 You can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. First British European champion 52 years. And the youngest? Yeah, youngest team to ever win it and we did it in the most mental way competing against guys with multi-million budgets and we got there through crowdfunding, 100% crowdfunding people chipping in to help us get there. I'd done the first half of the year getting into debt really. Leading the championship but I was driving terribly because I was so depressed from the pressure and the stress. My head was absolutely gone. I was still leading but I was driving terribly compared to what I can do. And when I was going through a bad time in the European championship even though I was leading, I was in the worst place of my life with depression. I felt completely on my own and my family was struggling as well. I didn't want to burden them with my problems. Bim maron, yes. And today's guest we've got Chris Ingram, how are you brother? Really good, you? Good mate, really good, really good new year, feeling good, feeling fresh, back at it. So yourself, one of the youngest I've had on the show, first British European rally driving championship, you're the first to won it in 52 years? Yeah, first British European champion in 52 years. And the youngest? Yeah, youngest team to ever win it and we did it in the most mental way competing against guys with multi-million budgets and we got there through crowdfunding, 100% crowdfunding people chipping in to help us get there so it was a massive, like, giant killing effort. Yeah, no backing, no funding which we'll all touch on that because I watched one of the things in the BBC documentary it was like skint to drive. So yeah, I don't really know much about rally driving obviously I know the legend which was Colin McRae, sadly passed away and we'll get into it man and there's root over and how it functions and how it works and how you get into it. As you know brother, I always go back to the start with my guests where you grew up and how it all began. Yeah, so I grew up around South Manchester and I was always the smallest, shiest kid and I didn't really know what I was doing and then one day my dad who is a massive rally fan used to drive, won quite a lot of stuff in the UK he took me to watch a rally in the forest in Yorkshire and from that day on I knew what I wanted to do I knew I wanted to be world champion and be a professional rally driver So your dad was in about it then? Yeah, yeah, my dad was, he was a really talented driver but he never took it seriously he was always turning up to rallies with a hand go over and no dedication. What about your sculling? I am, because I was small and you know about sex too, sex me? Yeah, I was a small, I got battered all the time you know, they used to chuck me into playing rugby and stuff I just used to get battered so I hated school I just always was thinking about rallying I did well in school and I'm naturally quite educated I come over as a dope but I'm not Yeah, and my focus was always on rallying and as soon as I got the chance my dad first got me the chance to drive when I was 15 in a Citroën C1 like your grandma drives to Sainsbury's Inn so I was so lucky that my dad helped me get into it and driving quad bikes and stuff like that but then my dad lost his business and we lost pretty much everything so he'd given me that first push thank god but then it was up to me to drive forward So even with the rally stuff I see a lot of Formula One drivers the kind that start off with go-karts did you go down that route? How do you start off being a rally driver? Most of the guys go through go-karts but even that's so expensive for anyone to get into it's a rich man's sport and the funny thing is my dad got me into it and then I've not had any money ever since I've blagged it to get to where I am pretty much and just I've got to where I am on talent and blagging I guess So when did you, what was your teenage years did you still learn how to drive then did your dad give you a shot at the car? Yeah so I won the junior championship me and my dad were running the car we didn't have a clue about mechanics or anything but we still turned up the car on the back of a trailer and won the juniors and then we got into the British championship in a Renault Twingo and we got some support from Renault and some sponsorship and I was lucky to carry on and that was sort of the start of thinking I've got a chance at this because I was winning awards and showing my speed and yeah I thought I've got to give this everything So when you passed your driving test what happens when you're fully licensed so seeing you won the juniors what are you driving then? On the road Yeah on the juniors what age were you? I was 16 when I won the juniors So what can you drive then? Only one litre rally cars It's the light, the light the hair dryers and how many stages are there different stages are there? So that was like seven rounds around the UK on private land It's a really entry level motorsport and then getting into the British championship was quite a big step and I just crashed all the time just had massive crashes Dangerous Do people die in the juniors? No There's not been any deaths for a long time in rally in such a word Good So how did you get into the big boys league? So I was doing well as a junior I did well in the British championship There was a lot of politics involved in the UK What do you mean? Because my dad was quite a controversial character If people didn't like him they didn't want me to do well and I missed out on a few things a few awards that I should have won So we went to France and got a lot more support funnily enough and then France led to the European championship which on my second event which was the circuit of Ireland it was probably the turning point in my career where I was beating all these top cars Cars worth hundreds of thousands I was beating most of them in a Renault Twingo and everyone was like this is insane Just this little twingo bouncing through the head I was just driving flat out and I won the Colin McRae award on that rally and that led to I actually destroyed the car and crashed on that rally but I still won the Colin McRae award but I destroyed the car and we were out of sponsorship I had no way to continue until one day I got a call from Peugeot UK and they said Chris we've been following you and we want to support you so I got two years fully funded which was a massive opportunity So what happens then if you get funding can you drive every day or is your car insured? What happens? I've never been able to drive apart from when I turn up wherever that rally is in whatever country get one day of practice and then I've got to go for it so I've never been able to practice Do other people get to practice? Why? Because they've got the funding Even though earlier my racing was funding I didn't have any funding or I didn't have any income myself but there's guys I'm competing against now that are driving every week they've just got millions behind them and that's what I've always been up against so you're basically just not winging it but you're doing it through pure talent 100% but again if you're sitting here just now if you keep doing what you're doing in two or three years time it will be a different story the success story will be there for a young kid to be winning