 All right. Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Burns, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly online event or a webinar or a webcast or an online show. I'm sure there's other terms that people might use for this. The terminology is up for debate for some people. But whatever you want to call us, we are here live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. Central Time. If you are unable to watch our shows on Wednesday mornings, that's not a problem. We do record every week and post them to our website. And I'll show you that after we, at the end of today's show, I'll show you exactly where all of our archives are. So you can always go there and watch any of our shows. We put our recordings up there. If anybody does have a presentation of our presenters, we'll include that as well. And I do try and collect any links and URLs that are mentioned throughout a show. And so they're all collected there as well for everyone. We do a mixture of things here on Encompass Live, Book Reviews, many training sessions, interviews, live demos of software and different services. Basically anything that's library related, we are happy to have it on the show. We also have some sessions are done. Some weeks we do have Nebraska Library Commission staff doing presentations. And sometimes we bring in guest speakers. And that's what we have this morning. On the line with us is, excuse me, John Blyberg. He's in Connecticut. Good morning, John. Still morning for you. Still morning. Still for another hour. And he is at Darien Library in Darien, Connecticut. Assistant Director for Innovation and UX there specifically. And they've been doing a lot of really, really cool stuff, I guess, is just a good way to describe it. They're so packed, they've been working on it for years now. And there's new Darien Library TV as you see here. But John's gonna take us through some of the things that they've been doing and how it's going. So I'll just hand over to you, John, to take it away. Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm really excited to share a couple things today. So thank you all for attending and... And I'm very excited for this. So, Krista asked me about doing this. She kind of approached me asking him about an initiative called Darien Library TV that was launched about this time last year, maybe in April or May. But it was spring last year. And it was really the first step in a much broader web-sached digital strategy that we had just gotten to embark on. It was the beginning of the colonization of several years worth of work, maybe four or five years of the work. And also lessons that we learned when we launched OPEC 2, which was way back in 2008. And I can't believe how the time has flown. It's just, I can't believe it's 2016 already. But so here we are. And so what I suggested is that maybe we... I'd love to talk about Darien Library TV because it was a different project. We had a blast. And our users love it. And it's something kind of special to us. And even though it's very simple, it's very straightforward, it does represent a much larger movement in terms of where we are headed. So just to kind of zoom out a little bit, Google Earth style, I mentioned our long-term digital strategy. And so we'd not really know what that was for the longest time. After 2008, we had a sense of where we were, with respect to when we kind of breathed on those laurels for a year or so. And things started to change. The web landscape changed. Online subjects have changed. And people on the internet have changed. Since 2008. And so we kind of spent about four or five years even thinking about where we wanted to go next and sort of watching what was happening and just observing. Taking it about what things didn't quite right the first time around. Our patients were saying what our staff was saying. And then we wanted to think about sort of what, well, as a library, what is the purpose of a website? What do we do online? And how do we align these very core funding values that we hold as a public library with the way that we ourselves online and even what the purpose of online presence is as a library. Finally, we do feel like we have a tradition of setting the bar in terms of these sorts of things and like push our vendors. And we know that things, so we take a relationship with our vendors very seriously. But then when we count certain solutions, we know that they do a lot better. And I know that vendors have morals and essentially they will oftentimes do their minimum in a library place. It doesn't always be the most of them. So what we want to do is set the bar and say, no, you guys need to step up and start doing things in a way that makes sense. So we're going to do a demo a little bit here and hopefully catch you back about some of the things that are part of that. So when we're talking about digital strategy, we kind of step back again and say, these are the things that we want to be a part of this. And the very first thing was that we wanted to make all of this a user, whatever we're going to do, it's going to be from a user-centric design perspective. And I know that that's easy to pay lip service to. But we thought this is going to be a take of everything that we do. So our users, we search our users, we sat with them, we launched how they browse through our website. We watched them browse through regular websites, not just our website. We grabbed statistics where people were clicking, what they were looking at. We did an incredible amount of work. All our users learned Amanda Goodman put together an amazing report on what our users were doing and what they were doing and gave us a really pretty significant insight into where we needed to go. So we made some assumptions back in 2008 when we launched our website. Seems like, well, our users are going to love reading our blogs. They're going to love reading our content. And that's going to be our focus. And we're going to encourage them to have to write and write and write all this great content. And they did. We put a lot of great content over the years. But the tragedy of that was that when we