 Welcome to episode 12 of the red man group patriarchs edition. We've got a solid panel today We're going to talk about life lessons What are these fathers are facing how they're going to be passing these things on to our children and this new day in age? And we're going to focus on the fact that you know as fathers and as men who are raising the next generation The only way to make the future great or to make the future better than how we found it It's for us to play an active role in it So we've got like I said an excellent lineup. It's gonna be solid discussion. Welcome smash like button You know, let's do this. So Today we have the socrates. We've got Ryan Mickler and Bobby Dino So with each of these men what I really like about this panel is they're already doing the thing that we're talking about You know when it comes to Ryan, he's talking about he comes from the order of man calm You know, that's about brotherhood. That's about, you know, he has his kid working He's passing on life lessons and it's amazing to see and you have Bobby Dino Bobby's working on a nonprofit Bobby's working on getting his family involved and growing one of his he's doing and then socrates has manning up smart You know my red hat again passing on a legacy creating something that's gonna last longer than themselves All of them are creating these things and today we've got them on the panel So we're gonna start out with Bobby and sock sock. How you doing man? It's going on doing well Great to be here and actually meet Ryan So it's a kind of kind of one of the things where you know a personality on the internet and actually be able to see him You know relatively live on his screens like gonna be great to see and hear what he has to say and get to know Now let's talk my red hat real quick. How's it? Yeah, you know, that's awesome that it's out there and doing its thing Yeah, it's kind of kind of crazy that the notion of my red hat is not so much the story of my red hat Or the fact that it's a children's storybook But it was a question that we always kind of pondered with my involvement in a 21 convention of men bootstrapping themselves and trying to Self-improve themselves and take responsibility and agency of their own lives and in recently you hosted the the patriarch event Where we talk about responsible fatherhoods, but you know, the interesting thing becomes is you know What happens if you you know, we are talking to the wrong audience, you know, the people are already damaged What if you could go back in time and get to these people before they are ever damaged now in reality? We can't do that But what we can do is start today and talk to the children and help give the children skills life skills for today You know kind of the classic elements of how to behave socialization all those sort of things that we need to do and learn But to do it in the lens that we understand and value and the key on this is you get there before the trauma occurs So you don't have to repair a broken individual and the question becomes is how do you do that? And of course, you know our our viewpoint is you do this through cultivation and particularly that's always from the father And so what ends up happening is how do you teach men who have been grossly under fathered through divorce and isolation? How to father who don't who have never had that imprinting themselves, you know And so in essence you're giving somebody not only a manual on how to do something But you're showing them how to do it while they're actually doing it live and we figured hey what would that look like and we kind of basically came up with it at the last 21 convention in October at the House party I threw and everyone's battering ideas about and ended up being a very late conversation that picked up the following day The next two days of the convention and we end up creating a product in six months. Actually, let me pull it Actually, here it is. I don't know if you guys can see this perfect product placement Sorry about that. But yeah, Anthony actually had a copy of it And so you know you sit down and say hey, it's it's something that's out there We'll give it a whack if we can get to support will continue on the ideas are going to be a series of these But we just sat down and said we have to do something We're not gonna feel good about ourselves if we don't if it fails it fails, but we're putting it out there Did I wish you the greatest of success. I think thank you. Thank you awesome Bobby. It was quick I'm doing well. How are you doing? All right? I'm in the shed life, baby. I know I can see the construction going on It's looking great coming together awesome So what's new how's the the business end everything working on your end wheel and deal I think you were talking that you're on a phone call and trying to manage somebody else on the while right before doing this Well, you know other other entrepreneurs or people that are running their own businesses. They know it doesn't stop It's like you wake up and you're instantly doing it and you go to sleep, you know doing it So I or at least for me. So yeah, it is like that But thank God that I mean I do have some business to do. I'm appreciative and thankful for that The writing is still chugging along. I'm doing revisions for the nonprofit for what I need to to Delivered to the IRS the IRS can kick things back if they don't like the way it's worded or if they don't like it at all And then you just have to start the whole process over again. So I'm trying to get everything right the first time And I've had some people look at it that are you know really qualified people and just get not moving forward And of course the speaking I got I just finally got my passport gonna be in Poland and and just looking forward to Reaching out to more men and helping more men You had that you had to twist that knife, right? So I will not be a bullet That is the exact weekend that we're having the fraternity meet-up. Yeah You're gonna be missed you know what you and your ass for the rest of the show All right, Ryan You probably have made the largest dent on the interwebs, but this is your first time in the red man group So for the men who follow here that may not know who you are Could you give us an introduction and how it is you got to where you are? Yeah, you bet. I don't know about the largest dent. I mean, I think we've been fortunate I think we quite honestly I don't know. I don't want to say lucky but stumbled into the right the right message at the right time I think this is something men need so I'm honored first of all that you guys would invite me to be part of this This is pretty cool. I love to see men lifting each other up It's something society needs more than ever and so to be just a small part of it is is humbling to me So I want to thank you guys for that. Oh, but yeah, I started order of man about four years ago Really ultimately when I started I had no idea what it would grow into my goal was to talk with men that I Aspired to be like guys who were successful in their businesses guys who I thought had their family lives figured out good fathers They had things locked down with their their significant other their wife Yeah, that's that's really how I started I started a podcast with financial planning about seven LSE Six years ago and realize a man. I really love the medium of podcasting But wanted to shift away from my financial planning practice so I launched order of man with the podcast in March of 2015 and I Mean it just blew up from day one So we've been fortunate to reach millions and millions of men across the planet and again It's a testament to what we're doing here what all you guys are doing. I'm honored to be part of this And and I think I think this is the right message at the right time So We're in a good place and we're doing good things and it's cool to be around other men who are doing good things Which has always been my goal to put myself in the environment of other men who have achieved great things of things That I want to achieve for myself. So that's why this fraternity and organization is so important So one of the guys in the chat was saying that they're going to the they're gonna be watching the Democratic debates tonight And and I couldn't help but think of the contrast of how they're they're gonna work to break each other down And we work to build each other up. It's like selflessly giving, you know, nobody knows I don't think I've shared it publicly, but I went to Ryan for help. I was like, hey man I'm going through some changes, you know, what do you think about this? You know, would you offer me that you know what any advice and like took picked up the phone We had a conversation and just just giving like selflessly. Hey, here's what I did here This worked for me. I tried that that didn't work, you know See try this see if it works out for you and I did it worked out great inside foe And it's amazing that when you look at any other group, it's it's not that way people are not looking to build one another up They're looking to break each other down and when you look at the patriarchs what red man groups trying to do It's like the rising tide all of us win when when we all succeed, you know, your success helps me Mine helps them and they help them. It's wild. So let's just keep riding that wave, you know Let's keep doing it. Yeah, man I think we live in this world of scarcity, you know Everybody thinks it's a zero-sum game that if I get somebody else can't have and I haven't found that to be kicked the chase about anything So I think it's better to lift each other up and support each other and help each other and we learn and grow in the process So it's a good thing. Hey while you guys are talking. I'm noticing. I'm a little dark here I'm gonna go flip the light on here real quick while you guys keep talking. I'll be right back to get that light All right. So while he's getting up to get some illumination I'd like to let you two know we're about to hop into the The topic of the day but before we do that for everybody watching our sponsor is tactical soap, you know What we're doing they're always helping us they put themselves in the line I actually put some we got a war beard oil in before doing this So I look sexy for all of you so Support the sponsors if that's something that you need in your life Or you want to support somebody besides Walmart or Target, you know help help the men that are helping men Ryan's back. So we're gonna shift into the topic of the day So the title is the patriarchs life lessons to save the future What are the life lessons each of us will be giving should be giving other fathers should be giving so you look at Something I was talking to the guys We're in a different age and Ryan kind of alluded to this with technology the way it is with society The way it is, you know people look back on the fifth the 20s the 50s the good old days That's when men were men and families were families and life lessons were passed along And I think with our generation, you know, I'm 32 and I think you know plus minus 10 years that window We've got a whole different ballgame. We've got to work with there's a whole new world. We're facing So I want to throw it on the table that What are the life lessons you're ensuring that you're instilling in your children? And what do you think are the new life lessons? We need to start paying attention to whether it comes to social media use what proper age to be exposed to these things You know, do you do you learn to master the analog world before your drops in the digital one? You know, I'm really looking forward to this discussion and for all the fathers in here Towards the end we're going to do a quick Q&A So if you want to log your questions, you know, don't ask them now because it's going to interrupt the flow But you know write it down or save it and then like I said the last 15 20 minutes I'm able to do a Q&A for the fathers out there who are trying to figure themselves out So with that I'm going to throw the ball to you guys You know, I might I might start and share something if I can One of my thoughts is that you know in a lot of ways what we're facing is new Because we do have a lot of technology and digital technology and all this stuff as well But in in a way we also are returning to something that I actually Enjoy and that I find a lot of value in fulfillment in is the ability to be at home with my family You know, I think if you look at prior to the industrial revolution men were out Tilling the ground and working with their boys and learning side-by-side hand-in-hand through back breaking work And although, you know, maybe we don't have to do this back breaking work anymore It's pretty it's pretty cool that I'm able to work out of my house It's pretty cool that I can get my son engaged in the business in the shipping department, which is where he's starting This is this is a powerful Opportunity this technology that we have I think so many people tend to like beat it up and look down upon how technology Has changed us