 Okay, we're going to get started here. I'm Josh Jerome, Community and Economic Development Specialist for the City of Montpelier. Welcome. For those on Zoom, thank you for zooming in. We have a small crowd here tonight, not as big as Saturday, but we're going to start with a presentation from our consultant Stephanie White. Stephanie Clark. And then we'll do some Q&A. First, we'll take questions after from members in the audience here first. If they could please come up here to the microphone or if you don't want to walk up to the microphone you can project from your seat and they should pick it up. After there's no more questions from the audience, we'll go to Zoom to answer their questions. So I'll introduce you to Stephanie from Whitenburg. Great, thank you. Good to see you all here today and to see you on Zoom. As Josh said, I'm Stephanie Clark from Whitenburg and I'm representing our team, the consultant team, that was hired by the city. Whitenburg paired up with VHB, which are engineers who do the environmental and the site work, the site assessment, as well as BRD, but lack of design, the architects helping on the planning and assessment as well. Did you want to pull up the slides as well? So we have been hired to help shepherd this process and then get into the planning for the master plan. Tonight I'm going to talk about the process and we have a slide deck here, minimal slides, but just for the audience here in person and on Zoom. That will come up shortly for you on Zoom and the purpose is to explain the process and to talk a little bit about what we're planning to do for the next few months, several months, and the different points of engagement for the community and also then tonight to take a good amount of time to hear input, questions, priorities from the members of the public. So that's what we'll get into. And first off, the property has been known now by a few different names. The Elks Club property has also been known as the 203 Country Club Road site. We are calling it the Country Club Road site. The 203 kind of being less relevant. So the Country Club Road site is its working title. So you may hear that interspersed with the old name too, but we're trying to keep it consistent for the purposes of a holding, really a holding pattern until we have an actual plan and a vision for the site that may beget its own name and have its own identity. I guess are we good with the slides? Okay. So the timeline here that you can see, are you going to do it as a show or is that not possible? I know it's sometimes hard to run it at the same time, but it doesn't matter, just to make it bigger. So what we're here to talk about today is the actual process a little bit. We have not quite gotten into any of the site data. That's forthcoming, which I'll explain. So I kind of know what you know now about this property. So starting back in the spring, the city was involved in putting this to a vote for the purposes of housing and recreation. It was then there was a public meeting and a public input period, and all of that input was collected. And now we have it's on the website, all the input collected up to September's on the website. And then over the summer, the RFP went out to hire a team. And that's when we came on board and started to begin the assessment process and then start doing some of the additional listening sessions. So right now in fall 2022, we're continuing to take community input and start talking about prioritization about people's interests in the site and how to use it for in perpetuity, you know, what is the long term vision for the site? At the same time concurrently, we're doing the site due diligence. And that is the looking at all the natural resources taking before the snow flies, you know, get the inventory of natural resources, look at wetlands assessments, look at the topography, look at all of the things you need to know about the foundation of the site to know what the site is actually entails. And once we have that information, we're putting together what's called opportunities and constraints plan, which is really going to show where the developable areas are in on the site. There may be some undevelopable areas, whether you know, whether that's caused by, it could be topography, it could be primary agricultural soils that are really hard. Yeah, we have to be very careful around. So there could be some, some opera, some constraints like that. And then there's opportunities where there's just really, you know, excellent conditions. So we have to think about that. But layering it with the public input. And that's the winter phase. And we're really focused on creating a very robust public input period during that phase, where people have something to respond to. And we're looking at the qualities of the site that we can then talk about more constructively with all of the uses that those that the town that all the folks in the community have envisioned. So we'll be doing public workshops, lots of outreach in different ways. So not just some charrette style meetings in public, but also some stakeholder engagement at places where maybe some people haven't ordinarily gotten a chance to have input, doing a lot more education and outreach, trying to find people to educate with fly information flyers or a packet, possibly a survey at that time. Coming out of winter, though, once we have a few a little more direction from city council, who will then who will be taking up all of that public input, we plan to come back with two to three concept plans, and kind of development pathways that we can talk about again in a series of public sessions that are going to really look at looking at pros and cons of different scenarios, including cost high level magnitude cost estimates. You know, some possible scenarios may require quite a bit of infrastructure for the city to implement to to invest in. And maybe that's worth worth it for the vision we're looking for. But that's a cost. And so we have to look at those in comparison. So that's going to be the public feedback process. And then following that, the city council will make a decision and a guiding a guiding decision that will come together in an actionable max master plan that the team will create that will have series of recommendations and next steps for further phases, such as, you know, looking for financing sources to do the infrastructure that we want to do possible rezoning of the property, possibly getting an extension of certain designations like your growth center boundary, or maybe a new town center