 Welcome to H5P symposium day two. We had a really successful day yesterday. Thank you to those of you who were able to join yesterday and to those who weren't able to join yesterday. Welcome to today. We hope today is going to be as productive as yesterday was. To start off today, I'd like to acknowledge that UBC, which is hosting the symposium, is located on the traditional ancestral and unceded territories of the Musqueam people. As we are meeting virtually today, I'd also like to acknowledge that here in Lower BC Mainland, we are also often also on the unceded territories of the Squamish, Slavertooth, and other Coast Salish peoples. You may be joining us from different areas, and I'd like to take a moment to appreciate, consider, and give respect to the lands in which we are situated. I appreciate the land where I am as it provides me with the opportunities. When I acknowledge being on the territory of the Musqueam people, it is rooted in an understanding that I, as a resident of Vancouver and a member of UBC, am privileged to be learning and working on territory that is not my own. And as we did yesterday, I would like you to, I'd like to invite you to acknowledge the territories that you are on in your respective parts of the world. Now, as a roadmap for today, we're going to start off with a panel discussion. The next hour and a half, we're going to be looking at creating H5P projects with students. We're going to be looking at, we've got quite an experienced panel here today, going from students up to learning designers, all who have had extensive experience with H5P. And we're going to look at different ways in which we can make H5P more accessible, how to manage your H5P library. We hopped on tags and metadata yesterday trying to help people with organization. We're going to be hearing some other people, some tips and tricks that they've had about organization. We're going to be hearing from students who have created H5P content and students who have consumed H5P content. And so we're going to be taking a good hard look at that in the panel discussion. Then from 1030 to 12pm, we're going to be doing the studio session, which is getting further into H5P. We're going to be looking at more advanced options, drag and drop. We're going to be looking at branching interactive videos. We can look at branching scenarios. And so we'll get ourselves in the weeds a little bit over there. Then between 12 and one, we're going to have a break. And then from one o'clock until three, three plus o'clock, we're going to have the opportunity for you to come along and practice these things that we've learned in the studio sessions with one-on-one support with specialists just to try and help get you started. And so this brings us to the panel discussion this morning. And I'm going to hand it over to Katie quickly. So we heard yesterday about how H5P is a flexible tool with lots of remixing possibilities. So we're going to ask you to be treating us, Simon and I, a bit like our H5P elements today in that we are going to have to be a little bit flexible and remixing. We are going to play the role of both moderator of this panel and panelists. We're going to be switching back and forth as to who's doing that. So I'd like to start by introducing our first panelist. Our first panelist is Siobhan Fee. Siobhan is an associate professor of teaching in the department of geography here at the University of British Columbia. And she also serves as the associate dean of equity, innovation and strategy. Siobhan has used H5P to create and embed interactive content in her first year geography course. She has used H5P in several creative ways. So she's used it as a means to create active learning opportunities for her students in a large course. She's used it to make use of blended learning approach to teaching, as well as to help keep her students engaged while doing asynchronous classwork. So Siobhan, I would like to ask you to quickly share with us what are your favorite or most used H5P content types? Thanks, Kaylee, then Simon. Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't think I have a particular favorite because it really depends on the exercise. I think just overall, I really appreciate that it enables me, the H5P enables me to present students with a whole range of different interactive elements. So from getting them to at the end to create a summary by moving phrases around to multiple choice to what's great also is the videos with the questions that pop up. So it really comes down to what is the objective that I'm trying to achieve in a particular exercise when I try in each week to mix them up so that it's not a constant throughout. So I would say just the general ethos of how interactive each of the tools is rather than any one particular one. Great, thank you. Our next panelist is Stephen Barnes, who's an associate professor of teaching in the department of psychology and the director of the undergraduate program in neuroscience here at UBC. Stephen has made use of the open source part of H5P and has developed a new non-linear remixable interactive approach to delivering course content called the tapestry tool. And tapestry tool uses H5P as its engine. Stephen also makes use of H5P in his massive open online courses that reach over 120,000 students annually. So Stephen, I'd like to ask you the same type of questions. What are your favorite and most used H5P content types? Thanks, Simon. So there's quite a few, as Siobhan said, it does depend to a large degree on what you're trying to accomplish. I can tell you what I think is the coolest H5P widget. It's the 360 virtual tour, which I think I touched on yesterday as well. I just popped that in the chat for people. That I haven't used very much myself, but I really admire people who have, for example, for virtual field trips. I think it's a great widget that was created. Yeah, so that's my favorite conceptually-wise. I think it allows for hybrid learning instances that wouldn't otherwise be possible. Thanks very much. I agree. I'm trying to think how I can use that one in my course, but that's great. Thank you very much. Our next panelist is Parm Gill. Parm is a learning designer in the Educational Technology Support Unit in the Faculty of Education. She has a background in graphic design, multimedia, and print and web production. She's been working on online and blended courses for over 20 years since WebCT's days and is also a graduate of the UBC Master of Education Technology Program. Parm, do you have a favorite or most used H5P content type? I do, I'm perfect for it. I really like the timeline and the reason why I like it. One, I used it when I was a student in the MEP program. So it was really nice to put together my ideas instead of using like an essay or a written assignment. So I really enjoyed that. But what I really like about the timeline is that it can give you a lot of visual information that you can't get from like a list of dates and tables. So you can see like events that are clustered together. Also like that when users are going through timeline, it's more of an organic exploration, sort of like what we would normally look on like on the internet, but it's a curated exploration. So students are still having the enjoyment of looking around and exploring, but they're not gonna stumble across misinformation. There's a lot of tools that I really like, but I really like that one. Thank you very much. Next, we have Novak Rojek is the manager of web services at UBC Center for Technology and Learning Technology. Novak is a web strategist and leading web projects that emphasize content sharing and republishing. This has included leading the team, developing UBC's Open H5P Hub. Novak, I'm not sure if you have a favorite H5P content type, if you don't have a favorite H5P content type, is there something about H5P that you find particularly attractive over say any of the other types of formative assessment tools or open source tools that you've worked with? Thank you, Simon. Well, that's a great question. And I have to say I have not used H5P in a kind of type of environment that you, most of you are using it. I'm coming to it from the sort of technology perspective and we have installed and implemented the H5P on top of the WordPress. And actually, I think that's kind of the answer to the part of your question. I could think how the H5P compares to the WordPress's plugins. So while there are some similarities, I have to say, even though I'm a huge kind of fan of WordPress, the H5P sort of make this sort of boundaries even much smaller and it's a much easier system to quickly master and use. And I think that's why there is a huge attraction because how simple it is to use in a class environment. So those are my just sort of initial impressions. Thank you so much for sharing. Our next panelist is Alina Cook. Alina is a first year PhD student in organic chemistry at Stanford University. She completed her Bachelor of Science at UBC in the Honors Chemical Biology program in 2021. And during her time at UBC, Alina