 So I am Chris Brooks and I'm a staff writer and organizer with labor notes. I'm very, very excited to have a facilitate this discussion here tonight. So before we get started is wanted to take a minute to introduce labor notes to anybody who may not know who we are. So we are a media and organizing project that's been around for 40 years. We just turned 40 this year. Our entire mission is to give rank and file auto workers and workers all across all industries and sectors. The resources that they need to build a fighting labor movement. So to do that we publish a monthly news magazine. We have a website. We publish books on organizing and lessons from fights and struggles all around the country. We organize troublemaker schools and other conferences, including a big national conference every two years. The next one is coming up April 17 to the 19th in Chicago, where you can expect thousands of rank and file workers from not just the United States but even all around the world to come and share their inspiring stories and lessons about organizing in the trenches and how to fight and win. So we hope that you'll join us there. So to help build out these networks we also host these webinars on a regular basis. These are opportunities for workers to hear from each other to talk on through issues that they're facing and to think about how to move forward. So that's what we're hoping to do here tonight where we have several folks on the call with us. Starting out I have Beth burial as a second tier materials handler at a parts warehouse near Flint, Michigan. Hi there. Good evening. I also have Jesse Kelly who is the recording secretary of the General Motors unit of UAW local 160 at a tech center in Warren, Michigan. She was hired as an Aremark employee at the tech center and then was hired by GM as a temp where she was a temp for two years and is now a skilled trades apprentice. Hi everyone. And then also on the call is Jane slaughter. Jane is the former labor notes editor who covered the auto beat for 40 years, and was herself an auto worker at General Motors in Chrysler in the 1970s. So if you could kick us off here tonight if you could just give us some context about the strike and about the settlement that it's just coming down. Well, I think everybody knows this is the longest strike the first real strike that GM has had since they struck in 1998, and shut the company down for 54 days and they did that by just taking a few crucial parts of it. So this is the first big strike since then the consequences were watched all around the country by people on both the business side and the labor side. And I really want to start by giving a shout out to the rank and file, because from what I could see this strike was kind of wrong on people that there wasn't a whole lot of union, many locals, and not a lot of clarity on what the goals were the things that the union would put online what its goals were were very vague like fair wages or affordable health care. And yet, somehow the rank and file adopted as their own the idea that the main goal of the strike was justice for temps, and to bring everybody up so everybody was could experience equality and for the same wage so I was out on the bullet lines a whole lot of times I talked to dozens of people, and it was just really striking how almost everybody you spoke to said that they thought the number one priority was higher the temps and bring everybody up. So, so that's, I really, you know, I congratulate people for that that type of solidarity that they showed. But I got to say, if this was a strike to end tears. We can't say that it did that we had some movement, of course, and it's good that the people who have been tier two are finally going to get up to the full wages of tier one after four years. But those people are not getting pensions. And there are other ways that they're not going to be equal to the people that were hired before 2007. So, we're going to have the same peers that we had before under this contract that they'll just be some different people in them. And some of the people who are temps now will get to be hired permanently, but then new temps are going to be hired. And their wage rate is going to be $16 and 67 cents an hour for the entire time that there's temps they won't get any raises during the time that they're tense. So, I count at least eight tiers in the contract. There are still a lower wage for the people that work in warehouses who will top out at $25 instead of $32 after an eight year grow in. So, if you add them all up, I get at least eight years. Now, if it was a strike to keep some plants open. Well, we got one out of four. I have to think I don't think it was the strikes that caused GM to decide to build an electric truck at the pole town or the ham plant. I think they were probably already planning that anyway. So, although there are some gains in this contract, especially for the tier two workers and certainly the biggest signing bonus ever seen. I think if the goal was to end the practice of using temps and the abuse of temps, we have to say that that didn't happen. Thank you very much, Jane. All right, so Beth, we're going to go to you. What are your reflections on the strike and are you going to vote yes or no for the contract. Hi, thank you. My reflections on the strike are everybody did really come together for the temps and solidarity. We are already getting as an in progression play we are getting pretty fair wages. Our health care was taken care of. And based on the 2015 contract, we're already on our way to an eight year max out of our wages. But in the tent struggle and just go year after year after year without health insurance and without in certain plants and without any flexibility in their hours. We really did like Jane said adopt them into our fold and and really that's what we're fighting for. And we came back with not only no tears, but more tears. We're absolutely going to vote I'm voting no. And I know a lot of the people in my plan, especially who are temps are also voting no. Thank you. And just so folks know who are joining us on zoom there's a Q&A button that you should be able to access if you have questions for the panelists here tonight you can enter them into there. You can also enter into the chat and I'll be keeping an eye on that as well so we'll try to get some to some, some of the questions from the audience later on. So Jesse, same