bike race and make this film Let's talk about how that come about And I want to talk about the journey that that film took you on and how it changed you All right, so how the film came about was I was slowly kind of not doing as much youtube anymore because it wasn't feeling right personally You know I was having my own internal conflicts there So I was kind of popping down on the youtube a bit But I had a friend who was doing youtube who was doing the race and he was like, hey You know this is bike race across the country or whatever and I was like You know like I've kind of done stuff like that before I'm ahead not as long But I piqued my interest and I thought he was like we should film We were talking about how we could film a great documentary Yeah, and I thought yeah, I'd love to do that and then he was like how about we do it And I was like, all right cool. We'll do it. So I took my girlfriend we went and Just started filming that race which The duration was about two weeks And it was much like an endurance event for us because we were in the car sleeping in the car Just for two weeks straight filming this thing. So it was a great joy. But a lot of stuff happened in that event Yeah, um that set off my trajectory for a different path for the better really Yeah, something really full on happened on that event and do you want to talk about? um Mike hall and The relationship you built up with him in that time Because I think um, he was one of the leading races and you were spending time filming each of the races and probably more time filming the those in front And there was a bit of a battle going on with the person in the lead and my call And can you just explain what happened? So we were initially going to follow four riders You know two that were kind of mid-pack to mid-pack. I would say mid-pack riders And then I was like I want to follow the top two Yeah, at least so our method was because it's across the country race And these gaps open up to you know, six seven a thousand kilometers between these two groups I said we'll follow the first two until they finish Yeah, and then go back and follow the other two. So we were following the first two riders This guy called michael and christoph alligard. They're supposedly when I came into the scene Well, I still consider them that they would be the best athletes in that genre of cycling So we were following them and they were having this full on battle and they were very close at the time I didn't realize how Monumental it was but they had never ever ridden against each other. Okay, so for them It was a very serious thing that this is the first time so called to best win the same country You're in the same right and how long is this race? So everyone that doesn't know because a lot of my Following is not going to know what how five and a half thousand kilometers. Wow. What's that in miles? That's like It's probably three thousand three thousand miles. Yeah, so it's no support Everything unsupported. No support. No drafting. You have to do everything yourself. Yeah, there's no clock It's his first person to the other side on the given route wins So they were going hard at it and it was all coming to this culmination pointy bit at the end and then just randomly it was actually It kind of that christoph kind of established that he was going to win Like I was like, okay, he's going to win now. He kind of They came together they met in the mountains after him being ahead for such a long period of time And then he kind of like established the fact that he was in front and the other guy kind of dropped back a little bit And it seemed like that's how it's going to play out So I was in woollen gong doing a set of dumbbell press and then I remember the exact moment my friend called me and he's like Uh, my cold. It just got hit by a car. He died. Oh my god, and I was just like through these dumbbells I was like, what are you talking? It was just one of those moments like you just least person you like it was the last thing I was expecting So he ended up getting hit by a car like 4 a.m. In the morning in the way to camber How long into the race was this? It's about 5,000 k in so cameras were probably like 450k from sydney. I think so it was very close to the end It was literally one day away from finishing. Wow one day away and the other guy was on his final day So he's coming into woollen gong, which is a couple hundred k from sydney, I think Christoph was on and they pull him over and they say look this other guy's died Oh my god, you know, so that's how it kind of unfolded which was it was a tragic event But it was of course. It was a tragic scenario to play out like that But it was just it was just crazy to be filming it and then this thing unfold And it was just crazy. I remember speaking to your mum at the time And she was very worried about you and um once we talked to you and you know We just wanted to get your perspective on how you felt and you know make sure everyone was okay But how did you really feel in that moment? I felt gutted man I just felt it's not like I was best mates with the dude But just following someone for just not you know just being in contact with someone and then suddenly they die Is traumatic, you know like So that that was very hard for me because I just felt so like what just just took place and It was just I was so tired emotionally too from being on the road for two weeks and having to deal with all of that But if anything it really inspired me to you know, finish the film and try and do justice to it It gave it a new perspective. Yeah, a new way like Do you feel like there was a little bit more pressure on you to really make something of this film in in Dedication to one of the riders who passed away. Yeah, it did feel like that But it did feel like that and it it seemed It seemed perfect to me because I thought like I'm the person to do this Do you know what I mean? I felt like I was the right person to be there filming it Have this whole scenario play out and then to carry the weight of that And to go out and deliver something that I believed in I thought did the whole thing justice. Yeah So it was perfect in my eyes and I've watched the film It was an amazing piece of work mate and something that you should be very proud of and I think you did do him You know justice and his life justice and now What people might not know is that was it the following year? The following year the following year You took upon yourself to actually Enter this insane race. Is it one of the hardest bike races on earth or is it up there? It's up there because I've done another one that I I would say was harder, but at the same time We'll talk about that. We'll talk about the one you've did following. Well, I've talked to a lot of people and it's just like What's hard? You know who defines what it's different for everyone. Yeah, it's subjective. It's so subjective But for you you hadn't done anything like that before The closest thing you'd done is probably the the melbourne to adelaide And you try to do that in two to three days or something like that. Which is which is hardcore. Yeah, but from going from that Stepping up to like cycling across the strait Australia's a large continent. You know, that's a very big step up It's not like you gradually built up to that but But what prepared you for that was filming it for sure. Yeah, so maybe that you sort of knew what to expect Yeah, well, I had a lot of reasons to do it Well, first of all the main reason to do is that that I just had a moment in the race where I thought to myself I've got to try this and then it's one of those fortunate situations where you have the thought and you're like man I can't escape now. Yeah, you know what I mean like you like do one more and then, you know I know what