worked with me to help improve the online textbook for UBC's custom first year chemistry textbook. As part of that work, Alina developed new practice questions using H5P and she helped improve upon existing questions based on student feedback. She also previous to that had been part of the course so has also had the experience of consuming questions from a student perspective. So Alina, did you have a favorite or most used content type when you were making or using H5P questions? Yeah, so I'd say my favorite content type primarily from making is the branching scenario question. So that's kind of like the choose your own adventure style problem where it's a super useful way for students to kind of get feedback right away and immediately correct any misconceptions they might have about a question. So that's not a question that I ever experienced as a student, but was one that I was able to design for the textbook once I finished the course. Thank you very much Alina. So now we have Kaylee Johnson, who's an associate professor of teaching in the department of chemistry at UBC. Kaylee worked with professor Glenn Samus in chemistry to author a custom online textbook for UBC's first year chemistry course. Kaylee and Glenn were looking for ways to incorporate interactive questions and interactive videos and CTLT suggested considering H5P. Kaylee has integrated hundreds of H5P questions that are integrated into the online textbook and has taken a special interest in creating interactive videos. What are your favorite and most used content types Kaylee? Well, as you might be able to guess on that introduction, my favorite type is probably interactive videos just because I really like how it's able to guide a student through questions step by step and then ask them to actually give input at each step and then branch to give extra explanation right when they need it and only if they need it. So that's my favorite, but my most used is maybe a less exciting content type but the question set is probably my workhorse just because it's let's integrate a bunch of different question types together and it gives students the type of practice questions that they're often looking for. Our last panelist slash moderator of the panel in his flexible role is Simon Laleo who is an assistant professor of teaching in psychology at UBC. Simon recently with the aid of a BC campus grant created over 1,000 interactive H5P elements for use in the press book instance of the OpenStack psychology book. Simon and I are now exploring the pedagogical benefits of branching interactive videos on student learning and our early results are demonstrating that memory, the memory benefits of using branch of interactive videos with spoken feedback over rereading material or watching a passive video or having interactive videos where the feedback is simple text. Simon, do you have a favorite and most or most used type of H5P content? Thanks, Kaylee. The most used, I suppose is the question set with multiple choice questions and this is just because that is what most often students find in intro to side courses and so trying to give them a lot of practice at these types of questions that they're going to be facing throughout their university career. The ones that I enjoy the most are these branching interactive videos because they allow a fair amount of creativity while embedding course content and sort of making learning a little bit more fun for students and also it allows you to place the student in a space of authority using these branching interactive videos where someone can ask questions of them rather than them having to ask questions of someone else. So those are the two that I probably use the most. Wonderful, thanks, Simon. So as we move into the panel, I'd like to invite anybody to jump in and add questions in via the chat and we will sprinkle them in as we can and anything that we don't get to while we're going through some of our prepared questions we will have time for at the end. So please feel free anytime you have a question to pop it in the chat. To get us started, I'm wondering, Steven, could you please tell us what role H5P has played in your course? Has Vue used it to replace something, enhance something or create something altogether new in terms of your course? Yeah, thank you. So as you know, I use tapestry tool in my courses so I'm basically using H5P as individual nodes. So what I've actually done and I think has been quite successful is have students actually create H5P widgets themselves as either group projects or individual projects that they can or cannot collaborate on. And then that would be part of their course grade is basically an assessment of those widgets. Does that answer your question, Kali? Sorry, I was having trouble unmuting. Yeah, it absolutely does. Thank you so much. I'm wondering, Simon, because I know you use H5P in a bit of a different way given that Steven's using in the tapestry tool. Could you answer the same question? So what role has H5P played in your course and what's it allowed you to replace, enhance or create? Absolutely. I really have enjoyed, I like using H5P for its flexibility to embed it right in the spaces that students are learning. For instance, trying to use something like Canvas quiz after reading a passage where the student might have to leave part of the textbook that they're working in to go and fill out a quiz and then come back or they would have to read more and then do a quiz and then go back. Where H5P really just allows me to embed some questions right after a section that they've read, they can test their knowledge and their understanding and then brush up on anything that they feel that they may need that they haven't quite understanding. Hoping achieving what Mark McDaniel was talking about yesterday, increasing their meta memory about knowing what they don't know now and making their studying a little bit more effective. So I haven't really used it to replace anything but I've used it to enhance the course materials and students engagement with the course materials while giving them practice and hopefully increasing these things like meta memory. Great, thank you. Any time we're using a new tool like this, there's always a learning curve and it's often tricky to be picking a tool because you kind of need to learn how to use it to know whether it's gonna work in your context. I'm wondering, Siobhan, can you tell us for yourself? How did you find the learning curve for using H5P and why did you decide to stick with it? It's a few years ago now. So the learning curve, I don't think it was any one moment because I just shared the virtual tour which happened with COVID and I've been using H5P embedded within Tapestry like Steven for a number of years. So I think it kind of, and I was very lucky to be working as you, Kaylee also said with some amazing RAs, really supportive and then obviously the H5P team. So what I do like about it is it's pretty forgiving in that you make a mistake. It's very much a WordPress space. So if you have any experience working with Canvas or any WordPress-based platform or structure, it's pretty forgiving and allows you to edit and experiment. So why did I stick with it? Honestly, just the feedback from students. It was incredible to see how much they enjoyed being able to feel. And I will say the one thing that I know we're still working on is embedding it within Canvas so that we can remove the extra step of Canvas quizzes because in order to include it in the grade book that's still a step that I have to do. But that hasn't been a huge obstacle but they really like the fact that they are not just reading content but actively engaging with it and answering questions. Yeah. Thank you. And Alina, as a student who was working alongside faculty to help create H5P questions, how did you find it was for you in terms of a learning curve of using H5P? Did you find you were able to jump right in? Did it take you a while? Do you remember? Yeah, I think, I mean, given I joined working with you on H5P in my second year of my undergrad I'd never worked with any type of software before not even Canvas software. I feel like it was very intuitive to use even for someone who had no experience at all. And after you showing me a couple of times kind of how to use it and know the way that you can design problems I was also designing problems on my own and leading the designing of the questions and found it completely user friendly and I was also able to do that despite having no prior experience in it. Wonderful. We've heard from a couple of the panelists about some of the benefits of H5P and why they've stuck with it and used it in their courses. Steven, I'm wondering what have you found that using H5P has allowed you to do that other tools have not? Yeah, good question. Well, I mean, in terms of interactives I think it's great in that way. It's open source and it's reusable so you can actually find widgets that have already been made online and then embed them in your course, download them and embed them in your course. I