 So hello from OER 17 to the future. We have three talks scheduled now and the first one will be by Timothy Reid. He's from UNED Spain and he will talk about moonlight, MOOC on inclusion, but I won't give this talk. He will so please give a warm welcome to Timothy Reid. Thank you very much and thank you very much for resisting the coffee break to be here for the start. Okay so as the title says I'm going to talk about the Moonlight Project which is an Erasmus Plus project we started at the end of last year particularly focusing on the social inclusion and employability of refugees. You've got the acronym there and the project reference and taking part in this project we've got partners from seven universities, six European universities and a UK one as well and really UNED for those of you who don't know the university we've been around for almost 50 years now we've got a long history of working with people with disabilities and prisoners so it seems like a natural extension to move into this area and really the the data about the refugee situation at least the last information I have from 2015 made it seem like a particular area that was worthy of our of our attention and I think of some of the data I could present you the idea that there's 24 people a minute who are being forced to move away from their home for reasons of natural disasters or war made it something that was really needed a problem that needed to be solved or should we say a process that needed to be attended to who don't want to use the word problem and I think if we pay a particular attention to the aspect of education then this information is even more poignant for example that refugee children are five times more likely to be out of formal schooling than their standard can't count to parts 91% of children are in primary education in comparison to only 50% of refugees that's 84% of adolescents in secondary education in comparison to 22% of refugees 34% of human universities and only 1% of refugees so in total we're talking somewhere in the region of about 300 million youth not in any form of education which really seems to be a great waste of a very productive part of their lives and there was a very poignant article published in The Guardian sometime ago which I think says this really quite well and it's not just a question that refugees being made victims because they're forced to move away from their home it's a question of impotence in a way that are not allowed to take part in the autonomous and proactive way in their in taking charge of their life which in a way can I think it would happen to any of us if all of a sudden we were made to move away from this room and be forced to take part in a process which we weren't actually wasn't actually under our control we start to feel alienated from that and one of the natural conclusions of that could in fact be radicalisation so it's something that we really need to take seriously. I'll give you a practical example in the Dada refugee camp in Kenya somewhere in the region of 350,000 Somali refugees there. Now there's probably a reasonable representation a cross section of their society in that particular camp but the sad irony there is that none of them are actually allowed to work or take part in any constructive way of giving back to the surrounding area which is really a bit of a shame really it's not enabling them to become self-sufficient or look after themselves and I don't think we have to go that far I don't want to give any name any countries but in the European social context for example even the countries that are receiving refugees aren't necessarily allowing them to become proactive in looking after their own futures. One thing is the data the other thing is what the actual people themselves say and the interesting thing I was talking to some refugees in the mobile learning week conference in Paris a couple of weeks ago is that they're fully aware that they need to get the education but it's terribly difficult for them to be able to do this. I mean there's quite some howling stories of younger people who've moved away from their families they've traveled several thousand kilometers to get to a new country just to be able to have access to basic education something which we almost take for granted here. So what can we what can we try and do to help the situation and I think that's something interesting was said by Ruff Gruner the UNHCR representative for France in this in this conference and that is that the majority more than 90% of refugees that are in cities or close to cities have access to or covered by 2G or 3G networks. So if we could somehow combine this with mobile technology and open education resources then maybe just maybe we might be able to find some way of helping them to to take an active control of their own learning process and I think we've seen these sorts of pictures on the in the media and on the newspapers that the mobile devices are really quite an important resource for our refugees and I'll show a tool they can use in many different aspects of their life and education and therefore can become part of this of this solution but unfortunately the situations are very difficult if it were just so easy as putting some open educational resources which could be deployed on a flexible way on mobile devices then this has already be done to some extent why don't we have the solution already available and the answer that question although it's partially open and I'll leave it for you to to think about is that there are problems at all different kinds of levels I mean political problems for example this is what I was mentioning before that a lot of our refugees aren't able to access the resources they required in fact in one particular country that I I don't want to name that even if the refugees manage to travel the large distances and get there they're not allowed to have access to the educational resources even if they are open until they have permission to live there you know what I'm talking about and it's catch 22 you need to you need to have the basic language skills to be able to live and work you can't live and work until you have got permission to live there and go around in a circle and go nowhere and I think this fits in quite nicely to some of the other things that we've heard in the the conference yesterday the idea that the way a lot of the mobile open social learning is actually set up it's typically done for Western Europeans