it feels like to want to do one more and not do it. Yeah, so I thought shit now I've had the thought I got to fulfill it So that was the initial and then I thought, you know, I've driven this whole thing And you know, I had I know every and I got a really good taste of what the top guys were doing and how they acted They're demeanor, you know, just their overall Personality traits, which I thought enabled them to be able to cover this distance So I was fascinated by that and I thought I want to put myself in the situation like that and see Who I am what I'm like and if I can do it. So that was originally the original inspiration and then So I filled out the paperwork And I was getting ready for I probably trained like 12 weeks at the time I thought 12 weeks of training was a lot of training, you know, but These these let's just give some people some perspective these ultra endurance cyclists have been doing this for their entire life as a Like well a large part of their career has been ultra endurance cycling their focus You're a weightlifter who just hops on a bike with his flip-flops on it and rides up north in summer trying to get like PRs This wasn't your entire focus. This was just another hobby for you. Yeah. Yeah, and that's I approached it like that too Yeah, because I was like no, I already lift weights. I don't need to be super disciplined with this It was more so just about exploring the limits and what I could do mentally I wanted to test out I wanted to see what I'm about mentally because I had thought of all these like Concepts and you know thought of myself as a little philosopher sitting in my mom's basement But I was like cool. Let me see if I'm actually legit and if these actually work Or otherwise, it's just torque. So that was really why I wanted to do it also So I just prepared for it But the thing was that four weeks before the race they I get to end up get an email from them saying that the race was Cancelled. Yeah, because the they were having a coroner's inquest about the death of Mike Yeah, but there was still a bunch of people rocking up and I was like dude Even if no one rocked up, I still would have gone and done it myself Yeah, so eventually we just pulled up to the start line in March and it began So you went ahead with the race even though they officially cancelled it. Yeah 100 so you followed the exact race Yeah, well the whole thing stands the same because official or not official. It's really the same thing It's just whether or not it's official in your own mind So, you know, it's still like 50 or 60 people rock up to the effort to that. There's still the route. There's still the GPS There's still, you know, the people watching There's just same rules apply really who knows if you feel like it's on it's on the personal thing How many other vegans were cycling at the time? Honestly, I forgot if there was any other vegans. Was there any? I don't know if there's any. You're the only one eating a plant-based diet throughout this race. Yeah, yeah, yeah Amazing. Yeah, I think so. I don't want to say that because I said that before and it turns out Well, they might well they might have I'm just not sure. You're not sure I'm not sure because if anyone's watching yes, Abdullah, you're training with a plant-based diet You've done weight training with a plant-based diet. You're not a small guy You've done these ultra endurance fleets on feets on a plant-based diet You eat a lot of noodles a lot of carbs talk about what you eat generally on that Generally on the race like that just generally and then generally I I'm pretty good, bro Yeah, I don't mind eating a bit of crap here and there. I don't even call it crap But I mean like what people would consider crap. Yeah, but I like I eat a lot of vegetables I eat a lot of vegetables. Yeah, like literally I can tell you what I had for dinner last night Yeah, like I had purple sweet potato for dinner last night. I had those corn vegan fillets. Yeah, I had some gravy I had peas And then after that I had some protein powder and some blueberries nice and some coconut I went to bed, you know, and then before that I'd probably just eat fruits and vegetables throughout the day And that's it. Yeah. Yeah, so you eat pretty bad You eat a pretty balanced diet and you don't restrict like you don't if you want a bit of oil here and there You don't restrict that. Yeah. Yeah, but predominantly you're eating a lot of fiber. You know very yeah, but For a race like that you're going to throw out a lot of your eating traits out the window, obviously But you're keeping it plant-based you're keeping it plant-based But you're not you're just trying to eat what you can to get the most amount of calories in on a race like that Yeah, you just eat trash really, you know, and sometimes I'm not saying it's hard to do it as a vegan diet But sometimes, you know, like you're just going to have to eat bread and skittles and power aids and drinks And that's fine though. Hot ships fry ships solar that too Because a lot of it also like at the same time you could you could argue and say oh, it's it's more convenient to Not be plant-based, but at the same time A large part of the mindset comes You would would would the mindset wouldn't be the same if you weren't plant-based So you could argue saying that the amount the negative effects to your mindset would affect your overall performance more than getting a tiny bit More energy from the sausage roll and feeling bad about it. You know, you're saying that you had a little bit more of a What would you call it? So like you had a bit of a disability on that a race because you had to pick You know the plant-based options in these like small service. Yeah, honestly, it doesn't take honestly It's just like I said, it's a holistic approach. So you have to take care of your body. You have to take care of your mind And they both require You know, you have to pay focus to both of those things and so eating obviously pays attention to your body You can see the sustenance and to but eating also Especially in a vegan sense in an ethical sense It has effects on your mind too. Yeah So to just completely abandon that and to suffer the effects of that mentally decrease your performance anyway Decrease your performance more than spending, you know, 10 extra minutes going. What can I eat here? That's not really you don't want to preach your ethics and then have that guilt why you're on a crazy race Like on a crazy race like that. You're tired. You're exhausted. You're like, I need food I'm gonna die here. Give me some food. Yeah, but then to on top of that to go I need something that's in line with my moral principles as well I've been on many rides with you and I remember just going through this the service stations going through these little like You know convenience stores like where's the vegan cereal? Where's the soya milk? Come on. Give me that jam. Where's the bread? Like just trying to find something looking at the back of packets like where's the vegan stuff like Well, the more you ride the more, you know kind of get around you kind of know what to go to I mean, I thought Australia. I didn't think Australia was hard to be vegan Yeah If anything I've traveled to other events now and then been like, well Like this is this is a lot harder But still you just make the best choice you can and a large part of it is just being in harmony Yeah, you know with yourself with your ethics with your body with all of that and so that's the main priority It's probably you I would I would honestly think I would do better Like if I just felt mentally sound then just having a tiny bit more energy Yeah, yeah, just a bit more energy, you know, some people have the most energy That they're like in crazy great shape having most energy, but they can't some