for the worst and certainly there's been elements of that But I've actually found the exact opposite to be true This has opened up something that I don't think was possible 20 or 30 years ago when men had to go out into the workforce Leave little Timmy and little Bobby at home to be raised by mom and to be raised by the women in the school system And now we have these opportunities through technology and social media to stay back where we belong in the household And be able to raise our kids side-by-side with our spouses It's actually been really really powerful and again fulfilling for me to be able to do this Bobby on jump on that Yeah, so one of the advantages that I had I mean I kind of Instruct guys to look for the silver lining effect a silver lining is when you can take a small victory from a larger loss, right? And so I Tell guys hey if you do take an L look for the silver lining, you know Look where you can learn look what look what was gained look what where you could improve and one of the things Even though never having met my my father because he died before I was born The silver lining there was being able to be kind of co-raised by my grandfathers spending time with each and and and they Had a lot of those old principles that yeah just aren't around anymore So when we talk about what am I ensuring that's being passed on it's the stuff that I don't see and and it's It's stuff that is so basic To where I don't even think twice about it, but I'm seeing that I have to tell young men You know like hey, hold open a door. Hey, if you're out on a date, maybe pull back a chair Hey, you know do something I mean just real basic type type stuff to where it was like manners Where I had I learned a little bit more roughly, you know, I mean them being as old as they were They were also a little bit more hands-on if you catch my drift, you know, so I I was told something once you know what I mean, but but but these these kids it's Because and that's kind of segues into the second half of what Hunter was talking about and he actually did touch on it is this social Media stuff. I think I think the danger of social media isn't too much Information per se because we're gonna have like right now or the smartest kids that have ever been on the planet, you know I'll with with this information on their hands. Um, I think what happens is is they can see a Million different ways that they can be so and what I mean by that is my daughter used to watch these different YouTube guys, you know and and at first I thought it was harmless until I started listening to what they were saying and How they were acting and it'd be like, oh shut up mom or oh, you know, did it and I'd be like whoa wait a second That kid just tells mom to shut up, you know, like I mean just little things to where you cause it to slip a little bit and it segues into just mass Disrespect no reverence for the elders and and I think social media is a big is a big cause for for seeing a slip in that You brought up something great and sock I want to hear your point in just a second But when you think when we think of fitness, it's very easy to say if you eat bad food Your body's gonna look bad and it's not gonna perform the way you want it to social media and Just entertainment as a whole is the same way whatever you're consuming is going to have an impact on you It's gonna do something so you're gonna consume something that's good for you or something that is not, you know My son he wanted to watch something before bed and he's like can I watch Animal Planet or blue or blue planet because he knows I'm not good You know, you're not gonna watch something that is you know, I don't even know what other shows are out there But you know the toxic shit that you're talking about, you know, you're not gonna have that and then You know, it just you lose your child to the show the screen raises them the screen instills values and morals and behaviors And it's disgusting that and that's why I really want to do this That's why I love that Anthony kind of greenlit the the patriarch episodes because I want to have these conversations There might be fathers who don't know what they don't know They don't even realize by allowing their child they think they're being nice. Hey watch YouTube You'd like to learn from this dude, you know, they don't even realize by not being the filter You know by not filling that role by not giving presence But instead giving presence with the TS instead of a CE then they're gonna lose their kid to that individual You're no longer father. You're no longer parenting. You're kind of just watching a kid be raised by another man or screen rather sock Hey, can I interject on just one thing on that real quick sock? I don't mean to interrupt you No, no, no, no jump in jump in I just want to before we move on to that I want to say that I think part of the problem is that we've propped our kids up on pedestals They don't belong and and what we've allowed them to do is dictate the tone of the conversation Dictate the tone of the environment everything revolves around them I have friends who they adjust their schedule based on what their kids need and and certainly within within Reason that makes sense But to adjust everything for a child doesn't make sense to me And so what I think is so valuable about fathers is that we're not just letting them Experience everything without any sort of consequences or letting them decide what they want to do But we're giving them structure and guidance and discipline and self-imposed parameters in which to operate some would call it discipline We give those set that though those impose parameters and let them come up with parameters And then let them see the negative consequence of stepping outside of those parameters Let them feel it and that's one thing I try to do is I let my kids Experience the full weight of their decisions both positive and negative if I strip them of those consequences I rob them of the opportunity to figure out what their own parameters are and let them run rampant in you know In a situation where they could potentially hurt themselves or or do Permanent damage to their their life potentially So it's it's really important that we impose those parameters and have these guidelines in place And you just don't see it as much anymore. It seems like That was very well said. Do you know how many men who see this are gonna be the men who said I never knew how to draw boundaries. That's why I was taking advantage of my whole life I never knew and that's exactly why that the preventable pain and sock So I had written this note to talk about later But I'd love to now the preventable pain is work the role that fathers play you said that you know How do you get to them before the trauma right by being an involved father? you know Ryan Stone once said our father's necessary and The point was he wasn't saying fathers aren't necessary Look what we're doing all of us are having men come to us that are adult men And we're kind of feeling that role and help accelerate their growth to being the man themselves So he's like well, what's the real role? It's the preventable trauma. It's being able to get to them earlier It's preventing years of pain. It's preventing men who don't even make it out of it You're losing 18 years of Culturing you know and saying hey I can interject that at the last part of their lives And I don't know of a job performance criteria around that you can sit down and say I'll bone up the last five minutes You know prior to an exam. It's it's like trying to crush for for an exam You're just not going to do as well if you've been raised and been learning and developing that that knowledge base over a course of a lifetime You know and I've got to confess right now You know to sit down and say I've done a particularly poor job with my step sons You know they came into my life about a little over three years ago We moved into a blended family three years ago and my notion at the time I had some very severe concerns about Taking on another man's responsibilities and in light of skewing my out, you know So I sat down and said there's only so much of me going on We're coming out of a recession or you know kind of kind of still very much in one at least professionally and sit down Said there's only so much of me going on I need the mom to still kind of cultivate her sons and Basically allowed her to sit down say look I'll support you, but you need to take the lead on this and and so basically I let the guy the the two boys kind of left them to their own devices and that was a terrible disservice that I have to acknowledge and Break, you know breach and acknowledge to them very directly and then I have to sit down and say I have to start with where I'm at Not where I want to be and then turn back into it particularly with these these two young men from the standpoint I only have a little bit of time And and he sit on say it's very odd to be in a situation where I have zero problem helping other young men out But all of a sudden that the young men that are in my life, you know that are essentially my family tribe now I had reservations about stepping in because I was concerned about being a cock And you just sit down and say how how kind of obscene, you know to sit down and say that I was conditioned and cultured for that But you know and I don't want to blame You know up that the influence because I I ended up doing it, you know And of course like any like any advice, you know the advice you take you own And you sit down and say I wish I didn't do that, you know conversely where I'm involved with my daughter I'm spending a tremendous amount of time Cultivating her and one of them one of the most important things right now I'm doing because she's three is Socialization and part of that is surrounding her with incredibly high quality men in a social function So the night of the convention where I had everybody over at the house She was very much out present, you know talking and engaging with everybody Likewise when we just had the speakers over and again recently on my birthday, which was last weekend Where I had eight or nine guys sitting at the house and she would come over and socialize and be around and see men Engage with these individuals So it's not like for example Particularly with raising a daughter where you try to shoo the boys away You want to make sure that trouble just doesn't come in off the road, you know company does But trouble always arrives from the range And so what you want to make sure is that you're providing a safe stable Consistent home quality develop those socialization skills all the critical life skills that you'll need But to also sit down and say we're gonna put up boundaries and fence lines and anything coming off the range We know is gonna be relatively a threat anybody who's coming up off the road way is gonna be a whole different story So you have to sit down and provide reasonable and appropriate access socialization wise for a daughter But at the same time still screen Effectively for for the the barbarians come out of the fence on Whenever, you know, you put on your spread world-famous seeing your two boys it's the Like the best part of all 21 con because you know the events all the men are together We're all doing our thing and you get to see the future like you get to see these two young men And they're they're holding their own they're sitting there. They're when they speak to you They're speaking from the chest eye contact and I'm always I never say it to them But it's always like a mental note of like it is And you're not the only one that says that and it's one of the things that I I observe from a distance And you sit down and say regardless of kind of what goes on at the home when you know Where it's just us, you know when your hair is kind of letting down and you can kind of get a little sloppy But the boys know to present and to represent the household without a doubt and so, you know I think Richard Cooper brought it up is that you know when we sat at the table They were making sure that certain things were done They were making of that I would sit down and say hey go get this or you know minor things But they did it and there was no bitching about it. They were proud to do it they knew they were being of service and there's a complete difference between giving somebody a chore to do and Allowing somebody to be of service of other men to be around it and essentially earn the position to be that close to that group of men And I know I've had conversations with those boys about that They particularly appreciate it and they actually enjoy it and so I'm trying to show them what that's like So they can replicate that in their own life because we're mammals We learn by imprinting by what we experience what we see what we observe You know we like to sit down and think we're rational we can study through a book But the reality is the real lessons are typically learned through experience and they can be positive experiences are negative But the the