boundary, we don't know. Right now, it's too early to presume. We have this timeline set. The winter phase, the reason we're leaving it more broad is because after we do the initial set of meetings, we may find we need additional research. For example, traffic, if you know, we some of the design or some of the concepts that come out, have some of the development in one node of the site that may be a very different traffic impact than a different node of the site. And so we may want to go back and do a little more research. And if that's the case, then we might come back and do it iteratively a few times with the public over the winter timeframe. So that then where we come out in the spring, it may be early spring, it may be late spring as a result. And it may be early summer before the actionable master plan is is released, we don't want to rush this process. That's something we've been that's been encouraged by the city council not to rush this because we want to see what the public process, how it unfolds, we can't presume to know how that will unfold. Next slide, I think. So as I mentioned, the public has had a chance to do some input to offer some input. It has ranged. As you can see on the public document, we also have some handouts over on the table over here, including the public comment that has been received to date. So folks in the audience are welcome to take that with them. It ranged a lot. What we've heard so far, everything from housing and recreation, which is what was it was intended for in the vote, but also agriculture and environmental conservation and stewardship, as well as retail out there. So, you know, that's there's a lot of different uses that have been suggested, and some are not in direct cooperation, you know, there's a higher priority for some people for housing, and not so much recreation, and some people want more recreation than housing. So, you know, of course, this is not going to be a site that can, it's only 138 acres. I can't satisfy every need of the community. But it's good to hear all those different voices and see how that can come together and really create a vision that works for the city. I should say that one of the things we could end up seeing is a phased approach where you don't master plan the entire thing, all in 2023. Because maybe, because this is a legacy site, and it does have a long, we want this to have a long lasting impact, and you don't know what all your needs will be over the next few, you know, next several years and decades, maybe there's an opportunity to reserve for future phases land that gets developed later. So maybe, I don't know, but I just put that out there because that's what we talked about, a legacy site. We're looking at a long impact of this property. And I think that brings us to the question for tonight. You know, what we'd like to hear from the public tonight is what do you want most for this property? And what are some of your concerns? What are some of your concerns even about the process? If you want to speak to those and there's a way we can accommodate those or suggestions about how we can find people to get the most input we can during that winter phase. We're all ears. We're actively updating our outreach plan that is an outreach document that has lots and lots of sources or spaces where we can find people. And we're kind of starting to just create this directory of how we get in touch with folks. So if you have ideas about that, we're open to that as well. I think that's pretty much it that I wanted to say just to open it up. But if you go to the next slide, we have a map of the site tonight in the audience here. It's a little hard to see because of the lighting, but you can see East Mount Pilger Road at the bottom of the screen. You've got these two wooded nodes on either end. Kind of bookending the site with the golf course in the middle. And you can see at the bottom, and I'm not doing a great job of pointing because I'm a far away, but down there. Oh, thanks, Josh. There's the cut, the the Elks Club building itself. And part of the I should have added that during the site assessment phase, the building will also be assessed for reuse, your usability. So how can it be possibly repurposed? How much of the building is, you know, sustainable or reusable? That can vary a lot. And that's out of my expertise. That's the architects that will look at that. But if, you know, a recreational use is needed, is desired for that part of the site, could it be reused as a rec center, could it be added on to, is it suitable for housing, so forth. So we have to look at that too. And that's why Black River Design, one of the reasons Black River Design is on the team. Is there anything else I've missed to kind of cut her? So with that, we'd love to take input. We'll leave the map up because it's easy enough place to kind of point to folks have questions or concerns. And yes, and if you would just state your name and where you live to help us orient, that would be helpful. You are welcome to speak from the audience if you project or you can use the mic. Phyllis Rubinstein, College Street, Montpelier. I really appreciate this presentation. And I have a question at this point. Who have you hired to do the natural resources assessment? That's all coming from VHB. And what is VHB? They're in South Burlington, they do all manner of engineering, environmental resources, environmental engineering and consulting. It stands for Venice, hanging in Brussels, but nobody knows it by that. It's VHB. If you do, it's not known by its longer name anymore, really. So VHB out of South Burlington and the team that we have there is going in, they've already gone in actually and started the work because they had to do it before the ground froze to be able to do that work. Do we have any other questions or comments from the audience? Matt Wilson and I live in Berlin. So from my perspective, working for Community Service Department, one of the things that I noticed was I worked really well is our face senior meals. We host meals on wheels every week, deliver meals to the public. And I'm just wondering if there are opportunities to use the kitchen to do communal meals, if there is housing or possibly congregate meals as an opportunity to bring folks to that site. So if we don't have any more further comment right now. Oh God. Phyllis Rubinstein. I am one of the people that feels very strongly that the country club property is unique and that it should be preserved as much as possible for conservation purposes, recreational purposes. I certainly