and it doesn't take into account the way that people from a more Middle Eastern many of perspective and background would actually want to work with these resources and that's actually something that I think we need to take into account especially when we're trying to work on mobile pedagogy to include these social and cultural aspects okay now as I said before a lot of projects have actually been undertaken the results are quite quite promising not just for the fortunate few refugees living in city areas I've seen examples of mobile network kits which are small boxes which can run off a car battery and extend a Wi-Fi over a refugee camp some stuff's been doing on that but what we're really trying to do in this project is to build upon the these sorts of projects and attack the the questions in a in a different a more top-down and bottom-up way so if I can now just basically talk about what we're trying to do in the in the project the first thing is that there are lots of opportunities there's lots of good work being done with the massive open online courses there's the Kirin University for example in Germany which I think is a really good example companies like Coursera have announced a little while ago they're starting new initiatives specifically targeting the refugees but the difficulty is in the first place getting the information to the refugees which is analogous to the situation that some years ago when I used to research into mobile language learning or online language learning if you go into Google for example you search for second language resources there's millions of them on there all sorts of different text recordings videos interactive activities so the question if is if all this content and activities there why don't people speak the language any better and the problem is it really does need to be structured you need to have a top-down pedagogic model and the people need to know how to engage in an active way with these resources that's one of the questions that's something else we want to look into and the other thing is I said before is the political problems there are political problems and when we're trying to attack these from a bottom-up perspective in the sense of going to the universities isn't talking to them because a lot of European universities do offer certification for their MOOCs but the problem is with this certification is that you have to pay for it so you can negotiate you can go along and say look we've got this problem here the refugees need our help will you offer this sort of certification for free and in a lot of cases you can do that but in the best-case scenario you can get a particular university to certify its own MOOC content to enable refugee students to do their own studies that's just not enough we need cross-institution cross-country scenarios and that's a lot harder and you can say okay we do it from a top-down perspective we're going to talk to politicians and try and negotiate it that way well I've done that as well and that's not necessarily successful back in 2012 when we were getting the MOOC initiatives running in Spain I went to try to speak to the Minister of Education to apply this as a general way of providing professional training for people and obviously one doesn't get to speak to the minister you speak to a sub-secretary of state but anyway it's somewhere in the political hierarchy and you have this conversation and they see that it seems like a quite a good idea we've got a high percentage of unembodied people we've got the technology we've got the MOOCs why don't we give them basic skill training which will make them more employable and then when we come out the crisis they'll be very ready to actually take the jobs unfortunately nothing came out of it it's very very difficult it's like moving really large stones when you're trying to push them along a beach for example so the approach we're trying in this project which is different is trying to make use of the fact that in a way politics is a bit like nuclear physics what you really need to get is critical mass if you haven't got critical mass you don't get the chain reaction and that's what we're trying to do now we're trying to contact with lots of networks with lots of groups getting them all moving in the same direction and we've got sufficient voices to make the complaints heard it's the time to then try and produce political change which is in a way is why I'm here to talk to you about this this project today at the same time we're trying to scaffold the learning and the MOOCs to make them deploy better on mobile devices specifically for audiences who are not Western Europeans and also try and do some cost-benefit analysis to make the whole issue of interest to the different institutions and players in this in this question we're specifically focusing on language learning and business skills I think obviously if you don't dominate a language at least maybe a high b1 b2 possibly more in a country you really got very little chance of proper social integration you probably know more about this than I do so I think that's something that's a particular goal and why are we focusing on business as opposed to science or other kinds of skills well one of the problems I've mentioned before is that if people are not being taken seriously by they are and being offered job if you've got business acumen you can start your own spin-off you can start your own small businesses crowd funding and that way offer a solution to your own people and that's the sorts of things we're trying to work we've been working in language MOOCs for some considerable times it seems like a natural extension in this particular area and also making use of of CLIL there's a lot of CLIL it's quite a popular way of teaching in languages so what we're thinking about this is is it possible to actually scaffold CLIL for refugees in a MOOC context and make it a particularly effective means or vehicle for them to learn where are we at the moment we're we before we start talking and we start preaching we want to listen we want to understand and there's an incredibly large number of refugee support groups and networks people who've been working for for decades or more with these refugees and we really think that we need to talk to these people's we're getting out in this particular month in the the timing of the project we're talking to them we're having interviews we want to listen to them to find out what