question to you, what do you what are your reflections on the strike and how are you going to vote for the contract. My reflections on the strike are amazing the community coming together and the solidarity that was felt on all those strike line was insane. I don't even describe it into words the fact that, you know, temporary is only make up 7% of our corporation and the rest of them, the rest of our corporation was willing to stand for them and really adopt that as one of the core issues. And as a statement point in this negotiations, it was phenomenal, especially because I was a temp for so long. I mean, it was just most empowering feeling in the world. So here's a contract that we have seen. I'm still very much on the fence with it. I see some good. I see a lot of bad. And that's an issue. I kind of try to look at it as a general of how everybody is feeling but there is a lot of positives in my particular plan for it. Apprenticeships is a huge one, we're going to get 400 new apprenticeships in the term of this agreement, and it's going to stick to that number. So the, the skill trades that are going back to so all of our skills will have the opportunity to go back to the tools if they're working on a production line, which is beneficial. But then you have things like customer care and after sales and GMC H that aren't benefiting from this contract whatsoever outside of health care. So health care is a really big one that we got to retain that going into this contract. And they're valuing it around $8 an hour per employee, which leads to bigger things and a political realm of things that we should adopt things that we should consider as skilled trades employees and American, but that's all they really have is the retention of their health care. If you are a CC or GMC way. And that's, you know, that's really unfortunate. And then cola fell off the table retirement to your fellow off the table. It's a rough one I'm still very much on the fence. So, Beth, you said you would vote no. What would you say to your coworkers who are nervous about voting against the contract, because they've already been out on strike for five weeks. I mean, being out on strike for another indefinite amount of time without knowing if the bargaining team is going to be able to come back with something better than what you have now. I absolutely get that I understand the tension of being out on strike and, you know, living on a lower income, but we a lot of us in the CCA plans and I know in some of the production plan. They were working a lot of overtime putting in a lot of inventory that GM had and we we've gone over to our lot. So have we've had these trucks sitting there for a long time and those lots are now empty. So GM is hurting for more trucks to be billed more parts to be shipped and right now is we have the math pinch point forward and forward and Chrysler are getting ready to go on strike their contracts are ending soon. And we have to remember in 2015 when Chrysler had their strike and then they were able to come back with an even better deal after the first one was voted down. So nobody stops at the finish line. We shouldn't be doing that now either. And Jesse, is there anything that you feel like could swing you one way or the other as to how you might vote for this contract. Do you feel like other people are on the fence like you and something might might make them shift one one direction or another. A lot of things make you make you shift. So for me, it's like point by point. I'm constantly changing inside of my head. I feel like a lot of the people at my site feel exactly the same way. Because it is about more than us and more than local 160 it's about you know the standard of living in America. And so that's what we always want to think about at the end of the day is like is this going to provide a better standard of living for the future generations and that's what we felt like we were out there for. So there's constantly that that swing shift and I think that the biggest thing at the end of the day public opinion. I don't think my people are fearful of staying out longer on the line. I don't think that they're fearful about the money that they're going to lose their biggest fear is that public opinion will shift. And if we do turn down this contract to the media will turn against us the public will turn against us and it won't make us as powerful as we were during this last 33 days. I agree with with Jesse about how many people, another thing that many, many people have said to me is that we're not doing this just for ourselves. We're doing this for workers all across America, which is, you know, not always an attitude that that is promoted. Often people are told, oh, you should just vote for what's best for you or they say what's best for you and your family. But a lot of people were saying it's not just about us. And, you know, you might recall that back in the 50s, the UAW was the leading union as far as getting new things. The first one to get COLA to get health insurance to get all sorts of things that then other unions were able to get. And then, when the companies first started asking for concessions in 1979, 80, 81, 82. Again, the UAW was the first one to take concessions and so started leading the train backwards instead of forwards. And I would love to see this strike as an opportunity for the UAW and GM workers to take the lead again and say, you know, yes, we're going to strike for everybody and we're going to strike for what we deserve. I read in the paper the other day that Detroit Free Press, in the guise of a news article, was very strongly saying that workers ought to vote for this contract. And the man's argument was, well, nobody else has got a guaranteed wage increase. Nobody else has got your health care guaranteed. And my reaction was, well, of course they don't have a guaranteed wage increase because 93% of the private sector workers in this country are not in a union. And we shouldn't be saying, to me, I've always said, you know, there's a special rung in hell for people who tell workers you should feel lucky that you have a job. The point of a union is not just to say, oh, well, we're better than in our wages than some other people so therefore we should just rest. The whole point of a union is to help you get more and to get what you deserve. And with GM making $35 billion just in profits over the last three years, obviously, they