 Hi everyone, my name is Vessa Bolesky, I'm the director of admissions and recruiting here at the Ford School. Thank you so much for taking time to come and meet with us today and to hear from our graduate career services team. They do a tremendous job for our students so I'm really excited that they get a chance to talk with you about their work and and the support that they provide for our students in our master's programs. So I want to introduce Jennifer Niggemeyer who's our director of graduate career services and alumni relations, as well as Peter Vasher who's our associate director of graduate career services they're going to chat up for a little bit and then there will be time at the end to have questions so feel free to, as you think of them drop those in the chat or we'll have time at the end as well so we'll turn it over to Jennifer and Peter thank you very much. So welcome everyone, we're actually going to do this as an interview, Peter and I are going to interview each other about our services, and hopefully that will set the stage for you to ask some questions as well as we get toward the midway point. So, as Beth mentioned I'm Jennifer Niggemeyer, the director of graduate career services and alumni relations, and I'm going to pass it to my colleague, Peter, who's going to start off the interview today. We're really excited everyone's joined us. So I'm Peter Vasher I'm the associate director of graduate career services here at the Ford School of Public Policy coming at you live from 735 South State Street, right here at the corner of State Street and Hill. So to kick things off, Jennifer, I hear the Ford School has intentionally invested in a robust career services and alumni relations team, specifically for graduate students. So can you tell us a little bit more about the team and kind of give an overview. Absolutely. So, Ford School does take its commitment to graduate career services really seriously both for the MPAs and MPPs and for PhD students. And we have a team that includes a staff that work on employer relations side of things establishing recruiting contacts and connections. We have a staff that work on the counseling side, providing one on one and group support. And, and then we also have an integrated approach where our leadership initiative is integrated into some of into our office with some shared responsibilities across staff, and as well as alumni relations being integrated into our office. So just a little bit about that, moving forward, but we talk about our service delivery in general as providing you with information connections, strategy and support. So that information about the world of work what can you do with a policy degree we know sometimes students come to the program and their career pivoting. They don't necessarily know range of options that want to do with a policy degree. And so we definitely have programs and services that focus on connection or on on that information. But once folks do have a sense of what they want to do, connecting with those that do that work is really important. And so that's where the connections aspect of our office really comes into play. So I think I will stop there and ask Peter maybe to unpack that a little bit, particularly about what's maybe unique about the Ford school in the ways in which we get to know our students in our, in our service delivery approaches. Absolutely. So I know you can kind of see the other teammates and colleagues on the screen right now so we are I think one thing that's very important the Ford school is community and that starts with getting to know one another. We are self contained to one building on the Ann Arbor campus so we're one of these small schools on the Ann Arbor campus so I think a really nice benefit of the Ford school too is you're a part of the larger you have on community. But you really have the individual focus of community here at the Ford school in Wild Hall, kind of overall and the ways that we get to know our students so we get will be reached out to you if you decide to come to the Ford school. And the summer of 22 so before you even come to campus, we get to know you. So we start with programming over the summer before you come. So we do a little bit of strength work in the summer to kind of help inform and your own values in your own strengths that you're bringing with you to the community we know that people are coming back, potentially to school after a number of years of work experience. So we just want to kind of help with that reflection piece as you're starting on a master's or PhD program here at the Ford school. And then we get to know you individually so we meet with every single students that comes through the Ford school, one on one to get to know your interests, where you want to go, are you making a career pivot, are you looking to move to California or are you looking to move to India. What is it that what is your why, and that's something we work individually with you on, and we're accessible site and we have 230 master students at the Ford school, you can see our team that we have available. We're here reaching out to you. So really get to know those interests and one thing we do is we meet with every student in August or September. And that goes in October, depending on midterms, anything that the students may have, or really to kind of get to know those interests that you're bringing what's your background what are you hoping to accomplish here at the Ford school. And then it's really that full life cycle journey if you're getting the MPP we work with you on your internship search. You're the MPA, and we'll work with you a little bit on the capstone to, but what are you doing here in your year or your two years to kind of set up that internship and then set up what comes beyond. And then everything that goes into that full life cycle of the career search will work with you on. We know that many of your bringing robust experiences with you and bringing a lot of