European championship against some of the biggest drivers out there at 26 shows me that there's talent there but obviously if you're seeing your dad was controversial you don't know if people are making a black ball in you then to go and don't give him anything so there might be a lot of politics behind the scenes because if somebody's winning European championships at your age because rally drivers drive in their 40s and 50s still do or not and that's when some of them hit their peak in their 30s if you're doing this at this age then maybe somebody's threatened I don't know I'm just going I might just be my conspiracy mind running over drive but when you're doing so if you go there how many laps do you get to do for a practice if you go a day before so the events so when I won the European championship there was eight rounds across Europe I only did a days practice on one closed road and then we do the recce for the rally where we drive the route in a road car twice so that's the same for everyone so is that just driving normal and a normal car yeah and that's where I make the pace and it's with my co-driver is that like when you see them I don't know if it was cool run-ins I watched the bobsleigh one sitting on the bar and I was watching the tons exactly do you do that like get pictures of the tons you're doing or no we watch a lot of videos and there's a lot of different prep but we can only see the road twice in real life before we have to drive flat out on it how long was it to take it to prep for one event how long is one event so one the top rallies world rallies European rallies usually three or four days split into stages obviously how many stages it depends because some stages can be like 35 kilometres others can be in the city you know, a broadly closed city centres and have a stage 5 kilometres around the city so all the events are different and it's all the services are different any condition and that's why for me it's the best motor sport in the world because it's such an adventure and it's never the same you look like a Formula One driver I don't even know what a Formula One driver is but you kind of get that Jensen Button kind of David Coulthard kind of look you know what I mean how could you go from the rally drivers ever go from rally to Formula One I would get a lot of hate for this but I just find it so boring I mean the speeds and the risks and they're obviously pushing the limits, the milliseconds but for me going round and round the same circuits we can be just boring Hose, what's the fastest speed you can get up to in a rally car? so because it's more about acceleration and we're going down tight forest or mountain roads it's not about top speed top speed can be 130 right but we don't I mean we do get bad but it's more about the 0-60 when you're sat in one of these cars your brain's your brain's left at the start line it's that much of a shock who's the best at European Tour just now? so I won the championship last year sorry two years ago I wasn't able to compete all of last year because of Covid and the Russian driver I beat won last year because I wasn't able to defend the title so that's frustrating who's the best in the world? Sebastien Ogier he's a French driver he's a seven-time world champion how old? he's about 36 so he's quite young as well and do you think you're better than him? I've got to say yes I think I'm better than most of them but he's like but he's got 10 years ahead of you I couldn't say I'm better than him I believe I'm better than everybody I don't know if that's just pure straight ego that self-belief and the work ethic I think that could be as good as him yeah better than him why not? why not man? if your dreams don't scare you they're not big enough so you should be thinking outside the box and going you know what? fuck him I'm just going, I'm going to win eight yeah yeah so he's like my hero so I've got I want him to mentor me as well yeah but you don't know what's round the corner yeah so how did European how did you get into the European kind of stages how does that happen from like British you've got to go through British, European seal up a box of one's British title yeah like Commonwealth or European and then it go into the world does that you've got to go through those stages a lot of the rich kids have just gone straight to the world so how do you get into the world then to just make that leap just money so anybody can buy a car yeah and just enter it yeah how much does it to enter to do if you're a rich kid to go and do the world championship you could pay three or four million quid and do it tomorrow so anybody can do it yeah so you don't have like certain times of anything no and that's wrong that's why it's it's becoming less of a sport it's about three for all it's more of a a game for rich people yeah but there's always the cream at the top so when you've done your European championships I know if you could get flat tires 400 quid if the water broke down that was your completely out yeah because other drivers have like two in three cars spare yeah I mean you can't change the car during the rally but there's one Russian guy who destroys cars every week and his dad will just buy him a new one for 300 grand a go and when you're competing against that if I crash the car then I'm finished last year the year when I won the European championship I had no money I was actually getting into debt to try and fund it because I knew I would at the start of the season I said I'm gonna I'm gonna become the first Britain 52 years to win the European championship and I would never give up on it I was getting into debt throughout the season putting more and more stress on me getting into a bad place with it really and knowing when you know you're sat on the start line you've got to beat these guys you've got to risk everything but if I crash it's over it's the most difficult thing to balance and judge what's the rules for rally driving like flat tyres, certain times because what do they do they depart the car go from the different starting points where they're finished how's it work with different times I know that people are like maybe 20 seconds ahead but so what happens when they say that's day one finished where do people start from if you're 20 seconds ahead so the stages, the routes are all the same and we start from the same place at minute intervals and you can change your tyre I can change tyre in a minute so it's a pretty I was actually I got a puncture on the last event of the last rally when I won the championship and I had to change the tyre before the next guy was coming round the corner a blind corner, do you know what I mean so there's a lot of risk involved so you could get hit? yeah and you can overtake people do not get radioed through drawing pre-yellow flag comes out slow down no it's all down to us which is why so if you've got a sign like a disclaimer if you die then it's your fault nah I think they think it's your fault anyway but it's a mental sport how can you get disqualified cheating how do people cheat I don't know I don't, you can't really did the engines get checked? yeah do you know what I mean to see if there's certain stuff in certain parts in certain countries you know that everyone's cheating or instead of doing two recce passes which you're allowed they'll be doing 50 what does