 Coming up on DTNS, Apple and scientists are working on how to use your watch and phone to diagnose depression and cognitive decline. Plus, Netflix goes free to watch in Kenya and PayPal launches its super app. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, September 21st, 2021. In Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Layton. Also in Los Angeles, I'm Lamar Wilson. And I'm Roger Chang, the show's producer. We were just talking about how Lamar has deleted all of his passwords. Not really. But he's trying out that new iOS system for two-factor authentication and the Microsoft thing for actually deleting your password. In that case, get that wider conversation on our expanded show, Good Day Internet. Become a member at Patreon.com slash DTNS. That is where you can join our top patrons like Steve, Aya Darula, Dan Colbeck and Jeffrey Zulks. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Oneplus CEO Pete Lau confirmed that the company will not ship a T-Series device in 2021, but that next year's flagship will run its new unified operating system that integrates Oneplus's OxygenOS with Oppo's ColorOS. Oneplus has released an upgraded T-Series device annually in the second half of the year since the Oneplus 3T back in 2016. Alison Sheridan and Barbara Schatz were wondering on the NoCillicast Sunday why we haven't heard anything about the Google Epic case considering the Apple Epic case had just had its decision on September 10th. So I've decided to look to see where it's at. On August 19th is when San Francisco Federal District Judge James Donato, different judges in charge of the Google case, James Donato, ordered Epic's filing be made fully unredacted. And the current state is that as of September 8th, Google has until October 11th to file what are called responsive pleadings to four of Epic's complaints. So it's a lot of court proceedings right now that are kicking the can scheduling down the road. The expectation is that a trial would probably not start until sometime in 2022 at the earliest. And since Epic is appealing the decision in its Apple case, the Google case would probably not start until after the Apple appeal is decided. And if Epic loses on appeal, it might drop or settle the Google case. Slack launched a feature called Clips, letting users share video messages in Slack channels. Clips video includes live captions and searchable transcripts. The company also added an ability to Slack Connect, an ability into Slack Connect to allow paid organizations to partner with companies on free plans. Previously, this kind of cross-organization communication was limited just to paid customers. HP announced a new line of products. The new NV34, an all-in-one desktop PC with a 34-inch 5K display, has a wireless charging pad in the base, a detachable 16-megapixel webcam, starting at $1,999. There's also the Spectre X360, 16-inch 2-in-1 laptop, starting at $1,639. And the HP 11-inch tablet PC, starting at $599. There's also a 14-inch laptop PC, a new Pavilion all-in-one desktop, starting at $799. An I.O. all-in-one desktop, starting at $749. An I.O. 3D2 4K HDR monitor, starting at $499. All these new products will begin shipping from HP in October. Amazon officially announced the new $139.99 Kindle Paperwhite, the $189.99 Paperwhite Signature Edition, and $159.99 Paperwhite Kids Edition. These come with a larger 10.8, but 6.8 in screens, with more LEDs, and also USB-C charging. The Signature Edition gets wireless charging, more storage, and an auto-adjusting light. The Kids Edition gets one year of Amazon Kids Plus, plus a cover, and a two-year replacement guarantee, and all are available for pre-order and ship October 27th. Yeah, that matches up pretty close to what you and Rob were talking about because that leaked Canadian page yesterday, right? Yeah, so if you want to hear some commentary about the Paperwhite particularly, check out DTNS from Monday. All right, let's talk a little more about science. The Wall Street Journal sources say Apple is working on technology to diagnose health conditions using data collected by Apple devices. That's probably not news to you, but we have some details on two of the projects. The scientists involved hope to identify signals in this kind of data that are strongly associated with certain conditions, and then train algorithms to reliably identify them when running on your device. So you could choose to say, like, yeah, monitor to me, and let me know if you think I've got a risk of one of these conditions. Apple has a research partnership with UCLA on stress, anxiety, and depression, codenamed Sea Breeze. It uses the iPhone's video camera, keyboard, and mic, and the Apple Watch's motion tracking, vital signs, and sleep tracking. And then it analyzes data, like facial expressions, speaking, pace, and frequency of walks, sleep patterns, heart and respiration rate, and typing behavior. And the machine learning algorithm looks for patterns