 Okay, recording is on. Let's take a moment just to pray together and then we will start our class. May I request somebody to please pray and we'll start. Dear Heavenly Father, we come to an end in the name of Jesus. We thank You for this beautiful day and for the class we are about to have love. God I give each and every one of my classmates who are gathered here in the earhands Jesus. We are here to listen to Your words. We are here to understand more about You, to get deeper in our knowledge about You, to know more and more about You Jesus as Pastor Ashutosh teaches us. Help us to listen to you carefully. I pray for a good wifey connection throughout the session of Jesus and let there be no hindrance in the name of Jesus but and I pray for everyone who's on the way to connect with us. If you have a good wifey connection, I pray that everyone will be gathered here today and we will know more about You Jesus throughout the class. You'll be the Alpha and the Omega Jesus. You'll be the first and the last and as Pastor teaches us. Help us to open our mind and heart and listen to it and understand each and every word that He is saying Jesus. Be with us Lord and guide us in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you. All right, so we come down to the final session or I should say final topic in this course on Christian apologetics. Just to kind of review this journey that we've made. We began this course by just defining or explaining what Christian apologetics is and looking at how both the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul took time to reason with people. You know Jesus answered the questions people came to Him with. Sometimes of course people came to Him with trick questions maybe intending to get Him into trouble and sometimes people came with genuine questions and He took time to respond to that. Then same thing with the Apostle Paul in his ministry. He reasoned with people in as He went from place to place. He took time to reason. He took time to explain. So we gave that background and then we journeyed first of all in the first section which was a little heavy on science. We talked about creation and create the evidence of a creator and things around creation. You know the two main theories from science on cosmology and also on evolutionary process. So we try to respond to that. So that was the first part of the course. Then we changed. We moved into talking about the person of Christ himself. Next topic was on the Bible. On how we got the Bible. Why we believe the Bible is true or reliable or authentic. Spend time on that. Then we spent time on the person of Christ. The uniqueness of Christ. Why he's complete in terms of salvation through Jesus Christ and the resurrection of Christ and how do we share Christ meaningfully to people of other faith especially Hindus and Muslims to major world religions. So we took time on that. We went through that. Then we began to talk about some other matters where we moved into talking about suffering which is a big question in the minds of many people. You know why is there suffering? Why is there evil in this world and so on. So we went through that part discussing on that which is a big thing a big area where people have questions and so on. And now we come down to the final part of our learning on Christian apologetics which is on social issues. The questions that people have on different social issues. I mean there are a lot of issues especially today when you look around in the world. Lots and lots of things people are arguing over fighting over social matters and in many ways the church has to have its position. What does the church say? What do believers say? What does the Bible say about this matter? And so we want to try and address some of the you know maybe the more important social issues questions topics and try to give an answer to some of these. What we want to do is you want to first of all establish some sort of a framework meaning this is how we should think in trying to respond to social issues. Now we may not be able to cover all these social issues that are there. Now we'll pick up some of the important ones but then there may be some new topics that come say you know next year or a year from now few years from now some other topic becomes a big issue either you know regionally or sometimes globally but if you have a framework and say okay you know whatever the matter is this is how we should think about it from a biblical perspective then we can arrive at our decisions or answers using that framework so that's what I want to do first and then we will pick up some topics and you know and if you have additional questions we can also do that. So let's see how far we go today we may finish it today otherwise you know we will finish it next week but this would be kind of the last two and then what I will do is I will frame question three assessments based on all that we've covered and put it online and you can use the you know the remaining two three weeks to just answer those do those assessments. There won't be very difficult you know pretty much it's an open book assessment so you can just it'll be like a revision of everything we've covered so you go through everything answer this question so you'll be doing the assessment but also it'll be like a full revision of the entire course right. So let's get into this last lesson which is having to deal with social issues. I'm going to share the PDF and why is it important even to be concerned you know about these social issues. A lot of things are going on in the world today why should we as believers even be bothered about it? Well one big reason is because 1st Timothy 316 the apostle Paul taught us that the church is the pillar of truth 1st Timothy chapter 3 and sorry it's verse 15 made a mistake here it's verse 15 not verse 16 verse 2b 315 he says if I am delayed I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God which is the church of the living God the pillar and ground of truth so he says the church