 Hello everyone, I'm Jonathan Erkenbrock. I have the pleasure to introduce my colleagues in the School of Law this evening, and I'm really pleased that you joined us. I think this is going to be really interesting. I'm going to share my PowerPoint with you now. And to help us to talk a little bit more about the School of Law and its particular characteristics because I'm very excited about this law school that I work with. It's an extremely close knit community. I have a deep knowledge of the study of Asian and African legal systems. I know that's something that many schools may say but in fact we've been doing this and focusing specifically on Asia and Africa for the duration of our incorporation as a university. We focus on China, Africa, South and Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and our global South expertise provides a kind of perspective that makes sense of not merely the global South, but of the world as we know it. It's not merely area expertise that we bring to the table, but in fact it's a methodology, a way of seeing the world and of addressing the most pressing problems. We have particular expertise in human rights, environmental crises, equality, the role of multinational corporations, trade, finance and the global economy, or simply the rule of law and justice. And the methodologies that we employ are hugely important. We deal with doctrinal studies. Of course, black letter law is fundamental to understanding municipal legal systems. We employ critical legal studies, regional studies, historical interpretation, interdisciplinary work is very much an emphasis as a socio legal methodology. We have particular strengths in international law, transnational law, human rights, commercial law, environmental law, and socio legal method. Now, you know, beyond our expertise I think it's really crucial that you have a sense of the culture it's so as because the culture is a big part of what I think is a really attractive part of studies. It sets the tone for your studies. It's the intellectual environment in which you will study, you will learn, you'll engage in conversations with your peers and those conversations along with conversations with your lecturers are equally important means of learning. And so I'd like to really focus on the fact that this is an institution which challenges convention. I do that not merely culturally, but this is really an embodiment of our research focus, and that research find its finds its way into our teaching. So I consider this to be a very progressive institution I think that we, we show that through our emphasis and our leading emphasis amongst universities on decolonizing the curriculum. We've had a campaign knows the so as justice for cleaners campaign in which we've ended outsourcing as a university. These are two aspects that I think are important but but more fundamentally, we are aware of privilege structural inequality rooted in class, race, gender and income. And these this awareness is embodied in the kinds of discussions that we have amongst ourselves amongst students. And these are also of course aspects of what we're interested in in researching as academic lawyers and and some as practicing lawyers as well practice in these areas. So a student body is really passionate and politically active. I did my PhD at so as I've been here for quite some time. And I can assure you that this is one of the most cosmopolitan student bodies that I think you'll ever have the privilege of experiencing. It's not merely international in terms of the North Atlantic. It's not really Europeans that you're going to meet or North Americans. In fact, you're going to meet people from those parts of the world that we in fact study we study parts of the world and people from those parts of the world come to sell us to learn because of our expertise and I think that that's really distinctive. And last but not least the student societies are extremely active at so as so that there's a real idealism and political activism amongst so as students that I think really distinguishes it as an institution. I've often felt that when I've gone out into the courtyard and and, you know, interacted with students that you're experiencing such a colorful panoply of life such a colorful representation of the world that I think is just really valuable. Well, I'd like to just give you a very quick run through of what we do in terms of taught master's degrees. We do a general LLM and we focus on environmental and sustainable development. We do international commercial law we do human rights conflict and justice. We do national law, Islamic law, one of the very few law schools that teaches Islamic law as a family, a system of law in a law school, law and gender law development and globalization. I think you, you can see that we have a very strong emphasis on the issues that relate to the global south and of course have applicability worldwide. MA degrees are generally geared towards students without a law degree. The MRes is a research oriented master's degree and a PG certificate program is a new one term master's taught program in which you can get a taste for what we offer it so as to get a certificate from having done so. And there we offer environmental law, human rights, international law, Islamic law, a general legal studies program, as well as those two specialized programs. So I come to the part of the evening that I know you've come to us for and this is the lectures, the, the tasters of the type of lecturing that we do it so as and, and I have the privilege of introducing to you to very talented colleagues. And the first is Dr Michelle Staggs Kelso. She's a lecturer in international law since 2018 and she studied in Australia with flying colors and did a master's in public international law at the LSE and finally got her PhD from Nottingham. And she's had considerable experience in the human rights field. Most recently she was deputy director for the Human Rights Resource Center for ASEAN, and a human rights officer for the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights various she's occupied various leadership positions with NGOs, where she applied research regarding Southeast Asia and West Africa. And this evening, she is going to talk to us about her expertise, and that is specifically business and human rights and that's a module that she teaches at SOAS, and the intersection between human rights, corporate governance and corporate social responsibility. So if I turn things over to you, over to Michelle rather, I'm going to introduce really the big gun of the evening. And that is Professor Mashud Badarin. Professor Badarin has been with us since 2007. He was the head of the law school. From 2009 to 2012. He has published widely in the fields of Islamic law, human rights, international law, and law and development in Africa. His most recent publication was Islamic law, a very short introduction, which, if you know Islamic law is quite a feat. He published a very important monograph on international human rights and Islamic law, both of those works are published by the very prestigious Oxford University Press. He's