people just can't bring them out of themselves And that's that's the mental component. So it's huge. Let's talk about the the end of Pacific Bike Race and your performance in it. So You come off really fast, dude. Like you just went for it. I've seen you abridging your gap like no No, you increase the gap really sit like I was like, he's gone too fast too soon But you really did hold that gap for a long time. How well at this Like so I had the introduction from the races before Yeah, and I thought to myself the year before and I thought to myself I don't I don't know what my limit is and I knew that if I tried to think I knew what my limit was was I would You know kind of sabotage myself by underpinning it to what it could be So I just kind of went in there Knowing that I could probably bring the best out. I can bring the best out of myself But I just went, okay This is what I think I can do and then I'm just going to add 30% on top of it Which was kind of roughly what the guys the year before did so I just copied them Which was a hard gap mentally to believe yourself in because it's like saying, okay, you're new to this sport I'm going to copy what the best in the world do And now you have to believe in yourself that you can do that. So I was like who gives like I'm going to do it anyway Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I was just like rich or just I just believed in that and just thought if I can just stick to that plan I'll be able to do it and that's what it was. How much were you sleeping on that race? I've probably sleeping. I've slept quite a bit now reflected maybe four hours, three hours You know, which is but you'd go maybe 20 hours 22 hours. Sometimes you'd have to go 27 hours Sleep three four hours depends on the weather and then you continue again. You continue again. You continue again You just repeat that cycle and where where are you sleeping? I would plan it to sleep in hotels like motels and stuff Just so I can get a proper rest have a shower, you know, kind of Renormalize yourself, you know, watch a bit of tv, you know talk on the phone charge stuff stuff like that I like it like that But inevitably you get to a point where the gaps between these motels are so far that you have to kind of start napping Yeah, because you just can't you can't stay after 10 days of being awake You know 20 22 hours at a time you can't do that anymore. Yeah, so you got to pull over on the side of the road Just have 20 minutes now wherever you can and just continue and keep going That's when it starts to get fun though when you start to feel like you know, like a wild animal Just pulling up sleeping. You're used to being in uncomfortable situations like and you so you do have that edge Like when you when you're cycling sometimes you don't wear cycling gear. You just wear whatever like, you know So, you know some crappy old hem where that's flopping off your head like riding a single speed up a hill Like you're in you're putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. Anyway, so to put yourself sleeping on the floor for a little while You don't really you got that mental edge over someone who's never put themselves in that discomfort Well, honestly, that's probably the most comfortable the floor becomes very comfortable once you've been out there Honestly, man, once you've been out there for 10 days and stuff and you're like barely with your eyes open sleeping on the floor It's like a it's like a king mattress. You don't know. Yeah, and then you just hop up and you're just like, oh, let's get it Like just jump. It's so exhilarating. You feel so I think that's the biggest draw man You feel so alive and you feel so connected to something bigger than yourself and it becomes really like that and that's what's so That fun for it. So you're having like a spiritual Evolution out there like an experience. Well, you got to think about think about all the most, you know Times of revelation and personal, you know development that you've had a lot of times They come from just silence and time will move from your You know your normal environment This is like saying, okay, you might spend 200 hours a year by yourself or something This is like we're going to spend 350 hours in like two and a half weeks We're going to do it to 350 hours and we're going to do it in two and a half weeks Strap in you're not going to talk and you're suffering because a lot of spiritual growth comes out of suffering Yeah, how to how to how to deal with suffering and mental tricks to deal with suffering and being away from the paint Like focusing away from the physical and that's all what meditation is, isn't it? You really the only way for you to physically do a race like that Is is just to be 100 present. You know and you can get away with that for a long time Not get away with that but that can carry you through having lots of focus and being able to be present can carry you through a long time But eventually you reach The journey kind of asks for it. You reach these points where it's like, all right And you have these moments where you have to go through something think about something It's like a threshold when you cross mine. It's like, all right We're going to teach you a lesson now you learn it and then you move on And if you can't if you can't if you can't get over that then you can't continue Yeah, there's like these doors you unlock to continue and continue and you have to just be really really ready to just Die in a way and let go of everything that you think you know about yourself And then just keep can keep continuing So that's really that's really the funnest bit for me because I got a lot of personal gain out of it. Yeah It's not that I enjoy it. It's not that. Oh my god. Yeah. Let me write across the country It's gonna be the best thing And I just know how much of a transformation it can be And then you come back to normal life. You're just like, oh, this is cool But if your film is actually called journey to the other side and it's like that's like, you know Philosophically could mean the other side of Australia or the other side of yourself. Yeah, and even for Mike. It was yeah The other side he passed away. Didn't he so well that was really what I meant by the title You know the other side in old realms a country spiritually and just in life in general journey to the other side And the transformation that you go through Just doing it You know, I don't I just want to make sure we cover this But you actually finished first You finished first In a ridiculous with a ridiculous like lead. Yeah, your first time you you wrote this this race Which is crazy man. That is we were all like cheering you on I was like, oh my god, like I said, I remember sending you a message But if you I was actually on tour doing my first, uh, I remember getting a message Prophecy tour So I was going through my own struggles and doing my own endurance type thing for the animals and the activism But I had tears in my eyes man. Like go I really felt it man. I was like, dude, he's really he's really making like Like a history here in within himself. Like this is crazy, man It felt like that man, and especially the comments. I remember that day you messaged me. I was in mournable I just remember crying. Do you know what I mean? Like yeah, who cries when they get a message Do you know, but when you're in a state like that, you're so receptive emotionally That dudes will send you a message and it's like, whoa. Yeah, like I'm about to go tear this day up Yeah, you know, like I'm ready. Yeah, you know, which is so I think that's so cool to be so To feel emotions and for them to be genuine, you know, not to just have to kind of force or think like, yeah I should be grateful. It's like to feel great. It's weird to be out there after