issue is you try to provide the most positive benefits and world examples or life examples You can and you do that by living a fulfilling life in which you are thriving and when they can see that and they can emulate it They'll be able to try try that and know what it's like for themselves. I Really like that you're talking about including your kids I mean that's if there's anything that we can do is include him as and as many experiences as possible I mean that's part of the reason why I have my son working with me in the shipping department because I want him to experience how to begin to run a business I want him to experience Customer service and how we care about things and when he messes up on on signing it and misspells a name or I say Hey, what we send out is is as close to perfection as we possibly can can you do it better than that? Yes, I can good redo it, right and in a way. I love that you're talking about also earning it, right? They they don't get to just have stuff They've got to earn stuff a lot of times my oldest because he just wants to be me, right? So he gets he gets into the conversations and he wants to be around because I include him and at times I have to remind him hey, you're an observer right now you don't get to just be here and and you haven't earned the right to Participate in the way that you want to participate. I want you to get to that point, but right now I need you to be quiet. I need you to observe I need you to learn how I interact with other men or interact and engage with my business and that's been a fine line and Something I've had to work on as well for for my own relationship with my kids. Yeah And I think you know to add to that one of the things that I see us doing much better Not creating a place where there's never a recognition of when Right has been achieved, you know when that you did something right, you know We a lot of fathers like my dad's dad would never say like you know I'm proud of you or you know, I was talking to George Bruno, you know His dad he didn't say I love you but he showed it by my having roof over his head by by taking my vacation So I we recently spoke about that on the morning brew and it kind of hit me I was like, you know, I I now am in very intentional. I do not give it away, but when it is earned I certainly ensure he knows that He can't read my mind. I have to let him know like hey man I saw what you did. I'm very proud of you for choosing to do that instead of that You know, good job. Let's make sure we keep it up. You know, it's never a Dramatic, you know, let out thing you speak to look a man because your son is a future man Your daughter's a future woman speak to them accordingly children are capable of so much more than we give them credit So the quick pat in the back. Hey, your dad is proud of you. They won't have that complex I was never good enough. My dad didn't love me. No, like come on. If you properly show love as a man They'll never have to go through those love orening. Oh, I think Are you there? Yeah, we're here. Okay. Sorry Peter doubted the last part. No, I totally agree with what you're saying. I like that that that Socrates Touched on something that's very good with his daughter how he's conditioning her young now I'm the same way with with my daughter. She's she's eight now I'm gonna be nine towards the end of the year But I've always been very selective on who I let her be around especially around men and it's only high quality men You know so she sees the difference and she knows like when somebody's acting like a man and somebody's acting like a kid and and Traversely, I also have a 23 or well He's gonna be 23 in a couple in a couple weeks, but I have a 23 year old son and a lot of those lessons that you're talking about Hunter like like letting them know when they did well letting them, you know When there when there was a mistake telling them you love them, but like at the same time like being The teacher the instructor, you know, the all fathers so to speak That lasts with them because even as a 23 year old who's you know doing his own thing He's still super respectful. He's still super loving, you know, he and you can tell that it stayed with them No, I think oh, I was just gonna say I think you guys are bringing up a great point here And that is that we as fathers need to connect the dots Right like we may have learned the lesson, right? We learn the lesson and I think what we fall fall victim to a lot of the times is That we forget they may not have learned the lesson and we assume that because they experienced something They extracted the lesson from it and that's not true. It's our job to help connect the dots Hey, here's what happened. Here's what we can learn or better than that even is. Hey, here's what happened What did you learn from that? Interaction or that exchange or that circumstance that you found yourself in but we've got to make sure that we're not Leaving pieces of the puzzle Unset or on the table by not making and formulating those connections for our kids Yeah Well, I was in the military one of the things we would have as you go on an exercise And it would be one thing you would kind of learn the immediate lesson supposedly whatever happened The most important element of the exercise wasn't the actual event of what occurred But the after-action review where we'd all sit together and say hey, this is what was happened This is how things played out. What were you intending? What was supposed to be going on? What should have you done better or could have you done a better? Where did you fail yourself or whatever whatever the case may be and what we ended up doing was it? We end up drawing together upon everybody's Experiences and you you the interesting part was owning up to your responsibility as to hey I was trained and I was supposed to do this or I failed to do this Or I didn't know how to actuate and you sit down and say and you learn things by that review process afterwards a Tremendous amount more than just going through it And so it was one of those things that I learned Professionally to do sales. So what are the things you learn when I was a Calvary scout that I apply as an architect today? Is that I keep kind of a notebook off to the side? Actually, it's a word document of any of these change orders or things where you say that was a stupid mistake I don't have to repeat it again, and I and I log it back in this other notebook And what I end up doing is reviewing that with my production crew my team and we review past lessons And the other thing what I'll do is I'll periodically pre-brief them on hey These are the following things we're gonna do this time. We failed the last time here's why this is how we're gonna improve What were some of the learned things you learned or picked up and kind of post interview them that way? And so I've taken that in my professional life And now I'm doing the same thing with the with the boys and doing the same thing and and it's amazing the Conversations you end up having and it's not so much. Hey, this is the experience in what I did it's that conversation where you're engaging with them and asking their opinion and and putting them out there and having them discuss it that All of a sudden there's this bonding that takes place and the degrees in which they can come to you and talk about other things that They're facing it before it ever turns into an after-action review. I find to be really really beneficial Amazing the overlap between all the stories, you know Whether it's you know, whether it's Ryan's son, you know explaining you what happened, you know Or just how you know you're saying that in the military the way it worked I'd say that that's a part of the rite of passage to becoming a leader, you know You take your e2, you know, you take the private you take you know, whatever one of the lower-ranked guys Hey, I want you to lead this now. They've got to stand up. It's now their turn and for the fathers watching There's no difference when you say that to your son. Hey son I want you to teach me something and you know, oh now they learn here's how I compose myself How I speak to somebody how I relay my thoughts in a manner that accurately depicts what happened, you know That's and you said something really important You actually sat down and said you have to put them in the role of leadership. I Was a military brat. My father was an Air Force officer. He didn't raise officers My father raised great NCOs. So when the time came for my brother and I to actually build military Yeah, yeah, guess what happened. We you know one my parents were mortified and two I went into the army there They were just like they were sick. I mean they just couldn't understand it And it was interesting enough is that it was much later You know where I kind of had a dinner party, you know And they're talking about it and my dad says I just don't understand we didn't raise you that way and I had to turn to him and said pop you didn't raise an officer you raised an NCO and He was like hell I did you know and I go when did you ever give me leadership responsibilities? You always told me this is what I expect This is what we're gonna do and then you told me to execute on it That's an NCO and so what he got was an NCO in kind And so if we're talking about if we want our sons to be leaders You actually have to raise that in that that individual to be a leader And so what fathers I think miss is teaching their kids Essentially an officer candidate school. What are the what are the the the the key elements of leadership? What are the examples to go by what are the experiences that you need to do and then put them in charge of actually doing it? And one one of the most important ones is is the lessons learned You know and Bobby talked about this is the lessons learned through failure and finding the silver line And I think a lot of young men don't put themselves in a point of failure And therefore they're afraid to lead and so you know you we talk about people being sheeple and everything else I think that's a cultural response. I think that you know as fathers We're not cultivating our children to do that and I know in particular these are some of the things I'm looking at what the boys to do and then also with my daughter. I Think the reason we don't do that is because frankly it sucks like it's Right I don't I don't want to watch my kids fail Yeah, I don't want to watch my kids like my son as I put him down to bed tonight I don't he was having a difficult time. He didn't want to share with me what it was I'm sure we'll talk about it tomorrow, but I Don't want to experience that I don't want him to experience that and so we make the mistake of Trying to shelter them from that and it's not for their sake. Guess who's right right for ours Yes, yes selfish action to not let your kids experience hardship and heartache and failure and leadership That you're not saving them your truck You're attempting to save yourself and you're you're doing them a great disservice when you do that Yeah, and ultimately you're kicking the can down the road It's gonna be pay me now or pay me later You you'll reap the benefits of the neglect and and the lack of involvement at at a critical time It you will see it come back And it's gonna be worse Yeah with interest yeah, yeah crude interest And now shift gears a little bit Do you guys are there any subjects you won't discuss with your kids and the reason I bring this up is growing up My father would not talk to me about Finance like you would not we did not talk about money like how much you made how we spent it I didn't had no idea how to manage it the Navy taught me that you know or religion politics You know the taboo subjects sex relationships, you know, I kind of learned all of that on my own Do you find yourselves because of the men that you're around you you understand the need For that to to be discussed and kind of be open or is that still something that? Her parents, you know, some people will talk about it. Some people won't One of the advantages my daughter Has we homeschool her too and it's like she's an only child essentially because her her sister and brothers are In their 20s and out of the house and living somewhere else It's it's kind of a blessing and a curse because she hears the way that my wife and I who were two adults Interacted with each other and we tend to interact with her the same way because we don't want to dummy anything down for So it's made her real smart, but it's also made her real hip to where like she has questions, you know So so she'll she'll see your read or do different things and then she'll want to ask and I find that there's There's a tactful way to approach Everything, but I don't think that you should necessarily hold anything off when it comes to them asking I would I personally I try and take the most tackle person I mean, I suppose we can sit here and think of extremes that I'd just be like no We're not talking about that but in general, okay I try to be in as informative as possible