think that agricultural purposes are also a good idea. In terms of education, certainly school groups can go up there for educational purposes. I don't think it would need a building. I am not in favor of any large housing project or development. I heard that there's been some talk about rezoning, so there could be 400 units in that property. The infrastructure would be massive through roadways. And we're talking about an area which is, as you mentioned, it's bookcase by two forested plots. Behind it is all forest as well. So it's actually forested on three sides. Below it there is a wetland. There is a small brook that runs through it. If one goes there any time of the year you will see that the deer, in the winter you can see where the deer beds, where the deers have bedded down. You can see their droppings. It's alive with birds and small mammals as well. So it's a very important wildlife corridor for Montpelier. And I think that if that is highly developed, we will just be seeing more deer and bears in our neighborhoods. I live on College Street. There were bear in the College Street area last spring and summer. And they're going to have nowhere else to go. And so I hope that the, I just quickly looked at VHB. And I did not see any listing of who their naturalists, who their biologists and botanists are. Several years ago, I think in around 2007, Brett Angstrom did a natural habitat survey for the city, for Montpelier, for the Montpelier Conservation Commission. And I think it would be very important to take a look at the natural habitats wildlife corridors that have been already identified and make sure that those are preserved as much as possible. I would hope that any development, if it takes place, is along the roadways that already exist. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Something that you said actually reminded me, I wanted to mention, and then we'll get to, we're going to open it up to the comments for folks on Zoom. One of the things we will be looking at when we, when we look at opportunities and constraints and when we start developing the concept plans is really the context of the site too, because you make a great point that it's bordered by other woods. It's bordered by other natural corridors and trails. And so we have to look at the site within its context. And we have to look at the site relative to the other infrastructure around it. And so we absolutely, we will, you know, be looking at that and taking that into the whole consideration of the big picture. So I appreciate your comment and I appreciate the opportunity to hop back in with that. So with that I'd like to turn it to any, okay, we have one more comment in the audience and then we'll go to those others. Sure, I've got more than one. First is a question. Is the, include the comments from this past Saturday? Okay. When we are finished with this whole process, we will be putting together a new document with all of the new comments. So I, without seeing the environmental limitations of the property of its straight edge and its slopes and its ledge, etc., it's really hard to brainstorm about what might be possible. But in the sense that it is not located in the village center where I went to planning school here in Montpelier at Woodbury College and it, there's this emphasis for decades of like we're going to try to infill in our village centers. And we don't have, our master plan is woefully out of date dating back to but 2010 maybe, 2009. And so we're basically not working with a full deck here. We really need to understand what we're going to be able to do in town before we start overbuilding areas that might logically be preserved. If, if we were to develop this large property, it should be more like a satellite downtown of a, maybe two or three clusters of housing with mostly open space. Again, not informed by the limitations of the, the physical site. I would like to see, I'm told it's troublesome from a discrimination point of view. I'd like to see priority be given to folks that are here because they were, we're going to see in the next decade an influx of climate refugees that are going to swamp New England and to just tolerate and displace all the local people, you know, and hope that some of the people coming here will want the jobs is, is folly. I think we really need to get serious about possibly rent control, infill. We might need to exercise some eminent domain. We need to look at the, what's the property that Food Works is on? Whatever that road is. Home Farm Road? Home Farm Road property. I mean we, we also have immediate needs. I'm glad that person mentioned the kitchen. I noticed on Saturday the third set of public bathrooms that are constantly locked to the public. We've got a lot of unhoused people in this town and city hall bathrooms are egregiously locked most of the time. Very selfish on the behalf of staff. Very neglectful to watch the sewage run into the river. Same at transit center. Those are public, the city owns that building, those bathrooms need to be available. These bathrooms, we could potentially, we might have a hundred unhoused people as the hotel problem. So we might should, I don't know who's muting. We might have a real problem this winter that this could provide some cushion for a period of months that needs to be considered. But the kitchen making it available, making potential bathrooms. I would start now putting a shower or two in there. I mean we've, we're paying for this. This is our, our property and we really need to get our priorities shuffled. It's nice to have the luxury of a you know year-long design suret. But we've got immediate needs that have been long neglected. So, thank you. Thank you. All right let's uh let's open it up to some folks on Zoom. I've not done this before. You can see this. Okay, Shayna has a question. Hey, I'm yeah, I'm Shayna Casper. I issue pronouns. I'm the chair of the Montpellier Social Economic Justice Advisory Committee where we have been, can you hear me okay? Sorry. Oh okay, I just heard something, some feedback. And the Montpellier City Council, we were supposed to meet on this this morning but our regular schedule meeting wasn't warned. So thank you so much for that heads up Josh and apologies that we weren't able to connect ahead of time. So we got started in 2018 because we wanted to the the city wanted to address and reshape the systems and policies and practices that perpetuate these barriers to social and economic justice and in our committee including identifying and nurturing potential projects and