of the living God the church and of course in this context he's writing to the local church in Ephesians but it of course applies to every local church it applies to the church as a whole. The church is the pillar and ground the pillar means the upholder you can think of a pillar as an upholder ground means foundation of truth so truth in this world is going to be upheld and it's going to be the foundation for that is the church meaning the church is the upholder of truth and it's the supporter of foundational supporter and upholder of truth in this world if the church is taken out of the way then truth in this world can easily be distorted compromised there is no there is no other upholder and foundation supporter of truth in this world God has placed the church in this world as the upholder and supporter of truth so from that perspective the church meaning believers you and I we have to uphold truth even regarding all these social matters you know there will be questions on all of these social issues sometimes there will be even spiritual issues and legislative issues like government and law and so on and the church has to say this is the truth now whether other people accept it or not we can't force that we can't force everybody to accept the truth it's their choice but we should be a voice of truth a voice for truth in this world and say this is the truth this is what the word God word of God said this is what God wants and then you know there will be people who agree there will be people who disagree and we still love the people even if they disagree okay we respect them love them but this is the truth and so in relation to that there are other questions you know how can the church be engaged in the world when it comes to especially legislative matters that means laws that are being you know established in countries so you have the legislative part of government and they are making up rules so they're making up laws and you know if the law that is being made by the government is in some way wrong morally wrong or uh in uh is against truth so you know how what should the church do and how do we relate to all of this and that's a big issue it's a big area to think about I'm not saying we have all the answers but we need to think we need to pray we need to study and we need to see how to respond to these kinds of things so you know can moral issues can spiritual issues be legalized or legislated you know can law control moral behavior can law should law affect spiritual expression a lot of things going on different parts of the world different countries are having their own challenges and own struggles you know and we can speak for what's happening here in India if you know what's happening all kinds of things and and other parts of the world other countries will have their own challenges so what I want to present first of all to us is we should have a little framework we should have a framework to guide our thinking that means look this is how we should look at the situation and we should base our framework on you know to base it on imitating God you know how does God deal with sinners meaning how does God deal with people who don't know him who are not necessarily respectful of him or fearful of him how does God deal with such people and we have to imitate God because we are also dealing with the same people right people who don't know God or may not even have the fear of God and we have to relate to them and the good thing to do is imitate God and how he relates to those who are sinners who don't know God so here are some here are five things I've put down to keep us to guide our thinking one is God does not override human will that means God doesn't fall you know God is king God is judge God is all powerful but he doesn't force people to follow him he tells them of course he is a number two he expresses what is right and wrong he tells him see this is right this is wrong this path will lead to destruction this path will lead to life and blessing that's what Deuteronomy chapter 30 verse 19 says God says you know I've said before your life and death blessing and cursing but choose life that's what God says so this is look there are two parts in front of you one that leads to life and blessing one that leads to that death and cursing but God is telling us choose life so he's telling us what's right and wrong he's telling us you know what would be the right choice but he leaves that choice to us he doesn't override human will he doesn't control us manipulate us or anything like that but he tells us very clearly right wrong these are the consequences you make your choice we also see in the bible that God is willing to reason together because when Isaiah and the both these scriptures and Isaiah says come let us reason together I mean let's in other way in other words okay you have questions I will answer let's reason together so that's another thing we can imitate God and that means we are willing to dialogue we are willing to listen to the other side as well as respond to the other side right to people have a different idea different thought let's reason together so we're not afraid of discussion or sharing thoughts and so on the other thing we see in scripture is God treats everyone with love and fairness even those who are against him in Matthew 5 Jesus said you know look at your heavenly father he makes the sun to shine on the good and the evil he makes the rain to fall on the good and the evil in other words God doesn't say well just because your evil no sunlight for you and no rain for you no he's loving he's fair yes there are people who are disobedient yes there are people who don't fear God who may be in sin whatever but his goodness his providence is extended to everybody he's you know he's good and fair to everybody and yet number five God does not compromise himself that means he will never go against himself he is truth he is holy he's just and he's love and he won't compromise these things that means just because he loves the sinner