and what I've been seeing with that is she was in gifted and talented classes this year She's gonna be in gifted and talented classes next year because With this inquisitiveness comes just a brain that's continuing to flourish and and I'm for that I mean for me, I you know, I try to look at it and think as objectively as possible, you know as as the person in the interaction talking about Pornography for example with my eight-year-old son is not a comfortable conversation That's subjective, right? It's uncomfortable for me But objectively It's probably a pretty good idea to start addressing. He's on the internet. He's looking at things He's probably curious to some degree and so I need to look at it objectively and think what is in his best interest not mine So as awkward as these conversations are it's in his best interest to learn and and I think too, you know to The point earlier is like there's there's times where it's appropriate and times where it's not You know if you're having the birds and bees talks, you're not gonna tell your seven-year-old son All the intricacies of how this happens, but you can you can talk about some of it, right? And I think a lot of the times we think of these things like it's a one-time conversation, right? Oh, have you had the birds and the bees talk? Well, it's not a talk It's a series of conversations. So it's not like a one-and-done type thing. It's like well tell me what you know and Then he tells you what you know and you expand on that a little bit and maybe a couple of months later or a year later As it becomes more appropriate you expand and you expand and you expand but this is not a one-and-done thing This is an ongoing dialogue with money sex pornography drug and alcohol use Anything any there is nothing off the table here at our house Just a matter of the way we approach it and what's appropriate based on their age and maturity level as well You know the only reason and excuse me real quick talk the only reason Why and you touched on something with with pornography and I shouldn't say the only reason But it's a main reason why we do stay very open like this I'm gonna tell you guys a story There was this this service that was available this app It was called tick-tock and it was bought out by someone but essentially what it was is these kids could post these Videos of themselves lip-singing to popular music and the videos were very short You know they were a certain time and they do funny things like dance or whatever and it was a bunch of kids She showed it to me. I thought it was harmless, right and I'm still on it like okay Show me what you're posting before you post whatever about two weeks of her after or two weeks After her getting that out. She comes to me one day and goes dad. I got some not good stuff I got to show you this, you know, and I was like hmm look at somebody had sent her a dick pic She was like seven years old at the time, dude So like when you're talking about uncomfortable conversations and you know, whichever Yeah, and social media creates them Especially if we're not careful and we let it go too far in this age of information They have everything at their fingertips and things that you think they haven't seen yet They very male very well may have already, you know So it's it's we don't want to close off to that which was like the typical stuff because then you're gonna They're gonna be bouncing their heads off of a bunch of different things like pinballs growing up trying to learn Well, and who do you want him to learn from you as a mature man or a little Timmy down the street? Whose parents aren't around whose dad's who just dad abuses his wife like he's gonna learn or she's gonna learn Who who would you rather your child learn from me? Me so I have to do it as uncomfortable and awkward as it may be at times The thing that goes very well, especially when dealing with daughters, you know, she was open enough to go to you Hey dad like something's up, you know that same thing, you know, I talk a lot about you never want to be the dad saying I'm gonna sit here cleaning my shotgun when you get home to her date Look, she's gonna hide dates if you do that If you don't know how to handle your daughter eventually be coming to the age of dating and you're just insecure with yourself And you've got to put on, you know the fake tough guy like, you know, you're not gonna shoot the teen He knows it, you know it so you're just putting on this persona that it's not really who you are But if you develop a relationship with your daughter to where she's open about these things and she'll talk to you about You know when that when that happens and you know, she's in a voice whatever and she'll say Hey, you know, this is this is the guy I'd like him to meet you She'll want you to vet him instead of trying to hide him at school bingo bingo. Yep. Absolutely Yep So yeah, and Hunter to kind of jump on on on your question I don't think there's any topic that you know in my household that we don't talk about You know, obviously it's going to be age-appropriate But one of the things I think we focus on on is have have sustained Conversations about a variety of issues so that when you need to communicate or if there is a need there They know naturally to be able to come to you and and respond to you Recently, it's gonna sound super stupid on social media There was a short little video of some little girl on a cooking competition show And she couldn't open up the jar that she was going trying to utilize and she kind of kind of you could see it She's frustrated with it And then she looks over to the sidelines and she sees her dad runs over there gives them the jar He opens it gives it back to her and she's back into the race You want to be that figure and a lot of things were taking place there one You knew that wasn't the first time she came to him with any number of things and the reason why she knew she could go there Because he had been consistently been there throughout the course of her life And so I think you want to be able to have that You know not and not to just plug the you know the book in my red hat But the whole concept of kind of these story books is to be able to start engaging your children Early on in conversations with things, you know And so you can bring up and discuss fictional characters and the challenges they're facing, you know Like when it's a particular case of my red hat, it's it's bullying, you know How do you talk to your children about bullying? How do you prepare them in advance and what are what are the skills and trying to talk to your kids? Hey, have you been bullied today? Or did you see this is gonna be really hard conversation to have when they don't trust or have that established But to be able to sit down and have a story well in advance of it Being able to talk about fictionalized characters or you know, how to respond or how to see these things that have that kind of discussion Well in advance, I think serves everybody well and that's again going back to To develop in a culture and that culture of discussing things openly reasonably Responsibly even when they're serious or frivolous or you know, what we would consider taboo I think it's gonna be terribly important, you know, whether it's porn or women or sex or money Food, you know any number of things There's a whole litany of subject matter that we're gonna have to to face and the key is you can't prepare for all of them But you can you know confirm in and establish the lines of communications before you need them So that when they are there or you know when your challenge is that you don't have to establish that line of communication during the heated moment in a crisis Hey, so one of the things that that actually reminded me as you were talking is One of the things my wife and I have consciously decided is not not to Not to make our kids feel stupid about some of this stuff For example, you know, it might be easy with my oldest son. He's 11 now He's starting to get into girls and he's noticing girls and he's got little crushes and things like that for me to tease him about that Right for me to bust his balls about that. But the problem is if I do that that's gonna shut it off He's not gonna want to come talk to that anymore, right? So my wife and I have made a conscious decision that we don't make our kids feel stupid when they ask questions and we don't tease them about Sensitive issues where we're open. We're receptive those issues and we talk maturely about those things, right? And the other is that you know, for example, if in a particularly with how a young man is gonna relate to a girl You know how to flirt how to engage how to approach and the interesting thing is if you're not doing that with your partner Your wife and they can't see that they're not gonna emulate the same behaviors And so there was kind of a stupid thing I used to do with my girlfriend my partner now When I go out is that you if you ever had a still of a moment when you don't know what to say and you're out You act like what would her cat do and her cat would like test her, you know And so there would be a glass of water sitting on on a table and I would just sort of move it towards the edge Not not say anything about it and just move it and and keep moving it to the end And it's certain realizing she's realizing really quickly that you're gonna push this over and then the question is is are you the type of guy? Did actually not the glass over or not and and it got to be a kind of a fun thing And you have to be the guy that's gonna knock the glass over and then go see now This is why we don't have anything nice, you know and make a big big deal out of it. So having done that with her Her and I I was flirting one time at dinner and all I did was tap and move her glass a little bit And she got a big ass smile grin and the boys wanted to know the story, you know What happened here? So it's now kind of cultural shorthand in our house that if you're gonna tease or something up You just you just go over and you kind of move a glass or you don't even have to have a glass You just go do that the the hand pattern of like you were and and so what happens is I Watched this young man actually do that at a social event with one of the girls He was engaging with is that he's young you sit there and and he just goes over and starts moving That's and she's like what are you doing? She grabs a glass like he's gonna knock it over and he just got a big ass grin and laugh and you look at and go The kid just cribbed off my stuff But you sit down and say he imprinted and learned how to do that And so I make sure that they see me being romantic with her that I'm Sensitive and intimate with her not necessarily in a sexual way hold her hand caress her Do those sort of things that they understand how mammals interact naturally with each other Particularly when they're attracted it to each other and not necessarily be associated with a rousal and sex And so that they they have these sort of skillset firsthand having directly seen and witnessed and experienced that You touched on something interesting Socrates when you when you had said The reason why the girl that had gone to her father that she you could imagine The the backstory to it that she had gone many times because she knew she could depend on them, right? That is such a vital part to have in your family not only with your kids But with your spouse so that they is that they know they can depend on you and it's not just for money It's not just right a place to live, but it's for it's for safety. It's for guidance It's it's for for for teaching and love, you know So so I think that that's that's an important aspect when we're thinking about things to pass on because we were given we were given this this Example from from the old ways so to speak and and but we've also seen with I guess I guess you call it some of the boomer generation But even later than that to where these old people that withheld certain Info or maybe weren't as easy to talk about certain info Then you had their kids that you know in that whole generation just kind of Drifted away from what was the standard for so many years, right? So There's there's The fact of being there for them and and being able to share is so important and being able to be dependable on so many different Levels just because of that so that they are getting the full picture and they are gonna be have the best skill sets Possible and be the best served possible out there in the real scary dangerous world, right? Rather than maybe Missing pieces of the puzzle, right, right? I think when we look at this You know, that's the importance of doing what are this we're doing in this show, you know Having this conversation putting these things out there that some people just don't again They don't know so but they hear it they watch the show like oh man Like I'm the guy teasing my kid for being into girls, you know when really like that It should be the reverse, you know, you treat them like a young man who's becoming