they think about is the correct way to put all these pieces together in the most effective way and we're hoping to actually channel our initiative via these groups to give them the power if you like and not try and work directly with the the refugees because then we just become another cog in the in the wheel so that's basically what they wanted to say about the project it's more of a show and tell than come along with results results because we started just a little time ago if there's anyone was interested in taking part in the project and who would like to just kept be kept in form then please ask now afterwards thank you very much I come to you the microphone because we have a live stream and the recording so your question will be only understandable if you put it into the microphone thank you very much I I was looking forward to this talk since I saw the program I'm doing my PhD at the moment and I'm looking at personal learning environments and how in a way and I do think it is a solution for refugee education although I think that the scaffolding is key they and there is another thing I can't say it would be too much to say I am a refugee because I left my country because of very bad conditions and very terrible situation and there is a whole emotional aspect that really comes into the learning and I think it's quite difficult for them who has they have really a very terrible situation so I think I would love to take part in the project I am a math teacher and I also think that that's another skill that would be very just in a very low level but it would be so just to say my admiration for the project and I would love to in a way do what I ever can either it is through my PhD and maybe addressing things that I maybe don't know now and I could address that and then offering my time the little I have but I just think it's marvelous really very very very beautiful project much and we're more than happy to include you in the collaboration and in the project it's a very frustrating situation and one thing is to be bombarded with all the news from the television and the social media where that happens so often you get to a certain position where you're desensitized in a way it's when you're actually in the in their conferences and the workshops and the refugee supports group you actually talk to the people and you have faces and names and and stories and it becomes puts a hairs on your arms makes them stand up in a way so thank you very much we'll definitely thank you there I agree that was really interesting and brilliant project you're doing can you just clarify again you told us the aims but what exactly is the project doing are you working with MOOC providers to get them to make their MOOCs more accessible and more sort of targeted towards that audience or are you working with universities that might later recognize credits obtained from the MOOCs or what's your actual focus of activity it has more than one particular objective I mean it would make sense for us to start to prepare MOOCs for refugees because there really is quite a wonderful offer I think what we're really focusing in is trying to join the dots if you way if you like because on the one hand we need to talk to the universities to persuade them that this is a group of people who should have a special attention so that if they come along I mean for example there are not everyone we're assuming that they don't some of them don't have basic education and that that's also the most of the case but some people are doing already have degrees they all have qualifications and their professionals but they've been displaced the second you use your social context your qualifications are no longer recognized and you talk to people and if they're really lucky they're working in the service industry and they might be chartered engineers or economists and it's so frustrating for them they're terribly grateful because they've got nothing better so it's trying to address all the particular questions and as I said before the experience we've had from trying to do this just with MOOCs back in 2012 when it was getting off the ground is that you can't just try and get changed a particular level if you just got from a bottom up level for example you only address the teachers for example then the teachers might be on board but their institutions might not be on board and even if they are the local government won't be and you've got the national governments and the European government and I think it is the case in in some of the you know these CNHCR for example they make a lot of recommendations and sometimes it's speaking to deaf people the message doesn't really get through so I think you need to find the appropriate approach for the different levels and I think that's what we're trying to do I think it's why you got the funding I think if we put forward a project at the end of 2016 do you say oh no we're gonna do MOOCs for refugees we have never got the funding in a million years. Tina Papathoma from the Open University thank you for your talk it was very interesting and I just wanted to say that if I can help with in with your next step with the interviews I come from Greece originally and I will be there in the summer so and I have some connections with some youth camps and I know people who work there so if I could help with this and interview some people because I'm doing qualitative research as well in MOOCs but I have interviewed educators really I would be happy to help we will find the way with the language and all that I can contact you later. Thank you very much I know that some very they do some very interesting things in Greece and give us some wonderful support in fact I've got a friend who's a psychologist and as a as voluntary work she's working in the camps there trying to cancel the people but it's it's really hard because of course when you're when you're talking one-on-one you're saying isn't this really difficult really tough trying to cancel people because how can you really make me feel better about the circumstances when the circumstances really are very very difficult it's like saying you know when you're in a in a lake up to neck with water full of crocodiles it's hard to admire the view I mean the the whole social context in which they're in is really really difficult even something as basic as the camps I mean I've seen for example I've been inside of one of these refugee tents and you look at you think oh