 Hello. Welcome to Town Meeting TV. I'm honored to be here today with Abraham Awulich who was recently recognized by the Vermont Council on World Affairs as the person of the year. I was reading Abraham's bio written up and it's pretty remarkable. I'm just gonna give some highlights. You know at age 10 you joined the People's Liberation Army having been displaced from your family in the middle of the conflict. You resettled in Ethiopia, is that correct? That's correct. And then Kakuma, Kenya in a refugee camp and then as part of a resettlement program came to the United States in 2001. In 2008 you joined the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs and then in 2009 co-founded the South Sudanese Development Fund. In 2011 you returned to South Sudan as a consultant to the newly formed government and I think you were living in Vermont at that time, is that correct? Yes I was in Vermont from 2001 to 2011 and went to the University of Vermont and also Community College of Vermont. And then in 2000 and then you became part of the South Sudanese, the newly formed South Sudanese government for about 10 years. Is that right? And in 2021 you left that government under? Well I was not part of the government directly but I was running a policy advisory institution called the Set Institute. That's where I worked for 10 years but primarily advising the government. And I played other roles of course temporary assignment with the government. I briefly worked for a year with the Ministry of Defense there and also was appointed to be a coordinator, deputy coordinator for South Sudan National Dialogue. And briefly also as a board member for one year of the National Revenue Authority of South Sudan. So those were the few government assignments in addition to being a consultant for the government. And not only is your story as a human being as an individual incredibly powerful and unique just your own struggles, your trials, your tribulations, what you have gone through and experienced and but also the country of South Sudan, how it's come into being has been a pretty remarkable story. Yeah, thank you, first of all for having me here. Yeah, the reason it is important to share these personal stories is because we hope that they can inspire other people that you can go through terrible events in your life early or in the middle of your life or even late in your life. But there is always another life beyond that. And so we had terrible childhood being exposed to the war conditions in South Sudan. Then it was Sudan before South Sudan separated in 2011 and having to persevere in the refugee camp life and being separated from families and to be thrown into a whole new world, like coming to the United States and then trying to establish a new life in a totally different community. And being able to get to know people like yourself and others who have been very supportive is a human story that there is the life is a journey marked with terrains that are difficult and some that are exciting. And so I could say, since I got to Burma in 2001, my life took a different turn. And I could say it has been a good life and a lot of support. And until this past year, when there was a bump on the road, when I had to leave the country again for security reasons to come to the United States. So let's talk about that in a minute. But I do remember in 2010, I think that was the year that you and a number of people drove to Boston to vote in the referendum around the forming of South Sudan. Is that correct? That is correct. I was I was actually one of the organizers based in Washington, because the center in Boston was open later. But but I was based in Alexandria, Virginia, where we organize the voting process starting in October 2010. But the voting actually took place on the 9th of January 2011. And that was folks folks from the I guess the diaspora folks who had left Sudan then Sudan, were refugees in countries all around the world who were invited to be part of the vote about whether to separate and form the new South Sudan. And I found that just absolutely inspiring that people would be so committed to take a four hour drive to cast a vote. And you know, here in the United States, so many people take voting for granted. It's something that we get to do two three times a year. And and here you guys were, you know, incredibly inspiring. What did that mean for you? Well, that was actually the first time in our lives that we we had to go in on matters related to our own country. Before that, in 2008, some of us who became American citizens voted during the elections of former Senator McCain and Barack Obama. So that was the first time we participated in a democratic exercise. But 2011 January 9th was the first time in the lives of majority of the people of South Sudan to vote in a democratic exercise that was so significant that it ended up establishing a new country. So it was exactly it was very, very exciting. And there were people who drove for 15 hours, you know, to come to Washington or to get to Boston, because there were only few places. And there were only four countries outside South Sudan that people in diaspora were allowed to vote. And that that is the including the United States and Egypt and Kenya and Sudan, people who are living in Northern Sudan. And so it was it was an extremely important exercise. And so technically, we we can consider ourselves the founders of the Republic of