a man You know a future man if you will, you know, that's you wouldn't tease me if I was talking about you know And talking about my wife or flirt with the wife, you'd be like all right cool Like that's what you do, you know, so why is it different for your boy? It shouldn't be so That's part of it and the other part to what stock was saying is children follow our example not our advice I probably said that a million times and I'm gonna continue to say it because it's so freaking true What you do you can't tell your son? Hey, I read the rational mail and you should make sure you're gamer and keynote and do this stuff And then they look at you with your wife and you guys will walk on eggshells because they hate each other You haven't had a laugh together in months, you know, you barely sit down and look each other in the eye during meals You know that they're gonna see that they're gonna replicate that relationship. It doesn't matter what you say It's what you do, you know, they're watching what you do. They're gonna follow what you do So make sure you're living the message you're spreading, you know, we talk about larping You know, don't be the larping father and that's why whenever we do these shows I try to focus so much on applicable advice What we're telling you is not for you to sit and nod your head for the next hour And then to go back to doing what you're doing now take what we've taught or take what we discussed and make sure you Don't audit yourself. Are you doing the things that we're sharing because these these are these are working You know, these aren't coming from positions where we're saying to do this But we're not doing it ourselves all of us are living the life and it's it's working We're all in good positions, which is why we're here talking about it So make sure that you're in your life doing the same and something I wanted to share with you guys is one of the Most detrimental phrases a father can say is he'll figure it out They'll figure it out. No, man. They may not figure it out. Don't just assume. They're gonna learn this life skill That is your job. Do not give your duties away to anybody else. Oh, they'll figure it out I don't remember who brought this up. It might have been a totally different show But somebody was saying that a young man Let's say he's 21. He was gonna marry a mom twice divorced had four kids and she also wanted like his money or something and he's like I and she didn't want to sign a prenup or something like that and they went to the dad Like hey, you know, have you talked to him and the dad is like no, he'll figure it out This kid is about to go into a very hot mess and the dad could not care less now I would have ruined the kids life or at least set him back a decade, you know So that's our duty. That's why we're fathers to bear that burden heavies the head that wears the crown Everybody wants to be the king, but nobody wants to do kings shit making hard decisions what kings do This is actually one of the problems they see not only in raising raising kids But even within what we're trying to create individually with our own Movements for lack of a better term is one one phrase I hear quite often is real men don't need to be told how to be men from other men That's the exact opposite of what it's actually true Like real men learn and model from other real men And if you're thinking that you can't learn from another man, you've got a arrogance issue Your ego is getting in your way of letting you step into fully what you're capable of stepping into When we look at it with the relationship with our kids, it's easy to see that. Yeah, little Tim. He's gonna model me But it doesn't change as we get older I learned from you guys like if I'm not sitting here learning from you guys my peers That's a problem and that's hindering my growth as a man. I completely agree We had a discussion on that in the fraternity and it was on the quote You know follow example not advice, you know when you see men doing the thing so I see what you're doing I'm like, oh, I'm gonna follow that example, you know, I don't care really what you're saying I like to see what you're doing same thing for Bobby and sock. I'm like, what are you doing like? All right, that's really working for you like I'm digging that so the next time I have a party sock I'm gonna make a spread like yours, man. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna take a video for everything Like I was like man like you're doing it much better than I am I want to do better So I'm gonna raise my standard when it comes to hosting people at my home I'm gonna treat it not like a like an amateur. I'm gonna actually put some thought and effort into it instead of like Hey, there's some steak You know an interesting thing is that you know we talked about a spread and the party was a huge spread But for my birthday was not that necessarily elaborate, you know, we had these fairly large planks of wood and we put some, you know wrote, you know Essentially cold cuts, you know a little bit of cheese will put some fruit We put some nuts Essentially trail mix and we put the we had two of these on either side and the idea was that in the middle of the Table you could pick and choose and kind of you know as everybody's sitting you had to there was this communal property about You just didn't get a plate and put everything on your plate and kind of eat it You're all doing that, you know, essentially a Swedish norwegian smorgasbord of food But the idea of communal living breaking bread with each other having the discussions doing those things was and it was Absolutely intentional and so I recognize the value of what the the the value of food has as far as a conveying system Values and sentimentality of having people at your home and sharing food as well You share ideas and company and spirit and so that's always been deeply ingrained in me and that was something culture You know it's something my mom did you know my folks were you know from very small towns in Montana And then my dad becomes an Air Force officer and has to then be you know quote an officer and gentlemen And I I saw my mother Really take that to heart and so that was impressed upon me my father enabled it to a high degree And so when we're in Europe we get to see other things and we've incorporated a lot of that And it becomes a point of pride and so that you know, I know that for example I can tell the boys hey I need this setup and they know to go do it you know as opposed to you know saying hey Let's go sort of you know take care of this and I have to dictate what that is But there was that element of saying hey food is kind of central to this experience And that becomes a referential point for grounding the experience and something I take pride in and something I make sure that I do when I host everybody at the house and that that is something very very important to me And it's in its displayed on on the platter itself You know without without knowing you and and and what you're necessarily talking about here outside of what you just shared I I imagine that your boys are behaving like that way that that way that's standard Because not not because you told them what to do but because you told them the why behind it And then involved them in the process of actually doing so there was actually where you set this tray up kind of do it and the interesting the really kind of fascinating point of this is Because of the scale of it at the party, you know with the 21 convention, we were essentially host is going to sound of the Same we invited everybody at the convention to the house And so you're talking over 200 people were in my house at one time and we provide or durges drinks liquor at the whole nine yards So part of it was I sat down and said hey I'm gonna need some support staff, you know send over some of the volunteers from 21 convention and a couple of guys That I knew and they're still around Having them they wanted to see how this was done and one of the guys who had volunteered before who was my roommate Knew kind of how to do this and it wasn't necessarily totally confident in getting it done So you give them the instruction show them kind of how to do it have them elaborate Have them improvised and then kind of do it and then replicate it And so the boys are watching me mentor a much older young man You know the guy in his mid-mid to late 20s on how to do and prepare stuff And they're seeing me do this with them as well and then a nurse enough a couple weeks later He's back at the house and we're talking and he talks about how he ended up doing the same thing He was he was I totally stole. I'm you didn't steal it. This was a gift You know and he absolutely took pride in it and to the point that he you know Sentence you know showed me the photos of this thing and he did a killer damn job And and you can sit down and acknowledge that he'd not only done that But he set a new level and mark for himself by being exposed to the event Volunteering and doing everything else and the boys actually got to see this whole process Take place and how that enriched him and that was also part of that learning process So but yeah, it's it's it's been a really interesting dynamic of kind of kind of doing that hosting everybody Initially, there's a lot of trepidation But you sit down and say this is something I believe in I'm gonna open it up all the flaws of benefits This isn't about just having an immaculate event. God knows the houses There's things that needed to be worked and everything else. It's not about shielding my images about presenting Hey, this this is this is life down and dirty and you know But at the same time we're acknowledging the importance of this event this benchmark and essentially we're celebrating You know by hosting these guys over and it was a great way to bond and exchange value in kind No, I did open up the the chat to questions. So I'll start throwing those you guys play But before I do that I want to touch on look this will be kind of the final open point And then we'll let the guys, you know kind of steer where it is we go. So first I want to give a shout out to Where is it? Tower guy 70 77 he said I need to go but I wanted to say this you need to train your children for the world They will grow up in not the one that we did. I thought that was very insightful You got to prepare them for the reality. They're gonna be facing not the one that we went through things change We as fathers need to evolve Now the final point The way you do one thing is the way you do all things when you were talking about the spread You know the way Ryan when early when you're talking about writing the name and making sure you know How you do this is gonna be as close to perfection as possible that that transcends just that thing You know my son the other day was hanging out this friend and the he's walking by and said did you do this? He said yeah, you know, I was like, whoa, you know, I'm not your buddy You don't say yeah, you say yes, you know and he immediately fixed it It's one of those things where as long as you're consistent in everything you do we say yes We give each other respect no matter where you are no matter what you're doing whether you you're all in on the thing that you're doing So with your spread you do it with everything you have it's the best damn spread it could be You know, then you go to your school work You do the best schoolwork you can do if you're gonna take on a project like building something You're gonna build it to the very best. It doesn't have to be, you know, Socrates level architecture It just has to be your very best you put there's nothing left in the gas tank You put it all in the field, you know, and I think that that's a a lesson that a lot of people are going a lot of fathers Let me be very specific. I'm talking to you the fathers who are Possibly slipping and thinking good enough is good enough if you think ah, I raked most of the leaves the ones in the edges I don't got to worry about them or I mowed the lawn, but I didn't I didn't edge it You know, that's good enough your children are gonna live life that exact same way because how you did that It's how you're gonna do everything else in your life. It's good enough, you know And I don't think that's that's a proper mindset. We should be instilling in our children these days Well, I mean not yes, absolutely, but success is found in that extra 10% right? It's easy to do the 80 It's easy to do the 90. That's what everybody does But if you really want to excel then you've got to do the things that most people won't and most people won't rake under the bushes They'll rake around they'll rake the grass, but they're not getting under the bushes They're not getting on their hands and knees and pulling that stuff out of there, but you do that stuff You're gonna set yourself apart You know Hunter you're talking about It's not the thing. It's the spirit of the thing Right. It's not the it's not what you say. It's it's your MO It's your modus operandi like like who you