like 100 hours Be in the middle of nowhere and be grateful and just think this is amazing You start saying things like why me? It's like, when do you normally say that? What was your Feelings cross crossing that finish line and you had your family there at the end and how did you feel? I don't really honestly I don't really feel anything when I cross the finish line because it's just the finish line Like I was really physically I was relieved because I was just a mess I had not I had nothing left when I rock pulled up. So I was just like I was dead especially once you It gets worse once the race is over anyway, but I knew that The end was never I was never focusing on the end Do you know what I mean? Because I just knew that it's just false. It's if anything it signifies the end of the journey There's no more journey, especially that journey that takes place, which is the whole point So I knew all the moments in between those two weeks for what I was after So It was cool man, but it wasn't like oh my god. I've been thinking about this moment. I can see it now I'm like now I'm going to finally allow myself to enjoy it now that it's over I knew that it was I knew that it was always going to be over And my only point was to enjoy it while it was happening because inevitably the finish comes once you start So I think that's what helped me So and it helped me after too because it wasn't I didn't suffer the emotional curve that most people suffer when it's like big event P finish and then bump down to nothing and you're just like oh am I Yeah, and I guess focusing on the finish line when you're halfway through is not a good idea. Is it? Yeah, it's so far away. It's so far away And you can you know Anyone can really go through the thought process of that and you just start peeling it back like okay I'm 500k so I've got four and a half thousand k though start doing the math You think that's gonna have the 200 hours like what am I going to do? Oh my god? And that's very you don't number one You're not even you're not really taking in what's happening to you currently do you know what I mean? And you're just trapped in this future that doesn't even it's not even a thing And it's very energy taxing and that becomes a problem when you start losing that much energy to thought If you just can't ride any more man. Yep. You don't want to have to waste that kind of energy How did your mum feel to have you back home? She was she was happy though But she was I think she was she was stressing like oh my god dudes are dying Which was cool because like as a as a kid you don't think you know You don't think it's a big deal But I can only imagine as a parent having someone die in a race and then your son being like yeah I'm gone for it and she knows what you like. She knows how you push yourself Yeah, you don't take no for an answer. Yeah, you don't give up. Yeah, so you'd push it You'd rather die than give up. Yeah, so your mum knows that about you. Well, I won't tell anyone that Yeah, you know, I think if I told people what I'm willing to do in that like it would scare them So yeah, she knows. Yeah, she knows what you're like. So she's kind of like she he's gonna do it Anyway, no matter what I say, let me try and Let me try and damage control what could possibly happen. Like try and be like, I do this Be safe. Do this, you know, like make sure you sleep and do this and Well, you surprised everyone you surprised everyone in the cycling community surprised everyone in the Well, I wouldn't say it was that much of it. We know what you you can do but it was just It's just an amazing feat and you won by so far that we're just wow But maybe people might have thought this was just a one-off thing But then you decided to do something even bigger Not was it the following year? Yeah, so the following year Following year I went to America to do what they call the Transamerica bike race, which is It's about it's 6,800 k's roughly I just say roughly because it makes me feel better because I know it's more when you're doing it But it's it's about 4,200 miles and and Almost tripled the elevation. So it's about 60,000 meters. What's elevation? Elevation is the amount of meters you go up vertically. So climbing on a bike and that makes it twice as hard Yeah, yeah, so it's totally it was like 20 or 5 or 27 America's like 60 60 to 70 Thousand up. It's like seven eight tons up there. Never so much. So climbing up a hill It makes one kilometer feel like a hundred kilometers. Yeah. Well, just for the sheer gravity It makes just speed a lot slower and I'm quite a lot bigger than someone who would be considered to be good at that But it was just more of a challenge for me, which I was excited to I was excited to get into it Yeah Yeah, so talk about the lead up to that the lead up to that is a year before I thought to myself, okay I kind of want that one. I did 12 weeks and I knew that 12 weeks is you can't consider 12 weeks training You know, so I was like cool. I've done 12 weeks. Let me see now if I can apply myself For a year So the hard approach for me wasn't just smashing the hammer on the nail It was like let me see if I can be consistent moderate Build up to this thing slowly over a year, which was nice because I allowed myself so much time I could relax more. I could you know, think about it more. So I prepared myself physically I prepared myself mentally for just with all the techniques I had learned from the last race and the experience of that And then rocked up to that start line and brought it all with me. Yeah, which was cool Yeah, and how many people Uh, we're in this race. How many people entered this race? I think a hundred a hundred a hundred and a lot of pro cyclists or a lot of Ex-pro cyclists really fit dudes ultra endurance athletes Yeah, dude, who you think are really good and have done a lot of experience And did you did you find yourself feeling like a little bit out of place there or do I belong here or yeah Well, I did before it comes to like, you know Like I said in the race you come to these points like you do one week to get to this one point And then you have the breakthrough. You know what I mean much like life in general So before the training I had all my little breakthroughs, you know You do six months get to one month you learn you have a breakthrough you get one lesson You go through another three months one month you get the lesson you keep going so The build up to the actual event like the last couple weeks It was the same thing and it was more like self-doubt was coming to a peak And I just remember coming out the shower the night before just like I remember dude Was andrewese jr. That boxer just beat and and antony joshua a big upset the night before and I was inspired off it Because I had a side of feelings Self-doubt because I'm looking around and looking at these guys. I'm thinking this guy's an ex pro cyclist He's his road and you know the jury at tally of this guy And but then I saw him win and I was like a synchronicity It's like an underdog. He was like and I was just like that's fucking me. Yeah, you know what I mean That's me, but it was cool because in that moment. I remember the night before All I really wanted man. Like I started gene myself up You know, I started going through my own my own You know frameworks of thought that would reestablish to me that I was the best ultra endurance cyclist on the planet So I'm going through all those thoughts in my head like, you know kind of not brainwashing Which is explaining to myself why you are the best. Yeah And I was doing that and then in combination with him winning inspiring me I just remember going to bed like praying for the opportunity For me to take responsibility of this vision. I had in myself So I was just saying like put me in the situation