South Sudan. And and and that that is a that is something that happens very rarely in human history. And so we were extremely excited. And we got a lot of support from our American friends to exercise our democratic right. And so we are very proud of that moment. And and now South Sudan is a free country. Only that. We did not deliver what was promised. But that is now an that is now an internal matter. Yeah. Well, that brings us to 2021 and why you have left why you are now no longer in South Sudan. And so can you just talk a little bit about what happened? Your is I don't know if disillusionment is this is the right word, but tell us a little bit about what happened? Well, yeah, the last time I made a briefing to people of Proman, I essentially spoke about why I left South Sudan. And in summary, what I can say is that the level of insidiousness and excitement that we had in 2011 was based on the idea that we could establish a country that was a sharp contrast from from the the country that we left, which is the Sudan. Which was marked by marginalization of so many people. And and and the state was captured by a very few and using ethnic and religious divisions to keep the country apart and to and to perpetuate violence against people. And it was marked by so many coups and authoritarian regimes coming in and going. And so for nearly 60 years of its independence, Sudan was never a peaceful country. And so our hope was that the establishment of South Sudan marked a new beginning and a transition to a democratic society. At least that is what we were promised. And for those of us who had the opportunity to live in the United States and other democratic countries, like Australia, Canada, United Kingdom and European countries, we we we we exactly had in mind what democracy, the democratic society that we talk about would be. And that is a society where the government exists to serve its people and exist to unite its people. There is no reason to have a country. And you have everybody on each other's throat, especially citizens killing each other and hating each other. That actually defeats the idea of a nation. Nation is the idea of pulling people of desperate backgrounds together so that they can shape the future, a collective future together in which they can all prosper. And in which they can take care of each other and support each other. What we end up getting in South Sudan, however, is it's totally opposite of that. The state was quickly captured by a few elites, taking the natural riches that God has given to the people of South Sudan as their own personal property, and depriving ordinary citizens of any property, any development. Part of the reason in people of South Sudan took up arms, which was a very costly exercise was to actually regain their freedom and advance the lives of their people so that they can develop socially, politically and economically. And we didn't get that. So the country became extremely corrupt, extremely violent, and extremely bureaucratic. One man makes decisions for everybody. The Constitution does not bear any value in the country. It's totally neglected. And people are operating outside the law that we voted for. And so my job and the job of so many colleagues of mine, many of them who were here in the US and went back, it was our hope that maybe these are challenges of transition and that will support and input from us that we could urge the leaders to reform. But a decade later, which was exactly on the 9th of July, 2021, we did a review of what we have done over the course of a decade and where South Sudan has gone. And we discovered that it was a far cry from what we really wanted to do. We were being silenced. As time goes, politically, space shrunk and civic spaces shrunk. And there was no hope. South Sudan is growing warlords at a faster rate than we are creating entrepreneurs. And there is little to no political debate happening in South Sudan. Our old president does not even speak to people. He does not address people even when there are crises. And we have not had an election for a whole decade since we declared our independence. And so we took the stock of that and we said, if you go for a whole 10 years without an election, and there are no debates happening and politically, space is shrinking. How do you call that? We have become a dictatorship. Is this what we fought for? Is this what we had hoped to establish? And we said now, this is not it. And we actually said we are becoming complacent actually in this process. We are actually aiding in the establishment of a dictatorship because we feel that we are helping to get our country so that it becomes a democratic society, so that it becomes a fair society to all of us. But we are seeing that there is some preferential treatment. Some ethnic communities are treated better than others. Some individuals are treated better than others. And there is no formula for that. It is the leadership that pick and choose with the winner in South Sudan. And so it may be important, Abraham, for folks, many Vermonters who are not from Sudan or South Sudan or Africa may not realize that the diversity is actually incredibly rich in South Sudan, a number of different ethnic groups, languages that are spoken. I think that's something that I found actually incredibly amazing was watching the diaspora come together across those different languages and ethnic groups in Vermont and in places where