think that's a key component is its reusability and the ability to share content that you've created with other people who would like to use that content as well. It basically builds the community out more and H5P is a growing community. I remember attending their conference, their H5P conference in Australia several years ago and then it was just starting to pick up speed and now I see it at full steam. Their developers are great, by the way, very supportive and easy to reach out to. From your point of view, in terms of thinking of things that H5P can do that other tools can't, I imagine that you've worked a lot with helping faculty pick whether H5P is the right tool for them or something like Articulate Storyline. Can you tell us about when you think H5P is the right tool for a faculty or staff member and how it compares to other tools and how they might be able to make that choice of whether it's the right tool for them? All right. I think the biggest thing compared me to other tools is the learning curve. Things like Articulate Storyline or even if you have a whole bunch of other tools online that are different websites and you have to remember different passwords, it's really nice that H5P is all in one spot. The learning curve is really not much compared to the other tools that people can use. Articulate is quite expensive and it is more robust and I think it's good for developing like e-learning modules that are really well planned out that you plan on keeping for a number of years but I have noticed soon as the software gets updated sometimes it impacts your stories. H5P has been pretty stable. I've been using it for a number of years and the updates haven't really impacted the way that the interactions function. It's accessible for most interaction types and that's always indicated on their website. So I like that. The interactions are quick to make, you can adapt them, you can embed them and take them into like WordPress or in your Canvas course. I guess it would really depend on whether they want their content to be secure then I would say use something like Articulate. But for the most part, faculty that I've worked with that have been introduced to H5P, they've gone off and they've produced amazing stuff and I've just been blown away. So I find it's something that people really adapt to easily. So talking about, thank you very much Pam. Talking about learning, learning curves and the like there's a question from the chat saying what is one thing you wish someone had told you about H5P before jumping in and building activities? I think I'd like to ask this question to Siobhan and then over to Kaylee. So Siobhan using these very sophisticated instances of H5P is there something you wish someone had told you before you started diving in? I saw that question Siobhan, I was thinking about it. Again, I guess maybe I have a short term memory at the moment but I'm trying to think back of when I started using it and I think it's hard because I take the approach to educational technology of it's not a tool that is there to achieve a specific goal for me. It's something that's there for me to play around with and to experiment with to meet my learning objective. So I've written about this, I preach about it no end anyone who knows me well but we need to stop treating educational technology as like a stat like this is the answer it's more how you use it not what it'll achieve for you. So as with any of these tools I would say the same about H5P just not to be afraid to play around but to go in with, we've all talked about some of our favorite types of questions types of ways of presenting the information in H5P I would say like before you even start using it like be very clear about what you're trying to achieve with using it. And I think that's clear with all of us here on the panel we had a very specific aim or objectives a few of them when we started using the tool. So I think if you're just find it shiny and fancy and that it won't work for you you have to have a very clear objective for you and for your students. So that's what I'd say. That's a fantastic answer and like I will admit to being guilty to seeing H5P and all the different content types and seeing it as something shiny and new and when creating content getting a little bit frustrated because I couldn't use it in the way that I'd envisioned it because I actually hadn't sat down and thought well, what am I trying to achieve with this and then doing some planning? So I would love to echo that statement with a lot of things with H5P knowing why you're using it when to use it and then planning plays such a key role. Thanks everyone, that's a great answer. Kaylee, so in what context do you choose to use a tool other than H5P and why? And we spoke about Canvas quizzes why not just use Canvas quizzes for everything? Yeah, so I suppose I primarily in terms of making questions for my students use H5P for formative assessment and Canvas quizzes for summative assessment. So I would pick a tool other than H5P if what I'm after is something really grades-based where I also really wanna know what has each student answered in detail rather than say just like a score or something. And so I still find Canvas quizzes helpful but what I like about H5P is that it allows me to take a question and embed it right where that learning opportunity is so that a student can practice it immediately after and be able to see did I understand what I just read whereas a Canvas quiz is some separate thing that's all sitting together and it kinda has this extra stress about it as it's a quiz. So to me H5P takes that away and I'm able to have the flexibility of placing it wherever I want. One of the things that I still find Canvas quizzes very helpful for is because in chemistry we have some computation, I find that anything where I'm wanting to mark with complex numbers or set up a question where I say the numbers are changing for each time that you see the question and it's marking with a formula or something, that's something that H5P can't currently do. And it's also something that H5P isn't great at smart interpretation of numbers like scientific notation and stuff. So if I wanted to be asking that sort of thing I would still use something like Canvas quizzes but for quick conceptual checks and like in situ learning H5P is what I find most powerful. Thank you very much. You mentioned one of the benefits of H5P is that it can be embedded right to where the students is learning and obviously feedback is a key important about that and we went on about how to do feedback for a number of the H5P content types but some H5P content types don't allow for detailed feedback. What do you do when that happens, Kaylee? Yeah, so usually if I can for the question I'm trying to ask if there's a content type in H5P that allows for feedback I use that one. But in the times where there is a content type that is really the right one for the question I want to ask but it doesn't offer feedback Alina helped me look through all the student feedback on our questions that we had for H5P. One of the things we found was that when we were using those questions without feedback students were getting frustrated because they wanted to know well what is the full solution or what are more details. So what we ended up doing for those types of questions is we still ask them using the feedback using the content type that didn't have feedback because that was the best tool for the question. But we ended up adding an accordion right after the question that had the detailed solution where a student could pop it out and see lots of explanations of why that each one was the answer or why it wasn't the answer and they seem to be much more satisfied that they then had access to that after the question. I'm going to just pop in quickly which I see Paul from the chat has a question I'm wondering Novak I don't know if you know the answer to this the question was can H5P interface with web work as far and web work being something that is much better for computational type questions as far as I know the answer is no but I'm wondering Novak if you know more than that. I was just answering the previous Paul's question which is around the integration actually the XAPI or collecting stats about the different skills or student performance and so on about integration with web work to be honest I'm not familiar with it I don't think there is a potential for that but I might be wrong so I have to say I'm really not, I don't know that but going back to Paul's previous question around the so I just want to say that most H5P modules are XAPI ready and if you look at the inventory of all the H5P modules that are available on H5P.org or modules that people have written outside of H5P.org there is usually a place that it says if it's a XAPI ready or not and XAPI is a protocol that allows integration basically just collecting any sort of information that you would like to keep from students interaction with your module and then store it typically outside of H5P which is a sort of a great