he's not going to change and say sin is okay no sin is still sin but he loves the sinner he loves the person but sin is still sin what is holy is holy what is unholy is unholy God will not change that he will not compromise that he will not compromise truth holiness or justice or love so these five thoughts can give us a little framework can give us a framework based on which we can respond to some of the challenges that we would face so people come and ask us questions about this about that you know yeah you know we can tell them this is right and this is wrong we're not going to force you to make the choice that choice is yours you have a free will we are willing to sit down and reason we're willing to listen to what you have to say lovingly peacefully we don't have to fight and we will you know whatever rules are made or whatever we do we will be loving and fair but we cannot compromise ourselves we cannot compromise who we are we will continue to be who we are even if you do not you know even regardless of what the other side says we will continue to walk in truth holiness justice and love so those are things we want to compromise on so that framework let's move forward to think about another issue is you know there are many things the bible is silent about that means we cannot give a chapter and verse about that and we will look at some of these things for example you know genetics or organ transplant so you we can't give a chapter in verse that says genetics is right or genetics is wrong i mean especially when you want to use the science of genetics to modify the genes the genetic makeup of you know fruits or animals and then even human beings you know for various things and we will talk about it or organ transplant you're taking the organ from one human person putting it in another human person to fix a problem or you know then there's this whole issue of surrogacy of somebody else bearing the child of somebody else i mean you know this is such a if you don't you don't find chapter in verse on this and how do you respond to something like this you know but this is becoming so things like these are becoming more and more prevalent and then you know what does the church say about these things what does the bible say how are we to respond to these and then there are other matters you know so how do we respond to topics where we don't find a clear chapter in verse you know well here's some guidelines we can arrive at a conclusion or a decision based on three things one is the nature of god always start with god himself you know what is the nature and the character of god who who is god in relation to this matter you know what is the nature of god in relation to this matter what can be about the nature and the character of god what part of it can be bring to bear on this matter first thought second okay there may not be a specific chapter in verse but generally what do we understand from scripture from what is written what can we understand right that's a second one and the third one is what would be just fair right and good that means if you want to stay in harmony with the fact that god is just god is fair he's good right so again bring that to bear on the matter and keeping these in mind we try to think about the map issue the topic and then arrive at a conclusion but again in such places in such matters where we don't have a specific chapter in verse it is good to say that this is my opinion meaning this is not chapter in verse you know this is a decision or a conclusion that i've arrived at based on some of my thinking which is i've tried to understand the nature of god i try to look at scripture i've tried to be just very good and therefore i've arrived at this conclusion right so we always it's my opinion it's not like this is does it god no especially when there is no specific chapter in verse we don't want to insist on our own conclusion this is a conclusion i've arrived at somebody else may try to go to the same thought process and they may arrive at a different conclusion it's okay they may have given more weight or more emphasis to a certain aspect of who god is or a certain general instruction in scripture or maybe a certain other understanding fine and we can't argue especially on matters where the bible is silent okay we can't fight on it we don't want to fight on it we can express our opinion and leave it at that right but when there is chapter in verse and when the bible is very clear the bible has spoken about a matter then we need to say that very clearly i'm just giving a guideline on when the bible is silent on certain topics all right so let's pick up you know uh some topics and then i'll of course open up for question answers and we can you know we can definitely discuss now now when it comes to this whole issue of marriage homosexuality and sex same sex marriage i've clubbed all these together because they're all interrelated in some way you know we we start off the topic of marriage and then in the world today and then you know in the world today what has happened is homosexuality a sexual lifestyle came into the forefront it's all it has always been there from bible times but it became like homosexuality had to be you know came into the forefront as though it was a normal way of life and then that stepped into this whole thing of well if this is accepted as a normal way of life then uh we should give provision for same sex marriage so you know two people of the same gender want to get married they want to have a family meaning they'll adopt children or whatever and have uh so have a family so things have become very complicated now god created marriage he created male and female very clearly and then somehow all of that got distorted and then there was sex between people of the same gender that became accepted as normal i'm talking about the world the world that began to give that expression and then that moved into impacting marriage itself you know so it's like we've gone through a full circle and corrupted not only