 Good afternoon, wherever you may be coming to us from. Welcome to another episode of the non-profit show. We're delighted to have two very special guests today. They're going to be talking to us about Project MAX. We're really, really excited to get this discussion. The intersections of DEI and sports, we have Matt Rubin, the CEO. You're not the CEO, you're the project director. Are you correct, Eric? Yes, executive director, managing director. Okay, awesome. A Project MAX. And then Eddie Johnson, NBA legend, number eight. I know that number, Eddie, because I mean, number eight. There's only one eight. That's right. That's right. So we're really excited to have these two gentlemen on today to talk with us about this fascinating topic. Before we drill down, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Non-profit Academy. Sherrit Ransom, the non-profit nerd. She has the day off. We want to make sure we thank and express our gratitude to all of our sponsors, Blumerang, American Non-profit Academy, your part-time controller, Bee Generous, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Non-profit Thought Leader, and the non-profit nerd. Gentlemen, yesterday was a huge day. We did our seventh hundredth episode of the non-profit show. Wow, congratulations. Thank you. Amazing. What a Herculean effort. It takes a team. I want to definitely give a shout out to our executive producer, Kevin Pace, who's been with us day in and day out as well. If you missed any of our episodes, we're now finishing up year three. You can find us on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, Vimeo. And this last year, all of our episodes have been put into podcast format. So wherever you like to consume your podcasts, queue us up, the non-profit show, and we will be with you. Okay, Max Rubin, Managing Director of Project Max, projectmax.club, welcome, sir. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. Congratulations on your seventh hundredth episode. And I'm very honored that we get to be 701. You are 701. It's a lot easier to say 701st than seventh hundredth. So yeah, you got a better day, I think. I want to also bring in Eddie Johnson, NBA legend, a broadcaster. Eddie, you and your family have been such a big part of our community here in Phoenix, Arizona. I wanna say thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the things that you've done. You've shown up. I'm on the board for the Center for the Study of Race and Democracy. I swear you come to all of our events and I'm really, really appreciative. So not only as a basketball fan, but as a community fan, I say thank you for joining us today and being such a big part of our community. Let's dig in and let's ask who was Max Nordow of Project Max? I mean, this is a great image. I gotta say. It's a great image and by looking at it, you could tell it's an older image. Max Nordow grew up in Eastern Europe. He was born in 1849, passed away in 1923. And he grew up as an observant Jew and kind of lost his way a little bit and became a lot less religious. And it was the rising anti-Semitism in Europe that kind of brought him back to his roots. He was a leader of the Zionist movement, which was the Jewish determination for our own homeland. Was very instrumental in developing the world's Zionist organization. But Max was a big believer that through organized sports, we could unite and show strength. He actually coined a term called muscular jewelry. Because if you think back to the ghettos, right? Jews were feeble and weak and they were herded into these ghettos. And he believed that through sport, we could begin to show the world again that Jews could be strong and powerful and competitive. And at the time, Jews were not allowed to play organized sports. I think one of the purposes of Project Max is we do fight anti-Semitism and racism and intolerance. And it's not that long ago that neither African-Americans or blacks in general and Jews were allowed to play organized sports. And by creating this, Max started developing the first gymnastics teams in Europe. Poland became a hotbed of Jewish sports organizations. It moved throughout and created the founding of the Maccabi World Union. I don't know if you've heard of the Maccabi Games, but they're actually the second largest sporting event in the world behind the Olympics. There are currently 500,000 members in 450 clubs in over 70 countries around the world. And you start to see Jews become prominent in basketball. A lot of people don't realize that many of the founding players in the NBA were Jewish players or boxing at one point developed into a sport with a lot of Jews in it. And so Max really helped build up not just the desire for a country like Israel to exist and to be able to self-determine our own fate, but that sport was an important part of it. And so we decided that we wanted to build upon Max's legacy as using sports for in a way self-determinates and strength to unify people that have been persecuted and discriminated against. Right. Eddie, I'm fascinated with this conversation because as an NBA legend and somebody who's come up through the NBA in a different time and seen such amazing changes and conversational changes, talk about racism and anti-Semitism that you've experienced as a professional athlete. Yeah, well, I grew up in the city of Chicago and I experienced racism back as a young man, just growing up, really not understanding it. When you're young, you don't see like that. You're taught it. And so for me, it was kind of thrown upon me and I got to see what my boundaries were growing up in the city of Chicago. Certain neighborhoods I could not go into, we were chased out. Just different things that were said to me. And so as I began to grow up as a teenager, I started to understand that I did, I had limitations thrust upon me. And my love of sport really balanced everything. And so for me, sport brought a lot of races together. And so now all of a sudden me growing up in the inner city of Chicago and just being around people for the most part that looked like me, all of a sudden, sports had me encountering all different races. And in doing