are and that right there when we're talking about What can we give to our children as fathers earlier talking about consistency? Kind of blending it all in together. That's the way that you're gonna serve them the best Give them the best skill sets for the world that they're gonna go out into right is is when you're showing them a thing That you do stay consistent and you do stay with the spirit of who you are, right? Because inconsistencies will will cause you know those fluctuations We have this this big thing nowadays, and I'm not gonna write it off the act like I'm a psychiatrist Or I'm medically trained. I'm not so anybody that's listening. Don't take my words right now for medical advice Exactly But but what I see a lot or what we see a lot nowadays is the kids with the ADD or the ADHD Right and these different diagnoses and and I wonder how much of that is just kids that don't have consistency in their lives Kids that are able to be the pinball in the machine rather than to be directed down a lane Do you understand what I'm saying? So I feel that that with consistency and staying to the spirit of Who you want to be and and what you would like to instill in your kids is one of the best gives you can give them They'll remember it forever You think about you know being plugged in front of the screen, you know It's seven years old and like random saying you know the kids dictate the terms of the relationship in the in the house You know their brains are all over the place and if you foster that and you don't instill those boundaries Then of course your kids gonna be bounced off the wall in the classroom Nobody ever taught him to sit down and then to pay attention nobody forced to have some discipline and self restraint So now all of a sudden they're medicating and now he's jacked up for you know However long that he's got to pop pills and now it's messing up his wiring Or just to entertain himself right we live in this world where you can be entertained just instantaneously And how often like I remember when I was little on Saturday mornings We'd get up we'd get up before my my mom would get up and we'd watch some cartoons We'd have some breakfast then she'd get up. She'd say alright get on chores So we get changed we get our chores done and then she'd say okay go outside We'd go outside and right as the door closed. She would lock the screen door and Then for the first half an hour of being outside I'd say mom I got a pee and she'd say that's what nature's for mom I got to do this inside you can do it later tonight and for a half an hour I resist resist resist every Saturday. I'd resist until I realized okay Well, she's not giving in I'll go find something to do and me and my buddies would would climb up on rooftops and throw GI Joes off the rooftop with napkins as parachutes and we'd find ways to get in trouble and we'd fight and we do things that boys do and Then my mom would have to scream throughout the neighborhood and call all the moms in the neighborhood to figure out where we were at This is this is what I think a lot of kids are missing is that Go use your creativity go use your muscles find a way to entertain yourself Not behind a screen not behind the game not behind an iPad and and there's there's value to those things I'm not saying that but if we're medicating or escaping reality or helping our kids escape Through those devices It's a problem and then we got to hop them up because they never learned to make the connection between boredom and being creative problem and solution and and we have the kind of environment that we do now I Have a motto in the house that is if the Sun is out you were out and it's now to the point where Can I watch TV? You know or can I play a game? Is the Sun out? Yeah, they get up and go like I don't have to say it anymore. They just know like is the Sun out all right You're out Used to be when the street lights came back on that was what you brought your bike like home All right, I want to grab the first question this one is for you Ryan From Jeff Putnam of rugged legacy What would you say has been the most difficult decision you've had with your kids and how did you approach it? Man, I've been through a lot. I mean just just right off the bat. It's it's our move we moved across the country three weeks ago and We always felt like it was a good decision We felt like it was a prudent decision We're in the position to do it and felt like we could take some some calculated risk But the greatest factor was how my kids would adjust, you know, I'm pulling them away from their friends I'm pulling away from the things that they know the things are comfortable with There there was a lot of a lot of fear and uncertainty and doubt in their mind as they were leaving friends And and they were considering not knowing anybody out here and not getting along with people. So that was a real challenge But it was an open line of communication as well, you know, what what are you worried about? What are you excited about? What opportunities will present themselves? Hey, if if you need to make new friends How could we do that and we would jump online and we researched this area as soon as my oldest son found out What kind of animals were in the area and how many animals were on our property? He was all about it So we really opened up those lines of communication and I didn't judge, you know, the kids were afraid I didn't say, oh, you know, you don't need to worry about anything. Well, that's bullshit There's things you need to worry about and if you're worried about it, that's valid So let's let's work through that you're worried about not having any friends. I get that valid concern That's actually something on mine as well. So what can we do to ensure that that's not the case? And so they've been very involved in activities and They're they've been at a church camp this week and next week my other sons got a photography camp We got them involved in jujitsu These are all things that we talked about leading up to this and it's taken a lot of the sting off I won't say it's not there it is, you know My daughter the other night was crying because she missed one of her friends and so the sting is still there But these open lines of communication have really been valuable and we have these conversations around the dinner table, too You know, what was the best part of your day? It was the hardest part of your day What'd you learn? What are you gonna do tomorrow? These types of conversations really? Take some of the edge off and in difficult Difficult circumstances when they have to leave the things they know As a fellow now fellow New Englander, I think you made a great choice You know, I've only been here three weeks and it's beautiful now I don't know if I'll be singing the same tune in the middle of winter But we feel pretty good about it so far Excellent and now you brought up talking at dinner and one of the things I do is I was talking to Tanner Guzzi and he shared, you know at 21 the way he does the questions, you know And before bed, you know what they do where the guzzies all their whole mantra and it's incredible I think every family needs to ensure that you're having that moment in the day, you know What did you do today? What did you learn was the best party day? What was the worst, you know and those questions you're gonna learn so much about your kid You'll find out what they're learning in school. We'll find out what's going on with their relationships With friends, you'll find out, you know, if they're scared about something or something's bothering them There's there's so many opportunities that you can Better know your child and have a better relationship with your child if you have that moment though If you're not eating dinner together and everybody's sitting plugged in front of the TV or you know Two people are eating somebody's on their phone and somebody else is you know trying to show their face and work, you know Like you're never turning the outside world in and you have a family your family matters You need to get rid of the world and have family time. That's just for them I think every man here would agree that I Something was going on by family or their family. We would not be doing this right now that comes first that always comes first But if you're not putting your family I mean ahead of checking Facebook and scrolling if how many likes you got a new profile photo your priorities are out of whack And your children are you're never gonna know them and they're gonna grow up and you're gonna look back and be like man They grew up so fast now. They're gone. I wish I had more time. Why you have time now and you're not using it So really really evaluate your priorities there. The other thing I'd say on that too is if you're doing that There's always an expectation of contribution in our household Like if you're gonna be part of this household, you're gonna contribute and it's as simple as when we have these conversations at dinner It's easy for our kids at times when they're tired to say. Oh, I don't know. I didn't have a very good day wrong answer That's not a contribution to the discussion So if you need to think about it, we'll go around the table and we'll get to everybody else And we'll come back to you, but there's an expectation of contribution in our home And the more we uphold that that that expectation the less likely we have to address it So my daughter has become notorious for going. Oh, I don't know. Yep Everybody yeah, so my son like it was like three days into it like three days And she keeps going out of the water though and he's like what how do you not know what you did today? Just say something just make something up. He's like you always get to go Knife-handing her You know there was something I think the original question from from Jeff was was something about what the hardest decision was With the we're concerning our children and that we've had to make concerning our children and when you were talking about your move Ryan My hardest decision I ever had to make also concerned to move but mine was to escape Just a really really crazy ex who was my son's mom that was just like in this stocker Saw me having a new successful life with with a new beautiful wife And just could not handle it and and I mean it was like when so when I was on parole Working and had my place and doing whatever it was stuff like threatening to call the cops and saying I had guns You know just different different things like that now with my son being in her custody and me You know and not just not just her but other mitigating factors where I said, you know what I think I'm gonna do a move I think I'm gonna go to Northern, California It was a really really tough choice To have to detach myself from my boy Because a woman was like gonna cause some actual Danger or damage to my family. I Mean if I leave what happens now my now my new wife is is a single mom with with a new kid You know, I mean so it we have there's these choices and that was extremely difficult because I Didn't want to have to do that You know and and we're putting these in these Situations do I talk to my boy? Do I love my boy? And does he love me? Of course, you know we talked we but there was still this thing that happened that had to happen But it was uncomfortable for everyone and that was that was the roughest choice. I ever had to do concerning one of my kids All right, the next question is from bully the line and I'm pretty pumped about this one He recently found out that he's gonna be a father in 2020 any good books out there for first-time dads before anybody answers Congratulations, man. That is awesome. Yeah, definitely definitely congratulations. Yeah, congrats All right, so gentlemen are there any books that you go to or I've gone to that you found help you become a better father If you had a big one, I mean There is no book that will prepare you for yeah, I was about to say the same thing Yeah, it's you're gonna be reading stuff and it's not gonna be meaningful until you're in it Yeah, you know, I I don't know if there's anything fatherhood specific But there's so many great books out there on on how to improve yourself and you know what? You're gonna you're gonna be tempted and It's the right temptation, but you're gonna be tempted to Pour all of your heart and your energy and your resources into your son or daughter and into your your wife That that's a great temptation. I'm not saying that's wrong But you're gonna get a lot of advice too from people on how to raise him or her and what you should be doing and They the the counter to that advice or the thing that you won't hear I don't think a whole lot when it comes to being a new father is don't ever neglect yourself Don't ever neglect yourself Like if you give everything to your child and everything to your wife and you and you do that at the expense of yourself It's gonna create real problems. It did in my life My my wife and I went through a separation when my son was one years old and a lot of it was because I was throwing