expertise with you to the Ford school and we tap into that in the community to. We have a number of different workshops will work individually. We have one of our programs that maybe I'll let Jennifer talk a little bit about that we really enjoy is internship and job search groups so where we leverage the community and the expertise that you're bringing to my family talk a little bit about that Jennifer is one of our options. So we do lots of individual one on one but we also think it's really important and we know students have found lots of value in this to have accountability with each other. And so we organize internships groups in the fall for students that want to get a head start. And these are like between eight and 10 students that commit to four or five weeks of one hour a week getting together to focus on aspects of your internship search. And often students decide they want to continue on with their accountability and they self organize and keep meeting after the formal structure the program's over. We'll do those in the winter semester as well we also will do job search groups for those that are second years and PAs that want that type of small group accountability and and focus, and there really been a strength of the office. Lots of schools on on on Michigan's campus have replicated what we've been doing with these and many of our peer policy schools as well, because we have we found them to be really successful and really hard of building that sense of cohort and community for the school. In addition to search groups to we do, you know, we'll work one on one with students on, you know, interview prep, interview practice, we'll have different workshops. There's, you know, Casey solans our employer relations manager, we have a number of different employers that are coming virtually or to campus when public health guidance allows to connect with you. So there are a number of different opportunities for connection that build upon that individual and group support that you're going to get as a part of the community. Another really nice benefit to have kind of the gcs our team is the opportunity for every single student to get individual leadership coaching at the Ford School. If generally you want to share a little bit more about the leadership initiative to. Yes, so I work very closely with morella Hernandez as a faculty member, new to the Ford School, who is the director of the leadership initiative. And part of the piece that I'm responsible for is for students that are on internship. We, through the wonderful contributions of donors, we are able to provide each every master student with a leadership coach that is paired with you during the time of your internship. And so it's an opportunity to really lean into. How are you showing up at work. So not so much like it's not the career counseling, it's about how am I growing as a leader, how am I showing up what's my leadership presence how am I modeling the way, what am I seeing about good leadership in the workplace. And students found that really valuable. Last year was the first year we opened it up to all of the MPPs on internship. And this semester we have just launched for the master of public administration or public affairs students where they're going to be paired with a leadership coach. Currently with the time they're taking the core leadership course that is taught by Dr. Morella Hernandez. And so we're super excited about it and the coaches absolutely love working with Ford School students they have said it's their favorite clients. And, and that the issues that students are bringing to coaching are really similar to what the CEOs that they work with bring to coaching. And so the fact that you have access to this so early on in your career, we really see it as a game changer, and how it will help you advance your growth and development and your leadership developments. So, super excited about that offering. Yeah. So, Let's see, Peter, let me ask you a question now. We have let's see we talked about strategic. We've talked about information connections and support as part of what we've offered and we talked about the programming on the individual one on one. Can you talk about what we mean by helping students strategy side of their search. So, as we said earlier definitely working with each of you individually to see what is the best choice for you. And we know, you know, the experiences that you're bringing are going to be very they're going to be different and we, like I said we leverage that. We kind of will work with you one on one to make strategic decisions as as you like we're a resource here for you, and that can at times be pursuing opportunities that might be different from past experiences so it's what is the why that you're here what is the strategic choice you're going to make with your degree. So you're here you're going to have academics that are going to be challenging you and taking up time, but what else are you going to do strategically to connect with our large alumni base that's around the US around the world. What are the opportunities that you are going to be intentional in your own strategy to kind of explore different pathways so that could be connecting with an alum to do a mock interview. It could be going to an alumni office hour. But what are the ways that you want to explore pathways or sectors, while you are here at the Ford School. And in terms of your own strategy we recognize that a number of our students might be exploring parallel pathways, and that's absolutely okay we encourage that we want you to get into your own strategies from alums from employers so you can make a strategic choice in the last couple days I've talked to students that are weighing multiple offers, and we talked through the strategy of what is the right choice for you, knowing, you know, it might not be the one that pays you the most amount of money, but what is the right fit for you in your career. I would like to have those individual