 Good morning and welcome back to I-254 in the morning. My name is Feetan Soeli. It's Wednesday and if it's Wednesday it's WCW. On this segment we celebrate the strength of a woman. You can engage us on all our social media platforms at I-254 channel, engage me at Feetan Soeli. And so marriage requires a lot of hard work and resilience. And the hard work that you just have to put in for a marriage to work, it's not just but a work in the park. You require the resilience and prayer, just being a prayerful woman and knowing that marriage is not just build on love alone but God too. And so today in studio we have a strong woman, a beautiful woman who is here to talk about marriage and child loss. Her name is Julia Wambui. Welcome to the studios this morning. Thank you, thank you so much and thank you for hosting me. All right, it's a pleasure having you. Yes. So tell us who is Julia Wambui or More? Our mother and I have three beautiful children, one passed on. And I'm married to a pastor, George Omore Kabasele. And we are under Kenyansamblies of God. And I'm also a presenter. We have EBN TV. I also encourage couples in Penzi Halisi. We have it on YouTube also. And I also have a group called Precious Women. And it's a group for mothers who have lost their children. I went through that. So I love encouraging women and also going through the work with them and cancelling them also. And that is me. Yes. So how did, okay, how did you meet your husband? Well, you know, we used to date before and I left to go to Dubai and he was here. And we started again communicating. So when I came back, you know, we were friends. Actually, I always tell people it's always good to marry your friend because he was actually my good friend. And we used to do like going for fellowship together and sad things. But when I came back now, it's the time now we got like serious. We got engaged and we got married. We've been married for 17 years. And him being aloo and I kikuyu, we really thank God for that. Because now, you know, like so many people like during, you know, like election, people like, you know, like going against. Like we see, you know, like we become so tribal. And it's about a person, you know, like we don't usually do that. We have different cultures. And we embrace our culture because God created culture with the Papas. And I really thank God because, you know, like laws are different. We are so different. And we really like even bringing up our children, like they know their Kenyans. They are not this, they are not this. And you know, even when they grow up, they will truly know. And even as election is near, I'm really urging that people like we don't go to, you know, like we don't we don't go through like the tribal thing. We should look a person like a person, not like, you know, like being tribal like you. Because someone will say that a marriage between a kikuyu and luo can't just work. Yeah. But no, no, no, no. But you know, that's what I'm saying. It's about people and people, they're those who don't work. And our marriage is basically on, you know, like God's foundation. Yeah, it's basically on God's foundation. It's all about God. And you know, when you put God first, everything will, it's marriage. We have conflicts. We have so many challenges that we go through. But when our focus is based on God. And our foundation is based on God. Then it will become easier because we shall be able to sit down and deal with what we are going through. And when we have conflicts, again, I told you, I got married to a friend. We'll sit down and discuss. And maybe if that is not the right time, we shall get the right time to discuss about it. Yes. So how did you two meet? We met, you know, he used to live, I used to live in Buruburu. He used to live in Karubanga. So we used to meet, like, I used to have a friend in school when I was in Pomfo. So I used to, he's actually the neighbor. We used to go to school together. So every time I went to pick her, we go to school together, he was there. And you know, that time he was, he had these dreads. He used to look so funny and I couldn't want to even to come near him because he was actually so, he was looking so strange at that time. So, and you know, actually before I got saved, I was not, I was not a good person. So, and again, he used to, we also used to have those, you know, like we are different. But I got, I mean, I grew up in a pastor's house. So it was, our foundation was also different. I was just naughty and rebellious. You were a pastor's daughter but you are naughty. I was so naughty, so rebellious, doing drinking, smoking. But I thank God because I really met, I really met Christ through the way and I really thank God for that because it was a journey. I usually look back and say, I think I could have, I could have been dead honestly but because of his grace and mercy, I thank God for it. And that's how we met actually because- So you met him when he was a pastor already? No, he was not. We were youth, at that time we were youth. And I didn't want to get married to a pastor actually. So, but that time we were going to different churches. I was going to Jubilee, JCC, now it's in Parklands but before it used to be in Tintin. So, and he was in different, he was in redeemed gospel church. So we were actually different youth growing out differently. So, and when we met we had one fellowship, a common fellowship in their area. So that and also in my area. So that's how we met. Yes, yes. So, okay, you were this naughty child. How did you turn to a point where now you decided you wanted to get sent? It was my, more of my parents also praying for me. And also you know we had like this family fellowship. My dad made sure that we had a family fellowship. Like we really had, whether you were drunk or not, you had to have your day for leading and praying. And I remember one time I was drunk like I'm told to read the verse. I pray, I'm like God, can you even hear these prayers? And I started just coming back to my senses like I'm drinking. What is it? You know like life I have to sit. You know like