been appointed as an independent expert on the situation of human rights in the Sudan by the Human Rights Council in the 19th century session on in March 2012. He did his LLB in Nigeria, and he did his LLM and PhD at Nottingham. He's a barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Nigeria. And this evening he will also provide a taster lecture on a module that he teaches here at SOAS and that is law and development in Africa. So SOAS is a very special place. I hope that gives you somewhat of a breadth of perspective about what the law school is all about. Thanks very much for your attention. Michelle, I turn it over to you. This evening's taster lectures. I too, I'm going to share my slides, but just to briefly introduce myself, though I don't have to say much thanks to Jonathan. As he mentioned, my teacher at the School of Law and the master's program I teach here is business and human rights and the global economy, which is both a theoretical component and has a clinical component in which students are encouraged and get the opportunity to work with practitioners in the field. But tonight I really want to look at just one of the strands of the discussions that form part of my class. And to give you a sense of what it would be like to come and study with us. I'm really looking at in the course how we understand the turn towards business and human rights at the start of the new millennium, and why this field of academic inquiry, policy development and legal practice emerged in the aftermath of the global financial crisis in 2008. In particular, I'm wondering how the field of business and human rights might change the way in which international lawyers theorize and practice international human rights law in the 21st century. But those are the central questions I'm grappling with and that will be further discussed in a forthcoming book on the work with the working title rights incorporated that looks really at the the history of the emergence of the movement tracing it back to the new international economic order in the 1970s and looking at how the movement essentially de-radicalizes the demands of the global south at the time and becomes what is essentially a much more sanitized version of what the global south was asking for. But one of the things that I'm grappling with the moment and that I thought I should share with you and I'd love to get your thoughts and feedback on is really this notion of corporate wokeness and whether or not there is a difference in which the corporation as we understand it in the 21st century is shifting in its function from being solely about ensuring profits for shareholders to in effect engaging in the rights and interests of stakeholders, a new stakeholder capitalism, which has been showcased at Davos, which of course in some ways the World Economic Economic Forum is kind of the pinnacle of economic discussions in the international sphere in the last couple of years. And I'm grappling with what business and human rights and its interaction with stakeholder capitalism is really doing to our understanding, both of the corporation and of human rights. But first of all, to situate us to put us in a context, I wanted to start by showing you here, both the front page of a report issued by the UNCTAD, the United Nations Commission on Trade and Development, just last year in 2000, October 2020, and juxtaposing that within the same month as a lead story on the front page of newspapers about the extent to which tech companies are now amassing staggering profits after the aftermath of COVID-19. So, as you can see that the title of the of the article there is as COVID-19 surges the world's biggest tech companies report staggering profits. At the same time in that UNCTAD report, what they say is among developing countries, the pandemic on poverty rates is expected to be severe, particularly in Africa. And LDCs, because of their LDCs, sorry, are lowest developed countries or least developed countries, because of their high vulnerability and limited capacity to adjust and respond to shocks are in effect the most vulnerable. Africa accounts for about 13% of the global population, but is expected to account for over 50% of global extreme poverty in 2020. The lack of social protection and labour programs in these economies makes it challenging to cushion the impact on vulnerable groups. So, this is the context in which the discussion on business and human rights is operating. And I raise it here because business and human rights is a global movement seeks to respond to this by arguing that transnational corporations should continue to put front and centre those most vulnerable to corporate human rights abuse principle 24 of the United Nations guiding principles on human rights, which were unanimously endorsed by the Human Rights Council in 2011, ostensibly states that that is the purpose of the guiding principles. And just to give you a brief overview of what the guiding principles are. They're essentially a set of 31 principles that were agreed by the Human Rights Council, the primary human rights body of the United Nations in 2011. And I've got here, John Ruggie is missing. Professor John Ruggie and Gerald Pashew and Caroline Reese, the kind of dream team of those who drafted the guiding principles. John Ruggie is currently a professor at Harvard, Caroline Reese works as president of shift and non governmental organization and Gerald Pashew represents 21 multinational corporations who are committed to respecting human rights. And what the guiding principles say they do and what the movement which has come out of the guiding principles attempts to do is to prevent corporate human rights abuses from occurring through a three pillar system in which the state has the duty to protect human rights and obligation of conduct to ensure that human rights institutionalized and internalized in all their legislation and corporations have a responsibility to respect human rights, in other words to do no harm and both together ensure access to remedies for victims. But the question that puzzles me or that I continue to ask myself is, to what extent should we think that the, the motivation and the mandate behind the guiding principles and the stories which those who operate in the business and human rights movement are actually able to achieve this rather lofty goal. And I think that there are three ways in which we can think about the guiding principles and business and human rights and the narratives that the global movement tells itself that give us some insight as to what we can anticipate and expect from the movement in the next years. I suppose, when I talk about narratives what I'm really thinking about is the way in which the movement itself animates the stories that it tells itself about its foundations about its purpose and about what it is members of the movement stand for. And although some might cynically say well, you know business and human rights, the corporation is always going to be able, they can never be anything good about the corporation. I think what we need to remind ourselves is that the only way to fully understand the