 Should this Asian guy delete all dating apps because he's not finding enough success on them? Or does he just need to learn how to play the game differently? Yeah, this is based off a viral thread on Reddit. Long story short, Andrew, there's this guy I'm gonna pop up photos right here. I'm just gonna call him Ben Zang, because it kind of looks like a Ben Zang. And he basically said over the past three years, Andrew, he's been on all the dating apps. He's only been on six dates. He mostly is looking for white or Latina women. He's 5'11 Ivy League educated. He's got pets. He's got photos of him hiking. He's got a good career. How come he's not having any success? All right, everybody, we're gonna go into the nuance of this. Also go into what a lot of the other Redditors had and advice that they had. Also, our own advice, without knowing this guy personally and sitting down with him face to face, this is all we can say. This is all I can do to help him. So please hit that like button. Check out other episodes of the Hot Pop Boys. Immediately, Andrew, I gotta ask you, are you surprised that Ben Zang here is struggling? No, because I don't know how he's operating, bro, because not just based off his photos, he's not in horrible shape, but he could be too picky. He could be looking in the wrong places. There is definitely a technique to the dating apps, and I hope that this is just a reminder to anybody who's ever used them. But yeah, I mean, I'll go through the points. Yeah, so make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications. I think real quick, thought-wise, the first thing that stuck out to me was like, I'm mostly looking for white women and Latina women, where I was like, yeah, with this type of profile, even if you went Ivy League, because honestly, they may not even care about that if you look too stereotypical. Hey, sometimes you're just looking for the wrong thing or looking for the tough to find treasure or something. Whatever it is, guys. Anyways, guys, let's get into it. Here's six things I'm gonna go over quickly just to remind everybody that these are the things that you need to be successful on the dating apps. One, good content. Obviously, your photos need to be good. One, even if you have, like if you're catering, if you're looking for like Hispanic women, for example, if that's your preference, you might wanna have something on your profile that shows that, like you eating Latin food or out of Salsa class or something like that. Well, that's at the very least, right? It'd probably be better to have photos in that country or something like that. Exactly. I mean, I'm assuming if you are like a computer science engineer from Ivy League school, you have the money to go take the vacations to get the photos. Yeah, number two, stamina and mental and emotional fortitude to handle all the rejection you will have. Everybody gets rejected, even my friends who are assigned models who are on the dating apps who generally it's a lot easier for them. They still get rejected by some girls. Ghosting happens all the time, conversations drop off. How are you gonna deal with that emotionally? Can you take it? It's very important. Number three, knowing what you're looking for. Now, this comes to whether you're looking for fun experiences you just wanna date around or you want long-term relationships, something worthwhile that's gonna change your technique and your tactics on how you approach the game. Just to apply it to benzene situation, I wouldn't be surprised if it's almost like his profile looks like he's looking for a long-term relationship with a Chinese church girl, but then in his mind or his heart, he might be desiring short-term experiences with white and Latin women. David, this is like playing chess and being like, yeah, well, I'm trying to get to the queen and the king first, so how come I'm not winning this chess match? Anyways, guys, technique is very important. Obviously, the questions you ask, how you move the conversation along, even where you choose to go on dates so you're not spending too much, start at the middle level, maybe just go out for drinks, dessert, coffee, instead of going for that juggernaut, big date, omakase, spending hundreds of dollars, not good, not a good tactic. I guess unless you got it like that. Yeah, unless you're a millionaire, then do that. Other than that, next, small investment. It's gonna take some money. Please, please, please pay for the tools that make things better. Pay for the more swipes. Pay for the roses or the coins or the VIP if and really take the game seriously. Right, so you're saying that the paid upgrades that oftentimes, I guess, probably realistically guys that wanna meet girls on the apps are encouraged to purchase, they will change your experience. Dude, that's like saying, yo, I wanna learn how to golf. I have a little money, but I'm gonna buy the cheapest golf clubs possible. Right? No, it's true. You wouldn't do that. Also, again, last but not least, location and environment, always switch it up, change where your neighborhood is placed, change where you're swiping, maybe you wanna swipe in Canada, maybe you wanna swipe in Toronto, maybe you wanna swipe in Atlanta, maybe you wanna swipe in DC, New York, wherever. And you might wanna switch the app, too, Andrew. Instead of being on Hinge in New York, this Ben Zing guy might wanna go on Tantan in Toronto. Oh! Yeah, it might be. Chinese apps and pictures. It might be