Myself into what I thought were were noble causes and noble ambitions and they were it was my work It was her it was him But I did that at the expense of myself and I really let myself go so as far as specific books I mean that there's so many books But what I'm what the point I'm making is that find things that will edify you that will uplift you that will allow You to continue to work on yourself And and take the advice as it comes but don't ever forget to make yourself a priority I'll piggyback off that one because I had the same response as you guys I was just not gonna say it cuz I don't want to influence anybody else's opinion So there are no books There's a lot of awesome blog posts a third of my blog is dedicated to fatherhood It's not just a plug It's just to say a lot of people have said a lot of cool things about a certain part of fatherhood But the greatest strength is speaking with other like-minded driven fathers Something like this panel if we if I were to sit down and ask them for advice on Something I was facing as a father that I couldn't find the answer to on my own or wanted some counsel That would serve me 1,000 times more than sitting and trying to find it in a book and I'm stuck to the author's Narration I'm within his but when you speak to somebody else's mind you can flesh it out You get the full picture of the thing that you're working on or that you're trying to chew through So I mean you're a new dad coming up, you know plenty of personalities accounts sites Individuals that are family focused jump on those start engaging with those men start start forming a relationship with them and When the time comes to where the child is arriving then it's go time, you know It's actual game time you get to apply all the things you've already learned you're pretty much prepared for I mean You're not gonna be entirely prepared for obviously, you know once a baby is there It's kind of like oh man like it's real like here. We go. Let's do this the sleepless nights You know helping the wife make sure she's motivated and you know healthy and able to recover There's a lot that goes into it But the best thing you can do is start forging that network now So when you're gassed and you're like man, I like I'm out of it Like I just need to sit and chill and do something besides talk baby. You've got those guys to follow them Hey, man, you know, how's this going? Have you worked out? Are you eating right? Make sure you get your rest and like Ryan just said are you taking care of yourself? You know, it's great to it's what men do we sacrifice, you know We take care of the ones we love but you can't self-sacrifice your way to happiness You know if you put everybody forward You're just gonna run out of value as a man And they're all gonna leave you behind because you gave all them all your value and you're worth nothing to them You you don't do anything. So, you know start forging those bonds, man And find men again that are that'll keep you accountable not ones that'll tell you it's all right that you're slacking off Yeah, I'll jump in here, too During the patriarch event there was a small portion of my speech where I gave and I talked about I Advocated about fathers taking responsibility for safeguarding and protecting their children and in this particular sense It dealt with not an external threat but an internal one in which your child soiled themselves And I'm amazed at the number of men who will sit down and say I don't do that I won't change my child's diaper and my my stance was you need to engage that vigorously And so one of the things that I did when I was trying, you know A very new father was I learned how not only how to change a diaper But why was that important and the issue is is that I'm caring for my child And so I developed the technical skills and I won't get into the technical detailing of it But one of the things I did is I developed a go bag and essentially it was very much like a medical kit It was based off kind of the the medical kits that we'd see in the military Where I had a bag already pre-set up for that particular mission and objective that I knew where everything was at I could go through the motions. I had every tool and resource that I would need in that bag But it wasn't just the bag and it wasn't changing the diaper. That was the task again It was the why and what mattered was is I had a distressed child who had soiled themselves That was looking for help and assistance that could not communicate that in any other way than crying And so the first thing you do is you don't treat the symptom you treat the the casualty the individual So part of that was to pick them up hold them touch them constantly being contact Look them in the eye and tell them. Hey, we've got this. We're gonna be okay. I daddy's here I'm gonna take care of you and you start doing that I'm doing that with an infant and it was interesting over the year and a half in which I would consistently sort of do this Is that I became the world's best diaper changer? I could do it with one almost with one hand I can talk and engage Touch you know touch and hold my child engage with the the child and you're engaging the individual not the actual diaper And it didn't matter how bad the thing was I was always prepared to make sure we could work it through And if it was a real hot mess, you could tell her who you got a real You know you really did a number on this and the the issue was it became something where I also knew that I wasn't just the only parent doing that it typically was my my spouse would actually end up doing most of the Change in the diaper, but when she was exhausted when she was really spent I knew I could jump in right then read the body language Take care of the baby do everything else and then essentially what I would do is because mom's spent make sure mom's being sit down Relax, you know Take care of her. I've got this. She knew I did and then immediately take the child I'd prop her up on my shoulders and in her and I together the child Would go and do one or two things low-hanging fruit that weren't being done right then, you know Pick small things up engage do the dishes. Whatever the hell it was because what's happening is you have a partner That's completely overwhelmed and so in an essence I'm taking care of my complete team when I'm doing this not just change in a diaper Not just caring for my child my baby But also my partner and making sure that they know that they have that resources that you know for full impact and be able to do that and and it became kind of a touchstone to have that bag to the point that You know, Mary Francis would not use her own bag regardless of how I set it up She would actually go to mine because it had you know quote special properties that the baby was more calm when she saw That bag mom carrying them her own And it became linked and the the proudest moment of my life was when my child came to me having soil You know, this is when she's walking now and she would kind of signal that that she soiled herself And she was choosing dad when mom was right next to us and I sat down and you just sit and go Oh, you know and and I know it killed my partner You know because babies choosing dad in that case were normally its mom during the caring nurturing But it was when my role is to provide and protect With my child and to cultivate that relationship so that when she knows like the little girl with the jar She knows where to go and she needs help and it's not just that I'm competing with mom It's obviously mom and dad But I wanted to make sure that my daughter knew that and that was the first sure Sure-ass sign that I was getting that right and it will be a moment in my life. I will never forget You got to hang on to those men Inflate that what we're doing is the right thing, but there are there are signs along the way little check Maybe something's sticking All right next question and I'm gonna I'm gonna jump on this one quick because this is near and dear to my heart Opinion what is your opinion? This is from diesel on pushing children for excellence per age group? Specifically young kids. When is it domineering and when you're being a good dad? So when I look at when I read that I read that as coaching, you know You might mean it with schooling you might mean it with home life and other things But I viewed that I'm gonna take the coaching angle on it You see a lot of coaches who are stomping the feet yelling at kids being demeaning now a little humble brag We just won our championship so back-to-back titles. What's up now those boys though? They play the most disciplined baseball and we are the most disciplined team because I treat them with respect When it comes to pushing the kids too hard when you start living vicariously When you start getting mad at the kid for not winning the game so you could get the props None of this is about you when you when you're raising that kid and you want them to do better You push them to the point where you see that that they're they're hitting that point of like actual stress They're hitting the point where they're starting to fracture a little and then you pull Parenting is a push-and-pull game. Sometimes you do write a kid too hard. Hey, you should have done this You know why not and they're like you're not realizing. They're just kids They just couldn't or you know you relax too much and you're realizing, you know You keep getting bees in school, you know why like well you never force me to get a is you never push them to go harder You never studied with them so the balance between a dominant father or a dominant coach and a domineering father or a Domineering coach is the intention in which you're pushing them Are you pushing them for you to feel glory or you're pushing them because you know There's more in their tank that they can give you You know hunter you bring up a good point that there is a balance And I think any man would be a liar if they said oh, I've called it right every interaction I've ever had with my kid. No, there's been plenty of times so where we've been like man I wish I would have done that better. I wish I would have said that better I wish I could have maybe presented that in a better way, right and and and it's it's a learning game for us as well Just as much as it is for them, right? But there is this fulcrum point. I for me I think the fulcrum point it like you're saying that that fracture. It's like the trauma Condition right so I'll give you a I'll give you an example I mentioned earlier that that my my grandparents especially in particular my my dad's dad We're very hands-on kind of told you once old-school type people He owned an aviation business and there were these special brushes that we had to use to clean the planes with because they the the actual windows aren't aren't glass they're a type of Plexiglass and it'll scratch it if you use regular so you have to use all the special cleaning equipment He said don't let those bristles touch the ground Right and sure enough about half an hour into it. I got careless man and that thing fell over and touched the ground, right? He came over saw it and I said oh gee Grandpa's bow and he hit me with that broom right upside my shoulder But it was enough to knock me down on my 14 year old self down on the ground bring a tear to my eye Said don't let the bristles touch the ground again Now I never let those bristles touch the ground again, but the point being is there was a there was a this this this Moment of trauma Okay, you know the word now. I'm like getting beat with a broom right to where We could have done that better, right? So I think that when like you're talking vicariously in the fracture when we're bringing it to the point So where we're gonna traumatic it like like traumatized Children or bring something that you wouldn't you gotta you gotta stop you gotta you gotta assess to where things are gonna be done The right way because you don't want to do something just like you want them to remember the good of you all their lives You don't want them to remember just bad thoughts about you all their lives either Bob you bring up a you bring up a really good point I think we get so wrapped up in what is the immediate result You know like with what you're saying and then Hunter with what you were saying with regard to coaching I coached you and sometimes we look at it and think that the ultimate result is is is the proof, right? We if we win the game then we did it right the problem with that is that the game is not really the game The ad bat is not the game. The game is not the season. All right, so you may have won the game He may have got you not to drop the broom on the ground but ultimately He lost a little bit of potentially respect Some credibility some authority he undermined himself and I'm not pointing it at him without pointing it at me too I've done that as well So I don't I don't care about the game like how can we win the season? I don't care about the season How can we win the tournament? I don't care about the