at times you have to have a meeting with yourself and you tell yourself you know what it's not even worth. Julia what you're doing drinking it's you're just wasting your time. And I couldn't have peace all the time fighting with parents. You're out, you're coming the following day. We didn't even have peace. So and I decided to change you know like by just old God you know what and you know God is so merciful and so loving. So I decided just to give my life to Christ because he is so loving and you know when he forgives he forgives. It's not like human beings when God forgives he's so merciful. He forgives yes. So moving on you went through child loss in your marriage. Tell us how was it? Wow you know one thing I usually tell couples that's getting you know having a child it's a miracle by itself. Carrying a child through town is also a miracle by itself. No at times we take life for granted so many times but when I lost my child it was 208 and it was it's such a painful experience you go through but you know people think because you know it's a child you know you'll just get another one and it's so easy you know. Yeah and when you get another one he replaces the other one. Yes and you can never you I usually tell people you can never replace we had named our child he was called Pendo Sulu he was a boy I have two girls he was a boy and you can never do that because that was your child and you know the trauma you go through and the stress you go through it's you really need God because it's so so painful. You cannot even you know explain the pain you go through like a mother because you know you had plans you went shopping you had you know like you prepared a bed for your child you know there's ecologically you so you prepare everything bought the clothes and everything and then now it's a boy you know I had a girl so I was waiting for a boy so I was so excited you know then all of a sudden we I I give birth the child has complication the heart was so big I was told he had a heart expansion he was taken to ICU it was so quick and then you know that time I have CS many to and then it's July it's so cold you know like that time I usually tell people it's it's God because you can easily lose it you know like depression is so real that if you don't if you don't take care of yourself it can really affect you because you know I had another child I had my husband there and you know he was also going through that and you know many people think that men don't mone and men also mone differently they mone and you know now like when even people come to to to comfort and and to mone with you they usually console the mother so much they live the husband and the husband is also mone so again I usually tell people it's honestly a miracle to give birth it's a miracle and we should be grateful we should not take that for granted because children are are a gift you know and if if a child dies it's okay but again you have to move you know I was I did that because I did canceling because of that also because I really needed somebody to talk to and at that time when I was going through that I was so lonely you know at times you're so angry you know like you're angry with the doctors you're angry with also yourself imagining maybe if you had mone mone you could have taken you know you could have gone to another better hospital and you have so many things to start even bargaining you know so there are stages of grief and if you don't if you overcome them you will be you will set yourself free and you'll be able to move on and I thank God because I managed to move on with with counselors who worked with me through and I had to go through therapy just to heal because it was such a traumatizing moment for me also so and that's why I formed the group pressures women for other women who go through that because at times you know people take that lightly that you'll get another child that you will replace that child so quickly and it can never happen that child was had you know you had a connection with the child the one who carried the child for nine months so you had that connection with the baby so at times it's it's not twice telling people that that you'll get another one it's okay they'll get but don't compare them with the one they've lost because that journey is totally so different yes so that's why I formed the group and it's called pressures women and I usually work with with the women through like you know we understand I understand what they are going through and I can be able also to talk to them and encourage them and counsel them we walk through the journey together until maybe they come again to to get another child wow yes and so getting another child after losing a child how does it feel do you have that fear oh yes that this one will also die I remember I remember when when I went to the I was not feeling well and you know I had just purpose that I will not get another child so when I went to to the doctor and you know I had this test and I was told I was pregnant I actually screamed like I was crying and the doctors didn't even know what was happening because I was so emotional and I remembered what I went through the trauma I went through again this I'm pregnant again I didn't even know whether I'll even make it it's a time you know it's it's a time that I was so scared I really didn't even know what to do but I thank God because of of of people who were there my sisters my mother in law my mother also they stood with me in prayers because it was not easy because I had this you know like everything going on in my mind you know I lost this child again I'm pregnant what will happen with this other child and it was it was not easy but that's why I the group I formed it's because I knew what I was going through and now I can be able to walk with other women at least to tell them it will be okay I went through that I was so scared also when I got pregnant and you know at times we you know like when when you're when you're mourning I usually tell people it's okay to mourn but don't stay there for long it's okay to to grieve it's okay