that mean? they're driving the route 50 times before we do it in a row car to learn every single corner obviously the more you do it the more it becomes easier but you're only allowed to do it twice so there's no like a day before they'll have the that's when we do it but we're only allowed to do it twice so when you lost your sponsor then won the European Championships what were you thinking? I can't give up on it and that was a two year deal you had and that was that funded you for two years to travel the world with? I could have let it ruin my career because I'd turned down other sponsorship I had everything in place to do it so I had to take that debt on to do the championship and when you're a young lad getting into that much debt there's no one helping you you're putting all of this into your dream and it could just end it's a difficult place when did they pull the plug on you the sponsor? about a week before the first ride see something's not right about that for me I think it was maybe planned that Baldi swaps up then why would somebody pull the plug a week before? I think it's all down to money isn't it? you've got all these wee rich kids man they'll not like you coming out there and wanting that for me that's my paranoia and insecurities but that's the way I'd be thinking there's something ain't right when there's money involved there's always something don't you? so how did you push on your mum raised funding or your mum set up a just given? a crowdfunding page crowdfunding? and so many people chipped in to help me get to the final two rounds so I'd done the first half of the year getting into debt really leading the championship but I was driving terribly because I was so depressed from the pressure and the stress my head was absolutely gone I was still leading but I was driving terribly to what I can do so I had going into those last two rallies the crowdfunding and it was like a fairy tale at the end because just the way I won the championship I lost I lost the rally on the last stage I got a puncher so I'd lost the title and I thought it's the end of what the hell am I going to do I can't it was horrific I didn't know what I was going to do it was the worst I was in a bad place so the other guy got a puncher I got a puncher and we were stood at the end not knowing who's won the championship because he'd finished second in the rally I'd finished fourth I needed to finish third and the FIA the head of motorsport the same organisation that runs Formula 1 so it was mental and after half an hour we got the word from the FIA that we'd won it and it was just biggest relief ever so you won that and stole no sponsor no why though well Covid but you would have got a sponsor for that shit that would have happened last year even before this I won the junior championship and I won a hundred grand but I didn't get it I didn't get the prize money so there's just been every step of the way there's been these hurdles but that's where the growth was do you know what I mean imagine and then I got the sponsorship and then Covid and then my sponsors have struggled and had to pull out so that's where the sponsors pull out meanwhile all my rivals were competing all year so do you think so how's the main what you're thinking of so I've been getting well I'm on the up big time because I've always had this goal of becoming world champion no matter what anyone thinks and that's my goal but it's so easy to slip off that path and when I was going through a bad time in the European Championship even though I was leading I was in the worst place in my life with depression so you just can't I can't think of how now I think what the hell but I thought I was in that bad a place so you're leading the European Championships yeah you're losing money going out and meeting all these fit birds and driving 100 expensive rally cars but really I was struggling so much because I thought it was the end what was your mum and dad seeing they didn't really know I didn't really tell anyone so how did you get through that then difficulty my biggest regret is that I didn't go and get professional help straight away that's the only way not asking for help and not speaking about it when did you start opening up about it when Covid started because that hit me again and that I really struggled in the first lockdown I just lost my mind when I think back to who I was only a year ago firstly I think how the hell could I have won the championship in that place I must be a bloody good driver and I must have some hunger deep down to pull myself through I just can't believe that I was in that place because now I'm back on the track being so focused to get to where I know I deserve to be you've got to go to these dark places though to then appreciate life because you're sitting at the top of the tree you're thinking European champion all this money is going to come in all this sponsors and you got fuck all so you've set your target in your mind that this is going to change your life you've done that and never changed your life I think it made your life worse and it put yourself in that dark position with you because you never shown gratitude to actually what you are achieving to the family that you had around you you had so much going for you so you've concentrated on worlds I'm going to travel the world, I'm going to have more fat birds I'm going to have money, you're concentrating on the right thing except for the love of driving except for the passion your mum's raising money for you you've still got a dad, you've still got your health because we can concentrate on the things we don't have instead of the things we really do have so when you I mean there was a lot of other stuff going on my dad was ill I was in a really bad relationship toxic really bad and I had just no money so I mean looking back it's not that bad yeah but it is as well but when you're in there and you're blinded by it all it can be horrific you think the only option is to take yourself out of the game 100% I can't believe how bad you can think it is when you're in that place but when you get out of it you realise what you've got but sometimes you need to hit the depths of hell to realise sometimes you actually need to go through the depths of hell to then see the light it's difficult and I always say this shit on the podcast we all battle that people looking through outside think my life is great, I think I'm doing great but nothing really changes I just love what I'm doing, I've just found a passion same as yourself, you love driving obviously more difficult for you because you need to raise funds to then travel the world, you've got your sex when you're a world champion but then you all look back in a few months from now you actually laugh and go f***ing stay hours in then do you know what I mean? because you might not have been sitting here just because you hurt a wobbler with your misses and your dad was not well with you he passed all of life you could have won the world championship, that shit could still happen and you could have still tried to top yourself I always use Tyson Fury's prime example won all the belts, won all the money and the big man ended up f***ing depressed the biggest depression of his life because all that stuff that we concentrate on we think that's what's going to fulfill is we realise once we get it that's not