looked at the statistics and we looked at the heat maps of where people were going on our website, none of it was being contained. And that was sad. So we said, that's something that we look at. And one of the ways that we want to address that and our library TV was sort of the first step in this was to say, okay, well, during library TV is content, right? That's library-generated content. We created that. It's wonderful stuff. It's important stuff. And we don't want to get lost in the overall experience of the library website proper, quote, unquote. So we came up with this idea of creating discrete experience silos for different types of content. And in during library TV's case, that was video content. So when we look at during library TV in just a few minutes, you'll see that that is all it is. It is just a portal for our videos, optimized in a way that people can get to what they need to get to or want to get to or they can browse it. And that's it. So the benefits of that are that you can create user interfaces that basically bind for the content that you're trying to create. We also decided that we're going to have zero tolerance for, quote, unquote, roughed. And for those of you who don't know what that is, sort of the junk that accumulates on your website. So all that junk in the sidebar, all those different links to places, library services, offerings, you know, everybody wants to have a little bit of real estate on the page. But what winds up happening is that it looked sort of like a Times Square billboard, but you just overwhelmed and your eyes glaze over and it becomes just basically background noise. And nobody's going to click on those things and the statistics bear, the numbers bear this out, that the more profit we have, the fewer click-throughs it should. And again, the key maps that we looked at confirmed this for us. So we basically decided that we're going to scale back and create this sort of very simple interface for people to get to where they're going or where they need to go as efficiently as possible. And then the other thing was that as we get into the rebate of SOPA and SOPA 3, which we'll start showing you in a few minutes, we really kind of were looking at sort of library processes and how over the years these cumbersome internal processes that we have things like adherence to mark or the way that we catalog and the way that items exist within our system pass that burden on users. And we've done that sort of as a matter of course because those are the data structures that we have on the back end. That's the way that catalogs have quote unquote worked. And so of course that's how the front end manifests itself in terms of lists of bibliographic records. That's true when you make a search, right? So we decided, well, that's not at all what the user wants. The user wants to find what they're looking for and they don't care what a bibliographic record is. And so we're going to significantly and rapidly change the way that search results work and that's one of the most exciting things about SOPA 3 and I'll get to that in a few minutes. And then the other thing is that web technologies have changed so quickly, so rapidly and it comes so far since 2008 and in eight years we've sort of gotten way behind April and we decided we would take a look at what was out there and not keeping up with it but basically we wanted to take advantage of some of the really great web technologies that are out there and I'll go over some of those sort of superficially because I don't want to get too much depth but just to make you aware of some of the things that we took into consideration. So first of all I know it's overwhelming to think about web technologies and it's a full time job just to keep up with what is actually out there but I think it's important to consider that web technology does evolve for a reason. It evolves because there is a need for it to evolve and it needs to reflect users' expectation and also user experience on the front end so in order to achieve a particular type of experience the technology driving the experience in the middle layer or in the back end needs to evolve and optimize to kind of support what that is but at the end of the day it's all about what the user sees on the screen how they interact so as time has passed tools have emerged to make those experiences easier to create and we want to evolve those technologies and we also acknowledge that that landscape became increasingly complex and one of the things that has sort of emerged in the last four years is the split between web development and DevOps and so one of the things that we had to do internally was to reorganize around that model and say alright well we're going to have the responsibility here between web development and DevOps and I'll talk about what each of those means in just a minute so web development this is sort of like this most simplest way to kind of explain it would be web development is front end this is what the user sees and some of the things that I'm going to be talking about in terms of what we did with both SAM library TV and with the new site are frameworks and we're all probably fairly familiar with CMSs or content management systems you've probably heard about Drupal and WordPress those are very, very common content management systems but the problem with them is that they are a complete application stack they don't allow for a lot of flexibility if you're going to do a website in Drupal and you are going to do a website the Drupal way for the life of that website if you want to create a website you're going to do it WordPress and there's very little wiggle room between the way CMS does it and say the very old school way of just creating a website using flat files which is totally untenable as well as it's own problems so what emerged in the interim are these web frameworks that have made sort of a compromise between the content management system and the flat file paradigm and that's sort of where we wound up setting our sites and in fact Darian Library TV is a really great example of how it grew of our decision making in fact I'm going to