people were gathering outside of South Sudan. So maybe you could just talk a little bit about that. Right. South Sudan is a diverse country in terms of its languages and ethnic communities. And there are estimates, you know, the number that you will find being thrown around is that there are 64 ethnic communities in South Sudan. It could be more or less depending on what you are using as a defining characteristic of an ethnic group. So for example, if you are using a linguistic identification, you could say that we have less than 64 ethnic communities. If you are using self-identification of communities as distinct, you could have up to four to 500 groups. And so that country is diverse and that diversity in our view is the richness of South Sudan is the value that we can earn from those groups. But we have to give them a reason to coexist and to live together. And that is the responsibility of political leadership to provide that vision, to provide that unity. And we get inspiration from the United States, from their declaration of independence all the way to the Constitution. It is the unity of their people that they consider so important. And the first word you find in the United States is the word unity. People are United States and people. And it has served the world so well. It created an imaginable, wonderful ideas that have come to shape the world now. And we could simply, we don't really have to work hard to invent a new thing. We could simply take advantage of that. And that is exactly where we have failed. And so in July last year, a number of South Sudanese intellectuals and people who are pro-democracy, we consider ourselves pro-democracy. We issued a statement listing the areas in which South Sudan has failed and where we have diverged from the vision that was set during the declaration of our independence. And that it was no longer possible to hope that South Sudan will one day be a democratic country when you can go for 10 years without conducting an election. This is dictatorship are never announced that we are going to establish a dictatorship. They are established using democratic aspirations. And over time, individuals capture the state and they begin to consolidate their power and begin to suppress voices that are contradicting their position of power. And that is how you end up with a dictatorship. And so in our case, that is exactly what happened. We were aspiring for a democratic country. We had trusted our leaders that they meant what they say and we supported them. And so we in that statement, we ended our support. We said we cannot longer stand for this. We demand a democratic transition now. And that is how we got in trouble. And then so the president issued orders for our arrest. Or if we cannot be arrested, we could be killed. And so we went into hiding immediately. Although one of our colleagues will have good will was not immediately. And he's now he has now been in jail today for 428 days. He has not been charged in any court of law. And he has not been taken to court to answer any questions just being detained by the orders of the president. And so we demand his media release. And if the government believes that expressing one's views is a crime, that is not what our constituents say. Let them take that to the court and prove why that is wrong. And that is what we have been campaigning also that our colleagues should release is being detained unnecessarily arbitrarily by the will of the president. And that is precisely part of the reason we cannot longer support that system. Thank you very much. Thank you. I mean, when we're talking about Sudan, South Sudan, when we're talking about South Sudan, your nearest border is Ethiopia, where there's a conflict happening. The UN World Food Bank just reported that food insecurity has doubled nationwide in the last two years. I mean, I mean, worldwide in the last two years. And if you look at the the world map, in Sub-Saharan Africa, there's 100% food insecurity. What are the impacts of these kinds of conflicts on the ability to establish peace and democracy in South Sudan? Well, I can tell you that the world has shrunk. And we have become interdependent. So the war in Ukraine, the war in Ukraine in Eastern Europe is affecting our people directly, because food supplies and other things that we get from there have been reduced significantly, which has jacked up prices in the in the local market, putting it out of many people's reach. Yeah, so Tigrayan conflict is first of all, a tragic event. Ethiopia is the largest neighbor we have in the region with over 100 million people. And it is a growing economy. And the Ethiopian people have suffered from droughts and famine for so long. And they were on their way. After a leadership transition, we had hoped that Ethiopia was on the way to stabilizing and becoming democratic country and a growing economy, which would be important for us. But since the conflict erupted, it has disrupted the markets. And it has also created a lot of uncertainty within the region, even the investors in neighboring countries are not so sure of the spillover effect of those of that conflict. So it has disrupted supply routes. The Tigrayan, I mean, the Rittrian port is an important regional port for bringing in resources into Ethiopia and then into eastern South Sudan and South and Sudan. And it has also created its own dynamic between Ethiopia, Rittrian Sudan, there is an