what it's about it's about enjoying a journey enjoy the stresses of trying to get sponsors enjoy the stresses you clearly work better when you're under pressure maybe if you had all the sponsors you wouldn't drive as well so if you crashed in a European championship you were f***ed yeah I just couldn't see a life without me being a rally driver because I'd neglected my personal life so much I didn't know who I was outside of rallying did that affect your relationship? yeah massively or was it already f***ed? it's hard to say but it's over concentrating you do you know what I mean? f*** them some can be nothing but a hassle when you've got a dream because what happens is you start working on your dream and it works both ways so you kind of start working on yourself and you've had to go through all that shit to realise I'm still young f***ing young get this year get things cemented and then go on for the world so how do you get to the world then? so if you're one of the European championships do you not get a free pass or anything? nothing like that do you get money for one in the European? no what the f*** is the point of competing then? because when I get to the top you know the guys at the top earning millions I'm not in it for the money yeah but rather than at some degree this is a business now I've created so part of me when the money starts coming in you start going oh wait a minute I can make more it's like you always want to progress there's nothing wrong with that and you want to have a career doing what you absolutely love and getting paid shitloads for it it's okay to make money it's just how you do it when you make it what you're doing with it hundreds of hookers and hundreds of cocaine that is up it just depends you go with it money's an energy currency how you're spending it and what you're doing with it will show the true character I believe of a human being so pass that I think if you chase it as much you'll not receive it if you're open to just doing what you love all that shit comes with the territory so for you to try to get into the world how would you need to do that? I've actually created a company as myself and I'm selling shares in my future earnings so I plan to raise the investments getting into the world championship because I won't get a chance at the moment even though I won the European championship because I've never done the world championship so the sport's just not tiered for talent it's all about money but I want to prove them wrong I want to get this chance get the investment to do two years in WRC too how much does that cost? 300 grand a year and that's over half a month or two years what's it a ton if you won? there's no prize money where do the top earners get? Sebastian OJ World Champion it'll be on 10 million a year probably even the guys finishing 5th or 6th will be on so a top 10s millionaires sponsors and now we age plus the expenses are covered exactly do you believe you're a top 10 driver? I believe that I'm able to find when I get the chance so how do you get the funding? I've won all these titles and I've shown 10% of my true ability so far because I can't afford to crash when I get this chance with a top team and a top car and I can go balls out I just need that chance to show what I can do I don't want to say I'm better than any of these guys I don't want to show how good I am then you're older when does a world champion start again? it actually starts next week in Monte Carlo I've missed it how many drivers are in each championships? there's 14 rallies and in WRC2 you have to do 7 so you choose 7 of the 14 I'm going to start in Croatia in April so I'm trying to raise the funding to go for it in April so what happens then so you don't do the 14 just the 7? so what if the number 1 driver picks do you get to see what other drivers pick? no so it's quite tactical I'd imagine though somebody would have a look poll or some sort of inside information to say the number 1 driver is driving here so we'll drive the other 7 that he's not driving yeah would that make a difference? for me I don't think I think I'll win it I want to win WRC2 and then if I do that I'll get into WRC1 the top tier because nobody will have done it I won't be able to be ignored by these top teams so nobody's won but that is European world? no one just that he's won the world once twice Colin McQueen never did he went straight to world championship really young back then the sport was in such a good place there was Subaru, there was all this big sponsors it was massive and it needs to get back there and one of my dreams is to get it back in the public eye isn't anybody's drivers? yeah there's a Welsh driver called Elfin Evans he almost won it last year but he crashed on the last day how old? he's 33 so you're the youngest then involved? yeah but if you love something there's no structure at all and it's frustrating but it's the best sport on the planet how many drivers in each championship? 20 20 odd so but what if you say it's money and say it's 30 or 40 they just pick obviously people that's any amount of people can do it you could have 100 can you? so if I had money and funding I could join the world championships this year yeah no way you need to get an international licence you'll need to do a few British rallies to get an international licence but you could do it I think we've just gave people ideas you'll see every time that you'll see all the old gangsters driving these championships next year it's mad see I don't know much about it obviously I know Colin McCray because we used to play at the PlayStation in the 90s Colin McCray I don't know if he had his own games but rally games it was the end thing rally driving used to go to the bowling and that's how I remember I remember Colin McCray that was a standout name of course it was Scottish I don't know if it was a Swedish guy back then it's an interesting sport sadly because Colin McCray and Richard Burns passed away 15 years ago the interests sort of died and then Formula 1 shot up with Hamilton and there's no one there now that's getting the attention of the British public that's what I need to do that's what I will do given the chance so that's your chance then so you're getting back involved in April so what do you do now do you ever go through red lights or something do you ever bomb it when I was like 14 I used to knit my mum's car and just go joyriding but I'm pretty careful now I've polished myself up so do you know how I get the urge though to be sitting at your traffic lights and driving the engine and sitting next to a car so if I was to give you all that full focus see I was in a Ferrari who would win obviously me would you? why? I need to take you for a spin down the lanes probably everyone says I'm a better driver than you how close is it how close is it if you saw us down the country they'd end up killing themselves because that's my thing I just can feel everything so how close is it to the cubs poles and booties and she's apart I'll just go straight over them I know what the car can say so see if I come around this corner this side of the corner that I go just through it flat out sideways through it do you learn how to do that at a young age? yeah I'd say a lot of it is just natural which is crazy from your dad though yeah sliding quad bikes around stuff like that but a lot of it is