to be sad it's okay to be lonely but you have to move on yes and you have to but you have to move on that you have to take another step but if you stay there for long it will also affect you you know you need that self-care within even yourself true yes so let's talk about marriage and you said you're married to Aluo and I want to know how how do you people handle finance in your marriage because you know we kikuyus we save we save a lot actually uh what I usually do what we usually do is you know like close the love spending so much and you know they can go overboard yes but we sit down and then we we come together with what we have with our money we come together and so we say you know like budget you know he never my husband never knew to do that like um budgeting and and doing that he never used to do that so like we I started doing that you know like at home the bible says our man is the one who builds our home so I started talking to her like let us do this together if we have a project let us do this together and then when we have something else then we can spend but at least we bring our money together you know many couples are not willing to share they are not willing to be open yes because I was just getting there to ask what is your perception on you know these you know like my husband he usually gives me like you know like he has he tells me you know that I work this money I get that is mine so but he also gives me and the good thing is that we sit down and share like we we don't have at this is your money this is when he is budgeting he will you will come and you know we write down this is what we do the house rent the school fees the what we sit down and do so when we have extra he tells me this is the extra we are having so what can we do about it so it becomes even easy when you sit together and you open you know when you not open that is when now people are becoming even unfaithful and doing things behind people's back but you know when you sit and I tell you the foundation is Christ you just sit down you say and when you don't have money and that's what I usually tell couples because at times you tend to tell your husband to do something for you and yet you don't even know the amount your husband is getting and he ends up being so stressed and even being so depressed because he doesn't even he doesn't you don't even know as a wife how much your husband is is is is earning and you end up even lying to each other living lives that you're not even comfortable with because you want even to please people outside and yet you are even struggling so at times it's always good to be honest just share the amount you are having just share with your husband what you are getting so that you can be able to manage your home well so we are nearing elections and you find that there are people affiliated to different parties different politicians so while they are married to laws they already started fringing like how will it be suppose there is post election violence what will happen to our marriage what can you tell them um has I started saying because our marriage is based on God parties are they come and go and and that's why people so much are are getting based on on the tribal and politicals you know like parties and if we really base you know like if if if or maybe a makikuyu and I want to uh to elect someone I will not look basically so much on the tribal basis I will see what the person is bringing but I think we have this perspective that we are so tribal that you want to elect our person even when the person is not doing what he is supposed to do so I think tribalism we should it's us who should deal with it first so that we can change the nation if I start like now I makikuyu and he's a look many people even don't know you know like I'm Julio Morre so people will just assume ma ma luo they don't know so when I tell them I'm kikuyu oh so you are kikuyu like you know so at times the tribal thing has really caught up with everyone that we are so tribal and it's also even getting into churches that we also want to elect someone who is a kikuyu a masai or whatever you know and it's it's not even working but when we base our when we base our our our what do you call when we base everything to to even god and ask for wisdom which we shall be able to overcome the tribalism because it's really affecting everyone it's even in children yeah speaking of tribalism in children do you think that it's taught in our homes or it is something that it's learnt over time oh yes it is taught in our home like you know like we had my my children like in school you know like we have we have different names for them our first born is Sifanya Lawi and our other daughter is Hawi Uzima like people wonder you which tribe are you and they say they are Kenyans and you know we actually had a problem because teachers came and you know they were telling us no they have to have a tribe but to tell them they are Kenyans they are really Kenyans and which we have to do that we are Kenyans no matter what and you know the love that crisis has really built you know the love love is so important and you know when we love each other you shall not when i love my neighbor i will not uh see the neighbor has another tribe i will just love them and that is not the way we are bringing our children just to know their Kenyans and their blessed to be in Kenya they are either lures they are neither kikuyu but they are happy to be Kenyans and if they want to learn the language it's still okay they can learn kikuyu they can learn Swahili they can learn English they can learn lures which is okay they will choose and they are doing that they are learning so we don't have to force them but you you know you are you you are no no no we are all Kenyans and we should be proud that we are Kenyans and we really have a blessed nation so we should really stand and we live tribalism because at this time the way things are happening people are gaining this and we easily fight each other and we've been living together imagine i waking up because my neighbor is from another tribe