tournament. How can I raise my kids to be self-sufficient adults? I don't care about that How can I raise them so that they can go raise their own kids? We look at it these little like micro moments and think that if I can produce the right result now Then I win and we fail a lot of the times I know I do to look at it in the grand perspective of things and think about how I Engage with this child after one strikeout or after one Little misstep where a kid drops a broom on the ground, which is really not that big of a deal, right? We got to look at it in a broader perspective when we're considering the results and the ramifications of the way we're treating our kids And they say what we do echoes an eternity They're gonna carry this the way we raise our kids is the way they raise theirs, you know So let's make sure we do the best we can and set them up with a solid foundation And from there they can build even higher and even higher and you know your great-grandkids are doing better than your kids They're doing way better than you know, there's nothing I would also say it's okay to To say you're sorry I think that's one thing we have a tendency of not doing is We recognize when we mess up like how many of us even just us here and the guys on the call who have had You know a few sleepless nights because they screwed something up and yet they just blow it and brush it off It's like just go apologize Show some humility to one of your children and say you know what and I've had this conversation with my oldest boy I said, you know What you the way that you performed yesterday wasn't up to par But the way I performed also wasn't up to par and here's where I failed you and here's where I messed up And here's what I'm committing to doing differently next time Like it's we're human we mess up But if you don't admit that and don't show your children how to handle situations when you screw up Man, we're missing a powerful powerful moment to teach them how to respond to their own Screw ups and mess ups in life Ryan I've had those same moments with my daughter to where I said look you messed up here And this wasn't right, but you know what the way that I said this or you know by me that wasn't right either And I just want you to know that same kind of conversations and you got to be able like you said this Just not only it's not just for the immediate thing of saying sorry and doing right by your kid. It's for the grand Schema things the larger picture like you were talking about to show them how to be to like once again Like we were talking earlier the spirit of the thing to like give them that spirit You know show them what it is Now I'm gonna put the final question out there and we'll wrap this thing up What are some meaningful family traditions that you pass down to your family or new traditions that you started doing with your family? Like that I like that they included new traditions because there are some things I do that my family didn't do growing up, but I'm like we should totally do this so Yeah one thing that that we do that that I really like is every morning we get up We read scriptures together and and I think a lot of families do that I don't think that's that's specifically unique or anything But one thing we do after scripture study and after our family prayer is we do a family meeting And that family meeting I was just gonna say that yeah, I mean it's so powerful and in that meeting I'm not saying an hour-long meeting. I'm saying five to ten minutes. All right, hon What are you got going on today? Here's what I've got going on I've got jiu-jitsu and then I've got this call at eight o'clock tonight that I've got to be on kids You you've got this camp or this class and we just use five or ten minutes So everybody knows all the little workings and intricacies and where people will be throughout the day And it just lets us get on the same page So there's no confusion about what's going on and then it's a ready break and we get to our thing So that's that's one little ritual that has actually been very very Productive and helpful in our life. Yeah, I'll second that one right off the bat I I do it on a regular basis with me and my partner and I'll literally call it a business meeting You know so that they know that this isn't just something in shorthand What's taking place is family business and this is we're treating it like business and it demands the attention and respect and execution on elements of that conversation whatever come out of it and it's not just me dictating it's a Give-and-take back-and-forth what's going on? What are the plans? What are the objectives? What can I see process and be done and hold everybody else accountable to include myself and so that every there's no Misunderstanding the expectations are clear and concise and everybody's aware of it You know a few years ago. Well, no, it's only 2017 in 2017. I bought a new travel trailer and and you know, it's just my wife and my daughter and And and we started taking vacations in this in this trailer started bringing up places and the cool thing about RVing and doing That is it's there's a whole process once you get somewhere You got to pack it up you got to unhook then you got to hook other stuff up, right? And there's all these little opportunities So I said like for example when I when I'd either disconnect or connect the ball my daughter would be the one calling it This was prior to me getting the tundra and now there's just a video camera there That just shows me right but you know, I'd have her do these little things so where I was like, okay, dad You're good up stop, you know, and and it creates this involvement, you know with my wife going and Dumping the tanks or with it to where it's like we're working as a team And as a unit and and those kind of feelings to me are when you get this real cool sense of pride to where you're like Oh, yeah, they get it like we're working together as one. This is awesome When it comes to family traditions and new traditions, you know Every holiday every season. We've got a thing we do, you know, whether it's a movie we watch So it's like Muppets Christmas Carol for Christmas, you know for New Year's I let the kids stay up You know, it's one of the things I let them see the ball drop and like I know they're my kids are nine and six They probably shouldn't be up at midnight, but it's hey, I never know if I'm gonna make it to the next year I want to bring this one in with my kids, you know, but we break the rules sometimes sometimes breaking the rules Is the tradition, you know, we'll we'll do that thing Sitting down and having a meal together every day That is that is Almost a non-negotiable very rarely are we gonna go unless like something's going on Maybe we have company and we're all gonna go out and do something but for the most part every single day We are sitting down and having a discussion over our meal together and there's no phones There's none of that. That's not even considered, you know, and I've got a lot going on, you know And I put my phone away so there's no excuse for anybody to have their phone Now when it comes to interactions, we do family meetings too, even the Ryan stole my juice So the family meeting get everybody together, you know, get them all on the same page, you know And then if something's going on, maybe something happens and you want to call family meeting. Hey guys E-break something change we got a pivot shift gears because that happened. Let's dial it in and That one of the new things or a new thing we do is every night before bed, you know I still I still say good night to them. We we will sit We'll have some reading time the ball read together, you know, and it's it's whatever, you know If they want to read about horses or they want to read about, you know My son's reading city members or something like that, you know, I'm sitting there reading some jocco It is what it is, you know, you just grab your thing and just you spend time together without doing anything together You're all in your own little world, but you're together and having the family together is one of the strongest Bond you can have because the family will always look back on their life as being with their family You did things together and that's what they'll do with one another When they have their family, they'll they'll bring them together and most importantly as they grow and they get older and Uh another father who's going to 31 dtm right now kind of shared this with me They'll want to hang out with you when they leave the house. They'll come back home They'll want to spend time with you. They're not going to forget about you and kick you to the curb I've got my own life to live see you later dad like no, they'll want to hey dad You know stopping in come to see you, you know when you're older and kids are out of the house You know, there are some people who look forward to that I I don't at all like every day. I'm like man my kids getting they don't need me as much And like the day they leave and I'm gonna be like, oh this sucks Like when they go to bed, I'm like, man, I kind of don't want them to go to bed, you know Like I would like to sit and talk to them some more. You know, I like my kids so You build it to the point where you enjoy your family And that in itself is one of the strongest traditions that people should bring into their lives is actually having a good time together All right, that's funny that that you say that about like like not wanting to let them go because I get up really early in the morning. So I I'll get up anywhere from three To be usually between like three and four thirty and and I'll see my daughter sleeping And it's the same thing to where I'm almost like I should just get her up right now and we can do breakfast together. So I'm like, no, man It's four thirty in the morning. See don't need to be up yet. But it's that same time of feeling It's like hey my little buddy, let's get her up, you know And and that's totally relatable as a as especially a good father. So I get where you're coming from with that All right, it is nine thirty five No more So we're going to wrap this one up sock Where can everyone find you if they want to learn some more I talk fatherhood with you Yeah, you know to be honest, I'm probably most prevalent anymore on twitter I you can find my blog at many and up smart.com Uh, it there's kind of a little bit of defunct because it's been so much emphasis put on the video productions associated with 21 convention in this 21 studios So that there's a tremendous amount of content there But you know, typically, uh, you'll start to see me more on social media and then I also have a youtube account Where i'm just now starting to produce some video content That that's going up very limited Just getting into that game and then getting that's going to be at many youtube at many and up smart Bobby People want to talk fatherhood new dads. Where can they find? Yes? So same thing. Uh, we have we have the twitter Feed, which is kind of my prominent social media area even though I am on instagram and both of those are at real bobby dino There's also bobby dino.com where you can read the different blog articles that I have up we We also have the the nonprofit that's that's starting up Although the website is still under construction that'll be coming but if you want to uh reach us I'm one of those people that where my dms are always open Uh, you can you're always free to drop a line or a question and uh, reach out Use this social media platform. What it's meant for to to connect to others Awesome, ryan. Thank you for joining us. We're good. No, it's been great. Yeah as far as connecting with me Um twitter and instagram is where I'm most active both at ryan mickler. My last name is m i c h l e r And the podcast that's probably the best place is the podcast just search for order of man Wherever you listen to podcasts, you'll find our I don't know 450 or probably nearly 500 episodes now. So check it out That's awesome. All right. I'll hunt you drew It's a closest one out. I want to remind you of something You know Talking fatherhood is not as glamorous or exciting as talking about money It's not as glamorous or exciting as talking about sex when you look at the numbers You know the patriarchs is never going to get the the same views as the other channels talking about that But I promise you the red man group patriarchs is carrying the biggest fucking club of the internet Because we're the ones that are leading to intergenerational change We're the ones that are leading to to life changing moments being shared between parents and their children That's going to lead to a future that's going to be better because of what it is We're discussing here So when you look at the channel when you look at what it is we're doing if this is something you support Look at the links below support the channel support the men that are constantly on here Dedicating time to you away from their families to help raise the standards of all families Thank you for tuning in