idea and XAPI as a concept has been popular for quite a few years simply because it allows institutional sort of a third party kind of or independent learning locker or learning record store to store critical information from various sources. So for example, if you're running a course in Canvas and you're collecting certain data there and now you're having an H5P work or doing something in WordPress you may be able to collect all that information in a consistent format and store the key kind of performance indicator in a same way in the same database and then analyze them in a consistent way so you can actually have just apples and not mixing apples and oranges that we do quite often. So again, it's system is designed to support that and again, going back to web work it is possible but perhaps the part of the solution could be there I'd say I'm really not that familiar but again, the XAPI as a concept is implemented in H5P and it does require quite a bit of custom development to get there. So it would be great to have sort of institutional approach to find kind of typical patterns in terms of collecting data what kind of programs that are professional programs what kind of attributes do we have and that we need to store how similar they are so we can sort of implement a solution that could satisfy the most needs on campus. Fantastic, Lukas, I see you have your hand up. Yeah, sorry to jump in Novak, I was wondering also if you could speak to the current state of H5P so not with custom coding, et cetera and how much data can be gathered from it. So just kind of for the average user right now who jumps in what data they're able to get. Well, right now, basically the UBC's H5P instance as of today, it has been implemented so that we do not basically the intention is to create modules that you can reuse elsewhere. So even though it is possible right now, we do not encourage users. Actually, let's kind of put the roles here. So we have an instructor role and a student role. Instructors can create content as well as students. So everyone with a valid CWL or UBC certification can actually log in and create content in order for data to be stored the consumers of the content have to also be logged in. Right now, we don't encourage that even though it is entirely possible and then depending on how the modules have been implemented, some of them sort of support data collection, some of them don't but whatever was originally sort of implemented within the given module that will be available. But again, our intention with the current state of H5P at UBC is not to use it simply because we have to take one step at a time and the original intention was to develop the modules and then host them elsewhere, Canvas, UBC blogs, any other platform where you can embed content students can sort of consume it but the intention was that data is not being stored. So theoretically what could happen which might be a little bit confusing. So just a heads up on there is that somehow some students may actually log into the H5P even though it's highly unlikely. So if you create a module and paste it and put it in your Canvas course, students, as Simon was saying, it'll be kind of an integral part of your course notes of your course content. So there won't be a specific page to go to do your quiz or interactivity. So that's a beauty of H5P that flow. So they will see that module, they'll do what they need to do and they'll continue reading the text. So that's the kind of intended purpose. If the students somehow figure out the way where the content is coming from and find the H5P.ubc.ca, they theoretically could log in and then their responses will be recorded. If we ever want to do it and I guess as the community at UBC develops we are totally open to feedback and then we have to figure out what would be the best way. Would that be the native H5P ability to store some of the content or should we invest time into developing XAPI integration and store data into some sort of learning record store? So that's the question in front of us. And I think at this phase, I think it's still early to perhaps both, we don't know, but that's something to be kind of worked on in the future. Thank you. Nervek, I'm gonna keep with you. If we're thinking about future-proofing ourselves and wanting to make things as easy for ourselves as possible, I know I'm terrible with organizing my H5P library. It's just a bit of a mess. Do you have any pro tips on how to keep an H5P library organized? So again, we have implemented the... I'll just quickly go through the kind of UBC's implementation of H5P. So while for the most part, it is just H5P out of the box, we've already done a few things that are specific to UBC's implementation. One way to... So I'll start with the things that we've done. So obviously there is CWL, which is UBC's kind of unique configuration. So it is easy to find the place and login without having to remember yet another password. Additionally, we've seen that some instances, H5P.org and a few others do have a discipline list. So there is over, I think around 1400 disciplines, kind of scientific and social, basically pretty much the whole social and engineering studies have been sort of divided into this huge list of disciplines. So we've tried to implement that rather than having people kind of tagging their content, which usually becomes more of a notebook rather than a database. This way, if they start typing a certain thing, there will be a discipline that starts with those few letters and then they can choose from the list. I can demonstrate that later. So we thought that was a great addition. And for example, that could be a filter that where you can, when looking at your content, sort by the discipline and search for certain disciplines if you have things that belong into multiple disciplines. But that's definitely not the easy way to organize your libraries. So we've also implemented couple of changes into how you choose the license. Some of them are live, some of them are not yet. So we are encouraging the basically creative commons license and that's the default license within the H5P. So to, and then another important consideration was it took us quite a long time to understand the nature of H5P and how the modules has been sort of managed within a system. And apparently that's one of the kind of of the H5P attributes that are not really perfect. So the iffy, and just to cut the long story short, we had to run one instance of H5P for the whole of UBC. If we wanted to make an instance for let's say, it's psychology that was part of the larger instance for arts and so on, we could quickly run into dozens and dozens of different H5P instances at UBC. That would be kind of a nightmare to manage simply because there is no easy way to update all the modules at once. So you have to kind of manually or close to doing it manually update your modules. And the consequence of that is that we are going to end up with thousands of users within the same instance. And that's why what Simon is saying is kind of critical to sort of, we thought about that. So another thing we have implemented is the editor role. So right now we have the faculty groups. So every faculty support unit has the ability to see all of the people that are contributing within that faculty and they could run certain stats there. They could do quality control or advice or kind of just collect names so that offer workshops and whatever, but that's the kind of one way to organize content. Now we are looking into organizing ad hoc groups because we realize that just around faculty is not enough. So we need to be more granular in terms of the organization. And similarly, once we get to the on a personal level we can totally see the need of sort of organizing libraries for one person, but also perhaps a shared libraries in the future where multiple people can have access to. Also one thing to mention is that for the reasons of I guess compatibility across the multiple platforms. And as you know, HIP can run standalone that it can run as a part of either WordPress or Drupal or Canvas. So they had to make some calls and kind of really keep it the core not really integrated within the host platform. So to explain that better, HIP is not your typical WordPress plugin. It's just really another application. There is pretty black boxed and put within the WordPress. And from that perspective it is actually quite difficult to get in there and change the code, but we are doing that. And I would love to basically just share that on the H5P.open.ubc website you can find the page called roadmap. It's under about, I will share the link. Oh, thanks, Simon. So there we already have, I think seven or eight features that community has requested so far. Some of them, actually one of them is in progress. The rest are pending. And pending means basically we are kind of just negotiating what is the first thing that we should do and prioritizing things so that we can kind of move forward. Then again, like being able to have a library where you can find content