manner in which the movement is, is, is attempting to, to create social change is to see it first and foremost on its own terms before we then critique what it is it sits to do. So one way in which we can think through what the narrative is that animates business and human rights is really to see it as another form of work capitalism. And I understand and I'm very aware that in using the term work I'm of course co-opting a narrative which has been utilized by black persons and peoples to to signal and to push for social emancipation. And many have said that the fact that corporations are now talking about work capitalism capitalism is an effect to the detriment of that initial and original narrative. But let's think first through how the corporations themselves conceive of this role. And I'm drawing here from the work of Jennifer fun amongst others who talk about work capital in a series of articles recently drafted touching in particular on this issue. I think the with with respect to work, the role of the transnational corporation and business enterprises in the 21st century, as seen as embodying that of a natural person in the legal person of the corporation. In other words, the corporation becomes in and of itself a mode which is funding and supporting social causes. And this narrative shifts the role of the corporation from maximizing profits as I mentioned of its shareholders to maximizing its value for stakeholders. The classic view of the corporation embodied in conservative economist Milton Friedman's view of 1970 was that the one and only social responsibility of business was to use its resources to engage in activities designed to increase its profits. Stakeholder theory on the other hand assumes that corporations require a social license to operate with large and challenges the corporations to broaden their role in society and enlarge their obligations beyond the bottom line. The problem I think with this narrative is that it assumes business and human rights can intersect with other social movements in a manner that remains value neutral and objective with regard to the central underpinnings of a system that has made its wealth through developing and perpetuating racial inequality amongst other forms of inequality, most notably gender sexuality and ability or ableism. In their recent book Stay Woke, a People's Guide to Making Black Lives Matter, to Harmalopes Bunyasi and Candiceworth Smith, analyse how the original accumulation of capitalism using industry in the West came through the extraction of wealth from colonies, piracy and the slave trade. And according to Bunyasi and Smith, the US state apparatus was created to facilitate the expansion and entrenchment of institutional racism in both slave and non-slave holding states at the time. The 14th Amendment of the US Constitution was passed at the end of the Civil War to give equal rights to black people. However, as Howard Zinn has shown through his people's history of the United States, despite the amendment being passed to prevent the various states to take away life, liberty and property from African Americans at the time, black people today, between 1890 and 1910, there were 307 cases brought to the US courts and 288 of these cases were in fact brought by corporations claiming legal personhood and only 19 of which were brought by black Americans. So in other words, judges applied these rights to capital and property, stripping them from people. So if we know this about the narratives that inform the capitalist system, the question becomes whether or not engaging in business and human rights as a narrative, as a work narrative in effect detracts rather than ads or furthers the social emancipatory causes which corporations claim that they are going to go about undertaking through processes such as human rights to diligence and other forms of ensuring respect for human rights in their daily operations. And here I've got Coca Cola recently had a claim together we must in the aftermath of the horrendous acts of police brutality last year and made claims with respect to how it was going to institutionalize equality diversity and inclusion in the company itself. The question becomes whether or not we can really take seriously these claims, which leads me of course to my second narrative. The possibility that in effect this at the present moment, it's almost as though business and human rights is acting under the narrative guys of a comedic role. So in other words, not so much work as it is Joe. In other words, business and human rights forms a way in which we convert your signal to one another that in effect, we agree with human rights, and we care about human rights concerns, even although we continue to maintain our status as wealthy and affluent in various contexts. I buy my coffee from Starbucks, I can rest assured that there's fair trade in the coffee and that the employers that are being taken care of, even although the system is a whole, the relationality and systematicity of hope corporate human rights doesn't need to be questioned. So when we think about it in these terms, what business and human rights does is kind of create a panacea in which humanity can temporarily triumph over the world. And the different forces at play can be reconciled and harmonized through this act of ensuring that I'm responding to the, the, the grossly unfair circumstances in which many in the global south find themselves. And finally, and here I'm sorry I've just got a snapshot of Kofi and now I'm saying that at the World Economic Forum in 1999 that this would, in effect, the UN global compact would allow for a human face to the global market, and subsequently from the from from global compact in 1999, the guiding principles evolved from there. And finally, one final way I think we can think about it is neither to see it as quite so cynical as being a joke, nor so emancipatory as being being a work, but instead to see it as bespoke. So it's human rights becomes tailored to the business transaction itself. And this is what I really think based on my research of the archives of the, the UN from the 1970s till 2011 is essentially what the UN finally comes down on. The notion that in fact, what we can all that we can do is secure human rights one transaction as a time at a time. We need to embed shared social values into transnational corporations, and to do so pragmatically in all in other ways, in other words always to ensure what works for the transaction. And there are of course, limitations to the notion of pragmatism. Those of you who have who are familiar with pragmatic schools of thought from the turn of the last century will note that pragmatism as a school of philosophical thought, essentially prioritizes that which can be empirically defined which works in the in the particular frame of the demand or the discovery that's going to be determined. And I think what that does is essentially limit the extent to which human rights can play a part in securing any kind of pushback between the systemicity of human rights abuses. And what you have instead is that where there was an older view of the economy is being