i come i kill the person you can imagine the way we've lived together for long that only when when uh elections are near that is the time we start now knowing that people are now we start knowing that you are kikuyu you are luo you are luya that is so wrong that is so wrong we should really love each other and we should not fight if them they are fighting let us stay together because we are all Kenyans we are our brother's keeper let us look out for each other and let us love each other true yes so there is somewhere i spoke of the love of christ so what is the role of prayer in marriage my goodness you know we can never oh god we really need prayers in everything that we do we need prayers because at times things are so hard and the only person you can run to is god because he has the solution of everything right now you know like people are just waking up and just deciding to kill each other and imagine if you're praying together as a family god will even come through and give you peace and you know prayers will really help a lot because you will you will have a peace that is so different even when you're struggling even when you're going through the conflicts and challenges you will be able to overcome because prayer is the key to everything and you may pray today the prayers will help you another day it will really come through for you but you know so many people so many people are not are not committing god in their marriage they are living god aside and then when things are so bad they start like now the last option god now come come come and help us in our marriage and it is not good because we God has to be the center of our marriage and if the foundation is Christ even when you are shaken you will be able to stand because Christ is the center of your marriage and prayers are so important because when you don't pray you will have like you know like hell in that house because you will not be able to understand each other you will really like faced conflicts like you know like you really want to face you know like with your own strength so like but when you have Christ you you'll even sit down and start even like thinking now is it really worth if I kill my partner is it really worth if I kill my children is it really worth if if I walk out or but when you basically have God the center and you get even time to pray God will come through for you I usually say there's nothing which is too hard for the Lord the everything is possible with him even the things that we see so hard marriages can work yeah marriages can work and if we are even those people who are going through so much in their marriage I could add them to trust in the Lord and to talk to someone just talk to someone you know at times we are we have so many things that we are holding and so many grudges so many and we don't want to talk to someone please get someone that you can talk to just tell them what you are going through so that you can you can see together and and get help because many times people are going through depression and it's really affecting people even in marriage and they're hiding so much they're hiding the pain they're hiding the bitterness and they're hiding so you know the anger everything so when it it just bursts you know like like a balloon you know when it burst everything now becomes you know haywire like they start now killing and doing so many things but when you are talking to someone you'll you know like ladies so much they talk to people so even men I could add them get someone you can talk to so that at least if situation which are there they can be so and if somebody comes to talk to please don't add them just listen to them just be there for them yeah because no you know no one is perfect so and no marriage is perfect so it's just the two people I usually say two imperfect people coming together so let us let the two imperfect people come together and solve their issues because none is perfect so speaking of trauma that is build over time you find that there is someone who has grown up seeing the father beating the mother or the mother beating the father like it's a childhood trauma that he has never found a space to overcome it how can such a person just find victory over the childhood trauma we usually say in in counseling it's always good to go also to therapy and and also God is there but you know in therapy we shall be able to see what happened in your past like we shall sit down and maybe if your if your dad was abusive to the mum we can we can start handling that and again you know like you it's you now it's not them it's their marriage but first you take care of yourself self-care is very important you first take care of yourself and know that you're so worthy and you are very important person so it's you first to begin the healing you know healing process starts with you so that you can become a better person than your parents that was their marriage and again now it's your it's your life now you're starting not them it's your life it was a painful experience but we have to overcome that slowly by slowly yeah but now speaking of such people who have this childhood trauma and just talking to people we got these kind of spouses who are so self-centered that everything is all about him or her it's me and if it's not me it's me how can one deal with a self-centered spouse you know like when when a spouse is so self-centered it started from somewhere I usually believe that started from somewhere there's always a route you know like when you go through a route there's somewhere that it came from and at times people do willingly and at times people do unknowingly like honestly they don't know so at times it's good to be you know like to seek help like to sit with someone and especially if it's the you know like you said the man if it's the wife and the wife notices there is a time that he could sit down with the husband appropriate time no when when he's angry or no just get a time that you can sit with the person and try to talk to the person and tell him politely and slowly that you know this is what you're doing