and perhaps share with others it will be a great feature just the matter of what we hit first. Brilliant, thank you very much. I had that roadmap ready to go because listening to what you're saying I know that you are very responsive and want to hear what at least the UBC community would like to have. So thank you very much for that. I see a couple of comments from the chat talking about tags often help with keeping things organized though. It would be great to have some metadata standards to encourage reuse for tags. And then some other people have come up with some, Rie actually came up with a great suggestion saying that having a consistent title of your H5P component helps. So have course title, module title and project title. These are all excellent ways of helping keep your H5P library organized. We've got two more questions under this theme of getting started. And so Stephen and Chavon, I'm going to throw it out to you too. Have you taken any considerations to make your H5P elements that you author as accessible as possible and any tips for what to keep in mind in terms of making accessible content? Can you define what you mean by accessible? Content that is, for instance, screen reader friendly. Okay, yeah. Okay, well, okay, two things. One is abroad. I believe generally that this is not the specifics of accessible tech accessibility, but what H5P allows you to do as we've all been talking about is to present information in different ways and have different types of questions. And that in itself is addressing different student needs because students have different ways of learning and different ways of engaging. So I would say that in itself is an accessibility plus allowing students to engage in different ways. To the specifics of it, the virtual tour that I created will, it was created because of COVID, but it made me realize in the past, I'd had to adapt various field trips to meet the requirements of some students that I had that had accessibility issues. But I realized with the H5P virtual tour that that addresses that concern. And so, I can thank COVID for that, but that is the ability that we can offer different types of interactive materials, some that are in person and with H5P, some of the students can do on their own. In this case, it's the ability to go on a field trip virtually. Yeah, but then to other types of accessibility, no, that there's definitely things I want to explore, but those are the two points that I'd raise. Fantastic, I love that idea of the virtual tour making these types of things more accessible. So thank you for that. Stephen, do you have anything, any additional considerations? Yeah, well, every H5P widget has accessibility, all texts available and other accessibility features. I just popped in the link almost simultaneously with Emily, a link to the accessibility of each H5P widget. It's a breakdown maintained by the H5P team. So you can see from that list, for example, which widgets are accessible, for example, to screen readers and other things. Another accessibility concern obviously is bandwidth. So people who have low bandwidth internet, we have to be mindful of that. A lot of students don't have the high speed internet that other people do. That's an accessibility issue as with anything. So if you're doing something that's, if you're ever doing something that's high bandwidth, like video, especially high resolution video, it's always good to maintain a copy of the script for the video. If there's dialogue on the same page as a downloadable file, I think that's really important for accessibility for students. That's a great answer. And that made me, the creation of bandwidth also reminded me of using certain programs that have sort of adapted bandwidth features. I think Kaltura is able to adapt the quality of the video they could send through, depending on the available bandwidth. Having asked that question, I know that the H5P kitchen, which is sort of run by BC campus and Alan Levine has a fair amount on accessibility. So there's a link over there searching for all of the articles on accessibility over there. So we will post these and those other links on the Symposium website. Siobhan, I'd like to go back to you for the last question in sort of getting started with H5P. Have you used H5P more or differently in the time since instruction moved primarily online? You've spoken a little bit about that, how COVID has sort of made you rethink these things. And are you going to continue to use it in the same way as we go back to in person? Well, I actually started using topistry and H5P long before the pandemic. And the idea was, as I said, for me, what's really important is kind of engaging students in active learning. And rather than just what I had done originally was having them do group activities in the classroom, I was moving more towards a blended model, so having my courses. So students would do some of the work before they came to class. And then we would use the class time to actually really engage. And they would already have had the opportunity to have interacted with the material. So that's really how I used it in the pandemic. The only difference was the face-to-face element was on Zoom. The one big difference, I would say, is the virtual tour. That came out of the online teaching. So moving back into, I won't be teaching, well, we'll see when this course will be taught again in the first year course. But I certainly intend to keep the same model of the blended where the students engage with the content prior to coming to class. And then we engage together in conversation and discussion. And as I said, I will definitely keep the, at this year, I gave my students, my first year students last term, the option of doing the virtual or doing the in-person. And I probably had about a third that did the virtual. Some because they were not in Vancouver and some because they, for different reasons. But so I think I will continue to do that. And again, it gives students autonomy and lets them feel like they have a say in the way that they're engaging and learning. Thanks, Siobhan. I see a couple of questions from the chat that I just wanted to address. So if someone asked, can someone speak a little bit about the support you've all had? Some faculties have a lot of support and others do not. So from my own experience, in terms of getting started with H5P, I had a TLEF grant from UBC to be creating an online textbook. And so it was through that that I was able to receive some support through the Faculty of Science IT department. So through Skylight. So Skylight was able, and my own home department through the funding that I received were able to help me get my own instance of WordPress up and install the H5P plugin and get that all set up. And that part is now completely taken care of given that Novak's team has set up for everyone at UBC to be able to access and author H5P at UBC. So in terms of actually learning how to make H5P content and that sort of side of it, that was all just self-study since H5P.org does have a lot of good documentation as to how to get started. And that's also why we wanted to run this symposium today was to offer some of that support. I'm wondering Siobhan or Simon or Steven, did any of you receive support in terms of getting started with H5P in a similar way that you wanted to share? Well, it's my continued frustration and in my new role as Associate Dean. It's like there is very little support for innovative approaches to teaching and learning at UBC aside from at TLEF. And yes, I did receive a TLEF. Otherwise there's no way I would have been able to do most of the work that I did. And TLEF and also as, you know, Steven and I and Simon and Kaylee, we were, well, you are, but I was a member, a faculty member in Vantage and that also gave me some support in terms of coming up with alternative ways, especially with different types of learners and learners for whom English is an additional language. So yeah, unfortunately that's the reality that this is, it's great that, you know, it's amazing what Steven has accomplished with Tapestry and then others with H5P, including your textbook Kaylee, because it means that the, you know, Novak and others and Aiden on Steven's Tapestry team are supported through the various TLEFs that we get, which means that we can offer them to other instructors and other faculty members and students, of course. But there really isn't a firm, there isn't a proper infrastructure at UBC for supporting innovative technology and teaching and learning. I suppose I can speak briefly as well. I had an external grant from BC Campus who were looking at trying to create, increase use of OER and H5P, partly inspired by the work of some of the colleagues, including yourself Kaylee here at UBC. And so I had the support of BC Campus who had a praise books instance up and running for me and they installed the H5P in the praise books, which was fantastic. And so that's, you know, I was able to focus then on just using the content as well. And so I was very lucky that I've had