policies and opportunities that address you know systemic oppression and work towards greater equity in the in our city and included in that is engaging I really want to I'm here today to really speak about the our of the outreach and the participation process of really wanting to make sure that we're engaging in a really broad range of city residents and I recognize that this is this is the the first step and of building really deep and authentic and long-standing partnerships with other working groups or community and stuff working towards equity and justice to build these long-term far-reaching projects and goals and developments to you know ultimately long-term to continue to build and increase equity and justice in Montpelier. So a couple of years ago we developed an equity budget equity assessment tool of which I think some questions that could be used in kind of lists of different communities could be could be really helpful. So of you know just continuing to ask kind of throughout the process of like what are the social, economic and racial justice impacts of this budget of this decision on marginalized populations in our community who will benefit or be burdened by these decisions and what strategies are there to mitigate any unintended consequences of these decisions and if none exist how to create them and recognizing that having people participate in answering those questions and in participate in in that process is really powerful and part of the ensuring that the process centers people most impacted and one of those things that we've been working on which we're really really excited and proud of and we want to just get out at every opportunity possible is that we now have stipends for participation in city committees and so these stipends can be used for anyone to part or if you're a member of a city committee regardless you don't have to do any needs testing it's you know you can use it for for dinner or for ordering in dinner or for child care or whatever is needed to support your participation in the city committee and think that some sort stipend process could be really beneficial for for this process as well you know we've we've kind of got it's the first come first served budget and line item from the city council and at last check we we are doing we have plenty reserves there for this process so yeah so just wanting to continue to kind of like identify those questions of who is impacted by these decisions what are the potential positive and negative impacts and what are the you know not recognizing that some of the impacts could are you know deal breakers to use that language but more of what is what is the plan for engaging and for mitigating with that and just recognizing you know some of the key communities that we want to ensure are participating in this process are you know people of color black indigenous people of color you know refugees and undocumented immigrants LGBTQIA plus community people experiencing homelessness people struggling with substance abuse disorder people's low or no income people without access to reliable transportation people without internet connectivity people having mental or physical disabilities victims of domestic violence and children and seniors so just to really ensure that we're wanting to support this process we've been working with consultants who have kind of separate lists that we can email out about the process and yeah looking forward to to continuing to have this you know robust engagement thank you Shayna I appreciate that comment and it highlights that I didn't get into I had a note and my slides aren't in front of me sorry so talking a little bit more about our this October November outreach process and the different ways we're trying to gather input at this phase and then you know setting that as one of the first stages for an even more robust as I said we're trying to accumulate lots of different sources and ways to distribute that in the winter time frame but one of the pieces of that was we are meeting I believe we're going to have a meeting soon with the committee chair committee chairs not just see jack but also homelessness committee and housing committee to and for exactly that I was really scrabbling questions down so my notes are going to be a little shady and it'll be good to meet with you to actually get those because that's the exact kind of feedback and input we need right now on process as much as it is about the actual ultimate uses because what we're doing now is building that infrastructure so I really appreciate you mentioning that and I look forward to meeting with you in particular and your committee members to to kind of build that into the process and try to you know that's why we've been reaching out to you know folks about trying to find ways to access the senior community possibly through the meals on wheels program when it gets to maybe the January process having something to be able to be distributed that for people who may not want to participate online who may not want to participate on an online survey so all of those are really really helpful and I did not know about that budget and the stipends so it's great to hear I think we'll go to another comment from the can you explain the name screen Linda you can you have your hand raise yeah sorry I thought somebody else asked a question I'm Linda young I live on winter street and I'm mostly just listening but I will say I'm one of the people who declined to vote when we were voting on whether or not to make this purchase because I I heard both sides and thought both me compelling points it's exciting to have this piece of property but I'm I'm concerned about I mean I don't I honestly don't feel like we can afford to just hang on to another piece of undeveloped land we've got our parkland already and we haven't unmet needs has it been well pointed out but my biggest concern about this piece of property is that it is not in the center of town and that could potentially be an upside if we play our cards right but I think the biggest concern is transportation and I heard that loud and clear from a number of my friends who are challenged in that department and even from those of us who you know drive regularly but don't particularly want to get in the car if we don't have to so I I just want to put in a word for strong encouragement to focus on on how to solve transportation if we're really going to do something with this property thank you Linda and that is a message we've gotten a few times now to accessibility like you said there could be some