that's not quite so bad and but you kind of your role-playing being there maybe a week or two weeks but some people are in these tents for 20 years I mean some children born live and die their entire life's there so I mean it's really it's really difficult so thank you very much well Timothy wait the next talk will be by Simon Horrocks and he's from the Open University in Wales and we know that there was quite some activities going on in the last years and if you have read the title of this talk you're probably as curious as I am if there's still hope or all hope is lost for OER and we'll see the presentation do you need some more minutes or is it it's online but we about this is anyone else feeling cold in here yes so can we change that yes Martin can okay sorry for the slight delay border good morning I'm not going to test you on your knowledge of the Welsh language I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear but I did use a couple of Welsh words at the beginning of this presentation so I think I ought to just spend a second to explain for those of you that haven't used Google translate to understand what Khunri Khunri agorad means it is just simply is Wales open so agorad is the Welsh word for open and you can see it here represented on a lovely piece of Welsh slate which is actually a stand which is in the Open University in Wales office and I think that this piece of slate is actually quite an interesting symbol in lots of ways not least for containing the word agorad open because it starts to kind of help us to tell a story and what I really want to do today is to try and tell you a story about open education in a national setting the national setting of Wales I realised that in some ways that requires people to have an understanding of that nation and some of the aspects of it but I'm not going to give you too much of a potted history but when I was putting the talk together I did actually think how do you begin to tell a story on a national level and I think that I'm very conscious of some of the things that maha was saying in her keynote yesterday about the power of who has the if you like the the the power the authority the the position the privilege to tell stories and I think that that's something which I'm very mindful of as I go through I'm also mindful of my own academic background because I used to be a lecturer in the past life in film studies and I used to teach what is called rather ludicrously world cinema which basically means anything other than Hollywood and mainstream European cinema my main interests were in Southeast Asian cinema and one of the things I used to teach was Japanese cinema and there's a very famous film by the famous Japanese director Kira Kurosawa called Rashomon and does anybody know the film Rashomon and the thing that people most know about Rashomon is the fact that it is actually a story that's told from four different perspectives and that the story is mediated very much from the individual perspective of the story teller and you know I'm very conscious that you know the story I'm telling you today is very much from my perspective and in fact you know I've seen at least one of the person in the audience who may have a different story to tell in relation to Wales's history and recently in relation to open education and I may ask you a question Tom if that's all right as we go on foot later into the conversation but when we're thinking about how you tell a national story particularly a story about national education I think that there are there are lots of places you can start I think you do need an understanding of the actual nation itself and I think that the slate it's not particularly well represented on the picture does give you a bit of a clue to what's really significant I think about the story of open education in Wales because it tells a story of a country which used to have a very proud history in terms of industrial culture and you know was recognized around the world for some of the things that came out of Wales slate being one of them and but it's also a story in more recent times in the 20th century of deindustrialization and and of a very very significant change in the the country and indeed the economy and the need if you like for education to help to support a different future for the people of Wales but that's just one way of telling a story and I think that when we tell a story about national education in Wales one of the things that we absolutely have to focus on are institutions and institutions in different forms play a vital role in the open education story in Wales and I'm going to mention some of these more specifically in terms of their role in a second but I'll just quickly give you an idea of why they're significant so the Welsh government within the United Kingdom is one of the governments that has devolved responsibility for education and that is a responsibility that stretches right across the educational spectrum and from from preschool through to post compulsory and therefore tertiary higher education it also has its own funding council which is Hefku the higher education funding council for Wales which in theory is what we describe as an arms-length body that is responsible for the strategic development and management and previously much more directly the funding of the higher education system universities Wales is if you'd like the umbrella body for the actual higher education institutions themselves and the last one that I'm going to mention and this really will test your Welsh the colleague come right kind of life though and the National Welsh College and is a body that was set up directly by the Welsh government to support and the promotion development and sustainable culture of Welsh medium higher education so higher education through the actual language of Welsh so these are some of the kind of key institutions but institutions are only one part of the story and I think that it's what those institutions do and I think documents that they produce often also tell us a significant part of this story and as far as the story of Welsh education is concerned I think we can almost point very specifically to this one moment which is the remit letter which is produced by the Welsh government actually by the an individual a minister of the Welsh government minister for education and skills which is giving the funding council its kind of direction its dear as to what the most important priorities are