sexuality but we ended up corrupting the ordinance of marriage itself and so they're all interconnected now the bible is very clear on this topic right so we have clear statements in the word of god on this matter right so we know starting from genesis chapter two chapter two verse 24 god designed marriage always to be between one man one woman so that is very clear right so man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two will become one flesh right it was very clear so there's no same sex marriage in the bible it's not there and we also know the bible calls homosexuality or sex between people of the same gender as sin there are several places roman's chapter one first quranthian chapter six and revelation chapter 20 several scriptures where homosexuality is sin it it's judged by god and we believe that because it is sin as with other kinds of sins god sets people free god can you know god can touch the hearts and lives of people and set people free from this sin just as he sets people free from sets us free from other kinds of sins so we shouldn't exclude homosexuality he sets people free from all kinds of sin so we believe that we know that we pray for that now the world is opposed to us saying homosexuality is sin but we can't compromise the truth the world is opposed to us saying that people can be set free from this lifestyle but we can't compromise the truth and so what do we do we and yet we have to walk in love so just as we say god loves the sin god hates sin but he loves the sinner we too we call sin a sin but we love the people who may be trapped in this kind of lifestyle and to whatever extent they are willing to be open we will love them serve them minister to them pray for them to be set free by the power of god and so on now some people don't want to be set free then we can't force it we don't overwrite this and then when we also are willing to sit down and listen to the other side so there are people who will argue you know they'll say well i was born like this or um these feelings are natural to me sometimes people have tried to even say well this is in in in our genes and and it has been proved and i think this there was a study from johns hopkins university to show that uh homo these tendencies or same sex homosexual tendencies i don't have anything in the genes they put out a study quite sometime back but anyway there will be these kinds of arguments from the other side saying oh i was born like this i have these tendencies i have these feelings i was born as a man but then i later discovered i i really was supposed to be a woman or the other way i was born as a woman but i realized i was supposed to be a man whatever they'll have all these arguments you know we will listen we are not uh we we don't shut our ears okay fine we will reason together all right you say what you have to say and we will provide an honest response to the arguments right so we are imitating God in how we relate to people uh on this matter so to sum it up this is a matter where the bible is very clear marriage is for a man and a woman not for people of the same gender so we cannot support that second homosexuality uh sexual expression of people within the same gender is wrong and this complicated thing of same sex marriage is also wrong because it goes against what the bible clearly states and we also believe that just as in every other situation God can set people free from this he can set us free so we pray we pray for minister pray for deliverance pray for minister people to be minister too we believe that and yet having understanding and standing for the truth we also walk in love we love the people we're willing to listen to them and we are willing to share in an honest way this is what the truth is now having said that there are difficult situations in life meaning uh here are things that have happened you know um for example if you are a business owner and these are real situations that have happened you know uh so here's a person who's a believer who's running a bakery and a gay couple come and order a cake they say please make a cake for us uh we are having our wedding so make a wedding cake for us so there's a gay couple and they're placing an order for a wedding cake in this bakery where the owner or the person running the bakery is a believer and doesn't believe in you know doesn't support on same-sex marriage so what do you do in a situation like this you know he can make a cake he can make any cake of course but when he has been told that this is a cake for a gay couple and he doesn't believe in a gay man in a same-sex marriage you know he can't put you know happy wedding and put the names of two men or two women on the cake he can't do that so what should he do right now in some places a business owner has the right to refuse service say sorry my faith doesn't allow me to do that I cannot make this cake you know they can go the couple can go to another shop and get it done so there may be a you know a bakery next door who's willing to do it that's that's their choice but for this business owner he can refuse to do it because of his faith but that became a big legal issue because how can you refuse a service based on other you know meaning the gay couple is questioning how can you refuse making us a cake just because you don't agree with other what we're doing so that became a big legal issue I think I mean I don't I haven't been following the whole result story but I think the end result was that the legal court the court the supreme court supported the person of faith saying yeah he has a right to refuse service based on his belief but that may not be the same everywhere all over the world there could be situations where you know they pass a law saying well you cannot you have no right to refuse service based on faith now that's a very difficult situation yeah but this is where the legal side comes into effect the running of a business you know and when faith comes in the law comes in you're running a business what do you do