one on one conversations with students and kind of build a plan of during your time here at the Ford School. What is the right choices for you to explore or to make so you can get experiences and some of that will be I come from the private sector I really would like to get a local government experience, but I also want to get exposure to the federal government. How can I do that. Okay, I'm going to work part time, either for the city of Detroit, or doing a project with, you know, faculty member with the Detroit neighborhood entrepreneurs project so I can get some exposure at the local level and then my summer internship I'm really going to focus on either being in DC or Chicago and I really want to work for the government accountability office will kind of talk through that strategy of okay how can I achieve those goals. What do I need to do during my time here to make that happen. I'd say another strategy piece is, we learn from and talk with you about your experiences, we've had students that will go off on a summer internship or get a capstone experience the mpa level like, I am thankful that I have had this experience, because it is validated that this is what I don't want to do. So I'm going to look in a different direction, and that's okay too. But that's a strategic conversation you can have with us. And it's one that we're certainly happy to have with you as you're figuring out what is it that you want to do here and what is it that you want to do next as well. And with that too I mean we definitely leverage our alum network and Jennifer I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about how alumni relations is a part of our team here in graduate career services. Yep. So, about 10 years ago we made a very deliberate choice to pull the alumni relations function which generally in most schools is connected to development. And we pulled it physically out of that space and moved it on to what we call the second floor which is where student services is career services is. And so that alumni or alumni relations person would be very much involved in the life of the school and get to know students, often alumni relations picks up after graduation. And this doesn't seem like the right model like we alumni relations is it's a continuum. And so we wanted our alumni relations folks to know our students from the get go. And that includes playing a role in connecting those of you that will be admitted into the Ford School, you will have the opportunity to be paired with an alum to ask questions, what we call our admissions ambassadors program. So, so alumni relations is very much embedded in the life of the school, both in terms of an admissions focus in terms of fundraising our alumni board is very active they, they actually raise funding for internships. We'll talk about that a little bit. And so they're involved in increasing the visibility of the Ford School whether they're they're connecting us to potential speakers, or they themselves are receiving awards and they're acknowledging that they're graduate of the Ford School. But part that is most salient for Peter and I is the part that alums play in the career development of students. And that is from pieces of being employers themselves right so they graduate, they go work for a Deloitte and they come back as a recruiter, or they're they're working for the US Department of Transportation, and they know that they have some presidential government fellowship openings, and they're connecting back and asking, who are your finalists in this, this program that is sort of a fast track into the federal government. And then they play a really important role in just career advising being we do office hours with alumni where you can sign up for half hour with an alum of interest to you. It's available and then in the winter semester we do mock interviews with alums to help you prep for interviews that will be that certainly will be happening as part of your internship and job search. And then we have a series of programs where we bring alums in more formally through 40 Fridays which is an informal like a coffee chat. But it's structured where we'll have two alums come in and just really field questions from students here a little bit about their story. And then sometimes comes in and just do career conversations, or career conversations that are tied with recruiting for their specific organization. So, it would be you would be hard pressed to graduate from the Ford School without having had some significant alumni interaction. And, and, and they're just like they're giving back because people gave to them when they were students and that's culture. It's built into the culture from the start. So, um, yeah, and Peter anything else we want to say about alums, I guess that about their amazing careers and where they go and the impact that they have. Yeah, we can definitely talk about that. Our alums are really making a policy impact across, you know, the many different states many different countries, and it's, they're very connected to us. Yeah, the Ford School is we talked about that community piece. You know when they're coming back to attend an athletic event or something on campus, you know, they're dropping by like Jennifer said, it's, it's a place that, you know, people want to return to and pay it forward as they can. And they're doing that and their actual policy impact is in a variety of different places. So, but before I talk a little bit about the full time I just want to mention a couple things about internships is that's a great place to make an impact to for those that are potentially earning the MPP degree. And just super quickly, we, then a number of different ways that students will get that kind of internship experience. And there are a number of different employers that will intentionally recruit at the Ford School, and we have Ford funded internship opportunities for students to so just have no in the last two summers we've been in a pandemic and