that are correlated to the actual conditions. This data is compared to answers on a questionnaire and levels of the stress hormone cortisol to create that correlation. Apple also has another partnership with the pharmaceutical company Biogen on mild cognitive impairment. That one's codenamed Pi, like the Greek letter. It uses data from iPhones and Apple Watches as well. And that data is compared to standard tests of brain health and scans of plaque buildup in the brain. Apple has publicly announced some of the details of both partnerships. But none of the organizations commented on the details in the documents the Wall Street Journal saw. The journal also says Apple has an unannounced partnership with Duke University that is studying how to detect autism using a phone's camera to analyze movements. Apple has successfully done this before. A project with Stanford led to the Apple Watch being able to detect irregular heart rhythm, for instance. The journal sources say the research is in its earliest stages and it may or may not lead to device functions. Wow. So first of all, I think this is this type of thing. It's fascinating. But as with anything like this, my first thing was like, wait, you're watching me on my camera to detect this and this. And then you mentioned pre-show is like, well, this is opt-in. This is something that a person was specifically agreeing to for a certain set of parameters. And so I think knowing that and it's just not a random, we're going to look at everybody. And their care. At first thought, that's what it seems like. And the Doctor of Information, the Wall Street Journal saw, says it happens on device. I mentioned that, but that's worth remembering is like, this is planned to happen not in the cloud. So the device, the data stays with you. Yeah. Right. It's, it's, I kind of had the same thought Lamar where I was like, is my iPhone going to tell me that I seem depressed today? Like, what if I'm not? And I'm going to be like, thanks a lot, iPhone. I'm fine. I just walked weird. But yeah, if you were, if you were interested in being part of a study like this, I certainly would be. Especially if I was really trying to manage some stress. I think a lot of us can say that we're trying to manage things like that these days and some folks more than others. But it is early stages, obviously, but I, I love the idea of a device down the road, you know, an iPhone or, you know, device in general, being able to help you out as much as possible. And this is not about like selling you something. It's, it's truly about health data. And I always joke that I just, I don't know what else we can take data from this point health wise because there's so many things that a smartphone or a smart watch or a, you know, health tracker of some kind or a, you know, waistband or something on your ankle or something you're wearing on your head, your VR headset, like the whole, there's so much health data that can be drawn. But in general, it seems like a good thing for everybody. Yeah. And I think that's the importance of this kind of project is to say, you shouldn't have to wear 15 things if you're at risk for something. Let's figure out a way that you can use the device you might already have, watch, phone. And if you are at risk of cognitive decline and therefore at risk for Alzheimer's, or you're at risk of depression, I have, I have a depression in my family. So that's something I'd be concerned about. And it's not just I feel depressed today. It's, you know, like actual treatable, you know, depressive disorder. Or, or if you're just like, you know what, I want to know when my stress is getting out of hand, maybe I'm not good at monitoring that. I think all of that is useful as long as like we said, you decide when your devices monitor you and you're in control of that data. And it sounds like this is being designed to satisfy both of those concerns. Thanks. So Facebook's Ray Ban Stories glasses attempt to warn others around the wearer that a recording is happening by using LEDs in the corners of the frames. Now, Ireland's Data Protection Commission or DPC said Friday that it asked Facebook to demonstrate the effectiveness of the lights. Italy's privacy agency has raised concerns about the same thing. Now, some reviewers have noted the lights are very small and not very bright. Facebook has not revealed any comprehensive field testing of the system yet. Ray Ban Stories are on sale in Ireland, Italy, the UK, Australia, Canada and the US and never in this house. I wonder how, how does Facebook demonstrate effectiveness of the lights? Because Facebook is going to argue they're very obvious. We're not trying to fool anybody. Somebody's recording, the person that's looking at the person recording is totally going to know. But how is Facebook going to demonstrate that so that Ireland and Italy are satisfied? Yeah, I mean, do some field tests, do some rigorous studies and publish those results