upsides to the to the area around it that it is serving but there's an accessibility issue as well transportation issues so thank you for that I like the idea of having a you know another center a second center a satellite or something but we need we need a way to get back and forth Alyssa yeah hi everyone Alyssa Sharon I live on Isabel Circle in Montpelier thanks for having this meeting and it's great to hear you know all the different perspectives and I want to engage to talk a little bit about solar and the possibility of solar on the property though I couldn't agree more with the transportation needs and also would like to see and would support some form of housing on the site and would also love to see the bike path in some way connect directly to the site so that that increases the accessibility of biking and walking straight into that area that said my primary purpose of joining today was because I think in Montpelier the city of Montpelier I understand has maximized the solar that they need and can do for the city but there's a lot of nonprofits and churches and city buildings that would like to do solar but don't have sites that are viable so I could imagine you know the city having an area that is designated to solar that maybe they accept applications for from nonprofits or local businesses in town where you know we could lease land from the city to get some you know renewable energy I'm on the vestry at Christchurch in Montpelier we would we have a donor who will invest in solar we can't find a property to do it and we've been looking for like a year so it's when we're having that kind of you know challenge you got to imagine we're not alone and there's others in town that want to to invest in solar too and maybe there's an opportunity on this plot of land to do it that would be a win for the city and win for a lot of local nonprofits or businesses in town who can't go solar well thank you Alyssa Peter yeah yes thank you can you hear me can you hear me yes we can hear you okay Peter Kalman I live on Mountain Dew Street all the way across the other side of town from this site and I went to the first session on the site and I just want to report a couple of things one I was struck by actually how little woods there was actually on the property yeah the property is surrounded by woods but there's not that most of the most of this property is open and I think that's something which everyone who was talking about natural space should should should check that out the second thing is I have children and grandchildren who live here in this town and it was notable at the meeting in on the site that there was only one person I would say who was under the age of 60 or 65 at that meeting and she actually made a very poignant statement about that she said that young people don't feel welcome in my failure and all of us gray hairs applauded her when she said that we applauded her for her courage I think we've got to in thinking about social and economic justice issues also recognize that young people with families are really disadvantaged compared to us older people who came along at a time when we could build up equity in our properties and and so forth I think housing okay so then the other thing is I have to say that at that session where a lot of people talked I heard housing first housing first housing first and you know what second was natural resources and there was barely any talk about recreation which I found to be quite interesting since it is kind of you look at it you go wow this is a recreation place but that seemed to be the sentiment that I saw finally I would like to say because I'm on the my ride community advisory group there are obvious transportation solutions my ride being one of them which is just in its pilot year but it's working very well despite some grumblings that you might hear and it basically is like a public transportation that works like Uber or Lyft it's not going to be hard at all to get to that place in some ways it will be as easy certainly as getting to the Rec Center out on Elm Street even though it's slightly further away but I think there are much more natural connections and eventually Savings Pasture is going to have some development probably along Barry Street and with Caledonia Spirits and so forth Barry Street's really sort of lengthening out I think we're going to find that this is quite connected it will be quite connected thank you thank you just for context Peter the site contains about 80 acres of forested property and 50 acres of field 80 acres but the forested properties are all the way to the right and all the way to the left and everything in the middle is open right yes I know yeah you can see it there on the map and both the area to the left and the right which are I mean they're they're undevelopable they're gullies and so on and so forth I think those would be great natural areas I just don't understand why there would be any resistance to developing housing in the flat the relatively flat area of that was the golf course I'm not just praying with you right now thanks for your comment I think we'll go to Rachel and then we'll open it up with anyone else in the room have a lot of comments I can't see if there's anyone else thank you first I want to thank Shana for what she said earlier and because I agree with everything that she said I have to say that it's a little difficult coming to a meeting with so little information I've participated in these before and then I have no idea what happened afterwards what came out of those meetings and so in some ways I feel like why do I continue to come to these meetings when I'm not sure what the city is doing with the information that they want our input from I can remember a few years ago maybe five or so they had architects provide schemes for how we might work Montpelier or how it might look and it's like what's come out of that I mean I just there's that issue where I'm not sure what happens after we have several meetings and then I've never heard of any plan that's already in the books and how much is that going to be looked at although I just heard that it's pretty outdated it seems like these five-year plans should be looked at more frequently than that because you know the world is moving too fast now it's going faster than we can even take in what the changes are and I have no sense of what's the preliminary work that's been done on this property has it been perked I'm not sure of what is going to be allowed on this property you know what's going to be an obstacle or we can dream