for the coming year and I think it is important to know that it is done on a yearly basis because actually this is part of the story that from year to year what is the story that is told in the remit letter in terms of the priorities can change quite dramatically but when we look to the remit letter for 2012-13 which was produced around this time of the year usually was sort of March April of 2012 we can see that the minister the then minister who I'll come to in a second was somebody who was actively encouraging the funding council and through the funding council the sector to take a concerted view when it came to the development of open education and digital resources more broadly and at this point you can see that the story was that in his opinion at least the Welsh higher education sector was not necessarily moving forward as much as it might do and I do though want to briefly introduce the two main protagonists that I'm going to talk about in more detail now in the story on the left hand side you have the actual minister for education and skills like Andrews who wrote that letter and late in has been a very kind of key figure in the story of Welsh higher education for a number of different reasons but where this is concerned I think it's fair to say that you know he was the person who in the government had a very personal and specific interest in the potential for digital and online education and for open education specifically within that but he did not have if you like the opportunity to do anything so he could instruct he could he could encourage and and he could influence but the person ultimately I think who had probably the most direct role in terms of trying to put this into practice for the sector was the then Deputy Vice-Chancellor of the University of South Wales is actually now Vice-Chancellor in Scotland Clive Mulholland because Clive was actually chair then of a group of the Pro Vice-Chancellors for learning and teaching in the Welsh higher education sector and they were the institutions if you like who actually had the the opportunity to to put some of this into practice so if we look at the actual developments themselves what's quite interesting is that there were a number of different tracks that were being taken at the same time so on the one hand although the the minister had instructed Hefku and then through through Hefku the institutions to take responsibility for this development and in in one respect I think it could be described that he decided that this was too important and something that he wanted to personally guide and therefore he established what was known as the online digital working group and that led later in 2014 to a publication of a very significant report and government sponsored report but at the same time we had the Welsh Open Education Declaration of Intent which was something that came from the institutions and not from the government now and this is something which ultimately I think demonstrates that although you may have a number of different constituencies in the Welsh higher education sector working towards the same purpose there isn't necessarily the coherence and the coordination that you're required to have genuinely kind of strategic change just that you can see the images of the two main outputs of this so on the one hand you had the big report from the government on the other hand you had a project called OER Wales Cymru and there were other projects and this is where a colleague in the room Tom Bartlett comes into the story because the funding council were also responsible for funding open education development in other ways and there was a project in mid and north Wales which Tom has managed called CADAN which has actually had a very significant kind of impact on certain institutions in giving them the opportunity and the capacity to develop open education and particularly open educational resources and sorry I've jumped ahead too quickly there I'm conscious that I need to bring this to a bit of a close and I titled the story Wales Open the Door to open education but hasn't walked through I think that's maybe a little bit harsh in some ways I think that the work of Tom and other colleagues means that maybe we put one foot through the door but what we haven't done I think is in any way established a sustainable and long-term kind of commitment to open educational culture and I think that's for a number of reasons and I think it shows you in a sense somehow how fragile some of these developments can be one of the biggest kind of shifts I think for us was the fact that we had a change in minister just as the momentum was building in Wales and the minister that followed and if I go back to the previous slide there is a kind of ironic sort of timing that in March of 2014 we have the publication of this very substantial report saying what the opportunities for open education and online education might be but at the same time we have the next iteration of the remit letter from the government which doesn't mention open education at all and this is because that remit letter was written by a new minister who didn't have the same shared interest in in that field ironically it did make a comeback the year afterwards and I think it made a this is where I suppose if you would talk about this as a story I'm a sort of I have a minor credit in the story myself because I was actually in a conversation with the chief civil servant for higher education in Wales at a meeting a month before the remit letter was written in 2015 and I mentioned that OER 15 was about to happen in in Wales and then surprise surprise a small reference appeared to it in the remit letter a month later but I suppose what I'm just trying to suggest here is that although there have been some very sort of positive early developments and some kind of good intentions both on part of the government and the institutions we haven't actually managed to achieve anything that you would might call a firm foundation I'm conscious them I'm kind of out of time so I'm just going to finish off with one point which is that really I think that there is still very significant potential for open education on a national basis and particularly within the context of the higher education context in Wales and I think that this probably rests in two main areas for me which are things that ironically were covered in the original declaration of intent and I think sometimes we forget we don't choose