very difficult situation or you think about some other situations you know if you are the HR manager in a company and whatever company IT company difference different companies and in the company they want to have a culture where they want to be inclusive we don't have we don't discriminate against people against their sexual orientation so that is being fair they want to be fair to everybody you know what you do in your personal life that's your choice when you come to the organization you do your job you do your work you know if you're a software developer you come and you do your software work what you do your sexual orientation your medical status that is your personal issue so we will not even discriminate or we won't even take that into consideration so that's the organization which is I think you know it's a fair thing meaning that is this organization is existing to do a certain kind of business whatever whether IT or healthcare education whatever they may be as long as a person is able to do their work that's all they're hiring the person to do the work what race that person belongs to or what is whether they're married or unmarried or whatever that is not a consideration as far as the work is concerned and so they want to have policies organizational policies that are drafted to express that right so as a human resource person or a HR or a cultural office person you will have to be fair to everybody but here becomes the problem or here comes the problem in many organizations globally the people of you know example like you know they have a gay pride month or you know these are things that are being sell up quote unquote recognized in the world and they want that to be expressed within the organization I mean as example if there is a cultural festival some festival happening that is usually also expressed within the organization and so then this becomes an issue okay gay pride we want the organization to celebrate that so it because of very difficult situation because we understand fairness in employment I mean you know what your orientation is we're not worried you as long as you do the job but there's the other aspect where the celebration of various things that happen in cultures spill over into the organization then the HR person has to organize you know some event something to celebrate that example a gay pride month or something like that that becomes a very it puts that HR person in a difficult position especially if that's not aligned to the you know when it's not aligned to the faith imagine a Christian a believer having to organize something that celebrates gay pride it's against his personal faith but because he's in the organization you know he has to do those things and that becomes very difficult I'm talking about that particular thing you know or if you're in government you're in a you know you're a chief minister you're a prime minister whatever you're in government and then you've got to relate to people of all backgrounds and today people you know of the same sex and or all these things you know how do you treat everybody fairly equally how do you make the sun to shine and both the good and the evil give reign to good and evil you know just like how God was doing in your own jurisdiction how do you treat everybody equally and fairly so that whatever you do as a leader in government you're being fair to everybody that again is a tough question and then lastly the local church you know can the local church refuse to conduct gay marriages and we have you know for example we've taken a clear stand we will not do it you know why because the bible is very clear and the church stands by the word of god the church preaches and teaches the word of god so we will not conduct these marriages now that doesn't mean they cannot go and get married they can go and register the marriage in a government office and get married that's up to them but as far as the church is concerned we will not conduct gay marriage we take that stand very clearly so in some situations like the church we can take a very clear stand but then there are other difficult situations you know in the workplace or in government where you have to be fair to everybody regardless of that you know personal matters how do you do these things is is quite a challenge okay so let me pause here and we've covered a lot of ground let me pause you and see you know if there are any questions for discussion and let's let's look into that all right any questions on this let's let's um okay i see a question from paul evoto says i'm using local brew residues to feed my poultry is this right uh you know so here's a matter where there is no chapter and worse to answer this question so what we have to do is we have to just think through on this and arrive at uh conclusion something that would be and of course we would express it as an opinion this is what we think it is or we feel um but there's no chapter and worse we can give but we arrive at a best decision that we can so let me open this up to the class here's a question from paul he's looking he's using the residue so that means the leftover so it's not using the alcohol but he's using the leftover from you know so they but maybe example with that's rice or something else um uh uh you know they are using he's using that to feed chicken uh let's see what the class thinks what do you think i mean so there's no chapter and worse on this so we're not giving you know a definite answer we just we're trying to arrive at a conclusion a decision what do you think now you're just feeding the poultry with the leftovers uh from some you know some grain product that the grains may be used to generate alcohol so he's not feeding the alcohol he's using the leftover to feed the poultry is it okay it's the question feel free to share your thoughts on that okay i see one response others i'm looking at the chat so one arty says i think it's okay anyone else john paul says i think it's okay colons i think it's okay as long as his conscience is fine