all we want but we don't know whether or not it's feasible because all of this preliminary work hasn't been done and I have also trouble with with definition like what you know people are talking about affordable housing well what does that look like that could look very different from from a lot of people I mean are we talking about you know middle-income families that can't afford housing or are we talking about unhoused folks or you know section 8 housing I'm in my 70s now I live in Montpelier I forgot to mention that and I live up on Freedom Drive and as I get older and look at what's available around not independent living well independent living assisted living you know unless you have money there is nothing around here I mean I worry about what am I going to do when that time comes when I can't live by myself because I don't have the resources to be able to hire someone either to come in or to go to a facility because it's costing like you know upwards of 60,000 plus a year and who has that kind of money I've worked for nonprofits most of my life and you know I'm lucky to still be in my own home so I just feel that for me to participate in something where I've been given no information is really putting me and everybody else at a disadvantage because we have no information whatsoever and this feels like just another one of those dream sessions and then we'll have no idea what happens to those so I'm not surprised that very early on there aren't more people participating people like to respond to something and right now we haven't given anyone anything to respond to so yeah I appreciate your having this meeting but I think in my mind we need more information before we can even start thinking about what to do with this property I have ideas but I just I don't even know that they're worth bringing them forward to tell to to be honest thank you thank you and in case you weren't on at the very beginning of the presentation we will have the video recording from this session and from the session that was held at the site on Saturday available for viewing we're hopeful in the next week or so we're still working on logistics but that in that the beginning of this meeting we talked about the process and where we are in the process and the due diligence of the site itself requires time and we were just tired to do that over in the fall period so the public input up till September is available to review we are in this phase now and we'll be bringing back the site information in the winter time once we've had a chance to bring it all together because there's a lot to know about the site to some of the comments here tonight there's a lot to the site there's a lot of environmental features of the site it's a big site we want to make sure we're comprehensive about that foundation and have that foundational work available for the next step which is going to be a more robust public process at that time so I appreciate that comment I want to open it up in case anyone in the audience hadn't had a chance to comment or had any questions or if anyone had any more questions from before yeah I just wanted to echo what Melissa had said about solar I'm not sure if you're familiar with Greenspar it is a sustainability park in Otterbury Center and it's an idea that I had thought of as a possibility because it could be both educational center for all ages but also you know a potential energy source and the three categories of exhibits they have at the sustainability park are renewable energy sustainable transportation and green building so if there's possibly a model that could be worked into the space it might be something interesting thanks you also reminded me of something else we wanted to say which is to you specifically because I know that you mentioned you're not from you're not living here in Montpelier right now and that's a part that's a that's a community we want to make sure are are aware of this process are able to provide input to some of the comments that were made on Saturday about housing access and equity here in the city people want to live here and consider themselves part of the Montpelier community and so we really want to make sure we're inclusive of those comments as well because the hope is that this is going to enable more folks to live work play here in Montpelier so I mentioned that primarily to ask any of you to get the word mouth out to anyone you might know not just limited to Montpelier residents but people you know who consider themselves part of the Montpelier community we don't want to be exclusive to residents only so do we have any more comments from zoom or in person I didn't attend the meeting on Saturday but I actually was told that there was discussion of recreation use and maybe this is the question to you Bill that I'm not sure who answered the question on Saturday but somebody made a comment that the cross-country scheme would continue and other recreational uses would continue even during this evaluation and assessment process yeah that's correct yes all current use yeah I don't I'm sorry so Phyllis just asked for those who couldn't hear and whether the existing uses hiking skiing walking on the site would continue during this evaluation period and the answer is yes everything will basically continue as it has previously we're not going to make any major changes except for whatever we choose to do with the building and then obviously once more permanent things are built and there certainly I think is a serious consideration about what facilities recreation type facilities could be there whether it's our rec center community center senior center there's a nonprofit group that is looking to partner with the city on developing you know rec hub they call themselves so that's all going to be evaluated in terms of need and that's part of the initial planning I'm speaking not just to you now Phyllis tell part of the initial planning for this is getting these ideas so that when we get the site constraints and we start thinking about what might go there we've got a sense already of what people are interested in and then can provide some ideas for response anybody else on zoom want to add another more than one Rachel you underhand up again it's interesting that since this property was purchased and the idea of having a housing on the property I'm noticing that other people are bringing up possible other sites where we might put housing and what are things you know what's going to happen with let's say the state buildings because people are still working from home and so you