to look back at you know the beginning of the story to remind ourselves of the things which are actually important so these two areas which are effectively the what you might call the widening access agenda and the Welsh medium agenda are two things which are absolute constants in the higher education system in Wales and they are absolute constants in terms of the government priorities that you see in the remit letter and for different reasons I think open education can play a very significant part in supporting both of those and now if we can actually almost turn things around and rather than put the focus on open education and online as a thing in itself but actually as something that can support these other initiatives I think there's a very real opportunity for Wales to to embed and to build on the good work that was done two three years ago but otherwise I think there is a real danger that we might actually lose the momentum completely and I think that that means that the story probably will end up with the door closing and on open education now I don't want to end on a negative note I genuinely believe that there is opportunity there and I think that you know I'd be interested to hear if people have any ideas on how you know on an international basis I'm looking at law and in particular you might be able to sort of really develop that sustainable commitment to and kind of infrastructure for open education. Thank you very much. So I hate to be the bad guy as a timekeeper maybe we can do just one short question and who am I to this side of that? Half a lifetime. That was really good to hear. I personally didn't say anything about Wales when I spoke about policy developments in the UK because I wasn't up to speed and I think it's it's a very welcome reminder of just how much good work did in Wales I mean it went on in Wales. Your last question I can't answer it how do we actually have a sustainable impact we've we failed in Scotland to get the year of the government and for quite a long time we were quite envious of what you were managing to do in Wales because you were actually reaching that government engagement but I think maybe you know if there's one point that we can sort of hold on to in all this is that there is still so much going on and it's going on in our universities and our public institutions and I think the work that's going on in the National Library of Wales around the Wikimedians and residents has been really inspiring and I don't know if we can maybe use that as a platform to try and engage government again so I think you know like Scotland we might not have got the policy at government level we might not have the year of ministers but but there's still so much going on and I think it's it's really important that we keep telling these stories and we keep remembering where they started so thank you very much it's a good question or good commentary to end this I'm really really sorry but I apologize for going over yeah thanks we have to go on thanks again this is Nikolai van der Furt and he has tackled the question of OER government as a wicked problem and I learned preparing this session that the wicked problem is really a technical term and it's interesting when it comes to OER governance which he has some experiences in health care and I think he has two talks one now and one the slot after this so if you're interested you can do the second part with him today very much looking forward to your talk Nikolai it's yours so implementing governance for open education in health care can we see that as a wicked problem I am a senior consultant at university of Nijmegen at the Rappat University Medical Center I'm also a member of the Dutch special interest group of open education and I'm a PhD researcher also connected to the GoGM network I can really recommend it if you are doing a PhD or know someone but it could place to get a lot of impulses and what is the topic research is government open education ecosystems in health care so what I'm presenting today is a part of that we are doing a project back home called Kokura content creation and application where we are implementing OER and we try to see it as a wicked problem so I will tell something about how we can see that how we can move forward from old ways of blueprint thinking to more complex adaptive systems and what the meaning is for governance governance of open and the politics of open so first a little bit about the project and I'm not going into that very deeply in the next session in room six I will go into details and results but what we are doing is that we have been curating OER's open course where MOOCs open textbooks we found 14,000 resources online and the question is are they all good can we use them in the curriculum so we had a summer with four students and they try to find out which ones met all the criteria is the level okay can be used in the curriculum can it be translated culturally and so on and we ended up with 2600 almost 2700 resources that met the criteria so there's a lot of non usable OER's out there and for teachers it is really nice not to have to you know go into the jungle and find out themselves what is really usable the purpose is that we will implement it in the curriculum and creating open educational practices with that and now we have narrowed down the list so much that we have between 30 and 150 resources per special medical specialism like cardiology it's easier for teachers to go into that and of course we have many many different teachers with different needs and this is a long-term project it's also connected to curriculum reform so we have a lot of things going on and teachers are really loaded with work and really need to be helped to make it easier for them to apply it and this is happening in our institution but we're also going national and with all the university medical centers in our country eight of them we are trying to set up a national structure for that and also national governance structure so blueprint thinking or a wicked problem what is a wicked problem a wicked problem is a way to describe a problem that is well so many so many facets so many points of view so many players in the field so many ways of viewing it that it is quite difficult to solve it in a blueprint way of thinking and there are often many dependencies and if you pull one string then something else happening elsewhere in the project so how to manage that one of more visual people