embedded in society. And here I've chosen a pasta Malam from, from Southeast Asia where I used to live and work, but we could also choose a market in the middle of Rome or or another market in another part of the world. But essentially what I'm showing you through this photo is this notion that transactions are part and parcel of everyday life, but it's life that gets prioritized. It's the other things going around the buying and selling of objects, or the commodification, commodification processes in question. This new economy this note new notion of embedded pragmatism instead sees social values embedded in a global economy in which we're all networked and transactional. So I think it very much individualizes us and secludes us from any notion of community and precludes certain ways of thinking through problem solving in the everyday and relies on theoretical processes that prioritize that which which is functional, utilitarian and which works over that which may take longer term thinking in order to bring to fruition. And I'd like to close then finally with a little exercise in which we all close our eyes just to give you a sense of what it is I'm talking about. I'll do it too. If you close your eyes with me now and just think of the first things that come into your head when I say these three words. Apple. Amazon. Shell. Okay, can open your eyes now. And the question is, did your images look like this. Or like this. And if it looked anything like the latter I think that's really what I'm getting at the extent to which we think through the world now in terms of corporate understandings and how that affects and influences for human rights futures. Thank you. I'll interject here. Masoud, would you like to give your presentation please. Thank you so much, Jonathan for the kind introduction you did for me earlier. And I just wanted to build on Michelle's very interesting perspectives on human rights and corporations. Now I'll just be giving you some snippets from one of the courses I teach that is law and development in Africa. Now if you search around to be able to see that I mean, I always say it's a unique course. It's only taught at source. You'll find law and development modules in many universities, but specifically law and development in Africa. You won't find it anywhere else and we created it in 2010 for a particular purpose. Now we know the question of, I mean, Africa's development has rightly so been on the international agenda for quite a while. And also many African countries are also trying to deal with that point, but at the beginning of this century, you know, the World Bank released a report in April 2000 titled, Can Africa Claim the 21st Century? That's the title of the report, Can Africa Claim the 21st Century? The report noted that, I mean, although there have been some developmental gains during the half part of the 1990s towards the end of the 20th century, it's still found out that Africa entered the 20th century, you know, as a poor, mostly colonized continent then, but yet it still faces enormous developmental challenges entering the 21st century. So it raised the bar and you found out that a lot of, I mean, academicians and also practitioners in development started looking much more carefully at the question of, I mean, development, particularly in relation to Africa. Now, the report indicated that, yes, Africa could claim the 21st century. Particularly, this would depend on Africa's ability, aided by its developmental partners to overcome the developmental traps that has actually kept it behind during the 20th century. Now it identified certain strategies, improving governance and resolving conflict, investing in people, increasing competitiveness, reducing aid dependence and things like that. But I mean, on my own studying of the report then, not very much was said about law. Everything, the concentration was on economics, economic development, economics, you know, and I started reflecting, thinking about this, that what is the role of law in all this? I mean, law should have a role in this, if we say, I mean, because, I mean, if you look at many of the traps, many of the courses of underdevelopment for Africa in the past, one would be able to be able to find out that I mean law had played a role in it. Now, so I started thinking around that. In the context that, I mean, the relationship between law and development is not new. There's a general perception of law and development. And if you look at it, I mean, the history of it, it had a longer history and also a shorter history. The longer history of law and development usually is taken back, I mean, quite fine to the 18th century, usually related to Adam Smith's discussion of the economic effect of mechanicalist legislation. I mean, and the shorter discussion of it is in relation to the effort, you know, headed, I mean, spearheaded by the United States during the 1950s in order to try to promote the rule of law in the global south in developing countries in that perspective. Now, but if you look at all those perspectives in relation to general law and development discourse, it doesn't focus specifically on Africa. There's no section of it. It's very theoretical. And I thought, perhaps, I mean, there's a need to look at this specifically in relation to Africa. It took me some time, I mean, over six years to look at materials and I found that there wasn't any material specifically talking about law and development in Africa. And I thought so should really be focusing in that in that perspective. And when we look at it really certainly law should law should law has or should have a road to play in relation to development is an important tool of social engineering. And, but when one looks at it from the context of Africa, it should not only be, I mean, from the context of liberal legalism, or, I mean, in neoliberal perspectives, I mean, just transplanting, you know, the traditional law and development, I mean, connotations and just transplanting it into Africa. Now it's very important. I mean, for one to be able to know what to do in this perspective, I thought personally there's a need to look back and see what has actually caused the developmental tragedies of Africa over time. The one also needs to contextualize what we mean by development and contextualize what we mean by law. So I'll look at these three perspectives, I mean, in a little bit. When we look at, I mean, a development contextualizing it a lot of the time, you find out that I mean, in general law and development context, development is contextualize economically GDPs, you know, and up till now we look at in the context of GDPs. And many African countries are still measured from that perspective. But I mean, development should not actually be seen only from that perspective. Because you find, I mean, many some African countries are doing well now as the numbers indicate Botswana, even Congo, you find the GDP some African countries are said to be, you know, I mean, the highest developing countries in relation to their GDP is growing up to the lowest and 7%. But if you look at it critically, you find out that these gains