night and day, man, who knows? Maybe you might wanna just go to a completely different country, but no, I'm basing this advice for America, by the way. Yeah, why do you think that dating apps are good for guys? I know there was a lot of arguing, even from successful guys that are good with women on both sides, like, it's really interesting. It's not just like one or the other, right? Like, a lot of people have a variance of opinion on this. Yeah, I think if you do not have a lot of social circles where you're constantly meeting single women or your homegirls are not constantly having you meet other women, right? Not everybody has that in their life. He does not use that word, homegirl. Or whatever. No, but you're- What's another term for that, when girls are just friends? Like, girlfriend. So you're saying that somebody, maybe club promoter, bartender, somebody who operates in the nightlife space. Okay, those are extreme cases, I would say. Those are extreme positions. But anyways, I think apps are good for Asian men and play into Asian men's advantage and strengths, because one, a lot of Asian dudes have careers like engineering and things where they're not meeting a lot of single women through their job. So they're not necessarily used to that. They're not marketing or sales, so maybe they don't have that natural social bravado- You're talking about STEM jobs. Yeah, STEM jobs. They're not necessarily gonna prepare you that. Maybe in the medical field, you're working around women more, but anyways, it takes you out from having to meet people at bars and clubs, which are very competitive in tough environments, by the way. Two, it exposes you to women outside of your own circles, women that you may not cross paths with, women who go to a completely different gym, who go to different parks- Yeah, let's be honest. We all live different lives in America. America's very diverse. There's a lot of different fish bowls that do not have any sort of overlap in the Venn diagram. And you might want, be looking at women from a different fish bowl. You have no access. The app theoretically could allow you to break that barrier. Allows you to reach women who are maybe into more like different niche subcultures that might play into your advantage. Maybe they're like the cosplay type. Maybe they like anime. Maybe like their Korea booze. Maybe they're into, maybe they're out traveling in Asia and they're into Asian culture. Whatever it is, maybe they're more exposed to it. There's not a lot of Amanda. Some girls are even sinophiles. Yeah. And then also, I think it prevents friend zoning. Friend zoning is something that happens to a lot of nice guys, no matter what race you are. But basically if you meet a girl on the apps, that's kind of like saying, hey, I'm here to date. So don't put me and the friends on that quickly. But why do you think some guys think that dating apps are bad? And there's even some record of some guys who are good with, you know, they do quite well with women that still go against it. Yeah, again, like if you have built up social circles, I don't think you need to be on the apps. I think meeting people in person is the ideal way, but the apps is the second best way. I think that just women are really picky and they get to be picky online. So if for whatever reason, this woman wants to discriminate against you or swipe left on you because you're Asian, because you look a little too nerdy because you don't have cool enough photos because you're not at cool parties. It is true that if he happens to be one of like, I guess an adorable, nerdy-looking guy, but he has extreme riz as the kids like to say, if you wouldn't see it on the app. Yeah. And different apps kind of have different market of people too between Coffee Meets, Bagel and Hinge. Anyways, David, those are my general points about dating apps when it comes to Asian guys. So hopefully that was either a good reminder or that was new knowledge to you. Right, it depends. Everybody's at a different point in their journey. But I'm not gonna lie. I've used the dating apps for many years of my life. Okay, so I feel like I have some perspective on this. Andrew, let's just be real here. I think that a lot of Chinese guys, specifically with parents from mainland China are gonna struggle a lot more with social IQ relationship reads. Then let's just say you're average Filipino guy. Sure. Because there's no coaching, especially if your parents were from mainland, especially, but all, I mean, by the way, I'm not saying all Asian guys are not at some like knowledge gap situation between the Western Hemisphere and the Eastern Hemisphere, but I just think the more traditional cultures or the cultures that more put at ultra heavy emphasis on STEM achievement or academic achievement, they're gonna be necessarily less spending coaching other things. We might not even have the knowledge base to begin with in that area. Because he knows maybe his mother at some time was like, yeah, Ben, don't worry. You know, you're a 5'11 and you went to Ivy League school. You graduated from Columbia. So you like the girls- And you have a big pizza. Yeah, your nose is big. That's what nose means. No way. And then it's like, oh yeah, you're fit. You're strong like your father. Like a lot of women are going to want to date you. And then Ben's like, well, I wanna date Hispanic and white women only. I haven't had any dates yet. I'm like, dude, because the thing is- Sophia Vergara, here I come. A lot of guys, unfortunately in the dating market, especially when it comes to getting a lot of dates, they tend to value their education. They're like, oh, I'm good if I went to Ivy League. It's not always the case, man. You know, that's just the way the world is. And especially, like I think if anything, more Asian women would value your education more so. You know what? Yeah, you're right. And he's looking for white and Latina. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I think an Asian church girl would really value the fact that he went to Columbia Ivy League school a lot more. But I also think sometimes the Ivy League guys, they're looking for their equivalent where they're like, they're looking for a really pretty girl who went to an Ivy League or Ivy League adjacent school and has a high-powered career. And that's just real difficult, right? Yeah, and I think being on the dating app, sometimes you're like, oh, I get to put my school and my job title. Ho-ho, girls are gonna be flocking. But the world is not gonna work how your Asian mom told you that the world is gonna work. Obviously, every parents teach their kids different things. I happen to have a lot of exposure to academic families. Academic parents, they don't really understand the social side of life. They might understand how to navigate academia and get papers published to get a PhD. But all this other social life, the club life, the online dating life, level zero. All right, everybody, we're gonna go into the specific advice that other people had for them and then we'll give our responses. Let's get into the comments section because this was a lot of Asian bros trying to help Asian bro. Yeah, somebody said maybe on your photos I can say that genetically you're slightly above average looking, but you have dorky fashion, you've got glasses, you're bound to get no matches, you lack edge, you look like a stereotypical nerd, you look like you're going to a Sunday church, you have terrible hair. And let's be honest, the nerd guy stereotype already hurts you in the Asian world, let alone it's gonna hurt you double or triple with white or Latina women. Whoa, this guy roasted him, but that was some tough love. What do you think about that? Like, I mean, he hit him with a flamethrower. Yeah, listen, like I'm just saying like, if you don't come from a marketing background because dating apps, essentially you're marketing yourself. You're selling yourself. You are putting yourself out on the dating marketplace. That's literally what it is. So a lot of guys are horrible at selling themselves. They undersell themselves or they themselves just don't have the strongest optimized tools. This guy made it quantitative, he said he's probably in the top 65, depending on how nerdy the girls are, 70th percentile. But let's be honest, you gotta be in the top 20 to 15th percentile to get any love on the apps. So that means you gotta work on yourself or lower your standards. He made it very statistical. No, obviously he just made these numbers up obviously. So these stats, they don't mean anything to me. But what I will say this, he makes a point that obviously like the top percentage of guys, you know, the model Asian dudes. You're saying our friends are what, six foot, six pack, blah, blah, blah, they're doing better. They get a lot of matches. They even get some roses, okay? Guys getting roses. Think about if you're a male rose on hinge. I don't get a lot of roses. Yeah, well, you know what? That's okay. But that's why I'm saying stamina is important in your mental and emotional fortitude for the apps. You can still meet a lot of people, but you gotta play the game correctly. Right, right, right. Somebody was saying, man, you are playing the game on extremely hard mode by filtering for white women and Latina women because they do not care that you are a great Chinese boy that went to an Ivy League school and has an engineering degree. They do not care about that at all. No, that, this is a real comment. I hope you read this one because I agree with it. And the truth is on his profile. Well, not everybody has Asian values, right? But from his profile, I cannot see anything that signifies that he is interested or knows anything about Latin or even white culture. Like where are you grilling your stakes in your backyard? Right? You're saying that's white, right? Yeah, that's white. Where are you at a salsa class dancing? Right, right, right. How do you know that you, like, if I only wanted to date Hispanic women only, if that was my preference, David, you better believe I would learn some Spanish. Yeah, this guy said, listen, guys, I get with a lot of non-Asian women and the key is as an Asian guy, you have to have big muscles and tattoos. Then all of a sudden it switches from extremely difficult to extremely easy because non-Asian types of women, once they're really into your look, they probably just go full head of steam ahead. So this guy was saying you really got to get the muscles and you really got to get the tats. And, but you know what the crazy thing is? Knowing this guy, Ben Zang, he's from a Confucian family. He was able to fill his parents' desires to go to Ivy League school, probably get a STEM degree. Getting muscles and tats, that ain't even on a table, in my opinion. No, I think getting muscles should be on the table. I think getting muscles should always be on the table. The tattoos, I understand, some