element of tension there. So it has negatively affected our people. And you have climatic conditions. South Sudan is highly flooded right now. I was just informed today that one of the areas in my own county where I come from in Lake Steady is under water right now. The houses have been completely wiped out and crops. This is we are approaching the harvest season now in October. And some of the crops are destroyed. In addition to conflict displacement. So if you were to check the latest reports on poverty in South Sudan, when South Sudan became independent, the poverty level was around 50 50. And that means 50% of the population was barely above the poverty level. And based on the international definition of $2 a day as the cutting line. Now, the poverty level is over 90%. Some calculations actually put it at 97% of the population in South Sudan is in desperate public situation. And so, so the conflict in Ukraine, the one in Tigray, and also climatic conditions and internal conflict in South Sudan, which is ongoing right now, in upper Nile region, have impoverished a lot of people. And that is part of our concern is to end human causes of the suffering and so that we can deal only with the climatic condition. And that all of those, all of that destabilization makes the work that you're trying to do as part of the People's Coalition for Civil Action more difficult. What is next for your organization, the pro-democracy movement? What is next for your work in South Sudan? Well, we will continue to believe that all crisis in any country can be resolved peacefully. And that the only way you can resolve any conflict peacefully is to have dialogue. And so what we have been advocating, and we have done this with a number of groups now in the country, is to is to bring the people of South Sudan into what we call the Round Table Conference, a conference in which different stakeholders in the Sudanese society can sit around the table and hammer out a constitutional agreement to fix based on the 10 years history that we have had now, to fix the fundamental problem that we observed and to and to try to make a democratic transition. In doing that, we have reached out to various political parties and armed groups and civil society organizations and faith organizations. And we have invited them to join a forum that we call the National Consensus Forum. We have lost any consensus on fundamental issues that make a nation. And so our hope is that we want to regenerate that consensus which we had in 2011. And then move now to a different stage in what we call the National Round Table Conference to formalize those that consensus and turning it into a constitution. And now using that constitution to launch a second republic, they will say that we failed to establish the first republic, which is what we have now. And we can we can reestablish the republic on on new basis on a new social contract with the people. And having a democratic transition, that means having an election for the first time. Of course, with a lot of support from the region and the international community. That is where we stand now. And we think that those who have failed the people of South Sudan, and who have subverted the democratic aspiration of the people of South Sudan, should be disqualified from contesting in any election. So that is basically that is our position right now. Do you have the support of the international community? What what more support is needed? Well, first of all, in a in a in an authoritarian state, it is very difficult to to support democratic groups, because everyone in South Sudan who has access to any money, any form of money, is a supporter of government. If you are not a supporter of government, of course, you have no money. And so, so international support in building democratic movements and for a democracy group support to them is critical. Number two is a political decision by the Troika countries. The Troika countries are three countries that had helped South Sudan to become independent. That is the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Kingdom of Norway. And we have talked to them, their their invoice. And what we are asking them is that the choice is clear now. You either stand with with the authoritarian regime, which has victimized its own people, or you support pro-democracy organizations and support also the call for the round table and and the call for a new constitutional agreement in the country. And we have, we have found positive response to that. Obviously, they would love to see a democratic transition in South Sudan. They have their own challenges. For example, here in the United States, President Biden, as he has his hands full with the situation in Ukraine, and domestic situation, you know, trying to keep the people of the United States united and focus on important issues. And so he has not really paid a lot of attention to to events happening in Africa, and perhaps even in other parts of the world. And so part of my job being here in the United States is to get President Biden's attention. And we have done that successfully through the Congress. And our own Senator from Vermont, Senator Lee has been very supportive, has issued several statements in support of pro-democracy, and has also called upon the United States to support these pro-democratic movements. The same thing to Congressman Peter Welch. He gave me audience in his office in Washington, and