flip over to it now for Darian Library TV we used a framework called Jackal which falls under the MVC framework model so basically what that stands for is model view control but really basically what it means is that the model refers to database so if you have a database on the back end whether it's MySQL or Pogress or Microsoft SQL or whatever it is it doesn't matter the model piece in the MVC paradigm I guess means that it doesn't matter what kind of database you have on the back end the framework handles the connection to that database and you actually don't even need to learn how to write SQL code you just need to know how to use those models within your framework and then the controller is basically all of the code that you write to say to determine what gets sent to the view and the view is the template so it's basically a way of creating it separates the division of responsibility among your code and makes it a lot easier to create more flexible websites so I'm going to actually drop out of Keynote here for just a second and switch over to Pro and everybody see that is that yep looks good yep you switched over no problem great so I'm going to switch over to DarianLibraryTV and so as you can see this is a very very simple site if you go to DarianLibrary.TV this is the front page we're not trying to market any library programs we're trying to get somebody to read a book we're not trying to do anything what we have is the latest episode of a web series we started called the library and as you can see you can browse through and there's all these different categories and what we use for DarianLibraryTV is this framework called Jekyll and Jekyll is kind of interesting because it's very close to the flat file model on the spectrum between flat files and content management system it actually doesn't use any models because it is totally compiled once and then it's served up what's nice is that you can also use it with github so github pages is a free service that allows you to host websites on github for free which is nice so and we wanted to have DarianLibraryTV be a open source project that anybody could take in fact you want to go to github.com slash DarianLibrary TV you'll see all of the files that are there you can download this and take it and you can have your own TV set you just basically should back up to github and github pages will serve it for you and to take it another step further we also wanted to make it so that you could put all of your videos on YouTube and serve them off of YouTube so you literally need zero infrastructure in your library to take advantage of this software you just need to use YouTube and github and you're off and running and that's what this is so let me just switch back to you know real quick here it's a little tricky to get the right screen up shoot it keeps minimizing here we can look right here anyway I'm just going to skip around on my slide so basically you're not sharing the screen yet because you turned off the screen sharing oh okay so go back into the go to webinar under the screen sharing to show your slides again there it goes there you go yep all good assets challenge and opportunity slide that's what we see okay so with Darian Library we had three elements that kind of came together and first was the assets so we had a whole bunch of unsorted videos and they were unsorted they were on YouTube some of them were on video some of them were on our file server internal file servers and it was just sort of a mess and it was one of those things where you know somebody would come in and say well did you guys record that that lecture with so-and-so and we would have to go and dig through you know certain different silos of information to try and find it but we just never got our act together to create something that was going to work so our the first thing we did was to organize all of that and put it onto YouTube put it into playlists and the other thing is that we had just happened to have a person on staff who was a professional filmmaker and we thought well you know we want to we want to create this archive of content but we want to kind of make something special with it and do something to kind of create a sort of flagship opportunity for this and also take advantage of the skills of the professional filmmaker and then we also were sort of at the end of gathering information and gathering data about where we were with regards to our digital strategy and we thought this is a perfect opportunity to kind of prototype our concept of where we're headed and you know create one of those discrete silos of content so we we had the idea to do a web series called the library we called it the library that would highlight different aspects of library life and sort of document what it's like to run a library in the 21st century and then also create this website the silo for all of our other videos and also to create something that would sort of be a gift to people who worked in this library in this community 20, 30 years down the road so you know I will be probably long gone and a lot of people who are here will be long gone from this library but it will be a window into the past into this period of time when we when this library opened a new building and was struggling with how to provide service sort of this transitional period between the analog and digital worlds so that was sort of the concept behind that and it sort of all came together to create Darian Library TV and that led into the next project which was the new Darian Library.org and I think as I mentioned earlier we incorporated feedback that we received from both public and the staff but with a caveat with the asterisks on the feedback from staff so the feedback from staff was very specific type of feedback relating to public reactions and public interactions or interactions that they had with public and also staff workflow in terms of how do they look things up how do they get somebody to where they need to go and how do they put content in and then we also said well we're going to adhere strictly to the KISS principle which is keep it simple stupid and essentially that