could afford to pay the fact that they were willing to take this strike for so long. Obviously, they could afford to pay. So I think, you know, there's two ways to look at it. One is to compare yourself to all the people who are not as fortunate as you to have a union job and say, oh, well, I should be grateful for what I have. And the other way is to compare yourself to what GM is able to pay and what people deserve for working like working as hard as they do in those factories. Beth, you brought up the fact that it's been really inspiring to see all of these permanent employees first year, second year all coming out to fight for the temps. And that has been incredible to see in the agreement that has been presented for the workers to vote on. It states that temps who are continuously employed by General Motors for up to three years beginning in January 2020, and then for two years beginning in January 2021 will be made permanent. So they define continuous employment as maintaining employment for without losing more than 30 days of work. So you could be laid off for up to 30 days over that period of time, two years or three years and then be hired on as a permanent employee. Should auto workers trust that General Motors won't lay off all these temps for 31 days or more. Do you think that the UAW is going to be able to enforce this? No, absolutely not. We've seen a lot of things that were promised to us that have been fallen have fallen through with the last couple of contract. I know my plan when we were talking about trade, getting trade apprenticeship, and we were told we're going to get many of those and then all of a sudden we have people passing for them and passing the test. And then also you just didn't hear about it anymore, and it never came up in my plan at least. I can't recall one single person who was pulled from the apprenticeship program who had passed actually into it from the testing into the program itself. It seems like a lot of times GM will put either tricky or vague language inside the contract just so they can wiggle around it later. So, especially with the raises, we have 52 weeks of work now instead of every year you get a race. So, if you have a baby, now your race schedule is off by eight weeks. And if you get help that's sick or in a car accident or you have a surgery or whatever, your raise now is dependent on weeks work instead of the calendar date. So, I wouldn't trust anything I can put in GM's hands. You bring up the wiggle room that reminds me, Jane. Isn't it been the case that the United Auto Workers has consistently one language that it says is going to keep the big three from being able to off-store more and more jobs to be able to provide greater job security and yet this hasn't worked. Yes, I think it was starting in 1982 that the union began getting a moratorium on plant closings in every contract and I believe the first one said, you know, there will be no plant closings. And so what did GM and the other companies do they said, well, we're just idling this plant will keep a little skeleton crew in there to keep the lights on but we're idling it and and they got away with it because they own the plant. And then as everybody knows this time their language was not that we're closing the plant not that we're idling the plant but we are unallocating for plants we don't have any product for them. So, so yeah I got to go with Beth on the wiggly use of language there. Yeah, and for viewers for folks to know in 1979 General Motors employed 475,000 workers in this country today that's less than 50,000. So the decline has been precipitous, both for the amount of people employed in the auto sector but also the way W membership. So, so Jesse, I'm interested to know. Um, we know one of the obstacles that rank and follow auto workers space during this strike was the massive corruption scandal that is rocked the way W's upper leadership, several officials have been indicted and former president Dennis Williams and the current president. Gary Jones or under suspicion. So, how has the corruption scandal played out in this strike has it had an impact in any way. I think it definitely has an impact. Um, it has an impact in trust with the rank and file compared to the leadership. It has an impact in the fact that we did spend a lot of our time in this contract negotiations discussing the CHR and making sure that that doesn't happen again. The way has an impact on the fact that a lot of this language is dependent on decisions that are made from our international union and the national parties. So if you feel like you cannot trust your international union and the national parties, you might not feel as good about the contract and the language that's provided in there as if you could trust them. So it definitely definitely has an impact. Um, the biggest impact would be the fact that when the, you know, all the presidents of the sub council went down to that council meeting. But when they went and voted on the actual tentative agreement, they had to they were stuck in a corner where they had to keep us out on strike because they had to prove to us that we were going to be the overriding authority on this contract. And if they would have made any other decision than that, I feel like it would have been an automatic no from everybody else. So that now keeps us out a week longer. That's a decision I completely appreciate. I'm glad that that was the decision at the end of the day, but it's kind of like in the background of every decision that's been made from here on. Yeah, so it seems like in some ways the strike in itself has has reflected the crisis of legitimacy, right with the UAW leadership. You mentioned CHR, which is the Center for Human Resources, which is the training center, General Motors, which is being dissolved under this agreement. Do you feel like that's going to help, you know, clean up the union a little bit moving forward. I think that it has to. I think the fact is that those two, like those two funds are going to be created instead of the joint fund, and that at the end of the day management is going to have complete control over those funds. So any decision that's made from the joint parties management would actually be the one physically taking that money out now. It's going to have to clean it up, which is very beneficial, but the fact that we even had to get here is a little alarming. So, Jane, you know, there