And I'll show you what I'm going to do. Yeah, so that's what I was waiting for and I got lots of those situations But but just being conscious of that you're in those situations. You're like, this is this is the this is the moment Yeah, I'm about to take responsibility for myself here and go next level and that was really cool Yeah, so I just do this. I just had to say, you know, but because it gets to a point where you actually Care too much and that's not really a good way to ride So you have to really ride like you're ready for it to be over any second Because that's really the truth of the situation. It can end any moment And if you're and if you get scared because you're going to lose Then you become hesitant and then once you become hesitant it becomes a downward spiral The only thing you really have to lose is not giving you best effort Yeah, so I had to come to terms with that. I was like, I'm ready to lose Now once I was ready to lose I was ready to put it all on the line. Then you know what I was put on the line I have nothing to lose. Yeah, so then once I was ready to put all on the line Then I'm just riding as if it's about to end any second. I'm not riding like, okay I've got 10 more days. I'm just riding like, okay, if I make it to the next pedal stroke Cool, I'll do that pedal stroke now and that that produces a really harsh pace beyond logic So you'll be with guys who are super fit and they'll be looking at you and then logically trying to process Your approach, but it's like you've gone beyond logic here, you know, and you're just like riding on the limit as if You know, it's going to end in two minutes, which is so which is so cool And you're hammering that set you're hammering that mindset into your mind like it's going to be over It's like I'm putting on the line and putting on the line and putting on the line and putting the line all the time And you just fly away, man I mean that's easy to say at the start But how do you hold that for like how long how long is this like how long is this race supposed to be? Yeah, like how long do people give themselves? It depends, man So I think competitively it goes from the record time up to like 20 21 days Yes, you know Even when you start when you start going up to those Days that time you're still doing 350 360 all the way up to 420 125 kilometers a day at the really top the top end So that for anyone who's 400 kilometers a day is about 16 hours on the bike Yeah With 16 hours on the bike if you're having a good day But when you combine that you're going up five six seven thousand almost Outman Everest hills, you know, and you're doing that day in day out. It becomes different So that's probably a really anyone, you know, 21 20 honestly if you just cross that country now knowing how difficult that is It's all impressive to me But that's what it's like holding the pace is a different You know, yeah, you've got to bring everything to be able to hold the pace Then it's not just holding that pace for that one day because like a lot of these Rides are like the biggest rides anyone would do just in their entire career just on one day But then you have to do that again the next day and a lot of people can't even sit at the office desk for 16 hours But you're sitting on a bike going up a hill in all different types of weather and nighttime And you know battling yourself and trying to eat enough and drink enough and all of this So like and to do that consistently. I don't know if anyone hasn't done anything similar It's pretty hard to wrap your head around what that takes Honestly, it's for me, you know, there's lots of levels to it There's you know the previous experience which you bring to that experience And that's much like saying that you've been training for This podcast your whole life, you know, you really bring all the experiences that you've had before Into your current experience and probably that's probably the right way to do it Just to learn from everything and bring it with you. So I had done that previously And doing that you learn things just about the nature of writing And like I said with the nature of writing as soon as you start As soon as you begin it ultimately it signifies the finish So you know that it's going to be over once you start and that really liberates any kind of Like you know anxiety or thoughts about it because it's like saying as soon as you're born You know, you're going to die. Yeah as soon as you start the ride, you know, it's going to finish as long as you continue So I knew I was going to continue. I ultimately knew was going to end So you embrace the moment like that Um and a large part of it is just starting So I learned to my first race that if you just put the shoes on and get out the door It works itself out Yeah, and that's a quick way to realize that it always ends You just have to give yourself yourself the opportunity to realize it So for me, it's just if you can just do one thing follow it through the whole way You give yourself that opportunity to realize that once you start it ends cool And then once you do that enough you go, okay, I'm sick of enjoying it only once it finishes Let me try and enjoy and make use of it while it's happening. So that's what you do Yeah, and then you couple that with the awareness of Human beings and their innate ability just to endure That's the only reason why we're all sitting here survivors is we're survivors That's what we do and we're the best at it We're you know, we're a bit good at it very good at it and you have that within yourself Couple that with the fact that you know Even crazy stuff like you can you know that You know millions of sperm make the journey one makes it. Yeah, and old sperm's not the same It's like, you know, it's not saying that you have a different sperm made it. It would be you would be different So you're the sperm that made it combined with all the skills And then you put that piece together and it becomes easy to keep going You have more reasons to keep going than you have not to keep going So it's just about coming to all those coming putting all those things together And then putting them through even like emotional detachment and just working on yourself like, you know The more times you just want to quit and keep going You realize I can want to quit and keep going. Yeah, that's pretty cool So you wanted to quit and then you got past that so the next time you want to quit I've already yeah, I can get what I want to yell. I don't yell. Yeah, you know You're like, whoa, so I can feel something and do something completely different. That's pretty cool Control you learn control and training in a really simplistic sense We'll give you that because you because your body doesn't want anything more than it wants to survive So you get your heart rate up to 180. It's like, yo, stop this So just doing that And you can be from the most rich family with nothing and have no reasons out there for you to learn this type of stuff But if you just go for a jog and get your heart rate up, you learn how to be in control of yourself That's what's so great about training, especially if you're not brought up in hard circumstance where life will teach you that anyway Yeah And then that's really the main thing and then just and then Just focusing on doing your best job with what you got And then you practice that brushing your teeth trying your back all that kind of stuff Let's talk about the actual race the trans am race Did you Hit the lead straight away again. Yeah, did you take the same take same approach? I'll give you an example About 1,000 kilometers into the first one. Yeah I saw this guy called Stefan. Yeah, that was the last time I saw him for the whole bike I remember I was going out to the longest strength in the world. Yeah, I turned around and