means minimalist design and not a lot of craft like I mentioned earlier and taking the things that were hard and making them easy checking out e-content which shouldn't be nearly as difficult as it is so we came up with things like the Custom Events Engine which I'll show you and a simplified menu system and SOPEC 3 SOPEC 3 is sort of a separate entity and that's what we wanted to do was to make the hard things easy we wanted to achieve one click to check out holds of e-content, we wanted to integrate that into the account pages and the thing that I think really defines this project is this works engine that we've developed that really they gathered bibliographic records at the work level presents them in a much more simplified search result it gets users to the content they need much more quickly so I'm going to pull that up quick so this is our current website and this basically hasn't changed a whole lot the SOPEC elements of this website as you can see are one of the one of the original elements and requirements that we had for SOPEC was that it integrated completely with the website and in this case this is integrated with Drupal and if you look up here you're not being sent off-site to catalog.pairinglibrary.org or to some other server where you get sort of this jarring experience because whatever catalog your other creates is not going to be the experience that your website has and you can see this looks dated it looks you know it was okay in its time but it's dated now this is the front page and this is all going to change but essentially what's important here is that this is sort of the design aesthetic that we've gone for in the new website and you can see we've sort of created a menu system that gets people where they want to go directly we don't believe and fly out menus secondary fly out menus which is why these menus are larger and this was a decision we made assuming making the assumption that over time our users will learn this menu system and learn where things are they'll be able to hover over just these primary links that kind of indicate where to go next so one of the things we're excited about is this events engine which on the back end I'll show you that in a minute as well but if we go back to a previous week here so basically you know we want people to be able to get through to where they're going and this events engine has really been designed specifically with users library users in mind so if they click through the event the event might have multiple sections it has built in registration it allows people to know this event's been closed but you can see how many people registered how many people are in the waitlist and so forth so John this isn't what's coming this is what's coming so it's not live yet as your site yet you guys are the first you guys are actually the very first people outside this library to see this ooh should we keep is it a secret I guess it's not a secret anymore it's not a secret talk about it all you want so let's see if we go in here we can so we can do things like manage event registrations really easily so in this particular case I use my kids engine here so you can take people you can drag and drop people in and move people around in the registration queue makes it very easy to do that so that sort of speaks to the way that we're trying to make things easier for our librarians to go back to the website then I mentioned my account piece and again some of this is just wire framing but we are integrating the events engine into the account page so when people either register or RSVP to an event they can see their upcoming events you can see the recent not real events we do not do hands on with scorpions but this will be this will be a place where they can see what their upcoming events are and they can subscribe to it in their iCal or Google Calendar or whatever and instead of sort of cluttering the front page of the website with library news we're actually going to put it here and the reason for that is that A, nobody reads it when it's on the front of the website and B, the my account page is the number one click on link on the website so we know that this is going to get a lot of views this is sort of like a way to kind of get news about the library website just different just things that are sort of like house cleaning type news, you know that you don't really want on your front page but you need to communicate to your users and then this part is pretty exciting I'm going to try and do a live demo so here is the way we have integrated multiple multiple sources of content first you can see right here you can actually do you can actually link accounts here so if I wanted to add on my wife I can put her in there or a child I can put those in there and you can actually switch between them if I click on James's account and this is not real data so so this is you can see and you can kind of keep track of the checkouts of other people in your family and this is really designed for families and also you can see your digital holds and digital checkouts I have something on hold I believe so items on hold I don't have anything on hold here I have a novel checked out I have after you checked out to my overdrive and it will show me there I can actually return this if I want to or I can place it on hold so what I'm going to do now actually is I'm going to go on my iPhone and pull up my 3M oops let's see if I can find it too many apps oh there it is cloud library so I'm going to pull up my cloud library and I'm going to try and just I'm just going to find some book to check out and it's loading of course 3M is actually going to bibliotech but what I want to show you is that we've sort of integrated multiple digital library vendors and I know that that's a challenge for a lot of libraries because and we'll show you how we're dealing with this in just a minute when we move to the catalog but you your ILS and your catalog starts to get cluttered with all of these types of digital items so here what I'm going to do is I'm going to place a hold on one book and I just did that and then I am going to borrow another book just randomly