just instinct I'm sure you have these boxes some people everybody's got talent it's a dedication in the craft people always say about Ronnie O'Sullivan the snooker player I actually read something a couple of days ago he was practicing for 14-15 hours when he was 9-10 years old so as much as it's talent they've created that talent they've created that genius and them to be the best so you think you could be the best if you get the funding and be allowed to train every day you can train or just go ahead the back roads so that's what I used to do we used to just find farmers with private roads and private forests for practice that's the only way but what I was going to say then you'll have to crap this bit mine's just gone blank that's ok when you're driving around farms and shouting things on private roads yeah sorry pal sorry I had something really good mine's just gone dead I think it's going alright good this is what I'm saying when people do these interviews they don't know I've gone live from back to start that's good because people will take an interest I don't know fuck all about it so I'm asking questions off the cuff because you already know the answers I'm just interested in how it fucking works yeah and so are other people I'd say like there's one thing being a fast driver and Colin McRae was the fastest you can get he was absolutely flat out mental but I'd say my biggest strength is I'm actually a genius because I know exactly how much I need to push because of all my crashes in my early career I found the limit and I can I know the limit so well that I can play with it and I know the risks is that like like like I mean like calculated I won the championship from being calculated 100% and just know it I knew when my rivals were going to break the cars and if they were going to get a punch or they were going to make a mistake I just knew and I knew exactly what I had to do so see when you're driving you have, what's your co-pilot called? Ross so he's sat there with information and you've got an earpiece or anything then yeah yeah so we've got a headset in the helmet and he's giving me all of this could you do that if your eyes closed obviously it's you know what I mean but see you close your eyes and drive at a smaller pace could you do that? 100% yeah the notes it's like drawing a map of the road in my mind so it's photographic memory kind of thing but the only thing I'm reacting to is surface changes, rocks you know all the finite details I've seen a few spectators nearly getting hit yeah I've seen some of the blooper videos the car was skidding around the corner the big guys stood behind the pole the car fucked the pole there's some mental video tyres and shit coming off so once you get your funding, your backing then actually pressure off and you can get focused is it worldwide or is it just European? worldwide where's the world, is that American shit as well? so there's around in Chile, Japan Kenya as well as all of Europe it's massive in like Argentina and port where's the biggest in the world, the most support? Portugal I think a million people went to watch rally Portugal and then we did there's Eastern European rallies where I'll be competing against the guy for the win and he's like one of the most famous people in the country it's mad but I can work for Manchester and nobody knows who I am is it podium finishes like 4th, 2nd, 3rd yeah yeah you've got trophies then fuck the money on it, just get your trophies that's all I've got I've just got my trophies everywhere and so you travelled the world with that where's the best place you've been? the most unique place is the Azores where's that? which is in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean a volcanic island and the roads are on the edge of the volcano and it's just the most insane insane rally with a thousand foot drop into a lake, what was the volcano? just flat out and you don't think about it how does the cars get there? on a ship for 4 days and you've got to do that travelling as well? no no so it's not just a case I fell in the fuel up in the car you've got it shipping as well and all that shit who plans all that for you? so the teams it's like arriving drive now thank god because there's so much that goes into it, the prep and everything all I've got to focus on is getting the sponsorship initially and the prep big time so I just can't wait to get back on it and I feel like how many is on a team? so we've got 4 or 5 mechanics an engineer, the team manager my co-driver obviously so that's all funding for them as well? so I cut you off there what you're going to see but the world rally teams, there's hundreds of them and they build ability garage and building massive money so it's so much many sponsors can you have in one car? as many as you want so that's not too bad I had 400 nimes on my car from all the people that had shipped in local pizza shops but you must have done them proud then that they never wasted their money thank god don't ever forget these people when you do at the big time I'll just say fuck yous fuck them it's just your plan as to win the world championship win wrc the second level which is rally 2 I need to win that first then hopefully I'll get the chance in wrc to become world champion so wrc was it 2? wrc2 wrc1 and number 1 obviously is the cream of the crop number 2 is that what kind of drivers is that? I'm coming and people who have slipped down because there's only there's only limited 10 drives in wrc1 so it's top 10 so there's people who deserve to be in wrc1 but because there's people in wrc1 that have paid to be there they've taken up those seats so it's basically all money but there must be talent there as well do you know what I mean? it's not just a case that I'm going to pay this money to be some sort of talent exactly yeah have drivers ever went from world champion level to then formula 1? Sebastian Loeb was the most most successful rally driver ever he won 9 world titles and there was talk that he would go into formula 1 but instead he got into other racing how big is the leap what's the difference between rally driving and formula 1 driving? you can't compare it I mean it's completely like could a formula 1 driver come in and compete in the world championships straight away though? a lot of them would be thinking how big could that be Kimi Raikkonen did it and crashed every rally you can't it's two different sports it's not even like my my vs boxing it's even more football rugby it's crazy man it's funny because every man thinks they can drive because they can maybe hit a 90 or 110 and they think they're big time but you lose control when you're driving through the snow and it leads today so if I get into a skid did I turn out the skid? that's what I've always been told and that shit it all depends on front wheel drive rear wheel drive or wheel drive so a real real drive the only way to settle this interview is you need to come for a spin with us this year I will and you'll absolutely I will shape myself and Dapa laughs he'll tell you because he absolutely cacks himself I love Dapa I love Dapa you can see that you need to I would shape myself but you can't put it I can't eat I'm sat here as a normal guy I can't tell you how good it is there's nothing it's just the best you're adrenaline you're adrenaline so see when you weren't driving