that, I started to understand that we're all the same. And that the competition of sport, the sportsmanship and all of that kind of controlled us in our thinking. And I think that's the beautiful part about it. Like you could get somebody that could be racist that wants to play basketball, but the love of the game kind of takes him away from that and it forces him to understand about what other races deal with. He's got a black teammate, he's got a Jewish teammate. Now all of a sudden he's competing with these people right there in that locker room and ultimate goal is to win. And now you put your guard down and you start to understand them and become close to them. And that's why you go back to history, Jackie Robinson and what he had to deal with on down the line back in the NBA days, Bill Russell, what he had to deal with even in Boston and they were winning championships. And so for me, I think sports is the best unifier in regards to really forcing people to put their guard down and to understand people from a historic nature. And I think then they start to understand that anti-Semitism and racism is just not needed. So now you, let's go forward. You've had this literally legendary career. You're still a big part of the NBA family and the ethos and the changing nature and history of this. Now Project Max comes along. How did the two of you find one another and build this relationship that's still growing? How did that help? How did that work? But it goes back to obviously my NBA days, Eric was involved with the NBA in a number of capacities, but more from the financial aspect of it. And so we got to know each other then. And then obviously he told you when he moved to Phoenix, we became closer and then I trained his son. You know, his son was a young man loving the game of basketball. And so got to know him. And then it just grew from there. And the beautiful thing about it is what I always tell young people is you always meet and greet people, regardless of their race. You know, I get people from all races come up to me and they wanna hug me and hey Eddie and all of that. If I was short-winded with them, I just don't know who I just turned away. You know, and I think once you let that guard down to meet people, you finally start to really, you know, have friendships and friendships that last a long time. And so Eric has been tremendous for me in regards to just helping me with the knowledge of just the business world and the understanding that it's something past athletics. You know, and so that's been our connection and it's been great. Eric, over the trajectory of this discussion and all the things that are going on, I mean, go all the way back to Max to now, what are you seeing? Are you hopeful? Are you seeing more discussions like this that we're having today? Is it a new concept? Is it, where are we in this arc of the conversation? It's gonna seem like a weird answer. I'm hopeful, but I'm also frightened. Because it seems like one of these conversations where we take two steps forward and then we take a giant step, you know, backwards. And so, you know, Eddie mentioned some of the milestones of people like Jackie Robinson and Bill Russell and many others that have paved the way where Sandy co-facts for us, right? But then, unfortunately, you know, we have instances where anti-Semitism raises its ugly head, you know, including this year by some players right now. And, you know, I wanna bring this up because this is not just a message about, you know, African-Americans or Jews in the United States, but it was very sad to hear and see that after the French men's national team lost in the World Cup. I mean, it was one of the greatest soccer matches in the history of the world. There's always a winner, there's always a loser. And immediately after it, the French team was faced with an unbelievable amount of racial attacks because they lost the match. And so, you know, we actually mobilized several of our athletes in Israel to speak out. Against the racism that the men's friend soccer team suffered. And so, we are making progress. And I think one of the things that also is a differentiator of Project Max is part of the scary side is social media nowadays. How quickly things can magnify themselves. An athlete can say something or someone else could say something and it goes viral. What we're doing at Project Max is combining amazing athletes like Eddie and others that we have on our team with artificial intelligence technology so we can combat the bad racist antisemitic hate speech out there and try to push the good content out. So we have to fight this fight smarter than we have in the past. So I'm hopeful, but we can't rest on our laurels and think that this is gonna be an easy fight because unfortunately we see that it's an ongoing problem. You know, Eddie, I know that in the NBA and in other leagues, there is a history of the elders being able to speak truth to the youngins and some of that dynamic. Have you found throughout your career that that has become something that you were doing? I mean, you're involved so intrinsically with the Project Max ethos, do you find that there's a place for you to share your thoughts with other current players? Yeah, without a doubt. I'm very outspoken more privately because this is a, obviously this is a sensitive topic. And so you pick and choose and you want to get somebody that's gonna open their ears and listen. And for me, I was a history major in college is where I got my degree in. And I was taught that, you know, Eddie, before you start to really summarize something, you gotta read, you gotta learn your history first. You gotta ask questions, you know, you gotta get to know people. You can't like be led by somebody else. You have to go do it yourself. And I think we're at a point now, and Eric brought up social networking, we're at a point where we grab on to people we don't even know. Like, you know, we're listening to YouTube, we're listening to IG, we're grabbing on to, you know, ideologies and thoughts from people that we don't even know. We might see them as seniors, we might see them as great athletes, but do we