have been many attempts over the years at reforming the United Auto Workers, the new directions movement, Jerry Tucker short stent as a director for UAW Region five, and of course auto workers caravan. So what are the prospects for a bottom up movement to transform the UAW back into a clean union and making it more progressive and militant and you know do you think that there's an opportunity here for the auto workers to build on the strike in the way that's energized and activated folks. Well, we've got we've got two openings here. One is, as y'all have just been talking about the corruption scandal has just made it abundantly clear if it wasn't clear before that there needs to be some cleaning out of some very bad apples and a whole layer of bad apples, I would say. I mean, before people could say they didn't like maybe what the National Union was doing, but they didn't feel like there was much that they could do about it now. Well, some of these people are going to be removed by force of law. So, that's one opening and the other, I think is, as I talked about before and the other two members talked about before the remarkable coming together around solidarity that we saw during the course of this strike. The, the fact that people, you know, felt that they were standing up for everybody and not just themselves and. So, I said, if there is any kind of national discussion over Facebook or however else it happens. Over the course of this coming week over what to do with the contract that could be a beginning of people coming together in a more organized way to say well what do we do next. There are two other things in regard to that one is the what you mentioned Chris, there's existed for some years now a small group called the auto worker caravan. You can Google it, I know they had a phone call this afternoon where they were talking about what to do and they have been, you know, consistent over the years and putting about putting out analysis is of the of the contracts and trying to get people together. Another is if you want to come to the labor notes conference in Chicago in April of next year we will be having a meeting of auto workers there. So, I think that the door is open a little wider now than it's been for a while to see some rank and file organization that could really make some differences what could people do. They could run for office in their local, they could run for office on a program of squeaky clean and we're going to stand up to the companies and we're going to enforce this language the way we think it should be enforced and, and we're going to, you know, get people behind a slate like that so that's what I would hope to see in lots of locals over the next years when elections come around. So for folks who are joining zoom late or watching us on Facebook live. I'm Chris Brooks the staff writer and organizer with labor notes that was Jane slaughter, the former editor labor notes was covered the auto be for 40 years. We also have on this discussion Beth burial who's a second tier materials handler at the parts warehouse near Flint, Michigan, and Jesse Kelly is a recording secretary of GM unit in the UAW local 160 at the tech center in Warren, Michigan. So, I want to ask you Jesse in the in the current agreement it allows for I believe 2000 for the buyout of 2000 workers who want to retire. They get a package of locally $60,000 to do that. What is to keep general motors from using temps as the new probationary period so rather than having 90 days and then you're permanently employed, saying that you're going to have to go two years at this reduced wage of little over $16 an hour or half of the top tier rate and saying that then you have to hang on for two years and see if you can make it. So they're saying that the one of their biggest wins in this temporary language is the fact that the international union and the national parties are going to have like full control over temporary language. So at the rollout meetings I'm sure everyone's going to hear this a little bit that, you know they cleaned up the language they gave you a path to permanent employment. And then they're going to say, even though you might not like this path that we've set out, we're going to have full control over this. So the national parties will come together and they will decide, like, will this site get temporary employees if so how long will those times be temporary temps for what kind of path will they have what work is going to be done by them, what percentage of temps are allowed in that particular plant and so they're saying like, we're not going to allow for the abuse, because so many people brought up to them that, you know this 30 day net might not be enough if you're retooling a plant, they're gone right there. I mean this 30 day net is not enough and they're putting their cards on the fact that, you know, we have full control over this now. And then that leads back to trust in your leadership. And that's what I mean about, you know, the scandal too is that if you have full control, what are you going to do with that full control you hope that they're going to do the right thing and that it's, you know, it's what they bargained for and it is as good as they're selling it right now. So you hope that they're going to say, okay, if we see them playing games with temporary employees or we see that they're trying to use it to make us competitive against other locals or other sites. Then, you know, we're going to stop them from being able to have access to the temps. And that is something that happened at my site. And at the end of the day the company was not willing to hire them so they walked all 350 out of them of them out on the same exact day. And that's devastating and then it came out to this part where the temps that were being walked outside I'm just glad the abuse stopped if they'd never had the intentions of hiring us, at least we're done at least we know we're not getting a carrot dangled in front of our head, you know, all day. So, it's really tricky because how many chairman are going to say, at least they have a job and how many chairman are going to say, make the abuse stop. And there's no answer to that. Bethany, what do you think about that? I think it's absolutely right. The fact that the contract even had temps in it was immediate no for me. Just because of the fact of you have the temps and you say you're going to control