and I think I'm not happy you know there's a way that you can talk to to to your spouse and you know like and I really don't like the way you're doing the things that you're doing and again seeking you know like when when when when someone starts doing that it means he saw something you know like he saw parents also doing that it's a it's a generation thing at times and at times it's just a person like just a person so that we can know the route you know like where is it coming from and if he can agree you know men most men they don't you know they ego in them they don't like seeking help so but when they seek help they will avoid so many things they will be able to talk to someone they will be able even to go for prayers like the way you said prayers help and God changes things there's nothing that God cannot change and that's when you agree you know we need help you can also do that prayers also change everything wow yes so we've seen uh so many cases where a spouse uh wakes up one morning and decides to kill the other or rather kill himself kill the kids which are without even notifying the partner of what's happening in their marriage do you think that depression is just so real oh yes oh yes depression is so real and it's really affecting and even in in Kenya right now we we are we are in a bad state you know but all things can be possible and that's why I'm saying please talk talk talk talk to someone you know like many people are hiding so many things in in their heart and they're not willing to shout out and we see that also men like they're not talking they're not willing to go and share with someone you know when you talk it's also therapy you get you get a relive in talking please share with someone you know like and you know most of the people you know the thing that depression is uh it's just like any other disease which can be dealt with which can be cured you know it's not that it's a life sentence but now we we are judging those people so much like even in church thinking that you know they are possessed or they are they are doing this but when you handle them without judging them it will be easier for us so I could urge people please don't judge like if you go out there please don't judge talk to that person they need help they need healing you know when when a man is going through that when even a lady wakes up kill the spouse or a man wakes up kill the children it's something that he's been going through it's something that he's been hiding and depression is so real it's affecting everyone our families it's affecting each and every one of us so it's always good to to talk go find someone that you can talk to get someone that who can help you they are counselors they are psychologists out there please get a person that you can share with and if somebody comes to you please don't laugh at them don't judge them don't look down on them please let them you know go and even seek you know talk to someone also who can help them because we see that we are also the one who are who who are creating like you know we are we are we are creating that a lot like somebody comes to you he's depressed or she's depressed instead of you helping the person you go running and telling everyone judging them looking down on them and we are not even helping we are making even the situation to be worse so please listen and seek help so fighting for your marriage you're saying of going down on your knees and just praying and normally it's usually a woman who is doing most of the time you find that there are always women who are going down on their knees and just praying for this husband that I change his ways that this infidelity that is so much rooted into him may come out of him and then you just fight and fight and fight and you see that things are not just changing in your perspective do you think that a woman can change a man a woman I don't think a woman can change a man because you know it's a man who will be able to change himself what a woman can do is to pray as you said in Proverbs 14 verse 1 it says a wise woman builds her own house but a foolish one destroyed by his own hands so again it's us women who are wise we shall go down to our knees and pray for them we can talk to them maybe to change but we cannot we cannot have that perspective of changing a man it's him now to make the decision of change we cannot change it is so hard because he has to be willing to change step number one and us our work is to pray to pray for them and also to guide them you know like just talking to them politely this is what you're doing it is not right so it's up to you the choice is always up to you you can never be forced and even god can never force you to change it's you now your decision saying I come to you god I am a sinner forgive me it's always your decision somebody else cannot input that decision so it's always up to you to choose think I'm being unfaithful am I willing to change no am I willing to not to change it's the decision is always yours and you can because if even if we say we'll change for how long and the person has the person is not willing to change so the person has to be willing to change and if the person is willing to change then that is easier we pray we guide each other we stand in prayers we you know but him changing I don't think it's really hard it's really so hard unless maybe those who listen but for me it's just maybe guiding and praying because at times you can tell him what is doing is wrong and if he's willing to change then he can change he can decide to change but if he doesn't want to change you cannot force a person and you know they're not babies that you can move them around you change you go there no if a person wants to be unfaithful whether you are there or not he will just do it but when he's willing and he's saying you know what I choose not to do this then that's okay wow so you have prayed some people go to an extend you have done everything for your marriage and it is not just working at what point do you reach and say I'm done and I'm no longer fighting for this marriage at what