that, but I'm also very grateful now that we have, Novak and his team have spun the UBC service up with H5P instance on that. Great, thank you, Shavon and Simon for sharing about the support you'd received as well. Another question that I saw from the chat was asking about how feasible it would be to extend H5P to include in-class interaction. In terms of, I'm not sure if this is quite, Paul, I think you asked this question. I'm not quite sure if this is what you're getting at, but I do use H5P for in-class interaction, but it tends to be. So I create an H5P element before and I have it in a website. I share the link with students. And so they're exploring something live. For example, some of the different image content types allow you to have different images blend together. And so students are able to shift along and kind of see something happening that it can be harder for me to just show in-person when I want students to be able to really explore, like, okay, what happens when I change this parameter, that parameter, and the image is changing to show them what's happening. Simon, I think you've used H5P during class as well. Can you share what you've done? I'm trying to think now how I've used H5P during class. That's noticeable difference. Oh, yes. So in class, what I do is that I find within PowerPoint, it's a little bit of a clunky workaround, but I often in psychology introduction, we're talking about the history of psychology. And so I will create a timeline that then I can embed directly into my PowerPoint presentation and then use that as, which makes my PowerPoints a lot more, I don't know, sleek or interactive. It just looks pretty cool. And then I'm able to link back to my PowerPoints from the slides. And then sort of similar to Siobhan, there's a concept called the just noticeable difference, which is basically the amount of change in a stimulus that you can detect depends on the context around you. And so that's a little bit more difficult to describe so dryly in words. And in class, I can do an actual demonstration with a $2 coin and an envelope versus a $2 coin on a book. But I created an H5P element where I have a black background and a yellow circle that when you drag goes from slightly dimmer to slightly brighter. And when you do the same increase in brightness, but you've got a white background, it's imperceptible. So that helps demonstrate some of these things in an online context. And then I've embedded that straight into the book. So someone who's reading through it and is not quite getting it is able to do that activity themselves right there. And then I would also like to just quickly flag up a parm. You've done a fair amount of workshops and wikis in terms of support. So do you have anything additional to add in terms of your support? Because as far as I understand, there was also somewhat of the side of your desk setting up all of these resources. And then if you're happy posting some of those resources in the chat, that would be wonderful. Yeah. I ended up piloting H5P. Remember our faculty was already using H5P. So when we did the official pilot, we did do some workshops for our faculty and we do have some resources on the ETS website. And then also all the UBC wiki. So I can put that in there. Thank you very much. That would be awesome. And we'll stick that up on the website as well. We're going to move on now from that first kind of getting started part of our panel. And we're going to be looking into the student experience with H5P as consumers of the questions, as authors of the questions and as authors of the questions, sorry, as authors of the questions for helping with the workload of creating things for a course, but also as authors in terms of assessment. And then after that, we'll move on to the final part of the panel, which we've actually ended up touching on already a bit, which is kind of more the tech and sharing and analytics side of it. So jumping into the student experience for being questioned consumers. Alina, this is what we're looking to you for. What was your experience like using H5P integrated into a textbook when you were a student in the course? Yeah, so for context, I at the website where the textbook was an online textbook, right? So we had a section of content that you would read just like a normal textbook, but the difference being that because it was an online textbook, there was an integrated H5P portion that was like an immediate check your understanding at the end. And I'd say one of the biggest benefits taking, like doing those questions at the end was that it allowed for active reading of that passage and immediate kind of checking in to make sure that you actually understood it in a more interactive way than perhaps just listing the question out and having the student read it and think about it by physically having kind of like a multiple choice question or connecting the dots or moving things around. It was a much more active way to engage in the material and make sure that you actually understood it. And when I was a student taking that course and reading that textbook myself, I found it a very, very user friendly and almost like logical thing to do if the questions had been separate, I might have been inclined just to have read the passage and move on but with having the questions right there and having them be so easy with like just a clicking the box, you're on your computer already. It's a very simple way to check your understanding. It almost promotes the student to do that activity much more so than anything else would. And when I was taking the course, did all the questions, when I was reading it and even at the end before my final exam went back and just redid the questions to make sure that I still knew what was going on and it was, I remember being almost wanting more questions cause I found them so useful, especially given that there's a variety of question types and they're quick and it's not like a big homework set that you have to kind of put yourself in the head space. You know, I have to do my long problem set now and study, it's just a little, you know 20 second question at the end. So you're almost able to review more and review the content right away which I think really contributed to my retention of the content in the textbook. Great, thanks so much, Alina. So we have students like Alina in a course consuming these questions, but one of the limitations of H5P that we've touched on is the limitation of not necessarily having widespread analytics available. Siobhan, I'm wondering if you can share with us without analytics necessarily widespread available for H5P, how do you assess whether your students are engaging with the material that you make in H5P and whether they're finding it useful? Good question. Well, two ways, I've been doing some, my own kind of a subtle research over the last couple of years. So I do entry surveys with my students at the beginning of the course where they haven't engaged at all. And then a check-in in the middle and then an exit survey at the end where they talk about the specific tools and how they help them meet the learning objectives. And then of course, what I do each week, so how I use the H5P is the students do that aspect and it should take them about an hour because it's the equivalent of about one of our lecture hours. So they go through the H5P content and then they answer a quiz on Canvas. So it's just interesting to see because this is where you can look at Canvas analytics and see how much time students spend and it's very clear to see those who spend more time their Canvas quizzes are, because they're pretty straightforward, they get 100% easily because the Canvas quiz is simply a mirroring of the answers that they would have done in H5P. So if they do those, if the H5P interacted, they simply have to put the answer into the quiz. So yeah, the actual research I'm doing, the Canvas quiz, and then just honestly asking students, you know, like it's like, so this week we're talking about ecological political ecology. It's quite a difficult concept. Can you, like what did you learn from the interactive content on H5P? Was it useful? So also just anecdotal qualitative as well. Yeah. So you've mentioned surveying your students before and after your course often. Have you seen any changes in outcomes since you have integrated H5P? Yeah, definitely. Students certainly, I mean, I can't say 100% that their knowledge of the content has changed, but what definitely is evident from the survey, and the survey includes both like quantitative multiple choice answers and then space for them to articulate is just the sense that they feel that they are more engaged with the course and especially a first year course and especially back to Simon's question area about online teaching, especially that we're in an online environment. They have, you know, not to be blow my own horn here, but the comments like with so much being online, this course was a joy because I didn't feel like I was just watching hours and hours of TV. You know, like I actually felt