so I just did that in the app and if I refresh this page now click digital downloads you'll see we've checked that's the book I checked out I don't even know what that book is but you can see that it automatically updates and then also in the holds I placed a hold on Shantaram and I can go ahead and cancel that because I actually don't want it and it's gone so and we make use of the API there but the point is I guess that it ties all this together makes management of your entire borrowing activity all in one place obviously we're integrating fees and fines where we would like to integrate our envisionware system with it as well so that we can keep track of what you've got going on there and then sort of the to kind of cap this off we'll take a look at the catalog which is still very much a work in progress our launch date for this is June 1st so you'll see sort of please pardon the dust I guess is what they say so I'll just do a search for fates and theories hold that up and here's where we think we think this is where library vendors ought to be going and this is the direction that catalogs ought to be going in because if you were to search this and I'll do a side by side kind of comparison if we do fates and theories search on our current web page this is probably similar to the type of results you would get on your catalog right and as a user I'm looking at this I'm thinking what the hell what am I supposed to even click on here and I've got to go down here and if I want the book okay so I'll click through here but what about all this other stuff like you know it's just it's a mess right so what we've done is we've basically created this works engine that takes all of that and creates work level records and so you get just this right here which is fates and theories and then you can use the format that you want because as a user that's what we want we want to know what type of material can I get this in and how can I get this as quickly as possible I don't care about all of this none of our users care about all of this and why this is all there what they want is the content so if we kind of flip through we can see we've got a cataloging issue like there should only just be bibliotech and overdrive, bibliotech is 3M because they just bought 3M and they should be able to just check it out right here right here and so they click check out if you're logged in it will be checked out to your account and you can access it on your device if you want the audio CD you should just click the audio CD tab place a hold find it in the library and then same with e-audio so that's sort of the big feature that we're looking at again from a librarian point of view and I'll put a caveat because I am not a cataloger but I do watch a lot of cataloging sessions because of this show of course is this like something along the lines of Ferber is that where this concept isn't a similar concept of that it's a similar concept but what we have found is that it's partnered with all the different manifestations of it underneath there all gathered together in one place exactly and that's exactly what it is if that worked the way that it was supposed to work the problem is that that the quality of cataloging does not exist for us to hang our hat on that and say that's going to be successful every time but what we've had to do is it has been a battle for a lot of librarians to make it work to do what great concept but in practice yes exactly what we've done is we've taken that and we use OCLC information as a first pass to determine which works these should be kind of lumped in with and then we do another pass where we have our own sort of internal algorithm that looks at other bib records and you know bib records authors and does the matching from there and so between the two we've sort of it's been fairly successful here's an example of where we're still kind of tweaking tweaking the algorithm so you can see we've got actually three records here and for some reason we've got to figure out why that's the case and some of it is just dirty cataloging that we get from either OCLC or Baker and Taylor or wherever it comes from because we do do name matching and we look at sort of levitating distance between the two and you know these very sort of technical things but but so we're sort of we're still kind of refining that and we're hoping that we'll get a way to kind of make that result better but the other thing that we will be doing is sort of creating a workflow for our librarians on the back end to say you know what this and this actually belong up here with this and we're just going to make a very small notation in a 900 field somewhere and then when when we pass through on our nightly job it'll know alright this is actually the work this is the work that these bibliographic records ought to be associated with so that is where we are and that's sort of the direction that we're headed in questions? Oh great okay thanks John I didn't know if you were heading more to go No not really does it really slick I'm really liking that the mobile connection there too pulling out your phone and seeing the things happen right there into your account that's you know for years people have been saying mobile is well where many people are going for their main way of connecting to anything and I think yeah you've kind of nailed it there it's just making the connection we do have one question come in if anyone does have any questions go ahead and type into your go to web in our interface under questions I'll grab them and pass them on to John here someone has a question how will you be promoting events to non-users who may land on the website but never think to click on my account because they're not a card holder yet they're just someone from the community who has shown up there you have any special promotion ideas for that to getting more non-users figuring out how to use things on the website that's a really great question and so in in in fact the website has been designed around programming because that's you know well aside from the catalog elements adult and children's programming is the second most important