point do you reach and say walking out is the only solution left you know when you know like physical physical abuse that one is that one we usually tell even in church I'm a pastor so that one we usually tell people just separate because now if he's physically abusing you and beating you then that is not good so that one at least you can separate so that he can also go get help and you can also seek psychological help because it's also a trauma that emotionally abuse you know like when a person is just beating you but other things which you think can be solved like being unfaithful like you can sit down and seek a counselor or even the clergy the pastors and if he's not willing to change then you can decide we we cannot decide for the couple it's them again to decide but physically when somebody is coming and abusing you and doing all this and killing each other that is not has now had you know we hate divorce but again we say because of somebody's um like you know life is important years you can like you know like stay aside separate for some time and then maybe when the person change then you can get together if he doesn't you just move on wow so marriage is not just all about love what are some of these kills that one should equip him or herself before getting into marriage to have this perfect marriage okay there's no perfect marriage you know when you say you're encouraging the youth perfectly it's commitment you know like you just choose it's commitment you know at times you know like love love is there yes but now you have to commit to each other the vows now become real in time of health and sickness in what now those vows start working you know because it's not all about like love it's not about commitment and there has a wife there has a husband you supposed to be there for your children commit you know taking care of this has the head and the helper we take our part you know because when we say that the perfect people will think oh let me run to this thing that is so perfect there are challenges there and there are conflicts we have to go through tests of life and if if your if your best has I say the foundation is not based on Christ you'll be able to to drift you know just to run because now you're not the foundation is not on Christ but when you are the foundation is in Christ it will be easier for you to deal with challenges it will be easier for you to deal with conflicts it will be easier for you to deal with other things because now Christ is there but when he is not there again there are people who manage without God and they're doing well you know but again the commitment commit I am a Christian so my foundation is Christ if your foundation is something else based on that if it's going to work based on that but to me my foundation is Christ he is you know he is the founder of my marriage and if Christ is not there honestly it cannot work things are happening so many things are happening challenges you go today in work it's not there so what will you do you know so when your best your marriage is based on Christ he will give you peace he will give you comfort even when you're not seeing other things we have the future we have hope you know yes wow so you were nominated for Zuri awards talk about it yeah the Zuri awards it was the public service nominee because of the precious women and I was nominated I did win so yeah but I thank God it was a great opening because of the precious women group and at least now I have I have women that I go I talk to and I usually visit them I usually I used to go before in hospitals but because of covid now we have a group on WhatsApp so we usually talk through that yes so I would wish that you look into that camera and then you just give your parting short advice to someone who is struggling in marriage or rather lost a child some at some point in his or her life if you're there and if you've lost a child I just want to tell you that God cares for you and don't give up and if you're out there and you've lost a child I want to tell you don't give up God is always there and seek help because at times you can be going through the grief period and and you can even end up in depression please talk to someone who can help you and you will you will be okay you'll be okay don't ever give up don't ever give up and if you're there you're also struggling in marriage let Christ be the founder of your marriage because when Christ is the founder of your marriage you will go for don't ever give up in everything that you're doing that is something that I always say to myself that when you don't give up you'll always have hope and God cares for you He has great plans for your life so if if you're there and and you need someone to talk to there are people who are there they are counselors who are there and they are willing to to talk to you so don't give up thank you so much it's been a good conversation and we would wish to have you more here so that you can keep talking because people are struggling in marriage and it's just not something that we go away tomorrow or today so it was a pleasure having you and thank you for coming wow it's been a good conversation and I'm sure that you've learnt one or two things and now have you ever lost direction when you're walking along the way in town or whatever and you just feel like you need someone to talk to and then you get to someone who gives you direction and it's just giving you so many landmarks that you just feel so lost even it even worsens the situation what am I trying to say they're in life try to find some landmarks within yourself when you feel like you're losing direction when you're going through difficult times because at times people may just lead you out of the way so much that you find yourself so lost even before you realize where you were before so find your landmarks in yourself like just going to church prayer knowing your purpose on earth at times it helps much than seeking people's opinion to determine your next cause of action thank you for watching kaisu is up next with girl stock don't touch that dial will be right