actually does not filter to the grassroots. You don't see you don't see the effects of it in relation to the, I mean, the poor people on the ground and things like that. Therefore development, I thought development should be contextualized when we look at law and development in Africa. Therefore, it should be seen in the context of human development. You know, when we talk about development, we look at it in the context of human development first. And it is in the area of human development, particularly that it interjects with some of the issues being raised by Michelle. Now, when we talk about human development and we are talking about issues in relation to, I mean, relating to human rights and development that empowering the individual. Looking at development, for example, I mean, we look at it from two perspectives from the basic needs approach when you look at human rights and the basic needs approach, I mean the basic needs of individuals on the ground. I mean, this should be factors to show whether an African country is developing or not, not only in relation to GDPs. Then the second point would be from the human rights approach to development, you know, which actually sets a minimum sort of, I mean, a base ground for what people should respect. And part of it is also, I mean, we normally look at forming elements in relation to human development, human rights generally, then we look at women rights and empowerment, that empowerment of women in Africa, because women I mean play a very, very significant role in development. I mean, anyway, so we need to look at it also from that then education and capacity building. And when we talk about human development, education plays an important role, then the third one is human security. A lot of the time, I mean nation states, we talk about state security. I mean, when human rights are violated, when corporations don't do what they need to do, a lot of the time the state is bothered about, you know, its own security. And also, I mean, watching the borders. But the argument relation to human security is if human development is prioritized, I mean, many of those things that leads to state failures. You know, that's I mean, actually threatens state security. If human security is looked after, you know, basic health requirements, you know, basic education, employment, you know, the threats against state security will be minimized. So especially in relation to African countries. So we look at the role of law, how can law actually be used to facilitate, you know, the enjoyment of human rights, women empowerment, education, capacity building and then human security. And the third one is socio-political development. Now, socio-political development, I mean, relates to, I mean, governance, you know, good governance on the ground, I mean, constitutionalism, rule of law, then resource control. If you look at Africa, a lot of, I mean, the conflicts, I mean, happening on the ground relates to management of resources, I mean, resource control, underground resource control, conflict and development in Africa. Michelle was talking about, I mean, when we talk about socio-political development, the third point is corporate social responsibility. I mean, the corporations play a very big role in socio-political development and we do discuss quite a lot of interesting things. I mean, see us as a social, I mean, corporate social responsibility is usually seen as a voluntary trend for corporations to be able to make input into their communities into the society. I mean, and there are a lot of materials on actually arguing, can this be made an obligatory requirement on corporations in relation to, I mean, their acts on the ground. Then the fourth one is civil society engagement. Civil society plays a very important role in socio-political development. So we look at how law, you know, how law ought to regulate this and actually what is happening on ground in Africa. The third then comes to economic development. Economic development is important. Now we talk about, I'm going to talk about human development, socio-political development, you need some sort of economic development to be able to do all these things. Now, economic development, we look at trade and development in Africa, technological innovations, economic and financial regulation, then, you know, corruption, particularly in relation to regulation of corruption. Now, I mean, looking at it now, we contextualize this within, I mean, the courses of underdevelopment themselves and the courses of under development, if you look at to learn from it, you know, could be external or internal. In relation to Africa externally, you know, identify, one can identify two main external courses, and that is the impact of colonial legacies. I mean, if you, I mean, African countries are not monolithic, but there are certain factors that unify all of them in relation to the underdevelopment. And these are some of these four, I mean, two external, two internal. The external one is, as I said, impact of colonial legacies. I mean, there are many writings on this, you know, colonialism changed the faith of Africa forever. Now, it changed because I mean, the trajectory, the argument is, well, perhaps maybe the trajectory, maybe if not for colonialism, things could have been worse. We don't know, but we know that it is colonialism that has actually pushed it into where it is now in relation to this. And we can see, we can look at a lot of materials in that perspective and how law has played a role. Now, if you look at, I mean, during the terms of colonial occupation of many of African countries, I mean, law played a role. And there are documentations to that regard. Many of the African colonies were seeded by treaties. You know, they were seeded by treaties. I mean, law was used to legalize those occupations. You know, now if one says that, well, that was a deliberate colonial initiative, then it shows that actually law can be used deliberately to achieve certain ends. If it was not a deliberate colonial feature, then it means that law should be used consciously in order to avoid unintended consequences of not using it properly. So it's very essential. I mean, it gives us, I mean, if you look at South Africa, for example, apartheid was legalized by law. I mean, so law can play a role in relation to, I mean, and that is in relation to using law consciously. That is one important fact in relation to law development. African countries need to use law consciously in order to. Then the second external factor is the impact of international policies. You know, many of it, I mean, Michelle have indicated, although, I mean, an African woman in Nigeria and head to the World Trade Organization now, you know, I mean, it's perhaps we will see what will happen as her first visit has been to the country in Nigeria and African country in Nigeria. But if you look at, I mean, I mean, initiatives like I mean structural adjustment programs of the IMF for African countries and created a lot of problem relation to development. So an impact of international policies is also an external factor which we look into and see how law