the percentage. Well, they said that last time they say at every union meeting they say, we're going to try and use that as a bargaining chip to get more hired in so we can do these other things. But unless there's specific language that says that we are not going to have time 90 days you're hired in regardless, then it's still an abuse and you're just sharpening the knife for them. So, you know, this is the fourth contract negotiation since two tier was created and implemented. It's the third since GM's bailout. That means that could be a third of an opera workers career living with these major concessions that have happened. And at the same time the company General Motors is raking in $35 billion in profits over the past three years, while continuing to close plants. At this point, you know, you've been on strike for five weeks. If you can't win back what you've lost. Just, you know, a little over a decade ago now, what is it really going to take to come out of the hole that the way W's in. So Beth will start with you. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's not now than when when are we going to be in a better position where we have more workers we have more workers working around the clock you have 10 workers are able to completely exploit. And if we can't get their rights right now back, what's going to happen, they're going to threaten to go to another country where they can have more workers, they can exploit and people are worried about that now and with Fontana just closed down. That's the, I believe it was the CCA site out last. So people are worried well we don't take this abuse and maybe the abuse will be worse later and that that's a very dark mindset to have about your employer, like he said it, when is the abuse going to stop and we don't stop it now when are we. And what about you Jesse. I mean, that's that's a hard question because um, I agree with her when she says if not now when and we know that we're shifting into an electrical vehicle and autonomous vehicle market so the profits aren't going to be there in four years from now and when it is time to you know go over a new contract and we go we get pulled out on strike we don't have that in the back of our and you know in the back of our media and we don't have that argument that they're a multi billion dollar corporation. At least we don't foresee that we're going to have that. So it's really challenging. And one of the biggest issues is investments and one of the biggest issues is, you know the blueprint of the corporation and my biggest fear and that is, you know, under law under the NLR be unfortunately, although I don't personally agree with it. The negotiation of plants in the blueprint of the company is all permissible things inside of negotiation so you can't be on strike for that. So, if I were going to answer the if not now when it would be if we do accept this contract as a membership, I hope that this mobilizes the membership to realize that the laws are hurting us too. And we're going to do about that in a political realm so that next time we have a lot more power and we can stay out on strike thing for things like investments and the blueprint of the corporation. That's that would be my only thing is that we do need to get more political backing behind us in order to make us stronger because right now we don't have a lot and we're kind of stuck all the time when we're trying to do something. And that's alarming, you know that's very that's a scary place to be in. Yes, please. Well, number one is, I'm not so sure that I think GM is going to be less profitable profitable when more of its fleet is electric cars. I can't foresee GM, making the electric cars cheaper just because they're cheaper to build. So, I, I do think it could lead to fewer workers but I'm not sure it's going to lead to lower profit. The interesting is the idea of public opinion and how public opinion, at least here in Michigan, you guys can tell me how it is in other parts of the country has has been favorable towards the workers and I think that's partly because of the heuristic positions that you've taken, but my experience in general, I think again over 40 years of covering these things for labor notes is that people like people who are fighting for themselves. People tend to be on the side of you when you stand up for yourself, rather than, you know, just being the poor victim. So, we saw that for example in the UPS strike in 1997 UPS workers are very well paid they were better well paid than auto workers at that time. And yet people back them, because they were saying that one of the goals of their strike was to create more full time jobs. I think it would have been great if the UAW had, had directed its demand somewhat more towards the public and talks about how we, we need a green future and how are we going to deal with that question. But I also wanted to say though that it is tough. I think you were getting at Chris that if not now when now is a very good time but it's also, it hasn't been a good time for some decades ever since so many non union auto plants have opened up in this country. Now we have come all the, I think every single one, yes, every single one of the factories that are owned by German companies or Japanese companies or Korean companies are non union. And the, the share of the big three of our market. As more and more people buy toyotas and the MW's and all the other cars that are made non union. Those plants are using lots of temps if they call them that or contract workers or third party supplied workers. And are, you know, their, their labor costs. I don't think the difference is as large as you read in the newspapers but they are able to keep their labor costs down because of that. So I think that for the UAW to really regain its power. It's going to have to organize those plants in the south. The union, they took a little step forward on that with the strike by showing here is somebody that's willing to fight for you. Not somebody as was the policy at Volkswagen the UAW literally said, joined the union so the union can cooperate with management. It's a huge job, not saying it would be easy, but I think the union is going to have to be transformed so that it is capable of going out and organizing all those people in the non union factory, if it's going to maintain its power. Yeah, that's absolutely right. You know, so I'm from Chattanooga, Tennessee, where