piece of what we do I think after well I mean you could be even argue that it's the most important thing depending who you talk to but in terms of the website that's you know the website has been designed has been optimized around programming because you're either you're coming to the website to find out you know to find out what's in the catalog to check something out play something on hold check your stuff or you're coming to figure out what can I do with my kids today or what's going on at the library I wonder if there's something interesting going on and then sort of tertiary to that are all these other things like you know notary services passport services but so we are we don't have a front page yet this is all wireframe stuff and we're looking at how we can best float events you know upcoming events and events happening in the future how to do that yeah having it right there on the page the way it looks right now kind of bring your eye right to that and that goes along with that heat mapping of where people look and where things go that even if you're not a card holder right there the first thing you might see is what stuff is happening right and and decluttering I think is such a huge piece of that that you know so many library websites that I've looked at have you know there's so much contention for the front page that there's so much on there that everything gets lost including the events and and we're just not going to do that it's going to be that's what it's going to be like you know you've got up here I mean this is sort of the call out here the call to action is our catalog right and then below that is all events and then anything else can be sought after so that's that's sort of the approach we're taking we don't know if it's going to be effective enough but we will keep tweaking as we go that's the thing it's not in stone once you figure out what doesn't work or some people are using it a different way change it make it work that way they want to and someone does a question related to that I think will you be asking users to help identify issues as you're going along as you just demonstrated things that still might need to tweak it so I know you said which other was really great you did obviously usability testing you even started this process that's going to be something going on in the future as well absolutely in fact that's you know we're building that whole feedback loop into the development process and so when we launch we will probably have some kind of widget in the corner somewhere that basically says you know how do you like this or you know help us make this better or something you know that will kind of get that information to us did you find what you were looking for right you know something sort of vague so that we can kind of get as much information as possible we're also doing training for staff in April and in May different types of training for frontline staff content creators and how to use the new catalog the works level stuff is a totally new paradigm that I think people are going to be a little bit sort of thrown off of you know it's going to be a change for them so they're going to have to know how to do that so part of that training is also how do you ask questions that are open-ended enough that you kind of get the type of feedback that is really helpful you know what page were you on what were you trying to do those sorts of things and we'll get that feedback and try and incorporate that as well of course that's something you always have to do like you said I guess now like as you said the cliche that making it user centered and user centric yeah and keep doing that and keep moving you know don't just get stuck with what you went with you guys did a lot of good work on here and figuring out what they might be doing and want to do but how much you can do at a time in planning somebody's going to do something different that you've never thought of and nobody realized and no research showed you and you're like oh well of course so open to change is good yeah anybody have any other questions go ahead and type them in we can ask we still got about 5-10 minutes left here to go but you just have a comment kudos to you for all of your work the library user in me is applauding and it's probably the simplification of finding just the item I want thank you and yes definitely clean websites not a lot of stuff around it is what I prefer as well being having less to have to figure out and muddle through to find just the one thing I'm looking for too many websites are still doing that but I'm seeing a lot of them move to the bootstraps theme and this kind of clean theme with not fly out fly out fly out I'll you know hierarchy down all the way because some people like me I can't control my mouse enough to do all that to get on the right one that I want to especially elderly people who have a real problem with you know arthritis or just they haven't grown up using a mouse we take for granted often times the ability to manipulate a cursor around the screen because it's just like a nature to us and it's not and also when you're coming to some computer just a new computer you haven't used I know some people like I have a trackball mouse and not many people here at the library commission do our computer team gets very upset when they get upset like I don't know how to use because they use the traditional mouse and I get frustrated when I go on a laptop that we have that has the touch pads I hate those things I just can't seem to coordinate myself enough for them and it does become frustrating and this kind of thing is just so much easier to yeah and I'm glad you mentioned the bootstrap framework because that's you know I mean this actually this site does actually use bootstrap it's not you know it's got a lot of stylistic style changes from you know the default bootstrap but you know the emergence of sort of the 12 column layout and the tools the CSS tools that come along with that make development of websites much easier and it's totally worth taking the time to learn those frameworks because it's going to save you a ton of time in the long