saw him I never saw him again. Yeah, so I had 4,000 k's left not sending away anyone from the race This time the last time I saw the nearest guy Was in a gas station 6,000 with 6,500 k's left last guy I'd see from the race So you hit the lead after 500 k's or no after 350 k's It didn't mean it would have gone back and forth But I kind of knew it I don't want to sound like a mean guy But I already I knew in my heart like it was gonna unfold perfectly and when I saw the way everyone else was approaching it I thought This is not what it's about. So he probably dropped off thinking he might I don't know But he might have thought well, I can't hold this pace for the whole time I'm gonna have to drop off and then catch you back up. Maybe or something like that Yeah, well, they think okay. I can't hold this pace therefore that guy can't hold the pace Let me chill for a bit and he's gonna burn himself out. He's gonna burn himself out You know, he's gonna it's too quick and but all on honestly that one second of lapse in in terms of just You know your thoughts or not That just that one thought giving yourself that one thought and you're believing it for one second It's like in one night it becomes 70 k's in two nights. It's 250 k's by the end. It's a thousand k's Yeah, just from people believing that You know having that belief about you and then allowing themselves to believe it affecting their possibilities And then the gaps gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and then eventually they submit to it and say I can't close that man. That's crazy. So you held the lead for how many days? The whole time 16 days from the league and you finished first with a massive gap and What happened? What what time did you get? What was your time? I did about 16 days and I think it was like nine hours and Just caught 16 days 10 hours flat. Okay. And what was the time before? What was the record the record on a two-wheeled bike is 16 days? I think 23 hours and Almost 16 days 24 hours. So you you broke the record Yeah, you broke the so you have the world record on that. Yeah, I get that right world record Yeah, it's the record on that race. It's a record and how long has that race been running for? Quite a while man six something plus years. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot of people amazing feet That's an amazing feat. It was cool. So you bet you beat the previous Time by half a day. Yeah, and that's yeah, I had a lot of respect for that dude Honestly, my plan was to come in a day quicker. Yeah, but you know Things happen. Yeah, but that's honestly, that's the quickest you can do it Anyway, what you do it is what you do it in but I just remember getting there feeling like oh my god Man, imagine what that guy had to go through to do that time like respect so much respect man Even if all the stars align, which it's so hard just to do that man That's a go day in day out day in day out day in with all the adversity that comes up. No doubt. It's just like It's so hard. So the first time wasn't a fluke Yeah, you know, I wanted I wanted to cement that to myself even too You know, you know these things Australia wasn't a fluke You have that in you and then you proved it again that you have it in you on a bigger tougher race with more hills And you broke the record on that That trail and that's crazy man. So you've basically got something inside of you that you You can nurture and you basically like a Something in your life has made you perfect for ultra endurance races. Yeah. Well, honestly, I was fortunate to be Because I think that's that ability to endure is innate in everyone, but at the same time you can't diss, you know Sometimes, you know, like why do you do what you do man? A lot of times it's just environment Yeah, why does someone become a good afl player? Well, someone said let's go play afl Some people don't get that opportunity You know, and they never realize that they have that in them So I was always put in situations where I had to endure at least physically and mentally, you know You know, whether it be a work on the bike not sleeping So all these circumstances in my life presented themselves as opportunity for me to learn that skill, which was cool. So You know, I don't ever disregard that like it's lucky and it's however you want to say it lucky or divine whatever it is it's cool how I've always has been doing that and been given the opportunity to learn that but I think it's not just I think it's everyone I don't think I'm special beyond anyone I think the only thing that's special about what I've done is the fact that I've recognized it and then like you said nurtured it And just continued to develop that and become aware of it So how many other plant-based athletes were doing that race? Do you know? Well, the girl who actually Won out of the girls was was vegan. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, that's why I said two vegans Yeah, I don't want to say I didn't want to say like I don't know I that's why I said I don't know who was vegan in the first one because at the end She messaged me saying I'm vegan because I remember saying to someone like no I don't think there was and she was like no, she messaged me after saying no So the male winner and the female winner were both vegans. Wow, that's great. That's amazing. Yeah That's amazing. That needs a bigger platform to speak about because a lot of you know, the things I get from people Like, you know, you've been eating a pram based diet for a few years now. Come on. It's been a half a decade Well, I was in it and then I came out of it and then I came back into it. Yeah Yeah, but predominantly you've been eating a vegan diet. You've been living vegan So that especially like if let's just say you weren't vegan And then you went vegan just for this endurance race that proves it anyway Like come on 16 days just eating nothing but plant-based food. It just proves that you know What do you think people what is this misconception about having to have meat to recover and you know Eggs to recover and you have to have cheese and dairy to recover like Just conditioning. Yeah It's you know, it's it's conditioning and it's hard to let go of these beliefs that have just been so firmly ingrained into one From such a young age, you know, it takes it takes it I honestly got respect for anyone who's willing to go in there and then just be like I'm willing to give that up for the for the greater part of myself You know and the greater part and the greater connection to humanity So I think that's why it's hard to separate step away from but personally from speaking from my own experience From going on it and then coming off and then going back on it Is like I think you know the way I can only speak for myself But the way I did come off it is probably just lack of lack of education for myself In my in terms of my own understanding about it and being wrapped up in coming from a really physical standpoint about Oh, this is just a diet. Yeah, and it's kind of like saying oh, you're buddhist fizzy vegetarian Do you know what I'm saying or you're muslim because you you you pray but you don't do everything else That's kind of how I felt. That's what I was I was like, yeah And that's why it was so easy for me to give up because I was looking at it from a physical standpoint And I knew just from training that I could do all sorts of stuff to my physique And and be healthy. Yeah, because I thought healthy was just a purely physical thing And I approached it from a diet. So it's very easy for me to just swap out and I think that's Why it's easy for people not to take to it You know because they see it as such a diet Honestly, if it wasn't for you Being you know another Cool thing about the environment is that I had you there to kind of Remind