Volkswagen is located and where the UAW said to unsuccessful organizing drives and follow both of those closely. And I can tell you that in both of those drives. One of the talking points that was used to defeat the union was that workers they were paid better than the starting wage of a second tier worker. One of the big three. So, as far as second tier existed it was used as a bludgeon not only against creating division in the workplace of the big three but also as a deterrent against getting workers to organize and pointing out the UAW actually doesn't have power and isn't capable of raising wages to the industry. So I'm also interested though in this question about product allocation. Obviously, like one of the biggest blows that came out of this agreement was that there were multiple plans that that the auto workers are going to lose their jobs they're not permanently those communities are going to be hit extremely hard by it. And in the place where they have saved work it's through creating batteries for electric vehicles and those are in agreements that are not in the master agreement. Isn't that an effect creating a new tier of worker. Isn't that an effect just furthering this problem of creating more divisions in the UAW and thinking about how to you have to like start from scratch. Every time that there's a new plan or work or work is allocated to one of these locations. So Jesse, do you have thoughts on that. Yeah, right when you know they were in the press conference after they agreed to make this our tentative agreement that question was asked about the allocation of work and possibly the new battery plant that was publicized in a couple of different news outlets and our spokesperson he said like it's not in this agreement and he made that very clear it's not in this agreement well if it's not in this agreement what agreement is it in. And I think the answer to that would be that it's in a subsystem LLC agreement that is currently being made. And as we know a subsystem LLC is just General Motors own third party company it's a way to make a third party company where they get both sides of the profits. That's terrible because like you said now we're talking about even another fourth tier fifth tier whatever you want to consider an LLC a subsystem group. And, and my biggest fear in this contract is although this does make it where you know possibly thousands of temps could get hired in the next four years if everything goes smoothly and everything goes right. Is that the last couple thousand of General Motors employees that are ever going to be hired again in America, because everything else would come under a subsystem LLC. Good. Yeah, thank you for reminding me Jesse about the subsystem that makes nine tears that I can count. Bethany do you have any thoughts on this as well. Sorry about that. Yeah, I think they're really the best. The best weapon that GM can hand the union is one that uses itself, and the one that it likes itself so we have a lot of our committee men and our presidents who are going to fight for more jobs for people but at the same time while they're fighting for them and like, okay, we'll give our tents healthcare the time we'll give them some paid time off. You're really just solidifying those temp statuses to where you can't keep people in those sectors instead of just getting rid of it entirely. So, on that on the question of the battery plan in Ohio Chris. I read that it's been talked about the starting wage there being $17 and that that's one reason that they didn't want to put it in the contract. So, Edward clan asked when the contract is ratified are only the temps with three years becoming full time employees in the beginning of 2020. And is there any kind of a limit on the temps that they can bring in in the future before they hire some of the ones that are already working there as temps. So Jesse I think you already addressed this earlier a little bit but do you want to go ahead and answer it as well. Yeah, so under the proposed plan right now. The only temps that would be hired throughout 2020 are the temps that currently have three years of consecutive service with the corporation and are classified and this is really big to our classified as full time temporary employees. So that would exclude if your class fight is a flex temp, or a part time temp. Um, so it would be accordance with what you're classified with and how long of continued service you have if you've reached three years, then you would go into this 2020 progression plan where you would be picked up in 2020. Once 2021 hits, then you only need two years of continuous service. And one of those years can be as a part time and one of those years has to be as a full time. So whatever you were classified under your plan, then, and then from there, it would be 2021 it would follow that program. So far as how many temps can be hired while you know these are all these programs are happening. That's where you're leaving all the power into the national parties hands because this contract would allow them to have full control over the percentage of temps at your site, what they're being used for, and if there's a plan on hiring them. So folks know, I interviewed Tim standard who's the president of UAW local 1853 in Spring Hill, Tennessee, which is the largest general motors facility in the country. And he was at the GM National Council meeting. And according to the company's estimates they believe that up to 2000 temps will be converted to permanent employees in 2020, which is a pretty substantial gain right of people that are coming on the permanent and I'm sure they'll be very grateful that. So, other questions that are that are coming in here is if a temp has been working well over 40 hours a week 50 to 60 do we have any sense of whether or not that that will count towards the amount of time that they're accruing for their years or is it straight calendar time of employment. Yeah, so I think that this is an issue that we're having in Flint. In their local, their members are working anywhere from 40 to 60 hours a week but they're classified as flex temps. So this would actually exclude them and there was a big issue with that. So it's not about the hours worked it's about how they're classifying you and how much of time you have as far as continuous dates. Great. And then. So, can you want to explain the differences between the retirement that is