we've strategically worked with our students to ensure an internship experience that's either, you know, in 2020, that was 99% virtual and 21 majority virtual. So we have roughly a quarter that didn't go on and pursue in person experiences because that's what the employer wanted. And so, and we will see what public health guidance allows for in the summer of 22, but one thing the Ford School remained kid admitted to was maintaining funding levels so that's just one thing we want to note is we did not diminish any kind of funding that we provided funding to all students that requested it. So we have different levels of funding. We have Ford funded internships that are at the 7500 already 500 level with a number of key employers, whether that is different organizations and units from around here I can share a little list that we have here. You know employer paid internships certainly as well so there's a number of different opportunities at the internship level to get kind of that experiences are building to full time as well. And so this is kind of just showing levels of funding about a third of our students are going to get employer paid internships such as government accountability office, Deloitte guide house. We have the Chicago mayor's office, any number of places, and then also we have different Ford funded internships do some recent examples of some of our internships at the MPP level that students about the opportunity to engage with. Certainly as well and this is not exhaustive. You know in any given summary of 11010 students on internship at 108 different organizations. It is vast and varied and again it gets back to that strategy piece of what do you want to do, and where do you want to go, and that that global impact, and is is real, you know the block M that I have behind me, you're going to see that when you're traveling you priority met someone who said go blue to you about five times too many but we are proud and we're proud in the Ford school of where we're going and what we're doing. We have even more employer connections, but just getting to postgrad where students geographically are going. So we kind of have a historical top six. In terms of specifics so Michigan, DC, many different places internationally California Illinois New York and then any number of different states represented across the US and then across the world to. And specifically there are a number of different places yes we're based in Ann Arbor, but we do have that reach and impact kind of across the US, and the world to. And this is the same case for internships that people are going to many different places, and many different organizations. I'm a student learner, such as myself, sometimes like maps to represent different things these are kind of by destination worldwide recently in the last five years or so, where students have ended up on the international perspective. In the US, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea and China. And then if we were to look at this domestically the last five years you can kind of see so the blue states there are top five in terms of numbers, just in terms of representation in the last couple years and again, this is a cross sector so federal local state government, foreign governments, international organizations, consulting private sector government relations and a vast vast range of different nonprofits students are making an impact in a number of different ways. Here wondering if you want to share a little bit about the bonnet fellowship and the weaker fellowship that both have applied policy impact components. So we have two of the fellowship side Jennifer just listed there so the bonnet fellowship which will have an upcoming application in March of 22 for those that are admitted to the Ford school, and that has a built in internship component to it so our bonnet fellowship is partnered with the city of Detroit mayor's office so for those students they receive tuition support and scholarship for their academic pursuits, and then they also will receive a $10,000 stipend to pursue an internship with the mayor's office in Detroit so we have three fellows each summer. And that internship component is in a policy area of interest to you so it varies in terms of what department it might be within the mayor's office in the city of Detroit but it's a great opportunity, and our fellows have gone on to continue to work in the city of the local government in other areas, or in a variety of different spaces so it's a nice network as a part of that fellowship to you will join fellows who are at NYU and UCLA, and become a part of that broader network and then you can have the opportunity to attend the the reaker fellowship is a six month long fellowship we were directly on Capitol Hill in DC, working either in a Senate office, or a member's office in the house representative, doing policy work. And so that is an opportunity that's open to students in their second year of the MPP programs after they've done some policy coursework. You apply it typically in the fall of your second year or depending on if you're a dual degree student, and then you will spend from January to early summer in DC, directly working on policy in the Senate or in the US House so we have to Yeah, supporting a member of the Michigan delegation. Yes, sorry. It's focused on that so for instance this coming January we will have two students on the hill one will be supporting the work of Senator Gary Peters, who is the chair of the Homeland Security and governmental affairs committee, and the second student will be on the house supporting the work of Dan Kildey on his work on House case of needs. So to definitely positive experiences there in both opportunities are very competitive, but nice experiences that are only open to forward school students to Yeah, so we said we take half the time and we did. And so we'd love to open it up for your questions. Peter, I mean, maybe we could take the spotlighting off so we can