like I was participating and that's thanks to H5P. I'm not gonna take credit for that. So it's, yeah, those kind of comments come through on the qualitative part of the survey, but then just simply like I have a scale of like how was the H5P, the interactive content useful to your learning and overwhelmingly over 90% find it incredibly useful. Yeah, and the only frustrations they have are usually that they then have to go into Canvas and do a separate quiz. I'm like doing it twice will help you remember it. That's, it's so wonderful to hear that you're receiving feedback like that. And I think it's one of the things too that can help when you think about the time input that has to go into creating these sorts of things often that by surveying students and getting feedback that that helps it not just be, you know, putting work out into the void and knowing whether or not it is helpful in that way. All right, so now we're looking at the benefits of students. Sherf Hans, how many of you are students or have worked with students to author H5P content? So, okay, so then Alina and Kaylee. So for the two of you for student faculty collaboration on question authoring, what was the learning curve like not only in terms of using H5P but sort of creating the question itself and then creating it in a way that can be embedded in H5P and sort of how much time did onboarding and training take and was it worth it? So Alina, if you could quickly speak to that name Kaylee. For sure. So in terms of, I guess how we kind of approached this given Kaylee had experience working with H5P before and then she trained me on the software. The learning curve essentially looked like we wouldn't initially work on the problems together and I would provide more feedback in terms of like what I thought the question design should be and was just watching her essentially actually do the preparation of the question. And then after I kind of saw how to do it and had seen how to prepare the questions, I had a little bit more autonomy and was able to design questions outside of our meetings and then bring those to Kaylee and then Kaylee would give me the feedback. So the role kind of reversed in that sense once I was a little bit more familiar with how to use the software. And then yeah, I don't know if you have anything to add to that Kaylee before. No, I think that really covers it. I think exactly what Alina said is what I found quite fun about it, which was at the beginning it was more collaborative in the terms of like me making the questions with Alina coming with feedback from a student perspective and in our later time working together, she'd show up and be like, I had this idea and I created this thing in H5P. Wow, I've never thought to use H5P to do something like that. So she started bringing a lot of creativity with it as she got comfortable with it. So that was a great benefit of working with someone else is just having another creative mind in there of how we could use new, especially when there were new content types that were coming out, Alina was exploring them and seeing how they could apply to the course. That specifically being the branching scenario that she was exploring it for us when it first was released. So choose your own adventure type question was my question that I had designed. And then in terms of how often we would meet in our meeting structure, we were just meeting once a week for over the course of one term and then subsequently the subsequent year, another term. So it wasn't like it took hours and hours and hours of time. It was an hour a week, I can't remember an hour or two hours a week that we were kind of meeting and touching base. But I think we weren't able to kind of create a lot of really cool content together over the course of that timeframe. Fantastic. That's really good to hear that it doesn't take a lot and that there's not a lot of onboarding and that it tends to maybe be a little bit heavier at the front, but then you can take things and you can run. So in terms of having a successful faculty, student collaboration and getting efficient, high quality questions, do you have any tips for people who want to do this but don't necessarily know where to start? For me or Alina first. Since you've got your mic on, let's ask you, Kelly. Sure, so in terms of our workflow, it worked in various different ways. So sometimes it was, I'd say most of the time, Alina before our meetings had put a lot of time into going through student feedback because on all of our online textbook pages at the bottom, there's a little feedback section for every single page. And so she was going through all of those to see where students were saying that the questions were frustrating or anything that they didn't like. She was looking at what they said they did like so we could make more of it. And she was also reading through and seeing where she thought that we didn't really have enough practice for students or where they were indicating, hey, can we have more practice for this part? So she would be coming with the needs each week and then our meetings were very much working meetings where we would come up with ideas and at the beginning of our meetings where we would come up with ideas and we would actively be making questions there. I'd say that one of the things that is most challenging about implementing H5P is the workload because of course, making anything, any content and especially trying to make it with any form of quality takes time. So for me being teaching multiple courses and having projects on the go, I found it very hard to dedicate time to creating more H5P content especially since after, say, my TLF grant had ended. And so what I found really helpful about working with Alina was that there was this dedicated time in my calendar that when she was there, I knew I was going to make progress on H5P stuff because she was coming with ideas and we were gonna do it right there and get something done. So I found that super helpful because I think if I wasn't working with Alina I just wouldn't have continued to make questions because something would have felt more important in that hour if we weren't working together. So that was super helpful for me to continue to develop content. Yeah, and I think just to add on to that, I can confidently say that we did make a lot of progress even in that small one hour a week to two hour a week meeting where I remember the textbook when we kind of started on it had, did have some gaps where we had a lot of, the whole textbook was written but pages would be missing a practice problem at the end like Kaylee mentioned, or they wouldn't have a very thorough flushed out answer and or question. And then by the end of our work together, I think the textbook every single section had at least one question on it. So there was at least one check your understanding interactive H5P on every single page of the textbook, which I think is an incredible amount of progress despite it was not a crazy amount of input. I mean, I was working on my own time for the meetings in preparation to an extent, but it wasn't anything. I mean, I was enjoying my work with it and from the student kind of learning perspective, I think I gained a ton and just so much from working on that too. So for me kind of contributing from as a student to a book that I had just used the previous year in my course, it allowed me to just kind of experience it from kind of a teaching perspective as well as just get so much out of it. So it was, I think a great experience from both sides. That's a great answer. Thank you very much. It's fantastic to hear both of those, the sides of the coin. Now, a question for Siobhan and then I don't know, Stephen, if you have anything to add on top of this and this is Siobhan, something that is a question I stuck in here because I'd love to hear. We've been talking a lot about how H5P can be used for formative assessment to practice types of things, but I understand that you've actually also used it for a summative assessment as part of being assessed for the course. How have you gone about doing that and what should one keep in mind when setting up these types of assessments? I've used it with my fourth year. So it's like integrated again into tapestry. And so it's my fourth year geographies of the Middle East course where they create a digital story of a project that they're researching on. They have the option of embedding H5P content. So it's optional. The advice I would give, and I only tried it for the first time, didn't teach the course this year, so last year. Again, it does take a lot of support from the team and Stephen and Aiden are amazing. And also I would be a little bit more hesitant to try it with a 100 or 200 level course at the moment. This is a 400 level and I had 30 students so I certainly could support them. And I had the time and the capacity to do so. But I will say that as in the same way that students love feeling engaged in terms of the formative, like them being feeling like they're part of the course and the same thing. The