on the ground can change that. Now internal factors, we look at after colonization, colonization went away 60, 50 years ago, but yet, Africa still grapples with development. Internally, this the impact of poor leadership, poor governors, you know, you find out, I mean, this has been the bane of many, I mean, under development students in African countries. Then the second internal factor is, I mean, the impact of negative cultural and religious practices, negative cultural practices on the ground. And there are so many of them and we do have a look at this and also engage with them. Now, I mean, due to time, I mean, we, we, we look, we look at different African countries in relation to practice. You know, we need to look at a lot of African countries relation to practice. If you look at the theoretical connotations discussed of, I mean, traditional law and development studies, you find out that the theories usually propose for African countries. I mean, circles around what the so-called modernization theory that is African countries need to modernize as Western countries they have to learn from the, you know, move from the traditional societies to modern societies following, you know, I mean, the, the Western path. And this usually leads to the dependency theory whereby, therefore, African countries have to depend on, you know, the Western countries in order to be able to follow and do whatever. And we critique this a lot. And based on that, you know, I mean, based on materials, primary materials, I mean, resolutions of even the General Assembly. I mean, the United Nations, I mean, I propose the concept of, I mean, the self-reliance theory. African needs to address this need for a self-reliance theory. Not for Africa to stand alone, I mean, to be on its own known. The self-reliance theory, I categorize it into, I mean, individual self-reliance and collective self-reliance. That's African countries who are individually should look within to be able to, in particular, in relation to those two internal element factors that impede development. And then collective, I mean, self-reliance. I mean, AFRIC AU is doing quite a lot now in relation to, I mean, free movement, free trade and things like that. African countries should need to, I mean, collectively, I mean, self-reliance. And then the collective self-reliance also relates to international cooperation. A lot of the time, when we have student criticism, are you saying that African countries should be on their own? No. You know, it relates to, you know, taking control of their own features. The last point I want to talk about now is, I mean, legislating for development. I mean, I also push, they said, theoretical push also on the need for African countries to legislate for development. I mean, I mean, that is using law consciously. You know, I mean, the way laws are made in many African countries to follow the colonial track. I mean, making laws. Legislative houses need to look, you know, there needs to be a higher objective for law in Africa. You know, the higher objective for law is law to aid development and legislators should legislate for it. That is every legislation, the argument is every legislation should have a developmental objective. You know, it should have a developmental objective. Even criminal laws, I mean, they should have a developmental objective in relation to, you know, which will be consciously monitored in relation to how it fulfills those objectives. You know, where those objectives are very well established, then even the judiciary in interpreting the laws, you know, they will be influenced in relation to those developmental objectives. It's a very interesting course really, it gives us opportunity to be able to see how Africa itself can serve it, using law, you know, in various areas, touching on various areas. Three of us teach the course, as you see, it's quite a broad course. I mean, with different specializations, and I'm not an expert in trade. You know, we have Olivia there who does trade and Amelia also teaches on it. And therefore it's very, very interesting. At the end of the course, students are really very fascinated. We tell them, I tell them, you know, yes, you've learned now go when you go back to Africa, go into the world and change the world. And we do get back a lot of, I mean, feedbacks, you know, many students tell that many of our students made from law from development. One law student was telling me that, you know, he studied law, he knew law, but all he knew about law was about law and order, you know, law is just about law and order. Now, by taking this course, you know, he has really found a career path, which he really wants to move on into. So it's quite an interesting, and these are some of the, you know, novel things that we do at SOWAS, which really makes SOWAS very different. So if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. And I hope as maybe you make some benefit from what I've just said. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for your very interesting lecture, many lectures, both of you. I'm captivated. I think now we should open it up to the Q&A session. And if I understand correctly, Kim, students will just submit their questions to the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Is that correct? That's correct. So if you have any questions, please feel free to drop them into the Q&A, and then they'll pop up if you just open up the Q&A and any questions will be in there. And then we can answer them either through typing in or through answering them directly in live. So do feel free to pop any questions that you have in there. It could be about the content of today's session. It could be about Laura in general. It could be about Laura at SOWAS. It could be about SOWAS itself. Yes, indeed. Please, anything you'd like to address, we're very happy to speak with you about. Don't be shy. Have one. The question is, what are the qualities we look for in a student? Shall I address that? I suppose I am the postgraduate admissions tutor. You know, we look for students who've done well academically. And I believe for postgraduate taught courses, you'll have to have a high 2-2. That's around a 57% average depending upon where you come from. But we also look for extracurricular activities. We're interested to know what you've been engaged in if you have shown an interest in law or in social justice activities. So how passionate you are for study at SOWAS specifically? What you have in mind in terms of your career? Why, you know, why you'd like to study at SOWAS? So there's a wide range of characteristics that we take into consideration, not merely academic ones. And they can be used to augment, for example, marginal shortcomings where your academic results may not achieve or may not meet our requirements. Further questions, I hope. More substantive ones aimed at these very fascinating lectures, professors that I have. Would you recommend doing a law MA full-time over one year or does it make little difference doing it over two years? Any comments from my colleagues on that? Well, I mean, I actually just had an inquiry from a student