being provided to first year versus second tier workers in this contract. Like pensions versus no pensions. Yes. So, so first year workers have a pension second tier have a 401k and are there contributions being made to either of those. So anyone that has a pension currently so um, you know, they fell into line where they currently have a pension I think it's anyone that was hired before 2007. They get a one time. $1,000 in that's into their 401k plan and then our 401k for anybody that was hired after that stays exactly the same. And that's where they match you in Bethany and your plant don't they have something called a flex temp. Can you explain what those are. Yeah, we currently have flex time. Well, now that we're on strike, we don't, but while we were working. Yeah, we had flex times who were hired in for different reasons. A lot of times some people will go on surgeries or vacations during the summer, especially your higher seniority employees. So they'll bring in flex temps to work a minimum and sometimes a maximum of 32 hours for that week. A lot of times, they'll just fill in for the weeks that people are on vacation or if we need them more on the weekend. So work them Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. They're not considered full time. They can only work eight hours per day, even if we're on mandatory 1011 hours shift. And recently over the summer, they're still considered flex temp, but they've been working. More than 40 hours a week. They're able to volunteer for higher hour. We have people working 70 hours a week. Staying over as much as possible, but they're still considered flex time because they were never moved to full temp status. Bethany, does this contract impact them in any way? Are they impacted by the conversion system that's set up? I believe that the flex times to be able to be hired in 2020 and 2021, you have to have so many years of service as a full temp. So they would have to, that path for them could be up to five years. And I believe that they actually, their wages are very different. Right now they come in at 15 something an hour and usually they'll get raises. But now they're coming in at a flat rate. I believe it's around $16, $17 an hour. And that doesn't change until they're hired in. So this comes in from Amy Bromson. So timing is important. Did the contract lay out the startup at the truck at Poletown? It would take at least a year to convert and tool up. Also, was there a timeframe for putting on apprentices? And in the 1990s, you know, GM one third of the promised apprentices were put on the last three months of the contract and many were laid off one month after the new contract. So I don't know if either either one of you has responses to that. I can talk a little bit. It is going to take about a year to retool Poletown that is correct. But as far as the apprenticeships go, this is a major gain inside of this current contract so that I really, really liked. This is on the good side of the list. We did negotiate for 400 new apprentices. And unlike the last previous contract, anybody that was skilled trades that was working on an assembly line and then went back to the tools would exclude the number of apprentices that we were allowed to have. So in this one, when they say 400 new apprentices, it's 400 new apprentices and that number is not going to be dwindled down by people that are on a production line and going back to their tools. So we will have to get that. And there's a new way to become an apprentice, which I think is fantastic. We're adopting forwarding Chrysler's version of an apprenticeship where you actually have to take four college classes and it's not done by an outside third party vendor anymore. So the four college classes would put you on what's considered a stark list. And as long as you get an 80% you can go into an engineering building a 75% or higher in your schooling would put you into a manufacturing building, and then it would go by seniority. So this is a cleaner way to get your apprentices, it's a, you know, better way to get your apprentices, the dropout rate of the apprenticeship goes down substantially when you make them do four years, or I mean four classes of college before they start their apprenticeship. So these are all really positive things in good language to have in this contract and I think it's important to recognize the good parts along with the bad parts when you're making decisions. Absolutely. So Angie Miller asked on Facebook, do the current temps who are made permanent follow the wage progression that's been set out for the second tier workers and the answer is yes to that. So they will be on the truncated four years that's on that. So, for folks who are who are watching interviews about what the voting process looks like so voting has to be finalized by Friday afternoon. Locals are working to determine what the process looks like in their own area so they're setting up explanation committees are having opportunities for people to come. And they have something called a white book, which is the actual version of the tentative agreement so it's the, it's the, the, the former version with cross through is a new language at it so you can actually see the changes that have happened. Those are made available they're also online I've seen them circulating in some places for folks. The votes are happening as we speak some we're voting today some are voting later this week people are trying to make their decision about this. So Jane, you know one last question if you kind of historically is it seems like you know so we're having a lot of conversations rightfully about temps and tears and product allocation, but it's been kind of shocking to see all of the things that it seems like the way W is lost that aren't even brought up at all this time around. I'm thinking for example like co like you brought up earlier. What are some of those things that are kind of missing from the current discussion that we would have to get back, thinking about you know for the future what would it look like for, for the auto workers to gain what they lost even just 20 years ago. Well, they'll never make up all the money that they lost by the concessions starting in 2007 but of course concessions actually started in 1979. Actually, Chris, I did hear these from people on the line they weren't part of the Union's official demands that they were putting forward, which as I