students just love the ability to create and then to have something at the end to show and that lives on. So I keep all of these in tapestry and they live on for the next group of students to look at and to engage with. So yeah, it's a very minor piece that I've done so far. I'm not minor, but experimental I'll say. But it's worth it when the students you get the reaction that they just feel that they're being creative, they're creating an artifact that will live on beyond the course and something that isn't just a term paper that will go in someone's drawer. That sounds really powerful. And I can imagine for incoming students seeing, hey, here's one of these notes created by one of my previous students. I could have this type of impact for future students. I can imagine this is also especially motivating. Exactly, yeah. Stephen, do you have anything to add? Yeah, so I have used it for some of the assessments in the sense that students are creating content, as I mentioned earlier. And I just want to mention one thing you want to watch for if you are asking students to create H5P widgets is that you should specify which types. So if you're looking for something that's highly creative, make sure you say which types of H5P widgets don't leave them to their own devices because you'll have a whole bunch of multiple choice widgets and that is not too exciting to see. And I would also mention with respect to the previous question that I mean, there is a lot of tension between amount of time that you have to put into the creation of these widgets. And I would suggest as Siobhan was suggesting that you involve students in that creation process by making them create H5P widgets and sharing them with their classmates and then with their permission, allowing that content to live on past the particular class session that they're taking. It bypasses a lot of the content creation bottlenecks that you would run into if you were trying to do this all yourself. And it also makes them feel like they're active contributors in the class. That's my cat, sorry. A wonderful addition to the panel. So Siobhan and Stephen have both spoken about when students are creating these questions that they are kind of able to live on and continue to be reused. I'm wondering Simon, when you were creating content, do you have an eye to that? Do you turn on the embed function on your H5P elements? Do you assign a creative commons license? Yes, I sort of one of my main goals with using open education resources is to make things open and affordable and accessible. And there's the videos, these branching interactive videos that we've created take a lot of time and so not everyone may have that time. And so just trying to make it as freely available as possible for me is very much within the, for me personally at least, it's very fits within my open education philosophy. So I turn on the embed function and I think I use the second most free creative commons licenses that is only attributions required that people can remix, they can download, they can reuse however they wish. And Novak in terms of making questions that are creative commons or remixing others questions for a creative commons, are there any plans to be integrating the UBC based H5P authoring tool with any form of repository? Is that currently on the roadmap? So specifically for the H5P content or well, yes. So we do plan to basically have a front phase to all of the content that is being tagged as for sharing and also have a CC license associated with it but also other content as well if people would like to feature it on the website. And that's why we sort of have taxonomies such as the academic disciplines as well as the faculty. So people can quickly kind of go through things and look for let's say a certain academic discipline within for example, faculty of arts. So in terms of the front sort of facing pages, we have a couple of places that we use as inspiration and we are hoping to do better. We are also looking into kind of the wider open initiative where we do have different types of open content available from textbooks to other stuff and looking into how can we sort of make sort of more holistic approach to open content at UBC where H5P is just one category of open content but also without compromising the ability to quickly locate the H5P content that you might be interested in. So kind of between these two requirements one promoting the open and putting under the same umbrella to also being able to quickly find and reuse content we're trying to sort of work on that. And that's definitely one of the things that we are definitely committed to. That's not, yeah, that's a solid part of the roadmap. All right, thank you very much Novak. We're gonna move into a lot, we've got 10 more minutes left. So we're gonna move into our last section and highlighted a couple of questions in terms of tech, knowledge and tech support. So Palm, I'd like to ask you please how can one author H5P elements other than using H5P.com or UBC's H5P hub? Are there other ways that we can go about using H5P? Yeah, so the Wiki page that I sent the link has a nice little outline about the different ways to use it. So there is the H5P.com, we've got our open hub, our faculty of education has our WordPress instance. There is a third-party tool called Lumie. So you can download that. You can actually download existing H5Ps and then edit them and then upload them to wherever you like. That is a third-party tool. So it was a little bit stable about a year ago. It's been pretty stable right now. It's the H5P format. It comes down, downloads it, it opens up and it doesn't look very different. There doesn't do any changes. So the H5Ps remain intact. It's pretty intuitive software, it's not very complex. The nice thing about that is you can actually export it as a Scorum object and then you can bring that into your account in this course as an assignment and then you can collect some reading data. And that varies on the different interaction types. So you can get more robust data, some you don't. Fantastic, so you would be able to download from Lumie as a Scorum package and then embed it as an assignment and then the student's completion of that can then count towards their grade. Yeah. Fantastic, thank you very much. So talking about grades, oh sorry, talking about Lumie, talking about all these different ways in which we can create H5P content, specifically from a UBC perspective, Novak, if someone has been at UBC and they've been ordering H5P content in other places, should they move their content to UBC's open H5P tool? Well, yeah, that's a great question. I have to say I'm not familiar with other places outside of the H5P.org. So I guess the benefit of using UBC is that it is sort of designed to serve kind of the higher ad context and also the fact that we are listening to audience and trying to kind of create a roadmap that is meaningful. So I would say yes. I mean, I also have to say that it's early days so you're literally like we're still under the soft launch. So yes, I think it would be, I wouldn't completely shut down my previous install or place that I was hosting the H5P content but I would definitely give UBC's H5P a try because I think it is a good environment and hopefully you'll like it better. Thank you very much Novak. So we're coming up to the end of the panel and I had a closing question usually when you do a quick closing a panel you try to do a quick closing question where each panelist says something but we've already answered it. The question was the goal of symposium is to get started. So do you have any advice for what you wish you knew when you got started or how to get started? And so if I may just paraphrase you if one gave some really good advice on be very strategic about why you are using it. H5P is the tool, it's not the master. So make sure that you are aware of why you're using it. And I suppose we have these afternoon sessions from one to 3 p.m. built in where you can get started. You can start playing around and we have one on one expert interactions, expert consultants that you can ask a lot of these questions too. So I would really like to thank the panelists. Usually this is the time where we would hand out some flowers to say thank you very much or chocolates or something like that. We do have some gift cards to thank you for your time and we'll be contacting you and passing those on. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. It feels like we could actually go on for another hour and a half just talking about this but we really appreciate your time and your expertise and your knowledge and your willingness to share this. We are going to go into our second studio in 10 minutes time. So at 10.35 we're going to be looking at some of the other H5P contents that are a little bit more advanced, creating essay questions, branching interactive videos. And so I think it'd be, let's give ourselves a quick 10 minute refresher break and we'll see everyone back at 10.35. Once again, thank you to all our panelists and we'll see you soon.