and that's when you hurt your biggest depression because maybe you're not getting that dopamine adrenaline kick to the brain the chemical imbalance is what's going on all over the place because usually you're buzzing I'd imagine my focus when I'm driving is like I'm a machine I'm driving so fast and everything slows down like the matrix and it's just I get into this so I'm a dope but I get into this so when I'm driving and I can't explain it do you feel as if you are the car? yeah I doubt it you're a part of it do you name your car? but yeah even the buzz of the buzz of driving and winning and just doing well the travelling and the adventure was a massive part of my life which I enjoyed and the meeting people and your team and your family and when all of that was gone that was like what the hell is that when you started questioning everything? yeah when did you get help? I can't blame myself because that is everything to me but even though it's everything there's still other things there that also your mum and stuff like that as well because you're a winner we love to win even if I take my kids bowling I don't let them win I need to win I need to win I don't know what it is I get angry when I don't I was with one of my girlfriends and we were playing Scrabble or something I was like I can't lose it you've got to have that killer mentality that's what separates the winners from the losers you've got to win I always believe no matter what I say I'm the biggest and the greatest no matter what it is I believe that I'm going to bring fire every time you've got to because if you don't people say oh he's arrogant or he's got ego fuck them I ain't going to bring myself down levels just to make you feel at ease make you feel better I believe I'm the best at what I do I believe I'm the best at other things that I do whatever I set my mind to it's whether how long I stay at that 40 master that craft so for you you want to master your craft what's the oldest rally driver that's kicking about still Sebastian Loeb who's almost 50 yeah that's nuts Claire loves that but when you compare it to Formula 1 I'm so young because rally drivers it's all about experience it's all about knowing these different rallies and the conditions and that built up over time whereas Formula 1 they can just get on a circuit and learn it and even these young kids can do it now we were like 19 so it's a different thing so with the tyres and stuff can you use as many tyres as you want if you get flat tyres there's only maximum 20 odd there's a limit to like 20 if you're driving in snow and stuff yeah studded tyres put into the rubber which is mad what's your favourite course I don't even have one no, what's your favourite condition to drive in any ice snow can you drive on ice there's the rally ever get it's too windy or it's too icy you need to drive it's mad have you got friends in it I thought I had a few becoming champions people get fucking the rage the more success comes it's fucking heavy what I've learnt to do is use it as fire so no matter what the hate comes my way you've just fucked up it fuels me the success doesn't fuel me money doesn't fuel me it's the fucking haters that fuel me I genuinely hate fuels me this year I'm just going to go levels again just to annoy people I think my biggest problem is I've been too nice and too humble fuck that got to be ruthless to be number one you have got to be ruthless you have got to concentrate on you this is what I'm learning as well but always knew that you're going to get haters but the bigger you become fuck me listen if you won a world title you see a whole different more haters it's crazy don't get me wrong there's people Manchester they support you got to fund you for the European so people love you same as myself I've got more love than anything but it's the hate that I will fuel myself to kick on and just keep proving those people wrong it's weird, it's childish as it is it's weird but tell me plans for the future and that then so I'm like have you got structure for that or are you winging it I've come so far since I was in that bad place even though I've not been driving all that stuff and I just want to keep going I'm only 20% of the way there I've just got so much potential I need to fulfill and just focus on myself I'm sure I'm going to get this chance to fly did you ask for help when you were self-harm I did and I've I've had so many people to thank yeah did you talk to certain people yeah and I got a really good therapist and I knew who my real mates were because there's a phrase that says you're never alone but some people shout to the wrong people you are alone yeah make you feel lonely so you need to choose and it's scary because nobody is qualified therapist so it's hard if somebody reaches out you think you'll be fine before you know it listen it's too late before you know that cuts get deeper before you know that ropes hanging from the ceiling it's difficult because we ain't all therapists that's why I thought it's the first time I spoke about it in publicly I think it's important because there's so many young lads there in the same position without a doubt not even in sport but just in life people looking at you, European championship good looking lads what old did his feet exactly that's what I wanted to get it out really that again fair play to you because it takes balls that's when you know you're in a better place when you're willing to talk about it so that's a good thing so now you will learn from this you will grow from it, you will become stronger once you watch this as well go do you know what I'm ready because it's never I can put in your shit in a line because everybody judges that people would have got my pass from 5 years ago 10 years ago, 15 years ago as if it's something new as if I'm hiding from it leave what I have in that place imagine what I could do when I'm in a good place the exercise and I wouldn't say I'm in a good place now I'm neutral yeah everyday run, yeah that balances the main exercise is key to anything were you offered prescription drugs or anything yeah but I'm not on anything now I'm 100% and I'm ready to fill my dreams and my potential but this is all part of your story then exactly 100% and even today I was thinking is it too early for me to do this interview because I'm not yet where I want to be at a minimum but I'm going to be there soon you'll be there soon then you can back on with a world title yeah after making you shit yourself I'll do it, I won't shit myself I'm a fucking shit banker shit like that even when I go on the theme parks roller coasters I'm terrified but I do it and I'll try and say it's fine it's fine I just think I'm going to die so I do, you need to trust me I don't trust anyone I always fucking say that I need to start changing that I need to stop saying that I'm putting out the universe do you know what this year I'm going to learn how to trust people but every time I it's important but you forget that all these people that are supporting you sometimes of course, there's so many good people out there loads loads and always trying to speak to everyone I genuinely do but obviously as everything's grown it becomes more difficult to give everybody a time because I've got a business to run I've got kids, I've got travelling I try to juggle everything I'd love to speak to everyone