see everyone and feel free to raise your hand or to put your question in the chat but we would love to hear your questions. If that wasn't clear anything you want more clarity on anything we didn't cover. Don't be shy. We're here. We love questions we love talking. We love listening to. We like getting to know you and your interests. It's actually something that we will do. We know who the class is for the coming year and who is admitted and accepts at Ford. We send out a survey over the summer and we will ask you what you know at this point about your career interests, and the organizations that might be of interest to you. And that becomes a basis for our employer outreach. Yeah. All right, I see a question Casey on mute ask away. Thank you. So I actually am hoping to start the program part time as I work. I work at the U of M already as staff. And so I really the bond fellowship seems very interesting but my question would be, is that, is there a restriction on when you have to apply for that so like I wouldn't want to apply for it next year. But I would say in like two years, or I think the, it's going to take me about four years to complete the program so could I in your three or four apply for that fellowship and still get it. I don't know the answer to that. We've not had that question before, but I would say that that is maybe a question to talk with Beth about. But in general, the students that have been the bonnet fellows have been full time, often dual degrees and so there is this juggling with another program. But we have not had somebody who's been juggling with full time work. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Yeah. But we just haven't encountered it yet. All right, other questions. I'll just add to that that we have a number of students that will work for the city Detroit outside of the fellowship to whether that's for part time during a school year or for the summer internship component for the MPP degree as well. Yeah, other other questions. So can I can I pose a question you guys Jennifer. Yeah, please. So, you know a lot of that, you know bonnet and recur is more domestically focused but I'm wondering if you guys can talk I mean we definitely have a lot of students that are interested in international work and international opportunities. I'm just wondering and obviously it's been a little different difficult during the pandemic but just wondering if you could highlight a few sort of, you know, places that we have really great relationships with because I know we have students that go all over the world. Yeah, and actually someone just dropped that might just drop that same question right in the chat. So, um, yeah, certainly we have developed lots of opportunities abroad. And some of our employers have been challenging in terms of the, in terms of travel right so where we have worked with our employers is to still offer those positions but to do it in a way that's remote. Obviously it's not ideal it's not really what students mean when they say I want to do an international internship but it is still international policy focused in its connection to those organizations so for instance. Last two summers we've had somebody work for the international organization of migration out connected to the Costa Rica country office, but that student has been in the US, not traveled there this year that could open up and it could be possible that they're traveling so you know we've had folks at the UN High Commission for Human Rights. I just learned yesterday about an alum who took a job at UNICEF that I am already on him about what do you think about internship possibilities this summer. And, and certainly students have found positions at the World Bank. I mean, I do a program on individually developing your internship. Obviously there are lots of resources that we make available. But I find that a lot of the best internships are ones where students develop it on their own because they have a very niche interest you know I want to work on water and sanitation and I want to be in Francophone Africa. Well, chances are we're not going to have an internship that specific because it's not going to be as like it's not as widely of interest to the larger audience of students, but working with you one on one to help you develop a strategy to create that internship by reaching out to the organization is it's really super fun. And we actually have a template that has worked numerous times where students have have adapted the template emailed it to, you know, a UN office in Bangkok, Thailand and within hours got a response saying we would love to talk with you about the possibility of an internship. So, you know, you can take a path of least resistance of relying on our resources which are great right I don't want to diss them. But if there's something that you really want to do that is you'll hear me talk about that in the bullseye of your career interests, then sometimes that means you're going to, you're going to want to create it yourself to get all of the different pieces lined up as best as possible. And then another question about international students at Ford and completing internships and yes our Ford School international students complete internships domestically in the United States. They'll complete them abroad in their own country it really just depends on what their interests are. But at the internship level. There's a lot of opportunities to mean it depends on what visa you might be on. In terms of the ability to complete internship we have a number of international students that do. And that that is with nonprofits with private sector organizations. Also, you know, local state government. There are any international organizations any number of opportunities for our international students. So there are some companies that will put restrictions on there. So there are some barriers that they will not hire international students at the internship or full time level. And that is a choice