who is my personal advisor regarding this, because we also have the three-year route. I mean, the part-time collider will be two years or three years. Now, she initially was doing a part-time of two years because she's working fully. And I mean, even that, she found out that, I mean, because of the nature of her work, she was finding it, I mean, quite difficult to be able to cope. And she was considering whether to move on to the three-year route, and therefore she got in touch with me too. So a lot will depend on what you do. The two-year and three-year routes are for those, perhaps maybe who want to do it on part-time basis, and they will have time to work. Because, I mean, the one-year route, although students, I understand, also do some part-time job. I mean, all master's programs in the UK are intensive. I did my own master's in the UK as well. I mean, they are very demanding. If you want to really do well, if you want to do well in them, you hit the ground running, and you have to really commit time to it. So you have to decide, you know, what you want to do. In one year you do it quickly, and you get it done, but for you to do well and get a good grade, you have to really commit time to it. Otherwise, I mean, if you want to work full-time, the right thing to do is to do the part-time route, either of two years or three years. That sounds pretty sensible to me. Absolutely. It's very intensive, and I did my master's at the LSE, in fact, and I found the same, that if I'd done it over two years, I may have done a little bit better, because it simply was so intensive. That being said, the 12-month route is quite attractive, I think. Yeah, and just to add to that, I think it also depends on what you want from your master's course, what your intention is. I think that the one-year route is a good way of also being able to collaborate with peers and to meet other people engaged in the master's course. I think part-time it's possibly more challenging, because you're not necessarily part of a group that's intensively studying in that one year. So just to add to what both Jonathan and I should have said, which I fully agree with in terms of intensity of the course and workload and whether or not you're working. Let's move on to the next question. I'll just read that out, Clara, if you don't mind. Thank you to the excellent panelists. Well, that's all Michelle and Michoud. What do you think are the prospects of a face-to-face teaching in 2020-21, and what is the SOAS plan to address studying during the pandemic? I mean, if I just answer briefly from what I know, the plan is that in September, the academic term of 2021, that in fact face-to-face teaching will recommence, Clara. And in the event that there is some sort of restrictions with respect to COVID, the institution will conduct so-called blended learning, so a mix of face-to-face and remote learning. But I think, you know, by September, the vaccination program in this country has been, is quite successful, it's fast moving, and everybody anticipates to be able to have some degree of face-to-face interaction. I don't know if somebody, if you'd like to add to that, Michelle or Michoud. Just to reiterate really what you've said, Jonathan, I think all our plans are to be back on campus in September, and the goal is either full back on campus or a form of blended learning in which there'll be some online activities and some face-to-face teaching, depending on how things have progressed in terms of the vaccines in the UK and also in terms of the number of students who are, of course, overseas students because there may be various things we need to take into account with respect to their capacity to make it with us on campus. Yeah, I mean, I agree totally. I think, I mean, the ideal, what we all want even, I mean, lecturers is for us to be on campus, to be face-to-face, similar to all other UK universities. I mean, whatever decision will be taken by SOAS will be guided by government regulations. I mean, depending on whether there's another lockdown or not, so, but we hope with the vaccine, hopefully things will pipe down and we'll be, we're all looking forward to get back on campus, definitely. That's for sure. Let's move on to Neva's question. She writes, I will be applying to an MA in another department, anthropology, but I'm really interested in law. Does the law department conduct lectures for other masters? Or can we join some of your lectures even if we register to another MA? And thank you for your presentations. That, to the best of my knowledge, Neva, if you do enter as an MA student in law, you should have some elective modules if I'm not mistaken. And those elective modules would give you the ability to study in other departments. But if you're studying, say, an anthropology, you should have the same capacity to take a law module in the law department as part of your anthropology program. And it's all done in terms of credits. The easiest way to figure that out is plain and simply to go to that MA program in anthropology and look at the structure of the program, which will say specifically how much freedom you have to visit courses in other departments. So moving on to J.A. Maldonado Andrews question, he's thanking you both for your presentations. Professor Badarin, you talked about the importance of legislation and development from my experience in a colonial context, Puerto Rico, law and legislation can be very rooted in colonial practices. Would you share any thoughts on how to confront traces of colonialism from a legal system? Yes, I mean, thank you so much. That's a very good question. I mentioned it earlier. If you see how law, for example, is how legislation is done in many African countries today or perhaps maybe other countries in the global south. It's rooted in a colonial context. Now there have been a lot of research on this. And Seaman and Seaman have written a very good article on this in relation to how legislation, particularly in the region in Africa should be moved on with. One question that usually comes up when we talk about, I mean, legislation relation to development or law in relation to development is that well, there's no need to think about legislation or there's no need to think about the law. It's implementation that is the problem. People talk about the fight implementation, but usually research has found out no. If you want to say good legislation actually should incorporate, you know, processes of implementation, good implementation. So if a law cannot be implemented, then it's not good law. I mean, so that's part of the new processes we are talking about. Previously the colonial means of legislation doesn't look at that. And that is where legislation for development comes into the issue. Now if you have a developmental objective, the law itself then must provide ways by which, I mean, implementation is monitored to make sure that it follows the trend of development. It's part of the debate. There are quite a lot of materials on this, rather than, now one question that one of the students raised when we're looking at this, I mean, in actually this year was that where he