know and then we've heard of a couple of possible projects on northfield street one with habitat for humanities and bulbs brother buying and putting housing up there as well um I'm wondering is the city city still working or will be including the changes that are happening already within the city so that this project is not in isolation but that we're looking at making sure that we're staying current I mean I'm also here we have a rec department that we're not doing anything with because it would cost too much because of the remediation and I'm also hearing a lot about schools that we're putting more money in because the infrastructure is you know can't support and people are wondering why are we putting more money into that so I'm wondering what's happening with these projects that you know all that are already in place and people are feeling that they're not really supporting the community the way they need to I guess I just would hate to see that all of a sudden we've got like you know a couple of schools an old rec department I mean that are just empty and that there's going to be a demand for a new school possibly I don't know I'm just it just feels like you know I'm not going to question whether or not it was a correct decision about buying this property it's already done I guess I just hope that moving forward we have a little bit better idea of really what we want to do and what's what we're capable of doing uh because you know people want to come here but we have to be able to afford to live here too and there's a I'm greatly concerned about that thank you um so there's a lot to unpack there I'll try to be as succinct as I can on some of the key topics so with regard to housing I think for the last several years the city has identified and the residents have identified housing is really the number one priority there's a severe housing shortage in Montpelier specifically and really in Vermont in general in part because of the cost of construction of new housing so it's we have a situation we've talked a little bit about not wanting people to cut you know it was commented we don't want people to come in from out of state to buy up the properties we don't want we want to make ourselves affordable yet the the longer we have a scarcity of housing that will drive the prices up in the market that's what we're seeing in Montpelier now so without creating new housing we will remain unaffordable and you know when you're not and I'm not arguing for unlimited taxes don't get me wrong but when in when you're talking about mortgage and the price you know hundreds of thousands of dollars for a home a little bit on ones the annual taxes is a small amount compared to that in terms of the affordability of the community so that's number one so as a result we've redone our zoning to make housing make it more housing friendly we're aware of private several private initiatives that you mentioned too there are others but until somebody puts in a permit and someone actually goes forward and builds them and they're on private property even savings pastures private property so we can all sit and decide that that would be a great place for lots of things to happen just like we could sit and talk about great places for state properties this is a property that the city owns and so we actually can control the outcome and we can decide what we want to put there and I think that was the opportunity with regard you mentioned the rec center I don't want to go into great detail simply that three years ago it was going to be six million dollars at least to renovate the existing center meet the handicap the accessibility requirements meet the you know get rid of the asbestos and do those things in its existing location without really being able to expand its offerings so one of the you know as we weigh the cost of new rec facilities we have to sort of say okay because sooner or later we're not going to be able to use that building is it's a failing building it's going to be closed down so we either have to either have to spend the money to do what needs to be done at 55 Berry street or we need to do something somewhere else and this is an opportunity to weigh that you know those that six probably seven or eight million now against what it would cost to build a new facility and what we can what the city can get from it so I think it's important you know yes you know how do we with it and then we can look at the opportunities for the 55 Berry street you know earlier we talked about the needs for for sheltering the needs for showers the needs for places to be that's a prime central location that could meet a lot of those needs and I'm sure there are many other needs it could meet so I think we have to look at our our challenges and our opportunities um with regard to the other infrastructure issues you know we do have an old city the school I've not heard that the school was looking at a new building they have not communicated that with us perhaps they are I you know I know they're looking at some of their onsite facilities their athletic facilities and those kinds of things but I don't I'm not aware that they're looking for new school building right now although as a parent who had four kids going through the school system they do have two very old schools and one of them the middle school in particular doesn't totally meet the needs I'd say I mean it works but it certainly is an ideal but they're they're managing to make it work so that's all I have to but thank you for those questions I can actually get a little bit of insight on the school element just because I've been on the school board meetings I think probably what they're referring to is they are gonna have to do testing for a certain kind of chemical that I don't know the name of at the moment and if it goes over that threshold then there is going to mean to be a lot of money spent to fix it and that there's some funding from the state but it's kind of rapidly going away because a lot of schools aren't moving to social that's kind of my interpretation and there's nothing but that's kind of the idea we have I don't guess I don't see anything more on Zoom I did want to make to to clarify or to to add some further notes about process two that I mentioned on Saturday but just so that everybody has kind of same information I just had found this note that you know one of the things that this kind of spoke to what Bill was saying about the urgency of the housing crisis across the state one of the things that the a lot of communities in the state are doing now