offering support, moral and political support to the work that I'm doing. And so have other people, other congressmen and senators. And so what we need, the support that is more important is the support of the American people. In 2001, when we came and we shared our story with the American people, they responded overwhelmingly. And they gave pressure to President George W. Bush to initiate the peace process in Sudan by appointing Senator John Danforth to go and make sure that there is peace in Sudan. And there was peace. And so South Sudan and the peace that we have experienced came as a result of the efforts of the United States. And those efforts came through the the American people. So we are calling also upon the American people to once again call on their representatives and in the States and in the national government to pay attention to South Sudan and to support the few voices such as mine, people who are doing this work, I'm safe now, but I have colleagues who remain in South Sudan and they are, they speak with an extreme danger of being persecuted for their views. So we need to regenerate that support, both political moral and even financial support. So that is what that is the more we need. So the importance, you know, I just want to bring it back, you know, you were honored again by the Vermont Council on World Affairs as the person of the year. And this, you know, when you talk about the outreach and the support that's needed, what does this award mean for Vermonters and for the South Sudanese and to you? Well, it could not have come at the right time. And also in the right place. I was extremely honored to be recognized by the the Vermont Council on World Affairs. And of course, they cited the fact that this award is given to someone who embodies the values of promoting understanding international understanding and peace between the United States and the rest of the world. And so what I what I believe the significance of this award is that it is an indication that the people of Vermont value what we stand for. And the aspiration of the people of South Sudan. And they feel that they have they had created this process with the inspiration that I was given, being living in the city of Burlington, going to the University of Vermont and the community college, the values that I learned from the community, the open mindedness, the desire to promote social justice, and the desire to be inclusive, and to be accommodating to people of strange cultures, is a contribution that came directly from Vermont. And so, so they are proud of the work that I am doing and to stand up for what is right and for democracy. And I think they want to put a spotlight on that. And then that is exactly what they have done. And, and so I'm very proud and I was so happy to be back on Church Street, and to meet friends that I have known for so many years, and to just drive around and enjoy the neighborhood, new things that have come up in Vermont. And so I will continue, I will use this recognition as a springboard to, to continue to raise awareness among the American people, and raise awareness about the desires and expression of the people of South Sudan, including the Sudanese community in Vermont, which I co-founded in 2001. And, and even the Association of Africans living in Vermont, which I'm also a founding board member. They have a special both in Vermont, they want to have a good life, they want to be recognized and be, be integrated into the community. But they also want good things back home. They still have relatives there. And they, and they aspire to go home one day and live as free citizens. And, and have two homes that they can go to. And so that is their aspiration, to the aspiration of those people in Vermont, and, and elsewhere in the United States to see South Sudan as a successful democratic country. And so it means a lot to me and I'm, I'm grateful for that recognition. Abraham Awilich, thank you so much for spending time with us today, and sharing your story and the story of the work of the People's Coalition for Civil Action, the pro-democracy civil rights movement, trying to make a free and democratic South Sudan. You're an inspiring person and I'm, I'm glad to call you a fellow Vermonter and World Citizen Traveller. So thank you very much. Thank you very much, Megan. And I'm so delighted that you could give me this space. And, and I thank the, is it a citizen TV now? I forgot the. Town Meeting TV. Yeah. Yeah. Then I really appreciate the Town Meeting TV for always giving me the space to share with Vermonter's the effort that I'm working on, including my, my charity initiatives through the Sudan Development Foundation. We continue to, I continue to support those initiatives. We still, we are still running medical clinics. We are supporting one primary school. And so we continue to ask people to support Sudan, the Sudan Development Foundation, and, and to continue to making donations so that we can continue to inspire hope in those communities where we operate. So thank you very much. And I look forward to coming back to Burlington very soon after I have, if, if I have made a breakthrough through my advocacy here in Washington, the destination is Burlington. I'm, I'm coming back to Burlington and get back into the community. So thank you very much. All right. Thank you. And thank you for watching. Stay tuned for more Town Meeting Television Community Programming.