said, but that's not how law is made. Now, for example, he was talking about it from the colonial context, he was talking about it in the terms that when law is made just have a title to the law and then you see still the substantive of the law. Now, who says this can change? Now, who says that is how should be done all over? You know, I mean, I think that's exactly why this course is important. I mean, to look at possible ways by which, you know, we change the process of legislation and also, I mean, taking policy into consideration and ensuring that I mean the law is good for implementation to achieve its objective. Thank you. Narayan writes, may you speak a bit about the scope of employment after completion of a master's in international relations, so as considering the post pandemic situation. Of course, we are stewards of law, not international relations, we do deal with public law and I suppose that is related to international relations. I mean, employment is very tough, Narayan, I think globally in relation to the pandemic. I've just read an article, actually in the FT on exactly students, you know, situation in this regard. And all I can say is it's really critical, I think, to focus on distinguishing yourself as best you can in your master's degree. So that because you're competing with a large body of candidates, candidates that have lost their jobs, but also recent graduates. And so the pool of particular candidates for any position is much greater than it has been in recent years. And, you know, the only way to, I think, you know, to deal with that is simply to really do your best to distinguish yourself in your academics but also I would think extra curricularly to show a potential employer. What makes you special, what makes you different. I don't know if my colleagues want to add to that that's a very hard question. The second part you mentioned, sorry, Michelle, go on. The second part you mentioned Jonathan, I think it's important. I mean, there are so many master's programs all over the world. I mean, what makes you special as you rightly mentioned, particularly in relation to area of study. Now, at source, as we said earlier, many, if, for example, if you're interested in joining international organizations, a lot of international organizing, most of the work of international, the UN and even EU. Now they are trying to have impact on the ground in Africa, they are looking to through to Africa. So having that specialization may give you an edge. Now, language also plays a very important role in it. I mean, at source, people have opportunity to do languages as well. Languages of the global south. You know, if you have an ELLMA, you know the language of family particular, I mean, it gives you an edge above, for example, employers will look at, okay, if you want to send somebody maybe to Kenya, and this person can also speak Swahili. You know, I'm having, it's an add on to, you know, to your degree. Yes, Michiona. Yeah, just to add to what my good colleagues have said, I think, yeah, it really depends on the kind of career that you're thinking about. Certainly, certainly, I think having a master's degree from SOAS in certain careers and certain fields is seen as a very, very reputable and prestigious institution to have gone to. So certainly at the UN, of course, where I've worked, that's something that will set you apart initially and then, as my colleagues have said, it will also be your own personal story, and what it is about you that they can see fits with the organization and the aspects that they're looking at in a, in an employee. But one of the things that we do at SOAS is that every student is given an academic advisor. And certainly, I'm sure, depending on who your academic advisor is, they can provide some guidance or at least some discussions, discuss with you your prospects, postmasters, what it is you intend to do, and certainly we'll be able to write references, I believe that's what we do here at law anyway, we write references for all our academic advisies with respect to any future employment that they go for. Yes, indeed. And we have a very good career services well, which offers a wide range of services. So you, you know, it would be a good idea I would think that at the very beginning of your studies that you start strategically planning for the particular type of job you're listed in and doing everything you can to, you know, to develop your CV so that it meets the specifications of the type of candidate that that that type of job is potentially looking for. Let's move on. Charlotte, you mentioned that there was a clinical component to the business and human rights module. And are there other opportunities like that in other modules. Michelle, are you aware of, of that clinical. To my knowledge, there is a small clinical component available in one of the asylum and immigration courses as well. We currently have a clinical legal scholar who's coordinating all of our efforts. And she's probably the best person to speak to with respect to your query so I can certainly give you Clara's detail so that you can speak to her clarity or crotch with respect to clinical legal components that are available to master students. I was also thinking of Lin's human rights clinic. Oh yes of course. That's another human rights colleague who runs the human rights clinical components so the entire course is in effect, clinical legal studies and you will be attached to a particular organization and then engage in a particular human rights issue. You can write particular reports with respect to that issue or engage in particular kinds of activities around that. It sounds like a fun module. It's great she's on sabbatical at the moment so momentarily available. Right. I'm coming with a background in international relations what preparations do I need before joining sauce in September. Amrita, you, you basically just need to bring yourself in September depends on whether or not you've been admitted and and I would presume that you would apply for an MA with an IR background. That background is perfectly suitable for law study. In fact, I think it's very useful it's very, very related in particular as I mentioned to public law colleagues again my wise colleagues might know more than me. Certainly public international law you'd be well placed I had some international relations students both in my business and human rights class and subsequently in international law classes as well so we happily have you join us. Any questions. Any further questions. I don't see any. Anything else written there any follow up that you'd like us to address. Okay, well then, I guess, what remains to be done is simply to thank you for your time and and and interest in the so school of law, and of course, to thank my colleagues for their erudite lectures, I'm sure all of you really enjoyed, or I hope you did at least. If you'd like to say anything machine Michelle, you're free to do so otherwise I'll just bid you farewell and hope to see you at so us. I just want to thank everybody for their time for staying tuned to the end. Thank you so much. We look forward to seeing you.