 Okay, here we go. Hi, this is C4 Communications Manager, Christy, and I'm here with John Fah. Well, not here. I'm in Indonesia and John is in the UK. And today we are talking about a new book that John has just co-authored, entitled, Towards a Sustainable Participatory and Inclusive Wild Meat Sector. This book is available for download on the C4 website at c4.org. John, thank you for joining me. First of all, can you tell us about the book? Yes, this is a book that actually contains all the information that we have been able to gather on how to make the wild meat sector sustainable. What I mean by that is that we know that people throughout the world, especially in the tropics and subtropics, are using wild animals as a source of food, a very important source of food. And there must be a unified way of understanding how we can help these communities and governments to come up with sustainable practices. What the book does is actually bring all of the experts and quite a large number of experts who know about the subject matter. And we have compiled all of the literature, literally all of the literature would say that deals with the topic. And bit by bit, we have given ideas and recommendations of what to do. Great. Why publish this book now? Because we have been asked to do that primarily by the Convention of Biological Diversity, the CBD, asked us to produce not just a policy document, which we produced at the end of last year on how to ensure sustainable wildlife management through the use of wild meat. But they've also asked us to give the countries that participate in the CBD means of understanding the problem and coming up with possible ways forward. So it is the right time now because the largest body involved in conservation of wildlife worldwide has asked us to produce this book. Great. To get to the meat of the situation, what are the biggest drivers for wild meat exploitation? I think the conclusion that we have come up with, not just now but throughout a lot of work that has been done by our colleagues and ourselves, is that the biggest driver is the demand for wild meat by urban centres. An example, if you have 10 million people in the city of Kinshasa, the capital of the DRC, wanting meat, you can imagine the great demand, the great amount of animals, the great number of animals that need to be killed in order to satisfy that demand. Even if in fact only about 2% of the 10 million people that are living in Kinshasa ask for meat from the wild, it is going to have a major impact. And this is the same in all of the cities in Africa, certainly the same in Asia, and becoming like that in places like the Amazon in Latin America. Does the book provide any thoughts on how wild meat can be managed sustainably? Yes, we do. We have spent quite a bit of time in actually bringing together all of the information and experiences that people have had in coming up with new ways or solutions to the wild meat problem. So therefore the book contains a section that says these are our examples, these are our experiences, and we suggest that you follow them or read them. And so as you have ideas of what to do in your particular country or region. So we do make a point of not just bringing together the information that tells us about the problems, but we also bring together data that tells us about solutions. The document has to be a positive document. It is not just saying that things are bad is actually coming up with recommendations how to improve it. Great. Thank you so much for that book teaser. Once again, the title of the book is Towards a Sustainable Participatory and Inclusive Wild Meat Sector. It's available on the C4 website. Thank you so much for your time, John. Thank you very much.