colons says that nice uh elijah you want to share your thoughts yes uh pasta i think uh there's no problem with it it's okay uh sense what he's using is a residue one and uh this is not something he is taking in to destroy his body it is being used as feed for his animals which is a commercial activity so i believe that his conscience should be clear about it he shouldn't carry any guilt it is okay just as a farmer who goes to the field and plow the field to make it more efficient that's my my opinion good thank thank you for sharing i see others other responses as well super sheesh says i think it's okay so i totally i think it's okay um abu bakre i think it's okay yeah and uh i will join my words well and i i also think it's okay right so so here is an a clear example where we don't have a chapter in verse for this but it is you know a genuine question you know is it a right thing to do or not and so we we we look at it and say look you know we and i think most of you would have gone to the same thought process that elisha shared that uh it is not affecting the person he is you know it's not like for example if i was getting drunk or so on you know if it's making me drunk or do something sinful then of course it would be not right before god so it's not affecting any human person and it is not harming the the poultry you're just feeding them and uh you know he is so it's perfectly fine the the the the the the grain products may have been used to generate alcohol but you're not feeding the alcohol to the birds you're feeding the residue which you know this is what some sort of food for them so you know so we arrive at a simple conclusion like this we think through it and say yeah there's nothing harmful being done so it should be okay and you know as long as your conscience is clear like if some people have said yeah go ahead with it you know so here's an that's a good example let's take another one here arty shares in the masterpiece cake shop case but refusing to accept the gate couple's order would it be looked upon as the believer cake shop owner did not show the love of Christ to these people just because they were homosexuals you know and that is a very interesting question right so let's think about this right so here's a person who has a bakery a gate couple comes they say hey we're going to get married you know one week from now or two whatever two weeks from now example let's say two men come right they come to this shop and and they tell them hey we you know two men are there and they're saying hey we're going to get married two weeks from now we want to place a order for a cake and on the cake you should write you know we just like to say happy wedding or and you know the names of the two men whatever they want to place the order now the person owning the bakery is a believer at that moment okay i mean he's happy to make cakes but at that moment you know he's in a dilemma making a cake is fine the cake is itself is a neutral thing it's a it's just food but i'm i'm i'm saying okay to a gay marriage i'm giving it i'm making it for these people now try to imagine put yourself in the position of that person and and and think about the options in front of him one is he could look at it as purely a business transaction you know i'll make a cake i'll sell it to you you pay me the money what you do with it is up to you i'm not interested so he could look at it as purely a business transaction and you know i will write whatever you tell me to write on it i don't care you know happy wedding and the names of two men or whatever so he could look at it as purely a business transaction and he says i am not guilty or i'm not responsible for what you do with the cake if you use a cake to celebrate a gay wedding that's your choice it's not mine i'm only making a cake so he can look at it purely as a business transaction another thought was another thought is i don't agree with a gay marriage but i am not participating in that marriage meaning i'm not going there i'm not attending the wedding i'm not conducting the wedding and i don't agree with the marriage with the gay marriage but that is but i love these two people mean they're people the fact that they want to get married is their choice i i'm not the one who's telling them to get married i don't agree with that i'm not attending the wedding i'm not blessing the wedding i love them as people and so i'll make the cake give it to them and pray for their salvation or pray that they will come to know the truth or something so that could be another thought process i'm just i'm just trying to imagine you know as a baker and that moment what are the things that options that would have come through his mind so that this could be could have been another option where i don't agree but i'm not involved and i will love these people i will serve them by making them a cake that could be a second option a third option is the position that this particular person took which is i don't agree with a gay marriage i will not let i will not participate in it participate in it in any way i will not make a cake for them right so this they're practically i can think of three options one is do it purely as a commercial transaction second you don't agree but you because of love you do it third you say i don't agree i love them but um i love them but i cannot do this because it's against my faith three things so think about it you know we'll go for a break just think about it and you know let's take your thoughts on this you know what what what what would have been the right thing to do you know what would be if you look at our framework the first five points we gave based on that what could have been acceptable decisions by the baker the person who owns the bakery in a situation like this okay so we'll be back in about 10 minutes and then let's discuss on this and let's try to use our framework of these five points and and try to arrive at some decision okay all right let's go for a break we'll be back in 10 minutes thank you