that they are making that we disagree with. But it's a choice that they are making, but a number of international students are finding very exciting opportunities that align with their goals for summer internships as well. And that's going to be your federal government in general is is not going to be a path for international students but but all other sectors are. Yeah. And then certainly students have also wanted third country experiences that again a little bit lower than in recent years because of the pandemic. Yeah, so professional development funds. So this is a pool of funds that are available for students that want to develop a skill and this year we actually expanded it to a leadership competency. You can request up to $500 in support for something that isn't already available on campus, and not just a networking like because because there are plenty of networking opportunities like it needs to be something unique. I would say in general students have often used them for conferences or for workshops where there is a new skill being developed. It's been underutilized obviously because of the pandemic lots of things on zoom have not had a cost, but we have had students that have used and access those resources to just expand on what is available to you. I think a big couple of years ago a big one was case competitions that were led by other schools and students needed to travel safe to Chicago or to upstate New York and they requested support from the professional development fund and that was a great opportunity. There are experiences where it's been an interactive experience to develop some sort of policy training not offered at U of M that students have have done as well. We're presenting at some sort of conference presenting at a conference for sure. Yeah, and there are other funds at the university available for that as well. Questions. Have we answered everything. You guys are just so good. But honestly, the more we know about you and your interests, like we will say this over and over again but it's true the more we know about you and your interests the more we can assist you. Yes, Liz go for it. Is that a hand up Liz. No, oh sorry, sorry it was my machine. I thought your hand was up but it was my cursor. Okay, so I had another thought I wanted to share the more we know about you and so let me give you an example. A student was in the office just the other day and talking about they want to do health policy and they want to be in Sacramento. And so, you know we had a good conversation I suggested a couple of organizations and alums they might want to have conversations with. And as soon as they left the office I'm not kidding you I got an email about an internship and a health policy organization in Sacramento. Right, so I just bought it right to the student I'm like oh my gosh like this is serendipitous. Maybe exactly what you're looking for. Obviously I share it with other students as well through our online system, but you know it's like knowing what you are interested in helps us help you. Any other thoughts or questions folks have. Mary. You're muted. I'm sorry I put it on myself. I appreciate all the information that you've shared. I'm wondering if students often become involved with the Michigan League for public policy, or other state priority partnership groups that kind of focus on fiscal policy. Yeah. Your answer is yes. The follow up answer is yes, and which of those do you want to get involved in. So we've had students work with MLPP through our program and practical policy engagement through like a practical learning project. Or some of those organizations through our strategic public policy consulting class, or just doing, you're not just doing but doing some sort of part time research or internship experience during the school year. So yeah so you mentioned budget and we've had, there's a lot of different budget policy opportunities for sure here at Ford, you might work closely with our close up or the Center for local state and urban policy here at the Ford School one of our research centers. I have a meeting tomorrow about a number of different Michigan state policy organizations looking to connect with our students. So, so yes, absolutely. We have a lot of alums at OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, the White House Budget Office, City of Detroit Budget Office. So, certainly, experiences on the fiscal side, you know, California Legislative Analysts Office, it's a lot of fiscal analysts work. And then on the monetary policy side, certainly connections with the Federal Reserve Board, as well as some of the regional banks. Okay, great, thank you. Yeah, lots of interesting organizations and employers. Other questions. So, we talked about, oh Casey was that a question. Okay, go for it. We can unmute you. Yep. So, I had a question about the MPA program versus the MPP program. I feel like I, maybe this is just an imposter syndrome kicking in, but I feel like even though I'm applying for the MPA program I feel like I benefit from a lot of the kind of leadership support and educational things that come with the internship associated with the MPP program. If you guys could talk about ways that MPAs just clarify that interaction. Yeah, so the MPA program is really designed for mid-career folks that have several years of work experience and is definitely a little bit more conducive to people that are staying in their jobs and wanting to do it on a slower track. The leadership coaching is very much still a part of that, the summer strengths assessment, which is part of our leadership initiative that's all open to MPAs as well. You still have access to the coaching and all the policy talks. And the capstone is not really an equivalent to an internship, but it is an applied experience where it's kind of the summation of your year in the program where you work with a client on a project. It's more of a research project that you'll identify with an organization and we encourage