publicly. Something Facebook doesn't appear to want to do. In fact, they actively get in the way of academics doing this. But what I would do if I were Facebook, I would contract some academics to be like, do some blind studies where people don't know whether I'm wearing the Ray Ban Stories or not. And then I turn on the recording and how many of them notice, right? You do a rigorous study like that across maybe a few hundred people. And then you figure out like, ah, this brightness, that's when suddenly the majority of people noticed. And so therefore we can demonstrate effectiveness. But yeah, Facebook hasn't done any of that. They've said, we put LEDs in there. LEDs are bright. It's like, well, sure, they can be. It depends on where they're placed, how much. Yeah. And I mean, you're wearing sunglasses. You're probably, you know, in the sun. And so the LEDs aren't going to be as bright. Yeah, good point. You know, there's all sorts of reasons that this whole thing is, yeah, it's clearly going to upset people. And I know that when the Facebook Ray Ban Stories glasses were announced, you know, there were some reviewers who said, you know, I put tape over the LEDs and that is a violation of the Facebook's policy, but you can still do that. I mean, no one's going to stop you. And you can also take clandestine video of somebody without them knowing in lots of ways that don't involve sunglasses. So it's not like this is, you know, we're entering some new market of, you know, privacy violation. But I also wonder, you know, how much of a, I have a backlash, not necessarily backlash, or how much could Ray Ban, the company suffer from something like this? Because if I'm paranoid enough to be like, I don't want someone wearing those glasses around me, am I going to be looking, you know, Ray Ban is a really popular song. Yeah, I wear Ray Bans. Yeah, myself. So yeah, I have a pair. I love them. You know, they're, they're pretty ubiquitous. So I, you know, I wonder if this is going to feel like a mistake on that company's part. Well, and that's why it befuddles me that Facebook isn't immediately saying, here, here, we did the study. We knew this was a concern because this was a concern back with Google Glasses a decade ago. And we're Facebook and we know everyone hates us. So we of course got ahead of it and and figured out how to prove that this will let people know it seems like they're just like, eh, put some LEDs in there. I'm sure people will notice it. It's not going to be good enough. It seems like Facebook was so focused and proud of the design of the glasses being, you know, they look really just like sunglasses. Sure, you got the little LEDs, but you know, very unintrusive. They're, you know, they're stylish. Nobody else has gotten this right. And it turns out that fashion only takes you so far. Yeah, I mean, it's important if you want to make these successful to make them fashionable, but it's also important to make sure that everyone won't ban you from wearing them to Lamar's house, for instance. Exactly. Don't come here. Well, we have a couple of interesting moves by Netflix to talk about today. First upload VR notice that back on April 20th. So some time ago, Netflix listed a VR game called Eden Unearthed on Oculus's App Lab, which is the platform for experimental games. The game works on the Oculus Quest, also the Quest 2. It's also free and seemingly related to the Netflix anime series, Eden. Netflix also launched a free mobile service in Kenya. So you have to sign up for a Netflix account, but then you don't pay anything and you don't get any ads. Anybody older than 18 with an Android phone can get the free plan, which gives access to about 25% of the Netflix catalog in Kenya, including some full series. The idea is to entice people to want to watch the rest of the catalog or watch on a TV or laptop and therefore they would pay. Netflix has previously done free trials and offered a mobile service for about $3 a month in India, but this is the most expansive free service that the company has tried. Yeah, that doesn't mean that they will do this anywhere outside of Kenya. This is a test. It's specific to the mobile audience in Kenya. You've got 20 million potential viewers there. A lot of people use mobile first. They're mobile primarily. Mobile only. Yeah. And so this is a way to kind of spread the word. Even if not every single person that uses this signs up for Netflix, they may get their friends to start watching things or recommend stuff. And those friends may be the ones that sign up. So it's not a guarantee that Netflix does this anywhere outside of Kenya. For instance, in India, they're basically doing the same thing, but for $3 rather than for free. So they figured in India, well, we'll be able to get people to pay. So I'm very curious what Netflix learns from this as they go along. But it also means that Netflix is tailoring its service to the market, which is very smart. I'm not familiar