but sometimes as well you don't want to give the wrong information to somebody but this is why we always touch on the mental health it's a difficult time for everyone because nobody knows what the fuck's going on but exercise is key stop fucking lining your couch feeling sorry for yourself, get your ass up go a walk around the block, walk up your stairs even getting in for a shower and cleaning yourself instead of lining about for 2 days, 3 days, eating shit because it's easy to slip slip fast, people think 20, 30 years are wrong doing it's going to change over one weekend, one week it's just constantly consistency that people overweight just instead of eating a fucking pizza and curry just cut that out and gradually do it and I was always one for trying to cut everything out fast, together but it's just trying to do one thing at a time and then constantly adding to it and you do break the links and those kind of chains of the past and the trauma whatever it's had but for what you've done and came through you could have been fucking dead and the stupid thing is I was going and doing these massive things but not thinking about the basics like you said not looking after myself well and that's so important you've got to have those foundations I felt completely on my own and my family was struggling as well, I didn't want to burden them with my problems and I should have got I should have got professional help Caesar says and done that because we've become ashamed we've become embarrassed we've become too proud to say listen, I'm struggling I'm really struggling and that's for anybody watching that's struggling and it says that they ain't alone everybody's battling but it's easy for us to talk about it because we're out of darkness it's easy now because I'm always talking about my addictions and this and that sometimes I feel as if I'm fucking talking about it too much but I might get somebody just watching this new podcast for the first time that's coming on and going wait a minute that can help that you ain't alone people ain't alone it's like we're too proud for many years nobody knew I had many addictions nobody knew I had it well I was always laughing and joking I always made people laugh when really I was just screaming out for help and then when you start distancing yourself from the certain things that they're destroying your life you realise and then we actually start changing all your energy and start getting ready all the negative shit but does it even matter that you could win the world title you could still have those thoughts sitting alone they will creep back you will some sort of even a song some smell can trigger that emotion and you'll think fuck me that was that place I was in so it will always be in your mind that you were willing to die because you thought your life was falling apart when really it was just all falling together because what that will do is make you stronger make you fucking stronger and then when you crash or you think you've lost pole position you'll be thinking you know what I'm fucking living stop feeling sorry for yourself I'm here I'm doing it, I'm young these guys aren't 30s they're 10 year ahead of me so I ain't gonna feel bad tomorrow I'm just gonna fucking zoom right by them that gun from anything goes as fucking he's giving me the tools and techniques to take over you will be world champion million percent and then it's all down to you he's gonna retire soon and then I need to prove myself and try and get him to mentor me how do you do that so for anybody watching that's maybe got money but if somebody wanted to invest in you or sponsor you, what would they do you can get in touch with me on any social media on my website however and be a part of it because I'm gonna get to the top I need support initially to do the world championship but I'm gonna I'm I'm too un... I don't like to say I'm gonna I'm 100% believe that I'm the best young driver out there and that I deserve to be there and I'm gonna show my full my full talent and show everyone what I can do so people can contact you and what do they have do they have a name at the side of the car do they get we can do anything we can have rides in the car we can do events branding opportunities it's on BT Sport, ITV to hundreds of millions of people the world championship so they're getting to promote their business and hopefully as soon as I can get there my profile is gonna grow as well my social media is gonna grow and yeah it's just all businesses more events you won the more your name gets out there even but on this podcast will enhance your name definitely it will enhance your story and people will be intrigued because now I'll be keeping an eye out on rally scores and rally championships I'll be coming to one of their events there's hot girls there do you know what I mean I'll be fucking driving rally cars I'll be taking your position and I'll put my mind to I smoke once I complete this podcast game I need someone to come and take all the girls off me honestly I don't know I'm past that now but if they're under 30s making me sure I'm looking to settle down this is a year I'm going to settle down so this is a year I'm settling down I need to settle down I need to stop being a pimp I don't know man I just feel as if I want to enjoy the finer things in life now like business is good I'm doing good but I've nobody to share it with and I'm in a place now I feel as if I can I feel as if I can go nice holidays I feel as if I can do nice things and I was never in that position I was always tapping money to maybe go for a nice meal and pretending now I don't need to pretend so maybe but again I think I said that last year as well I might just be one of those guys that never fucking settle down just keep living the high life you know what I mean he's still too young I reckon great hells coming on fucking fast I'm not dying it this year had a bad habit of dying it a couple of times I just tell people it was the lighting definitely the lighting fucking ideas believe that I always get stuck for it I'm growing old graceful at this time because I'm always talking about everything's within so why am I dying my hair I see ego I think it looks mint I see ego so world champ title ring you're in a good place what you're doing differently daily routine wise working out every day once minimum one strength session one cardio minimum and just just the basics eating well and getting up early keeping in touch with the good people around me which is hard in lockdown yeah how are you I've got a mega coach now Rick Moylin he's a boxing coach and he's toughening me up a bit you doing boxing I'm starting yeah anything to move stimulates your mind the natural chemicals serotonin dorphins dopamine just to feel good after I work out you will drop again after another two hours but just for that certain so I just rifted just for that certain period of getting out there and moving I don't like the gym I don't like running but I need to do it else I would bloom up every podcast my way it's different honestly I've done 150 podcasts and my weight goes up and down each fucking podcast just depends what I eat if I eat a bit of bread my face just fattened up honestly throwing a couple of snickers but you're doing amazing you're doing amazing especially if you're sitting here young age try to top yourself brother