is actually taking a a driver's seat role the municipality themselves in trying to create more housing stock and create more opportunities and economic development opportunities because it really does take all hands on deck the numbers just don't work that's why we're in this crisis it's not because of we actually live in a state that has a lot of really very socially minded developers but they are they need to make a profit and there is and even a reasonable profit can't be made and with these construction costs especially in this current environment so it's really taking all sources to make this happen it's really taking all hands on deck and so municipality may choose to be to invest in this if they want to see a certain vision so the affordability and the term we heard on Saturday class list housing you know the city may be wanting to take a more active role to invest in the infrastructure for example to make that possible so that may be one of the considerations that comes up in this process when weighing out those pros and cons yeah looking at the urgency of the need and then what that would take from the community to make that happen so without any further comment what we'll do is we will try to get this recording and Saturday's recording on the website as soon as possible so and if you have people you know neighbors you know who are interested who want to view it there's also another one of these opportunities next Thursday it's a noon to one zoom session so that can hopefully capture anyone who may not have evening availability or didn't have weekend availability and who can only participate maybe during the day in which case we can you know also and then we'll also have that zoom link that recording on the website as well and if you want to go to the last slide real quick just because yes one one moment let me just grab this slide just to make a point that if you do have questions and further input after today please do send that to Josh he is compiling with us where we're creating this you know basically database of a lot of comments that have been heard to date and we'll put that all together and put that on the website as well over the next month where there's going to be a table at farmers market there's going to be a table on election day to continue to promote outreach and education as well as then giving people opportunities to know how to give the input and find you know this this information on the website there's a sign up to the if you are not already on the mailing list right on the home page there's a button that you can find if you see the flyer that we have here there's actually a a graphic of the button to find on the website to be able to sign up for the list serve the mailing list that goes out with updates there's updates going to be in the bridge and I'm from porch forum so we're trying to find as many ways to get in touch with folks as possible but again if you think of another way to get in touch and want to send that our way and if you want to continue to promote the information distribute the information of your networks we'd be very grateful and you had another comment Steve would agree again I think the confusion around the recreation is partially due to the fact that it was brought to the attention or it was spearheaded initially at the purchase time by the hub folks and I believe that folks are pushing back against a country club tennis club type almost elite you know consuming petroleum to go play tennis is not consistent with what our needs are right now you're also wrestling with a disenfranchised population we've had so many failed project after a failed project our car lot our transit center our district heat system our french block our even pioneer lane shop pioneer didn't have hot water for six weeks we've got such a failed management system here that people don't have faith that we could our input really matters and people are discouraged and somewhat hopeless disenfranchised and to restore that is more than you contracted for but it really if you got it if you want to do your job right you're going to have to figure that one out if we're going to do a you know a rec hub that belongs like on Green Mountain Drive where people can walk and bike to people are not going to bike out to this especially in the winter out to the Elks Club property or whatever we're going to country club road property I did like the idea that some people tonight expressed of senior housing combined with modest starter home housing where there's opportunities for folks to afford to live there and care for the seniors at a much lower I've I've been involved with folks that are paying six or eight thousand dollars a month and and it's it's insane and we're all going to get old and we're all going to need help and so if we can actually create some workshops up there use some of the the buildings or or different buildings to create workshop I hate the jargon of maker space but you know I've done wood shop work there's 3d printing people can make a living and not have to drive to and from town all the time by living and working on this property and there can be some light agriculture to support kitchen there can be a community center it could be a real vital and dynamic outpost of downtown Montpelier that provides food to you know and occasionally come into town to come into the downtown center to to to shop or to attend church so what we've learned from the transit center is that we hodgepodge folks into section 8 and you get people of different educations and different health habits and different family dynamics and you've got people trying to get out because you know mothers are yelling at their sons constantly it's there's a you can't just hodgepodge people together who come from such varied backgrounds and expect a healthy community to grow that needs to be very delicate it needs to be I'm not a social worker but I'm seeing enough of it so yes this was a rushed process to purchase that land on short notice ribbalene I'm confident would have held it for another year but we rammed it through because that's the way we mess things up in Montpelier that's probably enough for now Rachel do you just raise your hand we're not hearing anything I did but that was unintended sorry no worries thank you thanks all right well thank you everybody for the participation we really appreciate it we had a great a great turnout on Saturday I consider this is also a great turnout very engaged active group so thank you very much and we hope to see you again real soon thank you so thank you