really know them? And that's what I just try to encourage young people to do is just, you know, do your research first, find out about you first, you go read, you find periodicals that are out there, that's true. You get, you know, advice from people like Eric, and then you go ahead and you study and then you ask questions. And then you come up with your conclusion. But we're right now at a stage where people just grab on to these young kids out there and they're running with it and a lot of it is wrong. Right, right. It's such a fascinating time to see how messaging is changing right before our very eyes. And we shouldn't be wrestling with some of these ethics and concepts, but you're right. When we have these external communication pieces that just jam things up, it's really incumbent upon us to talk about it. And I really appreciate both of you coming onto the nonprofit show so that we can do that. I'm wondering, Eric, I've got to bounce back to you. We talk about this confluence of different people and different cultures and different ideologies. How hard is it for you to recruit people like Eddie Johnson into Project Max? You know what, you've just had your seven Huthers episode and Eddie mentioned how long we know each other. We're about to hit our 25th anniversary. Awesome, awesome. So when you know someone and you know their heart, right, you know who to go to. Eddie was the first athlete I went to and we built a team of like-minded people. It is also a little difficult, I think, because as you know, there's tremendous demands on their time. For the people that are playing, right, they have their team and their teammates, they have sponsors, they have their own nonprofits, they have lots of work. And so it's not that difficult once we get to them because I think people understand how important the topic is in combating these plagues and that if we don't address it, you know, Eddie mentioned my son, I know his children. I think we all want to leave the world a better place for our children and grandchildren. And I think, you know, the older and wiser we get, the easier it becomes to understand that it's in, that if we don't do something, it's not gonna change. We have to get invested in. Right, absolutely. Eddie, talk to us a little bit about how you have stayed in the ecosystem of the NBA and what, I kind of asked this question earlier on, but as you look back from your career and you look forward, are you hopeful? Are you seeing things that are, you know, indicating change? I mean, this last year has not been great for some of the things that have been going on off the court. How do you mitigate that with what you see going on and your hard work? Yeah, well, obviously I think we are, you know, changing, but it's an ever-ending fight, right? Because the ones that won't change, they're the ones on the other side trying to convince people not to give in. But I think for the most part, our young people are very smart. The one great thing about social networking is it gives you an opportunity to just go immediately to something and learn about it. Whereas in the past, we had to get in the car or get on the bus and go to the library, right? So, I mean, we didn't have that quick fix that we have. And I think that helps a lot of young people now because somebody says something to them, make it immediately go and find out. And for the most part, we have a lot of tremendous young people in this world. It's just a small percentage that continuously just want to make it bad because that's the shortcut to them, you know, getting riches. That's the shortcut to them having success on their end instead of going the right way. And I just try to tell athletes all the time, Julie, like, look, trust whoever you trust in, you have to go throw things off of them. And that's what I have done in my life. I've had people around me, like I had a dad that left my life at 12 years old. So for me, I've always had father figures in my life, so to speak, and people that I depended on. And believe it or not, I think I've had this conversation with Eric. Most of the men that guided me financially when I first got into the league were Jewish men. My lawyer is like my father figure, he's Jewish. My accountant, like a father figure, Jewish. And they led me. And you know what, one for them, I don't know if I'd have the kind of money I got now. And so, and I'm not saying other races didn't help me either. My brothers told me everybody, but I spread it myself around. Like I didn't limit myself. And everybody has a strength in them. And no one should be looked down as the negative. And I think that's the fight all of us are against right now. And we all created equal and stopped looking at us by faith and what race we are. We all out here running a race. And that's why I love the fact that Jewish sport is coming into play here. It's important that we understand more about Jewish sport as we will every race in regards to sport because it does bring us together. Absolutely. Well, just think about a little by little the diversity in pro sports. I mean, we have a Chinese national that became a major star in the NBA to French citizens, North Africans that are coming in. Certainly Eastern Europeans just in the NBA and it's an exciting time. But I think we still need to be vigilant about this conversation. Okay, Eddie, you brought up the M word. So I gotta ask the money word. How does Project Max build donors? And I asked you this off camera and I'll be very blunt. How do you get a white woman that looks like me to be interested in your work and donate and spread the word and help you with your mission, vision and values? Yeah, well, it's what I've done with all the nonprofits that I've been involved with since I decided to just put my head down and go for it. It started with me, with big brothers, big sisters. I had a program in Phoenix called Accept the Challenge where I would target at risk students at Carl Hayden High School and South Mountain High School and I spent a whole year with these kids just getting them really trained to focus on school and ward them along the way and now to helping hands for