there are lots of stakeholders that perhaps cannot agree so easily and it requires very complex way of judgment there are no clear stopping rules of when is the project finished there's no real fixed objective there are many alternatives but we have to discover what kind of alternatives are and usually there are quite strong ethical moral and political dimensions connected to it so it's quite yeah quite difficult to find out what is the best way to go you have to really let it emerge so if you want to move from the old way of thinking of solving projects which we are all used to I mean when you want to have a project for that you have to write the proposal and you have to fill in all the details you have to say exactly what you're going to do before you start and so on and so on in in real life projects do not behave like that and that's the problem we want to tackle so this is the reductionist way of viewing the blueprint thinking way and you can see it as a finite problem because it's finished it's ready problem solved okay we move on but the wicked problem also called sticky issues sometimes or complex adaptive for problems can be seen as infinite games they go on and on and on and they have some characteristics so let's walk through it blueprint has clear boundaries wicked problems have very unclear boundaries open boundaries or fussy boundaries blueprint thinking there's usually a beginning and an end when you have the deliverables you already project finished but in wicked problems it's more a continuum it's not really finished at one point of time the rules for the game in blueprint thinking are known and they are constant you know what to do you know what the rules are but in wicked problems the rules can change and this is really twisting your mind when you don't think of it in blueprint thinking you have known players who have a team with with the members in it you know what you have to do you even even know who your opponents are but in a wicked problem everybody is playing and new players can join the field anytime there's a single measure of success if you have your deliverables product product product is finished but in a wicked problem yeah success can have many forms in blueprint thinking you have to provide expertise but in a wicked problem you have to ask questions in an acquired inquiry mode and you have to keep focused on staying asking questions and being curious in blueprint thinking you have to give the right answer there's one solution that's the best but in wicked problems you have to find a fix that fits the purpose is to win to conquer the problem in a blueprint thinking but in a wicked problem purpose is to keep playing and the worst thing you can do is leave the game a step out you have to go on and go on and blueprint thinking is quite predictable and linear you have your project phases and you know what to do in each phase but in wicked problems it is quite unpredictable what will happen and sometimes patterns emerge and you have to find out ways to encourage people that successful patterns can be also an indication for a successful project stakeholders have clear are clear who they are and the behave usually like they are expected like a team member in blueprint thinking but in wicked problems with multiple stakeholders that don't give to the rules and they have different needs blueprint thinking leadership will mean to run the project in a way that you meet all the objectives and within budget within time you live for all the deliverables but in wicked problems leadership is really the capacity to help and empower other people so wicked problem is not linear but every step is known but it's really a chain of small events and you have to find out which are the best and a small event can have large consequences so from a study effect we are moving from quite static frame to more learning organization which is also for a part self-organizing and one step back and because we are all trained to do it in the way of blueprint thinking and our organization is also demand it's quite difficult to step into the wicked problem way of thinking and I have some academic freedom you could say in my PhD to do something else but my boss doesn't really like it and they want really results in a blueprint way so the inquiry based way is turning judgment into curiosity disagreement into shared exploration defensiveness into self-reflection assumptions into questions and this is a totally different attitude than we have usually and I think this more open approach fits very well to the values of the open movement and you have heard them over and over again at this conference equity sharing empowerment diversity inclusion social justice I think these are the things that really matter and that we have to find ways to connect with it more deeply so what about governance when you look back at the history of the open education movement our focus has been mainly on business models and on policy but governance is a much broader concept than only that and I regret to say it but governance is quite common to speak about in business but not so common to speak about in education and I think we should do that more that's something we have to really learn and then the question is are the ways of governance that we are used to for closed education are they applicable to open education so there are a lot of things connected to governance governance for education not for business for education so of course there are and these are all quite political things in a way you have to find a way to attach to your mission vision and strategy you have to find ways to find right kind of management and leadership there are also always policies and procedures you have to put in place but which ones there are business models of course products and services there are legal and regulatory frames especially in health care this is quite strong and there's also the question of monitoring and oversight how do you do that especially in a more open environment so from old to new thinking in governance will also mean that the governance of closed educational systems which we are used to will have to change a bit we are used to a centralized and hierarchical way of thinking one organization internally focused a closed way of centralized administration most of our educational institutions are closed institutions business models are selling a project or selling educational services with government money the ownership