run and it's nice it's good to see that you're using bootstrap because so many I mean it's very nice and clean but it's becoming really prevalent a lot of a lot of websites not just everywhere are using that and they all are starting to look the same with the same basic format and yeah I just saw a thing recently yeah this is the one that just came out yes everybody all the websites look the same but they work but it's not it's actually kind of a funny this is like a little play on every website looks like this but it's because it's working for people but it's nice to see that you took it and you give an example that it can be modified a bit to make it really more personal to you to make it look more unique from all the other ones that are using just the standard right absolutely we didn't want to look we wanted to use bootstrap but we didn't want to look like bootstrap right exactly and it's nice that for those of us like myself who have never taken any or done any sort of graphic design type education this is shows how it can you don't it's okay you can make something that looks pretty and useful and clean and without you know being afraid of the fact that but I'm not a draft graphic designer I'm not a web designer what what am I supposed to do how am I supposed to make my site not look not look like I'm not one right exactly and there's a lot there are a lot of resources out there to kind of help like this is obviously a bootstrap as well you know that you can see but there are a lot of resources out there and also just kind of looking at sites that you like you know we went to sort of this full width full width site knowing that that's sort of an emerging design trend and also it just happens to be really easy to design that way and also not have all that wasted space on the sides that right a lot yeah exactly and the other nice thing is that if you're using something like bootstrap then you've got um responsiveness built in so I can resize this yeah you know you've got the menus here it's still usable it hasn't gone become a mess with many yeah exactly people of different size monitors going some people have the widescreen going now and some are still have the more typical the smaller more squarish yeah and they've also done a lot of the work for backward compatibility with older browsers nice yeah and also accessibility so you can you can put in image tags and all that stuff kind of works very nicely things that you don't want to have to think about when you're designing websites that's that's all there right absolutely alright anybody have any other last-minute questions we just got a couple of minutes left um anything desperately urgently you need to ask John right now I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions later as well if you reach out to him anything else you want to say before we wrap it up this morning I don't think so again I'm always available for questions so the email is john at library.net so feel free to email anytime I'm happy to respond great alright doesn't look like anybody's typed in anything right you know urgently at the moment so I think we will wrap it up for days so we're almost at the top of the hour again here at 11 a.m. so thank you so much John this is really cool I really like I think you had mentioned your Darian Library TV is where I first you know asked you about and I had seen that it last year a year ago that you started it and I wrote myself a little note to send myself an email reminder give him a few months to see how this goes and then reach out to John and say hey now that this has been going for a while let's talk about how what's what's happened and I'm glad you had this these other things that you talk about the SOPAC 3 and everything they've got to see a little peek at what will be coming soon for your library website well thanks for having me all right I'm going to pull back my presenter control to my screen here now I can do this right show there we go a couple seconds come up all right all right so thank you everyone for attending this morning the show has been recorded and will be here this is our main Encompass Live website and we have all our upcoming shows here but right beneath that is our archive shows so you'll see here all our shows actually going back to the very beginning in 2009 we first started all up on our YouTube and I think this one has yeah we'll have the recording this is last week's show so this one will be have the recording our YouTube channel John I don't know if you wanted to your slides you can send them to me or you have somewhere else that you're posting them I can link to sure I can send them to you whichever you prefer we're not picky and then I have collected in our delicious account over here and the web links that John has been mentioning the library site itself the github and Jekyll everything the Darian Library TV so you have those all collected together on our recordings page when this is all done so that will wrap it up for today's show I hope you join us next week when our topic is womb literacy a parent to be program this is a great session that I think that we got coming up here Jennifer Jordan Breck I believe I pronounced that correctly from Iowa just next door to us she's got this program at their library helping parents before the baby is even born getting into reading and literacy to get right on top of that right away so sign up for that next week and any of our other upcoming shows we're still working on some finalizing some plans for April so there will be some more added to this and hopefully very soon so you'll see some of those coming in also end compass live is on Facebook so if you are a big Facebook user please do pop over there and give us a like I post reminders of when shows are coming up like here this morning I posted to login on the fly for people to come in today's show when our recordings are available and ready to go I will post up here as well so if you are big on Facebook like us over there and keep up with what we are doing other than that thank you very much for joining this week and we'll see you next week on end compass live bye