with the Netflix anime series Eden, but the fact that Netflix slipped in a VR game and everybody was kind of going when Netflix was getting into gaming. Well, what's it going to be? Well, it's going to be some sort of a mobile thing. Is it going to be tied into series? And the company did not make a big push into anybody knowing about this. It's available on my Oculus. I don't see it in new and new and noteworthy apps, which I'm always looking for. It's obviously a test, right? And it's really cool that that's their angle to tie it in with something they own already, which is a series. Then I think that's a good way to kind of finagle their way into games versus just like, we've got a Netflix gaming streaming service. It's like, great, get in line behind Amazon and Luna and all these other ones. But it'll be interesting to see what happens with this. I have a quest as well. I haven't tried it yet, but now I want you. You still haven't tried your quest? No, no, no. I haven't tried this game. Oh, okay. Come on, take it out of the closet and play a game. It's downstairs. I have not touched it the other day. I have never been a person who believes that Netflix was going to try to compete with Stadia or Luna. I've always assumed that they were going to do tie in games. So this makes sense. I'm surprised it's VR, though. I have assumed that Netflix would focus entirely on mobile. And maybe this was just a test and they'll never go back to it. And that'll be the last we hear about it. I don't know. But it's interesting to see them consider the quest to be sort of mobile, I guess, because it's not a desktop. I don't know. Real quick, they need to do a game based off the squid game. I'll stop there. You haven't seen it. It's literally amazing, but okay. I wouldn't be shocked if that wasn't. Folks, what do you want to hear us talk about on the show? We have no end of interesting stories all the time, but picking them is always the difficult part. So having you tell us, you know what, we're really into this story helps us. One way to let us know is our subreddit, submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. PayPal has been talking about plans to create a super app that can be used as a digital wallet and for payments and a lot of just financial stuff. The first version of that app is now out. The new PayPal mobile app includes expanded bill pay and the ability to get checks by direct deposit as well as kind of consolidating a lot of their other services into the app that weren't there before. That direct deposit helps PayPal compete with so-called neo banks that offer early access to paychecks. That's probably the key practical element to this that might bring people in. The bill pay feature isn't new, but it's been expanded from a few thousand billers to around 17,000. So you're more likely to find the utility or credit card that you need to pay. It also now supports reminders and automatic payments and bills can be paid from any authorized source in your PayPal account, not just your PayPal balance. There's also a two way messaging feature for payments that lets you ask someone for payments without having to invoice them or just say thanks after you get paid kind of a Venmo, which also owned by PayPal, sort of situation. PayPal is also bringing its Honey product, which gives you deals and rewards on shopping into the mobile apps shopping tab. You can also shop through an in app browser in the PayPal app now and PayPal's version of GoFundMe, the generosity network, is also integrated into the app. PayPal announced a high yield savings account is coming, not in there yet, but it's coming in partnership with Synchrony Bank. That'll launch in the coming months and it'll be called PayPal savings. It's promising 0.4% APR, which is a little lower than Neobanks like Ally offer. Those are 0.5%. Further down the road, PayPal wants to add the ability to buy stocks. They want to add support for paying by QR code in an offline environment and tools for getting discounts when you're in the store, not just shopping online. You know, I surprisingly, after reading this, I think this is a positive thing. I was thinking about all the millions of people around the world, just staying with the US who are unbanked, people who are in urban areas, people who are disadvantaged, whether they go to currency chains to cash their check, those still exist, or they go to Walmart, millions of people go to Walmart every week to cash in their check. There are so many people who just do not have bank accounts and you know, PayPal, although they're not a bank, they're offering services that are pretty close. I mean, direct deposit, you know, just like some of these other ones doing, cash app and some others, they're getting very close to what a bank could be. And for a lot of people, that is enough. That's kind of like all they need. They don't really need or want a traditional bank. And so I think there's a market here that