single moms, which I have raised a million dollars for single moms, sending them to college, making them a hero in their home. And I think the way you do it and how Project Max is gonna do it is you gotta touch the hearts of people. You know, you gotta touch their heart and just let them know that this is the right thing to do. This is a tremendous organization. This is a tremendous opportunity to make change. And that's what we're all about. And like I said, the majority of people that breathe in this world, they love change. They love the fact of helping people. And those are the ones we have to tap into. And look, we know the history of the Jewish race as we know the history of the African-American race. It has not been pretty. It's been a lot of people that have lost their lives to move forward, taking chances. And so when you touch the hearts of people, I think they open their hearts up and they open up their parking books. And that's been the case for me. And I'd like to add, Julia, because you asked about you, a couple of things. First of all, our first events have all revolved around high school students and having this conversation. And if you think about it, right, our children are getting involved in sport. And now maybe even at five years old with tea ball and basketball and soccer. And what hopefully we're seeing on the field or the court or the pitch is it doesn't matter if you're black or white. It doesn't matter if you're Jewish, Muslim or Christian. It doesn't matter what you are. You just wanna play sports. So to me, sport is the place that if you are a mother or a father and you wanna teach your children about inclusivity, that is where you do it. And I think the other thing that's important because, yes, Eddie and I've spoken a lot about racism towards the black community or antisemitism is racism, but that's not just what we're about. I mean, as you know, Asian American hate crimes is up. Our Muslim community is facing rising amounts of hatred and I think we all know like some of the lessons from the Holocaust, we can't be silent. They may not be coming for you today, but if you're quiet when they're coming for others, what do you expect is gonna happen? So we start young by bringing diverse athletes together so they can have this bond like Eddie did as he started developing other friendships, right? And then we make sure everyone knows that it's about all of us and that you need to stand up for others because unfortunately the time may come that you need to have defenders with you. And so I think that the message to everyone is start educating in young. I mean, it's a hard conversation to talk about racism and hatred, maybe to an eight-year-old, which is why we focus on high school students. We think that's the right starting point and then we continue. And I also think children look up to the athletes, right? They're their role models, they're their heroes. And if we can portray them and they're willing to portray themselves in a positive message, look at how you change it. So when you ask me, am I hopeful? Yeah, I'm hopeful because there are a lot of people that follow all of our athletes. And when they see the example, they want to be like them. And then I think you as a mother could be really proud because it's a hard conversation to have. And I think through sports, we are enabling parents to have that conversation. I love it. I think it's really been a cool thing to have this conversation, to know the type of work that you're doing. And I'm just thrilled that the two of you would come on and really share this concept in the trajectory of Project Max. Eric Rubin, managing director of Project Max. Check them out, projectmax.club. You can go onto their website and while we are so honored to get Eddie Johnson on today, there are a lot of other athletes that have joined in this march. And so you can learn about them and see what are the other types of things going on across this country. And Eddie Johnson, wow, for me, for a long time, Phoenix Suns fan, this has been such an honor. I wanna witness to the community that I see you do this work behind the scenes. And I know that you are involved in many, many things that you do not get credit for and it has had a phenomenal impact. So I say thank you as a community member in the great state of Arizona for all the work that you continue to do. So EddieJohnson8.com, check him out. You can find out where he's speaking, the different projects that he's working on. He has a book, public speaking, NBA radio, unless we forget that. So definitely check out EddieJohnson8.com. Gentlemen, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for having us. This was a pleasure. Thank you for the show and spreading the message about amazing nonprofits all over the world that are doing great things. We need more shows like this because we need more positivity and change. So thank you and congratulations again. Eric, we don't need more shows like this. Don't bring competition. We need you on twice today. How about that? Oh, Lord. That'll make you better. That'll make you work harder, Julia. There you go. Holy cow. I don't know, man. I would look like I'm 80. You got 700 shows already. So you did just pile up 700 more. 700 more, baby. We got that. We got that. Well, hey, again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Sheret Ransom, the nonprofit nerd. My trusty co-host will be back tomorrow. Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors, most who've been with us since day one. Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, Be Generous, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader and the nonprofit nerd. Wow, gentlemen, you've inspired me today to go out and do things better in my life and I hope that our viewers that have watched us live listen to us on podcast or re-engaged with us in our archives feel the same. I bet they do. Thank you very much. Hey, everybody, we like to end each episode of the nonprofit show. We want to remind our viewers, our listeners, our guests, our sponsors and ourselves to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone. Thank you, gentlemen.