families are, like, against it. A hundred out of a hundred against it. So I'm not saying I don't think you need tats, but getting muscles and showing them off, if you're fit and you're 5'11", you need to show that off. And first of all, if you're 5'11", you need to just put that you're six feet. So what are you doing putting 5'11"? So what are the guys like, but I don't really like eating that much protein because you know you got to eat a lot of protein to get buff. So I guess what I'm saying- Well, then just suffer the rest of your life then. Just suffer, just suffer. That's it. That's it. No, suffer if you don't even want to eat meat to get stronger than just, that's it. You're making it harder for yourself. You're not adapting. You're not doing the things you need to do. I love churrassey bowls. The fish doesn't have enough protein. No, salmon has a lot of omega-3. It's not the same as beef. Anyway, Andrew, let's get into our takeaways. Why did this thread go so viral? I think it went viral, even though it just seems so simplistic, because a lot of guys are like, damn it. You went to an Ivy League school. You've got a six-figure income, probably well into the six figures. And you can't even figure out level two out of 10 online dating advice. This goes to show you how unbalanced our culture is. Like, and by the way, it's not everybody's family. Like, if you're Donnie Yen's son or daughter, you're gonna have way more social IQ than if your parents are like PhDs or master degree academics from mainland China, right? I mean, listen, honestly, this guy, in my opinion, is in a pretty good position. He's only like three months and a makeover away from significantly doing better on the apps. I think so. Okay, yeah. Yeah, it's not hopeless. No, this is, I mean, five, 11 Ivy League fit body, like not ugly face. Like, dude, you're in a solid position. There's a lot of guys out there in a worse position. But I'm like saying, like, I just think he's not getting any coaching and giving advice on the internet is so hard because you're not able to sit down with these people and you don't know what they're messaging, who they're swiping on. If he has a super high standard and is super picky, his life will always be hard when it comes to dating. Always, even in person, it'll be hard. And I think a lot of people, they ask their friends for advice, but their friends are not professionals. That's like asking your friends for professional therapy. Your friends can be at ear, but it does not mean they've been coached like a high paid professional therapist. Like, just because they can perform the same function does not mean that it's operating at the same quality or affection. If you're trying to improve your health and get buff, are you gonna listen to your friend who actually got buff and improved their health or the friend who in theory knows how to do it but hasn't done it themselves? Like, who are you gonna go to? I'm saying, so here's my advice to Ben Zhang and anybody out there like Ben Zhang. You got, I think you have to seek advice from other guys who have done okay on the apps, who have found some success and know what they're doing. And then you have to just improve yourself individually, ultimately. And I think you have to understand that your parents really just didn't, they were good at some things in life, which allowed them to do some things, but there may be gigantic blind spots in their knowledge base. Yeah, and here's one thing that a lot of people are not gonna like to hear. This is maybe my slightly controversial advice. Lower your standards a little bit and just go on some more dates. Six dates in three years and you're 5'11 from an Ivy League school and you're not weird. Let's assume you're not weird in person. Excuse me, Andrew. I don't think that I would've gotten into that competitive program at Columbia had I lowered my standards. Improve your look, get a little bit more fit, show off your skeleton, your physique, and then lower your standards half a notch and go on more dates and learn from them. That's crazy. Also, you know, again, like if I would also say, try to FaceTime them before you meet up with them in person, before you spend any money. That's my little advice, guys. I think that is sound advice. That's just my opinion. You guys, let me know in the comments down below if you agree, disagree, because I'm just a guy who has maybe spent a few years too many on the apps, okay? That's all I'll say. Maybe I have. You know how many years I'm clocking? Let's be honest. You did a lot of tours overseas, man. Eight years. Eight years, baby. Yo, Jocko. You're the Jocko of this. I've been through how many Afghans and tours do you want. Anyways, guys, that's my advice to Ben Zang and everybody else out there. So hopefully this video was helpful. Again, seek proper advice, get it in person, improve yourself, build your stamina for the app game, because it's a- Let us know in the comments section if you guys know any guys like Ben. Everybody gets different coaching from the parents. Some people's dads were players. Some people's dads were completely the opposite of that. Some people's dads are really cool and they can't pass down their coolness and social skills to their kids, which is also weird. Yeah, you see that too. That's a good point. That's like a whole another video. Until next time, let us know what you think in the comments section. Keep it civil. We at Hop Hop Boys, we out. Peace.