they're also they're cornering, but they're addressing. So we may not need it, but there are a lot of people who would definitely benefit from this, in my opinion. Yeah, for sure. Having it all in one place, super helpful. What has always been confusing to me, and Tom, you mentioned Venmo is owned by PayPal. And when PayPal originally bought Venmo, it was kind of Venmo early days where it was popular, but it wasn't as widely used by FAR as it is now. And the fact that they still keep the two products separate and haven't, I was sure that Venmo would be integrated into PayPal in some way many years ago. And I guess it's just because PayPal realizes that some people, you know, the brand recognition of Venmo is strong enough and Venmo has enough users that they're just going to leave it alone. Venmo actually just got redesigned itself. So I guess they're working on it on some level. But yeah, I wonder if PayPal kind of wants to be the payment system super apt for everyone, why does Venmo exist? Yeah, why leave it out there? I mean, on the one hand, it may be like you said, it was such a strong brand, they didn't want to ruin it. They didn't want to blow people off because that happens a lot. You move Venmo into PayPal and suddenly people are like, yeah, I don't like it anymore. I'm not going to use it. So it may have been smart to leave it that way. I've also gotten a sense from a few things I've read that the way the back ends are constructed and back ends and financial services are incredibly baroque, it would be so costly to try to link it with PayPal that they just feel like it's not worth the effort. Leave Venmo being a very simple thing. That said, you would think like, but you could still bring it into the app, right? You could bring it into the PayPal app. So I wouldn't be shocked if that happened. Option? I think that that may happen sooner than you think because Venmo just lost a, or almost didn't say lost, but a big advantage of that whole social networking and where they made a default where all your transactions are visible. Now, they've changed that since, you know, where it's turned off by default. So, you know, now that that's not a prominent as prominent feature, I wonder, is that the catalyst needed to kind of bring it home? Because every time I paid y'all with Venmo, I always just put a fish emoji in there just to make people. You did. I didn't like it there. You've never paid me by Venmo and I like my fish. I want the fish now though. Hey, yeah, well, you might be a fan of podcasts since you're listening to one right now. So we think you might be more interested than most about one of the highest profile podcasts to take advantage of Apple's paid podcast channel. Marvel and SiriusXM are launching the Marvel podcast unlimited channel for $4 a month. It includes early and exclusive access to scripted and unscripted shows like Marvel's Wolverine, The Long Night, Marvel Method, hosted by Method Man, and this week in Marvel, Marvel's Declassified is a history of Marvel Comics show available only on the channel. And October 4th, subscribers get early access to Marvel's Wastelanders, Hawkeye. First of all, I had no idea Marvel had so many scripted podcasts. I would have assumed they had like news podcasts and discussion podcasts around their shows and movies, but yeah, but man, there's like a whole extended universe in there. And this feels like the kind of thing. Yeah, maybe the majority of us are not going to jump on it, but people who are into these audio stories for dollars a month, you know, probably feels like a pretty good deal. How do you convert people over like the normal people, not like us, could we understand the value of paying for for podcasts? But but paying for podcasts is very new. Like that. I mean, we're talking about multiple years of this is free. This is free. Just kind of like YouTube. Like how do you convert those people? I mean, it's a low price, but can you get four books out of the average person? And if they think what all podcasts are free? What are you talking about? Well, I mean, if you compare something like this to an audiobook, that's something that people are used to paying for. If it, you know, provides value. And especially if it's constantly updated. So you feel like, Oh, you know, it's, you know, it's a serial show. It's a radio show, really. You know, but it's, but it's, yeah, it's not a bunch of people sitting around talking about the latest Marvel movie. It's its own show. That's, I think that's worth $4 a month. I don't necessarily think this, this content is for me specifically, but I know there are a lot of Marvel folks out there who would say so. I will try it myself. I think it's four boxes. Not every format of podcast works that way. That's the thing about podcasts. They're not all the same, right? So our show probably, you know, wouldn't work like this, but somebody, but like you said, I think you're, you know, comparing it to an