to then all go world title so that takes massive courage that's a total U-turn I don't know a 180 I would say I don't know why people say 360 why do people say 360 if you're coming out of that place people say you've taken a 360 is that not good you're back round to your that place again so I want to say you've done a 180 and you've went the other way but that will make you stronger so when you do hit the obstacles because to be world title to win the world championships you want to go through some amount of shit some amount of problems more pressure that's where you can't break it's the greats from the good because the pressure they can handle you look at your Pete Sambreses, your Ronny O'Sullivan your top football players rugby players, basketball players it's those split seconds those inches those little moments that separate them in one titles than the ones who crumble because everybody crumbles under pressure and there's there's so many guys in sport that haven't had that and they've been handed these chances but they never can have that hunger because they've never been through it and I think but my hunger's always been there this has only given me more fire when you're 27 July so you'll have a couple of races before then so when does it finish when's the last race so the last one is Spain in November so if you pick seven and somebody else picks seven what happens if somebody picks the first seven if they've got to then wait to the last race to see if they've won I would definitely try and race the last race so they calculate all the points at the same time if I did the first seven and won the first seven I've won it so it depends it's complicated but with the majority of the drivers always last drive the last race so they know what to drive for not necessarily it's quite tactical because there's a lot of Scandinavian drivers so you know for a fact they'll do all those events in Scandinavia I might have to go and do one or two of them and beat them so I know that they're on a loss there do you know the tracks? No, not at all, never been to any of them so but the people get their heads up let's use the ones in Scandinavia I'll be racing on exactly I'll be racing against them on their home roads which they've been driving on for years so it's like coming racing me around Manchester you know all the streets so it's a massive challenge ahead you going for it though? fair play to you brother I think I was like I just can't believe how far I came as that person and now I feel like I hit the rock bottom I'm reinventing myself I'm only at the start but I can create whoever I want to be now yeah, you're believing yourself now I always have I always have but just these these things not even doubts but just the loneliness and these bad feelings crept in how long were you having those feelings? I would say it was creeping in ever since school ever since I was a kid so you always had them there? yeah, I think because of like not having a good time in school my mum and dad struggling a lot I never wanted to tell anyone my problems put my problems give my mum and dad more problems and I think that shaped it just a build up so people might think it just happens overnight but it's just a build up from your teenage years to then your dad not wearing all the missies not getting funding just all piles on you and then you think fuck me, do you know what, it's too much but then you've clearly, if you want and not having the right support system in place of good mates you can talk to about anything that's so important isn't it got me so I only want to hear from you titles mate I want to hear from you on your phone like I've just fucking won it and I've been like oh my god but you've got what you need to doubt it you've learnt from it because clearly so you're here for a reason whether that's to one world titles I don't know it's down to you, how far you want to go I believe you all won a world title I'm always right people I've had many world champions on here fighters whatever the funding's the only thing stopping me if I get the funding I could do anything and you all get it so before we finish up what's the main objective then this year for you so I want to win my first world title in the second level but most importantly I want to just enjoy life just be happy about it but you look happy look as if you've got a smile on your face where you're just enjoying life so no matter if you get funding or not just understand that life does go on you can always go again I've got so long even if I don't become world champion and then don't get this chance I could do something else so I think it was good it was thanks so much for inviting us on I really thought it was important to tell the young lads for anybody that's watching and struggling just now what advice would you have for them for people looking at you and like I said on your podcast you would probably think you've got a great life and it just goes to show that appearance doesn't mean fuck all it's the ones with the big smiles on their face it's the ones that are hiding the most I believe I'm speaking from experience here as well but for anybody that's struggling what advice would you give for them get professional help on your podcast especially there's been so many blokes who can do anything but you can't do it all on your own you need people go people around you and if you're in a bad place you need to reach out and get professional help because it can change your life in a matter of a few sessions just admitting that you're not feeling great just admitting you're having mental health issues that's the change your life changes in an instant you can work on yourself to keep bettering yourself but an instant that moment to say right I'm going to get help and you need to be a bit humble to do that we've all got too much pride we'll walk about with a swagger and just pretend but it's a weird time for everybody and people are struggling but people do change people make better choices in life it just takes time just understand that you can make choices you can make better choices and you can do nothing just admitting even admitting to yourself that you're struggling is a turning point in your life you don't need to admit it to everybody else or someday you can admit it to yourself and work on yourself I think everybody knows the answers to things that you need to change in life whether it's over eating over drinking or taking drugs or whatever shit as you're doing you know deep inside that this isn't making me feel great just ask yourself the question what's enhancing you and what's not I think if you actually become honest with yourself and actually sit with yourself for a couple of hours and gather your own thoughts then you can kind of figure out yourself where you're going wrong in life but some people do get so lost that they crash into the wall and they don't know what the fuck's went wrong but when you actually look at all the shit they've done maybe over a 10, 20, 30 year period just all comes to a head comes into such a mess and unravel it but Chrissy boy we're coming on a date brother listen I genuinely mean it you will be world champion thanks for coming on sharing you're doing amazing it's good to see you smiling, happy plans for the future and let's go part 2 when you get that world title cheers James, thanks for that