me in a kindful compassionate non-judgmental way Say that that's not what it's about man. And then I had already been Just with my own work like I knew that morals and ethics and your mind That's all life was to me and I really wanted to sharpen that and be I didn't want anything more than just to be a good human So appealing to that nature of it. I was like You're like no, I can't live and that like we said that gap between what you say you are and what you do Once that gets big man It's like the chains on your neck get heavier and just living with that you're like looking over your shoulder like You know, but really you're watching yourself and it just becomes too much. You have no option Yeah, I think once I explained it to you like veganism not being a plant-based diet That's good for for performance and I started saying it's about justice man. It's about it's unfair to Subjugate and kill animals when you can easily reach for something else and then you started understanding it from the philosophical point of view Which is what veganism is. It's like being anti racism or something like that and you're like Wow, that makes some more sense to me now. And then, you know, you're more motivated by that Ethical belief and now you've got your conscience to Sort of motivate you to make the right choices when you're on these big rides and yeah, that was epic and also I'm Coming out with me and filming For my light up the world tour. Yeah. Yeah, so like you're behind the camera for everything I did on that tour And that was one of the most challenging tours. I've ever you know been on really a newer behind the camera and You're an ultra endurance athlete and How how we we were both really we got sick in the first week remember we both got a flu How was that for you talk about your experiences? Well, it was good It was you know, it was great training Just like just being out there training in terms of a lot of things training isn't trying to keep up my physical training Yeah, lifting trying to ride at the same time being up for 24 hours going It was training in terms just emotionally just even the best of us if you put someone That close to someone for two weeks in such an emotionally charged training situation You're gonna have to learn how to control yourself Yeah, because you can't just you can't let yourself pop the hook like that Especially when there's someone on the other end of those emotions. So it was good for that And then in terms of just my my understanding of veganism to be so close to it was also enlightening. Yeah, because It's different, you know, I went from hearing about it to You know, my own personal beliefs and aligning them and then to see it is like it's a different story It's different when you're sitting at your home and you're doing this by yourself and when you're out there close to it Um, it leaves an impact on your man Yeah, like in a in a really profound way that even now I still can feel it if I went back and Revisit those memories you can still feel the same feeling. Yeah, which doesn't really leave you Yeah, because you were bearing witness a lot and that that was the first time you'd been to a slaughterhouse to see animals go in and Uh, remember the pigs in italy? Uh, that that experience as well and like you were like, god, like they're in their own Shit and they're suffering and you're connecting with the animals and talk about bearing witness what that did to you Well, you haven't you know, when I think once when you're in that kind of bear witnessing situation it's like There's a part of you that's connected to that. Yeah, um, and You know, so there's a communication there. I don't know what it is You know like but there is a communication there between animal and human. Yeah Um, and that once once it communicates that in that at that level that bit inside of you once it's it wakes up And you can't switch that off. Yeah, you know, so I think that's why it's so powerful. Yeah, it becomes very real Yeah, and that's when it's like it becomes very it becomes very serious reality You know and it and you can feel it and it's once you start feeling like that it's like Whoa, yeah, you know the kind of stuff that makes like the air and the room feel like it's got sucked out of you Yeah, you know and Stuff like that can bring you to tears and trigger you emotionally and you don't really understand why at the time But it does. Yeah So it's so powerful remember being out there. We went to the slaughterhouse in vienna and you were there too And you were in the holding pens And we spent time with the pigs before they went in to be slaughtered and we went into the slaughterhouse to be on the kill floor And what what was your experience like in that holding pen? It was disturbing Yeah, you know, I mean it was disturbing You know, I'm sure if I went back now it would be more I think I can I can only assume that the more you do that like the connection just gets stronger and stronger and harder and harder But initially because I'd never been bad witnessed that much before that. It was very disturbing. Anyway, yeah You know, and it's just hard It's hard to hold on to old beliefs when you're in that situation because the reality in front of you is so different to Yeah, you know like so you're standing there and stuff thinking oh my god These animals getting killed. I see animals. This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah my bad guy Yeah I'm like and all those conceptions and beliefs just getting completely shattered and it's undeniable It's undeniable that when you see that you know that the animal doesn't want to die Yeah, it's you have to be honestly, man. It's like to think anything otherwise is delusional Yeah, it's delusional. Yeah for anyone who hasn't seen that video. You're actually in the holding pens and watching the slaughterhouse worker lead them in through this shoot to come out and be electrically stunned hung up and stabbed to death But what they were going through is um There was a big flame This flame was um burning their hair off or something like that. So so they're going into this They'd be hung up stabbed drained of their blood dumped in a in a big Hot boiling water to loosen their hand and they're like Flamethrowed to burn the rest off or something and you could see that flame coming through the oven. Yeah, it's very Honestly, man I think the conception of what it is and what it actually is is very like these pigs are getting walked in there And it's all green grass and it's like Nah, dude, it's like it looks like a scene out of horror movie flames going everywhere all sorts of torture devices Some you know, it's not like the dude coming in to pull the pigs out smiling like oh, yeah, baby Let me carry you to your death. No to getting dragged Wheeling the guy looks like he's lost all kind of Emotional any form of emotion he had within him has just now been suppressed by something else. Yep, and it's just like It's a horror movie. What it's a horror movie. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was like this was towards the end of the tour This was actually on my birthday. I remember getting up at 4 a.m And uh going to the slaughterhouse like this was on my birthday It was just a very emotional sad experience and uh to sit there with them for two hours before meeting them Watching them interact and then going in there to watch that like you basically experience something that not many vegans have experienced, you know and You know, a lot of people don't get to see it that close up and this slaughterhouse owner was priding himself on You know the high welfare standard of his pig slaughterhouse So this what we actually saw there was some of the highest standards in the world Like, you know quick stunning and it was just it was still a horror story. What are you just killings? How can not killing something not be a horror story? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, of course regardless of the method really So, um, yeah, you got a pretty much a taste of what it's like to to go on like a hectic tour And we slept On single beds next to each other Go into the same taller, you know, basically it was charged batteries get to sleep Yeah, it was good because it was probably the perfect combination Honestly, who knows how it would have worked out with anyone else. Yeah, so it's probably the perfect fit Yeah, and I was under a lot of stress and you know, it wasn't like all all smooth In reflection, honestly, it was pretty smooth. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know what I'm saying There's a few hiccups there. We lost the bank card But honestly, like you think of those hiccups and the way they were handled like the period between the incident happening and getting resolved is like It's not people man. Haven't you know what I mean get cut off at a red light They hold that all day Yeah Different countries lose your bank card stress haven't slept in two weeks and let go of it in 10 minutes It's like it's pretty good. No, it was great. It was good to have you there, man It was good support now. What people don't know is that I think it was the day after the slaughterhouse thing. I had a debate with a guy on lbc radio And he was sort of making a mockery of the pigs going. Oh, there are any pigs and people actually Criticized my conduct in that debate after that Crazy to remember you see. Yeah, you sat sat there and filmed that and they were going Oh, you're too aggressive. You know, you don't veganism disservice because I vehemently defended the animals and You know it had been a hard three weeks and we just bought witness at the slaughterhouse Like what do you think about like so so if let's just say you you weren't involved with all these bearing witness and seeing what's going on to the animals And then you saw my demeanor at demeanor. You might have thought oh, wow, he's a bit Adam, you know, you might have thought always a bit full on there But because you'd been on the tour with me and then saw my demeanor in the Interview, what did you think of it? You think oh, that was justified compared to what? Of course, it's just it's not it doesn't even get close to what it's of course, it's justified Yeah, you know for someone who's it's just so It's so irrational to think that That that that you have if you haven't born like that if you haven't born witness to it You don't really know what it's about and you're eating dead animals that you're going to completely understand What the guy's saying you know saying and think that oh, it's complete So I think it was completely justified man. It sounds harsh. I don't even know how it sounds harsh You know because that just becomes reality. Do you know what I mean? Like when you're out there, that's just reality That's how it is and to not say how it is. This would be a disjustice to you to The people suffering the animal suffering and yourself. Yeah, so It's what needs to be said man And all you have to do is just go back in history and just replace the scenario with whatever you want With human beings injustice and justice and someone standing up for injustice Even reflect on your own personal life and put yourself in the situation What are you going to do? Exactly, of course you would do the same thing that makes very It's very simple for me. I mean defending animals is very simple for me And I'm grateful that you got a chance to experience all that and you know You've actually done Everyone proud and you know, I know it was just a personal journey for you But you really like everyone was Standing around watching you on the on these cycling feats these endurance feats that you won by a large stretch And we were just like oh my god like this guys, you know, you're really done You know, you've really broken through so many stereotypes that you're a big vegan You know, you're a muscly vegan and you know, then you just hopped on a bike and you just a crazy ultra endurance athlete as well So you've done Really good things man, and I'm really proud of you and thanks so much for You know pushing through when you wanted to give up and you know being the only vegan on the first Maybe the only vegan on the first ride and you know, uh one of two vegans who won Well the guy who came back the next year and did he was also a vegan. Oh, wow And he did it was he he ended up setting the quickest time that year too. Epic. So it's it's becoming very Uh popular It's almost like a vegan's got a little bit extra to prove because yeah Well, it becomes it's becoming very popular. You get I get a lot of questions people ask him about diet Yeah, and this and Honestly, like the diet the diet obviously is a little part of riding like no, you know what I'm saying But what what it does show is that it you can be a vegan and do these things You can eat a plant based diet and do these things So why do we have to put animals in slaughterhouses so you can you know And the mental advantage of just being in full alignment with the best self Is the biggest advantage man. Do you know what I'm saying? It's the biggest advantage But sometimes people approach it thinking like okay if I eat broccoli and I eat that what's going to be like What's going to give me my muscles more like a gym? Yeah, don't even worry about that What's going to make you more of a lion as a human being? Yeah, better within yourself better within yourself And then you will be able to extract that performance out of yourself You know and that's really the ticket there with the veganism and just performance in all assets of life Assets of life really so being alive being fully aligned, you know, and that's the most comfortable state to be in It's the most energy effective state to be in because you're not there having these conversations with yourself Like should I do something different? Am I being a good guy? You're not acting in contradict a contradiction to your morals And you're feeding honestly you are feeding the best part of yourself and it grows And the more you nurture it by doing good things, you know, you're in alignment with and morally because you have that innate moral Intelligence within yourself anyway Yeah, you know, you don't have to go far reflect on much to know if you see someone in pain you get upset Yeah, you feel like you hurt your toe when you see someone stub your toe Yeah, you look at an animal sad you get sad empathy and you just nurture that and it grows in yourself and becomes something Life completely changes, which is cool Abdullah, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. What's next for you quickly before we finish up? So Um, at the end of the year, I'm going to 24 hour world championships in America. What's that? It's a the most just it's on the course. It's the most distance in 24 hours. Okay, so I'm trying to organize that now You know, you know, which is different for me because usually I just hop on a bike and just say who cares Let's go for it. Let's go for it But now I'm trying to give it a spawn things for it, which is a bit more organized a bit more organized, which is Which is different for me Um, and then after that I'll probably go to Europe next year and do across Europe And then I'll probably call it a day Wow. Yeah. Yeah after Europe, I've got a bit of a tire. Yeah, because there's other things I want to focus on, you know I mean, so I'll just once I do Europe. I'll just hang the bike up and I hang the bike up I'll probably go for 20 minute ride Excellent, mate. Thanks so much for coming on brother. I appreciate it, man. No worries, bro Okay That was sick that was a good podcast