audiobook, you get a few people hooked on a story and they'll want to get that story as soon as possible. And when they suddenly run up against, ah, the next episode's out, but it's behind the paywall. All right, shoot, I'll put $4 in and get more stories. Then yeah, that kind of makes sense. I think that fits. Well, humans have not visited the moon since 1972. The moon is very lonely, but astronauts in NASA's, our team has programmed plan to reach the moon's South Pole by 2024. But before that happens, NASA says a robot called Viper, which stands for the volatiles investigating polar exploration rover. We'll check the area out first, exploring a spot near the western edge of the 73 kilometer wide noble crater. Viper is set to visit in 2023, so that's a year before the humans. And we'll launch on a SpaceX Falcon heavy rocket and spend around 100 days exploring the terrain, using sensors and even a drill to kind of go do some ice because it's the South Pole. It's really cold there to collect samples of ice and other resources in the area and then create a map from that data. So we know more about the moon than ever. Yeah. And well, the ice is important for putting a base on the moon. That's the Artemis program wants to put people on the moon permanently. Well, send me permanently. And having ice, not just for drinkable water, but for fuel, because you can make hydrogen fuel out of it. That's that's one of the keys and they want to know where the ice is. So that that's why they want to do this. Did you know that Alice was the first one to go to the moon? Is that a honeymooners? Yes. Yes, it is. Yes. Straight to the moon. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I knew I knew you were the eldest among us. Right. I would not. I would not have gotten that joke. You're much too young to get that rough. Much too young. Who's Alice? All right, let's check out the mailbag. Our buddy, Norm from Visalia, wrote that we had talked about Microsoft's password list sign in for their consumer accounts. That was last week. You're very right, Norm. Norm says, I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but at my new in the office job, I noticed some readers by some of the machines. These are impretava one sign authenticators and they use fingerprints for logons. Not a single one is being used, though, because it's still faster to type in a Windows password than use your fingerprint. So this new Microsoft password list sign in isn't faster than typing a password. If it isn't, people aren't going to use it. But here's hoping. Well, first of all, Norm, this tells me that the people in your office are not using very secure passwords because the fingerprint reader should be faster than a long complex, secure passwords with caps and lowercase and special characters and numbers. But Lamar, you're doing the password list sign in. You can report from the field. Do you find it faster? Well, I haven't tried it yet. We'll just put it in after he does this for the first time because he just set it up. Yeah, yeah, you just, that's right. You haven't had time to even even try it. But yeah, like you said, Norm, here's hoping. Here's hoping and thanks for letting us know, Norm, what's going on in the office and hope you like your new job. If anybody has feedback for anything that we talk about on the show, anything we might talk about on a future show, questions, comments, all the good things. And we even got a dog photo in the last 24 hours. So it would be cool if we got more feedback at daily technewshow.com is where to send your email. We also want to thank our brand new bosses, E Michael Rosales and Fort Bacon, who both just started backing us on Patreon. So thanks E Michael and thanks, Fort Bacon. Yeah, y'all are picking up for people who have to leave for circumstances beyond their control. And that keeps us having the same size audience, which means we can have the same size show and everything. So thank you, folks, for doing that. If you're, if you're on the fence, asking Michael Rosales and Fort Bacon feels pretty good to jump into the Patreon. Also thanks to Lamar Wilson, the password managing extravaganza man. I don't know. It's still a working title. Lamar is so good to have you on the show. Let folks know where they can keep up with the rest of your work. The easiest way is lamar.tv. I do fun short videos now. That's kind of my thing, you know, the short format. Today I just dropped one with the new Xbox wired hits that just came out. And I review them under a minute, and it's a great video. And so that's what I do now. So you want to check those out anywhere on Twitter, Instagram, wherever you are, I'm there. Right on. Well, we're live on this show Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. And since we're Monday through Friday, we'll be on the show again tomorrow. And we'll be joined by Scott Johnson. Talk to you then. This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frogpants.com.