people to use those very strategically to position yourself for the kind of work you may want to be doing next. And so there is a lot of support. Liz Gerber right now is the faculty member who is leading out the capstone course for the MPAs and we work really closely with her. She's incorporating strengths into the capstone class. I'll be doing some career related work in the capstone class around your pitch. And we'll be doing a panel of MPAs that use the degree to reposition themselves in some different ways in their career. So we're very much invested in the leadership dimensions of that program as well. I think that where you would lose out, well, one is it's a longer program to do the MPP. And it tends to be a little bit more early in career, and you do lose out that summer internship experience. But if you're working, if you're working full time, you may not need or want that. But you know that's a question that we can bet or I can talk with you about. So on the MPA side for those of you that are thinking about that program. The way we structured it beginning this year is that I work with all the MPAs as your career coach, because it really feeds into how much I know about you helps me to best match you with the leadership coach, based on the conversations that we have and the things that you identify as where is your growing edge in your own leadership development. And it doesn't mean you can't use the services and participate in everything GCSE does absolutely can, but at least initially I want to meet with all of the MPAs. I work with MPPs as well, but that is, that's just one of the ways that we structured it this year and it seems to be working really well. I'm happy to touch base if you if you want to talk about your specific situation. Just shoot me shoot me an email. Okay, I'll do that. Thank you. Yep. So I do see another question Peter you want to take that one around examples of environmental organizations for interns. Yeah, so we've got a number of different options there's thanks for the question Aaron. But recently you know we've had students directly go and work for the EPA actually have another meeting with one of the offices in DC on Monday. And actually one of those is working with an alum of the Ford School, and then they've made those interns have made such an impact that there are other units within the EPA that now want to have for school interns. So, EPA, the governor's office here in Michigan the Executive Office of Policy, focus on environmental policy leads for the state. And then there's intern there the Michigan Environmental Council Eagle or environment relics and energy within the state of Michigan is another example too. We've had students that have gone on to work on the hill specifically focused on some environmental issues and students that have worked in DC at think tanks focused on different environmental issues. And then also the environmental consulting space, we've had a number of students kind of go on to different firms as well to work in that environmental policy, and then a number of other nonprofits. So I think the question of you, Aaron, where and how do you want to work in environmental policy, the EDF climate core, we've had students complete that internship fellowship recently to partner with nonprofits think the most recent example for that they were over at sustainable New Jersey working just outside of New York City. There's a number of different environmental policy opportunities. And a number of our students will also be involved in environmental policy at U of M where there's a number of different collaborative opportunities to work with our School of Sustainability too. So a lot of options, depending on the interests. And at the MP a level to we've had environmental policy at one of our alums is now that chief sustainability and resilience officer for a major city in the US. And so that, yeah, their environmental policies definitely top of mind right now any other questions. Any other questions for the group. I don't see any. I just want to say that the support side of our office hopefully you felt a little bit of that through all that we do. And you know what there's a support that we just provide in the highs and lows of a job search. There will be jobs that you are a final sport and you don't get and we are there to help you vent and help you redirect and, you know, acknowledge how difficult those can be, and we're there to support you as you negotiate salaries and make decisions between offers. And just to be a sounding board is you balance the multiple factors your career decisions do not happen in a vacuum there are multiple factors, family dynamics commitments responsibilities that we have that impact on our graphic mobility that impact on some of the choices and, and that's why we are where every story is different right there. There are no two students career path is identical. Because we all bring identities and backstories and preferences to our work and to who we are and to the impact that you want to make in the world. So we hope that you complete your application to the Ford school and that we will see many of you here in the fall in person. I think there's cross that we stay the course on all of that. And I guess we'll turn it over back over to Beth now, but thank you all great questions. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you, Peter. This is all really helpful. Hopefully, you all got a chance to sort of hear the great supports that are provided by our graduate career services office. And I'm confident that they would be happy to answer any follow up questions if you have them. So just wanted to remind you again that the last webinar in the series is going to be on January 6 with our dean Michael bar. So if you're able to join us for that, that would be terrific. I just wanted to make a quick reminder that the application deadline is January 15. So, thank you so much again for coming and have a good afternoon. Thanks.