is with the employer and we have many examples of it but what is then governance for open well perhaps it's a bit more democratic perhaps it's still a one organization but more outwardly focused perhaps it is still centralized but more open and also the traditional institution can have more open trades with more or perhaps it is an open educational institution products are partly free or totally free services also and there's more a cooperative way of working together ownership usually we use creative commons and it's not IP that is accounting and well we have many examples of that already but my question is do we have to move on one step more because this is still you know moving forward from a closed educational institution to something that has open trades but what is open governance and I think we really have to find ways to think about that as a community because this is a new way of seeing things new way of thinking and this is a quite experimental table you could say it's not ready at all but I think we have to move forward in the way of finding ways of also decentralized ways of managing organizations in a more democratic way but shared decision-making and also in our case patients included students included stakeholders included. Policy will be more towards the networked organization cooperatively with an external focus and I think also we should move towards more co-creation with shared tasks in a network of institutions. Co-creation, co-financing and also find ways for perhaps different models of governance that are not existing yet. So moving into treating our projects more into like they are a wicked problem creates a lot of space for the viewpoints of the open movement but it's quite difficult to do it because we are not used to it and our institutions really ask from us to behave in the old way and I think we have to make a lot of political choices to move forward. Thank you. Questions, comments, yes? Thank you for inspiring a contribution. I'm sorry I was following only part of your speech but I'm wondering how certification could be part of this transition let's say because I'm actually very I agree a lot with your I think your is your opinion your your thinking of competencies and representation. So political way of making decision and competence-based decision are at this moment crucial they are interacting very deeply and we have to study this. Now going back to the institutions universities and how do they could they be supported by a system of credentials of open for instance open badges open credentials open certification. Do you think there is a place in it to make this transition or am I wrong am I out of your way? Very good question thank you. I agree this is a very important issue and I think we are only at the beginning of finding out what we can do different. I know there are initiatives worldwide to certification based on a more open basis and usually it is a matter of connecting institutions together finding a way how can we trust each other that your education is also good for my students and the other way around. The European level it's very important. Yeah and one of the things I see happening now is that several institutions make commitment to the consortium of institutions saying well we know that you deliver quality we know that you are as good as we are so we can trust that if one of our students comes to you and is doing a course we can give points for it. I think that's one of the ways to do that but I think we have to really find out about other ways as well. Hi. Just saying that I would like to address. Thanks. I think that was a really good presentation I think it's got a lot to offer for the future of open education. I can see it can be attention as well for those of us in the technological community who are used to thinking in blueprint ideas. It's a bit transgressive in that respect but I think that's exactly what's needed at the moment. My only suggestion would be that one of the ways forward is to engage outside the academy and the academies as well with the civic space which I think has got to be increasingly important in Europe and I've been reading a little bit about developments in Barcelona about ideas about the digital commons and taking back public ownership so I think the crossover between what you're talking about and open education and the reclaiming of civic space is a very fertile area to build these kind of arrangements. Thanks. Point taken, yes. I think it's a very important one also and seeing education not as stopping when you leave university but it's going on also in the professional life and connecting with professional bodies also in governance for education. You're thinking one of the ways to open it up. Nicolai, the way you've presented that shift you've mainly focused on the sort of governance within an institution not governance of the sector so you saw boundary judgments in systems terms you know you seem to have focused on the institutional rather than the sector or what might be a geographical nation or whatever because I wonder within this you're ascribing a purpose to the governance implicitly but not explicitly so is the purpose of the governance to ensure that the educational processes are appropriate or is it also or is it just to ensure that the educational outcomes are appropriate because they can see that depending on the level of governance and boundary you want to draw on it you might have a different purpose and of course those are the things which might be intentioned because if the looking for governance across say within a country within a region there are different considerations from that institutional focus. You are very right about that. When I connected to our project that we are doing we have eight university medical centers with their own rules, their own set of rules, we have comply with that but on a national level we are working together with the Dutch Association of Medical Education and they have kind of adopted this project and want to play a role also in the national building of governance which is on a totally different level so we are we are working multi-level in a way and it's quite difficult to find out what is for the national level and what is for the institutional level and also because the needs are so different between institutions. Thanks again Nikolaj and thanks everyone for coming, for three speakers and let's continue our discussions outside with the coffee. Thanks.