mentioned were sort of vague, but people would said, what about our cola. What about getting pensions for the people in second tier. This was, you know, never on the table. Oh, there are things that have been gone so long I can hardly remember them anymore but people still remember. So, so people would say things like we should get back everything we gave up. Well, that was not on the table unfortunately. I'm sorry about that. So, I'm kind of wondering what your closing thoughts are you know you you stake out this position that you're voting against this contract. So to anybody who's watching this that's on the fence. What do you want them to leave this conversation with what do you want them to be thinking about as they're going in to think about how they want to build on this contract. I would say that look at the reason why we walked out we walked out for solidarity we walked out for equal pay for equal work. And if you think that this contract is going to bring that and by all means vote yes, but be educated and just remember that I mean almost everyone was a temp at some point and how how would you feel at this point, voting on the contract. I mean, you started this conversation on the fence saying you know you see some of the good gains that have been made in this contract. You also see some of its shortcomings has your mind shifted any at all like during this conversation. Are you are you still on the fence. I mean, this is all things that I've thought about is it's been great, I especially think Bethany because I love to hear you know people that are up on the line and you know exactly what she said is what what you went out there for so is the same feeling that you had when you walked on that line the first day and the things that you wanted to see and the things you wanted to win. You know, is this enough for you and that's a question that all of us are going to have to ask ourselves. So I would say that, you know, it's a it's a hard thing I don't think you ever walk into it and you feel great unless you've got every single thing that you wanted. Especially this time you're going to walk in there and you know as I walk into the voting booth I'm going to be thinking about the people that lost their jobs. I'm going to be thinking about the language of document 13 and the fact that you know they did promise this last time and it never came to fruition. And it is it all just depends on what did you want to see and how close is it to what you wanted to see. I think unfortunately for most members. Their expectations were really high and they were let down completely so it is, it's just like one of those things I don't even know yet I'm just going to try the hardest that I can to make a decision I think will impact. Um, you know, the standard of living in America, because that's what I walked out for Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, again, I just want to say I think it's absolutely incredible that 48,000 auto workers have been out on strike for five weeks in an offensive strike right now like just shielding or you know off like concessions actually making demands it's it's incredible to see I never would have. If you told me a year ago I wouldn't have thought it was coming so it's it's been just absolutely amazing. And so Jane I guess you know final thoughts from you. You know, thinking beyond this contract right auto workers are obviously in this for the long call this industry is volatile it's constantly changing in the way W is is struggling to to deal with the challenges of the corruption and the administration caucus which is largely operated as a one party state within the union to to squelch democracy and worker engagement in any substantive way. How can auto workers build on this strike in a way that can help to transform their union and then to help transfer the industry. Yes, I'd like to really encourage people to talk to each other this week. Talk to each other on the lines. Ask the informational meetings, don't be shy about asking questions and raising your points and encouraging people. If you agree with me, let's get together after this meeting and go meet in the coffee shop or the bar and let's talk some more. Use Facebook during the 2015 Chrysler negotiations they were the target company that time. The billions of Facebook groups created both nationally and locally, people made t shirts that said no more tears people made up their own leaflets that they use to take to their informational meetings and hang hand out to their fellow workers or inside the plant because they weren't actually on strike. When the contract came back that it was going to continue to tear indefinitely. That's when people started all this activity and they voted it down. So, if you think that's the right thing to do here that I would encourage GM workers just talk to each other and realize that you do have the power it. It's not a done deal until you say it's a done deal. Thank you very well said. So I want to thank everybody for participating in this webinar tonight again we had Beth burial, who's a second year materials handler at a parts warehouse near Flint Michigan, Jesse Kelly who's recording secretary of the GM U A W local 160 at the tech center and war in Michigan, and Jane slaughter who's the former labor notes editor covered the auto be for 40 years and was herself an auto worker general motors and Chrysler the 1970s. So I'm Chris Brooks staff writer organizer labor notes I really appreciate it. We host these webinars, pretty, pretty frequently. And we're going to continue to do so in the future so please look for our continued reporting on our website and we will actually have a version recorded version of this very soon. And Jane is holding up as you can see that our newest issue is a special issue on how to strike and when it's double the length of a normal issue. It's out you can buy in bulk on our website as well. So thank you everybody for joining us and good luck to all the auto workers who are really thinking through these challenging questions about how to revitalize our union, how to vote on this contract. We really appreciate the sacrifice that all of you have made not just for yourselves but for all workers in this country to really advance a broader vision of what it's going to take to win, which is to strike and to fight the boss and to make big demand so thank you for everything. Thank you for having us. Bye bye.